Why is Kuumaarke and her ship still using (starfleet) phasers instead of their people's technology?
Why are the Kentari using starfleet (!) phaser rifles?
Why is Donald wearing clearly Romulan and clearly Klingon uniform pieces?
Why is there a Talarian starship in one of the cutscenes which wasn't there before - a mix up in the "generic" starships?
You just reminded me, why are so many Japanese characters in the Kentari script?
After having played the episode another time, two more observations from the Kentaar City map:
1) It seems like I was mistaken, generally your phasers seem to be set to stun (not on the moon though). Only the odd combo blast will kill people.
2) Another topic apart from xenophobia and environmentalism seems to be education. "What has the world come too", capitol mix up with capital, ...
I also can draw ground aggro with some toons away from Kuumarke, so that criticism I made is also void and may have happened due to a low aggro toon when first playing it.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Let's imagine for example a benevolent alien species contacts us and tell us they can solve all our problems with a single special bomb. All forests, energy sources, oceans, etc. restored and they give you free unlimited and completely clean energy source to replace your polluting ones in an instant. Sounds cool, right? And it is... but not when it's instant.
I have to agree on this as well. The whole protomatter restoration thing in this case just comes off as a little deus ex machina to me. Even the Genesis Device had to have the various vegetation programmed into its matrix and that (from what I remember) took time. Also, I still keep personally playing back the scene in Wrath of Kahn where McCoy and Spock were having an argument about the moral implications of Genesis; something that doesn't seem to be readily applied in this FE.
As for the Kentari leadership mirroring what we've seen and heard from Tiny Hands and Pantsuit, I'll just say that a while back I toyed with the idea of making a Foundry mission that reflected on the political landscape recently in a similar fashion as this FE. After reading some of the reactions from "Mirrors and Smoke," I sort of glad I didn't go through with it.
Steampunk? No way, that city is cyberpunk as hell. I actually quite like it, the architecture and neon lighting is awesome. It needs to be cleaned up some and have more neon and blacklight put up, but apart from that I'd live there in a heartbeat. I love brutalist architecture and overbuilt urban mazes.
Playing through it again, I have to say I'm sympathetic to the Kentari and rather annoyed at Kuumarke's bad attitude. What the hell does she expect?! They're doing the best they can with the tech level they have, and all she can do is look down her nose at them and call them barbaric. She's judging them from a place of extreme privilege, spoiled from living in a post-scarcity utopia. Yeah the conditions suck, but they have limited resources and capabilities. Even the Lukari didn't have warp capability until a few months ago and still are relative primitives compared to the rest of the quadrant, who are they to condemn? The PM acknowledges the problems, is willing to open a dialogue and is open to accepting help, so what's the problem? With Federation technology to produce clean energy in abundance (fusion power would do the job, without even needing to give them matter / antimatter tech) and some atmosphere processors to clean up the pollution from the existing power generation facilities, they'll be doing a lot better even without such really advanced stuff like transporters and replicators. They at least have food production covered and have a functioning one world government without any civil wars or WMDs pointed at one another which is a hell of a lot better than we can say for the real Earth of here and now. Cut them some slack!
Even if the Federation didn't show up, they seemed like they were on the verge of a breakthrough with the new discovery of that mineral in the asteroid belt they could use to generate power more cleanly and effectively than the "chemical and atomic" methods they are currently using. If that report is truthful, they might well have solved their problems on their own provided the Tzenkethi never found them either.
In all, it's a world with an equivalent technology and social development level to what we will probably be at the turn of the next century, doing the best they can with the capabilities they have and most of them at least are willing to work to make it better. And they certainly got a lot farther along than Earth did without driving themselves nearly to extinction via a world war with WMDs the way Earth did!
Yet it's all done via artificially created, and maintained, status quo. And I highly doubt the alternative energy source would have made it, since those in power will do anything to keep power, wealth too, but the money is merely a bonus. It's like Tesla...regardless of weather you do or do not believe in the clean, safe free energy he was gonna give us (I am one of the believer of that, by the way), why did PRAT, JP Morgan, pull the plug....unless he, or his other rich buddies...other bankers and the rockefeller types....had something to lose, had Tesla succeeded? And after Tesla died, the government did raid his home, so imagine what sorta notes and research papers he had....and given the weird objects I see in the sky almost every night (being near a military base, it tells me some of them are ours, yet they are not telling us anything....in addition to possible visitors from out there....yea, I know a lot of you trekkers don't like the ET topic, but it's a big universe we're in...), moving in ways none of the stuff we are officially aware of can IE sharp angle turns at high speeds, right angle turns, stopping suddenly, etc....whomever made them, be it us or those from another world, one thing is certain, they are not running on unleaded or diesel....which means if some of them are ours, which some probably are, means there's a superior energy source than oil and coal...and not being told about, though we are probably paying for it....those 'trillions' the government said it 'lost' gotta be going somewhere...and doubt it if it's just champagne, hookers, little kids and big mansions.
So before the infantile name calling and memes start cropping up for the above paragraph, what I am saying that while they might have a 'united government', there's no real freedom, no clean air (unless you can pay for it) an obviously hardcore class system going about. Economics can be a far more effective weapon that WMD's pointed at each other.......the new way of slavery I see today is not with chains and large whips......but with debt, and/or witholding technology and science for the benefit of the few who would lose everything, their kingdom, as it were, should that said technology and science be released.....I could see some of those scientists and engineers who are working on that new, world saving/world changing technology on Kentar either having an 'accident' or 'commit suicide' as time goes by to slow things down. Not to mention the 2 news booths shown are prime examples of how media uses propaganda and what I call "fear TRIBBLE" to increase the hostility between classes and between the Traditionalists and the Progressives.....as well as trying to scare you about some threat...be it about races, a new invention or science that can effect an economy, environmental threats or a lack of it.......as well as, "We, your leaders/government know what is best for you......nothing to see here, people....go back to working and shopping!" I mean just turn on your TV and watch news channels....be it FOX News, MSNBC, CNN.....it's pretty much the same as those 2 news booths you see in the new quest in game.
And this is not new to Trek
Be it the Malons, The Angosians, or others.
Remember this quote from Season 1's "Angel One"?
"After careful consideration this legislature has voted to stay the executions of the prisoners. Their children will be returned to them immediately. Do not rejoice prematurely. Ramsey and his followers are to be exiled to a distant and unpopulated region. Life will be difficult there, with little time for revolutionary or evolutionary upheaval. As some have observed we may not be able to stop evolution, but perhaps we can reduce it to a slow crawl. (aside) For a man, you can be very clever, Commander Riker."
- Beata, informing Ramsey and the Enterprise crew of the vote to stay the executions
Those in power will do what they can do to stop change (Especially if the change benefits all), or in the very least postpone it as long as possible....be it with war, economics, etc. It's an old story, still happening and if someone things that their country or government is somehow immune, because it's their country or government (like "it's America!" or "Rue Britannia!", etc for example, it shows how historically ignorant a person can be.
~hops off the podium~
Feel free to send any angry PM's. And have a good day. ^_^
Nor did this message make any sense in this setting. Why are we concerned with a planet's eco system when we are now able to destroy and completely recreate it in minutes? We're now at the point where we can take a world like Risa and switch from beach front resort to the winter wonderland resort nearly as easily as Q.
Because you can't expect to change an entire civilization overnight.
Let's imagine for example a benevolent alien species contacts us and tell us they can solve all our problems with a single special bomb. All forests, energy sources, oceans, etc. restored and they give you free unlimited and completely clean energy source to replace your polluting ones in an instant. Sounds cool, right? And it is... but not when it's instant.
Free, unlimited energy source can mean among many things:
-the entire fossil fuels industry collapses, bringing the whole energy industry with it
-your current car, tools, power supplies are now useless without these industries
-need to adapt EVERYTHING for this new energy
-Wall Street suffers a total breakdown, endangering countless companies, their providers, their employees and the cities that welcome them
-riots happen for various motives: risk to endanger the old ways and the whole raisons d'être, dependency to the aliens, conspiracy theories, any tech now useless because of the broken economy
-vegetation taking back what civilization took from it, meaning many cities overwhelmed by it
-some leaders refusing to lose their power
-the food chain possibly all destabilized
-rise of extremist ideologies for various reasons (protecting their culture, blasphemy of the aliens, attempts to destroy older foes in the chaos, warmongering elements, etc...)
-etc.
That's why things must go progressively, through several generations, slowly but surely while resisting the attempts of some elements to derail them, all to accomplish a successful and near-harmless transition.
Personally, I say to hell with slow, progression.....the longer one waits....the more painful the process will be.
And the more one waits, the more lives miss out on something wonderful.
Personally, I welcome the extreme change....for it will never happen if we wait, slowly...with the stupid 'drip....drip....drip' policy....especially with leaders refusing to lose power, not to mention the energy and public utilities....all of which I find are just blood sucking businessmen who don't give a damn about people....just their power and profits.
Besides....like as if I'm gonna cry over fossil fuels, Wall Street and folks clinging to old ways......I say either deal with it, or they can go hang themselves...and I'll be more than happy to provide the ropes for them.
As the old saying goes, the medicine might taste bad, but it's the only way for the patient to get well....and that medicine should have been taken YEARS ago, I say.
Too huge a technological jump in too short a time has been shown to create great problems though. Apart from all the intentional bad colonism brought with it, the sudden technology jump created great rifts in the societies of the peoples of the Americas or Oceania. Most blatant example probably the Innuit.
The switch of an energy source probably wouldn't do that though, agreed.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
The city map is beautiful, but sadly wasted on nothing more than a accolade quest. Aside from the moon vaporization and instant resurrection (which was total eyeroll) the mission was pretty standard meh.
So they fixxed the protomater decay problem from the original Genesis torpedo ?
Thanks for the easy spec point
Oh OT- Does Gal Gadot know PWE stole her likeness for the S13 forum background artwork ?
I never liked the concept of the Genesis device from the beginning, it's one of those things trek did that totally should have been forgotten and for all intents and purposes disowned from canon, it's beyond ridiculous, even in a setting with warp drives and transporters and miracle cures. Trek cranks science fiction up to 11 on most days, but that device goes all the way to 12 and beyond! But I digress.
As for the mission itself, it's one of the more atmospheric and original environmental works I've seen yet for this game, I wish we got to explore the city and talk to locals more!
So they fixxed the protomater decay problem from the original Genesis torpedo ?
Lukari are far more advanced than the Alliance regarding Protomatter.
Considering what is said in Echoes of Light, the Alliance may have not solved the problem of the Genesis device as your captain says "protomatter is highly unstable" while Kuumaarke says the Lukari know how to manipulate it efficiently, easily and safely.
That's right. People seem to think because the Lukari didn't have powerful starships they are primitive. However it seems Lukari science is far advanced in certain areas, and behind in others (no transporters for example).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Nor did this message make any sense in this setting. Why are we concerned with a planet's eco system when we are now able to destroy and completely recreate it in minutes? We're now at the point where we can take a world like Risa and switch from beach front resort to the winter wonderland resort nearly as easily as Q.
Because you can't expect to change an entire civilization overnight.
Let's imagine for example a benevolent alien species contacts us and tell us they can solve all our problems with a single special bomb. All forests, energy sources, oceans, etc. restored and they give you free unlimited and completely clean energy source to replace your polluting ones in an instant. Sounds cool, right? And it is... but not when it's instant.
Free, unlimited energy source can mean among many things:
-the entire fossil fuels industry collapses, bringing the whole energy industry with it
-your current car, tools, power supplies are now useless without these industries
Well, actually no. This is circula reasoning.
The fossil fuel industry would only collapse after most of the equipment requiring them have been replaced. Which, unless the aliens also give everyone new cars and everything for free, would take a long time.
-need to adapt EVERYTHING for this new energy
Eventually. If it's practical to do so.
-Wall Street suffers a total breakdown, endangering countless companies, their providers, their employees and the cities that welcome them
-riots happen for various motives: risk to endanger the old ways and the whole raisons d'être, dependency to the aliens, conspiracy theories, any tech now useless because of the broken economy
-vegetation taking back what civilization took from it, meaning many cities overwhelmed by it
-some leaders refusing to lose their power
-the food chain possibly all destabilized
-rise of extremist ideologies for various reasons (protecting their culture, blasphemy of the aliens, attempts to destroy older foes in the chaos, warmongering elements, etc...)
All of this would likely happen from the reveleation of the existence of aliens, not giving them clean energy source...if we were discussing a civilization that didn't already know of aliens existing anyway.
In any case, telling them we could give them clean energy but we're not gonna cause we're self-righteous dicks "you're not ready" certainly isn't gonna cause any less extremist ideologies and whatnot, if the population is so inclined (and given the mission story, it clearly is).
So they fixxed the protomater decay problem from the original Genesis torpedo ?
Lukari are far more advanced than the Alliance regarding Protomatter.
Considering what is said in Echoes of Light, the Alliance may have not solved the problem of the Genesis device as your captain says "protomatter is highly unstable" while Kuumaarke says the Lukari know how to manipulate it efficiently, easily and safely.
TBH I thought it was a plot by 'the evil general' and the regent to get Kuumaarke to regenerate the moon for them, as I figured the production on the moon was already failing and couldn't be recovered so they hatched a plan to get Lukari technology to save it for them.
Guess I read too much into the mission as the end dialog pointed to a simple roadmap A-to-B-to-C : bad Generals incompetent lackeys engineer coup that ultimately fails... because we were there.
*shrug
Well, for me the main issue I have with this episode is it felt under-whelmingly short. The 'city' was too small, but had nice detailing and hidden acolades. The dialogue wasn't immersive enough for 'making contact with a lost race', especially lacking in the diplomacy part, which also meant that when the farm-planet was 'Genesis'd' there was zero emotional impact. The farm-planet's map was also small, but had a few silhouette buildings in the far background.
Out of 10, it only gets a 5. Sorry guys.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Loved the city map. The map-making in general has been fantastic the past few episodes. Two small suggestions: It'd have been a nice touch to be able to buy re-breathers from the vending machines, and I wish there was a bar or some sort of interior space. Would have been something I'd come back to for RP purposes. Maybe in Foundry? STO has been missing this type of setting forever.
Oh, but it's possibly a little weird that standing on the devastated moon was still less toxic than being in the populated city.
I think the writing would have been more interesting if one of the two major political figures was the industrialist and the other was the xenophobe (maybe on the theory that outside trade was to blame for inducing them to harm their environment to produce goods). I'm very sympathetic to the political views the story favors, but by the time the mustache-twirling villain was attacking me for trying to save his people from starvation, I found myself saying "oh come on..." aloud. The writing doesn't have to be this black and white.
I'm not a fan of Kuumarke's reset button, but I understand if that was done to avoid the Kentari's moon being a repeat of the Na'kuhl's sun.
There wasn't much to the gameplay, but I don't know what can be done differently at this point. People complain if the puzzles are more than baby level, so we get huge, glowing yellow arrows defeating the point of a jungle maze. They complain that Star Trek isn't about war, it's about exploration and diplomacy, but if you don't put in combat they say there's nothing to do. I guess brief, token combat is the compromise. I'd like to see harder puzzles or difficult diplomatic dialogue sequences that if you fail them, you instantly get a big combat scene and winning that somehow solves the problem. Somewhat like the old Mass Effect Paragon or Renegade option. Then there's something for everyone. I understand though that creating good puzzles takes a lot more work than spawning some npcs to shoot, yet the pew-pew generally gets more favorable feedback from the players, so I can't be too demanding about this.
Characterization
- i admit I have prior attachment to TNG, so while I loved Survivor.. I didn't really like Mirrors and Smoke at all.
- I felt the characters were bland, uninteresting, and one-dimensional. That they seemed to generally lack motive or character.
- I'm not a big fan of Kuumarke. We don't really get to know her on a personal level, she's just an npc. The Voice Acting on her is great though.. except when the moon is attacked. She doesn't really show much in the way of emotions. I get that is hard to do through mission popups without doing full-on cutscenes.
- The Duuvit Frigates, random Kentari in the city, and other characters that immediately enter combat with you for no particular reason seems really cheap. in hollywood movies, gangs generally at least try verbal intimidation first rather than just attacking you out of nowhere and being gone. There's basically no point in most of the combat in this episode.
- Tuulemaan lacks character ~ She initially hails you after you kill off the Duuvit ships. I get that they attack on sight.. fine.. but that makes no sense. If they were a warrior/battle-based culture and this was a test of some kind then the opening scenario woul make sense. Her immediate offer of parley also felt rather off... even with a universal translator, seems odd that they would have that level of communication. Regardless, She immediately trusts [player] and Kuumarke apparently only so she'll be accepted as a "good guy" character.
- Which brings me to Pentaaro. He hates you for no particular reason, and is the bad guy that we're gonna kill off. So basically he's Noye but probably won't become as relevant as Noye.
Space Levels
- Space levels are space levels. they're pretty spot on and don't really require much. k?
Kentar Ground
- it's beautiful, but not a social zone. like Mirror-bajor, this is a pretty cool place that I wouldn't mind spending more time in. Perhaps as an adventure zone. or a "roleplay enviornment". hopefully it'll become available in the foundry or something. It's done really well!
- The NPCs commenting on your weapons, the rival news stations, the placement of characters, the models and textures, wet streets, dripping pipes..... .all great things. you guys did a great cyberpunk place!
- It would have been cooler if the vending machines had spit out or even sold rebreathers for no reason at all. on that note, i'd rather Rebreathers and Flashlights were unlockable "captain powers" rather than items.
- the gangs that random-attack you... these bothered me greatly. They just immediately spawn in and attack. they don't try to really intimidate you or anything.
- the Penthouse Office was quite pretty even if the environment reminded me a bit of Star Wars, but still.. for an isolated mission the whole thing seems wasted. I hope we re-visit here like with the breen arc which kept bringing us back to Defera.
Kentar Moon
- This area felt very under-utilized and pretty bland. I think it was supposed to seem bland to better reference earth's moon... but it didn't really feel right. Thinking back to fixing Krenim stuff.. that was fun for some reason.
Other Stuff
- After everyone on the moon was killed, the characters seemed unbothered in general, and the voice acting showed no change in emotion at all. No remorse, no human, no character. The Writing felt wrong. We were supposed to realize something bad happened, but it was a cheap plot device rather than a serious tragedy.
- The cutscene showing Kuumarke on her bridge was welcomed. does she have a crew? I saw a random npc walking about on her bridge but we never got to know anyone. in Trek shows/films someone usually meeds part of the crew.
- Too much reused content. While I didn't mind the "Generic Faction Ships", but Tuulemaan used Orion and Romulan parts in her outfit, her lackeys were all wearing Omegaforce gear and such. didn't feel very alien, Not that every episode requires a new slew of npc faction content, but if you wanna start giving us a new outfit in every episode i'd be happy to replay all of them! yay Spacebarbie!
- mission felt oddly short.
Pretty scenery in places, underwhelming story sprinkled with some deus ex machina and the current meta of bland and routine ground/space combat. Thanks for the free spec point though.
While I am reminded that Star Trek has taken political stances in the past they have done so with considerably more grace and originality than this episode did.
It was a valiant attempt to shrug off the shallow storytelling and war-stories of seasons past... but it failed in execution. There was no subtly nor was there an attempt to show the other side of the conflict. It was an Anti-Conservative We're Going To Pusth The Liberal Politik Enjoy It Here Have Several More Helpings If You Want The Gear Set at it's worse.
If I had a call in it, I'd say pull the episode for a rewrite and make it more balanced -- WHY are the conservatives the way they are? What is their story? I know why I voted the way I did and if you shut your reflexive media-driven hate-spew from your noise-hole I can tell you why. And it makes sense when you hear my side of the story. But instead we have more hate more media-driven button pushing and more knee-jerk politic.
I did play the episode a second time to make sure I got a full measure, the Prime Minister's apologizing for everything and her awestruck "Thank you for giving me everything I wanted I so deserve this" attitude does not sit well with me. The Donald Trump hate-monkey character was obvious from the moment we saw him, there was no attempt to disguise this episode as an elaborate attempt to lampoon and bash the president. A chance to engage in wish-fulfillment -- Donald Trump removed from office at gun-point and punished simply because a handfull of people disagree with him.
You know, as an aside I still don't get that. QUITE A FEW people hated Obama for a rather old-fashion and obsolete notion -- that a man of his "kind" could never hold power... But we didn't have calls for opened armed insurrection, assassination and impeachment every time he opened his mouth.. Gosh.
Anyway. That's my opinion on the political side of the story. TL;DR: Nice try but your writers lack the chops to pull off a political story, stick with what you know and write best.
I am also somewhat uncomfortable with the issue that the Lukari were able to reformat an entire planet in moments. Perhaps in time if the Federation hadn't abandoned Genesis tech for political reasons we too would have such a technology... but the resolution seemed way too forced and contrived. Almost convenient. Perhaps there is another wrinkle to this and our Lukari friends are not so naive and innocent..? After all it seems awfully... convenient that they are such experts in protomatter at a time an enemy is using protomatter as a weapon... In a way that is polar opposite to the Lukari's methods. And it seems very convenient that the mad-bombers show up at a politically critical juncture, blow up JUST the one thing that the Lukari have the magical ability to instantly fix... Do tell... how did they have the exact pattern and matrix handy to restore an entire scoured moon at the flip of a switch...
That makes me just a wee bit suspicious right there of our friendly alien Captain's innocent persona.
This Feature Episode was almost like a one off Star Trek episode. I like the concept. Going back to one off episodes that try to fit what Star Trek is about would be a nice change of pace for Star Trek Online every so often. What the Feature Episode fails in is that it tries too hard to push an agenda while making any counter viewpoints look invalid. I think if this episode had more in common with the TNG episode "First Contact" it would have been more reasonable and interesting. I was also hoping that this new episode would give us new revelations as to why the Tzenkethi are doing exactly what they are doing. As far as I can tell the new episode told us little to nothing about this on that front. That would have been fine if the rest of the mission was strong enough to make up for it.
In the spoiler below is what I would have done to change the mission.
If I were to change this Feature Episode, here is what I would probably do. I feel like a lot of the Tzenkethi stuff should have actually been cut from this episode. Instead of having the Tzenkethi attack mid episode, have the episode start after the attack has happened. The planet is in chaos and high alert after their moon has been devastated, hence why we are attacked the moment we enter orbit. After we deal with their opening patrol, we have a similar interaction with the Prime Minister, explaining how dire the situation is, and how she would like to meet with you for help. Keep the ground segment, but also establish that things are even worse because of the recent Tzenkethi attack. Civil unrest is high, hence why there are just piles of debris so close to the government buildings.
Upon meeting with the Prime Minister, that's when we would get a proper explanation on New Kentar. Establish the fear and contempt caused by their past relationship with the Lukari, and establish that these feelings have been intensified due to the Tzenkethi using weaponry that was directly inspired from Lukari technology. This helps makes the open distrust from characters like the Defence Minister seem a lot more reasonable. After that, it would be best to establish some background on the politics involved in the situation. For example, establish that the Prime Minister has been pushing economic reforms, but a part of this was a mass cut back on military and defence expenses. This in turn causes many to blame the Prime Minister's administration for this disaster, as they would believe that with stronger defences they could have prevented the Tzenkethi attack. With your character acting as a mediator between Kuumaarke and the Kentar, establish that the Lukari can use their protomatter technology to at least restore the Moon to a climate that their people can live in. This wouldn't immediately solve all of New Kentar's current problems, but it would at least give them a way to recover after several years. You could establish some other complications. Perhaps the Prime Minister wants to take credit for the Moons recovery as a way to save her administration, while the Defense Minister insists that they should return to their traditional ways for the time being until the Tzenkethi threat is removed. Show the pros and cons of both stances. To that end, give players the chance to either support the Prime Minister's administration, support the Defense Minister, or support neither. This decision doesn't have to actually matter in later continuity of Star Trek Online, but it at least allows players to act true to their own character's beliefs.
Regardless of who you end up supporting, you would end up going to the moon with Kuumaarke to restore it. Instead of having traditionalist rebels be responsible for the sabotage, establish that it is instead the Tzenkethi. The Tzenkethi sent a few ships to the Kentar Moon to inspect it after their attack, and ensure that their mission was successful. Have a brief stand off with the Tzenkethi, and present the player with the option to either attack them, or try to negotiate (again, because players like to play true to their characters). The negotiation doesn't have to be successful, but you could have a hint in the Tzenkethi dialogue that points towards why they are devastating planets. Have the typical combat against the Tzenkethi, set up the Lukari technology, and then restore the planet. Then end off with some concluding dialogue between the Prime Minister, Defense Minister, and Kuumaarke.
What I did like in this mission was the map design, and the creative use of pre existing assets to create the Kentar. The mission visually looked very nice. It would be nice if we could get some more City environments for ground missions, adventure zones, and PVE queues. I also enjoy getting Ground Sets from feature episodes, since it typically gives me new stuff to give to Boffs and new characters I'm running as they level up.
- It would have been cooler if the vending machines had spit out or even sold rebreathers for no reason at all. on that note, i'd rather Rebreathers and Flashlights were unlockable "captain powers" rather than items.
Add fire extinguishers and insect repellant to the list. Though extinguishers (Terminal Expanse) and flashlights (What Lies Beneath) aren't items anymore, so there's a move in that direction.
This insults the player's who had to earn their way up the ladder to be able to wear those items.
Huh? I mean, I get that these are the wrong items for the characters in question, but how does NPCs wearing some item insult characters who don't have them or had to work their way towards them? Cardassians flying Galor class ships insults me because I didn't get one from the lockbox/had to pay for the lockbox?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
If you had to EARN a sash or special item; would you want to see it on someone that has not earned it? Would you want to see something you had to earn on a random or multiple NPC's that have NO canon reason to have them?
Point made
Still not convinced. How do you know they have not "earned" it? Again, I get the non canon part - but you already mentioned that in another line of your first post which I didn't quote. But NPCs don't "earn" the way players do.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Comments
You just reminded me, why are so many Japanese characters in the Kentari script?
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1) It seems like I was mistaken, generally your phasers seem to be set to stun (not on the moon though). Only the odd combo blast will kill people.
2) Another topic apart from xenophobia and environmentalism seems to be education. "What has the world come too", capitol mix up with capital, ...
I also can draw ground aggro with some toons away from Kuumarke, so that criticism I made is also void and may have happened due to a low aggro toon when first playing it.
I have to agree on this as well. The whole protomatter restoration thing in this case just comes off as a little deus ex machina to me. Even the Genesis Device had to have the various vegetation programmed into its matrix and that (from what I remember) took time. Also, I still keep personally playing back the scene in Wrath of Kahn where McCoy and Spock were having an argument about the moral implications of Genesis; something that doesn't seem to be readily applied in this FE.
As for the Kentari leadership mirroring what we've seen and heard from Tiny Hands and Pantsuit, I'll just say that a while back I toyed with the idea of making a Foundry mission that reflected on the political landscape recently in a similar fashion as this FE. After reading some of the reactions from "Mirrors and Smoke," I sort of glad I didn't go through with it.
"No matter where you go...there you are."
Yet it's all done via artificially created, and maintained, status quo. And I highly doubt the alternative energy source would have made it, since those in power will do anything to keep power, wealth too, but the money is merely a bonus. It's like Tesla...regardless of weather you do or do not believe in the clean, safe free energy he was gonna give us (I am one of the believer of that, by the way), why did PRAT, JP Morgan, pull the plug....unless he, or his other rich buddies...other bankers and the rockefeller types....had something to lose, had Tesla succeeded? And after Tesla died, the government did raid his home, so imagine what sorta notes and research papers he had....and given the weird objects I see in the sky almost every night (being near a military base, it tells me some of them are ours, yet they are not telling us anything....in addition to possible visitors from out there....yea, I know a lot of you trekkers don't like the ET topic, but it's a big universe we're in...), moving in ways none of the stuff we are officially aware of can IE sharp angle turns at high speeds, right angle turns, stopping suddenly, etc....whomever made them, be it us or those from another world, one thing is certain, they are not running on unleaded or diesel....which means if some of them are ours, which some probably are, means there's a superior energy source than oil and coal...and not being told about, though we are probably paying for it....those 'trillions' the government said it 'lost' gotta be going somewhere...and doubt it if it's just champagne, hookers, little kids and big mansions.
So before the infantile name calling and memes start cropping up for the above paragraph, what I am saying that while they might have a 'united government', there's no real freedom, no clean air (unless you can pay for it) an obviously hardcore class system going about. Economics can be a far more effective weapon that WMD's pointed at each other.......the new way of slavery I see today is not with chains and large whips......but with debt, and/or witholding technology and science for the benefit of the few who would lose everything, their kingdom, as it were, should that said technology and science be released.....I could see some of those scientists and engineers who are working on that new, world saving/world changing technology on Kentar either having an 'accident' or 'commit suicide' as time goes by to slow things down. Not to mention the 2 news booths shown are prime examples of how media uses propaganda and what I call "fear TRIBBLE" to increase the hostility between classes and between the Traditionalists and the Progressives.....as well as trying to scare you about some threat...be it about races, a new invention or science that can effect an economy, environmental threats or a lack of it.......as well as, "We, your leaders/government know what is best for you......nothing to see here, people....go back to working and shopping!" I mean just turn on your TV and watch news channels....be it FOX News, MSNBC, CNN.....it's pretty much the same as those 2 news booths you see in the new quest in game.
And this is not new to Trek
Be it the Malons, The Angosians, or others.
Remember this quote from Season 1's "Angel One"?
"After careful consideration this legislature has voted to stay the executions of the prisoners. Their children will be returned to them immediately. Do not rejoice prematurely. Ramsey and his followers are to be exiled to a distant and unpopulated region. Life will be difficult there, with little time for revolutionary or evolutionary upheaval. As some have observed we may not be able to stop evolution, but perhaps we can reduce it to a slow crawl. (aside) For a man, you can be very clever, Commander Riker."
- Beata, informing Ramsey and the Enterprise crew of the vote to stay the executions
Those in power will do what they can do to stop change (Especially if the change benefits all), or in the very least postpone it as long as possible....be it with war, economics, etc. It's an old story, still happening and if someone things that their country or government is somehow immune, because it's their country or government (like "it's America!" or "Rue Britannia!", etc for example, it shows how historically ignorant a person can be.
~hops off the podium~
Feel free to send any angry PM's. And have a good day. ^_^
Personally, I say to hell with slow, progression.....the longer one waits....the more painful the process will be.
And the more one waits, the more lives miss out on something wonderful.
Personally, I welcome the extreme change....for it will never happen if we wait, slowly...with the stupid 'drip....drip....drip' policy....especially with leaders refusing to lose power, not to mention the energy and public utilities....all of which I find are just blood sucking businessmen who don't give a damn about people....just their power and profits.
Besides....like as if I'm gonna cry over fossil fuels, Wall Street and folks clinging to old ways......I say either deal with it, or they can go hang themselves...and I'll be more than happy to provide the ropes for them.
As the old saying goes, the medicine might taste bad, but it's the only way for the patient to get well....and that medicine should have been taken YEARS ago, I say.
The switch of an energy source probably wouldn't do that though, agreed.
So they fixxed the protomater decay problem from the original Genesis torpedo ?
Thanks for the easy spec point
Oh OT- Does Gal Gadot know PWE stole her likeness for the S13 forum background artwork ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
As for the mission itself, it's one of the more atmospheric and original environmental works I've seen yet for this game, I wish we got to explore the city and talk to locals more!
Considering what is said in Echoes of Light, the Alliance may have not solved the problem of the Genesis device as your captain says "protomatter is highly unstable" while Kuumaarke says the Lukari know how to manipulate it efficiently, easily and safely.
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The fossil fuel industry would only collapse after most of the equipment requiring them have been replaced. Which, unless the aliens also give everyone new cars and everything for free, would take a long time.
Eventually. If it's practical to do so.
All of this would likely happen from the reveleation of the existence of aliens, not giving them clean energy source...if we were discussing a civilization that didn't already know of aliens existing anyway.
In any case, telling them we could give them clean energy but we're not gonna cause we're self-righteous dicks "you're not ready" certainly isn't gonna cause any less extremist ideologies and whatnot, if the population is so inclined (and given the mission story, it clearly is).
TBH I thought it was a plot by 'the evil general' and the regent to get Kuumaarke to regenerate the moon for them, as I figured the production on the moon was already failing and couldn't be recovered so they hatched a plan to get Lukari technology to save it for them.
Guess I read too much into the mission as the end dialog pointed to a simple roadmap A-to-B-to-C : bad Generals incompetent lackeys engineer coup that ultimately fails... because we were there.
*shrug
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Out of 10, it only gets a 5. Sorry guys.
Oh, but it's possibly a little weird that standing on the devastated moon was still less toxic than being in the populated city.
I think the writing would have been more interesting if one of the two major political figures was the industrialist and the other was the xenophobe (maybe on the theory that outside trade was to blame for inducing them to harm their environment to produce goods). I'm very sympathetic to the political views the story favors, but by the time the mustache-twirling villain was attacking me for trying to save his people from starvation, I found myself saying "oh come on..." aloud. The writing doesn't have to be this black and white.
I'm not a fan of Kuumarke's reset button, but I understand if that was done to avoid the Kentari's moon being a repeat of the Na'kuhl's sun.
There wasn't much to the gameplay, but I don't know what can be done differently at this point. People complain if the puzzles are more than baby level, so we get huge, glowing yellow arrows defeating the point of a jungle maze. They complain that Star Trek isn't about war, it's about exploration and diplomacy, but if you don't put in combat they say there's nothing to do. I guess brief, token combat is the compromise. I'd like to see harder puzzles or difficult diplomatic dialogue sequences that if you fail them, you instantly get a big combat scene and winning that somehow solves the problem. Somewhat like the old Mass Effect Paragon or Renegade option. Then there's something for everyone. I understand though that creating good puzzles takes a lot more work than spawning some npcs to shoot, yet the pew-pew generally gets more favorable feedback from the players, so I can't be too demanding about this.
original join date 2010
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Characterization
- i admit I have prior attachment to TNG, so while I loved Survivor.. I didn't really like Mirrors and Smoke at all.
- I felt the characters were bland, uninteresting, and one-dimensional. That they seemed to generally lack motive or character.
- I'm not a big fan of Kuumarke. We don't really get to know her on a personal level, she's just an npc. The Voice Acting on her is great though.. except when the moon is attacked. She doesn't really show much in the way of emotions. I get that is hard to do through mission popups without doing full-on cutscenes.
- The Duuvit Frigates, random Kentari in the city, and other characters that immediately enter combat with you for no particular reason seems really cheap. in hollywood movies, gangs generally at least try verbal intimidation first rather than just attacking you out of nowhere and being gone. There's basically no point in most of the combat in this episode.
- Tuulemaan lacks character ~ She initially hails you after you kill off the Duuvit ships. I get that they attack on sight.. fine.. but that makes no sense. If they were a warrior/battle-based culture and this was a test of some kind then the opening scenario woul make sense. Her immediate offer of parley also felt rather off... even with a universal translator, seems odd that they would have that level of communication. Regardless, She immediately trusts [player] and Kuumarke apparently only so she'll be accepted as a "good guy" character.
- Which brings me to Pentaaro. He hates you for no particular reason, and is the bad guy that we're gonna kill off. So basically he's Noye but probably won't become as relevant as Noye.
Space Levels
- Space levels are space levels. they're pretty spot on and don't really require much. k?
Kentar Ground
- it's beautiful, but not a social zone. like Mirror-bajor, this is a pretty cool place that I wouldn't mind spending more time in. Perhaps as an adventure zone. or a "roleplay enviornment". hopefully it'll become available in the foundry or something. It's done really well!
- The NPCs commenting on your weapons, the rival news stations, the placement of characters, the models and textures, wet streets, dripping pipes..... .all great things. you guys did a great cyberpunk place!
- It would have been cooler if the vending machines had spit out or even sold rebreathers for no reason at all. on that note, i'd rather Rebreathers and Flashlights were unlockable "captain powers" rather than items.
- the gangs that random-attack you... these bothered me greatly. They just immediately spawn in and attack. they don't try to really intimidate you or anything.
- the Penthouse Office was quite pretty even if the environment reminded me a bit of Star Wars, but still.. for an isolated mission the whole thing seems wasted. I hope we re-visit here like with the breen arc which kept bringing us back to Defera.
Kentar Moon
- This area felt very under-utilized and pretty bland. I think it was supposed to seem bland to better reference earth's moon... but it didn't really feel right. Thinking back to fixing Krenim stuff.. that was fun for some reason.
Other Stuff
- After everyone on the moon was killed, the characters seemed unbothered in general, and the voice acting showed no change in emotion at all. No remorse, no human, no character. The Writing felt wrong. We were supposed to realize something bad happened, but it was a cheap plot device rather than a serious tragedy.
- The cutscene showing Kuumarke on her bridge was welcomed. does she have a crew? I saw a random npc walking about on her bridge but we never got to know anyone. in Trek shows/films someone usually meeds part of the crew.
- Too much reused content. While I didn't mind the "Generic Faction Ships", but Tuulemaan used Orion and Romulan parts in her outfit, her lackeys were all wearing Omegaforce gear and such. didn't feel very alien, Not that every episode requires a new slew of npc faction content, but if you wanna start giving us a new outfit in every episode i'd be happy to replay all of them! yay Spacebarbie!
- mission felt oddly short.
It was a valiant attempt to shrug off the shallow storytelling and war-stories of seasons past... but it failed in execution. There was no subtly nor was there an attempt to show the other side of the conflict. It was an Anti-Conservative We're Going To Pusth The Liberal Politik Enjoy It Here Have Several More Helpings If You Want The Gear Set at it's worse.
If I had a call in it, I'd say pull the episode for a rewrite and make it more balanced -- WHY are the conservatives the way they are? What is their story? I know why I voted the way I did and if you shut your reflexive media-driven hate-spew from your noise-hole I can tell you why. And it makes sense when you hear my side of the story. But instead we have more hate more media-driven button pushing and more knee-jerk politic.
I did play the episode a second time to make sure I got a full measure, the Prime Minister's apologizing for everything and her awestruck "Thank you for giving me everything I wanted I so deserve this" attitude does not sit well with me. The Donald Trump hate-monkey character was obvious from the moment we saw him, there was no attempt to disguise this episode as an elaborate attempt to lampoon and bash the president. A chance to engage in wish-fulfillment -- Donald Trump removed from office at gun-point and punished simply because a handfull of people disagree with him.
You know, as an aside I still don't get that. QUITE A FEW people hated Obama for a rather old-fashion and obsolete notion -- that a man of his "kind" could never hold power... But we didn't have calls for opened armed insurrection, assassination and impeachment every time he opened his mouth.. Gosh.
Anyway. That's my opinion on the political side of the story. TL;DR: Nice try but your writers lack the chops to pull off a political story, stick with what you know and write best.
I am also somewhat uncomfortable with the issue that the Lukari were able to reformat an entire planet in moments. Perhaps in time if the Federation hadn't abandoned Genesis tech for political reasons we too would have such a technology... but the resolution seemed way too forced and contrived. Almost convenient. Perhaps there is another wrinkle to this and our Lukari friends are not so naive and innocent..? After all it seems awfully... convenient that they are such experts in protomatter at a time an enemy is using protomatter as a weapon... In a way that is polar opposite to the Lukari's methods. And it seems very convenient that the mad-bombers show up at a politically critical juncture, blow up JUST the one thing that the Lukari have the magical ability to instantly fix... Do tell... how did they have the exact pattern and matrix handy to restore an entire scoured moon at the flip of a switch...
That makes me just a wee bit suspicious right there of our friendly alien Captain's innocent persona.
In the spoiler below is what I would have done to change the mission.
Upon meeting with the Prime Minister, that's when we would get a proper explanation on New Kentar. Establish the fear and contempt caused by their past relationship with the Lukari, and establish that these feelings have been intensified due to the Tzenkethi using weaponry that was directly inspired from Lukari technology. This helps makes the open distrust from characters like the Defence Minister seem a lot more reasonable. After that, it would be best to establish some background on the politics involved in the situation. For example, establish that the Prime Minister has been pushing economic reforms, but a part of this was a mass cut back on military and defence expenses. This in turn causes many to blame the Prime Minister's administration for this disaster, as they would believe that with stronger defences they could have prevented the Tzenkethi attack. With your character acting as a mediator between Kuumaarke and the Kentar, establish that the Lukari can use their protomatter technology to at least restore the Moon to a climate that their people can live in. This wouldn't immediately solve all of New Kentar's current problems, but it would at least give them a way to recover after several years. You could establish some other complications. Perhaps the Prime Minister wants to take credit for the Moons recovery as a way to save her administration, while the Defense Minister insists that they should return to their traditional ways for the time being until the Tzenkethi threat is removed. Show the pros and cons of both stances. To that end, give players the chance to either support the Prime Minister's administration, support the Defense Minister, or support neither. This decision doesn't have to actually matter in later continuity of Star Trek Online, but it at least allows players to act true to their own character's beliefs.
Regardless of who you end up supporting, you would end up going to the moon with Kuumaarke to restore it. Instead of having traditionalist rebels be responsible for the sabotage, establish that it is instead the Tzenkethi. The Tzenkethi sent a few ships to the Kentar Moon to inspect it after their attack, and ensure that their mission was successful. Have a brief stand off with the Tzenkethi, and present the player with the option to either attack them, or try to negotiate (again, because players like to play true to their characters). The negotiation doesn't have to be successful, but you could have a hint in the Tzenkethi dialogue that points towards why they are devastating planets. Have the typical combat against the Tzenkethi, set up the Lukari technology, and then restore the planet. Then end off with some concluding dialogue between the Prime Minister, Defense Minister, and Kuumaarke.
What I did like in this mission was the map design, and the creative use of pre existing assets to create the Kentar. The mission visually looked very nice. It would be nice if we could get some more City environments for ground missions, adventure zones, and PVE queues. I also enjoy getting Ground Sets from feature episodes, since it typically gives me new stuff to give to Boffs and new characters I'm running as they level up.
Add fire extinguishers and insect repellant to the list. Though extinguishers (Terminal Expanse) and flashlights (What Lies Beneath) aren't items anymore, so there's a move in that direction.
Huh? I mean, I get that these are the wrong items for the characters in question, but how does NPCs wearing some item insult characters who don't have them or had to work their way towards them? Cardassians flying Galor class ships insults me because I didn't get one from the lockbox/had to pay for the lockbox?
Still not convinced. How do you know they have not "earned" it? Again, I get the non canon part - but you already mentioned that in another line of your first post which I didn't quote. But NPCs don't "earn" the way players do.