Holy Nerf to Plasmonic Leech Batman!!

newromulan

I have to say bravo. Cutting it to a max boost of 6 points per subsystem is a good start toward cutting power leap. The power levels were way out of control in the game.

Now please work on the Tac captain abilities buffing exotic damage ;-)

Unknown

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jaguarskx

Nooooooooo!!!!!

I'm telling mommy!!!!

dracounguis

I got a one of those things. Kinda glad I'm not 'forced' to use it anymore.
Got 2 more in the bank. Guess I should have sold them before now.

salazarraze

Before now? They sell for around 3M. There was a time when they sold for 80M plus.

dracounguis

salazarraze wrote: »

Before now? They sell for around 3M. There was a time when they sold for 80M plus.

Yup, sat on 'em for way too long. Always thought I'd use them, but never did.

peterconnorfirst

Here the little detail that was left out in patch notes by accident I’m sure.

crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »

Thank you for pointing this out.

Here is the change notes that should have been listed:
Plasmonic Leech:

• The self-buff from this power has had its amount reduced and no longer scales
• The drain inflicted on the target has been decreased
• Resolved an issue that caused targets to excessively resist the drain
• Updated description to be more accurate.

The targeted drain should be as effective before the patch as it was before due to the odd nature of how it was being resisted.
The self-buff is very noticeably down and intentional.

Here the justification to adjust a console that has been in game since forever.

crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »

Plasmonic Leech on Tribble gives a self buff of +6 power to all subsystems, for a total of +24 power. That is close to 5 times the power level increase a MK XIV Gold +Power console gives. That is still an absurd disparity. The fact that players are stacking [Drain] consoles solely to buff their own power levels is also not how any of this should be working. Drain Expertise is intended to buff your ability to debuff your enemies, and your ability to resist that same set of debuffs. The current state of using Leech and then stacking Drain Expertise to buff your power levels is very far outside of what the design intent of Drain Expertise is, and Flow Capacitors before that.

The changes is hurting but it’s not as if DPSer would still stack that much drain x for the leech anyway nowadays. It’s also not the only way of power management around.

I think the change hurts much more those who put drain stuff from sci to work.

Whatever, when it comes to nerfs we are all equal, aren’t we?

dracounguis

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Whatever, when it comes to nerfs we are all equal, aren’t we?

I wonder if we're getting a skill point refund w/ this combat redesign?
Cryptic probably should, if only to limit the whining on the forums.

peterconnorfirst

dracounguis wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Whatever, when it comes to nerfs we are all equal, aren’t we?

I wonder if we're getting a skill point refund w/ this combat redesign?
Cryptic probably should, if only to limit the whining on the forums.

We are likely to get a free respec, yes. Sec, I see if I can find it.

crypticspartan#0627 wrote: »

Yes, players should get a free retrain when this change goes live.

There you go.

As far as the wining part is concerned they may keep their respect tokens all they want. They only cost a few bucks anyway.

What I don’t appreciate is being put into the role of the longest beta tester in the gaming industry.

If they feel the need to change powers they may do so. When it comes to things players dedicated their efforts into like gear or expensive traits and such I fully understand their disappointment.

angrytarg

The change makes sense but does hit drain builds harder than DPS tacs who don't really have to rely on PL power due to all the other stuff they can have. This change however, plus the reduction in firing cycle haste for turrets (3->5s) severly hits drain turret builds, though - and I would assume those were hardly a "problem" before.​​

peterconnorfirst

angrytarg wrote: »

The change makes sense but does hit drain builds harder than DPS tacs who don't really have to rely on PL power due to all the other stuff they can have. This change however, plus the reduction in firing cycle haste for turrets (3->5s) severly hits drain turret builds, though - and I would assume those were hardly a "problem" before.​​

They do not care about that. They only care about not to let get players away cheap with a potent way for energy management.

If you want power worth 80 bucks you may pay 80 bucks. If you are only willing to pay 5 bucks you only get for 5 bucks.

nikeix

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

What I don’t appreciate is being put into the role of the longest beta tester in the gaming industry.

Do you play other MMOs? I mean ANY of them? Serious question.

peterconnorfirst

nikeix wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

What I don’t appreciate is being put into the role of the longest beta tester in the gaming industry.

Do you play other MMOs? I mean ANY of them? Serious question.

I did and I don’t care about how they handle it. Changing close to 7 year’s old gear even in a free to play game just because it does not generate revenue anymore is distasteful no matter what you play.

Especially when doing it under the false pretense of some class balancing lol.

nikeix

You know the name of this pass is not "Class Balance" right? And that the Plasmonic leech is the single most used console in the entire game? Which falls quite neatly under the header "space balance".

Disappointment is the distance between bad expectations and reality. Your expectations the game will be and should be completely static are borderline nonsensical. But hey, if you think inertia should be single most dominant force in game design, you might want to try chess.

peterconnorfirst

nikeix wrote: »

You know the name of this pass is not "Class Balance" right? And that the Plasmonic leech is the single most used console in the entire game? Which falls quite neatly under the header "space balance".

Disappointment is the distance between bad expectations and reality. Your expectations the game will be and should be completely static are borderline nonsensical. But hey, if you think inertia should be single most dominant force in game design, you might want to try chess.

You do realize that today’s best stuff will just be replaced by tomorrows best stuff or do u fool yourself into believing that all items in STO will be of equal gain?

avoozuul

And so the downfall of plasmonic leech commences, the lower in price since the lockbox adding of it was only the start.

peterconnorfirst

reyan01 wrote: »

dracounguis wrote: »

salazarraze wrote: »

Before now? They sell for around 3M. There was a time when they sold for 80M plus.

Yup, sat on 'em for way too long. Always thought I'd use them, but never did.

Well, anyone with any to sell should do so quickly, as I suspect that once the general playerbase gets wind of the change the leech's value will take a REAL hit.

I would not worry that much. I think that even if those changes go live the leech will still be one of the best to slot consoles; This is especially due to the fact that all ships in game get basically 2-5 new free console slots after the embassy consoles have been reduced to uselessness.

In it's present form the leech nerf will hurt those the most who made dedicated sci drain builds.

szim

If a console is an absolute must-have on almost every ship and build, it's overpowered. Plasmonic leech is still gonna be quite effective as part of a drain build.

And keep in mind that boosts from power levels above 100 are gonna get nerfed as well. Having maximum power levels might not be as important after the update as it is now.

nikeix

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

You do realize that today’s best stuff will just be replaced by tomorrows best stuff or do u fool yourself into believing that all items in STO will be of equal gain?

You do realize the point of a balance pass isn't to make there be no best? Perfect balance is a direction you try to move towards, not the measure of success. The real purpose is to close the gap between best and second best, between best and average. The word you'll usually hear is "normalize" performance.

And by that standard, things are coming along nicely.

nephitis

I hope they increase the scaling a bit for engine power levels. That is to say, the speed benefit per power unit.

nikephorus

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

nikeix wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

You do realize that today’s best stuff will just be replaced by tomorrows best stuff or do u fool yourself into believing that all items in STO will be of equal gain?

You do realize the point of a balance pass isn't to make there be no best? Perfect balance is a direction you try to move towards, not the measure of success. The real purpose is to close the gap between best and second best, between best and average. The word you'll usually hear is "normalize" performance.

And by that standard, things are coming along nicely.

I do get the part they are trying to sell to players in the blog about fun and balance at all.

Unfortunately the thing I get as well is that precisely all the things that are cheap and good get hit in order to open the door to stuff that is also good but much more expensive.

I have been around here for 5 years. I’m quite certain. Normalization is the last thing that will take place over the adjustments.

Someone else who gets it.

peterconnorfirst

nikeix wrote: »

You do realize the point of a balance pass isn't to make there be no best? Perfect balance is a direction you try to move towards, not the measure of success. The real purpose is to close the gap between best and second best, between best and average. The word you'll usually hear is "normalize" performance.

And by that standard, things are coming along nicely.

I do get the part they are trying to sell to players in the blog about fun and balance at all.

Unfortunately the thing I get as well is that precisely all the things that are cheap and good get hit in order to open the door to stuff that is also good but much more expensive.

I have been around here for 5 years. I’m quite certain. Normalization is the last thing that will take place over the adjustments

jslyn

Does anyone know if the Leech's hit to enemy power levels also now a fixed -6? Or do Drain Consoles still scale the drop for them?

nikeix

jslyn wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Leech's hit to enemy power levels also now a fixed -6? Or do Drain Consoles still scale the drop for them?

The person who initially found the changes evidently tried a range of DrainX values while testing the self-buff, and didn't mention the drain to target not scaling. Their screen shot also showed the drain to target inthe tool tip was MUCH higher than the bonus to self. Combined that with CrypticSpartan's comment-

"The targeted drain should be as effective before the patch as it was before due to the odd nature of how it was being resisted."

-I believe drain to target still scales with DrainX.

It's on my list of things to check personally once I'm done patching Tribble.

jslyn

nikeix wrote: »

The person who initially found the changes evidently tried a range of DrainX values while testing the self-buff, and didn't mention the drain to target not scaling. Their screen shot also showed the drain to target inthe tool tip was MUCH higher than the bonus to self. Combined that with CrypticSpartan's comment-

"The targeted drain should be as effective before the patch as it was before due to the odd nature of how it was being resisted."

-I believe drain to target still scales with DrainX.

It's on my list of things to check personally once I'm done patching Tribble.

He also said in the quote up there "The drain inflicted on the target has been decreased". If I understand correctly, the bugged excessive drain and the drain resist countered each other. I wonder what was actually the effective enemy drain in that in that case.

I am mostly just checking in to see if the Leech is still useful for Drain Boats as I had previously flown one. With the changes coming in I was thinking about switching out my current Beam Boat and looking in to the soon-to-be viability of a Torpedo Drainer.

mustrumridcully0

nikeix wrote: »

You know the name of this pass is not "Class Balance" right? And that the Plasmonic leech is the single most used console in the entire game? Which falls quite neatly under the header "space balance".

Disappointment is the distance between bad expectations and reality. Your expectations the game will be and should be completely static are borderline nonsensical. But hey, if you think inertia should be single most dominant force in game design, you might want to try chess.

Chess? Terrible game since they turned the Queen into this munchkin perversion it is now.

lowy1

Shouldn't they have seen this coming when they attempted to simplify things with the skill revamp? I mean, when drain expertise combines flow caps and drain resistance, obviously the endstate is that drain boats are going to be undrainable more or less. I think as easier fix would have been to add a resistance tree that combines drain resistance and control resistance rather than go with a offense/defense combination route.

trennan

Plasmonic Leech.

Stolen from the KDF by the Feds.

Abused for 7 years.

They're finally fixing said ability to abuse it.

Should've happened the moment they took it away from the KDF and made it available to everyone.

Better late, than never.

tarran61

salazarraze wrote: »

Before now? They sell for around 3M. There was a time when they sold for 80M plus.

LOL, I remember buying the first one for 45mil. Now all my alts have one, 3 in the bank and Im to the point I dont even use it on my main.

vampeiyre

angrytarg wrote: »

The change makes sense but does hit drain builds harder than DPS tacs who don't really have to rely on PL power due to all the other stuff they can have. This change however, plus the reduction in firing cycle haste for turrets (3->5s) severly hits drain turret builds, though - and I would assume those were hardly a "problem" before.​​

Plasmonic leach plus as many Embassy "plasma exploder" drain consoles that a ship could fit is what every Tac-leaning person (ab)used, and is a yuuuuuuuuge contributor to FAW-related power creep/mechanics abuse. Tac captains will be hit the absolute hardest since they can't abuse it for power management and unintended DPS creep as replacement for skill and strategy.

For the science player, drain to target is still as effective, it just doesn't buff the user with subsystem power.

This is one of the best fixes of bad game design in this whole balance pass.

taylor1701d

Don't worry, high DPS'er are still going to wipe adv mobs in under 5 secs.
It's the sub 20k player that will feel the pinch.

Since these nerfs won't really have a major impact on my game play (since the game will remain SuperEasyMode compared to my gear set even after the changes), I'm kind of excited to free up some console slots on my ship and try new things.
Goodbye 2-3 Plasma Explosion consoles on every build. I won't miss you. You were too good to pass up. But now the limitations on my builds have been significantly loosened.
It's a really good thing for established players I think. It'll inject a lot of freshness in ship builds. New possibilities, new combinations. IDIC

But for lower end players... they will be even more helpless then before. Good luck to them when they PUG, they better hope they have a high DPS'er with them, or PUG's will fail miserably or take 30mins - 1hr.
This will inevitably lead to Delta Rising levels of complaints on failed PVE queues.
^^ This doesn't sound like much of an improvement on the fun factor imo.

I'm geared enough to weather a 75% reduction in DPS in all honesty. And I like the fact that I'm no longer shoehorned into using a handful of primo consoles. This way, I'll be able to try new consoles & builds, which does sound like great fun to me, but it comes at too great a cost IMHO.

Nerf the game 75%, I'll be fine. I'm okay with it.
But don't expect the lower end players who are hurt most to be having a grand ol' time.
But I certainly will be.