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Holy Nerf to Plasmonic Leech Batman!!

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    tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    Maybe they realised that the majority of the playerbase are not DPS, Op'd, PvE Vaping monsters that nuke maps within secs to a few mins, and realised that targeting nerfs towards that end of the spectrum was just plain stupid.
    The vast majority of the playerbase are within the 0-25k DPS range. Nerfing skills into the ground would have had a huge impact to the majority rather than the minority and i could see regarding the public queues another Delta Rising brewing where those guys can no longer pull their weight and the higher DPS spectrum players go back into private queues. Or was Delta Rising nothing more than incorrect reporting rather than empty queues ?

    Changes should be targeted toward the high end, since they are doing that whole-map-vaping thing you allude to. Anything targeted toward well enough toward them won't really affect 0-25k, since they were not stacking those tricks anyway. Some tac, for example, using an event ship with a mix of spire and non-spire consoles, no embassy consoles, and standard engineering consoles like armor who's doing 15k with mk12 purple beams, fore/aft torps, and both BO and FAW is gonna see next to no change...maybe they go to 13k, the 2k diff from which won't affect the completion time of a run.
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    rist30rist30 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    pff... last time I was remotely interested in dps was about 2 years ago. Fired up parser and did 27k. Without plasmonic leech, without lobby consoles, without zen/box traits... on a rom tac captain with mkiv VR rom plasma DHC's, in a pug. Top dps in that pug as well.

    Claims that, with new changes, dps will go to oblivion or that captains, especially roms, won't be able to survive or that low dps peeps will take biggest hit, are not even remotely true.
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.

    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.
    Uh, that seems unlikely. I doubt that the majority of the game population actually went and built their ships around exploiting Leech....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    > @markhawkman said:
    > ussvaliant#6064 wrote: »
    >
    > I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.
    >
    >
    >
    > Uh, that seems unlikely. I doubt that the majority of the game population actually went and built their ships around exploiting Leech....

    Sorry but since when was using a freely available console that's been in game for x years suddenly an exploit ?.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Exploiting leech? The console has been basically unchanged for years. How is it an exploit?
    Tza0PEl.png
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    taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.

    PUGs are still a bloodbath.
    Been doing many PUGs for ISA, CSA and KSA leading up to the 25th.
    ISA has taken an average 5-10mins to complete. Not one of these PUGs were of the magical variety; "1min ISAs" people so like to bring up around here, and scream about.
    Not one. I've done at least 3 rounds a day to make sure I'm being thorough.

    CSA 5-10mins average.
    KSA 7-15mins

    Point being, the general player base of STO has been awful all along. No amount of nerfs will make them any worse then they are currently. Which is already bottom of the barrel pathetic Bad.

    Most Low DPS Pug players are more then happy to be carried through adv. flying their hero ship, without a clue in the world about gaming, so long as they are rewarded FULLY for their meaningless contributions in adv (or even elite) queues.
    It's no surprise when they start swearing at people in a failing mission. Until you copy/paste the parse into chat, and show them they're only doing 2.5k DPS themselves (heck, some ppl do more DPS on GROUND then that). Then they clam up real quick and usually rage quit. Leaving the team in even more dire straits then when they had started.

    That's part of the problem of the Trek IP. It's broad appeal brings in too many non-gamer types who have absolutely no clue, and zero desire to get better, so long as they're looking pretty in their hero ships.
    They pollute the public queues for everyone. And will continue to do so at a similar clip after the nerfs go live.


    I've also found these same Low DPS'ers are the first people to scream for nerfs. They also seem to get a sick pleasure out of ruining the gear of others.
    They're truly a sad breed and a cancer on the PUG PvE system.

    We should have Match Making for PUGs. So we can stick all the freeloading (shouldn't be in adv) type players together and let them fail over and over again.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Not what I meant. I meant the people who would supercharge their Drain just for the console since it used to boost the bonus power you'd get to ridiculous amounts.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I> @coldnapalm said:
    > ussvaliant#6064 wrote: »
    >
    > I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm sorry...but i already have to carry the vast majority of pugs now. That won't change after the change...at all. If you are worried that the people who carry the pugs now won't be able to after the change, don't worry...they will. And if you are really worried, be the one who carries the pugs. It's not that hard.

    For the most part I do carry pugs in the Borg stfs I run. Problem is I get nerfed they get nerfed can I still do it. Sto needs casual play ofc it shouldn't be to easy.

    But to mirror what others have said bad players will always be bad players nerfs or not. Common or epic gear.

    Guess when the 25tg comes I'll just have to adapt as I've done since I started playing. And there's always helpful folks in the dps numbers channels to get build advice off

    I tend to worry to much about things sometimes
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.


    Yeah.

    Also, the opposite of any alleged 'fear mongering' is pretending nothing will change. Much will. APA alone will be reduced to 20 secs (from 30), you can no longer enjoy the sizeable extra resists from the weekly Research Combat Boost project, etc. I think ppl in the 0-25k segment will find the new reality painful; and the DrainX folks will feel downright neutered. But, so close to the actual date, I'm just going to wait and see.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    @meimeitoo you're missing the point entirely.

    The balance changes target equipment and abilities that are broken, some are out of reach or not if interest to the majority in this game.
    The low DPSers and your run of the mill players don't use plasma consoles, kemocite, plasmonic and probably don't even stack buffs in the correct order. Plasmonic is the only broken thing in my PvE build arbiter and I get 75k DPS. Imagine what I'd get if I used broken cheese. But I know the balance changes will hardly affect my build because I only use 1 broken/unbalanced piece of equipment.
    The same will be true for people like me.

    The only ones who have to worry are the players that rely heavily on broken equipment/abilities and the elite.
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    taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User

    The only ones who have to worry are the players that rely heavily on broken equipment/abilities and the elite.

    Nah, DPS'ers have no worries whatsoever. They'll just migrate over to the next hot meta trend and continue to steamroll every piece of content the game can offer.
    Will be as simple and effortless as re-jigging their console layouts.


    Oh and we're sure to see the power taken away, sold back to us over the next year. :mrgreen:

    Then we can have this "Balance" discussion all over again. Hooray !
    Rinse, repeat and lather with heavy DPS.

    The major problem with this game is that we don't have elite content for every queue. And the fact that rewards are completely out of whack based on time to complete. It's no wonder most people chose to do adv over and over again.

    Space queues could take a lesson from Ground queues in terms of difficulty level/time to completion versus reward.

    If we had proper Elites for every queue with balanced rewards, I wouldn't give the balancing of power a second thought.
    But if we continue down this path of Adv. only queues, well I find this whole effort to rebalance anything pointless, and disingenuous.

    How can one say something or other is too powerful when there is no proper arena to test such theories (Elites) ?
    How can something be too powerful when a variety of builds (having absolutely nothing to do with leech or exploders) are themselves wiping maps in about the same amount of time as Exploder/leech dopers ?

    It all seems disingenuous to me. And smacks of money grab when they'll sell us that power back over the next year.

    We'll be right back to where we started this time next year. Perhaps in an even worse position in terms of DPS vs Adv difficulty.

    So to me, this whole rebalancing is a waste of time, money and manpower. They could be working on actual content, or be copy/pasting adv queues into Elite queues as a start, instead of investing so much time into something that will be wiped away in less then a year by the reselling of power.

    Besides, we were also told the "Skill Tree Revamp" would help alleviate some of the powercreep issues.
    What happened though ? The Skill Tree Revamp ended up increasing everyone's DPS. Not lowering it. LOL

    So forgive me when I say I don't buy what they're selling.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.
    Yeah.

    Also, the opposite of any alleged 'fear mongering' is pretending nothing will change. Much will. APA alone will be reduced to 20 secs (from 30), you can no longer enjoy the sizeable extra resists from the weekly Research Combat Boost project, etc. I think ppl in the 0-25k segment will find the new reality painful; and the DrainX folks will feel downright neutered. But, so close to the actual date, I'm just going to wait and see.
    Speccing DrainX to maximize the effect of Leech is not the same as actually using DrainX.

    I've been pondering using a build with the Nandi trait and Tyken's. The goal of course is to drain so much power from enemies that their systems shut down completely. :p Leech+FaW would also help nicely.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I'm not here to fear monger i'm just genuinely concerned that come the 25th, the game i'm enjoying now doesn't disappear behind having to make private matches to maximize reward because PUG's once again have become a bloodbath of failure and frustration.
    Yeah.

    Also, the opposite of any alleged 'fear mongering' is pretending nothing will change. Much will. APA alone will be reduced to 20 secs (from 30), you can no longer enjoy the sizeable extra resists from the weekly Research Combat Boost project, etc. I think ppl in the 0-25k segment will find the new reality painful; and the DrainX folks will feel downright neutered. But, so close to the actual date, I'm just going to wait and see.
    Speccing DrainX to maximize the effect of Leech is not the same as actually using DrainX..

    Why not?! Sounds exactly like what DrainX was made for. Of course, now that ppl need a rationale to nerf, DrainX suddenly, allegedly was just meant for Energy Siphon and such, and using it for the Leech is now miraculously deemed unintended. Whereas Leech really was the console, par excellence, and for years, to use DrainX effectively.
    I've been pondering using a build with the Nandi trait and Tyken's. The goal of course is to drain so much power from enemies that their systems shut down completely. :p Leech+FaW would also help nicely.

    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.

    People with really high DrainX (meaning something like 500+) in The Science Channel have drained cubes and Terok Nors and what-nots empty and offline. Not too easy to do and just blasting them into pieces with raw DPS is much more efficient, but it can be done. If you're not willing to take my word on it, I can make a vid on weekend when I have time.
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.

    You're right NPC's cannot be drained of all power in the modern game their resistance to drain was increased several years back, But !, years ago and i'm talking 5-6 years ago a wing of Power Siphon Drones (When carriers were KDF only) had the ability to drain the Tactical Cubes in Infected where their shields/engines and weapons were visably offline and those Siphon Drones made the Cubes sitting ducks. That was back in the day where a Tactical Cube was a thing to fear.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.

    People with really high DrainX (meaning something like 500+) in The Science Channel have drained cubes and Terok Nors and what-nots empty and offline. Not too easy to do and just blasting them into pieces with raw DPS is much more efficient, but it can be done. If you're not willing to take my word on it, I can make a vid on weekend when I have time.


    No, it's fine, I believe you. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    i would like to point out that, in addition to buffing damage, health and other things, cryptic also buffed DRAIN on applicable pets...depending on just how much the drain was buffed, we could easily see the return of lifeless tac cubes from being sucked on by a full wing of elite siphon drones​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.
    People with really high DrainX (meaning something like 500+) in The Science Channel have drained cubes and Terok Nors and what-nots empty and offline. Not too easy to do and just blasting them into pieces with raw DPS is much more efficient, but it can be done. If you're not willing to take my word on it, I can make a vid on weekend when I have time.
    It's also worth pointing out that use of a single drain is not likely to work as well as using several. For example, a sci(with rift and siphon)/full carrier with siphon drones, Leech, and polaron weapons.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    Sounds like a job for the Breen carrier. :P I may just look into a drain build.
    18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    yeah, plesh breks are another pet that should be getting 'supper-bosted' in the drain department, since they were already damn good drainers before - assuming their energy dissipators actually landed​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    Except it doesn't really work that way. NPC's can't be truly drained the way players can. NPC's basically just cheat: you can drain them, to a certain degree, and that's it (although you still get the power from them). But I've never seen like a Borg Cube shut down because of power drainage (vid, or it didn't happen). If by 'enemies' you meant players (in PvP), then that's a different story, of course.

    People with really high DrainX (meaning something like 500+) in The Science Channel have drained cubes and Terok Nors and what-nots empty and offline. Not too easy to do and just blasting them into pieces with raw DPS is much more efficient, but it can be done. If you're not willing to take my word on it, I can make a vid on weekend when I have time.

    make the video!! make the video!!! (but only tell people how you did it if they bother to ask.)

    Alright, enjoy! :)
    https://youtu.be/3KIc7trvXuI
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    ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User

    Drain is overpowered please rebalance this. The bare faced cheek of it, to drain a NPC and leave it helpless.

    "Think of the NPC's oh ! will somebody please think of the NPC's"
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
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    lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User

    Drain is overpowered please rebalance this. The bare faced cheek of it, to drain a NPC and leave it helpless.

    "Think of the NPC's oh ! will somebody please think of the NPC's"

    LOL.

    More drained NPC skulls for the drain throne!!!!

    That run was actually easier than one with a full on tank build to take aggro. I know we had a tank in there of sorts but the enemies aren't a threat when their guns shoot you with zero damage or their shields are down all the time.

    Good times.
    SulMatuul.png
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