A Science Vessel with 6 weapon slots and a Lt TAC station at best can hang with the best. The caveat is that a good Science Build is a completely different build style and priority on mostly different skills, traits, consoles, equipment than the average PewPew Build.
That being said, an Exotic damage build is CHEAPER to put together than a PewPew FAW build. You don't need expensive MK XIV weapons to pull it off, its more about the skills you use and finding as many items that boost Particle Gens/Exotic Damage/All damage as possible and using them, a lot of which people already have.
Well I guess I'm irrelevant and maybe should stop posting now. Thank you.
Nah.
None of my Characters are wedded to flying ships of their class, though to be honest, any of my Characters feel a bit naked without at least a Lt. Commander Science (or Universal that can become Science).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
None of my Characters are wedded to flying ships of their class, though to be honest, any of my Characters feel a bit naked without at least a Lt. Commander Science (or Universal that can become Science).
Back when each profession had skill trees that buffed their specific skill types, then it made more sense to have a Sci capt in a Sciship. But now, yeah, no real reason to match captain and ship types
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Well I guess I'm irrelevant and maybe should stop posting now. Thank you.
Drama queen much? 'Not the best' and 'irrelevant' are hardly the same thing in a game this trivially easy.
Besides, they added a third Tac/Eng/Sci axis with the skill revamp, so now you can run an Engineering Captain with the Tactical capstone skill frenzy in a science vessel. Good times.
Actually this round of genetic re-sequencers were really nice for emphasizing the difference between captain classes... and giving Engineers straight up damage buffs .
Well I guess I'm irrelevant and maybe should stop posting now. Thank you.
Drama queen much? 'Not the best' and 'irrelevant' are hardly the same thing in a game this trivially easy.
Besides, they added a third Tac/Eng/Sci axis with the skill revamp, so now you can run an Engineering Captain with the Tactical capstone skill frenzy in a science vessel. Good times.
Actually this round of genetic re-sequencers were really nice for emphasizing the difference between captain classes... and giving Engineers straight up damage buffs .
hey! I run Sci Captains with Tac ships all the time. No Captain is irrelevent.
Qapla!
I don't know how you can interpret drama queen about that. You conviently left out the 'Nah' which negates the entire first line. Sarcasm.
Krep'lach!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This is irrelevant to flying science ships, the best actual Science ship captains are actually Tactical captains.
Yeah which is another issue to some players. To me the career's should be focused in their base-line abilities to only affect their specific areas, weapon-based combat an attack patterns for tactical, energy-levels an hull-based healing/regeneration/resistance for Engineering, and for science non-weapon based damage (though right now this is not the case) as well as draining/shield healing/resistance. While spending points into the three career sub-trees would expand on what these base-line abilities can affect, or grant as bonuses while they are being used based on which of the sub-career trees you spent point into.
This is irrelevant to flying science ships, the best actual Science ship captains are actually Tactical captains.
Yeah which is another issue to some players. To me the career's should be focused in their base-line abilities to only affect their specific areas, weapon-based combat an attack patterns for tactical, energy-levels an hull-based healing/regeneration/resistance for Engineering, and for science non-weapon based damage (though right now this is not the case) as well as draining/shield healing/resistance. While spending points into the three career sub-trees would expand on what these base-line abilities can affect, or grant as bonuses while they are being used based on which of the sub-career trees you spent point into.
Maybe for STO 2, but IMO Captains should be Captains. Sci/Tac/Eng should be BO based only, Captains shouldn't be a specific class.
This is irrelevant to flying science ships, the best actual Science ship captains are actually Tactical captains.
Yeah which is another issue to some players. To me the career's should be focused in their base-line abilities to only affect their specific areas, weapon-based combat an attack patterns for tactical, energy-levels an hull-based healing/regeneration/resistance for Engineering, and for science non-weapon based damage (though right now this is not the case) as well as draining/shield healing/resistance. While spending points into the three career sub-trees would expand on what these base-line abilities can affect, or grant as bonuses while they are being used based on which of the sub-career trees you spent point into.
Maybe for STO 2, but IMO Captains should be Captains. Sci/Tac/Eng should be BO based only, Captains shouldn't be a specific class.
Why not have it be a class that has a different set of abilities based on the area of starfleet you progressed thru on your way up to the captain rank? I mean in the end tactical/engineering/science are merely departments in starfleet that focus on certain fields, while a captain is merely a rank in the command structure of starfleet. So it makes sense that the training of the department a captain rose thru would influence how they function, while attaining the captain rank would merely open them up to additional higher ranks of training in their field. Which in a similar way the sub-tree system would merely be how you apply your sub-career training to the existing skills you have from your own main-career training.
This is irrelevant to flying science ships, the best actual Science ship captains are actually Tactical captains.
Yeah which is another issue to some players. To me the career's should be focused in their base-line abilities to only affect their specific areas, weapon-based combat an attack patterns for tactical, energy-levels an hull-based healing/regeneration/resistance for Engineering, and for science non-weapon based damage (though right now this is not the case) as well as draining/shield healing/resistance. While spending points into the three career sub-trees would expand on what these base-line abilities can affect, or grant as bonuses while they are being used based on which of the sub-career trees you spent point into.
Maybe for STO 2, but IMO Captains should be Captains. Sci/Tac/Eng should be BO based only, Captains shouldn't be a specific class.
Would much rather see them do either a rework of how sub-system targeting works, or change how sub-system targeting is affected by being in a science ship. One thing that would be nice is to make sub-system targeting be usable with both cannons an beams, hell even torpedoes might be interesting, but maybe have it that using either of these has a slightly different additional effect as well.
It would be more interesting to me if using a sub-system targeting tactical ability on a science ship, was given a bonus effect, or working in tandem with the sensor scan.
the only possible way SST could ever be made useful is if it were turned into a weapon enhancement like CRF or FAW (aka, NOT one-shot) that has a 5-10% chance per energy weapon volley and 33% per projectile launched to drain X amount of subsystem power (based off DrainX score) for X seconds (based off CtrlX score) from the matching subsystem
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the only possible way SST could ever be made useful is if it were turned into a weapon enhancement like CRF or FAW (aka, NOT one-shot) that has a 5-10% chance per energy weapon volley and 33% per projectile launched to drain X amount of subsystem power (based off DrainX score) for X seconds (based off CtrlX score) from the matching subsystem
Agreed. Reconcept Beam Target Subsystems. (And maybe strike out the "Beam") A 10 second buff that adds a chance for disabling weapon system and some energy drain would be neat.
Alternatively, introduce a few traits that do something like that. Maybe the next C-Store ship could come with a "Improved Subsystem Targeting Trait".
Improved Subsystem Targeting - Starship Trait
When activating Beam: Target Subsystem [Power Subsystem], the target gains 5 stacks of "[Power Subsystem] Subsystem Targeted" that last 15 seconds. Every hit against the target has a chance to drain additional 5 points from the targeted power subystem. The chance is 5 % for energy weapon attacks and 20 % for kinetic weapon attacks. The target cannot gain any new stacks of subsystem targeting for the targeted subsystem while it still has stacks.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It would also be nice if we could get a trait that by using the sub-system targeting could negate the target's ability to have their system-power regen, and even their ability to bring back online the target's subsystem back online for a duration of time. I think this could be nice to have done for tetryon/shield striping abilities too, as than the huge regen rates of npcs would have a slight bit of a counter.
I don't think a starship trait would be any better.
IMO, I think it would be better to change how subsystem targeting by making it affected by Sensor Analysis. Example, a full stack of SA would automatically grant higher proc chances and lower CDs for the skill (CD could be reduced per SA stack). That way, both innate abilities of science ships would better compliment each other.
I'd prefer to see SST changed to be a toggle ability, so you set it to whichever targeting type you want and it adds an extra proc to all your weapons.
So set to target shields would give all weapons a 2.5% change to do what it already does, drain X power from the system or possible knock it offline. Perhaps because it would be "always on" add a lockout so that a successful offline means it can't proc again for a set period of time.
I'd prefer to see SST changed to be a toggle ability, so you set it to whichever targeting type you want and it adds an extra proc to all your weapons.
So set to target shields would give all weapons a 2.5% change to do what it already does, drain X power from the system or possible knock it offline. Perhaps because it would be "always on" add a lockout so that a successful offline means it can't proc again for a set period of time.
Nice idea. I’d like that and considering what we have otherwise around I would claim your suggestion to be a fair deal for sci ships.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Because a truely good exotic damage science build doesnt need ANY weapons
To be honest I’m a bit lost at the discussion. I mean peeps go for the sci ships don’t “need” more than 6 weapons direction. We also had a lot “if you set up a sci ship *properly* you don’t bother with any weapons at all” attitude in the past.
But quiet frankly, is that the case? What do sci ships get? A secondary deflector with some mild stat boosts and sensor analysis as single target ability?
In my opinion that does not equalize the loss of 2 gun ports especially considering that most other ships in game can use each an all sci abilities around as well (just not a single one at commander-level).
Take all the sci ships you like but for general PvE I can’t imagine a single one that can do things of more influence there that a Nandi or a Tier 6 sci Scimitar could not do better.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Because a truely good exotic damage science build doesnt need ANY weapons
To be honest I’m a bit lost at the discussion. I mean peeps go for the sci ships don’t “need” more than 6 weapons direction. We also had a lot “if you set up a sci ship *properly* you don’t bother with any weapons at all” attitude in the past.
But quiet frankly, is that the case? What do sci ships get? A secondary deflector with some mild stat boosts and sensor analysis as single target ability?
In my opinion that does not equalize the loss of 2 gun ports especially considering that most other ships in game can use each an all sci abilities around as well (just not a single one at commander-level).
Take all the sci ships you like but for general PvE I can’t imagine a single one that can do things of more influence there that a Nandi or a Tier 6 sci Scimitar could not do better.
Yeah you can do a shed load of damage without firing any weapons, BUT......those sci abilities have long cooldowns (even with all the reductions possible) and so once your initial barrage of death is done you are a bit stuck.
Having even just 6 weapons supplements that long cooldown period so i don't think any sci pilot would really go a whole battle without firing any beam/cannon/torp, the statement is a bit deceptive.
A rapid sub-1 min ISA run you might get away with it, but once you get to the longer missions like Days of Doom or Procyon 5 you'll need those weapons.
I have my weapons synergise with my sci abilities, so i get the most from them. They are not just there to shoot some pew-pew blindly at targets, they need to work with my abilities. So they are PEP torp spreads to go with my EPG skill or slow targets down and stop them escaping my GW, or shots with polaron beams to work with my tyken's rift.
Vesta with 8 guns? YES PLEASE. Ontop of having nasty science weapons, I have those LOVELY AUX DHCs. Having 4 of those up front with GW3?
Let the pain begin.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I'd prefer to see SST changed to be a toggle ability, so you set it to whichever targeting type you want and it adds an extra proc to all your weapons.
So set to target shields would give all weapons a 2.5% change to do what it already does, drain X power from the system or possible knock it offline. Perhaps because it would be "always on" add a lockout so that a successful offline means it can't proc again for a set period of time.
But quiet frankly, is that the case? What do sci ships get? A secondary deflector with some mild stat boosts and sensor analysis as single target ability?
That secondary deflector in the right hands and build would do about 20-25k DPS by itself. Even on a non-dedicated sci build (leaning towards a FAW ship) you can see 10-15k from it. It's not that bad. Especially now with the buffs sci has gotten the past few updates.
I know at least one guy flying an Eternal FAW boat doing 250k+ DPS or so when the ship first came out. It's not top DPS, but it is up there with ships with more weapons than it had.
Yeah you can do a shed load of damage without firing any weapons, BUT......those sci abilities have long cooldowns (even with all the reductions possible) and so once your initial barrage of death is done you are a bit stuck.
While I still fire my weapons, I have been primarily flying a build with 0 tactical abilities for several months now. You can manage sci abilities so that you can have several modes of attack available to you throughout the run. Where at a point now where all cooldowns can be significantly reduced, and you don't need multiple stacking science powers to kill a target.
For example:
Attack 1: GW+SSV (with DRB or not depending on mob strength and numbers) + PEPT normal shot
Attack 2: TBR+CPB (Entropic Redistribution to finish off mobs that survive)
Attack 3: (Supplementary) Universal consoles like Delphic Tear, Causal Anchor with Constriction Anchor.
Attack 5: (Filler) Structural Integrity Collapse + PEPT normal shots
Each of the above examples are enough to kill mobs in Advanced and you can combine 2 or 3 of those attack groupings for Elite. That would leave you with other options. Rotating them will give you enough uptime for continuous damage dealing.
It really is a viable build option now, even outside of fast maps like CCA and ISA.
Comments
Yup, with EM2Aux, GW3, Torp Spread and Support Mode on my Temporal SciShip, I can get 1st or 2nd in CCA with little other pew pew.
The unfortunate truth!
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Nah.
None of my Characters are wedded to flying ships of their class, though to be honest, any of my Characters feel a bit naked without at least a Lt. Commander Science (or Universal that can become Science).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Back when each profession had skill trees that buffed their specific skill types, then it made more sense to have a Sci capt in a Sciship. But now, yeah, no real reason to match captain and ship types
They were just here a minute ago. Damn!
Drama queen much? 'Not the best' and 'irrelevant' are hardly the same thing in a game this trivially easy.
Besides, they added a third Tac/Eng/Sci axis with the skill revamp, so now you can run an Engineering Captain with the Tactical capstone skill frenzy in a science vessel. Good times.
Actually this round of genetic re-sequencers were really nice for emphasizing the difference between captain classes... and giving Engineers straight up damage buffs
hey! I run Sci Captains with Tac ships all the time. No Captain is irrelevent.
Qapla!
Sarcasm.
Krep'lach!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yeah which is another issue to some players. To me the career's should be focused in their base-line abilities to only affect their specific areas, weapon-based combat an attack patterns for tactical, energy-levels an hull-based healing/regeneration/resistance for Engineering, and for science non-weapon based damage (though right now this is not the case) as well as draining/shield healing/resistance. While spending points into the three career sub-trees would expand on what these base-line abilities can affect, or grant as bonuses while they are being used based on which of the sub-career trees you spent point into.
Why not have it be a class that has a different set of abilities based on the area of starfleet you progressed thru on your way up to the captain rank? I mean in the end tactical/engineering/science are merely departments in starfleet that focus on certain fields, while a captain is merely a rank in the command structure of starfleet. So it makes sense that the training of the department a captain rose thru would influence how they function, while attaining the captain rank would merely open them up to additional higher ranks of training in their field. Which in a similar way the sub-tree system would merely be how you apply your sub-career training to the existing skills you have from your own main-career training.
So it would be okay to remove them on the next patch then?
Hear that Devs that should make further science ships easier to program into the game.
It would be more interesting to me if using a sub-system targeting tactical ability on a science ship, was given a bonus effect, or working in tandem with the sensor scan.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Alternatively, introduce a few traits that do something like that. Maybe the next C-Store ship could come with a "Improved Subsystem Targeting Trait".
Improved Subsystem Targeting - Starship Trait
When activating Beam: Target Subsystem [Power Subsystem], the target gains 5 stacks of "[Power Subsystem] Subsystem Targeted" that last 15 seconds. Every hit against the target has a chance to drain additional 5 points from the targeted power subystem. The chance is 5 % for energy weapon attacks and 20 % for kinetic weapon attacks. The target cannot gain any new stacks of subsystem targeting for the targeted subsystem while it still has stacks.
IMO, I think it would be better to change how subsystem targeting by making it affected by Sensor Analysis. Example, a full stack of SA would automatically grant higher proc chances and lower CDs for the skill (CD could be reduced per SA stack). That way, both innate abilities of science ships would better compliment each other.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
So set to target shields would give all weapons a 2.5% change to do what it already does, drain X power from the system or possible knock it offline. Perhaps because it would be "always on" add a lockout so that a successful offline means it can't proc again for a set period of time.
Nice idea. I’d like that and considering what we have otherwise around I would claim your suggestion to be a fair deal for sci ships.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
To be honest I’m a bit lost at the discussion. I mean peeps go for the sci ships don’t “need” more than 6 weapons direction. We also had a lot “if you set up a sci ship *properly* you don’t bother with any weapons at all” attitude in the past.
But quiet frankly, is that the case? What do sci ships get? A secondary deflector with some mild stat boosts and sensor analysis as single target ability?
In my opinion that does not equalize the loss of 2 gun ports especially considering that most other ships in game can use each an all sci abilities around as well (just not a single one at commander-level).
Take all the sci ships you like but for general PvE I can’t imagine a single one that can do things of more influence there that a Nandi or a Tier 6 sci Scimitar could not do better.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah you can do a shed load of damage without firing any weapons, BUT......those sci abilities have long cooldowns (even with all the reductions possible) and so once your initial barrage of death is done you are a bit stuck.
Having even just 6 weapons supplements that long cooldown period so i don't think any sci pilot would really go a whole battle without firing any beam/cannon/torp, the statement is a bit deceptive.
A rapid sub-1 min ISA run you might get away with it, but once you get to the longer missions like Days of Doom or Procyon 5 you'll need those weapons.
I have my weapons synergise with my sci abilities, so i get the most from them. They are not just there to shoot some pew-pew blindly at targets, they need to work with my abilities. So they are PEP torp spreads to go with my EPG skill or slow targets down and stop them escaping my GW, or shots with polaron beams to work with my tyken's rift.
Let the pain begin.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
This, I like.
That secondary deflector in the right hands and build would do about 20-25k DPS by itself. Even on a non-dedicated sci build (leaning towards a FAW ship) you can see 10-15k from it. It's not that bad. Especially now with the buffs sci has gotten the past few updates.
I know at least one guy flying an Eternal FAW boat doing 250k+ DPS or so when the ship first came out. It's not top DPS, but it is up there with ships with more weapons than it had.
While I still fire my weapons, I have been primarily flying a build with 0 tactical abilities for several months now. You can manage sci abilities so that you can have several modes of attack available to you throughout the run. Where at a point now where all cooldowns can be significantly reduced, and you don't need multiple stacking science powers to kill a target.
For example:
Each of the above examples are enough to kill mobs in Advanced and you can combine 2 or 3 of those attack groupings for Elite. That would leave you with other options. Rotating them will give you enough uptime for continuous damage dealing.
It really is a viable build option now, even outside of fast maps like CCA and ISA.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!