Star Trek has always, always been about social commentary and moralizing delivered with all the subtlety of a brick to the head. Things got a little more nuanced once Gene was no longer in charge, but...
War is Bad, Drugs are Bad, Pollution is Bad, Racism is Bad, Sexism is Hoo Check Out The Legs on That One.
(The last is a significant blind spot of all installments, which you can mostly attribute to the culture surrounding TV and movie production, marketing and consumption from the 60s to the present day. )
Actually, that can be chalked up to the difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminism. Those outfits? The miniskirt in particular? Those things were considered EMPOWERING, and the symbolic uniform of the liberated woman. There was this little thing going on called the Sexual Revolution, and it was all about women breaking free from the chains of prudish, controlling conservative moral standards. In those days, hemlines might as well have been battle lines, with the old guard fighting for modest garments and the progressive feminists fighting for their freedom to flaunt their womanhood and own their sexuality. "I Am Woman, Hear Me ROAR!" was the anthem. Nudism was a radical progressive ideal. Sexual freedom, including the right and ability to choose casual sex and to avoid marriage and motherhood and the role of homemaker and to pursue a career, those things were goals the feminist movement saw as strategic victory conditions.
Somewhere along the line, the train jumped the rails and the feminist movement embraced a level of sexual prudishness that would make Pat Robertson and his Moral Majority church brigade praise their lord for their victory. Where it all went wrong I still don't quite know, but I hope one day the pendulum swings back the other way. We could use another Sexual Revolution, and to guard it better next time. Puritanism belongs in the dustbin of history.
Probably the Soros/Rockefeller camps....sick one section of society on another, create infighting, oppression of stuff, divide and conquer, and so on.
Not to derail the topic anymore then it has, but it went wrong the moment the majority of people in the first world nations stopped having any real issues to deal with due to things like racism and gender roles being effectively eliminated as much as they will ever be, and thus, had nothing to actually complain about besides pointless trivial matters.
I consider that a strong statement. Yes, many issues on the table today are "luxury issues" others would like to have. But neither racism nor gender roles are resolved topics, and I doubt they are "as much eliminated as they will ever be".
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
With respect, I strongly doubt that Bill Thiess' (in)famous costumes for the female guest stars of TOS, or Gene having "fittings" and/or "auditions" of same in his office - or, in later eras, Jeri Ryan being brought on VOY to provide eye candy in a catsuit before they (and we) discovered damn, she can act too, or the aforementioned gratuitous decontamination scenes of ENT, or Alice Eve as Carol Marcus stripping to her skivvies for no good reason (save the obvious), had anything to do with feminism or empowerment. IMO, it has much more to do with what our society excuses and dismisses with the (horrible) statement that "boys will be boys". (lol objectification, also men can't and shouldn't be expected to even try to control their urges/impulses.)
With respect, I strongly doubt that Bill Thiess' (in)famous costumes for the female guest stars of TOS, or Gene having "fittings" and/or "auditions" of same in his office - or, in later eras, Jeri Ryan being brought on VOY to provide eye candy in a catsuit before they (and we) discovered damn, she can act too, or the aforementioned gratuitous decontamination scenes of ENT, or Alice Eve as Carol Marcus stripping to her skivvies for no good reason (save the obvious), had anything to do with feminism or empowerment. IMO, it has much more to do with what our society excuses and dismisses with the (horrible) statement that "boys will be boys". (lol objectification)
With respect, I strongly doubt that Bill Thiess' (in)famous costumes for the female guest stars of TOS, or Gene having "fittings" and/or "auditions" of same in his office - or, in later eras, Jeri Ryan being brought on VOY to provide eye candy in a catsuit before they (and we) discovered damn, she can act too, or the aforementioned gratuitous decontamination scenes of ENT, or Alice Eve as Carol Marcus stripping to her skivvies for no good reason (save the obvious), had anything to do with feminism or empowerment. IMO, it has much more to do with what our society excuses and dismisses with the (horrible) statement that "boys will be boys". (lol objectification, also men can't and shouldn't be expected to even try to control their urges/impulses.)
I heard that. Always thought Seven's outfit was only missing the stripper pole to make it complete.
As to the new episode -
"Hey, gang! We're going to use Captain Planet as the plotline for the new Featured Episode! It will be uuge! UUUGE, I tell you!"
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Why? The Austrian president recently said women might be required to wear headscarves - and he's far left! Could be 'ultra-conservative' attire will be the way of the future.
Star Trek has always, always been about social commentary and moralizing delivered with all the subtlety of a brick to the head. Things got a little more nuanced once Gene was no longer in charge, but...
War is Bad, Drugs are Bad, Pollution is Bad, Racism is Bad, Sexism is Hoo Check Out The Legs on That One.
(The last is a significant blind spot of all installments, which you can mostly attribute to the culture surrounding TV and movie production, marketing and consumption from the 60s to the present day. )
Actually, that can be chalked up to the difference between 2nd and 3rd wave feminism. Those outfits? The miniskirt in particular? Those things were considered EMPOWERING, and the symbolic uniform of the liberated woman. There was this little thing going on called the Sexual Revolution, and it was all about women breaking free from the chains of prudish, controlling conservative moral standards. In those days, hemlines might as well have been battle lines, with the old guard fighting for modest garments and the progressive feminists fighting for their freedom to flaunt their womanhood and own their sexuality. "I Am Woman, Hear Me ROAR!" was the anthem. Nudism was a radical progressive ideal. Sexual freedom, including the right and ability to choose casual sex and to avoid marriage and motherhood and the role of homemaker and to pursue a career, those things were goals the feminist movement saw as strategic victory conditions.
Somewhere along the line, the train jumped the rails and the feminist movement embraced a level of sexual prudishness that would make Pat Robertson and his Moral Majority church brigade praise their lord for their victory. Where it all went wrong I still don't quite know, but I hope one day the pendulum swings back the other way. We could use another Sexual Revolution, and to guard it better next time. Puritanism belongs in the dustbin of history.
Good stuff... let me put it this way, it flowed well, compared to some of the Delta missions that just dragged, so far the efforts from years 12 and 13 are entertaining, and not a grind.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Overlooking the whole double standard of a video game company pushing an environmental message (despite video games being a complete luxury and a waste of resources and electricity), it seems like there is a much bigger moral issue in the Star Trek universe than pollution, especially as it can be wiped away with a magic wand of protomatter.
Slavery. How many other games are there out there where you can buy and sell slaves? And for that matter, the Federation is essentially a tacit accomplice to slavery, willing to ally with governments who practice it merely out of convenience. In the real world, the British Empire took a stand against slavery, ordering its military vessels to capture any slave ships and free the slaves. They also refused to militarily help countries that practiced slavery, even when they considered it to be in their interest, most notably not helping the South during the American Civil War.
Shouldn't the Federation be expected to do the same?
And this is just as timely as any Trump comparison, as there are people (mostly women) still being sold as slaves today. Instead, Star Trek uses sex slaves as sort of hur, hurh, isn't that sexy, sort of thing. When it's in fact an atrocity.
And it would also be great if they could do a mission about the evils of gambling, and the exploiting of people with mental compulsions that make them prone to gambling and thus spending lots of money they probably can't afford, simply because they have a condition that compels them to.
> @somtaawkhar said: > The only race the Federation is even remotely associated with that practices slavery is the Orions via their alliance with the Klingon Empire. > > And both the Klingon Empire and the Federation fight against Orion Syndicate slavery operations. I mean, we even outright capture or kill the Syndicate 2nd in command during the Wasteland arc. > > Not to mention the fight against the Breen slavers trying to enslave the Deferi in the Breen Invasion arc.
I think the poster is referring to the KDF DOFFing missions of capturing prisoners and then sending them in labour camps or selling them off to slavers. But it should be noted that DOFF missions are basically non canonical to STO as most of them are during the first chapter and operate on the concept of war between the factions. The story itself doesn't support this angle any more but DOFFing hasn't been updated since release of the system and feels currently like all the other game systems that were ultimately removed due to lack of development.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
This is true, as so many with money and power use their money and power to keep what they have and gain more of it. Too many entrenched interests fight the future tooth and nail. On the other hand, sometimes capitalism works and disruptive industries win because the economic advantage is insurmountable. We're well on our way to that tipping point for green energy and electric cars, for example.
what do you expect? For businesses to be run by philanthropists who are devoted to making the world a better place for everyone? Yeah, doesn't really work that way. Billionaires got that way by running the highest profit margins that they can get away with. Labels like "100% non-GMO corn" have absolutely nothing to do with product quality and are more about making things look better than they really are. "Dolphin-safe" tuna is another big one since it doesn't really affect the profit margin, except as a PR stunt.
The dialogue is usually where Star Trek Online shines but was extremely weak in this episode. Kuumaarke for instance was radically different here. I understand that she's progressed since 'Sunrise' but her arrogant and demeaning tone upon her arrival in the city was out of character. That arrival was also odd. The Federation's diplomats are beamed to the wrong location and no security forces are sent to safely escort them?
My read on it was that Kuumaarke's reaction was exaggerated because these are Kentari - people she's been told stories of how greedy, xenophobic and short-sighted they were since she was born, and they are also the same species, or at least closely related. She does note that some Lukari still hold a grudge against the Kentari for the forced exile.
Makes me wonder what she means by "hold a grudge". Maybe those who do among her people actually want to kill off the Kentari.
As to to odd arrival, well, Kentari security forces being sent to safely escort them would be handled by the Minister of Defense, and his office likely provided the co-ordinates too, so I'd rather suspect we were met by security forces sent to handle us... part of the general 'yeah, it isn't a twist the minister of defense betrays you' thing.
Okay, it was missing one other thing - I'd have liked the opportunity to comment on the barrier/recognize it for what it really is:
"This isn't a random pile of garbage. It's a trap."
Yeah, when I got to it my eng immediately dropped turrets. I mean really... Kuumaarke almost spells it out. "The heat signatures on that stuff indicate it was placed recently" or something like that. Also, the "error" in transport coords at the beginning was suspect in and of itself. The Kentari didn't give use a full firing solution, that just gave us lat/long/alt. For that to be wrong indicates someone didn't want to give us the right coords.
I'm not sure if that's possible. So far in this discussion about a Star Trek Online episode we've had posts on: globalization, climate change, green energy, capitalism, different political ideologies, the sexual revolution, mini skirts, stripper poles, slavery, oh and a few comments on the actual episode. All in all making this a pretty interesting discussion.
Also well done for everyone staying civil.
RIP (2022) : Officer Wilbert Mota, Corporal Charles Galloway, Detective Jason Rivera, Officer Fernando
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
Umm, remember Genesis? The Lukari figured out how to make it stable, whereas the version the Federation developed was not, but beyond that flaw the technology existed back in Kirk's day. This is nothing new.
Finally, someone said this. For everything that was ever in the canon, it only makes sense that somewhere, some species has refined it. For whatever reason, the Tzenkethi, Lukari, and Kentari occupy space where protomatter is more readily available. To them it's like nuclear power is to us, albeit with science fantasy magical powers. Nuclear power for us will likely need to exist alongside renewables for a long time, but it can also destroy worlds.
It really is justified. The only remarkable aspect is the Borg haven't gotten it yet. (but that could be said about anything...they should have apexed long ago)
I'd rather be offered good stories and performances, and interesting situations and even moral dilemmas, instead of titillation.
(Yes, I realize this puts me at odds with my avatar. Then again, I'm not a cheat or a shyster, nor a peddler in flesh and/or drugs, in RL.)
IDK - I think there's NOTHING wrong with titillation in Star Trek. You can still have that AND a good story. It's interesting how people try to deny sex (and sex appeal) is, has, and will be a part of the Human experience for as long as we exist.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Seven of Nine mentions the Borg's memory from that far back is fragmentary, which, given how the Borg share data with each other, could only happen if lots of Borg were killed, suggesting they were getting their butts stomped by the other races.
Or some large scale catastrophy, like a significant part of their populace being wiped out by, say, some supernova.
IDK - I think there's NOTHING wrong with titillation in Star Trek. You can still have that AND a good story. It's interesting how people try to deny sex (and sex appeal) is, has, and will be a part of the Human experience for as long as we exist.
I am very open towards the concept of watching attractive women in various states of undress, or even nicely dressed. However, I don't want random TRIBBLE shoved in my face for no apparent reason other than TRIBBLE. And that is your second criterion, which often falls flat. Adding sexuality to a good story is not only having a good story and some sexuality, but it needs to be integrated and make sense in context.
Edit: the blanked out word is a common descriptor of two female body parts which show that humans are mammals.
Second edit: after editing, they aren't blanked out anymore?!
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I just wish it was more even. We should be able to see more shirtless men with muscles. Unfortunally we are always going to have the "we are appealing to the male 18-30 age demographic " when it comes to Star trek or any other franchise.
I am kidding, I rather have a good story with good actors.
When we take into account the fact that the Borg don't really make new technology themselves, in favor of just assimilating it from others, as well as the fact that most races we see in Trek lore are less advanced then the Federation, it's really not surprising that the Borg haven't apexed. Most species the Borg assimilate are inferior in technology to whatever they already have, and just serve as a means to boost numbers.
Yes, and no. The Borg do innovate in order to merge disparate technologies with each other. Then there's Omega and the Iconians.... Knowing they exist was enough to cause the Borg to actively pursue them and not just passively wait for an opportunity to assimilate.
I just wish it was more even. We should be able to see more shirtless men with muscles.
amusingly enough that is really common in the battle harem manga, despite being pretty much the definition of male heterosexual fantasy, than again it's not uncommon for women to read or write those manga so it's not surprising they'ld add some fanservice for them.
and yes, everyone deserves fanservice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
As with Survivor, we're going to make new threads for new content, so you guys can give us your feedback!
What did you think of the new Featured Episode, Mirrors and Smoke?
Well, I liked it because, for me, it felt like one of those TOS episode that is holding up a mirror to modern society.
But now that we've seen the Kentari world, I feel as if we need to see the Lukari world. Or at least one of the colony worlds that they have created for themselves or perhaps the one that they "re-created" for the Povini.
To be honest, I just want another New Romulus type of world/map to explore. A place that is great to keep going back to for it's beauty al well as for the many, many missions and locations over the entire map. A place were a mystery begins and deepens over time but eventually leads to a definite crescendo and an important resolution.
But to get back to the point, it showed two sides of an issue fairly well. I especially enjoyed the two different media machines offering alternate views of the world they live on. It practically mirrored the mirror. Next time we visit the Mirror Universe, I expect to find a pair of machines like this.
With respect, I strongly doubt that Bill Thiess' (in)famous costumes for the female guest stars of TOS, or Gene having "fittings" and/or "auditions" of same in his office - or, in later eras, Jeri Ryan being brought on VOY to provide eye candy in a catsuit before they (and we) discovered damn, she can act too, or the aforementioned gratuitous decontamination scenes of ENT, or Alice Eve as Carol Marcus stripping to her skivvies for no good reason (save the obvious), had anything to do with feminism or empowerment. IMO, it has much more to do with what our society excuses and dismisses with the (horrible) statement that "boys will be boys". (lol objectification)
I just wish it was more even. We should be able to see more shirtless men with muscles. Unfortunally we are always going to have the "we are appealing to the male 18-30" demographic when it comes to Star trek or any other franchise.
Seven of Nine mentions the Borg's memory from that far back is fragmentary, which, given how the Borg share data with each other, could only happen if lots of Borg were killed, suggesting they were getting their butts stomped by the other races.
Or some large scale catastrophy, like a significant part of their populace being wiped out by, say, some supernova.
IDK - I think there's NOTHING wrong with titillation in Star Trek. You can still have that AND a good story. It's interesting how people try to deny sex (and sex appeal) is, has, and will be a part of the Human experience for as long as we exist.
I am very open towards the concept of watching attractive women in various states of undress, or even nicely dressed. However, I don't want random **** shoved in my face for no apparent reason other than ****. And that is your second criterion, which often falls flat. Adding sexuality to a good story is not only having a good story and some sexuality, but it needs to be integrated and make sense in context.
Edit: the blanked out word is a common descriptor of two female body parts which show that humans are mammals.
Second edit: after editing, they aren't blanked out anymore?!
Perhaps you could get around the filter by calling them breastesses? Or mammalries? Meloons? We're creative people, we could surely come up with something :P
i'd just do what MXR does on his youtube channel - call them tittehs
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I just wish it was more even. We should be able to see more shirtless men with muscles. Unfortunally we are always going to have the "we are appealing to the male 18-30" demographic when it comes to Star trek or any other franchise.
In many cases though, it's not so much 18-30, people who may have seen a female body in real life, but more like 12-14...
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Comments
Probably the Soros/Rockefeller camps....sick one section of society on another, create infighting, oppression of stuff, divide and conquer, and so on.
I consider that a strong statement. Yes, many issues on the table today are "luxury issues" others would like to have. But neither racism nor gender roles are resolved topics, and I doubt they are "as much eliminated as they will ever be".
With respect, I strongly doubt that Bill Thiess' (in)famous costumes for the female guest stars of TOS, or Gene having "fittings" and/or "auditions" of same in his office - or, in later eras, Jeri Ryan being brought on VOY to provide eye candy in a catsuit before they (and we) discovered damn, she can act too, or the aforementioned gratuitous decontamination scenes of ENT, or Alice Eve as Carol Marcus stripping to her skivvies for no good reason (save the obvious), had anything to do with feminism or empowerment. IMO, it has much more to do with what our society excuses and dismisses with the (horrible) statement that "boys will be boys". (lol objectification, also men can't and shouldn't be expected to even try to control their urges/impulses.)
you'd rather have 'em in burlap sacks? o.o
(Yes, I realize this puts me at odds with my avatar. Then again, I'm not a cheat or a shyster, nor a peddler in flesh and/or drugs, in RL.)
I heard that. Always thought Seven's outfit was only missing the stripper pole to make it complete.
As to the new episode -
"Hey, gang! We're going to use Captain Planet as the plotline for the new Featured Episode! It will be uuge! UUUGE, I tell you!"
Slavery. How many other games are there out there where you can buy and sell slaves? And for that matter, the Federation is essentially a tacit accomplice to slavery, willing to ally with governments who practice it merely out of convenience. In the real world, the British Empire took a stand against slavery, ordering its military vessels to capture any slave ships and free the slaves. They also refused to militarily help countries that practiced slavery, even when they considered it to be in their interest, most notably not helping the South during the American Civil War.
Shouldn't the Federation be expected to do the same?
And this is just as timely as any Trump comparison, as there are people (mostly women) still being sold as slaves today. Instead, Star Trek uses sex slaves as sort of hur, hurh, isn't that sexy, sort of thing. When it's in fact an atrocity.
And it would also be great if they could do a mission about the evils of gambling, and the exploiting of people with mental compulsions that make them prone to gambling and thus spending lots of money they probably can't afford, simply because they have a condition that compels them to.
> The only race the Federation is even remotely associated with that practices slavery is the Orions via their alliance with the Klingon Empire.
>
> And both the Klingon Empire and the Federation fight against Orion Syndicate slavery operations. I mean, we even outright capture or kill the Syndicate 2nd in command during the Wasteland arc.
>
> Not to mention the fight against the Breen slavers trying to enslave the Deferi in the Breen Invasion arc.
I think the poster is referring to the KDF DOFFing missions of capturing prisoners and then sending them in labour camps or selling them off to slavers. But it should be noted that DOFF missions are basically non canonical to STO as most of them are during the first chapter and operate on the concept of war between the factions. The story itself doesn't support this angle any more but DOFFing hasn't been updated since release of the system and feels currently like all the other game systems that were ultimately removed due to lack of development.
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My character Tsin'xing
Also well done for everyone staying civil.
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
Finally, someone said this. For everything that was ever in the canon, it only makes sense that somewhere, some species has refined it. For whatever reason, the Tzenkethi, Lukari, and Kentari occupy space where protomatter is more readily available. To them it's like nuclear power is to us, albeit with science fantasy magical powers. Nuclear power for us will likely need to exist alongside renewables for a long time, but it can also destroy worlds.
It really is justified. The only remarkable aspect is the Borg haven't gotten it yet. (but that could be said about anything...they should have apexed long ago)
IDK - I think there's NOTHING wrong with titillation in Star Trek. You can still have that AND a good story. It's interesting how people try to deny sex (and sex appeal) is, has, and will be a part of the Human experience for as long as we exist.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Or some large scale catastrophy, like a significant part of their populace being wiped out by, say, some supernova.
I am very open towards the concept of watching attractive women in various states of undress, or even nicely dressed. However, I don't want random TRIBBLE shoved in my face for no apparent reason other than TRIBBLE. And that is your second criterion, which often falls flat. Adding sexuality to a good story is not only having a good story and some sexuality, but it needs to be integrated and make sense in context.
Edit: the blanked out word is a common descriptor of two female body parts which show that humans are mammals.
Second edit: after editing, they aren't blanked out anymore?!
I am kidding, I rather have a good story with good actors.
My character Tsin'xing
amusingly enough that is really common in the battle harem manga, despite being pretty much the definition of male heterosexual fantasy, than again it's not uncommon for women to read or write those manga so it's not surprising they'ld add some fanservice for them.
and yes, everyone deserves fanservice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Well, I liked it because, for me, it felt like one of those TOS episode that is holding up a mirror to modern society.
But now that we've seen the Kentari world, I feel as if we need to see the Lukari world. Or at least one of the colony worlds that they have created for themselves or perhaps the one that they "re-created" for the Povini.
To be honest, I just want another New Romulus type of world/map to explore. A place that is great to keep going back to for it's beauty al well as for the many, many missions and locations over the entire map. A place were a mystery begins and deepens over time but eventually leads to a definite crescendo and an important resolution.
But to get back to the point, it showed two sides of an issue fairly well. I especially enjoyed the two different media machines offering alternate views of the world they live on. It practically mirrored the mirror. Next time we visit the Mirror Universe, I expect to find a pair of machines like this.
you'd rather have 'em in burlap sacks? o.o
I can make you some 3D art if you like
i'd just do what MXR does on his youtube channel - call them tittehs
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
In many cases though, it's not so much 18-30, people who may have seen a female body in real life, but more like 12-14...