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I definitely wouldn't protest if I could get my hands on the Warship Intrepid depicted in the episode "Living Witness". <drools> The extra heavy phaser cannons/lances on that ship look fantastic.
I'd also even like to see a STF featuring Warlord Janeway for a boss fight.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
Well it's not like STO is solid canon. There is wiggle room anyways if they wanted to do it. Plus that argument is mute considering they have that alien ship "Dauntless". It never really existed either, unless you actually believe they managed to reverse engineer something that was fabricated.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
Well, while it's definitely true, it doesn't mean an alternate universe/timeline can't have a similar ship that manages to make its way to the Prime universe. Or the Mirror Universe's Temporal agents could go to sack the Kyrian Museum of Heritage, grab the schematics and give them to the 24th century Terran Empire who could send (more)Evil Janeway on it to bomb planets and enslave the Delta Quadrant.
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
Well it's not like STO is solid canon. There is wiggle room anyways if they wanted to do it. Plus that argument is mute considering they have that alien ship "Dauntless". It never really existed either, unless you actually believe they managed to reverse engineer something that was fabricated.
Well, the Dauntless doesn't perform any less or worse (and before some of you start typing a comment about the ship's meta performance, that's not what I meant) than another Federation ship. So it's really mostly the external look and shape that are different.
Plus it did appear during the Battle of Procyon V in ENT.
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
Ancient Griffon insult
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
In addition to what saurializard about other universes (it is well known that not all alternate Federations are peaceful, after all), the canon Galaxy-X was only seen in a timeline created (and then presumably erased) by Q. Didn't stop it from finding it's way into the game.
Alternate timeline heavily drawn on for STO's lore is not the same as holographic artist's representation that won't be created at all until sometime around the 29th century & will never be seen by anyone in the Federation.
Enh, we could just get a Mirror Intrepid that coincidently looks the same way because of similar design intent. OOH! fold out weapons ports! To make the ship more efficient at warp.
Indeed. There's no ship that can take that kind of hit and live. And had Odyssey not taken that hit, she'd of likely been able to withdraw.
Well the bug ship slammed itself into the deflector array and debris from the initial impact smashed the starboard nacelle to sh*t and back, so there was no possible way for the Oddy to recover.
When we are talking about impressive shield pens, I think my fave will always be the torp shot from Changs's BoP (Star Trek 6) went straight through the saucer. You even get a brief shot of the conference room being destroyed in the process.
yeah poor Enterprise A. She got the holy living hell beat out of her in that fight, but atleast she got some vengeance in the end. Because you have to admit, it was an impressive shot of that BoP exploding.
But i'll always remember Sulu urging Excelsior faster.
Sulu: "come on come on!"
Helmsman: "She'll fly apart!"
Sulu: "FLY HER APART THEN!"
Yeah loved that. It really made the scene more intense. It gave you this feeling like "win or die!" and the only way to win was something that would have been reckless normally.
Alternate timeline heavily drawn on for STO's lore is not the same as holographic artist's representation that won't be created at all until sometime around the 29th century & will never be seen by anyone in the Federation.
Enh, we could just get a Mirror Intrepid that coincidently looks the same way because of similar design intent. OOH! fold out weapons ports! To make the ship more efficient at warp.
Indeed. There's no ship that can take that kind of hit and live. And had Odyssey not taken that hit, she'd of likely been able to withdraw.
Well the bug ship slammed itself into the deflector array and debris from the initial impact smashed the starboard nacelle to sh*t and back, so there was no possible way for the Oddy to recover.
When we are talking about impressive shield pens, I think my fave will always be the torp shot from Changs's BoP (Star Trek 6) went straight through the saucer. You even get a brief shot of the conference room being destroyed in the process.
yeah poor Enterprise A. She got the holy living hell beat out of her in that fight, but atleast she got some vengeance in the end. Because you have to admit, it was an impressive shot of that BoP exploding.
But i'll always remember Sulu urging Excelsior faster.
Sulu: "come on come on!"
Helmsman: "She'll fly apart!"
Sulu: "FLY HER APART THEN!"
Yeah loved that. It really made the scene more intense. It gave you this feeling like "win or die!" and the only way to win was something that would have been reckless normally.
I agree. It's too bad the Shat refused to have the Excelsior win the day protecting the Big E-A, depriving us of potential Excelsior awesomeness. In the end, once the Excelsior arrives, Chang shoots one torpedo at it, then goes "Ah, TRIBBLE that, back to the Enterprise trashing" and Excelsior gets ignored by the film until the coup de grâce volley of torpedoes.
Alternate timeline heavily drawn on for STO's lore is not the same as holographic artist's representation that won't be created at all until sometime around the 29th century & will never be seen by anyone in the Federation.
Enh, we could just get a Mirror Intrepid that coincidently looks the same way because of similar design intent. OOH! fold out weapons ports! To make the ship more efficient at warp.
Indeed. There's no ship that can take that kind of hit and live. And had Odyssey not taken that hit, she'd of likely been able to withdraw.
Well the bug ship slammed itself into the deflector array and debris from the initial impact smashed the starboard nacelle to sh*t and back, so there was no possible way for the Oddy to recover.
When we are talking about impressive shield pens, I think my fave will always be the torp shot from Changs's BoP (Star Trek 6) went straight through the saucer. You even get a brief shot of the conference room being destroyed in the process.
yeah poor Enterprise A. She got the holy living hell beat out of her in that fight, but atleast she got some vengeance in the end. Because you have to admit, it was an impressive shot of that BoP exploding.
But i'll always remember Sulu urging Excelsior faster.
Sulu: "come on come on!"
Helmsman: "She'll fly apart!"
Sulu: "FLY HER APART THEN!"
Yeah loved that. It really made the scene more intense. It gave you this feeling like "win or die!" and the only way to win was something that would have been reckless normally.
Yeah it did. George Takei was really underrated as an actor IMHO. He really knew when to sell a scene.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Yeah...uh huh. And who did the Federation call when the fit hit the shan? Sure as hell wasn't the Federation Navy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The Intrepid-class was designed for long-term exploration missions.
/thread
I have to say, I'm more inclined to believe dialog from the show than an entry in a wiki (since the wiki can be written by anyone and therefore isn't necessarily canon, unlike the dialog).
Memory Alpha is a bit more than a wiki and is being used by Star Trek script writers as a reference guide, much like the Star Trek Encyclopedia has been in the past (which is also being revised and released in 2016).
This is a bit more believable than your average wiki, and it curated by serious people who take the information seriously. And is why the OP quoted Memory Alpha in the first place. The OP just ignored the very first sentences of the same page she quoted.
You are. Because at the end of the day you are trying to parse classes made up for a video game against onscreen source material that isn't the same metric. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Intrepid is a science class ship in STO because of how the ship classes were determined for a video game. It's an artificial construct that has some "flavor" of the shows for effect, but is not a hard definition of ship role and functionality within the shows themselves.
But you already knew this BEFORE you wrote your first post.
So this is yet another example of you succeeding in your agenda with most of your posts. I applaud the effort. But as you can already guess I myself take enjoyment out of the semantics of internet arguing. And thus once again point out that, you're quoting your own sources wrong!
Intrepid is defined as a long range exploration vessel on the very same Memory Alpha page YOU cited!
You need to try a bit harder. At least with the KDF threads you're rocking the very long Peregrine Falcon history post from this game's darker ages.
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Yeah...uh huh. And who did the Federation call when the fit hit the shan? Sure as hell wasn't the Federation Navy.
just because they fight every war the UFP has ever had doesn't make them military! it say so on the side of Starfleet HQ!!
please note these posts are dripping in sarcasm
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Yeah...uh huh. And who did the Federation call when the fit hit the shan? Sure as hell wasn't the Federation Navy.
just because they fight every war the UFP has ever had doesn't make them military! it say so on the side of Starfleet HQ!!
please note these posts are dripping in sarcasm
It's not becoming canon reality no matter how often you repost variations of "Starfleet is a military lolzor" when the material you are talking about says otherwise. Fan-fiction all you want, it's never becoming canon reality
EDIT: This discussion has been held countless times already. Please let's not do this again.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
In addition to what saurializard about other universes (it is well known that not all alternate Federations are peaceful, after all), the canon Galaxy-X was only seen in a timeline created (and then presumably erased) by Q. Didn't stop it from finding it's way into the game.
Even if it is a timeline created by Q and maybe destroyed by Q, Captain Picard did see the Galaxy-X and likely filed a report on his experiences. Some ship designer found Picard's report and decided to use it to create the Galaxy-X. Although since the ship is based off of a report instead of detailed scans, then there is likely a few differences between STO's Galaxy-X and TNG's Galaxy-X. After all, there might be a few major features of the Galaxy-X that Picard didn't see.
Explorers with a vessel built for combat performance, also known as a warship.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Yeah...uh huh. And who did the Federation call when the fit hit the shan? Sure as hell wasn't the Federation Navy.
just because they fight every war the UFP has ever had doesn't make them military! it say so on the side of Starfleet HQ!!
please note these posts are dripping in sarcasm
It's not becoming canon reality no matter how often you repost variations of "Starfleet is a military lolzor" when the material you are talking about says otherwise. Fan-fiction all you want, it's never becoming canon reality
EDIT: This discussion has been held countless times already. Please let's not do this again.
I know its canon and they keep going back and saying it over and over and over in all the various series. Yet they respond to any and all military threats and wars and police actions, in addition to more civilian duties like disaster relieft, exploration, scienctific studies, etc. It's just really hard to imagine the U.S. Coast Guard being responsible for National Defense, and that's basically the parallel Roddenberry himself drew as to what Starfleet is.
Can't, neither the ship nor warlord janeway ever existed, they were a figment of an alien historian's imagination, in the far future well beyond the 25th century.
In addition to what saurializard about other universes (it is well known that not all alternate Federations are peaceful, after all), the canon Galaxy-X was only seen in a timeline created (and then presumably erased) by Q. Didn't stop it from finding it's way into the game.
Even if it is a timeline created by Q and maybe destroyed by Q, Captain Picard did see the Galaxy-X and likely filed a report on his experiences. Some ship designer found Picard's report and decided to use it to create the Galaxy-X. Although since the ship is based off of a report instead of detailed scans, then there is likely a few differences between STO's Galaxy-X and TNG's Galaxy-X. After all, there might be a few major features of the Galaxy-X that Picard didn't see.
What part of the game lore mentions Picard being briefed on the ship? Because the Z-Store doesn't even attempt to justify the design. It's just... there.
I'd be curious how it even resembles the Q-created one, considering Picard never really got a good look at the outside and isn't exactly the sort who reads tech manuals for fun.
Just because a ship is armed doesn't mean it's a warship.
Even today in real life you get ships that are armed as a means of protection or in case of a "what if" scenario, look at the USCG or fisheries protection vessels.
And even if you're an explorer you'll probably have some means of defending yourself from anything hostile, it's just good practice to be safe. Explorers in S. America or Africa will have a rifle for defense against wild animals, but that doesn't mean they are going to war.
Exact same thing in Trek, except you're exploring in space and the defensive tech is much more powerful.
Also, remember that things like phasers can and have been used in the shows for things like mining etc., they are precision tools almost.
Torps also have had uses as probe casings or to destroy things like asteroids or comets.
Well I think the op is fishing here, as it was made a science ship, because that is how the ship ended up serving as. It might have been intended for a short range combat but it became something else. Also you never see a Intrepid in any combat capacity along the lines of full scale war in DS9. You see it being used in a diplomatic function.
As for what a ship is or isnt really comes down to game design. Something we learn from the shows is how a ship is used depends on the captain and the circumstances. Hell at several points the Defiant was used for research. Then again if you really open up ships like that in game, well balance would cease to exist. To be clear cease to exist even more so then now.
As for ship designs. First contact was a superb movie but it also had a small flaw. Up to that time frame starfleet was made out of Constitution class starships, Miranda/warship class, and Excelsior class starships. That design lasted for many years in starfleet. Then the next generation of ships, aka Galaxy,Nebula, Intrepid, and Defiant. Suddenly before these ships had been fully used we are shot forward into the Sovereign, and Akira class era. STO well cant make up its mind one way or the other. The star cruisers were originally supposed to be the sto era of fed ships, then it was changed, and again changed. I know I know money. I guess my point with this last point is things are no longer streamlined. You really cant say what ship is or is not anymore.
In the tos series the impression you got was all starfleet ships were constitution class starships, and all klingon ships were D7 class battle cruisers. A ship class used for exploration, patrol, combat duty, and war. Essentially two classes of all purpose ships able to handle any task. Over time this changed completely, up to first contact there still was some symmetry, but afterwards not so much.
My final point I would be careful, if you want to stick strictly to cannon naming any ship one specific type. At least from a fed perspective. On the Klingon side its real simple warships used to conquer.
Comments
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Well it's not like STO is solid canon. There is wiggle room anyways if they wanted to do it. Plus that argument is mute considering they have that alien ship "Dauntless". It never really existed either, unless you actually believe they managed to reverse engineer something that was fabricated.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Well, the Dauntless doesn't perform any less or worse (and before some of you start typing a comment about the ship's meta performance, that's not what I meant) than another Federation ship. So it's really mostly the external look and shape that are different.
Plus it did appear during the Battle of Procyon V in ENT.
By 1982 the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaty negotiations had produced a legal definition of what was then generally accepted as a late-twentieth century warship. The UNCLOS definition was : "A warship means a ship belonging to the armed forces of a State bearing the external marks distinguishing such ships of its nationality, under the command of an officer duly commissioned by the government of the State and whose name appears in the appropriate service list or its equivalent, and manned by a crew which is under regular armed forces discipline."
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah it did. George Takei was really underrated as an actor IMHO. He really knew when to sell a scene.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
And Starfleet isn't a military force at least according to its own propaganda
Yeah...uh huh. And who did the Federation call when the fit hit the shan? Sure as hell wasn't the Federation Navy.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That one is so stupid, he lost a Rock/Paper/Scissors game to a Pony.
Memory Alpha is a bit more than a wiki and is being used by Star Trek script writers as a reference guide, much like the Star Trek Encyclopedia has been in the past (which is also being revised and released in 2016).
This is a bit more believable than your average wiki, and it curated by serious people who take the information seriously. And is why the OP quoted Memory Alpha in the first place. The OP just ignored the very first sentences of the same page she quoted.
My character Tsin'xing
You are. Because at the end of the day you are trying to parse classes made up for a video game against onscreen source material that isn't the same metric. You are comparing apples to oranges. The Intrepid is a science class ship in STO because of how the ship classes were determined for a video game. It's an artificial construct that has some "flavor" of the shows for effect, but is not a hard definition of ship role and functionality within the shows themselves.
But you already knew this BEFORE you wrote your first post.
So this is yet another example of you succeeding in your agenda with most of your posts. I applaud the effort. But as you can already guess I myself take enjoyment out of the semantics of internet arguing. And thus once again point out that, you're quoting your own sources wrong!
Intrepid is defined as a long range exploration vessel on the very same Memory Alpha page YOU cited!
You need to try a bit harder. At least with the KDF threads you're rocking the very long Peregrine Falcon history post from this game's darker ages.
just because they fight every war the UFP has ever had doesn't make them military! it say so on the side of Starfleet HQ!!
please note these posts are dripping in sarcasm
It's not becoming canon reality no matter how often you repost variations of "Starfleet is a military lolzor" when the material you are talking about says otherwise. Fan-fiction all you want, it's never becoming canon reality
EDIT: This discussion has been held countless times already. Please let's not do this again.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Even if it is a timeline created by Q and maybe destroyed by Q, Captain Picard did see the Galaxy-X and likely filed a report on his experiences. Some ship designer found Picard's report and decided to use it to create the Galaxy-X. Although since the ship is based off of a report instead of detailed scans, then there is likely a few differences between STO's Galaxy-X and TNG's Galaxy-X. After all, there might be a few major features of the Galaxy-X that Picard didn't see.
I know its canon and they keep going back and saying it over and over and over in all the various series. Yet they respond to any and all military threats and wars and police actions, in addition to more civilian duties like disaster relieft, exploration, scienctific studies, etc. It's just really hard to imagine the U.S. Coast Guard being responsible for National Defense, and that's basically the parallel Roddenberry himself drew as to what Starfleet is.
I'd be curious how it even resembles the Q-created one, considering Picard never really got a good look at the outside and isn't exactly the sort who reads tech manuals for fun.
It's kind of hard to do that sciency stuff if you get yourself blown to Gre'Thor first!
Perhaps I missed some other salient point?
Qapla'!
Even today in real life you get ships that are armed as a means of protection or in case of a "what if" scenario, look at the USCG or fisheries protection vessels.
And even if you're an explorer you'll probably have some means of defending yourself from anything hostile, it's just good practice to be safe. Explorers in S. America or Africa will have a rifle for defense against wild animals, but that doesn't mean they are going to war.
Exact same thing in Trek, except you're exploring in space and the defensive tech is much more powerful.
Also, remember that things like phasers can and have been used in the shows for things like mining etc., they are precision tools almost.
Torps also have had uses as probe casings or to destroy things like asteroids or comets.
As for what a ship is or isnt really comes down to game design. Something we learn from the shows is how a ship is used depends on the captain and the circumstances. Hell at several points the Defiant was used for research. Then again if you really open up ships like that in game, well balance would cease to exist. To be clear cease to exist even more so then now.
As for ship designs. First contact was a superb movie but it also had a small flaw. Up to that time frame starfleet was made out of Constitution class starships, Miranda/warship class, and Excelsior class starships. That design lasted for many years in starfleet. Then the next generation of ships, aka Galaxy,Nebula, Intrepid, and Defiant. Suddenly before these ships had been fully used we are shot forward into the Sovereign, and Akira class era. STO well cant make up its mind one way or the other. The star cruisers were originally supposed to be the sto era of fed ships, then it was changed, and again changed. I know I know money. I guess my point with this last point is things are no longer streamlined. You really cant say what ship is or is not anymore.
In the tos series the impression you got was all starfleet ships were constitution class starships, and all klingon ships were D7 class battle cruisers. A ship class used for exploration, patrol, combat duty, and war. Essentially two classes of all purpose ships able to handle any task. Over time this changed completely, up to first contact there still was some symmetry, but afterwards not so much.
My final point I would be careful, if you want to stick strictly to cannon naming any ship one specific type. At least from a fed perspective. On the Klingon side its real simple warships used to conquer.