They don't have issues buying stuff from the Lobi or large items like KU ships, but they can't take a outfit. The Emotion is strong on this.
Yes. The complainers must want these outfits very badly. After all, nobody needs a 10-page (and counting) thread filled with expletives and personal insults just to say "I don't think it's worth the price, so I'm not going to buy it."
Exactly as planned. Sinks like this are based on envy, after all.
I highly doubt anyone who puts any kind of time into any MMO has only one character.
I only have one on Neverwinter and Defiance. Used to run only one on WoW because I was focusing on her alone...
I have been proven wrong
I really am quite surprised by that as well, particularly with WoW (I had at least 3 characters on my first day trying to figure out what class to main, lol).
I'll adjust my statement and say that the vast majority of MMO players have more than one character.
I have 11 Toons, but I don't not use any of them as "farmers".
That is not the way I play this game, I play to have fun, not make it a second job.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't know anyone in this game who only has 1 character, thus math based on 1 character is a fail.
What were you saying earlier about the minority speaking as if they speak for everybody? I know several people who only have one character, most of whom have been playing since launch but have never had any interest in having any more than one character. Whilst I admit it's rare and I personally don't understand why you wouldn't want at least a few, it does happen and it shouldn't be assumed that everybody has an army of farming toons.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
I highly doubt anyone who puts any kind of time into any MMO has only one character.
I only have one on Neverwinter and Defiance. Used to run only one on WoW because I was focusing on her alone...
I have been proven wrong
I really am quite surprised by that as well, particularly with WoW (I had at least 3 characters on my first day trying to figure out what class to main, lol).
I'll adjust my statement and say that the vast majority of MMO players have more than one character.
lol no problem. Don't really play WoW much though due to lack of funds. At least the recent promo with the movie bumped me up to Warlords of Draenor, but I couldn't run my main because it was a straight up "seperate instance" of the game. Didn't apply that free month to my existing copy that my Draenei is on.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
I have 3 faction mains that I've put more work into, but all my characters are relatively well set up. Hell... it was with my Sci Caitian alt that I finally beat No Win on. And surprising fact... I was never able to get 1st place in Crystaline Entity on my Fed Main for the longest time, yet I was able to get it several times on alts.
Yeah multiple characters are not necessarily for farming. I have 7 characters (3 that I might consider mains), and I don't do anything play-wise to get dil, in fact I deleted a bunch of dil mining vouchers I got from opening lockboxes a couple weeks ago cause I saw them as garbage and they were account bound. Zen is my ticket to any dil I might need.
Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Yeah multiple characters are not necessarily for farming. I have 7 characters (3 that I might consider mains), and I don't do anything play-wise to get dil, in fact I deleted a bunch of dil mining vouchers I got from opening lockboxes a couple weeks ago cause I saw them as garbage and they were account bound. Zen is my ticket to any dil I might need.
Well... now you can trade them for rep vouchers so it doesn't eat into your stockpile of DL... I can already get a full ground set on my TOS thanks to her vouchers.
Good point, but I did also say that no group of players here speaks for the majority, by default that statement includes myself as well. Now the whole assumption that multiple characters are just for farming I have a problem with, I do pool my resources from my various characters, but I don't have a main, I play all of my characters.
I perhaps should have worded that differently since I have multiple characters myself and don't use them for farming. Hence my signature comment about not having a 'main'. But quite a few people in this thread keep making comments about farming using multiple characters, which not all of us do even if we have multiple characters, that's where my comment came from.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Apparently these prices arent that high cause i have already seen a lot of people running around esd wearing em.
Probably people who stockpiled or sold Zen. I'm sure my Fleet Leader might be able to get them as well. As for me... not likely to happen because I'm already working on a long term project... that was stalled by the high DL Exchange prices.
[quote="daveyny;13012482"]I have 11 Toons, but I don't not use any of them as "farmers". That is not the way I play this game, I play to have fun, not make it a second job. <shrug>[/quote] _________
Completely agree... I've done the farm/second job over on Nevereinter... not again. Once a game starts feeling like that agqin, it's time for another break...
The world is full of expensive things people buy, because they can.
The world is also full jealous people who insist that buying those expensive things is stupid or insane, because they can't.
I can. I can probably even get all of them with my Zen reserve.
The thing is, I won't, because it is insane.
On a related note: Zen prices have jumped from 400 to 415, which is the exact opposite of what some people here claim to be Cryptic's intention. If this was really meant to be a dilithium sink intended to lower the cost of Zen, it has well and truly failed at that task.
Or, the double whammy of "I need piles of dil, so I want piles of dil for each zen I pony up" combined with "omg, I want that zenny nao so I can get keys / inventory slots / whatnot" means the market has twice the impetuous to spike to 500 than normal...
Maybe by next month will the sink-y effects of this maneuver be felt. Until then, feel the wrath of the 500 club...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It's not like anybody 'needs' any of these things, just like nobody 'needs' to drive a car around that is worth more than 10 houses. But if they have the money and choose to spend it, then that is up to them.
If it helps even out dith prices, then all the better.
Holy [Insert Strongest Swear You Can Think Of Here]! And Char ONLY?!
Even at max Dil - Zen (500 - 1), the MACO outfit would cost 4000 Zen, or at least 7.2x more than a normal outfit (550 Zen). AND ONE CHAR ONLY! I hate Char Only outfits, it costs a fortune to get the assorted Lobi outfits, but they are a special currency item and also from a non-starfleet, KDF, RomRep source so I can understand them being char only. But these Dil Store outfits are Standard Fed Patterns, and yet cost over 7 times more (or "(7+ * (Number Of Fed Alts)) * 550 Zen" if you want them on all your fed alts). Oh, and for you that don't use Zen to get large amounts of dil, the MACO outfit will take 250 Days of the daily 8k limit to get.
I know you have the misguided vision that Dil is plentiful and EC isn't (seriously, EC is easy to get a few 100k of, Dil is not especially with the refine limit), but this goes beyond that into the realms of offensively pricey. Why not just make them Account wide for let's say 550 Zen each.
But if you really think making them Char Only is a good idea (it really isn't, char only items that aren't reputation or freely reclaimable (though missions for example) makes me feel cheated for purchasing the max number of char slots), cut the price, significantly, to let's say about 20k, 17.5k and 15k.
I hope these insane prices last at most a week if they even make it to Holodeck. I have a slim hope they make it to Holodeck as Acc-Wide and Lower-cost (550 Zen...).
Remember, the Dil store was dieing and you pretty much killed it off because the items it gave were low quality (Mk X and XI and often not upgradeable (seriously, those Andorian Phasers are a rip off, bad procs and stuck at Mk XI Purple with no ability to upgrade, meaning they are outdated the second you get them)).
You have a Z-Store, use it. Please. I would pay Zen (which I would buy with £/$/etc) for Account-Wide unlocks over any other currency for Char-Wide unlocks. Also, have you considered selling Specialisation Points in the Z-store in the boosts section for somewhere between 100 and 500 Zen?
Yes, a fleet store reduces these insane prices, but even with the discount, they are insanely pricey.
If you honestly think a Single Char Only outfit (which excluding the Maco, seems to JUST be a torso piece and combadge) that costs AT LEAST 2.9x more than EVERY SINGLE outfit on the Z-store (which are all account wide), please buy every single one of these outfits on every single one of your Fed/TOSFed characters. At least then Cryptic makes some money from such gullible mugs.
Final note. When something is price-gated so badly (like these), it's pretty much the same as it not existing at all for all but those who have won the lottery, or have their bots farming 24/7 (I support the banning of farming bots by the way), except far more offensive as those few who do have way too much disposable income will use it to taunt the vast majority.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Or, the double whammy of "I need piles of dil, so I want piles of dil for each zen I pony up" combined with "omg, I want that zenny nao so I can get keys / inventory slots / whatnot" means the market has twice the impetuous to spike to 500 than normal...
Maybe by next month will the sink-y effects of this maneuver be felt. Until then, feel the wrath of the 500 club...
It jumped because we have a sale this weekend. 20% off services AND 15% off Keys.
I don't know anyone in this game who only has 1 character, thus math based on 1 character is a fail.
Um, not really, no. I only have one main, plus a Rom alt, that (ironically) Geko killed with his other Dilithium sink: Upgrades. That Rom alt is barely lv 60, but has done no Specializations even; so, at best, I could maybe muster 1 extra farmer.
Or, the double whammy of "I need piles of dil, so I want piles of dil for each zen I pony up" combined with "omg, I want that zenny nao so I can get keys / inventory slots / whatnot" means the market has twice the impetuous to spike to 500 than normal...
Maybe by next month will the sink-y effects of this maneuver be felt. Until then, feel the wrath of the 500 club...
It jumped because we have a sale this weekend. 20% off services AND 15% off Keys.
^ Exactly this. Anytime you have a C-Store sale there will be a price spike for Dil->Zen, because Zen is (and always should be as a RL cash currency) more valuable than Dil.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
They don't honestly expect players to pay between 25$ -50$ for an outfit do they
You mean like players currently pay £50 for a lobi character bound uniform, or £200 for a character bound ship?
Players are already paying these prices.
They're insane right across the board, but the whales will pay it and it might affect the Dil market a little..
The difference is, the Lobi items are for items NOT belonging to a playable faction, like JJ-Trek, Vaadwaur, Na'kuhl, etc. These bloated prices ARE for items belonging to a playable faction.
Not to mention, unless you are really, really unlucky, or just have the good sense to sell the keys and just outright buy the item you want from the exchange from the people who did get lucky with lobi/lockbox ships/etc, the Char Bound ships and Lobi Items are nowhere near the price of these, being only about double the price of a Z-store equivilant (about £10 worth of Zen for a lobi outfit (depends on outfit), about £40 for a boxed ship (depends on ship)) These lobi costumes/boxed ships also run on a luck element, you can theorectically get the outfit in 3 keys (incredibly unlikely) or a boxed ship in 1 key.
No human being could reasonably farm the amount of Dil for these new outfits in less than a few months, let's assume a lucky DBZ run nets the daily 8k refine in 30mins (such luck would never keep up), with the cheapest outfit about 800k+ with Fleet Discounts, that would take 50 solid hours of farming, to get the cheapest outfit on one alt.
The only way to get that much dil is to sell well over 4k Zen for the MACO outfit, or have a farming bot farm a massive number of alts 24/7 (bots really need banning, don't ban the account, just stop the bot itself from being used)). Getting the amount of EC required to outright buy a Lobi Costume or a Boxed Ship can happen with a combination of lucky drops, crafting, general vendor trashing, selling keys, etc.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
I take it, those prices can be brought down via Fleet tasks?
nope
Yes, they can, but they are still insane. The cheapest one is about 800k, the Maco is about 1.6mil, the others are about 1.3mil I think. Rough prices, but it still doesn't make them remotely affordable. If they were Account Wide, I personally wouldn't be too offended by these prices, they would be pricey, but they wouldn't be this level of offensive.
If you can't solve it logically, solve it like a moron.
51 + 1 Foundry Character Slots is NOT enough. Some of us love our characters. If I want to buy more character slots, why can't I? I couldn't experience the entire Delta Recruitment event without deleting a character.
The Iconians themselves can't time travel because their memories revert, but there is nothing to say an Iconian couldn't write everything she needed to do on a PADD, pin it to herself, travel back, read the PADD, do the tasks and return. Or just get one of her Non-Herald underlings to go back in time for her.
Oh yeah, I do Foundry missions for both KDFs and Feds. Just search KSTF (Short for Kinas Special Task Force, where Kinas is the name of the Admiral you will be serving under). The earlier ones are less story based and more combat based, while the later ones have a much heavier story element, but keep the large battles.
I don't know anyone in this game who only has 1 character, thus math based on 1 character is a fail.
Well, no the math is correct no matter how much you would like to deny it. Most people I know have more than one character too. That in no way means there are people who only have and play one character on their account. It's not unheard of at all.
I'd actually love to see PWE/C release some figures on this. Perhaps a table showing the percentage of players and the amount of characters per account to substantiate any claims (either way).
Truth is that no one but PWE/C knows for sure.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I think another worthy statistic for them to release would be the ratio of F2P only accounts that never purchase Zen or aren't Subs/LTS, too. Of course, they will likely never release that, because it wouldn't bode well in the MMO market for sub numbers.
It would, however, silence a lot of forum voices as to who's actually bankrolling this game- Zen buyers or Dil-only F2P leeches.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Comments
I only have one on Neverwinter and Defiance. Used to run only one on WoW because I was focusing on her alone...
Exactly as planned. Sinks like this are based on envy, after all.
I have been proven wrong
I really am quite surprised by that as well, particularly with WoW (I had at least 3 characters on my first day trying to figure out what class to main, lol).
I'll adjust my statement and say that the vast majority of MMO players have more than one character.
That is not the way I play this game, I play to have fun, not make it a second job.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
What were you saying earlier about the minority speaking as if they speak for everybody? I know several people who only have one character, most of whom have been playing since launch but have never had any interest in having any more than one character. Whilst I admit it's rare and I personally don't understand why you wouldn't want at least a few, it does happen and it shouldn't be assumed that everybody has an army of farming toons.
lol no problem. Don't really play WoW much though due to lack of funds. At least the recent promo with the movie bumped me up to Warlords of Draenor, but I couldn't run my main because it was a straight up "seperate instance" of the game. Didn't apply that free month to my existing copy that my Draenei is on.
Well... now you can trade them for rep vouchers so it doesn't eat into your stockpile of DL... I can already get a full ground set on my TOS thanks to her vouchers.
I perhaps should have worded that differently since I have multiple characters myself and don't use them for farming. Hence my signature comment about not having a 'main'. But quite a few people in this thread keep making comments about farming using multiple characters, which not all of us do even if we have multiple characters, that's where my comment came from.
Probably people who stockpiled or sold Zen. I'm sure my Fleet Leader might be able to get them as well. As for me... not likely to happen because I'm already working on a long term project... that was stalled by the high DL Exchange prices.
That is not the way I play this game, I play to have fun, not make it a second job.
<shrug>[/quote]
_________
Completely agree... I've done the farm/second job over on Nevereinter... not again. Once a game starts feeling like that agqin, it's time for another break...
Or, the double whammy of "I need piles of dil, so I want piles of dil for each zen I pony up" combined with "omg, I want that zenny nao so I can get keys / inventory slots / whatnot" means the market has twice the impetuous to spike to 500 than normal...
Maybe by next month will the sink-y effects of this maneuver be felt. Until then, feel the wrath of the 500 club...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Yes it's expensive. But so is a Bugatti Veyron.
It's not like anybody 'needs' any of these things, just like nobody 'needs' to drive a car around that is worth more than 10 houses. But if they have the money and choose to spend it, then that is up to them.
If it helps even out dith prices, then all the better.
Even at max Dil - Zen (500 - 1), the MACO outfit would cost 4000 Zen, or at least 7.2x more than a normal outfit (550 Zen). AND ONE CHAR ONLY! I hate Char Only outfits, it costs a fortune to get the assorted Lobi outfits, but they are a special currency item and also from a non-starfleet, KDF, RomRep source so I can understand them being char only. But these Dil Store outfits are Standard Fed Patterns, and yet cost over 7 times more (or "(7+ * (Number Of Fed Alts)) * 550 Zen" if you want them on all your fed alts). Oh, and for you that don't use Zen to get large amounts of dil, the MACO outfit will take 250 Days of the daily 8k limit to get.
I know you have the misguided vision that Dil is plentiful and EC isn't (seriously, EC is easy to get a few 100k of, Dil is not especially with the refine limit), but this goes beyond that into the realms of offensively pricey. Why not just make them Account wide for let's say 550 Zen each.
But if you really think making them Char Only is a good idea (it really isn't, char only items that aren't reputation or freely reclaimable (though missions for example) makes me feel cheated for purchasing the max number of char slots), cut the price, significantly, to let's say about 20k, 17.5k and 15k.
I hope these insane prices last at most a week if they even make it to Holodeck. I have a slim hope they make it to Holodeck as Acc-Wide and Lower-cost (550 Zen...).
Remember, the Dil store was dieing and you pretty much killed it off because the items it gave were low quality (Mk X and XI and often not upgradeable (seriously, those Andorian Phasers are a rip off, bad procs and stuck at Mk XI Purple with no ability to upgrade, meaning they are outdated the second you get them)).
You have a Z-Store, use it. Please. I would pay Zen (which I would buy with £/$/etc) for Account-Wide unlocks over any other currency for Char-Wide unlocks. Also, have you considered selling Specialisation Points in the Z-store in the boosts section for somewhere between 100 and 500 Zen?
Yes, a fleet store reduces these insane prices, but even with the discount, they are insanely pricey.
If you honestly think a Single Char Only outfit (which excluding the Maco, seems to JUST be a torso piece and combadge) that costs AT LEAST 2.9x more than EVERY SINGLE outfit on the Z-store (which are all account wide), please buy every single one of these outfits on every single one of your Fed/TOSFed characters. At least then Cryptic makes some money from such gullible mugs.
Final note. When something is price-gated so badly (like these), it's pretty much the same as it not existing at all for all but those who have won the lottery, or have their bots farming 24/7 (I support the banning of farming bots by the way), except far more offensive as those few who do have way too much disposable income will use it to taunt the vast majority.
It jumped because we have a sale this weekend. 20% off services AND 15% off Keys.
Um, not really, no. I only have one main, plus a Rom alt, that (ironically) Geko killed with his other Dilithium sink: Upgrades. That Rom alt is barely lv 60, but has done no Specializations even; so, at best, I could maybe muster 1 extra farmer.
^ Exactly this. Anytime you have a C-Store sale there will be a price spike for Dil->Zen, because Zen is (and always should be as a RL cash currency) more valuable than Dil.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I am sorry to go off-topic, but may I ask what your male Vulcan wears on that Rubicon banner?
I can't identify that armor...
The difference is, the Lobi items are for items NOT belonging to a playable faction, like JJ-Trek, Vaadwaur, Na'kuhl, etc. These bloated prices ARE for items belonging to a playable faction.
Not to mention, unless you are really, really unlucky, or just have the good sense to sell the keys and just outright buy the item you want from the exchange from the people who did get lucky with lobi/lockbox ships/etc, the Char Bound ships and Lobi Items are nowhere near the price of these, being only about double the price of a Z-store equivilant (about £10 worth of Zen for a lobi outfit (depends on outfit), about £40 for a boxed ship (depends on ship)) These lobi costumes/boxed ships also run on a luck element, you can theorectically get the outfit in 3 keys (incredibly unlikely) or a boxed ship in 1 key.
No human being could reasonably farm the amount of Dil for these new outfits in less than a few months, let's assume a lucky DBZ run nets the daily 8k refine in 30mins (such luck would never keep up), with the cheapest outfit about 800k+ with Fleet Discounts, that would take 50 solid hours of farming, to get the cheapest outfit on one alt.
The only way to get that much dil is to sell well over 4k Zen for the MACO outfit, or have a farming bot farm a massive number of alts 24/7 (bots really need banning, don't ban the account, just stop the bot itself from being used)). Getting the amount of EC required to outright buy a Lobi Costume or a Boxed Ship can happen with a combination of lucky drops, crafting, general vendor trashing, selling keys, etc.
Yes, they can, but they are still insane. The cheapest one is about 800k, the Maco is about 1.6mil, the others are about 1.3mil I think. Rough prices, but it still doesn't make them remotely affordable. If they were Account Wide, I personally wouldn't be too offended by these prices, they would be pricey, but they wouldn't be this level of offensive.
I'd actually love to see PWE/C release some figures on this. Perhaps a table showing the percentage of players and the amount of characters per account to substantiate any claims (either way).
Truth is that no one but PWE/C knows for sure.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
It would, however, silence a lot of forum voices as to who's actually bankrolling this game- Zen buyers or Dil-only F2P leeches.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.