Renewable energy is still decades away as a viable alternative to fossil fuels or nuclear power. States that rely on it tend to cripple their economies and have unreliable power. If it weren't for the massive subsidies given for the use of 'green' power, and the forced penalties on suppliers who don't provide renewable energy, it'd be less popular than it is. Note I'm excluding hydro power as while it's renewable Green groups tend to hate it.
Agreed that there's a contradiction between the energy demands of FTL starships with phasers and shields - I dimly recall reading an article that even a mote of dust impacting at light speed releases the energy of a nuclear bomb, and use of current forms of power.
(a) while technologies are very interdependent, different cultures have, already on earth during history, very different levels in different fields. Just because one civ conquers both the problems of pollution and space travel, others may only get one or the other.
(b) being able to use a technology isn't necessarily the same as using it or wanting to use it. We do have the technology on earth to cover most of our (current) energy needs with renewable energy. However, we don't do it, for different reasons.
(b½) it doesn't even have to be "bad writing" in itself if it were otherwise. Literatur, movies, and nowadays games, exist to tell a "what if" story. Granted, the morals taken from these may be devalued, but the story itself could hold. Not so much within the ST universe, granted, which - in general - tries to follow "hard science unless needed otherwise" and "like reality unless noted differently".
Renewable energy tech is just reaching the point of viability, it could have done so much sooner if it had gotten the R&D support from government subsidies like Carter wanted to do in the 70s but it was delayed. Now that it has reached technical superiority, it is winning in the marketplace despite our version of Traddies trying to hold on to the past. Superior technology can be halted or delayed at the developmental stage, not when it's viable. If a better way is proven, capitalism will eventually choose it for the economic reason of competitive advantage.
Regarding the Kentari, there's no way "chemical and atomic" energy sources are capable of powering high energy weapons able to even scratch the shielding of Federation or Tzenkethi vessels, nor can they support energy shielding strong enough to even stop hand phasers. Either the military has a secret power source (maybe those hardeniite deposits or whatever?) that hasn't filtered down to civilian use yet or those ships should be the equivalent of throwing Sopwith Camels at F-15s. Or, more likely, gameplay overrode story logic.
The Kentari seem to be roughly on par with the UN and MCR from The Expanse. In that series humanity has advanced enough to build interplanetary spaceships armed with kinetic weapons, and colonized several worlds in their solar system, but they're still recovering from damage done to their environment in their industrial age and society is fairly stagnant.
Also, remember that the Kentari evacuated their original homeworld just like the Lukari did. So they clearly do have some FTL ability, just not on the same casual level that we do.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
At this point I feel the need to use the old "money makes the world go round" analogy. It is very money and labor intensive to rebuild a planetary infrastructure. Thus it's not just greed that would cause people to not want to change things.
A really nice mission again. Great story good atmosphere and good mixture of ground and space. Also interesting rewards. I am looking forward to replay it again.
Could just use slightly more puzzel in exchange for some fighting. But thats no big deal.
I got a second play through in last.
Maybe I was tired the other night. But it was quite a bit better than my first impression gave (still think this episode could've been a 2 or 3 part-er considering the nature of the topics).
The Diplomacy scene at the end was still super irritating (everyone is a little too happy - its unbelievable). Not only that, but the VO work there made me cringe. (VO work throughout was good though) Other minor complaint, the Prime Minister voice didn't seem fit her look. But I guess that is all in the Ear of the Beholder.
If that scene could be cut from the mission it would be a lot more believable to me.
Maybe end the mission right before. (when you're flying back towards the planet after saving the moon, and the Prime Minster seems more concerned about the situation and you can hear it in her voice). Then we beam aboard for the Diplomacy scene and the moods have all changed.
We could have easily warped out after getting the final message from the PM on the flight back to the planet.
Also figured out what was bothering me about the way the Kentari Prime Minister looked. Her Teeth. When she smiles or speaks, it looks weird because there is no separation of the upper teeth and bottom teeth, its just a white block in there. and being that her mouth is super wide... it looks weird.
Other then that, this 2nd playthrough was a much better experience.
Speaking of tech, it would be nice if its just a bunch of orbital station platform(say, reskinned turret) and a handful of ships that spam missile instead... or preferbly not have space fight with Kentari, and expanded the ground battle with them instead. They may not have fancy phasers and shield but they got the numbers.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
It's not an assumption, rather it's not giving in to wishful thinking. And "what if" stories work at lot better if they were believable. This one wasn't.
How is "different branches of technology advance at different speeds in different civilizations" wishful thinking? First, it is not "wishful", since it can be a major disadvantage, second, it has happened in the past in real life.
Renewable energy is still decades away as a viable alternative to fossil fuels or nuclear power. States that rely on it tend to cripple their economies and have unreliable power. If it weren't for the massive subsidies given for the use of 'green' power, and the forced penalties on suppliers who don't provide renewable energy, it'd be less popular than it is. Note I'm excluding hydro power as while it's renewable Green groups tend to hate it.
Firstly we would need to define "viable". Yes, the technology does exist. Yes, using it for (almost all) of earth would be expensive and include the need to scale down on other stuff. But the technology to prevent pollution by fossile fuels does exist, which is all I was saying. Also "crippling their economies" - well, northern Europe seems to be doing fine while inching their way up. Also the costs of energy are extremely difficult to actually calculate, since there are major subsidies (renewables, also nuclear in many countries, also coal mining is heavily subsidized a lot to prevent whole regions who build their economy on mining to fall into economic turmoil), and often a lack of taking externalities into account (the costs of pollution and getting rid of it - a problem in a lot of east Asian, especially Chinese, cities, storing nuclear waste for thousands of years won't come cheap either, many renewables use vast amounts of land so opportunity costs show up for not being able to use said land differently).
But again, I was not trying to argue whether we should go green. I was trying to say that the technology does exist if we were willing to sacrifice other stuff than we do now. Which many aren't, and again, I am not trying to argue who is right here, but it doesn't invalidate the point that the technology does exist and we are not using it (as much as we could).
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
We (as in humans) spend trillions (globally) in subsidies that harm the whole planet (like fossil fuels and coal mining) because a fraction of people have invested money in a particular branch and nobody wants to alienate the investors despite making everybody else suffer and pay for it. So there's that.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
While I am enjoying the philosophical debate concerning global resource management and renewable energy sources, I will restrict my comments to the smoke and mirrors episode so as to not delve further off course.
On a positive note I felt that the city environment was quite good. It definitely, for me at least, had that Blade Runner Los Angeles dystopian vibe to it. The neon lights, leaky pipes, vending machines, huddled masses, all added to that feel. I enjoyed wandering around the streets looking at everything. I am hopeful that this map will be used again. Maybe some more doors will be open and our exploration can expand further. Kudos to the designers of the city as this was the highlight of the episode.
Space and ground combat were more of the standard fare with masses of easily defeated enemies that don't last long. This was especially true of the ground portion.
The dialogue is usually where Star Trek Online shines but was extremely weak in this episode. Kuumaarke for instance was radically different here. I understand that she's progressed since 'Sunrise' but her arrogant and demeaning tone upon her arrival in the city was out of character. That arrival was also odd. The Federation's diplomats are beamed to the wrong location and no security forces are sent to safely escort them? Then the obvious and heavy handed political messages being put forth by Cryptic were a bit much. The right is destroying the world but the left can fix it with a touch of a button? On a side note Kuumaarke seemed more upset by a vending machine than the destruction of an entire moon and it's inhabitants.
Overall a substandard attempt that seemed more like fan fiction than an actual Star Trek episode. The reward sets look interesting so I will click through all of the dialogue next time through so I am not bombarded with Cryptic's left wing propaganda a second time.
RIP (2022) : Officer Wilbert Mota, Corporal Charles Galloway, Detective Jason Rivera, Officer Fernando
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
Overall a substandard attempt that seemed more like fan fiction than an actual Star Trek episode. The reward sets look interesting so I will click through all of the dialogue next time through so I am not bombarded with Cryptic's left wing propaganda a second time.
About that left wing slant...
Did you notice the "Liberal" News section background was colored a cool, soothing blue. And the "Conservative/Establishment" news section background was colored an angry Red ?
I happed to notice this "color coding" while going through the news feeds. Maybe this was done on purpose to enforce the liberal messaging.
Not that I'm offended here or anything, I'm a centralist. I try to listen to both sides of a debate.
This mission is actually pretty clever the more I think about it.
I loved the Kentari City map and would like to visit it or similar maps again. Might be nice to see a bit more cleaned up.
The problem of the mission is the relatively heavy handedness of the story and the lack of genuine twists. That is really a recurring problem with Cryptic's stories. There needs to be a genuine surprise or turn of events somewhere in it.
Two things:
1) That the Defense Minister would turn against us was too obvious.
2) There wasn't really a good reason given why the Conservatives where conservative. What was actually good about the way things were done that even the destruction of their previous homeworld convinced them to keep doing it?
Twists could have been:
- The Prime Minister is actually a "Conservative": She's using the conflict to cement her power.
- The Defense Minister turns against us, but successfully, in he replaces the Prime Minister and gets rid of us, so we can't just say "hah, he shot first, we can blow up his ship", and now the Federation and Lukari have a long diplomatic struggle ahead to smooth things out.
- The Defense Minister at least successfully steals a Protomatter Device and plans to use for revenge against the Tzenkethi.
Motivations that could have been presented
- The technology suggested by the "reformers" is not sufficiently proven and actually has caused setbacks and problems (maybe it actually rlies on those crystal formations that prompt the Tzenkheti attack). Relying on refinements of the existing technology and the moon agrictultural project would be more effective.
- The reforms will actually kill a lot of people's jobs, and only make some corporations richer.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Ok... so for fun and flames:
Ships are more important that single people, so we can desintegrate on ground maps, but disable traditionals ships in space?
... to be thruthfull, i'm sure that ships crews were much bigger that the pitifull squads, they throw at me on the moon, but still - it should be easier setting personal weapons on stun, that adjust ships weapons to disable only...
Actually i'm always angry when i got missions with disabling enemy ships, because it makes harder to advance ships mastery, and it's sometimes messes with active skills/powers - like when i tried to clear plasma fires on my ship, and i healed disabled enemy, because now it reads as ally... and it was still targeted.
Mission was fun, and can be done fast, cause most (if not all) cutscenes can be skipped - yay (after 2-5 runs, i really don't need to watch them anymore).
The plot - well it was weird - the idea is good, but the implementation give me weird feeling, like it was shoveling ideas into my head - protect the enviroment (ok), be more tolerant (also ok), but it was somewhat too "condensed"?
Also that chief security official (can't remember that name now) - 5-15 minutes of problems and he goes off to openly rebelling - really? it's that easy ? How did he get to be that high in goverment in that case with all the needed scheming and politics needed normally for this?
Still that episode is fun, short, and rewards looks good
Yeah, I think the episode tried to tell too much story. Talk of "bias" in a wholly constructed fictional tale is obvious nonsense, but I think it's fair to say that the Traditionalists weren't given enough plausible motivation. On the other hand, I loved the newspapers (or space-newspapers, whatever) giving a deeper view into the world. But first contact, ambush, another ambush, planetary genocide, sudden-yet-inevitable-betrayal, and full ecological repair are a lot for one story to hold. The city map was excellent, though.
Plus, it made me feel like a genius for holding onto that Elachi rebreather for so long.
Oh, yeah, the newspaper were great, too.
The story overall was too condensed. But I guess Cryptic doesn't want to dwell more than one episode on a particular place generally, to avoid that people don't like it and then have to ignore the next 3 episodes on them.
But if they can't avoid condensation, they must include some interesting turn of events, and this wasn't really all that surprising.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There needs to be a genuine surprise or turn of events somewhere in it.
And why exactly does this need to be when the real world doesn't normally work on surprising twists, and most Star Trek shows "twists" were easily predictable?
Yeah, story writing needs to strike a balance between chaos and order, and surprise plot twists tend to be a very chaotic element.
And why exactly does this need to be when the real world doesn't normally work on surprising twists,
Trump. Brexit. Apple dropping the headphone jack. We've just had a bunch of surprising twist in the end of season cliffhanger of history. We're not sure if it's going to be renewed for another run yet.
Renewable energy is still decades away as a viable alternative to fossil fuels or nuclear power. States that rely on it tend to cripple their economies and have unreliable power. If it weren't for the massive subsidies given for the use of 'green' power, and the forced penalties on suppliers who don't provide renewable energy, it'd be less popular than it is. Note I'm excluding hydro power as while it's renewable Green groups tend to hate it.
Agreed that there's a contradiction between the energy demands of FTL starships with phasers and shields - I dimly recall reading an article that even a mote of dust impacting at light speed releases the energy of a nuclear bomb, and use of current forms of power.
(a) while technologies are very interdependent, different cultures have, already on earth during history, very different levels in different fields. Just because one civ conquers both the problems of pollution and space travel, others may only get one or the other.
(b) being able to use a technology isn't necessarily the same as using it or wanting to use it. We do have the technology on earth to cover most of our (current) energy needs with renewable energy. However, we don't do it, for different reasons.
(b½) it doesn't even have to be "bad writing" in itself if it were otherwise. Literatur, movies, and nowadays games, exist to tell a "what if" story. Granted, the morals taken from these may be devalued, but the story itself could hold. Not so much within the ST universe, granted, which - in general - tries to follow "hard science unless needed otherwise" and "like reality unless noted differently".
Renewable energy tech is just reaching the point of viability, it could have done so much sooner if it had gotten the R&D support from government subsidies like Carter wanted to do in the 70s but it was delayed. Now that it has reached technical superiority, it is winning in the marketplace despite our version of Traddies trying to hold on to the past. Superior technology can be halted or delayed at the developmental stage, not when it's viable. If a better way is proven, capitalism will eventually choose it for the economic reason of competitive advantage.
Regarding the Kentari, there's no way "chemical and atomic" energy sources are capable of powering high energy weapons able to even scratch the shielding of Federation or Tzenkethi vessels, nor can they support energy shielding strong enough to even stop hand phasers. Either the military has a secret power source (maybe those hardeniite deposits or whatever?) that hasn't filtered down to civilian use yet or those ships should be the equivalent of throwing Sopwith Camels at F-15s. Or, more likely, gameplay overrode story logic.
I think such energy is possible and we had chance, decades ago, when Nikola Telsa was going to give us such a thing, and not cost us a dime, thus freeing us from one of the biggest forms of slavery....the energy cartel/cabal. Why else did that smeghead, JP Morgan, pull the plug...and that other prat, Thomas Edison, try to make Telsa look bad....go as low as torturing animals? Because us becoming free from financial slavery was their worst nightmare.....Edison was a business man than a scientist. So, it is possible we could have been all living better lives is Tesla was not screwed over as he was by those prats with the top hats and cigars.
And I see the opposite regarding capitalism.....big business don't want competition....plus money is always the incentive to PREVENT progress.....big oil being a prime example. Also, look at big pharma.....they don't want to cure you, just to 'treat' you, enough to keep you alive to keep buying expensive pills (which only treat symptoms...not the causes....and have gotte nto the point of labeling symptoms as diseases......have more side effects that will mess you up) and procedures.....like cancer....they are making billions in profit, hand over fist..and we got no cure...yet many people have been using alternative stuff, like cannabis oil, and saying they been cured.....you REALLY think the suits of corporations like Phizer or whatever will simply step aside and give up their profits because something in nature, which you can NOT patent, thus not make money off and be good sports? Pffffft.....don't make me laugh. This video can explain it, and warning...cuss words again, so click at your own risk. ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7P4iFg048k Money is incentive to prevent progress and maintain the status quo. And sadly, profits and wealth seem to matter more than human life. That's my take on it.
It is a fine line between social commentary and pandering to a particular political ideology that already has a hard time distinguishing fiction from reality. This latest Featured Episode was the later.
Yup, doing ANYTHING political is a fine line to walk. If you don't do it right, you just get preachy; which no one likes. This was a bit un-artfully done. When they turn from 'actors' to activists, it's bad. I watched the Daily Show for since Kilborn hosted it, but near the end of Stewart, I had to stop watching. The jokes just went from funny to angry. Same with @Midnight, just stopped DVRing that too. They breath their own exhaust for so long, they forget what's funny & clever and it just turns mean.
The U.S. is basically split 40/20/40. So you get heavy handed politically, you're gonna end up with at least 40% of the population disliking you. It's why celebrities like Michael Jordan never go public with their views. He wants to sell his shoes to everyone, not just the 40-50% that agree with him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back to the FE. Why do the Kentari look like they have 3-4 different species in them? Did 3-4 different people at Cryptic get their hands on different parts of the episode? And I thought the Lukari and Kentari were the same species, just politically different. The old big-mouthed Smurf woman in the Sphere Builder hood, didn't seem to be related. The big headed evil guy was closer but still very different. Sure, Lukari and Kentari look different from being on different worlds for X number of years; I can buy that. But unless you say the Kentari are a Xindi-ish type conglomeration of species, then someone messed up on character creation.
I've never been a big fan of world destroying abilities. The fact that STO has so many fragmented planets in Sector Space annoys me. Sure, Trek has their share of doomsday things, but it's getting a bit silly with "Oh, I can fix that planet, just give me 2 minutes."
Could the 'government traitor' aspect be anymore CLEARLY telegraphed? This story took an ran a marathon with the idiot ball
And I agree with many others that there's a pretty 'meh whatever' attitude to the agricultural moon colony being wiped out - not to mention the "Well, we can fix the Ecosphere in 5 minutes..." bit. hell, they should completely evacuate that polluted homeworld of theirs for an hour and let Kumarke work her Protomatter magic there. I mean it leaves buildings and other infrastructure intact (given what we saw on the Moon Colony); so why not?
I'm tired of these plot 'complications where the underwhelming force of low tech ships threatens that they're going to destroy me, meme. They were getting wiped by the Tzenkethi before we showed up, yet somehow they decide "Oh yes, we can defeat the guys with the more powerful weapon and ship tech...
Overall, this story had a level of subtlety as to the story's 'social message' on the level of TOS episode "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" (read: It was as subtle as a sledgehammer to one's forehead.)
Post edited by crypticarmsman on
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I happed to notice this "color coding" while going through the news feeds. Maybe this was done on purpose to enforce the liberal messaging.
Well, in the US the Republicans (the more right-wing party) are associated with red, the Democratic Party with blue. Which is a bit funny for Europeans where it would be the other way round. But yes, other hues of the respective colors may have a different effect.
2) There wasn't really a good reason given why the Conservatives where conservative. What was actually good about the way things were done that even the destruction of their previous homeworld convinced them to keep doing it?
Well, people have voted or enthused for things actually bad for them in the past, throwing knowledge away for emotions and punishing an obvious scapegoat instead of changing things around. Change also is scary in and of itself to many people. And finally some people may depend on the way things are, since it includes their jobs, and don't see a general progression outweigh their potential personal loss. Having said that, here it would have needed a better explanation, since being in it "for the evulz" makes for bad storywriting.
Overall, this story had a level of subtlety as to the story's 'social message' on the level of TOS episode "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" (read: It was a subtle as a sledgehammer to one's forehead.)
Yeah, a pretty bad episode in that regard. Though given the time it was made maybe a case of some anvils need to be dropped. From today's perspective it seems rather cringeworthy. Would still be educational for some fringe people though.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
The dialogue is usually where Star Trek Online shines but was extremely weak in this episode. Kuumaarke for instance was radically different here. I understand that she's progressed since 'Sunrise' but her arrogant and demeaning tone upon her arrival in the city was out of character. That arrival was also odd. The Federation's diplomats are beamed to the wrong location and no security forces are sent to safely escort them?
My read on it was that Kuumaarke's reaction was exaggerated because these are Kentari - people she's been told stories of how greedy, xenophobic and short-sighted they were since she was born, and they are also the same species, or at least closely related. She does note that some Lukari still hold a grudge against the Kentari for the forced exile.
As to to odd arrival, well, Kentari security forces being sent to safely escort them would be handled by the Minister of Defence, and his office likely provided the co-ordinates too, so I'd rather suspect we were met by security forces sent to handle us... part of the general 'yeah, it isn't a twist the minister of defence betrays you' thing.
I enjoyed the episode. I really enjoyed it and I hope cryptic does more city scenes again. Not every planet has nice clean areas like the fed, rom and kdf. (Though you do have that red light district on the kdf homeplanet). I hope some foundry people do something with that scenery.
I wish we could have done more on the planet, the episode seemed a little short. Compared to some of the episodes in earlier arcs which were longer.
Did and didn't see the political stuff etc. Now if I remember from watching alot of star trek, them doing episodes like this is not a new thing. They always had messages scattered through out the years of episodes. I don't think Cryptic was trying to say something about the current political climate. WE are not the only country/world that has politics. Look at the KDF politics they have a leader who may or may have killed the last one in a not honorable way (if i read the in between the lines stuff correctly). You have those who wanted peace with the fed and those who wanted to fight because they felt like they were getting soft. Now we don't see the color difference between them because well everything is red/orange/grey on their world. They realliy need brighter or at least more colors.
The red and blue I think is just a way for us to see the difference between the two groups of of people. Since blue and red is a color that most people can see clearly is probably why they used them.
Was I surprised by the minister of defense, no and yes. The bells did start to chime when we were in the office but though eh maybe a little too worried. Then the space fight did start the bells ringing. Then again I watch alot of tv and movies so people like him is a known trope.
Kuumaarke's attitude, Well you have to remember she is new to this stuff and she is just reacting. Now in a few years she won't be as vocal.... I am sure when we were all ensigns a year ago we would have the same attitudes. Remember we live in the fed/kdf/rom (player planet) where everything is nice and neat and clean. That is the same life that the Lukari live or at least I assume so. when we first saw the horrors some have to live we were probably very shocked and dismayed. Look how snooty some of the npc's are toward some of our toons so someone being a little not pc is normal. *glares at DS9 NPC*
Though i have to say I am glad to see how well some of my toons vared in the episode. I know now I need to change up some consoles and maybe ships. They always seem a little different on the way they handled npc's. Overall i haven't noticed a difference in the items that were nerfed. Then again I am not one of the dps people, so I wouldn't really notice a difference.
OH i saw someone who suggested why not make the minister a bad guy to. Who knows maybe she is, that would be a interesting twist.
I hope you guys do more episodes like this and the previous. I think we need more exploration episodes (reading and learning about other cultures etc). It is nice to not have to kill everything.
This is true, as so many with money and power use their money and power to keep what they have and gain more of it. Too many entrenched interests fight the future tooth and nail. On the other hand, sometimes capitalism works and disruptive industries win because the economic advantage is insurmountable. We're well on our way to that tipping point for green energy and electric cars, for example.
Problem is with electric cars, you still gotta plug 'em in, meaning into the gird and all, and there's a lot of coal fueled grids right now. Nikola is probably turning in his grave for the past 70+ odd years.
It is a fine line between social commentary and pandering to a particular political ideology that already has a hard time distinguishing fiction from reality. This latest Featured Episode was the later.
Yup, doing ANYTHING political is a fine line to walk. If you don't do it right, you just get preachy; which no one likes. This was a bit un-artfully done. When they turn from 'actors' to activists, it's bad. I watched the Daily Show for since Kilborn hosted it, but near the end of Stewart, I had to stop watching. The jokes just went from funny to angry. Same with @Midnight, just stopped DVRing that too. They breath their own exhaust for so long, they forget what's funny & clever and it just turns mean.
The U.S. is basically split 40/20/40. So you get heavy handed politically, you're gonna end up with at least 40% of the population disliking you. It's why celebrities like Michael Jordan never go public with their views. He wants to sell his shoes to everyone, not just the 40-50% that agree with him.
I suggest turning off the TV all together....95% of TV and media today is TRIBBLE.
And as for celebs....I really don't care about what they say or do not say, since I don't put them on pedestals, and the one will always upset someone, no matter what you say...or don't say. We're in an age where you so much as breathe wrong and someone gets their undies in a bunch.
> @smokebailey said: > > > Problem is with electric cars, you still gotta plug 'em in, meaning into the gird and all, and there's a lot of coal fueled grids right now. Nikola is probably turning in his grave for the past 70+ odd years.
While true it would be a stupid argument against electromobility as a whole. If "not doing perfectly" equals "better don't change anything at all" we get the current geopolitical, neo-conservative mess.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Star Trek has always, always been about social commentary and moralizing delivered with all the subtlety of a brick to the head. Things got a little more nuanced once Gene was no longer in charge, but...
War is Bad, Drugs are Bad, Pollution is Bad, Racism is Bad, Sexism is Hoo Check Out The Legs on That One.
(The last is a significant blind spot of all installments, which you can mostly attribute to the culture surrounding TV and movie production, marketing and consumption from the 60s to the present day. )
In that sense, I submit that "Mirrors and Smoke" is Star Trek at its most authentic. (If only they'd added a completely gratuitous decontamination scene where Kuumaarke and the PC captain strip down to their underwear.)
Okay, it was missing one other thing - I'd have liked the opportunity to comment on the barrier/recognize it for what it really is:
"This isn't a random pile of garbage. It's a trap."
Comments
Agreed that there's a contradiction between the energy demands of FTL starships with phasers and shields - I dimly recall reading an article that even a mote of dust impacting at light speed releases the energy of a nuclear bomb, and use of current forms of power.
Also, remember that the Kentari evacuated their original homeworld just like the Lukari did. So they clearly do have some FTL ability, just not on the same casual level that we do.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
My character Tsin'xing
Could just use slightly more puzzel in exchange for some fighting. But thats no big deal.
Thumbs up. Keep them coming.
Maybe I was tired the other night. But it was quite a bit better than my first impression gave (still think this episode could've been a 2 or 3 part-er considering the nature of the topics).
The Diplomacy scene at the end was still super irritating (everyone is a little too happy - its unbelievable). Not only that, but the VO work there made me cringe. (VO work throughout was good though) Other minor complaint, the Prime Minister voice didn't seem fit her look. But I guess that is all in the Ear of the Beholder.
If that scene could be cut from the mission it would be a lot more believable to me.
Maybe end the mission right before. (when you're flying back towards the planet after saving the moon, and the Prime Minster seems more concerned about the situation and you can hear it in her voice). Then we beam aboard for the Diplomacy scene and the moods have all changed.
We could have easily warped out after getting the final message from the PM on the flight back to the planet.
Also figured out what was bothering me about the way the Kentari Prime Minister looked. Her Teeth. When she smiles or speaks, it looks weird because there is no separation of the upper teeth and bottom teeth, its just a white block in there. and being that her mouth is super wide... it looks weird.
Other then that, this 2nd playthrough was a much better experience.
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
How is "different branches of technology advance at different speeds in different civilizations" wishful thinking? First, it is not "wishful", since it can be a major disadvantage, second, it has happened in the past in real life.
Firstly we would need to define "viable". Yes, the technology does exist. Yes, using it for (almost all) of earth would be expensive and include the need to scale down on other stuff. But the technology to prevent pollution by fossile fuels does exist, which is all I was saying. Also "crippling their economies" - well, northern Europe seems to be doing fine while inching their way up. Also the costs of energy are extremely difficult to actually calculate, since there are major subsidies (renewables, also nuclear in many countries, also coal mining is heavily subsidized a lot to prevent whole regions who build their economy on mining to fall into economic turmoil), and often a lack of taking externalities into account (the costs of pollution and getting rid of it - a problem in a lot of east Asian, especially Chinese, cities, storing nuclear waste for thousands of years won't come cheap either, many renewables use vast amounts of land so opportunity costs show up for not being able to use said land differently).
But again, I was not trying to argue whether we should go green. I was trying to say that the technology does exist if we were willing to sacrifice other stuff than we do now. Which many aren't, and again, I am not trying to argue who is right here, but it doesn't invalidate the point that the technology does exist and we are not using it (as much as we could).
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On a positive note I felt that the city environment was quite good. It definitely, for me at least, had that Blade Runner Los Angeles dystopian vibe to it. The neon lights, leaky pipes, vending machines, huddled masses, all added to that feel. I enjoyed wandering around the streets looking at everything. I am hopeful that this map will be used again. Maybe some more doors will be open and our exploration can expand further. Kudos to the designers of the city as this was the highlight of the episode.
Space and ground combat were more of the standard fare with masses of easily defeated enemies that don't last long. This was especially true of the ground portion.
The dialogue is usually where Star Trek Online shines but was extremely weak in this episode. Kuumaarke for instance was radically different here. I understand that she's progressed since 'Sunrise' but her arrogant and demeaning tone upon her arrival in the city was out of character. That arrival was also odd. The Federation's diplomats are beamed to the wrong location and no security forces are sent to safely escort them? Then the obvious and heavy handed political messages being put forth by Cryptic were a bit much. The right is destroying the world but the left can fix it with a touch of a button? On a side note Kuumaarke seemed more upset by a vending machine than the destruction of an entire moon and it's inhabitants.
Overall a substandard attempt that seemed more like fan fiction than an actual Star Trek episode. The reward sets look interesting so I will click through all of the dialogue next time through so I am not bombarded with Cryptic's left wing propaganda a second time.
Arroyos, Officer John Painter, K9 Jedi, K9 Maya, Deputy Constable Neil Adams, Officer Jorge
David Alvarado, Sergeant Joshua Cordell, Trooper Martin Mack, Trooper Branden Sisca,
Lieutenant William Lebo
About that left wing slant...
Did you notice the "Liberal" News section background was colored a cool, soothing blue. And the "Conservative/Establishment" news section background was colored an angry Red ?
I happed to notice this "color coding" while going through the news feeds. Maybe this was done on purpose to enforce the liberal messaging.
Not that I'm offended here or anything, I'm a centralist. I try to listen to both sides of a debate.
This mission is actually pretty clever the more I think about it.
The problem of the mission is the relatively heavy handedness of the story and the lack of genuine twists. That is really a recurring problem with Cryptic's stories. There needs to be a genuine surprise or turn of events somewhere in it.
Two things:
1) That the Defense Minister would turn against us was too obvious.
2) There wasn't really a good reason given why the Conservatives where conservative. What was actually good about the way things were done that even the destruction of their previous homeworld convinced them to keep doing it?
Twists could have been:
- The Prime Minister is actually a "Conservative": She's using the conflict to cement her power.
- The Defense Minister turns against us, but successfully, in he replaces the Prime Minister and gets rid of us, so we can't just say "hah, he shot first, we can blow up his ship", and now the Federation and Lukari have a long diplomatic struggle ahead to smooth things out.
- The Defense Minister at least successfully steals a Protomatter Device and plans to use for revenge against the Tzenkethi.
Motivations that could have been presented
- The technology suggested by the "reformers" is not sufficiently proven and actually has caused setbacks and problems (maybe it actually rlies on those crystal formations that prompt the Tzenkheti attack). Relying on refinements of the existing technology and the moon agrictultural project would be more effective.
- The reforms will actually kill a lot of people's jobs, and only make some corporations richer.
The story overall was too condensed. But I guess Cryptic doesn't want to dwell more than one episode on a particular place generally, to avoid that people don't like it and then have to ignore the next 3 episodes on them.
But if they can't avoid condensation, they must include some interesting turn of events, and this wasn't really all that surprising.
My character Tsin'xing
Trump. Brexit. Apple dropping the headphone jack. We've just had a bunch of surprising twist in the end of season cliffhanger of history. We're not sure if it's going to be renewed for another run yet.
I think such energy is possible and we had chance, decades ago, when Nikola Telsa was going to give us such a thing, and not cost us a dime, thus freeing us from one of the biggest forms of slavery....the energy cartel/cabal. Why else did that smeghead, JP Morgan, pull the plug...and that other prat, Thomas Edison, try to make Telsa look bad....go as low as torturing animals? Because us becoming free from financial slavery was their worst nightmare.....Edison was a business man than a scientist. So, it is possible we could have been all living better lives is Tesla was not screwed over as he was by those prats with the top hats and cigars.
And I see the opposite regarding capitalism.....big business don't want competition....plus money is always the incentive to PREVENT progress.....big oil being a prime example. Also, look at big pharma.....they don't want to cure you, just to 'treat' you, enough to keep you alive to keep buying expensive pills (which only treat symptoms...not the causes....and have gotte nto the point of labeling symptoms as diseases......have more side effects that will mess you up) and procedures.....like cancer....they are making billions in profit, hand over fist..and we got no cure...yet many people have been using alternative stuff, like cannabis oil, and saying they been cured.....you REALLY think the suits of corporations like Phizer or whatever will simply step aside and give up their profits because something in nature, which you can NOT patent, thus not make money off and be good sports? Pffffft.....don't make me laugh. This video can explain it, and warning...cuss words again, so click at your own risk. --->
Yup, doing ANYTHING political is a fine line to walk. If you don't do it right, you just get preachy; which no one likes. This was a bit un-artfully done. When they turn from 'actors' to activists, it's bad. I watched the Daily Show for since Kilborn hosted it, but near the end of Stewart, I had to stop watching. The jokes just went from funny to angry. Same with @Midnight, just stopped DVRing that too. They breath their own exhaust for so long, they forget what's funny & clever and it just turns mean.
The U.S. is basically split 40/20/40. So you get heavy handed politically, you're gonna end up with at least 40% of the population disliking you. It's why celebrities like Michael Jordan never go public with their views. He wants to sell his shoes to everyone, not just the 40-50% that agree with him.
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Back to the FE. Why do the Kentari look like they have 3-4 different species in them? Did 3-4 different people at Cryptic get their hands on different parts of the episode? And I thought the Lukari and Kentari were the same species, just politically different. The old big-mouthed Smurf woman in the Sphere Builder hood, didn't seem to be related. The big headed evil guy was closer but still very different. Sure, Lukari and Kentari look different from being on different worlds for X number of years; I can buy that. But unless you say the Kentari are a Xindi-ish type conglomeration of species, then someone messed up on character creation.
I've never been a big fan of world destroying abilities. The fact that STO has so many fragmented planets in Sector Space annoys me. Sure, Trek has their share of doomsday things, but it's getting a bit silly with "Oh, I can fix that planet, just give me 2 minutes."
And I agree with many others that there's a pretty 'meh whatever' attitude to the agricultural moon colony being wiped out - not to mention the "Well, we can fix the Ecosphere in 5 minutes..." bit. hell, they should completely evacuate that polluted homeworld of theirs for an hour and let Kumarke work her Protomatter magic there. I mean it leaves buildings and other infrastructure intact (given what we saw on the Moon Colony); so why not?
I'm tired of these plot 'complications where the underwhelming force of low tech ships threatens that they're going to destroy me, meme. They were getting wiped by the Tzenkethi before we showed up, yet somehow they decide "Oh yes, we can defeat the guys with the more powerful weapon and ship tech...
Overall, this story had a level of subtlety as to the story's 'social message' on the level of TOS episode "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" (read: It was as subtle as a sledgehammer to one's forehead.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Well, in the US the Republicans (the more right-wing party) are associated with red, the Democratic Party with blue. Which is a bit funny for Europeans where it would be the other way round. But yes, other hues of the respective colors may have a different effect.
Well, people have voted or enthused for things actually bad for them in the past, throwing knowledge away for emotions and punishing an obvious scapegoat instead of changing things around. Change also is scary in and of itself to many people. And finally some people may depend on the way things are, since it includes their jobs, and don't see a general progression outweigh their potential personal loss. Having said that, here it would have needed a better explanation, since being in it "for the evulz" makes for bad storywriting.
Yeah, a pretty bad episode in that regard. Though given the time it was made maybe a case of some anvils need to be dropped. From today's perspective it seems rather cringeworthy. Would still be educational for some fringe people though.
As to to odd arrival, well, Kentari security forces being sent to safely escort them would be handled by the Minister of Defence, and his office likely provided the co-ordinates too, so I'd rather suspect we were met by security forces sent to handle us... part of the general 'yeah, it isn't a twist the minister of defence betrays you' thing.
I wish we could have done more on the planet, the episode seemed a little short. Compared to some of the episodes in earlier arcs which were longer.
Did and didn't see the political stuff etc. Now if I remember from watching alot of star trek, them doing episodes like this is not a new thing. They always had messages scattered through out the years of episodes. I don't think Cryptic was trying to say something about the current political climate. WE are not the only country/world that has politics. Look at the KDF politics they have a leader who may or may have killed the last one in a not honorable way (if i read the in between the lines stuff correctly). You have those who wanted peace with the fed and those who wanted to fight because they felt like they were getting soft. Now we don't see the color difference between them because well everything is red/orange/grey on their world. They realliy need brighter or at least more colors.
The red and blue I think is just a way for us to see the difference between the two groups of of people. Since blue and red is a color that most people can see clearly is probably why they used them.
Was I surprised by the minister of defense, no and yes. The bells did start to chime when we were in the office but though eh maybe a little too worried. Then the space fight did start the bells ringing. Then again I watch alot of tv and movies so people like him is a known trope.
Kuumaarke's attitude, Well you have to remember she is new to this stuff and she is just reacting. Now in a few years she won't be as vocal.... I am sure when we were all ensigns a year ago we would have the same attitudes. Remember we live in the fed/kdf/rom (player planet) where everything is nice and neat and clean. That is the same life that the Lukari live or at least I assume so. when we first saw the horrors some have to live we were probably very shocked and dismayed. Look how snooty some of the npc's are toward some of our toons so someone being a little not pc is normal. *glares at DS9 NPC*
Though i have to say I am glad to see how well some of my toons vared in the episode. I know now I need to change up some consoles and maybe ships. They always seem a little different on the way they handled npc's. Overall i haven't noticed a difference in the items that were nerfed. Then again I am not one of the dps people, so I wouldn't really notice a difference.
OH i saw someone who suggested why not make the minister a bad guy to. Who knows maybe she is, that would be a interesting twist.
I hope you guys do more episodes like this and the previous. I think we need more exploration episodes (reading and learning about other cultures etc). It is nice to not have to kill everything.
Problem is with electric cars, you still gotta plug 'em in, meaning into the gird and all, and there's a lot of coal fueled grids right now. Nikola is probably turning in his grave for the past 70+ odd years.
I suggest turning off the TV all together....95% of TV and media today is TRIBBLE.
And as for celebs....I really don't care about what they say or do not say, since I don't put them on pedestals, and the one will always upset someone, no matter what you say...or don't say. We're in an age where you so much as breathe wrong and someone gets their undies in a bunch.
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> Problem is with electric cars, you still gotta plug 'em in, meaning into the gird and all, and there's a lot of coal fueled grids right now. Nikola is probably turning in his grave for the past 70+ odd years.
While true it would be a stupid argument against electromobility as a whole. If "not doing perfectly" equals "better don't change anything at all" we get the current geopolitical, neo-conservative mess.
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War is Bad, Drugs are Bad, Pollution is Bad, Racism is Bad, Sexism is Hoo Check Out The Legs on That One.
(The last is a significant blind spot of all installments, which you can mostly attribute to the culture surrounding TV and movie production, marketing and consumption from the 60s to the present day.
In that sense, I submit that "Mirrors and Smoke" is Star Trek at its most authentic. (If only they'd added a completely gratuitous decontamination scene where Kuumaarke and the PC captain strip down to their underwear.)
Okay, it was missing one other thing - I'd have liked the opportunity to comment on the barrier/recognize it for what it really is:
"This isn't a random pile of garbage. It's a trap."