> @patrickngo said:
> sure it would. In fact, it must happen, and soon, because otherwise, there's a continuity/universe-breaking situation where you have to explain how these wooden, expressionless, reptiliod-orkling Klingons are gone by the time of Kang, Koloth, and Kor (ten years from now), and why they don't ever appear again, even centuries later, even a century earlier, yet they're supposed to be the baseline of the race.
>
> there HAS TO BE a genocide to eliminate a phenotype that important in the long term. the hairless Klingons have to die out, by definition, this is going to have to happen by conscious actions of someone, so that makes it Genocide, and since this is the "Prime" universe instead of a parallel, that means someone has to do, unleash, or create something that murders them all, male, female, and child, and erases their genetic legacy from the Empire..
Or, the showrunners decided to just dump that stupid Augment virus plot and retcon the Klingons' appearance for the umpteenth time and say "we changed 'em because we felt like it, and Roddenberry did it first".
See, I thought the Augment virus storyline was rather clever, retconing it out completely would just be another middle finger to us Enterprise fans like the "series finale" was.
To be honest, it feels like (to me anyway) that they're going out of their way to make him the polar oposite of Captain Kirk.
Yes. The writers and the actor himself says his character is anti-Kirk and anti-Picard. He got into a spat with William Shatner on Twitter over the "context" of what he said in the past. It's all good now though, because Isaacs finished an interview where he "kissed Kirk's @ss" (his words).
On a side not, I'm ok with him portraying an "unlikable character", but his Twitter feed makes everything seem so personal.
One exchange of tweets correcting the misreporting of a gossip rag is hardly a spat, and I'd quote what he said about people criticising the content of his feed but it'd never get through the censor
(Don't really bother following anyone tbh, just been on there via links on DSC news articles).
heh, one story idea I had was a universe where humans had a sort of cold war leading up to developing space flight. The factions in the cold war were each trying to get the most money they could out of exploiting the natural resources in space. After they started building colonies though, the war changed focus as some of the colonies started fighting Earth, which lead to Earth getting a few hundred thousand tons heavier as one of the colonial factions created an asteroid rain. that was only an interlude in the war while the factions paused to reorganize. It didn't actually wipe out any of the factions.
That sounds pretty much like the backstory to Gundam X. A spin-off of the original series, where instead of Earth Federation winning the One Year War the two sides pretty much decimated each other forcing themselves to rebuild their tattered societies for a decade or two.
With the benefit of hindsight I think it would have been interesting if Star Trek had combined the Terran Empire mirror universe concept with Space Seed. That the Botany Bay succeeded in making it to a distant planet and founded a new star faring civilization using a stash of preserved augment embryos (ala Enterprise).
---
As for Lorca being unlikable, isn't that kind of the point? You don't make your main character second in command unless the actual leader has some kind of problem.
CBS has given us all an TRIBBLE and the only way for us to get rid of this TRIBBLE is cancellation but sadly like some TRIBBLE's they can come back and in this case will be reruns.
- Don't like any of the new crew (Except the old Asian captain who unfortunately dies)
- Don't like the "nerdy" engineering girl on the Discovery, at all. Get a real actor in there. She's one of the worst actors I've ever seen in Trek. Every time she opened her mouth I cringed at how annoying and out of place she was.
- Don't like the way the Klingons look, like a bad "black face/gorilla" racial baiting gone wrong.
- Don't like the way Klingon ships looked.
- Don't like the way Discovery looks (maybe it'll grow on me but I doubt it)
- Don't like the set design and atmosphere (Felt more like BSG with Trek sound FX' thrown in then an actual Trek show)
- Some of the special effects were really cheesy... (Space suit scene - looks like something out of Speed Racer)
- Don't like the direction the plot is taking. It's highly unbelievable. And felt way too rushed.
- Don't like being beaten over the head with a SJW agenda at every turn. It's too much and makes the show seem like a platform for soap box'ers. Rather then an interesting sci fi/exploration show.
There's a lot I don't like here after 3 episodes....
Ep3 was one of the worst episodes of Trek I've ever seen.
I'm willing to give it a few more episodes but so far I'm really disappointed. I don't mind the SJW stuff if its done subtly and with discretion. But this was over the top, and they went out of their way at every opportunity to remind you of their agenda.
It was cringy af and really unnecessary in most instances. Killed the mood of the show for me.
One of the great things about TOS was that they were very progressive at the time... but didn't feel the need to rub the viewers face in it at every opportunity.
They just went about their business, and the crews actions spoke louder then words. After a time, respect was earned for each member despite their race or differences.
I don't know what the deal with the TRIBBLE writers are, but maybe they think the viewers are idiots, and cant read between lines or something. I dunno, but the hand holding through obvious SJW messaging here was putrid and way too frequent for my taste.
It really detracts from the show imho.
I hope they see the fan reactions and pull back from that kind of over-the-top messaging. Or at least not be so obvious and frequent about it.
heh, one story idea I had was a universe where humans had a sort of cold war leading up to developing space flight. The factions in the cold war were each trying to get the most money they could out of exploiting the natural resources in space. After they started building colonies though, the war changed focus as some of the colonies started fighting Earth, which lead to Earth getting a few hundred thousand tons heavier as one of the colonial factions created an asteroid rain. that was only an interlude in the war while the factions paused to reorganize. It didn't actually wipe out any of the factions.
That sounds pretty much like the backstory to Gundam X. A spin-off of the original series, where instead of Earth Federation winning the One Year War the two sides pretty much decimated each other forcing themselves to rebuild their tattered societies for a decade or two.
Did that one have the people settle on dozens of planets in assorted solar systems? In that idea I had the various factions didn't go to war until they'd already built production bases outside Sol system. Part of why some of the colonial factions were willing to bomb Earth to an uninhabitable mass of lava was that none of them were born there or had even seen the planet in person. Their ancestors had, but for some of them that was little more than a fairy tale.
I remember the G-Gundam version. But in it, while the space colonies had most of the money and resources, people still lived on Earth.
^^ *sees complaints about anvilicious morals, wonders what show poster was watching when Kirk and Picard were speechifying with all the subtlety of a boxcar dropped from orbit*
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Man, all this social justice and liberal agenda in my Star Trek. How did that happen?
I wish it was still like back in the day when they discussed completely absurd stories like that with he black/white on white/black genocidal conflict, or patriotic stories like when they find a planet where they have forgotten the US Constitution but rediscover it conveniently when the glorious US starship is visiting their world.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
"‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Almost Doubled CBS All Access Mobile Subscription Revenue"
uh, no frickin' doi, it's a Star Trek series, so many of us Trekkies went into this wanting to have hope and to give the series a shot. A lot of us are still holding out hope that the series will improve and this is just a slow start.
But honestly, a big name show doubling their sub revenue when a lot of people didn't even know the service existed until the TRIBBLE premiere? That's silly.
Like saying "our sales doubled when we started selling brand-name foods at our recently opened-but-not-really-advertised-until-now grocery store". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
Well the big difference there is that the characters on the Orville solved the problem through diplomatic means rather than attempted murder. Asking the ships lone non-Union member to act as a third party intermediary to negotiate the release of the two officers without violence is very much in keeping with Star Trek's overall message.
This stands in stark contrast to Burnham's kill'em all approach to Klingon contact. Rather than work through the problem constructively she instead focused on rationalizing her fight-flight fear reaction to the point of ignoring everyone else around her who was trying to help.
Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
Well the big difference there is that the characters on the Orville solved the problem through diplomatic means rather than attempted murder. Asking the ships lone non-Union member to act as a third party intermediary to negotiate the release of the two officers without violence is very much in keeping with Star Trek's overall message.
This stands in stark contrast to Burnham's kill'em all approach to Klingon contact. Rather than work through the problem constructively she instead focused on rationalizing her fight-flight fear reaction to the point of ignoring everyone else around her who was trying to help.
Yep. Orville seems more Trek than Trek is today.
I'm not against breaking rules...if it works and is right. James Doohan, whilst in the military directly disobeys orders from a superior, because the orders would have results in innocents getting killed. James was found to be in the right by the brass.
And remember Data's actions in Redemption part 2. So far, Burnham, to me.....an old redneck saying some of the good ole boys here in the country would use for Burnham is "Her bread's not quite done". Sorta like trusting Dracula to give a dude a shave.
And you're neglecting that Burnham is actually being TREATED as being in the wrong for her actions, by herself included. Even Lorca is morally ambiguous at this point.
What, that trigger you? To have a character actually do something wrong and face serious consequences for it?
That DSC is daring to do something marginally original with Star Trek instead of just being the third TNG knockoff in a row (except with d*ck jokes this time) is something to applaud.
/Deathtotheposteatingmonster
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @lordrezeon said: > starswordc wrote: » > > Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION? > > > > > Well the big difference there is that the characters on the Orville solved the problem through diplomatic means rather than attempted murder. Asking the ships lone non-Union member to act as a third party intermediary to negotiate the release of the two officers without violence is very much in keeping with Star Trek's overall message.
Hardly. They went in covertly, flying a false flag. It was only after they were stonewalled that they tried negotiating in good faith. It was at best Plan C, Plan A being the armed rescue that aforementioned fleet admiral shot down.
> This stands in stark contrast to Burnham's kill'em all approach to Klingon contact. Rather than work through the problem constructively she instead focused on rationalizing her fight-flight fear reaction to the point of ignoring everyone else around her who was trying to help.
And as it turns out, she wasn't supposed to be the one in the right. Huh. Funny how that works.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Oh, and about one-note villains? T'Kuvma alone gets considerably more development than the Krill in their entirety. Besides the captain in the pilot they're literally just targets to shoot so far. And the heroes' plan in the pilot? Relied entirely on A: the Krill captain not blasting them out of space after getting what he wanted, and B: being stupid enough to test the techtech on his ship instead of taking it back to base.
But it's a comedy and not actually a Star Trek show so it's apparently more Trek than the actual Trek of its era.
Now, me, I'm not giving it a pass because it's a comedy (and I don't think it really qualifies; at BEST it's a dramedy): even comedies need to develop their characters. I'm letting it slide for the moment because they've only aired four episodes out of (I'm guessing) twenty.
Hey, funny thing: we're only three episodes into DSC.
Even funnier thing: how I'm judging them by the same standard as any Star Trek show, on what they're actually depicting, instead of hunting around for ways to justify a decision I made about the show months ago. (For the record, I went into The Orville expecting to hate it, but I actually enjoy it.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
See, I thought the Augment virus storyline was rather clever, retconing it out completely would just be another middle finger to us Enterprise fans like the "series finale" was.
On a side not, I'm ok with him portraying an "unlikable character", but his Twitter feed makes everything seem so personal.
(Don't really bother following anyone tbh, just been on there via links on DSC news articles).
For once you and me agree on something. V |^_^\
That sounds pretty much like the backstory to Gundam X. A spin-off of the original series, where instead of Earth Federation winning the One Year War the two sides pretty much decimated each other forcing themselves to rebuild their tattered societies for a decade or two.
With the benefit of hindsight I think it would have been interesting if Star Trek had combined the Terran Empire mirror universe concept with Space Seed. That the Botany Bay succeeded in making it to a distant planet and founded a new star faring civilization using a stash of preserved augment embryos (ala Enterprise).
---
As for Lorca being unlikable, isn't that kind of the point? You don't make your main character second in command unless the actual leader has some kind of problem.
Is it even possible to have a super-hot Discovery Klingon babe?
Watched all 3 episodes last night.
- Don't like any of the new crew (Except the old Asian captain who unfortunately dies)
- Don't like the "nerdy" engineering girl on the Discovery, at all. Get a real actor in there. She's one of the worst actors I've ever seen in Trek. Every time she opened her mouth I cringed at how annoying and out of place she was.
- Don't like the way the Klingons look, like a bad "black face/gorilla" racial baiting gone wrong.
- Don't like the way Klingon ships looked.
- Don't like the way Discovery looks (maybe it'll grow on me but I doubt it)
- Don't like the set design and atmosphere (Felt more like BSG with Trek sound FX' thrown in then an actual Trek show)
- Some of the special effects were really cheesy... (Space suit scene - looks like something out of Speed Racer)
- Don't like the direction the plot is taking. It's highly unbelievable. And felt way too rushed.
- Don't like being beaten over the head with a SJW agenda at every turn. It's too much and makes the show seem like a platform for soap box'ers. Rather then an interesting sci fi/exploration show.
There's a lot I don't like here after 3 episodes....
Ep3 was one of the worst episodes of Trek I've ever seen.
I'm willing to give it a few more episodes but so far I'm really disappointed. I don't mind the SJW stuff if its done subtly and with discretion. But this was over the top, and they went out of their way at every opportunity to remind you of their agenda.
It was cringy af and really unnecessary in most instances. Killed the mood of the show for me.
One of the great things about TOS was that they were very progressive at the time... but didn't feel the need to rub the viewers face in it at every opportunity.
They just went about their business, and the crews actions spoke louder then words. After a time, respect was earned for each member despite their race or differences.
I don't know what the deal with the TRIBBLE writers are, but maybe they think the viewers are idiots, and cant read between lines or something. I dunno, but the hand holding through obvious SJW messaging here was putrid and way too frequent for my taste.
It really detracts from the show imho.
I hope they see the fan reactions and pull back from that kind of over-the-top messaging. Or at least not be so obvious and frequent about it.
I remember the G-Gundam version. But in it, while the space colonies had most of the money and resources, people still lived on Earth.
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I wish it was still like back in the day when they discussed completely absurd stories like that with he black/white on white/black genocidal conflict, or patriotic stories like when they find a planet where they have forgotten the US Constitution but rediscover it conveniently when the glorious US starship is visiting their world.
"‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Almost Doubled CBS All Access Mobile Subscription Revenue"
uh, no frickin' doi, it's a Star Trek series, so many of us Trekkies went into this wanting to have hope and to give the series a shot. A lot of us are still holding out hope that the series will improve and this is just a slow start.
But honestly, a big name show doubling their sub revenue when a lot of people didn't even know the service existed until the TRIBBLE premiere? That's silly.
Like saying "our sales doubled when we started selling brand-name foods at our recently opened-but-not-really-advertised-until-now grocery store". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a comedy, it gets a pass on everything
Well the big difference there is that the characters on the Orville solved the problem through diplomatic means rather than attempted murder. Asking the ships lone non-Union member to act as a third party intermediary to negotiate the release of the two officers without violence is very much in keeping with Star Trek's overall message.
This stands in stark contrast to Burnham's kill'em all approach to Klingon contact. Rather than work through the problem constructively she instead focused on rationalizing her fight-flight fear reaction to the point of ignoring everyone else around her who was trying to help.
Yep. Orville seems more Trek than Trek is today.
I'm not against breaking rules...if it works and is right. James Doohan, whilst in the military directly disobeys orders from a superior, because the orders would have results in innocents getting killed. James was found to be in the right by the brass.
And remember Data's actions in Redemption part 2. So far, Burnham, to me.....an old redneck saying some of the good ole boys here in the country would use for Burnham is "Her bread's not quite done". Sorta like trusting Dracula to give a dude a shave.
What, that trigger you? To have a character actually do something wrong and face serious consequences for it?
That DSC is daring to do something marginally original with Star Trek instead of just being the third TNG knockoff in a row (except with d*ck jokes this time) is something to applaud.
/Deathtotheposteatingmonster
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
> starswordc wrote: »
>
> Meanwhile, over on The Orville which half of you are throwing out as more Trek than actual Trek, in the second episode the young pretty security chief disobeys a direct order from a five-star admiral and violates a foreign state's space, basically after buckling under peer pressure. And gets a medal. Unprofessional behavior? How about the captain of the ship blathering about the contents of his intestines ON THE BRIDGE? Unlikeable characters? How about a science officer who openly refers to his crewmates as being of inferior races, WHICH IS USED AS A PLOT POINT DURING AFOREMENTIONED ILLEGAL MISSION?
>
>
>
>
> Well the big difference there is that the characters on the Orville solved the problem through diplomatic means rather than attempted murder. Asking the ships lone non-Union member to act as a third party intermediary to negotiate the release of the two officers without violence is very much in keeping with Star Trek's overall message.
Hardly. They went in covertly, flying a false flag. It was only after they were stonewalled that they tried negotiating in good faith. It was at best Plan C, Plan A being the armed rescue that aforementioned fleet admiral shot down.
> This stands in stark contrast to Burnham's kill'em all approach to Klingon contact. Rather than work through the problem constructively she instead focused on rationalizing her fight-flight fear reaction to the point of ignoring everyone else around her who was trying to help.
And as it turns out, she wasn't supposed to be the one in the right. Huh. Funny how that works.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But it's a comedy and not actually a Star Trek show so it's apparently more Trek than the actual Trek of its era.
Now, me, I'm not giving it a pass because it's a comedy (and I don't think it really qualifies; at BEST it's a dramedy): even comedies need to develop their characters. I'm letting it slide for the moment because they've only aired four episodes out of (I'm guessing) twenty.
Hey, funny thing: we're only three episodes into DSC.
Even funnier thing: how I'm judging them by the same standard as any Star Trek show, on what they're actually depicting, instead of hunting around for ways to justify a decision I made about the show months ago. (For the record, I went into The Orville expecting to hate it, but I actually enjoy it.)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/