Watched 3 episodes in hope that somehow it gets better.This is hopeless and big disgrace to 60yrs of Star Trek.Not even out of curiosity going to watch more episodes of this...discovery .My advise to studio, producers etc is this: 1.Cancel it ASAP 2.bring back old cast and stuff ,who worked hard and loved the show and still do,and use them.They know what Star Trek really is 3.First have a strong plot then you'll have a good series.For what i can tell so far even Sto plots are 1000x better than discovery's. 4.examine again your stance with Axanar crew .They seemed to have at least a decent show in development 5.See 1 again !
we aren't part of the targeted demographic here, neither you, nor I. The targeted demographic is a generation that needs 'safe spaces' to escape from opinions they didn't have dictated to them on Tumblr, needs to have a "relatable" character who's just like the way they see themselves, They need their antagonists to have NO redeeming or even recognizable common qualities, grew up watching BSG's reboot, but without understanding the subtext or context it was made in, and would probably love the hell out of waterworld, Ferngully, and any other anvilicious **** you might've seen released to theaters in the last 10 years. They think of trek, and enshrine it as a platform for social progressive ideology, but don't have the patience to understand WHY it was successful while temper-tantrums in the streets and speech codes have been counterproductive.
the Targeted Demographic needs their social message delivered with an anvil, because, frankly, they've had everything they believe spoon-fed to them their entire lives and they live in an internet echo-chamber where everyone but the trolls has the same opinions and goals they do. They think they should get fifteen bucks an hour to make coffee and heat up sandwiches because they spent two hundred grand on a degree that's basically useless and was useless before they born.
the Targeted Demographic is still obsessed with an election loss from last year that basically happened because we've got a system that guarantees a vote in Nebraska or Michigan is as valuable in the national level election, as a vote in California, because otherwise smaller states would have NO representation. (They also don't understand this concept).
we may share a few values with them, a few ideas, but we're not the demographic Discovery's makers are looking for. IOW you're too intelligent to enjoy the show they've created. Be Glad you're too intelligent to enjoy it.
They completely didn't get the first two seasons of BSG, that's for sure. They had some highly subversive plot elements in there, like the antifa-like Useful Idiots the Cylons got to sabotage the War Effort for them. I knew the network bigs had twigged to it and cracked the whip when Season 2 ended with the New Caprica collaborators dressed in TRIBBLE-like uniforms and Season 3 opened with them dressed in US Army desert BDUs. The series went rapidly downhill from there to it's epicly awful ending that pretty much killed the franchise outright.
IMO, the purpose of TRIBBLE is to retcon the franchise to put it in conformance with current SJW thinking. SJWs on this thread and others are already denying the series ever had a different message though watching TOS and the movies with the TOS crew proves that is complete nonsense, as Shatner has said more than once.
Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
She was given a legal, if immoral, order to suck up a hostile act by a alien species and ignores it, while successfully rescuing the CO and XO without any violence or political repercussions. Even better, they got them to pay for some of the most brain-rotting cultural products created by Mankind in the bargain. Of course that is morally equivalent to antifa girl physically assaulting her superior officer and mutinying to carry out an action that had been already been rejected by the CO because it went against the direct orders she had just been issued by Starfleet command in Burnham's presence and against Starfleet's most deeply held values as seen in every prior series.
Of course, I wonder how the Peace Lobby in the Federation would have taken it if Starfleet entered in this war being perceived as having fired the first shot....which is all Burnham would have achieved. Because she was dead wrong about what was happening....this wasn't a antifa onanist fantasy where they punch the big bad "Rethuglican" and they just slink off with their tail between their legs never to be heard from again while they posture triumphantly....the Klingons were there to call the Federation out and force them into a war one way or another. Everybody Shenzou's Bridge knew something was seriously not right with the way the Klingons were acting....everybody but Burnham, that is.
Kitan wanted to go after them as bad as the crew did....it just took her a while to understand that for political reasons she couldn't expect Command backing and that she would have to accept full responsibility for staging the op, and any repercussions thereof...for good or for ill. Kirk did that every other epsisode, and Picard, Janeway and Sisko did it fairly often too. Starfleet picks it's captains for their demonstrated good judgement...their disobedience always was reasoned, executed prudently, and invariably succeeded. The only difference between Kitan and how the ST COs would have handled it is the latter wouldn't have asked for further instructions, they would have just done it.
Oh, and about one-note villains? T'Kuvma alone gets considerably more development than the Krill in their entirety. Besides the captain in the pilot they're literally just targets to shoot so far. And the heroes' plan in the pilot? Relied entirely on A: the Krill captain not blasting them out of space after getting what he wanted, and B: being stupid enough to test the techtech on his ship instead of taking it back to base.
But it's a comedy and not actually a Star Trek show so it's apparently more Trek than the actual Trek of its era.
Now, me, I'm not giving it a pass because it's a comedy (and I don't think it really qualifies; at BEST it's a dramedy): even comedies need to develop their characters. I'm letting it slide for the moment because they've only aired four episodes out of (I'm guessing) twenty.
Hey, funny thing: we're only three episodes into DSC.
Even funnier thing: how I'm judging them by the same standard as any Star Trek show, on what they're actually depicting, instead of hunting around for ways to justify a decision I made about the show months ago. (For the record, I went into The Orville expecting to hate it, but I actually enjoy it.)
replace: 'stupid' with 'desperate'. also, the Krill captain managed to squeak out amusing notes, esp. when confronted with a couples' spat..that's already more development, because the Krill showed more than a single note, and did it in considrably less time. (The Orville's first ep was around 43 minutes long when you elminate commercial breaks.) T'Kuvma and his followers had a LOT more time (2 hour pilot) and managed ONLY a single note in all that time. (IOW nothing but his politics do you actually see.)
In the second episode of Orville, there were some writing 'bumps' sure, but here's the big differences: the solution was elegant and appropriate to the situation. The negotiation move was also appropriate to the internal physics of the setting, people acted reasonably in addressing it, and people who OUGHT to be out of their depth confronting the situation acted like, and were, in fact, out of their depth (and knew it).
They gave the characters more depth and development, per minute of show time, on Orville than in ST:D. Maybe it was not having enough budget for long, lingering glamour shots of space and ships, maybe it's jsut that the writing was tighter and cleaner, maybe that writing was tighter and cleaner because they didn't have the budget for long, lingering glamour shots?
Yeah? What do we know about the Krill captain, let's call him Not-Kruge? We know that Not-Kruge wants the totally-not-a-Genesis-Device for reasons made clear before he arrived, and we know he's married.
That's it.
Now, what do we know about T'Kuvma by the end of the pilot (both parts)?
We have existing Klingon culture(s) as a baseline.
We know he views the Federation as a threat to Klingon culture. I'll get to that more in a minute.
We know he values chutzpah among his followers more than physical appearance. Now, right there's something to admire.
So yeah, it's all focused on his politics, but there's nuance to it if you bother to look. The Krill are just generic aliens to blast.
Now, this is interesting to me, is why would he consider the Federation a threat to Klingon culture? Well, even as late as DS9 and even with sympathetic Klingons like Martok, we get lines like, "We do not accommodate other cultures, we conquer them!" Right there, that's the seed for openly Klingon-supremacist characters: it's a baby step from Martok's rhetoric to T'Kuvma's, and Martok was one of the Good Guys.
Now, add into that the original use of the Klingons as a fictional counterpart to Soviet Russia. The Klingons are a chaotic feudal oligarchy that maintains a semblance of order through fear: whether fear of the dominant Great House in the person of the Chancellor, or fear of an outside aggressor--or, key point, someone they can paint as such. And meanwhile species around them are in constant fear that they might be next on the Klingons' hit-list.
Now suddenly here comes this upstart democracy right on their border which is both considerably richer and more politically stable, where folks can live and work a day without worrying that their coworker is suddenly going to knife them to gain an advantage. Neutral planets are going to be flocking to them hoping for protection from the Klingons. Klingons stuck at the bottom of the ladder, shat on by the nobles, are going to be looking to improve their situation, whether by leaving, or worse (for the Great Houses' regime), by staying.
You know what I'm seeing there? Well, I'm seeing a wall, but not the one Twitler strokes himself to. I'm seeing the Berlin Wall, when the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact government of East Germany attempted to stop their best and brightest from fleeing to West Berlin to get out. I'm seeing the expansion of NATO to include former Warsaw Pact and Soviet countries like Poland and the Baltic States after they kicked out their Russian overlords (goes without saying, Comrade Putin sees that as a threat to his power).
So, now we're up to Klingon-supremacism as an excuse for maintaining or regaining geopolitical influence, which frankly is a motive considerably older than this past election cycle. And once again, I'm reminded of this exchange from DS9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs
Basically, better than 90% of the Klingons' problems are completely self-inflicted, they're just too wrapped up in their traditions to acknowledge it.
Huh, interesting. You accuse the show of being some kind of "SJW fantasy" when in fact the show actually agrees with you (and me), that "antifa girl" acted wrongly. By her own admission, even.
So, is it an "SJW masturbatory fantasy" or isn't it? Because you seem to be contradicting yourself.
And oh by the way? When you're a junior lieutenant and a fleet admiral gives you a direct and fully legal order, to your face, point blank, no fuzzy language whatsoever: "do not enter species-of-the-week's space"? In the real world there's no question about obeying it: you do. Period. Which, among other things, is precisely why Burnham was in the wrong.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Oh, and about one-note villains? T'Kuvma alone gets considerably more development than the Krill in their entirety. Besides the captain in the pilot they're literally just targets to shoot so far. And the heroes' plan in the pilot? Relied entirely on A: the Krill captain not blasting them out of space after getting what he wanted, and B: being stupid enough to test the techtech on his ship instead of taking it back to base.
But it's a comedy and not actually a Star Trek show so it's apparently more Trek than the actual Trek of its era.
Now, me, I'm not giving it a pass because it's a comedy (and I don't think it really qualifies; at BEST it's a dramedy): even comedies need to develop their characters. I'm letting it slide for the moment because they've only aired four episodes out of (I'm guessing) twenty.
Hey, funny thing: we're only three episodes into DSC.
Even funnier thing: how I'm judging them by the same standard as any Star Trek show, on what they're actually depicting, instead of hunting around for ways to justify a decision I made about the show months ago. (For the record, I went into The Orville expecting to hate it, but I actually enjoy it.)
replace: 'stupid' with 'desperate'. also, the Krill captain managed to squeak out amusing notes, esp. when confronted with a couples' spat..that's already more development, because the Krill showed more than a single note, and did it in considrably less time. (The Orville's first ep was around 43 minutes long when you elminate commercial breaks.) T'Kuvma and his followers had a LOT more time (2 hour pilot) and managed ONLY a single note in all that time. (IOW nothing but his politics do you actually see.)
In the second episode of Orville, there were some writing 'bumps' sure, but here's the big differences: the solution was elegant and appropriate to the situation. The negotiation move was also appropriate to the internal physics of the setting, people acted reasonably in addressing it, and people who OUGHT to be out of their depth confronting the situation acted like, and were, in fact, out of their depth (and knew it).
They gave the characters more depth and development, per minute of show time, on Orville than in ST:D. Maybe it was not having enough budget for long, lingering glamour shots of space and ships, maybe it's jsut that the writing was tighter and cleaner, maybe that writing was tighter and cleaner because they didn't have the budget for long, lingering glamour shots?
Yeah? What do we know about the Krill captain, let's call him Not-Kruge? We know that Not-Kruge wants the totally-not-a-Genesis-Device for reasons made clear before he arrived, and we know he's married.
That's it.
Now, what do we know about T'Kuvma by the end of the pilot (both parts)?
We have existing Klingon culture(s) as a baseline.
We know he views the Federation as a threat to Klingon culture. I'll get to that more in a minute.
We know he values chutzpah among his followers more than physical appearance. Now, right there's something to admire.
So yeah, it's all focused on his politics, but there's nuance to it if you bother to look. The Krill are just generic aliens to blast.
Now, this is interesting to me, is why would he consider the Federation a threat to Klingon culture? Well, even as late as DS9 and even with sympathetic Klingons like Martok, we get lines like, "We do not accommodate other cultures, we conquer them!" Right there, that's the seed for openly Klingon-supremacist characters: it's a baby step from Martok's rhetoric to T'Kuvma's, and Martok was one of the Good Guys.
Now, add into that the original use of the Klingons as a fictional counterpart to Soviet Russia. The Klingons are a chaotic feudal oligarchy that maintains a semblance of order through fear: whether fear of the dominant Great House in the person of the Chancellor, or fear of an outside aggressor--or, key point, someone they can paint as such. And meanwhile species around them are in constant fear that they might be next on the Klingons' hit-list.
Now suddenly here comes this upstart democracy right on their border which is both considerably richer and more politically stable, where folks can live and work a day without worrying that their coworker is suddenly going to knife them to gain an advantage. Neutral planets are going to be flocking to them hoping for protection from the Klingons. Klingons stuck at the bottom of the ladder, shat on by the nobles, are going to be looking to improve their situation, whether by leaving, or worse (for the Great Houses' regime), by staying.
You know what I'm seeing there? Well, I'm seeing a wall, but not the one Twitler strokes himself to. I'm seeing the Berlin Wall, when the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact government of East Germany attempted to stop their best and brightest from fleeing to West Berlin to get out. I'm seeing the expansion of NATO to include former Warsaw Pact and Soviet countries like Poland and the Baltic States after they kicked out their Russian overlords (goes without saying, Comrade Putin sees that as a threat to his power).
So, now we're up to Klingon-supremacism as an excuse for maintaining or regaining geopolitical influence, which frankly is a motive considerably older than this past election cycle. And once again, I'm reminded of this exchange from DS9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs
Basically, better than 90% of the Klingons' problems are completely self-inflicted, they're just too wrapped up in their traditions to acknowledge it.
Huh, interesting. You accuse the show of being some kind of "SJW fantasy" when in fact the show actually agrees with you (and me), that "antifa girl" acted wrongly. By her own admission, even.
So, is it an "SJW masturbatory fantasy" or isn't it? Because you seem to be contradicting yourself.
And oh by the way? When you're a junior lieutenant and a fleet admiral gives you a direct and fully legal order, to your face, point blank, no fuzzy language whatsoever: "do not enter species-of-the-week's space"? In the real world there's no question about obeying it: you do. Period. Which, among other things, is precisely why Burnham was in the wrong.
ST:D's Klingons would never crack an off-color joke, would never laugh at one either, they certainly wouldn't refuse a bad (impractical) order, or mock an incompetent leader. They aren't going to take the initiative in a stressful situation or shrug off losses to accomplish a goal. They display NONE of the archetype behaviours of 'KLINGON'. They could just as easily be replaced by bald men in 3 piece suits (and the line-delivery would be better, since bald men in 3 piece suits don't have ultraheavy prosthetics preventing facial expression.)
Not enough evidence to determine the behaviour of Discovery Klingons in general due to our only evidence of Discovery Klingons is a bunch of religious fanatics and outcasts on one ship. It could be that the rest of the Discovery Klingons act Klingon and we just saw the rejects.
well, obviously they're rejects; t'kuvma let an albino become torchbearer after all, which is a sacred position
societal outcasts tend to be a bit less bigoted towards other outcasts, after all...unless he's just particularly open-minded, but if he were, he wouldn't be so threatened by the federation and what they represent
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Oh, and about one-note villains? T'Kuvma alone gets considerably more development than the Krill in their entirety. Besides the captain in the pilot they're literally just targets to shoot so far. And the heroes' plan in the pilot? Relied entirely on A: the Krill captain not blasting them out of space after getting what he wanted, and B: being stupid enough to test the techtech on his ship instead of taking it back to base.
But it's a comedy and not actually a Star Trek show so it's apparently more Trek than the actual Trek of its era.
Now, me, I'm not giving it a pass because it's a comedy (and I don't think it really qualifies; at BEST it's a dramedy): even comedies need to develop their characters. I'm letting it slide for the moment because they've only aired four episodes out of (I'm guessing) twenty.
Hey, funny thing: we're only three episodes into DSC.
Even funnier thing: how I'm judging them by the same standard as any Star Trek show, on what they're actually depicting, instead of hunting around for ways to justify a decision I made about the show months ago. (For the record, I went into The Orville expecting to hate it, but I actually enjoy it.)
replace: 'stupid' with 'desperate'. also, the Krill captain managed to squeak out amusing notes, esp. when confronted with a couples' spat..that's already more development, because the Krill showed more than a single note, and did it in considrably less time. (The Orville's first ep was around 43 minutes long when you elminate commercial breaks.) T'Kuvma and his followers had a LOT more time (2 hour pilot) and managed ONLY a single note in all that time. (IOW nothing but his politics do you actually see.)
In the second episode of Orville, there were some writing 'bumps' sure, but here's the big differences: the solution was elegant and appropriate to the situation. The negotiation move was also appropriate to the internal physics of the setting, people acted reasonably in addressing it, and people who OUGHT to be out of their depth confronting the situation acted like, and were, in fact, out of their depth (and knew it).
They gave the characters more depth and development, per minute of show time, on Orville than in ST:D. Maybe it was not having enough budget for long, lingering glamour shots of space and ships, maybe it's jsut that the writing was tighter and cleaner, maybe that writing was tighter and cleaner because they didn't have the budget for long, lingering glamour shots?
Yeah? What do we know about the Krill captain, let's call him Not-Kruge? We know that Not-Kruge wants the totally-not-a-Genesis-Device for reasons made clear before he arrived, and we know he's married.
That's it.
Now, what do we know about T'Kuvma by the end of the pilot (both parts)?
We have existing Klingon culture(s) as a baseline.
We know he views the Federation as a threat to Klingon culture. I'll get to that more in a minute.
We know he values chutzpah among his followers more than physical appearance. Now, right there's something to admire.
So yeah, it's all focused on his politics, but there's nuance to it if you bother to look. The Krill are just generic aliens to blast.
Now, this is interesting to me, is why would he consider the Federation a threat to Klingon culture? Well, even as late as DS9 and even with sympathetic Klingons like Martok, we get lines like, "We do not accommodate other cultures, we conquer them!" Right there, that's the seed for openly Klingon-supremacist characters: it's a baby step from Martok's rhetoric to T'Kuvma's, and Martok was one of the Good Guys.
Now, add into that the original use of the Klingons as a fictional counterpart to Soviet Russia. The Klingons are a chaotic feudal oligarchy that maintains a semblance of order through fear: whether fear of the dominant Great House in the person of the Chancellor, or fear of an outside aggressor--or, key point, someone they can paint as such. And meanwhile species around them are in constant fear that they might be next on the Klingons' hit-list.
Now suddenly here comes this upstart democracy right on their border which is both considerably richer and more politically stable, where folks can live and work a day without worrying that their coworker is suddenly going to knife them to gain an advantage. Neutral planets are going to be flocking to them hoping for protection from the Klingons. Klingons stuck at the bottom of the ladder, shat on by the nobles, are going to be looking to improve their situation, whether by leaving, or worse (for the Great Houses' regime), by staying.
You know what I'm seeing there? Well, I'm seeing a wall, but not the one Twitler strokes himself to. I'm seeing the Berlin Wall, when the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact government of East Germany attempted to stop their best and brightest from fleeing to West Berlin to get out. I'm seeing the expansion of NATO to include former Warsaw Pact and Soviet countries like Poland and the Baltic States after they kicked out their Russian overlords (goes without saying, Comrade Putin sees that as a threat to his power).
So, now we're up to Klingon-supremacism as an excuse for maintaining or regaining geopolitical influence, which frankly is a motive considerably older than this past election cycle. And once again, I'm reminded of this exchange from DS9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfNe2uv-bHs
Basically, better than 90% of the Klingons' problems are completely self-inflicted, they're just too wrapped up in their traditions to acknowledge it.
Huh, interesting. You accuse the show of being some kind of "SJW fantasy" when in fact the show actually agrees with you (and me), that "antifa girl" acted wrongly. By her own admission, even.
So, is it an "SJW masturbatory fantasy" or isn't it? Because you seem to be contradicting yourself.
And oh by the way? When you're a junior lieutenant and a fleet admiral gives you a direct and fully legal order, to your face, point blank, no fuzzy language whatsoever: "do not enter species-of-the-week's space"? In the real world there's no question about obeying it: you do. Period. Which, among other things, is precisely why Burnham was in the wrong.
Aside from Language, Starsword, there was nothing "Klingon" about the Klingons in Discovery. They were arthritic, almost paralytic, soft-voiced, hyper-ritualized, even (dare I say it) religious fanatics who had pretty much NOTHING beyond the generic "racial supremacist" vibe and some ridges on their faces.
Whoa, Klingon religious fanatics actually appear as if they are religious fanatics? Whoa, Klingons culture is actually more complex than we thought? Who allowed them to wear more than one hat?
Oh, and a language and terms that were yanked from a better product and tacked on like the afterthought they were. It's not just 'the look' it's the thinking underlying that look. for a 'warrior race' the very first moment of conflict showed them to be grossly incompetent at fighting, armed with grossly incompetent for fighting weapons. (what kind of moron points a thrusting blade at HIMSELF to threaten someone else? or designs armor in a melee situation with distinctive blade-traps to direct an opponent's blade INTO his body, instead of away from it? it's like plate-armor-with-bo*bs, a standard of album covers and bad comic books only.)
ST:D's Klingons would never crack an off-color joke, would never laugh at one either,
Because those are clearly dominant tratss we clearly see in iconic Klingons like Chang, Kruge, Gorkon or Azetbur, right?
No, they are not.
they certainly wouldn't refuse a bad (impractical) order, or mock an incompetent leader.
Why would they not? Where do you get that impression? There actually was a Klingon that didn't seem all that happy of the idea to overtake the torchbearer's duties. But he was a minority opinion.
They aren't going to take the initiative in a stressful situation or shrug off losses to accomplish a goal.
What did the Albino do then?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
For me, it's really tough to get into this grimdark Trek. A laugh interspersed with death and dark secrets is not what I'm looking for in a Trek show. If you like NuTrek, that's cool. It seems they are going for a brand new audience behind a pay wall. I hope that works out for them. If it does, maybe they will write a show with an ounce of hope in it (though some posters seem to think "hope" is gauche or stale or something).
I'm not jazzed on the Orville either. I know people like some of the characters in spite of the stories, but it isn't Trek either. "Trek in spirit" or whatever you call it is not scratching that itch.
I'm enjoying the Lukari oriented stories in STO more than any show currently in production. They are formulaic, but there are certain tones and concepts I associate with Star Trek that I'm not finding elsewhere.
Here on Discovery, humans still made it through all the bad stuff in the future. The Federation was founded and Starfleet is out and about exploring strange new worlds in peaceful contact. Isn't that hopeful of our future?
None of this is evident in Star Trek: Discovery. All of that happens in a different show. There has been no exploration shown in Discovery (though someone mentions being an explorer before they are viscerally murdered). No peaceful contact shown in Discovery (though the captain mentions peace before getting the neck pinch). The only contact mentioned is with the Klingons, whom you are to shoot on sight. At this point, what we are watching is a parody or a mockery, depending what happens after someone says something.
Episode 1 features the accidental death of a Klingon and a mutiny over shooting first. Episode 2 showcases that Klingons need to murder the Federation because they "mix races" and that is icky. The answer was to take T'Kumva prisoner, until the answer becomes murder him. Episode 3 starts us in a shuttle, the pilot dies, "black badges", more rule breaking, murdering epohs, and "it's just a ship". They even have an in-universe reason for the sets being dark. Everyone has a tragic past(tm) or a secret edgy past(tm).
The atmosphere of the show is grim and dark. It's what the writers and showrunners said they would deliver and they've done it. If this is working for you, great. It's just not my cup of tea.
So... am I really the only one wondering why CBS marketing cleared a show title that abbreviates to TRIBBLE? I mean, sure, with those weekly episodes, you gotta catch them all, but still...
So... am I really the only one wondering why CBS marketing cleared a show title that abbreviates to TRIBBLE? I mean, sure, with those weekly episodes, you gotta catch them all, but still...
They probably expected all the die hard Trekkies to fall in love with the show and be happy to call it DSC. I myself have the maturity of a five year old boy when it comes to these things, so I would be calling it TRIBBLE even if it was the greatest Trek show ever, just because I think it's funny as hell.
I absolutely agree. It's like some stupid reporter who for example is doing a story on a popular game like WOW, and describes it as "cutting edge graphics" or when referencing video games their quickest go to's are pacman, pong, and donkey kong. The part of the Klingon's in STID are clearly done by people who couldn't give a damn about their previous history. They got 15 minutes into a TOS episode, and their response was, "we're done", hold our beers we got this. There's no one in this show that will match Chang, Martok, or Worf. They're making Klingon's a bunch of 2 dimensional King Geoffrey's and front loading a bunch of copy pasted platitudes to seem edgy.
And oh by the way? When you're a junior lieutenant and a fleet admiral gives you a direct and fully legal order, to your face, point blank, no fuzzy language whatsoever: "do not enter species-of-the-week's space"? In the real world there's no question about obeying it: you do. Period. Which, among other things, is precisely why Burnham was in the wrong.
Kitan is young, and on her first posting as a Department head....while Burnham is a experienced officer who is basically on her final exam to get her own ship. Big difference, there. A more seasoned officer in Kitan's shoes would have realized Command couldn't have her back on this and found herself unable to contact Command for new orders.....comm array was sadly deep-sixed by the alien bomb....and acted on her own initiative, accepting that if she failed they would have to write her off for reasons of State. Disobedience to orders, in the right time, the right place, and in the right way, can pay off big....if you're vindicated by events. She didn't do it for fame or glory...but the end results would still have been the same.
Kitan probably would have gotten screamed at by the admiral she disobeyed, but he would have gotten over it in time to approve that medal and the whole episode would have been a major boost to her career. (Look what disobeying orders did for Admiral Nelson at Copenhagen...he got the job of the man he disobeyed and a Viscountcy to boot, even though what he did was so obvious to everyone in Britain it became a idiom still in use today 'Turning a blind eye')
Physically attacking your CO, though? That is simply unheard of for the most part. The best case scenario for Burnham, even if her plan had succeeded, would have been if Starfleet Command allowed her to retire as a CDR or even just resign to avoid a Court-Martial and the guilty verdict the panel would have had no choice but to hand down. Philippa was 100% in the right and Burnham had no grounds to justify her actions. And nobody would ever trust her again.
Meanwhile I've also watched 3 Episodes of The Orville now, and am totally loving it! This is what TRIBBLE should have been. And awesome-points for Lt. Alara Kitan (Halston Sage).
Meanwhile I've also watched 3 Episodes of The Orville now, and am totally loving it! This is what TRIBBLE should have been. And awesome-points for Lt. Alara Kitan (Halston Sage).
Yep.
Plus....Orville is also bright, colorful and cheerful......a world you'd WANT to live in.
Discovery, so far, seems dark and dingy....and gloomy....like Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc.....NOT a place you wanna live in.
Probably why I like TOS and early TNG so much. And That is why Beyond was, to me, the ONLY JJ film they got it right...as in look at Yorktown station....humans and aliens living together, working together, helping each other, loving each other. THAT was Gene's vision.
The bridge of the 1701 in the cage was a lil dull and grey. Not many bright colours ect. The dark style maybe just 2255 starfleet. You could put down the exrra features we see on discovery ncc 1031 to a major refit like the 1701 did in 2280. Holigrafic coms maybe tech sfc brought back in ds9 like we brought back text msgs in a new format.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
No, the Klingons came there to pick a fight. It doesn't really matter who shot first.
And before the inevitable, "But Burnham's judgement was clouded by her prior experiences with Klingons!"... "prior experience" is also called "subject matter expert'.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
But Burnham didn't START a war. She betrayed her captain and is a mutineer, but if she succeeded, then she might have averted a war. The only way for the war to not start is to kill T'Kuvma before he got the other Klingon houses involved, disgrace T'Kuvma, or not send any Starfleet reinforcements. T'Kuvma and his reinforcements destroying the Shenzhou without any Federation reinforcements would have been a dishonorable act and destroyed his ambitions. Once the Starfleet reinforcements came, the war started.
If there is anyone that is responsible for starting the war, it is T'Kuvma. If he failed to start the war in the 2nd episode, then he would have kept trying until he succeeded, was imprisoned, or killed. At least T'Kuvma is replaced by the outcast Voq where it will be difficult for him to bring others to his side. Having Voq in charge of the House of T'Kuvma will make it difficult for the Great Houses to unite under him. So the Great Houses will fight the Federation purely on their interests rather than as a united front.
Comments
1.Cancel it ASAP
2.bring back old cast and stuff ,who worked hard and loved the show and still do,and use them.They know what Star Trek really is
3.First have a strong plot then you'll have a good series.For what i can tell so far even Sto plots are 1000x better than discovery's.
4.examine again your stance with Axanar crew .They seemed to have at least a decent show in development
5.See 1 again !
They completely didn't get the first two seasons of BSG, that's for sure. They had some highly subversive plot elements in there, like the antifa-like Useful Idiots the Cylons got to sabotage the War Effort for them. I knew the network bigs had twigged to it and cracked the whip when Season 2 ended with the New Caprica collaborators dressed in TRIBBLE-like uniforms and Season 3 opened with them dressed in US Army desert BDUs. The series went rapidly downhill from there to it's epicly awful ending that pretty much killed the franchise outright.
IMO, the purpose of TRIBBLE is to retcon the franchise to put it in conformance with current SJW thinking. SJWs on this thread and others are already denying the series ever had a different message though watching TOS and the movies with the TOS crew proves that is complete nonsense, as Shatner has said more than once.
She was given a legal, if immoral, order to suck up a hostile act by a alien species and ignores it, while successfully rescuing the CO and XO without any violence or political repercussions. Even better, they got them to pay for some of the most brain-rotting cultural products created by Mankind in the bargain. Of course that is morally equivalent to antifa girl physically assaulting her superior officer and mutinying to carry out an action that had been already been rejected by the CO because it went against the direct orders she had just been issued by Starfleet command in Burnham's presence and against Starfleet's most deeply held values as seen in every prior series.
Of course, I wonder how the Peace Lobby in the Federation would have taken it if Starfleet entered in this war being perceived as having fired the first shot....which is all Burnham would have achieved. Because she was dead wrong about what was happening....this wasn't a antifa onanist fantasy where they punch the big bad "Rethuglican" and they just slink off with their tail between their legs never to be heard from again while they posture triumphantly....the Klingons were there to call the Federation out and force them into a war one way or another. Everybody Shenzou's Bridge knew something was seriously not right with the way the Klingons were acting....everybody but Burnham, that is.
Kitan wanted to go after them as bad as the crew did....it just took her a while to understand that for political reasons she couldn't expect Command backing and that she would have to accept full responsibility for staging the op, and any repercussions thereof...for good or for ill. Kirk did that every other epsisode, and Picard, Janeway and Sisko did it fairly often too. Starfleet picks it's captains for their demonstrated good judgement...their disobedience always was reasoned, executed prudently, and invariably succeeded. The only difference between Kitan and how the ST COs would have handled it is the latter wouldn't have asked for further instructions, they would have just done it.
Yeah? What do we know about the Krill captain, let's call him Not-Kruge? We know that Not-Kruge wants the totally-not-a-Genesis-Device for reasons made clear before he arrived, and we know he's married.
That's it.
Now, what do we know about T'Kuvma by the end of the pilot (both parts)?
So yeah, it's all focused on his politics, but there's nuance to it if you bother to look. The Krill are just generic aliens to blast.
Now, this is interesting to me, is why would he consider the Federation a threat to Klingon culture? Well, even as late as DS9 and even with sympathetic Klingons like Martok, we get lines like, "We do not accommodate other cultures, we conquer them!" Right there, that's the seed for openly Klingon-supremacist characters: it's a baby step from Martok's rhetoric to T'Kuvma's, and Martok was one of the Good Guys.
Now, add into that the original use of the Klingons as a fictional counterpart to Soviet Russia. The Klingons are a chaotic feudal oligarchy that maintains a semblance of order through fear: whether fear of the dominant Great House in the person of the Chancellor, or fear of an outside aggressor--or, key point, someone they can paint as such. And meanwhile species around them are in constant fear that they might be next on the Klingons' hit-list.
Now suddenly here comes this upstart democracy right on their border which is both considerably richer and more politically stable, where folks can live and work a day without worrying that their coworker is suddenly going to knife them to gain an advantage. Neutral planets are going to be flocking to them hoping for protection from the Klingons. Klingons stuck at the bottom of the ladder, shat on by the nobles, are going to be looking to improve their situation, whether by leaving, or worse (for the Great Houses' regime), by staying.
You know what I'm seeing there? Well, I'm seeing a wall, but not the one Twitler strokes himself to. I'm seeing the Berlin Wall, when the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact government of East Germany attempted to stop their best and brightest from fleeing to West Berlin to get out. I'm seeing the expansion of NATO to include former Warsaw Pact and Soviet countries like Poland and the Baltic States after they kicked out their Russian overlords (goes without saying, Comrade Putin sees that as a threat to his power).
So, now we're up to Klingon-supremacism as an excuse for maintaining or regaining geopolitical influence, which frankly is a motive considerably older than this past election cycle. And once again, I'm reminded of this exchange from DS9:
Basically, better than 90% of the Klingons' problems are completely self-inflicted, they're just too wrapped up in their traditions to acknowledge it.
Huh, interesting. You accuse the show of being some kind of "SJW fantasy" when in fact the show actually agrees with you (and me), that "antifa girl" acted wrongly. By her own admission, even.
So, is it an "SJW masturbatory fantasy" or isn't it? Because you seem to be contradicting yourself.
And oh by the way? When you're a junior lieutenant and a fleet admiral gives you a direct and fully legal order, to your face, point blank, no fuzzy language whatsoever: "do not enter species-of-the-week's space"? In the real world there's no question about obeying it: you do. Period. Which, among other things, is precisely why Burnham was in the wrong.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Not enough evidence to determine the behaviour of Discovery Klingons in general due to our only evidence of Discovery Klingons is a bunch of religious fanatics and outcasts on one ship. It could be that the rest of the Discovery Klingons act Klingon and we just saw the rejects.
societal outcasts tend to be a bit less bigoted towards other outcasts, after all...unless he's just particularly open-minded, but if he were, he wouldn't be so threatened by the federation and what they represent
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Whoa, Klingon religious fanatics actually appear as if they are religious fanatics? Whoa, Klingons culture is actually more complex than we thought? Who allowed them to wear more than one hat?
Because those are clearly dominant tratss we clearly see in iconic Klingons like Chang, Kruge, Gorkon or Azetbur, right?
No, they are not.
Why would they not? Where do you get that impression? There actually was a Klingon that didn't seem all that happy of the idea to overtake the torchbearer's duties. But he was a minority opinion.
What did the Albino do then?
I'm not jazzed on the Orville either. I know people like some of the characters in spite of the stories, but it isn't Trek either. "Trek in spirit" or whatever you call it is not scratching that itch.
I'm enjoying the Lukari oriented stories in STO more than any show currently in production. They are formulaic, but there are certain tones and concepts I associate with Star Trek that I'm not finding elsewhere.
None of this is evident in Star Trek: Discovery. All of that happens in a different show. There has been no exploration shown in Discovery (though someone mentions being an explorer before they are viscerally murdered). No peaceful contact shown in Discovery (though the captain mentions peace before getting the neck pinch). The only contact mentioned is with the Klingons, whom you are to shoot on sight. At this point, what we are watching is a parody or a mockery, depending what happens after someone says something.
Episode 1 features the accidental death of a Klingon and a mutiny over shooting first. Episode 2 showcases that Klingons need to murder the Federation because they "mix races" and that is icky. The answer was to take T'Kumva prisoner, until the answer becomes murder him. Episode 3 starts us in a shuttle, the pilot dies, "black badges", more rule breaking, murdering epohs, and "it's just a ship". They even have an in-universe reason for the sets being dark. Everyone has a tragic past(tm) or a secret edgy past(tm).
The atmosphere of the show is grim and dark. It's what the writers and showrunners said they would deliver and they've done it. If this is working for you, great. It's just not my cup of tea.
They probably expected all the die hard Trekkies to fall in love with the show and be happy to call it DSC. I myself have the maturity of a five year old boy when it comes to these things, so I would be calling it TRIBBLE even if it was the greatest Trek show ever, just because I think it's funny as hell.
Kitan is young, and on her first posting as a Department head....while Burnham is a experienced officer who is basically on her final exam to get her own ship. Big difference, there. A more seasoned officer in Kitan's shoes would have realized Command couldn't have her back on this and found herself unable to contact Command for new orders.....comm array was sadly deep-sixed by the alien bomb....and acted on her own initiative, accepting that if she failed they would have to write her off for reasons of State. Disobedience to orders, in the right time, the right place, and in the right way, can pay off big....if you're vindicated by events. She didn't do it for fame or glory...but the end results would still have been the same.
Kitan probably would have gotten screamed at by the admiral she disobeyed, but he would have gotten over it in time to approve that medal and the whole episode would have been a major boost to her career. (Look what disobeying orders did for Admiral Nelson at Copenhagen...he got the job of the man he disobeyed and a Viscountcy to boot, even though what he did was so obvious to everyone in Britain it became a idiom still in use today 'Turning a blind eye')
Physically attacking your CO, though? That is simply unheard of for the most part. The best case scenario for Burnham, even if her plan had succeeded, would have been if Starfleet Command allowed her to retire as a CDR or even just resign to avoid a Court-Martial and the guilty verdict the panel would have had no choice but to hand down. Philippa was 100% in the right and Burnham had no grounds to justify her actions. And nobody would ever trust her again.
Yep.
Plus....Orville is also bright, colorful and cheerful......a world you'd WANT to live in.
Discovery, so far, seems dark and dingy....and gloomy....like Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc.....NOT a place you wanna live in.
Probably why I like TOS and early TNG so much. And That is why Beyond was, to me, the ONLY JJ film they got it right...as in look at Yorktown station....humans and aliens living together, working together, helping each other, loving each other. THAT was Gene's vision.
data had no choice
kirk averted a war
burnham STARTED a war
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And before the inevitable, "But Burnham's judgement was clouded by her prior experiences with Klingons!"... "prior experience" is also called "subject matter expert'.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
But Burnham didn't START a war. She betrayed her captain and is a mutineer, but if she succeeded, then she might have averted a war. The only way for the war to not start is to kill T'Kuvma before he got the other Klingon houses involved, disgrace T'Kuvma, or not send any Starfleet reinforcements. T'Kuvma and his reinforcements destroying the Shenzhou without any Federation reinforcements would have been a dishonorable act and destroyed his ambitions. Once the Starfleet reinforcements came, the war started.
If there is anyone that is responsible for starting the war, it is T'Kuvma. If he failed to start the war in the 2nd episode, then he would have kept trying until he succeeded, was imprisoned, or killed. At least T'Kuvma is replaced by the outcast Voq where it will be difficult for him to bring others to his side. Having Voq in charge of the House of T'Kuvma will make it difficult for the Great Houses to unite under him. So the Great Houses will fight the Federation purely on their interests rather than as a united front.