The new Klingons are really beginning to irritate me. They're a lethargic bunch of disoriented scavengers, and cannibals to boot. Sure, it may not literally be cannibalism, but can you imagine Worf eating his enemies?! And I'm not talking about eating your enemy's heart, as a victory ritual, or to gain your opponent's strength in doing so or something, but simply because you're hungry. These Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic. So were the TOS Klingons, but those were so for budgetary reasons: the TRIBBLE Klingons are simply a conceptual failure. "False Klingons," as Teal'c would say.
Speaking of Stargate, dafuq is up with that rotating saucer?!?
EXEC1: "We need something round and rotating for our Spore Drive dial-up sequence."
EXEC2: "We could use the ship's saucer section?!"
SANE EXTRA: "Um, you guys realize this isn't Stargate, right?!"
HEAD EXEC: "Haha, we're from the JJ generation; making sense is irrelevant! If it moves, and has pretty colors, they'll gobble it up."
SANE EXTRA: "And another thing, the Spore Drive isn't a mechanic thingy, remember?!"
HEAD EXEC: "Fire that extra!"
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Knowing what you do about Klingons, do you believe they would respect an adversary - regardless of size and armament - that stood it's ground and perhaps fought (even if it were a hopeless fight) or one that cowardly ran away?
Historically they would show some degree of respect.
We've 'seen' evidence of this, as per 'Yesterday's Enterprise' - Narendra III and the sacrfice the Enterprise-C made, engaging in a fight in which it had absolutely no hope of winning against four Romulan Warbirds in an effort to protect a colony. Something the Klingons considered to be an act of honor and resulted in relatively good relations between the two powers by the time of TNG.
Very true, Klingons will not respect you if you turn and run in a fight. If they had tried to flee at the battle the Klinks would have run them down like a pack of dogs chasing a wounded rabbit.
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
I've only watched the first two episodes, but that should be sufficient for my main thought that I want to post here.
Captain Georgiou has to be one of the worst captains in Trek history. First, her officers tell her that the mission that Burnham proposes is too dangerous, that they won't be able to do anything once she enters the distortion field. Then, when something goes wrong, Georgiou starts barking orders at her crew while barely controlling her emotions.
She's even worse than Archer in this regard. Irrational, sacrificing countless ships and hundreds of lives just because the Klingons have something in Federation territory. Her first officer isn't much better. At the end, the goal was to abduct T'kuvma. Instead of getting to him after she shot him so he can be transported back, she runs for her captain whom she's told is already dead.
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
Same here. Thing is, even though the TOS Klingons looked kinda pathetic, it really didn't matter, as they were supposed to represent Russian 'Mongol' kinda rogue (scary to the West) sorta folks. In that role, the lousy face-painting did the job just fine. My point just was, that the TRIBBLE Klingons are very high-budget, but they don't feel Klingon at all.
I've only watched the first two episodes, but that should be sufficient for my main thought that I want to post here.
Captain Georgiou has to be one of the worst captains in Trek history. First, her officers tell her that the mission that Burnham proposes is too dangerous, that they won't be able to do anything once she enters the distortion field. Then, when something goes wrong, Georgiou starts barking orders at her crew while barely controlling her emotions.
She's even worse than Archer in this regard. Irrational, sacrificing countless ships and hundreds of lives just because the Klingons have something in Federation territory. Her first officer isn't much better. At the end, the goal was to abduct T'kuvma. Instead of getting to him after she shot him so he can be transported back, she runs for her captain whom she's told is already dead.
So she let her die for nothing basically.
Well, least she was probably tasty for the Klingons......
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
Same here. Thing is, even though the TOS Klingons looked kinda pathetic, it really didn't matter, as they were supposed to represent Russian 'Mongol' kinda rogue (scary to the West) sorta folks. In that role, the lousy face-painting did the job just fine. My point just was, that the TRIBBLE Klingons are very high-budget, but they don't feel Klingon at all.
The "NuWho" Sontarons and the Cybermen, and the Silurians are victim to that syndrome, too.
It isn't disingenuous because that is exactly what you're implying, but it doesn't jive with the dialogue. When did Sarek say she had to murder any Klingons? He just told her Vulcans learned to fire on the Klingons first and that worked for Vulcans. Sarek never says a single word about the Vulcans shooting to kill or blowing up anything. From the sound of it and what we know of Vulcans, the Vulcans fire warning shots because that's what the Klingons respect.
This is the most ludicrous thinking I have ever seen.
Klingons show up, murder the TRIBBLE out of your colonies and ships, and your response is "shoot to miss"? You expect me to believe that Klingons are going to just go "whoa, they fired 50 shots at missed us" and THAT is what stops them from murdering unarmed civilians? This makes the Klingons AND the Vulcans stupid.
The Kingons only respect you if you suck at fighting. What? How far down the stupid-hole are we going with this?
If the Vulcans were to go around willy nilly blowing up every Klingon ship they come in contact with, there would be no one for them to communicate with and it would only serve to further incite the Klingons for revenge.
The entire idea is stupid. How much "force" do you have to show for stubborn "warriors" (who merrily murder blatant non-combatants) to "respect" you? They. Are. Murderers. They are looking for REASONS to murder. It's the entire premise of the war with the Federation!
It is absolutely relevant.Had Georgiou decided to retreat until reinforcements arrived, there would have been no reason for Burnham to attempt mutiny to save the ship. She also was not looking for a fight - she was hoping that the "Vulcan Hello" would prevent one.
We were talking about Burnham's choice of actions. You then stated Georgiou's actions, which are irrelevant to the discussion. Burnham chose to shoot at the Klingons. It would have been much simpler if they had just GTFO to begin with, but at no point did anyone consider that. I guess a busted relay station and an asteroid field are worth the lives of Starfleet personnel.
So you understand this much, yet complain that what Sarek was saying about firing first as a sign of strength is not realistic and was a stupid idea?
It's all stupid. ALL OF IT. Feel free to pick which chunks of stupid you find more plausible. Myself, I'm going with the fact that the Shenzou, her crew, her captain, and Burnham are completely out of their element when it comes to shooting and should GTFO and leave it to professionals. If the Federation has no actual military (because space is a kind place where no one but Klingons murder people) then I have no idea. Mobbing the Klingons is still a better option than trying to go one on one vs a warship with your antiquated exploration vessel.
Knowing what you do about Klingons, do you believe they would respect an adversary - regardless of size and armament - that stood it's ground and perhaps fought (even if it were a hopeless fight) or one that cowardly ran away?
The only thing I know about the Discovery-era Klingons that they are murderers looking for a reason to murder.
We are shown that they murder people. Sarek says the Vulcans met the Klingons with violence and that resolved the issue (instead of escalating it, which is what I would assume Klingons of other eras would do). Since "violence" being the only way Discovery-era Klingons view strength (at least from non-Klingons), we have no idea "how much violence" is required to get the Klingons to respect you. No specific event is referenced to give us an example of how this should play out. You are forced to imagine a scenario where a violent race of murderers is impressed by being shot at.
What if the Shenzou's show of strength is "pathetic"? The Klingons are actively dimissive of the Shenzou's military capability. What if they just blast it to pieces? They murder "weakling" farmers and scientists, why not "weakling" explorers?
There are far too many unknowns here. Show us an example of how this "Vulcan Hello" is supposed to work. Or even re-write the Klingons so they are not orks.
Maybe we all tone it down a bit, please? I'd hate for this thread to get shot down before TRIBBLE does. :P
As for Sarek, didn't he say the Klingons actually destroyed the first Vulcan ship they encountered? If so, the Vulcans would not have been firing warning shots, after that. Which, I haste to say, does not mean they would shoot-to-kill, per se, but hit them hard enough to realize they'd be destroyed when not retreating.
EDIT: AND WILL THE POWERS THAT BE PLEASE FIX THAT TRIBBLE EDIT BUG?!
To me it seems the whole 'should they have run or fired first or after getting fired upon' debate is largely a result of inconsistency in how the Klingons were portrayed as well throughout five decades of Trek.
Some of them were indeed just murderers who were looking for an excuse to murder in sometimes brutal ways (like that one Klingon in DS9 who bragged about him slowly killing a Benzite captain and beheading that same captain's helmsman). Others were more concerned about their culture, such as some of the Klingons in The Undiscovered Country.
There is no such thing as the 'right' response towards the Klingons as they all behaved very differently. Besides, Klingon honour is also very inconsistent. How many times have we seen the Klingons use their cloaks to ... tactically withdraw I guess? It's not necessarily true that withdrawing and regrouping to from an unified front would've been weak in the Klingon's eyes.
To me it seemed that they were more offended at the peace offering as they saw it as a sort of assimilation, the Federation trying to conquer the Empire through spreading its ideals.
So, assuming that there is no 'best reaction' towards Klingons, the specific situation here made that withdrawing may well have been the more logical and better option, there certainly wasn't anything to fight for in that binary system safe for some 'but they're in our space'-nonsense that seemed very un-Federational. If Georgiou was concerned about the Andorian colony nearby (and another important location that I couldn't figure out due to missing subtitles and all that) they could just have gone there.
I've only watched the first two episodes, but that should be sufficient for my main thought that I want to post here.
Captain Georgiou has to be one of the worst captains in Trek history. First, her officers tell her that the mission that Burnham proposes is too dangerous, that they won't be able to do anything once she enters the distortion field. T
One officer tells her that. Another officer thinks differently. The officer that tells her it is too dangerous is known to be extremely cautious and risk-averse. In addition, following that officer's suggestion would mean an end to an investigation that one might expect a Starfleet ship to continue, with no reason to assume that any other ship would be able to do it any better. She listens to the advice of her counsel, and decides for one of the presented options.
And you might remember that Kirk would often take actions that according to Spock's "math" were extremely unlikely to succeed.
And we learned in TNG that Starfleet officers are also trained to send officers onto missions that are explicitly dangerous and almost guaranteed to be deadly to accomplish.
The only risk in that mission was to whoever she would send on the fly-by. That is easily an acceptable risk if it reveals critical information about a potential threat to the Federation.
Irrational, sacrificing countless ships and hundreds of lives just because the Klingons have something in Federation territory.
They didn't know the artifact was Klingon, or what its purpose was. What they did know is that one of their satellites was damaged under suspicious circumstances. You really think that Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Janeway or Jellico would not have investigated this?
Can you really imagine this Star Trek story?
"Captain, we're detecting some anomaly!"
"Can we scan it?"
"Only under great difficulty and it might be dangerous."
"Okay, let's ignore it and warp us out of here."
THE END.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
Same here. Thing is, even though the TOS Klingons looked kinda pathetic, it really didn't matter, as they were supposed to represent Russian 'Mongol' kinda rogue (scary to the West) sorta folks. In that role, the lousy face-painting did the job just fine. My point just was, that the TRIBBLE Klingons are very high-budget, but they don't feel Klingon at all.
The "NuWho" Sontarons and the Cybermen, and the Silurians are victim to that syndrome, too.
We are shown that they murder people. Sarek says the Vulcans met the Klingons with violence and that resolved the issue (instead of escalating it, which is what I would assume Klingons of other eras would do). Since "violence" being the only way Discovery-era Klingons view strength (at least from non-Klingons), we have no idea "how much violence" is required to get the Klingons to respect you. No specific event is referenced to give us an example of how this should play out. You are forced to imagine a scenario where a violent race of murderers is impressed by being shot at.
What if the Shenzou's show of strength is "pathetic"? The Klingons are actively dimissive of the Shenzou's military capability. What if they just blast it to pieces? They murder "weakling" farmers and scientists, why not "weakling" explorers?
There are far too many unknowns here. Show us an example of how this "Vulcan Hello" is supposed to work. Or even re-write the Klingons so they are not orks.
Sarek left out the part about the Vulcans being much more powerful than the Klingons at the time. It is easy to forget, but Enterprise demonstrated that the Vulcans were clearly quite a bit more powerful than most of civilizations in the Alpha/Beta border region.
The "Vulcan Hello" was less about culture and more about establishing the pecking order. The Klingons for all their bluster were a second rate power in comparison. That is the reason why they backed down, and also why Sarek warned Burnham that it wouldn't work for the Federation. The power gap between the Federation and Klingons simply isn't large enough to intimidate them in that manner.
---
Edit: As for Georgiou's attitude towards Burnham... I think it is pretty well established that there was quite a bit of nepotism going on in that relationship. Burnham got the position as a favor between Georgiou and Sarek, everything else is colored by this fact. It is much like how the TNG crew bent over backwards to try and groom Wesley for great things, only to have him spit it back in their faces right before the show ended its run.
hese Klingons have no honor; they are not fierce warriors: heck, they can hardly even move. They're pathetic.
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
Same here. Thing is, even though the TOS Klingons looked kinda pathetic, it really didn't matter, as they were supposed to represent Russian 'Mongol' kinda rogue (scary to the West) sorta folks. In that role, the lousy face-painting did the job just fine. My point just was, that the TRIBBLE Klingons are very high-budget, but they don't feel Klingon at all.
The "NuWho" Sontarons and the Cybermen, and the Silurians are victim to that syndrome, too.
Every Star Trek series was different than the previous one (with the exception of TOS, of course, as there was no previous to that one, lol) and was made for younger/different audiences, whether we like it or not. Inconsistencies across series is also nothing new and don't forget that the first season was never the strongest one for ANY series.
Not sure there is any room to put Shatner's Kirk into the series unless it's through recycled footage, cgi manipulation of a person in a special suit and voice manipulation like what Disney did with Tarkin in Rogue One. Most of Kirk's history is filled with his time on the Enterprise over the many years he served leading directly to the Nexus and his death. If his likeness is to be used as a Lieutenant it would be the only way really.
For a much older Shatner, he would have to be an alternate reality Kirk, one who survived where Picard died in a role reversal on Soran. He could be this old man with a walking stick coming back to the past to teach Burnham a few things about being an officer.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
“So here’s this aging athlete, who isn’t [what] he was in his twenties and thirties. Still carries himself grandly and has a sense of humor and all, but he’s not the athlete he was. What would Captain Kirk be like 50 years later, with the sagacity of mind, and yet the body doesn’t do what he wants it to do? I mean, it’s an interesting story.”
That actually could be interesting. Think of something along the lines of Will Munny in "Unforgiven".
"What would Captain Kirk be like 50 years later, with the sagacity of mind, and yet the body doesn’t do what he wants it to do?"
He'd probably be heading a Law firm, still trying to bang everyone, and talking about TRIBBLE all the time.
Not sure there is any room to put Shatner's Kirk into the series unless it's through recycled footage, cgi manipulation of a person in a special suit and voice manipulation like what Disney did with Tarkin in Rogue One. Most of Kirk's history is filled with his time on the Enterprise over the many years he served leading directly to the Nexus and his death. If his likeness is to be used as a Lieutenant it would be the only way really.
For a much older Shatner, he would have to be an alternate reality Kirk, one who survived where Picard died in a role reversal on Soran. He could be this old man with a walking stick coming back to the past to teach Burnham a few things about being an officer.
Or on planet, having a cabin, and spending his time with a fishing pole in one hand, and a Saurian brandy in the other.
the biggest problem would be explaining the age of Kirk which drove my initial thoughts. I can only see an alternate timeline playing out or potentially the Nexus, where it pulled Kirk's life force into it up on death and he still lives there without his body in complete paradise.
It means getting Burnham into a point where it can happen.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
the biggest problem would be explaining the age of Kirk which drove my initial thoughts. I can only see an alternate timeline playing out or potentially the Nexus, where it pulled Kirk's life force into it up on death and he still lives there without his body in complete paradise.
No part of Kirk is in the Nexus anymore. He left. Guinan was there by virtue of a transporter accident.
We don't know that for certain. What we know is that Kirk died and not a lot more and we know even less on the mechanics of the nexus or how it works.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Speaking of Stargate, dafuq is up with that rotating saucer?!?
EXEC1: "We need something round and rotating for our Spore Drive dial-up sequence."
EXEC2: "We could use the ship's saucer section?!"
SANE EXTRA: "Um, you guys realize this isn't Stargate, right?!"
HEAD EXEC: "Haha, we're from the JJ generation; making sense is irrelevant! If it moves, and has pretty colors, they'll gobble it up."
SANE EXTRA: "And another thing, the Spore Drive isn't a mechanic thingy, remember?!"
HEAD EXEC: "Fire that extra!"
They are the "Joan Rivers" or "Jim Ross" Klingons.
And I personally had no problem with TOS Klingons at all. I liked quite a few of them.
Yes, TOS Klingons were fine, but you could see their make-up was rather low-budget. TRIBBLE Klingons, however, are high-budget, but low-quality personalities. They're not even plausible Klingons.
My character Tsin'xing
Even low budget can be fine. You're talking to a classic Doctor Who fan girl, Mei. ;3
Captain Georgiou has to be one of the worst captains in Trek history. First, her officers tell her that the mission that Burnham proposes is too dangerous, that they won't be able to do anything once she enters the distortion field. Then, when something goes wrong, Georgiou starts barking orders at her crew while barely controlling her emotions.
She's even worse than Archer in this regard. Irrational, sacrificing countless ships and hundreds of lives just because the Klingons have something in Federation territory. Her first officer isn't much better. At the end, the goal was to abduct T'kuvma. Instead of getting to him after she shot him so he can be transported back, she runs for her captain whom she's told is already dead.
So she let her die for nothing basically.
Same here.
Well, least she was probably tasty for the Klingons......
The "NuWho" Sontarons and the Cybermen, and the Silurians are victim to that syndrome, too.
Klingons show up, murder the TRIBBLE out of your colonies and ships, and your response is "shoot to miss"? You expect me to believe that Klingons are going to just go "whoa, they fired 50 shots at missed us" and THAT is what stops them from murdering unarmed civilians? This makes the Klingons AND the Vulcans stupid.
The Kingons only respect you if you suck at fighting. What? How far down the stupid-hole are we going with this? The entire idea is stupid. How much "force" do you have to show for stubborn "warriors" (who merrily murder blatant non-combatants) to "respect" you? They. Are. Murderers. They are looking for REASONS to murder. It's the entire premise of the war with the Federation! I expect him to condemn it, as Vulcans view revenge of any kind to be illogical and antithetical to their beliefs. Also the being pacifists thing. We were talking about Burnham's choice of actions. You then stated Georgiou's actions, which are irrelevant to the discussion. Burnham chose to shoot at the Klingons. It would have been much simpler if they had just GTFO to begin with, but at no point did anyone consider that. I guess a busted relay station and an asteroid field are worth the lives of Starfleet personnel. It's all stupid. ALL OF IT. Feel free to pick which chunks of stupid you find more plausible. Myself, I'm going with the fact that the Shenzou, her crew, her captain, and Burnham are completely out of their element when it comes to shooting and should GTFO and leave it to professionals. If the Federation has no actual military (because space is a kind place where no one but Klingons murder people) then I have no idea. Mobbing the Klingons is still a better option than trying to go one on one vs a warship with your antiquated exploration vessel. The only thing I know about the Discovery-era Klingons that they are murderers looking for a reason to murder.
We are shown that they murder people. Sarek says the Vulcans met the Klingons with violence and that resolved the issue (instead of escalating it, which is what I would assume Klingons of other eras would do). Since "violence" being the only way Discovery-era Klingons view strength (at least from non-Klingons), we have no idea "how much violence" is required to get the Klingons to respect you. No specific event is referenced to give us an example of how this should play out. You are forced to imagine a scenario where a violent race of murderers is impressed by being shot at.
What if the Shenzou's show of strength is "pathetic"? The Klingons are actively dimissive of the Shenzou's military capability. What if they just blast it to pieces? They murder "weakling" farmers and scientists, why not "weakling" explorers?
There are far too many unknowns here. Show us an example of how this "Vulcan Hello" is supposed to work. Or even re-write the Klingons so they are not orks.
As for Sarek, didn't he say the Klingons actually destroyed the first Vulcan ship they encountered? If so, the Vulcans would not have been firing warning shots, after that. Which, I haste to say, does not mean they would shoot-to-kill, per se, but hit them hard enough to realize they'd be destroyed when not retreating.
EDIT: AND WILL THE POWERS THAT BE PLEASE FIX THAT TRIBBLE EDIT BUG?!
Some of them were indeed just murderers who were looking for an excuse to murder in sometimes brutal ways (like that one Klingon in DS9 who bragged about him slowly killing a Benzite captain and beheading that same captain's helmsman). Others were more concerned about their culture, such as some of the Klingons in The Undiscovered Country.
There is no such thing as the 'right' response towards the Klingons as they all behaved very differently. Besides, Klingon honour is also very inconsistent. How many times have we seen the Klingons use their cloaks to ... tactically withdraw I guess? It's not necessarily true that withdrawing and regrouping to from an unified front would've been weak in the Klingon's eyes.
To me it seemed that they were more offended at the peace offering as they saw it as a sort of assimilation, the Federation trying to conquer the Empire through spreading its ideals.
So, assuming that there is no 'best reaction' towards Klingons, the specific situation here made that withdrawing may well have been the more logical and better option, there certainly wasn't anything to fight for in that binary system safe for some 'but they're in our space'-nonsense that seemed very un-Federational. If Georgiou was concerned about the Andorian colony nearby (and another important location that I couldn't figure out due to missing subtitles and all that) they could just have gone there.
And you might remember that Kirk would often take actions that according to Spock's "math" were extremely unlikely to succeed.
And we learned in TNG that Starfleet officers are also trained to send officers onto missions that are explicitly dangerous and almost guaranteed to be deadly to accomplish.
The only risk in that mission was to whoever she would send on the fly-by. That is easily an acceptable risk if it reveals critical information about a potential threat to the Federation.
They didn't know the artifact was Klingon, or what its purpose was. What they did know is that one of their satellites was damaged under suspicious circumstances. You really think that Picard, Kirk, Sisko, Janeway or Jellico would not have investigated this?
Can you really imagine this Star Trek story?
"Captain, we're detecting some anomaly!"
"Can we scan it?"
"Only under great difficulty and it might be dangerous."
"Okay, let's ignore it and warp us out of here."
THE END.
Hmm... doesn't look like it.
My character Tsin'xing
Sarek left out the part about the Vulcans being much more powerful than the Klingons at the time. It is easy to forget, but Enterprise demonstrated that the Vulcans were clearly quite a bit more powerful than most of civilizations in the Alpha/Beta border region.
The "Vulcan Hello" was less about culture and more about establishing the pecking order. The Klingons for all their bluster were a second rate power in comparison. That is the reason why they backed down, and also why Sarek warned Burnham that it wouldn't work for the Federation. The power gap between the Federation and Klingons simply isn't large enough to intimidate them in that manner.
---
Edit: As for Georgiou's attitude towards Burnham... I think it is pretty well established that there was quite a bit of nepotism going on in that relationship. Burnham got the position as a favor between Georgiou and Sarek, everything else is colored by this fact. It is much like how the TNG crew bent over backwards to try and groom Wesley for great things, only to have him spit it back in their faces right before the show ended its run.
Turned them into catch phrase shouting, zulu pygmys looking like a Marvel Super Hero.
For a much older Shatner, he would have to be an alternate reality Kirk, one who survived where Picard died in a role reversal on Soran. He could be this old man with a walking stick coming back to the past to teach Burnham a few things about being an officer.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"What would Captain Kirk be like 50 years later, with the sagacity of mind, and yet the body doesn’t do what he wants it to do?"
He'd probably be heading a Law firm, still trying to bang everyone, and talking about TRIBBLE all the time.
Or on planet, having a cabin, and spending his time with a fishing pole in one hand, and a Saurian brandy in the other.
It means getting Burnham into a point where it can happen.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We don't know that for certain. What we know is that Kirk died and not a lot more and we know even less on the mechanics of the nexus or how it works.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Thats her take on the subject, but thats all she knows. Guinan doesn't give a great deal of information on exactly what it is.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.