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Why are Science ships limiterd to 6 weapons?
khanlan
Member Posts: 4 Arc User
Just like the title asks...
By science ship I mean a ship with a science doff in the commanders science slot. So yeah the "Universals" don't really count.
I looked for an answer and couldn't find one. Long ago I was told is was because of pvp is that really still a valid reason?
Gravity Well III, is a reason to only 3 from weapons?
Tac and eng can both go to 5 front weapons and for them 4/4 is the norm.
So why limit science?
By science ship I mean a ship with a science doff in the commanders science slot. So yeah the "Universals" don't really count.
I looked for an answer and couldn't find one. Long ago I was told is was because of pvp is that really still a valid reason?
Gravity Well III, is a reason to only 3 from weapons?
Tac and eng can both go to 5 front weapons and for them 4/4 is the norm.
So why limit science?
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- Scan Analysis to debuff enemies.
- Secondary Deflector which can augment defensive and offensive capabilities.
- Subsystem Targeting to temporarily disable subsystems.
- Using science abilities does not drain aux power.
- Very high shield modifiers to increase max shields.
Imagine a cruiser that has 8 weapon slots with all the above, a Cmdr Science Boff Station and very good turn rates. You would have an overpowered starship even when taking into consideration the loss of cruiser commands. They would completely dominate PvP if there was ever such a thing in STO.
I think you can become an adequately powerful space wizard pretty cheaply these days. Just focus on some of the more recent episode reward consoles and save your EC for key exchange items like Plasmonic Leech console or Psychological warfare trait (which have become less expensive since the infinity box).
We also don't go long without an event ship that gives a little something to sci, and more broadly there are a lot of ships now with universal LtCmdr slot which you can throw Gravity Well into (ex. Tac Scimitar
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The main reason was that I felt had gotten into what (for my only moderate skill level) was the happiest balance point. My Fed Main is a tactical officer, and so what I had in practice was a very aggressive support ship for PVE. I was a hit and runner with the gravity wells, rifts, and subsystem targeting. I had a build that made evasive maneuvers fairly accessible, so I got out of the line of fire as cruisers came, then angled back in to realign my attack.
Beam arrays and mines were often preferable due to the hit and run aspect, and a need for all angles, but I switched out quite a bit to see what I could improve. I tried cannons but they tended to make me an easier target, and since subsystems were a main focus, I was less interested in raw damage, than I was in just making sure there was 'some' damage. if you take down the targets shields it isn't so important what you hit them with, as long as you actually can hit them
My build was somewhat less effective in PVP though, and my Fleet PVP heavy hitters routinely smashed me up in wargames. If we did teams it was better, but PVP is a different dish than PVE for sure.
For my Main Klingon, I lavished my adoration on the K'tinga, and then the Fleet K'tinga T5U. They were the closest thing I could find to get the same feeling of balance and team usefulness. I favor disruptor cannons and I switch out torpedoes choosing types that have special properties beyond simple damage. I will say that the Fleet K'tinga could pretend to be a science ship, and so maybe that would work for you in the KDF. To be honest I find the lack of science in the KDF aggravating. I have seen other threads on that, so I'll leave it alone here.
I guess what I am saying is that I don't find the slot limits for weapons so bad it takes away from my fun, and there are ships out there where if you take the idea of SCI and force it into a non-sci the ship with a hammer, you can get the basics to work. Crazy DPS is not required to be a good team mate. Crazy DPS is the single most significant thing in PVP though, if you want my opinion, but that is another thread.
Anyway, I need to go.
Qapla!
Maybe just one slot for a torpedo launcher.
Not adding a plasma emission or gravimetric torpedo spread to the exotic death ball would be sad.
I tried out my exotic damage once in a Fleet wargame, no weapons firing for the first few exchanges. It was ... interesting. I think it is possible to do a good exotic damage build, but I think some sort of weapon is a good idea, and torps do have a good variety of 'exotic' effects.
Qapla!
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Qapla!
Cruisers had the lowest turn rates, but 8 weapon slots. Escorts had the best turn rate, 7 weapon slots, but could use Dual Heavy Cannons. Science Vessels had moderate turn rate, 6 weapon slots, and innate subsystem targeting. Cryptic back then thought this was balanced. And in the beginning, science vessel abilites were quite potent. Or, more accurately, broken - you could basically stunlock your victims.
What we also had back then was a lot of energy management - beam broadsides would drain you real power, so that the DPS difference between 6, 7 or 8 beams was marginal.
Today, the power creep has changed things a lot. Rules these ships were originally designed for don't really apply like that anymore - but thanks to the magic of power creep, new rules came up.This included - particularly lately - science getting a lot of very potent offensive options. Torpedoes becoming very viable if you use specialty torpedoes like from Reps. And so, we're once again in a position where 6 vs 7 or 8 weapon slots doesn't matter.
QAPLA!
Seriously, I've got 30k in a sci-ship without a single weapon equipped. That was a ship I just threw together without the right traits.
Others have got 100k DPS.
6 Weapon slots is pretty much overkill for them.
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It is true that it is not as useful now with the quicker kill times, but just like how having a hanger on a ship has a cost to it even with how worthless some feel hanger-pet are. Most of the added bonuses ships have come at a cost regardless of how good or bad they are, with the cost being paid in weapon slots, stats, and what they might be able to slot on their ship.
I think it would be interesting if scan had some interaction with other scan-based science abilities, which might increase the speed at which you gain scan stacks or just on use might grant an amount of scan stacks. Though could also be secondary effects too that might work with sensor scan, things like spreading the gained bonus to other targets in range, or consuming the scan stacks for a short term yet high effect bonus.
It would also be interesting if sensor scan had some interaction with the sub-system targeting. Like that if you used sub-system targeting on a target that had sensor scan stacking up it would cause them to get a different debuiff applied to them based on the scan stacks an sub-system targeting that was used on it.
Just try to remember that in the beginning when the ships were created, they didn't have secondary deflectors or the analysis. That came later, to compensate for how weak the ships ended up being due to the 6 max weapons. They always had sub system targeting though! Yay!
But as pointed out, in the beginning, the 8 weapon vs. 6 weapon disparity was not that big a gap, and science powers were initially very much a reason to choose the ship. Power creep came to science in a different way though because when the game shifted toward beam boats, the gap in weapons became more pronounced.
Things are definitely a lot more competitive these days post AoY.
Don't underestimate Sensor Scan. Even with the quicker kill times, it is still a very potent ship ability. Ever wonder why the Yorktown is one of the highest DPS Fed ships today despite only having 2 Tactical consoles?
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The Tal Shiar Adapted Battle Cruiser has all those things if you take it to T5-U, well it has a Commander Universal not science but that's more of a plus really. Oh and it has cloaking and cruiser commands! It's also been around for years and yet you never hear much about it.
Ain't that the nerfing truth.
Qapla!
I have also been equipping TBR2 with Graga Mal or the new freebie for Temporal Recruits that change that to a Pull. Can use that to corale ships that missed the GW. I just loved getting between the two Tholian Capital Ships in the Tholian Red Alert and whipping them around while blasting them with whatever. A sight to behold.
My Temporal Recruit has the Sphere Builder Edoulg Science Ship boxed and can't wait to try her out with Temporal and Intelligence seating. That Science Ship has a 4/2 configuration instead of the standard 3/3.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'