This thread needs some serious chill. Enough with the personal attacks.
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The showrunners don't respect the fandom, they don't respect it, because they know no matter what they turn out, a large portion will excuse it no matter how poorly thought out, how low the quality, how obviously generic it is, because you, me, even the guys who rush to the gates to defend it-we're all disposable to CBS-just like Lucas saw Warsies when he made the prequels.
You should never make the mistake of thinking the people making the shows you love, give a **** about that love beyond how they can manipulate or exploit it to make money.
I'm not sure I agree with your position, Pat.
Discovery is definitely not to my taste, but it was clearly made by people with passion. Each Klingon house has it's own costume, each Klingon weapon is painstakingly covered in spikey bits. They even made Klingon skulls to show off at Comic con. CBS ordered episodes from Alex Kurtzman's production studio, and Kurtzman's crew delivered a product they worked hard on.
The writers and showrunners clearly like certain aspects of Star Trek, dislike other aspects and also want to "leave their mark" on the series. So the end result is Star Trek: Discovery.
As for the "evil CBS", TRIBBLE is a bargaining chip. Much like all the other content on All Access. When other networks pay CBS for the rights to show their content, CBS gets around 20 cents per viewer. Now CBS can say "Actually, are getting 5 dollars per viewer, so you are going to have to pony up a little more if you want access to these shows". It's really brilliant because All Access itself does not have to be profitable. If it breaks even, CBS is still ahead at the negotiating table.
I don't think I'd go for a Crossfield Class, but a Walker Class (Shenzhou) looked good to me, as did the Nimitz Class (Europa) in what little we saw of it.
Proof? Quotes? Screenshots? Evidence in general? If the main basis for this certainty is the work of data miners, that'd be nice to know. Last I saw was a trailer with an intentionally tantalizing hint at the end, and nothing else here on forums.
Once again, another long winded rant of cow manure, that really has nothing to do with what was stated, and totally misses the point, just to rant about how CBS is the evil monster, and a poor attempt to play the professional victim card.
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I'm not.
"Evil" implies a plan and active Malice, Som. I"m not saying they're evil, I'm saying that they don't give a flying ****, what happens in the fan community isn't important at CBS, and even if it were, it's not as important as what they get from their professional focus-groups and well-paid marketing executives, and the proof of that, is that what they're doing works for it's primary purpose: making bank.
The only real problem with the statement is the suggestion that there is a single, cohesive group of fans that CBS could alienate.
There just isn't. Hence regardless of whether CBS is doing it all for the money or not (they are, however), it is actually not possible to please the entire fandom. There are many people that like Star Trek, and people like it for different reasons, prefer different aspects of it.. You see that every time when people say they prefer Kirk over Picard, they liked DS9 better than VOY, or VOY better than DS9, or say the ENT finale stinks or the last ENT season was the best or whatever. Every new show, every new episode, will have elements that don't appeal to every fan, and can lose some.
And it's not like fans themselves don't change. When DS9 came out, I didn't like it very much. It took a few years and reading a Making Of book to make me really appreciate what they are doing. When TNG came around, I was fascinated and entertained, but today, I look at some of the episodes and think how rough and weak it often is.
The only think CBS can really hope for is to draw people in with the franchise name and hope the people that work on the new show have a decent vision for it and know how to pull it off well.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Can we please not turn this into (yet another) "I hate Discovery" thread?
well, let's focus then. Discovery was announced last year about this time. It debuted with the Fall Teevee season, and Cryptic stated they were in discussions with licensing sometime between when it rolled out, and when it actually premiered. We've got the first Star Trek:Discovery uniforms already released as a promotional premium a few months ago.
But...
they weren't ready to release ships yet. Two reasons come to mind immediately for why:
a. CBS All-Access didn't want spoilers.
b. The artists are still trying to get details right on the release to avoid scaling/appearance issues that trigger people every time they do a release.
c. Someone is dragging feet for other business reasons.
I don't think (c) applies. That leaves (a) and (b).
care and attention to detail? sure. Look at the Kelvin Timeline Konnie or the TOS Connie releases.
Spoilers? that's also entirely possible. It's less likely, but it's still entirely possible.
so I'll reiterate my prediction: within 3 months for a standalone release, or up to a year more if it's a full on expansion/season (in which case, it's bumping whatever WAS on the release schedule to slot in while there's still some hype-train.)
I think it might have been nice from a marketing point of view to have some Discovery content in the game on release, but I suspect the overriding aspect were two things Scheduling
Cryptic is running its own schedule about things they want to add to Star Trek Online. Ships, missions, whatever type of content or feature is coming. They necessarily have these planned out over many months probably (the further out, the rougher the details of the plan would be typical, but still, a decent enough roadmap to see when things can possibly happen and where to add or insert new stuff.)
The same applies on the CBS/production side. They have a schedule on when to film, when to edit and what not.
If Cryptic wants to add a ship from Discovery into the game, someone responsible on the CBS/production company side that is handling the CGI models would need to meet and talk with someone at Cryptic. Scheduling such a meeting when both sides are busy in the day-to-day business is rather hard. I really don't know who will have a tighter plan, the TV or the Game side, but they will be tight, and finding a spot where both sides have time to discuss things will be hard. Moving the discussion to something like e-mail doesn't really improve things, it just means they spread out more and there will be more back & forth as people try to clear up the usual communication errors and details.
Story Development
You called it spoilers, but bascially - until the last episode has been filmed and edited, the story can change. Adding any story element from Discovery before that into Star Trek Online risks STO breaking canon established by DIS. SO they have to wait until things settle. (And even then they need to be a bit conservative - continuing story lines that DIS would later pick up entirely different could be awkward, as well.)
If Cryptic would decide to add the Crossfield class to the game and give it a "Spore Drive Console", that might be weird if DIS later explains that the spore drive is torturing tardigrades and killing any human navigator and by the way, in their attempt to copy the technology, the Klingons accidentally destroyed the entire mycelium network and also infected themselves with human DNA or whatever. It would be nice beforehand if they call the console "Spore Drive Console" or "Virtual Spore Drive Console".
Of course, also related to his directly is - how does CBS feel about telling people outside the core company about the story of DIS? THe more people know about it, the more likely stuff will leak.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
> @ltminns said: > Propably stuff in a Discovery Lockbox around the time of the Anniversary. I would not hold my breath for any Discovery stuff being the Anniversary ship. Too much monitization would be lost.
I feel odd that I seem to be in a minority that actually likes the ship, characters and plot in Discovery. But I doubt I'd be seen as a marker for taste given that I have a Scryer (Which is very discovery like), I like the new Klingons and I liked the star wars prequels. And I liked enterprise.
But back on topic from what I saw on reddit its lockbox. I wont name the ships to avoid bannation. I have also seen the gamma transwarp which was added quite a few months ago.
I feel odd that I seem to be in a minority that actually likes the ship, characters and plot in Discovery. But I doubt I'd be seen as a marker for taste given that I have a Scryer (Which is very discovery like), I like the new Klingons and I liked the star wars prequels. And I liked enterprise.
But back on topic from what I saw on reddit its lockbox. I wont name the ships to avoid bannation. I have also seen the gamma transwarp which was added quite a few months ago.
don't feel bad-you are the audience-that is, the audience they're looking for, and you're clearly NOT in the minority (and nobody should SERIOUSLY bag on you for having your tastes. Personal attacks are NOT cool.)
I think the Reddit leaks may have been test-balloons when they weren't sure it (Discovery) would be financially successful. (that may have actually delayed release right there-if CBS decided it's successful enough to push into the mainstream here, Cryptic would have to do some systematic rework to satisfy the IP holder's demands.)
either way, it's not ready for release just yet, but the real conversation isn't 'whether' but 'when and how'.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
I don't have anything on the other hand against anyone who doesn't like Discovery, it is a big departure from other Trek IPs (Although in Hindsight the pulse phases make a lot of sense) and I do hope that Discovery can be something they will like in time. But if they don't then that doesn't make them any less of a Star Trek fan because of it.
The reddit leaks were 9 days ago so after Discovery broke for Xmas. I doubt we will get much content for a while around it as it seems the devs are going all out for the possible dominion expansion (and the time span may be due to a radically different BO system for dominion captains (Because from what we know at the moment if dominion are to be playable unless the Player is a changeling (which is unlikely) there will be 2 races on the dominion ship bridge Vorta and Jem'hadar)
I think discovery content could be nice if done correctly (Holodeck simulations of events depicted would be cool)
That is just hilariously wrong Pat, especially the bit about science as Discovery so far is whole orders of magnitude more accurate with the science than any previous Trek has ever been.
Well, depending upon one's point of view...
I suspect, that what patrickngo is referring to, is the technobabble, which, while not RealWorldHardScience, was science within the contect of that science fiction realm...
My thoughts on Discovery as a series are no secret, and I see no need to repeat them. But I will say that (as someone with a Michael Burnham boff) I'm keen to see what Discovery content gets brought into the game.
Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive I'm sure there would be some glitches on release of someone's Ushaan or Konnie spinning off with that effect, but in theory, I would have thought it would be easy enough to integrate the concept in such a manner, and with an 'attainability' which would be consistent to a higher-ranking officer
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> azrael605 wrote: »
>
> That is just hilariously wrong Pat, especially the bit about science as Discovery so far is whole orders of magnitude more accurate with the science than any previous Trek has ever been.
>
>
>
> Well, depending upon one's point of view...
>
> I suspect, that what patrickngo is referring to, is the technobabble, which, while not RealWorldHardScience, was science within the contect of that science fiction realm...
>
> My thoughts on Discovery as a series are no secret, and I see no need to repeat them. But I will say that (as someone with a Michael Burnham boff) I'm keen to see what Discovery content gets brought into the game.
>
> Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive I'm sure there would be some glitches on release of someone's Ushaan or Konnie spinning off with that effect, but in theory, I would have thought it would be easy enough to integrate the concept in such a manner, and with an 'attainability' which would be consistent to a higher-ranking officer
Its not a matter of viewpoint in any way shape or form. Its flat out fact. In TOS Opperation Annihilate they bombard a planet with massive amounts of UV to kill the pancake parasites because quote "it's harmless to humans", which is laughably wrong and was known to be wrong at the time the episode was written.
TWOK had ships hiding in nebulas which impossibly looked like clouds at close range (which they don't) and interfering with tech much more advanced than ours which would be unaffected in any way. This one is especially egregious as it became a standard tactic in Trek thus passing this ludicrous idiocy on to the entire franchise.
TNG made frequent use of theories debunked decades before the episodes such as "Memory RNA".
I can keep going all day long
Technobabble does not and will never equal science. So far the only complaint from real world scientists about Discovery has been a very small error on the Tardigrade, other real world science referenced in the show has been praised for its accuracy.
I believe the phrase is 'truthful hyperbole' Yes, UV is damaging, in sufficient concentration. In sufficient concentration, so is water (Leah Betts, for example...) in the context of the episode, the UV burst was considered an acceptable risk (and given that McCoy could cure a patient of the need for dialysis, within minutes, with one pill, I doubt any of the results of that UV burst would have been an issue for Federation Medicine ) I agree, technobabble does not equal science (certainly not Real World Science) but as fictional science, being presented within a work of fiction, I guess the criteria at discussion there, is how accurate does one need one's science to be in works of fiction, to be accepted as presented? (I agree, not RealWorld accurate) All I'm saying, is that I believe what patrickngo was refering to, is the shift from the 'Hollywood Science' of previous Trek, to the more Based-in-reality science which Discovery seems to have gone with
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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Discovery is definitely not to my taste, but it was clearly made by people with passion. Each Klingon house has it's own costume, each Klingon weapon is painstakingly covered in spikey bits. They even made Klingon skulls to show off at Comic con. CBS ordered episodes from Alex Kurtzman's production studio, and Kurtzman's crew delivered a product they worked hard on.
The writers and showrunners clearly like certain aspects of Star Trek, dislike other aspects and also want to "leave their mark" on the series. So the end result is Star Trek: Discovery.
As for the "evil CBS", TRIBBLE is a bargaining chip. Much like all the other content on All Access. When other networks pay CBS for the rights to show their content, CBS gets around 20 cents per viewer. Now CBS can say "Actually, are getting 5 dollars per viewer, so you are going to have to pony up a little more if you want access to these shows". It's really brilliant because All Access itself does not have to be profitable. If it breaks even, CBS is still ahead at the negotiating table.
However, I am not kidding myself and it will most likely be in the scam boxes, so I can live without it..
Proof? Quotes? Screenshots? Evidence in general? If the main basis for this certainty is the work of data miners, that'd be nice to know. Last I saw was a trailer with an intentionally tantalizing hint at the end, and nothing else here on forums.
There just isn't. Hence regardless of whether CBS is doing it all for the money or not (they are, however), it is actually not possible to please the entire fandom. There are many people that like Star Trek, and people like it for different reasons, prefer different aspects of it.. You see that every time when people say they prefer Kirk over Picard, they liked DS9 better than VOY, or VOY better than DS9, or say the ENT finale stinks or the last ENT season was the best or whatever. Every new show, every new episode, will have elements that don't appeal to every fan, and can lose some.
And it's not like fans themselves don't change. When DS9 came out, I didn't like it very much. It took a few years and reading a Making Of book to make me really appreciate what they are doing. When TNG came around, I was fascinated and entertained, but today, I look at some of the episodes and think how rough and weak it often is.
The only think CBS can really hope for is to draw people in with the franchise name and hope the people that work on the new show have a decent vision for it and know how to pull it off well.
Scheduling
Cryptic is running its own schedule about things they want to add to Star Trek Online. Ships, missions, whatever type of content or feature is coming. They necessarily have these planned out over many months probably (the further out, the rougher the details of the plan would be typical, but still, a decent enough roadmap to see when things can possibly happen and where to add or insert new stuff.)
The same applies on the CBS/production side. They have a schedule on when to film, when to edit and what not.
If Cryptic wants to add a ship from Discovery into the game, someone responsible on the CBS/production company side that is handling the CGI models would need to meet and talk with someone at Cryptic. Scheduling such a meeting when both sides are busy in the day-to-day business is rather hard. I really don't know who will have a tighter plan, the TV or the Game side, but they will be tight, and finding a spot where both sides have time to discuss things will be hard. Moving the discussion to something like e-mail doesn't really improve things, it just means they spread out more and there will be more back & forth as people try to clear up the usual communication errors and details.
Story Development
You called it spoilers, but bascially - until the last episode has been filmed and edited, the story can change. Adding any story element from Discovery before that into Star Trek Online risks STO breaking canon established by DIS. SO they have to wait until things settle. (And even then they need to be a bit conservative - continuing story lines that DIS would later pick up entirely different could be awkward, as well.)
If Cryptic would decide to add the Crossfield class to the game and give it a "Spore Drive Console", that might be weird if DIS later explains that the spore drive is torturing tardigrades and killing any human navigator and by the way, in their attempt to copy the technology, the Klingons accidentally destroyed the entire mycelium network and also infected themselves with human DNA or whatever. It would be nice beforehand if they call the console "Spore Drive Console" or "Virtual Spore Drive Console".
Of course, also related to his directly is - how does CBS feel about telling people outside the core company about the story of DIS? THe more people know about it, the more likely stuff will leak.
> Propably stuff in a Discovery Lockbox around the time of the Anniversary. I would not hold my breath for any Discovery stuff being the Anniversary ship. Too much monitization would be lost.
yep
But back on topic from what I saw on reddit its lockbox. I wont name the ships to avoid bannation. I have also seen the gamma transwarp which was added quite a few months ago.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
I don't have anything on the other hand against anyone who doesn't like Discovery, it is a big departure from other Trek IPs (Although in Hindsight the pulse phases make a lot of sense) and I do hope that Discovery can be something they will like in time. But if they don't then that doesn't make them any less of a Star Trek fan because of it.
The reddit leaks were 9 days ago so after Discovery broke for Xmas. I doubt we will get much content for a while around it as it seems the devs are going all out for the possible dominion expansion (and the time span may be due to a radically different BO system for dominion captains (Because from what we know at the moment if dominion are to be playable unless the Player is a changeling (which is unlikely) there will be 2 races on the dominion ship bridge Vorta and Jem'hadar)
I think discovery content could be nice if done correctly (Holodeck simulations of events depicted would be cool)
I suspect, that what patrickngo is referring to, is the technobabble, which, while not RealWorldHardScience, was science within the contect of that science fiction realm...
My thoughts on Discovery as a series are no secret, and I see no need to repeat them. But I will say that (as someone with a Michael Burnham boff) I'm keen to see what Discovery content gets brought into the game.
Something I would like to see, is the content staggered across the various levels. For example, at present, a New Player can fly an NX, or a TOS Constitution right off the bat (if they're willing to pay) And any Fed character, AoY or 25th C, gets to fly the movie Constitution when they hit Lt.Commander (and that cruiser, really is one of my favorite in-game ships) So, what I'd like to see, is an equal spread of Discovery ships, maybe with the Walker Class as a Captain rank option, some of the other classes, such as the Nimitz Class below, and the Crossfield Class (Which I absolutely detest (although I did like the fan-rendered Crossfield on an episode of Trekyards, and thought that was a really nice, and visually-fitting ship) being a Rear Admiral ship. Why at Rear Admiral? Well, instead of the on-board transwarp, with a different animation, working in the exact same way as with the transwarp to Fleet Starbase/Sol System/ETC, well, that can then be the Spore Drive
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Either way I want a flying IDIC symbol
My character Tsin'xing
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth