"Undesirable subsection of the community" and "noisy players who whine" are the kind of phrases that make one sound inconsiderate and intolerant of other's views. Just because some people like to live casually, doesn't mean they have to be abused and hated. That's just hateful elitism.
Well I see Abbott and Costello brought in a Fleet Acolyte to place their first fawning post.
Wow, maybe they should run a contest during the Winter Event to determine exactly which of the 'most shameful' things done by the Developers IS the 'most shameful'.
Well one good thing about the 'Perma-death' idea is that while they are expending energy here on a non-starter, we are not getting Green Orion, R&D Promotion Pack is logical and the greatest thing since sliced bread, or Cardassians are the most noble blah, blah, Threads. Something at least.
Tom, Bert, and Bill Huggins are alive and well here.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Just bring back fail conditions for advanced again and revert all the changes made after DR to the values we got directly with DR for advanced because they were calculated propperly (just to stop instant kills of the poor entity as example!)
So, you're really not wanting to improve the game for everyone, you're wanting he game to change to what YOU want it to be. There is not a thing stopping you from getting a group of friends/like minded people and doing what you want, don't respawn, don't enter ques when you're injured, if its to cheap to repair, then voluntarially get rid of X amount of EC you deem fair.
You don't seem content to let people play how they want......you seem to want them to play how YOU (and a very small minority it seems) wants. Something you do not seem to comprehend, ALL MMO's are going this route because ya know....fun.
Like said and you have conveniently ignored several times, what gives you the right to determine who is desirable and who is not, and what gives you the right to make that call.
I don't think I would continue to play a game that had so many "undeliverables" in it.
Nothing shameful about the devs, who are doing their best given the insane limitations placed on the by a loud subset of players.
Well no, there is a bit of shame on the dev's here. They caved in and gave the player what they wanted, more power creep at a faster pace and easier content. Now they're realizing that was a mistake. Which is evident with the last bits of work toward balancing the game back out.
But the dev's learned a hard lesson here, or at least we can hope they did. One of the primary premises of Star Trek is overcoming adversity. They're having to do that with the player base and the power creep. Let's hope we start to see content that reflects this.
The players on the other hand. Well... the ones that wanted the power creep, the more casual mode of play that we have. They got what they wanted. Though, it has hurt the game. The thing here, is the part of the player base that wanted this doesn't care if it hurts the game, as long as they get what they want. The fact that they have gotten what they wanted, is also the main reason players have left the game.
So anyone saying you shouldn't force what you want on others, really needs to take a step back here. Those of us that actually care about the game, but want more challenging content and game play, have been forced to live under the wants of the power creep players for years now.
Now, everyone is also focusing on one suggestion here, the perma-death one. I have played a game with this system. It does make a game challenging and engaging. You have to pay attention to what you are doing at all times. Though, STO isn't setup for the best setup of this. It requires large maps. This way you can offer the chance for the players to return to their corpse and recoup everything. Plus, PvE for ground missions it wouldn't be a worry. "I'm dead. But hey my boff can revive me." So, while it would work for STO. It's not the best option to go with. It would mainly just be figuring out how to ensure the player could recoup their losses.
The main problem we're facing in STO, is the players do entirely to much damage. If it were up to me, my first step here, would be to cut player damage in half. My next step would be to rework the NPCs and drop they're static stats. This way I could randomize their builds, with all the gear, skills, and specializations available to the players. Then make a return of the mini-boss and boss NPCs. The mini-boss being 100%, and a boss being 200% stronger than the players. The regular NPCs strength should be on par with the players. After this I would add in a death toll system, the more you die, the less you get for rewards.
I'd keep the reputation system, it does help in gearing the player. But with the mini-boss and boss back in play. I'd give them a small chance to drop an item that is unique to them. I might even add in a smaller chance for them to drop a doff pack, or inventory expansion, you know something useful to the players. Of course this also means that everything in the service tab of the C-Store now becomes a tradable item.
This would present all players with new and challenging content. Since now they have to figure out how to survive it. The only thing that would be left after this, is ignoring the complaints about the game being to hard.
So, you're really not wanting to improve the game for everyone, you're wanting he game to change to what YOU want it to be. There is not a thing stopping you from getting a group of friends/like minded people and doing what you want, don't respawn, don't enter ques when you're injured, if its to cheap to repair, then voluntarially get rid of X amount of EC you deem fair.
You don't seem content to let people play how they want......you seem to want them to play how YOU (and a very small minority it seems) wants. Something you do not seem to comprehend, ALL MMO's are going this route because ya know....fun.
Like said and you have conveniently ignored several times, what gives you the right to determine who is desirable and who is not, and what gives you the right to make that call.
I don't think I would continue to play a game that had so many "undeliverables" in it.
You do realize that a game with no challenge can be no fun to quite a few people...right? And saying that we want more challenge is just as a valid feedback and request as it was for all you casuals to complain and DEMAND that they make the game easier with no fail conditions. Hell it's even better because at least we are requesting and not demanding things.
We also provide suggestions on how it might be brought about. So instead of crying, "I WANT! I WANT! I WANT!", we're more along the lines of, "Perhaps if they tried this..."
lol "A Kobali token from the Cstore can restore your dead toon"..yea so folks should pay money to regain the stuff they already paid money for...yea thats a perfect idea
Just bring back fail conditions for advanced again and revert all the changes made after DR to the values we got directly with DR for advanced because they were calculated propperly (just to stop instant kills of the poor entity as example!)
I say no to fail conditions, but when it comes to the entity of like to see the return of original version, which had mechanics you absolutely had to follow if you wanted to complete the encounter. Had more than a few runs that got it to 10% health, only for someone to TRIBBLE up and let it heal back to 100%. With the right tuning it would be a lot of fun, and better than the current mindless DPS race.
lol "A Kobali token from the Cstore can restore your dead toon"..yea so folks should pay money to regain the stuff they already paid money for...yea thats a perfect idea
"Pay us to revive your dead toon, to recover what you already paid for. Then pay us again for more stuff, that you'll eventually have to pay us again to revive your toon and recover."
Here is a shocker that you elitists have overlooked, its the CASUALS that pay the bills, buy the ships, buy the outfits, do the space barbie etc....guess who the devs will listen to and who they SHOULD listen to. It comes down to basic economics....if X player base gives me more money than Y, well I will listen to X.
You just don't seem to want to accept, some games are super casual, some are not.
Look down on casuals all you want, without them, the game would die, also BTW ya I am a casual player here, wanna play hardcore, meet me in eve null sec sometime if ya got the cojones.
Just bring back fail conditions for advanced again and revert all the changes made after DR to the values we got directly with DR for advanced because they were calculated propperly (just to stop instant kills of the poor entity as example!)
I say no to fail conditions, but when it comes to the entity of like to see the return of original version, which had mechanics you absolutely had to follow if you wanted to complete the encounter. Had more than a few runs that got it to 10% health, only for someone to **** up and let it heal back to 100%. With the right tuning it would be a lot of fun, and better than the current mindless DPS race.
why no fail conditions for ADVANCED. its called ADVANCED and not free loot for everyone. we still have normal, thats the free loot for everyone part. right now we could just delete normal bc beside some minor differences in hp there is absolutly no difference. => Bring back advanced fail conditions
hell during the time we had them, weaker people actually used tactics again like the 10% rule for isa ^^
While there have been some good suggestions made I would go so far as putting perma-death into the normal play of the game. I would argue that since this game has become F2P the casual community probably far outweighs the top tier player. In saying that Cryptic stands to lose a lot more by adding perma-death considering that if its true the casual player base is the largest once they started to lose money to revive their character or retain things they spent real money on then people will stop playing and the game will die. The elite community will not be enough to sustain this game. That being said a rebalance or an addition to queues wouldnt be a horrible thing. Think something like hardcore elite where as mentioned you do less damage and the enemies have more HP. Of course they would need to add appropriate awards because why run it if it isnt worth your time. Maybe also another thought could be overpowered "overworld" bosses that pop up like the alerts that take a large amount of players to take out and I believe as trennan mentioned have them have a small percentage of dropping a rare item. At least it would be something fresh for people to do. Just my opinion though
Just bring back fail conditions for advanced again and revert all the changes made after DR to the values we got directly with DR for advanced because they were calculated propperly (just to stop instant kills of the poor entity as example!)
I say no to fail conditions, but when it comes to the entity of like to see the return of original version, which had mechanics you absolutely had to follow if you wanted to complete the encounter. Had more than a few runs that got it to 10% health, only for someone to **** up and let it heal back to 100%. With the right tuning it would be a lot of fun, and better than the current mindless DPS race.
why no fail conditions for ADVANCED. its called ADVANCED and not free loot for everyone. we still have normal, thats the free loot for everyone part. right now we could just delete normal bc beside some minor differences in hp there is absolutly no difference. => Bring back advanced fail conditions
hell during the time we had them, weaker people actually used tactics again like the 10% rule for isa ^^
Because fail conditions with a 30 minute timer are stupid and enable trolls. I never once had a Borg Disconnected Advanced succeed with the fail conditions, because I was always the only player liberating Borg ships and no one was reaching my chat messages.
What I would like to see is the implementation of a system that has worked for every other MMO on the market, which I posted about on page 4:
Considering the general reaction/attitude toward any PvE that has a fail condition, I'm fairly confident in my assumption that what you suggest would reduce the already stuggling queues to a graveyard.
I'm in favor of removing the respawn option as well, but I'd also add in "Resurrection" abilities, and in the event that the whole team died I would then allow all of them to respawn but with whatever phase they're on resetting to it's beginning.
You know, kinda like how in WoW if the group wipes on a boss the encounter resets and everyone runs back for another attempt. Being able to Zerg through certain queues in STO is a bad thing imho, almost as bad as fail conditions.
Yeah using World of Borecraft as an example is a bad idea. That game is dead and the vast majority left years ago due to things just like what you suggest along witht he stupidly insane 50 plaus man raids that lasted days and had a screwed up loot system. Golly gee I have ahunter that needs that bow but gosh a Death Knight pulled need and got the uber rare bow thay can't even use. Yeah great game WOW since Blizzard sold out to Craptasticvision...
There hasn't been a 40 man raid since either TBC or Vanilla. Modern WoW raiding has a queue difficulty, plus normal and Heroic which scale based on group size with a minimum of 10 players, and Mythic which requires 20. The loot system has also changed and players can now only roll on things designed for their class, with most non-raid loot now using a "personal loot" system in which players are awarded loot specifically for them which is then automatically placed in their bag without a roll.
All of that is irrelevant to my suggestion though, because the system I described, where instance encounters reset on a wipe and players try again after rezzing, is how every other MMO I've played other than STO has had instances work. STOs system, on the other hand, encourages a solo mentality and all but guarantees eventual victory as long as you keep respawning, and the alternative that Cryptic came up with, fail conditions, was absolutely stupid.
To help explain how this would work, let's take Borg Disconnected as an example. With my suggestion, failing to liberate enough Borg ships during the Undine phase, or everyone dieing, would result in everyone bring teleported / rezzed back to the start location, the Undine arrival cinematic replaying, and the phase starting over. No free win, but no fail and 30 minute lockout either.
Here is a shocker that you elitists have overlooked, its the CASUALS that pay the bills, buy the ships, buy the outfits, do the space barbie etc....guess who the devs will listen to and who they SHOULD listen to. It comes down to basic economics....if X player base gives me more money than Y, well I will listen to X.
You just don't seem to want to accept, some games are super casual, some are not.
Look down on casuals all you want, without them, the game would die, also BTW ya I am a casual player here, wanna play hardcore, meet me in eve null sec sometime if ya got the cojones.
Basic economics. If X player base pays more for what I offer than Y player base. Then what can we do to get both X and Y to pay more?
The fact they have listened to and gave the X players what they wanted, is the reason the game is in the sorry state that it is in. Catering to just one side of the coin, is the slowest form of suicide for any game.
As I stated in a previous post. The only saving grace for STO right now, is the name Star Trek.
Comments
Wow, maybe they should run a contest during the Winter Event to determine exactly which of the 'most shameful' things done by the Developers IS the 'most shameful'.
Well one good thing about the 'Perma-death' idea is that while they are expending energy here on a non-starter, we are not getting Green Orion, R&D Promotion Pack is logical and the greatest thing since sliced bread, or Cardassians are the most noble blah, blah, Threads. Something at least.
Tom, Bert, and Bill Huggins are alive and well here.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
ingame: @Felisean
Nope, not an elitist at all.......who are YOU to say who is desirable or not ? What makes YOU qualified to make that call ?
You don't seem content to let people play how they want......you seem to want them to play how YOU (and a very small minority it seems) wants. Something you do not seem to comprehend, ALL MMO's are going this route because ya know....fun.
Like said and you have conveniently ignored several times, what gives you the right to determine who is desirable and who is not, and what gives you the right to make that call.
I don't think I would continue to play a game that had so many "undeliverables" in it.
Well no, there is a bit of shame on the dev's here. They caved in and gave the player what they wanted, more power creep at a faster pace and easier content. Now they're realizing that was a mistake. Which is evident with the last bits of work toward balancing the game back out.
But the dev's learned a hard lesson here, or at least we can hope they did. One of the primary premises of Star Trek is overcoming adversity. They're having to do that with the player base and the power creep. Let's hope we start to see content that reflects this.
The players on the other hand. Well... the ones that wanted the power creep, the more casual mode of play that we have. They got what they wanted. Though, it has hurt the game. The thing here, is the part of the player base that wanted this doesn't care if it hurts the game, as long as they get what they want. The fact that they have gotten what they wanted, is also the main reason players have left the game.
So anyone saying you shouldn't force what you want on others, really needs to take a step back here. Those of us that actually care about the game, but want more challenging content and game play, have been forced to live under the wants of the power creep players for years now.
Now, everyone is also focusing on one suggestion here, the perma-death one. I have played a game with this system. It does make a game challenging and engaging. You have to pay attention to what you are doing at all times. Though, STO isn't setup for the best setup of this. It requires large maps. This way you can offer the chance for the players to return to their corpse and recoup everything. Plus, PvE for ground missions it wouldn't be a worry. "I'm dead. But hey my boff can revive me." So, while it would work for STO. It's not the best option to go with. It would mainly just be figuring out how to ensure the player could recoup their losses.
The main problem we're facing in STO, is the players do entirely to much damage. If it were up to me, my first step here, would be to cut player damage in half. My next step would be to rework the NPCs and drop they're static stats. This way I could randomize their builds, with all the gear, skills, and specializations available to the players. Then make a return of the mini-boss and boss NPCs. The mini-boss being 100%, and a boss being 200% stronger than the players. The regular NPCs strength should be on par with the players. After this I would add in a death toll system, the more you die, the less you get for rewards.
I'd keep the reputation system, it does help in gearing the player. But with the mini-boss and boss back in play. I'd give them a small chance to drop an item that is unique to them. I might even add in a smaller chance for them to drop a doff pack, or inventory expansion, you know something useful to the players. Of course this also means that everything in the service tab of the C-Store now becomes a tradable item.
This would present all players with new and challenging content. Since now they have to figure out how to survive it. The only thing that would be left after this, is ignoring the complaints about the game being to hard.
We also provide suggestions on how it might be brought about. So instead of crying, "I WANT! I WANT! I WANT!", we're more along the lines of, "Perhaps if they tried this..."
I say no to fail conditions, but when it comes to the entity of like to see the return of original version, which had mechanics you absolutely had to follow if you wanted to complete the encounter. Had more than a few runs that got it to 10% health, only for someone to TRIBBLE up and let it heal back to 100%. With the right tuning it would be a lot of fun, and better than the current mindless DPS race.
"Pay us to revive your dead toon, to recover what you already paid for. Then pay us again for more stuff, that you'll eventually have to pay us again to revive your toon and recover."
Kind of sounds like something Cryptic would do.
You just don't seem to want to accept, some games are super casual, some are not.
Look down on casuals all you want, without them, the game would die, also BTW ya I am a casual player here, wanna play hardcore, meet me in eve null sec sometime if ya got the cojones.
why no fail conditions for ADVANCED. its called ADVANCED and not free loot for everyone. we still have normal, thats the free loot for everyone part. right now we could just delete normal bc beside some minor differences in hp there is absolutly no difference. => Bring back advanced fail conditions
hell during the time we had them, weaker people actually used tactics again like the 10% rule for isa ^^
ingame: @Felisean
That your idea is unpopular and always will be?
Because fail conditions with a 30 minute timer are stupid and enable trolls. I never once had a Borg Disconnected Advanced succeed with the fail conditions, because I was always the only player liberating Borg ships and no one was reaching my chat messages.
What I would like to see is the implementation of a system that has worked for every other MMO on the market, which I posted about on page 4:
Basic economics. If X player base pays more for what I offer than Y player base. Then what can we do to get both X and Y to pay more?
The fact they have listened to and gave the X players what they wanted, is the reason the game is in the sorry state that it is in. Catering to just one side of the coin, is the slowest form of suicide for any game.
As I stated in a previous post. The only saving grace for STO right now, is the name Star Trek.