I've heard this story before, and I don't buy it. CBS isn't concerned with the integrity of the Star Trek legacy, or they would have closed this game down years ago. They're only interested in is lining their pockets, which selling us an endgame Constitution would do. Thus, the entire issue perplexes me.
As for the rest, I'm never an a-hole to anyone. People should be free to enjoy the ships if they want to. I just don't think it should come at the expense of those of us who want something different.
Well it would kinda ruin the atmosphere of the game. But thats besides the point. We can't get mad at players when it's CBS who isn't budging. I know people want a T6 TOS Connie, but if it hasn't happened in the last 6 years, It unfortunately probably won't happen.
Now that being said:
I still don't get people gripes with the new Connie.
They needed something to revive the franchise.
Remember Star Trek takes place in the future the 23rd century. Well now all the stuff we have now in the 21st kinda makes TOS look extremely dated. So they had to kinda modernize it. I think JJ did a great job on the first movie, he had to start somewhere and he revived a dead franchise. Without the new movies a new TV series wouldn't be happening. He sparked interested back into the genre.
I don't know how it would ruin the atmosphere of the game any more than people flying Breen, Ferengi, Voth, etc., etc., etc. ships all over the place, all coloured with Reman colours or Tron glowie bits, with smoke trailing here and there...
I mean, it's only the ship that STARTED Star Trek.
If I had to guess... Well its a 23rd Century ship in the 25th Century... Also it ruins the Immersion of being in the future if everyones cruising around in 200+ year old ships.
You could say it's a Temporal Ship or whatnot. I mean, people are flying around in Daedaluses, so why not Connies?
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it.
Also I agree with your statement. While I do not personally like the Alternate Universe Star Trek films (because as standalone films, they are pretty mediocre, and as Star Trek films, they don't really feel very Trek to me- they feel more like a mix between Star Wars and Star Trek), I don't mind the ships being in STO and I don't hate people who love the reboot Star Trek films. Opinions are opinions, one is not more right than another.
Chill out, CBS aren't taking your pretend spaceships away. The existence of new things does not remove or invalidate what has come before.
But it does remove the possibility of getting more of the sort of thing that 'came before'. The Star Wars EU was hit with the same kind of 'this will never be continued, ever' as the prime universe most likely has. (If the new series doesn't go back to the prime universe, then Kelvin it is, and I can only pray CBS doesn't repeat Abrams' mistakes.)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Chill out, CBS aren't taking your pretend spaceships away. The existence of new things does not remove or invalidate what has come before.
But it does remove the possibility of getting more of the sort of thing that 'came before'. The Star Wars EU was hit with the same kind of 'this will never be continued, ever' as the prime universe most likely has. (If the new series doesn't go back to the prime universe, then Kelvin it is, and I can only pray CBS doesn't repeat Abrams' mistakes.)
have you SEEN the list of writers they hired for the show? even if it is set in the kelvin timeline, with talent like that, it will be the best star trek show ever and the viewers will love it!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it
Yes, the T'laru's placement sucks - especially since it could pass as a prime universe ship with virtually no modification. However, the Connie and D4x have a firm origin in the Kelvin Timeline as craft not designed or built by the playable factions - that means they're in lockbox territory.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Chill out, CBS aren't taking your pretend spaceships away. The existence of new things does not remove or invalidate what has come before.
But it does remove the possibility of getting more of the sort of thing that 'came before'. The Star Wars EU was hit with the same kind of 'this will never be continued, ever' as the prime universe most likely has. (If the new series doesn't go back to the prime universe, then Kelvin it is, and I can only pray CBS doesn't repeat Abrams' mistakes.)
have you SEEN the list of writers they hired for the show? even if it is set in the kelvin timeline, with talent like that, it will be the best star trek show ever and the viewers will love it!
Regardless, I would be more optimistic if I heard confirmation that it's set in the prime universe. (Also, remember where that quote of yours originated...)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it
Yes, the T'laru's placement sucks - especially since it could pass as a prime universe ship with virtually no modification. However, the Connie and D4x have a firm origin in the Kelvin Timeline as craft not designed or built by the playable factions - that means they're in lockbox territory.
True, very much so. Since the KT Connie and D4x were so prominently in the AU films, it does kind of make sense for them to be in a lockbox, but as grand prizes? I don't know. Maybe (since the D4x seems like a pretty decent BOP from just looking at the stats)?
Chill out, CBS aren't taking your pretend spaceships away. The existence of new things does not remove or invalidate what has come before.
But it does remove the possibility of getting more of the sort of thing that 'came before'. The Star Wars EU was hit with the same kind of 'this will never be continued, ever' as the prime universe most likely has. (If the new series doesn't go back to the prime universe, then Kelvin it is, and I can only pray CBS doesn't repeat Abrams' mistakes.)
I know right! The EU is gone forever! And they totally got completely RID of Grand Admiral Thrawn even!
Reason is simple. People wanted an endgame TOS Constitution, not the JJ/AR/KT Enterprise. And after years of asking for it, STO gets "another" Constitution. Some people is going to be pissed off, assume it, as they feel cheated or laughed off; they've been asking for a ship, they don't get it and, instead, other people get "their" ship without even asking for it.
Dude...you don't speak for me. I could care less for a "constitution". IMHO we have plenty of those "old" ships. For me they don't have the updated looks and we already have a bunch of those anyways.
I'm neutral about the Kelvins and if I have a voice...I'd probably would have taken a different path instead of those designs... At least they are "newer" looking than same boring stuff. PWE is growing and tried to appease ALL players...those hardcore and set on older canon stuff and the new hipsters who like the JJ ships. I think there is room for both and why flame others if you use "certain ships".
I rather fly a Borg cube myself rather or what about spliting off these two games into old STO and new STO?
or what about spliting off these two games into old STO and new STO?
they already considered that for AoY...and immediately rejected it because they didn't want two star trek games competing against each other in their game portfolio
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I don't dislike the JJ movies as movies, only the underlying concept of a remake in itself. If you're going to create an all new movie with an all new cast and an all new plot not continuing any existing storylines, in an all new style intended for an all new audience, IMHO you should have the decency to give it an all new name to go with it. Giving it a famous name just to cash in on the famous name seems a little dishonest to me.
If they'd actually called the movies "The Kelvin Timeline," this whole controversy wouldn't exist.
But Star Trek it is and now it's in STO. Ironically, the Kelvin Timeline stuff actually fits into STO much better than it fit into canon Trek. Flying ships from an alternate universe is, after all, par for the course here.
It wasn't a remake, just like Jurassic World wasn't a remake of Jurassic Park. It's a fresh start that breathes new life into the franchise, while at the same time maintaining everything that has come before. Reboot? Yes, but that's not a bad thing.
The simple facts are the people that make the money decisions saw the response to Enterprise and Nemesis and, instead of listening to the legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the story telling in those, decided fans were just bored with Trek and wanted something new. Executives don't understand the franchise, they understand dollar signs. Could they have made the same money by continuing to make Prime Universe movies? Yes, but there's no way anyone could have convinced them of that. So if it wasn't JJ trek it would have been something very similar, or just no new Trek at all.
I don't dislike the JJ movies as movies, only the underlying concept of a remake in itself. If you're going to create an all new movie with an all new cast and an all new plot not continuing any existing storylines, in an all new style intended for an all new audience, IMHO you should have the decency to give it an all new name to go with it. Giving it a famous name just to cash in on the famous name seems a little dishonest to me.
If they'd actually called the movies "The Kelvin Timeline," this whole controversy wouldn't exist.
But Star Trek it is and now it's in STO. Ironically, the Kelvin Timeline stuff actually fits into STO much better than it fit into canon Trek. Flying ships from an alternate universe is, after all, par for the course here.
It wasn't a remake, just like Jurassic World wasn't a remake of Jurassic Park. It's a fresh start that breathes new life into the franchise, while at the same time maintaining everything that has come before. Reboot? Yes, but that's not a bad thing.
The simple facts are the people that make the money decisions saw the response to Enterprise and Nemesis and, instead of listening to the legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the story telling in those, decided fans were just bored with Trek and wanted something new. Executives don't understand the franchise, they understand dollar signs. Could they have made the same money by continuing to make Prime Universe movies? Yes, but there's no way anyone could have convinced them of that. So if it wasn't JJ trek it would have been something very similar, or just no new Trek at all.
Executives, to me, are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent. They are also the same folks who, when intelligent shows or films are suggested "WE understand what you are trying to portray, but the audience wont"....such egos. I remember Ralph Bakshi talking about this very topic in one of the commentaries of his films, Wizards, I think it was.
All I see made since 2009 was just flashy "pew pew!" leave your brain at home popcorn flicks like Transformers and the million or so super hero flicks out there.
All I see made since 2009 was just flashy "pew pew!" leave your brain at home popcorn flicks like Transformers and the million or so super hero flicks out there.
No, that were Star Trek: First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis. And two seasons of ST: Enterprise.
The pew-pew-stuff was actually used sparingly in ST (2009) - and Into Darkness didn't have that much more of that than TWoK either.
I don't dislike the JJ movies as movies, only the underlying concept of a remake in itself. If you're going to create an all new movie with an all new cast and an all new plot not continuing any existing storylines, in an all new style intended for an all new audience, IMHO you should have the decency to give it an all new name to go with it. Giving it a famous name just to cash in on the famous name seems a little dishonest to me.
If they'd actually called the movies "The Kelvin Timeline," this whole controversy wouldn't exist.
But Star Trek it is and now it's in STO. Ironically, the Kelvin Timeline stuff actually fits into STO much better than it fit into canon Trek. Flying ships from an alternate universe is, after all, par for the course here.
It wasn't a remake, just like Jurassic World wasn't a remake of Jurassic Park. It's a fresh start that breathes new life into the franchise, while at the same time maintaining everything that has come before. Reboot? Yes, but that's not a bad thing.
The simple facts are the people that make the money decisions saw the response to Enterprise and Nemesis and, instead of listening to the legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the story telling in those, decided fans were just bored with Trek and wanted something new. Executives don't understand the franchise, they understand dollar signs. Could they have made the same money by continuing to make Prime Universe movies? Yes, but there's no way anyone could have convinced them of that. So if it wasn't JJ trek it would have been something very similar, or just no new Trek at all.
Executives, to me, are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent. They are also the same folks who, when intelligent shows or films are suggested "WE understand what you are trying to portray, but the audience wont"....such egos. I remember Ralph Bakshi talking about this very topic in one of the commentaries of his films, Wizards, I think it was.
All I see made since 2009 was just flashy "pew pew!" leave your brain at home popcorn flicks like Transformers and the million or so super hero flicks out there.
And guess what, most of the masses WANT THAT. Amazing how that works.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Look at 'The Dark Knight' for example. Horrendously popular, and almost every superhero movie subsequent has tried to follow the 'dark and gritty' feel of it, with wildly varying degrees of success.
But... that's because the producers and directors that jumped on the train didn't undestand WHY 'The Dark Knight' was so popular. They just saw a popular movie.
The movie was mostly popular because of Heath Ledger, his performance as the Joker, which was even more hyped because of Ledger's death.
We do not have an endgame Constitution. We have a ship that from some angles looks remotely like a Constitution but which completely falls through upon closer inspection.
It's dedication plaque states Constitution Class.
Missing the point entirely. You know full well it's not the Constitution class people were asking for. If it had been a giant purple bubble with pink wings and they called it a Constitution class, would you still say it's the same thing?
It's a different ship, why would it be the TOS one? It's the KT lockbox.
Again, missing the point. Imagine how you would feel if for years you asked your parents to buy you a dog and when they finally get you a pet, they get you a cat. It's simply not what was being asked for.
And therein lies the crux of your issue. You're incapable of thinking in non-binary terms. Why not both? Not every situation is a either or.
To some of us, these ships are just ugly. To most of us, they symbolise a radically wrong direction the franchise has taken.
Correct, the Galaxy is a revolting looking unbalanced fat ship and TNG is a mockery of TOS...
...Oh, sorry, I thought this was the 70s and ST fans were resistant to change.
I never cared for the look of the Galaxy, but the SHOW followed naturally from the original series. I think the new ship looks terrible, but that's a matter of opinion. In this case, the best thing they could have done is make the ship with TWO models, so you could choose the one you prefer.
Followed on naturally? Really? That explains all the bitching it encountered when it started... hey, that sounds familiar.
And why would they have given it two models, they're different ships. The TOS one can't use the TMP skin so why should the KT one use either?
Oh, the first season was terrible, to be sure. Second season was better, but they really didn't hit their stride until the 3rd season. In any case, the show followed naturally from TOS in that it didn't discard everything that TOS did. It built on the stories, it didn't discard them.
And there are PLENTY of ships in the game with multiple models (eg. Cheyenne/Stargazer/Dakota/Constellation).
But not any more. Cryptic stopped adding anymore than token customisation on ships a long time ago.
Abrams Trek is divisive, and that is the case because it splits the fandom into those who love Star Trek the way it used to be. The Trek of TOS, TNG and large parts of DS9, of which we'll only find traces in VOY and ENT.
So VOY and ENT are also divisive? Did you know DS9 is as well? All that trekking around one station and all that war? Or TNG is? All of ST is divisive.
Voyager and Enterprise are divisive because of different reasons. They had TERRIBLE stories. DS9 had great stories, but of a type unusual for Star Trek. JJTrek is loathed because of its terrible stories and the disservice it does to the established Star Trek universe.
Terrible stories? Nope, not fantastic, but not even close to as bad as the entirety of TNG series 1 or 2.
What disservice? It's not set in the established Star Trek universe, it's in the KT hence the name of the series.
Terrible, yes. The very foundation of Voyager was predicated on a plot contrivance - Janeway couldn't figure out how to set a timer. However, I was willing to set that aside and give them time to find their legs. They never did, and we ended up with drek like Threshold. Even the final episode... they spent the whole series trying to get back to Earth, and the episode ends before they actually GOT there.
JJ wiped out everything TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager ever did, and did it while inexplicably changing the personalities and backgrounds of all the characters people have known for half a century, and in the presence of TERRIBLE science.
He wiped away nothing. It's still an alternate reality. Terrible science! Really! Oh for goodness sake. That's the same thing I posted JJJ laughing to. Star Trek has never bothered with science.
Now Abrams comes around and in his film he changes everything around. He destroys two of the most iconic locations fans have always loved - Romulus and Vulcan
Who loved Romulus?
I did, for one.
As did I but it's hardly on par with Vulcan or Kronos.
Agreed. My real problem with the destruction of Romulus was the cause. Specifically, Romulans use a forced singularity as a power source, they're experts at stellar mechanics... yet somehow had no idea there was going to be a nova?
Their ships are powered by singularities presumably formed by Red Matter, nothing to do with stars.
Spock isn't clever enough to figure out he can save Vulcan by walking over to a Federation outpost and warning the Federation of impending doom,
Really? He's just had his planet blown up and you assume he's in his right mind? Really?
Yes, really. He's a trained officer, and a VULCAN. One doesn't get to be a full Commander without learning self discipline, and being Vulcan takes that discipline to an entirely other level. Spock - the REAL Spock - would never have lost it like that.
I really don't think you can grasp what it would be like to lose an ENTIRE PLANET! I'm not sure if you've seen TOS or not, but Spock's not a robot, he utilises several subtle emotions throughout the series, that's why he bothers with the purging thing in TMP. So no, TOS Spock would breakdown from the deaths of about 7 billion Vulcans because he's Spock, not Data.
Believe me, I know Spock VERY well. In fact, that's what people used to call me when I was growing up. Certainly, Spock would have been affected by the death of Vulcan, but his discipline would have allowed him to carry on. It CERTAINLY wouldn't have made him unable to think or reason, or to do things that make no sense (like marooning Kirk).
No, no it really would't. He's just telepathically felt the pain of several billion of his people.
new-Spock isn't master of his own emotions and has a fling with Uhura,
And...?
And, it's inappropriate for the character.
No it isn't. He clearly has a close relationship with her in TOS, it just doesn't go much further than glances. I'm not sure where you get the idea that Vulcans don't have relationships from.
Spock didn't have a relationship with Uhura in the original series. About the only thing that they had in common was music, and they only shared that once or twice. Additionally, a Vulcan doesn't indulge in the kind of public displays Spock was doing, and the death of Kirk's father sure wouldn't change that.
Where's that stated? Because it doesn't appear anybody told T'Pol.
Kirk Prime had a father, KT Kirk had an abusive stepfather. Wow, different upbringings can create different people.
Yep. Now explain how the death of Kirk's father changes the procreation habits of the Chekov family (since Pavel is around 10 years YOUNGER than Kirk, or changes the training of Vulcans such that Spock ceases to behave like himself something like 30 years before meeting Kirk, etc.
I'll ignore the Spock thing because you seem to completely misunderstand him, but yes, the Checkov this is a genuine mistake. Score one for Prime Trek, then strike that due to Spock's magic brother from TFF.
The suggestion that I don't understand Spock is so laughable, I'll just ignore it. Ugh, Final Frontier. I'll agree with you on that, it was AWFUL. Even Gene declared it was apocryphal (ie. it never happened).
You clearly mistake him for a robot.
new-Sulu doesn't even realise the handbrake is on (or whatever they called it)
Here you go kid, here's the Federation Flagship, try not to get nervous and make simple mistakes eh?
He's a LIEUTENANT. He's not a rookie, he's been in the service long enough to know how to fly a ship.
Hmm, he's piloting the flagship, something he's likely never done outside of a simulation as he's not even the helmsman who's meant to be there, but also on a mission to Vulcan that's under attack. Gosh, somebody is having to take the reins in such an emergency, and they forget one tiny thing! It could be worse, imagine if their Chief Engineer couldn't understand algebra?
An officer that made that mistake wouldn't be an officer for long.
Ha! How many times did Wesley almost destroy the Enterprise? Paris, Kim, Seven, all did far worse things than delaying warp for all of 15 seconds. So no, Starfleet gives people chances.
, new-Scott is a complete screwball played by an actor who just cannot do a serious role (love him as a comedian, but not here)...
Because Scotty was always the serious one right?
Serious, no. I actually didn't mind Scotty that much, apart from his ability to override the laws of physics, as established by the shows (eg. beaming to a ship at warp without matching speed, something they couldn't even do in TNG... there are other examples).
Warp 14. Warp 14. I really don't believe you've seen TOS at all.
Kilometers or miles per hour? They only recalibrated the warp scale. I see no problem there. The problem is that the technology is made to do things it can't actually do, according to the canon. It would be like saying a time traveller could adapt the cannons on Lord Nelson's ship to fire cruise missiles. Sure, he might be able to explain the technology, but the equipment of that era would be incapable of USING that technology.
No they didn't. That's non-canon fanwank to try explain away Warp 14. No recalibration, no imperial measuring system, flat out space-magic, because that's what Scotty does.
pair that with radically different aesthetics (e.g. apple store bridge, brewery engine room)
You'd prefer cardboard and primary colours?
Yes, actually. I think that's part of our point. That said, I don't DISLIKE the new bridge, except that it's not very utilitarian. I actually LOVE the Kelvin bridge.
The point seemed to be that things should not be updated. I don't like the interior of the KonsTitution, or at least the Turbine Control Room, Warp Core, Auxiliary Warp Cores etc. But I like all the rest of it, the bridge, brig, sickbay, corridors, etc. But this isn't a point against the KT films so much as it is a rehashed argument against TMP then TNG then ENT.
Again, I had no problem with changing things. I went into the new series with an open mind. Unfortunately, they changed things that had no reason to be changed, did things that made no sense, ignored scientific realities we know TODAY, and just generally insulted our intelligence too much for me to be able to accept it.
So, just like any new Star Trek series then.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Look at 'The Dark Knight' for example. Horrendously popular, and almost every superhero movie subsequent has tried to follow the 'dark and gritty' feel of it, with wildly varying degrees of success.
But... that's because the producers and directors that jumped on the train didn't undestand WHY 'The Dark Knight' was so popular. They just saw a popular movie.
The movie was mostly popular because of Heath Ledger, his performance as the Joker, which was even more hyped because of Ledger's death.
Also Batman, unlike most other comics, is supposed to be dark and gritty like that anyway. Dark and gritty doesn't fit a hero like superman nearly as well.
I don't dislike the JJ movies as movies, only the underlying concept of a remake in itself. If you're going to create an all new movie with an all new cast and an all new plot not continuing any existing storylines, in an all new style intended for an all new audience, IMHO you should have the decency to give it an all new name to go with it. Giving it a famous name just to cash in on the famous name seems a little dishonest to me.
If they'd actually called the movies "The Kelvin Timeline," this whole controversy wouldn't exist.
But Star Trek it is and now it's in STO. Ironically, the Kelvin Timeline stuff actually fits into STO much better than it fit into canon Trek. Flying ships from an alternate universe is, after all, par for the course here.
It wasn't a remake, just like Jurassic World wasn't a remake of Jurassic Park. It's a fresh start that breathes new life into the franchise, while at the same time maintaining everything that has come before. Reboot? Yes, but that's not a bad thing.
The simple facts are the people that make the money decisions saw the response to Enterprise and Nemesis and, instead of listening to the legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the story telling in those, decided fans were just bored with Trek and wanted something new. Executives don't understand the franchise, they understand dollar signs. Could they have made the same money by continuing to make Prime Universe movies? Yes, but there's no way anyone could have convinced them of that. So if it wasn't JJ trek it would have been something very similar, or just no new Trek at all.
Executives, to me, are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent. They are also the same folks who, when intelligent shows or films are suggested "WE understand what you are trying to portray, but the audience wont"....such egos. I remember Ralph Bakshi talking about this very topic in one of the commentaries of his films, Wizards, I think it was.
All I see made since 2009 was just flashy "pew pew!" leave your brain at home popcorn flicks like Transformers and the million or so super hero flicks out there.
And guess what, most of the masses WANT THAT. Amazing how that works.
Well, the masses also act like whatever nonsense Kim and Kanye do, or Steve Harvey's boo-boo at Miss Universe, or some fat TRIBBLE woman's chewbacca mask actually matters.
, a shaky camera, excessive lens flares and a plethora of mindless action sequences (something especially Nemesis was guilty of, too) and you get a very bad mix.
You'd prefer two ships hung from strings a metre from each other with drawn on lasers? I can see why you'd hate excitement.
Strawman. No one ever said that.
Without action sequences, the action becomes stale. 'Mindless' is generally a substitute for exciting when somebody doesn't want to say that. I didn't like the story of 'Nemesis', but I'm not daft enough to pretend it wasn't a spectacle to watch. And I don't even like the choices made in 09. I hated the lense flare, dutch angles, shaky cam, and zoom shoots because it made it so hard to appreciate all the astonishing detail and care that went into the construction of the ships, sets, locations and the whole piece.
Quite. I have no problem with having more action, but it can't be used to obfuscate the lack of a story or the irrational behaviour of the characters. I can't be blinded by shiny explosions and lens flare.
Apparently people can because they ignore the plots and pretend they don't exist building a strawman of the film they can hate.
And the worst of it all is: Previous re-imaginings of the Trek universe respected what came before. Previous series always added to what was there before. Even Enterprise came out and 'fixed' most discrepancies by saying they were later corrected in the timeline.
This did add to what was there before, what came before was ENT. the KT builds on that. It's an alternate timeline.
This is debatable, for some of the reasons I cited before. Part of the issue is that Enterprise was so badly written too.
Still, the KT does not contradict or disrespect anything in ENT. It's completely unrelated to any of the other shows.
Not directly, no. Enterprise was troubled by the same kinds of problems JJ's films are, though. Weak stories, bad characterization, contrived plot elements, etc. Sure, it had its moments (as did Voyager, and as did JJ's films), but it was pretty bad too. You might argue that JJ just followed up on THAT!
It's no better or worse than ENT take that as you will.
No, it's true. Abrams even said Star Trek fans would hate the movie, that he wasn't a Star Trek fan.
Oh, sorry, I forgot JJ was the only person involved in the film. Starship Class, Delta Vega, Pike, Cardassians, Section 31, the Daystrom Institute, Sulu's sword fighting skills. The films are full of detailed beneath the surface that you ignore because you don't want to know.
Much of what's there references the original material, but it's been distorted. Calling the ship a "Starship" isn't an homage, it's just what it is. Delta Vega wasn't a moon of Vulcan, it was a planet near the EDGE OF THE GALAXY. Pike was a character in TOS, but his personality is totally different in JJTrek. I saw no Cardassians, Section 31 or Daystrom institute references in JJTrek, but I might have missed those. Sulu was a FENCER, not a samurai or ninja; Douglas Fairbanks, not Toshiro Mifune.
Nope, it's a direct homage to the original dedication plaque. Delta Vega isn't a moon of Vulcan in the film, Pike's characterisation is spot on, Cardassian drinks were ordered in 09, the Daystrom institute was bombed in ID, s31 were the main badguys of ID! And Sulu had fencing training, that's the line he says in the film.
It portrays a timeline incursion at a pivotal point in the Trek storyline simply so they can completely disregard anything that was released before, and they do it with a vengeance. Into Darkness was not one wee bit better
Correct. So what's your point? If you understand it's a alternate timeline why are you bothered?
Because its BAD STORYTELLING. Nothing makes sense and the characters act like idiots. I mean, Spock maroons Kirk on a planet/moon apparently in orbit around a planet being consumed by a black hole. What did he thing would happen to that planet? Why not simply throw Kirk in the BRIG? It was a brainless contrivance to further the vapid plot, and one of many.
In orbit aro... what? Delta Vega is not in the Vulcan system. Are you seriously trying to use coincidence as a argument as to how the KT films are against the spirit of 'True Trek TM'. Are you seriously suggesting that?
If Delta Vega wasn't in the Vulcan system, how was old Spock able to watch the destruction of Vulcan from there? For Vulcan to appear in the sky as large as it did in the film, it HAD to be in orbit of Vulcan (or Vulcan was orbitting IT).
I duno. It's been suggested this was a sort of vision thing which would be quite nice piece of Vulcan worldbuilding.
If you look at it closely, the temporal incursion in Abrams Trek does not explain most differences. Abrams Trek does not feel like it's Star Trek at all. The Kelvin alone, a ship supposedly from the prime universe into which the incursion from the prime universe future took place... it should have been a Daedalus class or something, not this monstrosity. The Nerada is equally horrible. Looks like a bad attempt at doing a Shadow vessel from Babylon 5. Certainly not like a Romulan ship.
A Daedalus? I don't think you can count. The Kelvin is a perfect example of a future version of an ENT era ship. All bare metal, turreted weapons, an industrial look, and realistic bridge. And the Nerada ia a Romulan ship with borg bits. Even if you don't accept that bit it's a civilian mining ship. It's not going to look like a military ship is it?
I didn't mind the Kelvin. However, why would they go back to little turrets when they had beam weapons in Enterprise? Otherwise, it was a good looking ship. Nerada, on the other hand was an idiotic design, and no, you don't get to say it's part Borg, because that never appeared in the film. It isn't in the film, you don't get credit for it. A mining ship is a WORKING ship, it's going to be utilitarian. Nerada is decidedly NOT. The interior is as bad, with tiny walkways and no railings, and whatnot.
They didn't go back to them, they went to them. Just earlier. ENT had beams fired from turrets, the Kelvin had pulses fired from turrets, TOS had beams fired from emitters, the TOS films pulses fired from emitters and TNG onwards beams fired from arrays.
The Nerada is a mining ship, it full of space, where else would it fit all the ore? Asteroids are pretty big things you know.
Yeah, I suppose I can see similarities to the phasers from Wrath of Khan. The Nerada was not constructed in any kind of utilitarian way. All those spines on the front of the ship, what were they FOR? I didn't see anything on that ship that suggested it was built to mine.
Grabbing asteroids and tearing them apart at a guess.
No other change in or to the Trek universe has ever been this divisive, no other change has ever been this destructive.
That's cute. Every new series had undergone the same amount of hate.
Not true. They all cause a bit of controversy, but nothing like this.
That's observational bias. You're seeing this first hand on the internet. A system of bitching that just didn't exist back when TMP destroyed TOS, or when TNG destroyed TOS, or when DS9 destroyed TNG, or when VOY destroyed ST in general. Hell, even ENTwas on the fringes of the explosion of the internet, it predates Youtube for goodness sake.
Sure, there's been disagreement, and people who vehemently dislike each of the new series. My own parents have no interest in anything but the TOS. However, I've never seen ANY division of the fanbase as deep as this, and I've been around a while now.
Again, the internet has never been this large or mainstream.
Because they're trying to tell us (as you has in your intro post) that we've go an endgame Connie now - which we don't because that ship does not deserve to be called that.
It's dedication plaque states Constitution Class.
A giant purple bubble with pink wings and a dedication plaque that says Constitution class would also be a Constitution class, but clearly NOT the one we were asking for.
I'd fly one.
With good stats, I'm sure some people would fly anything. However, most of those people are not here for the Star Trek, they're just here for the GAME. It's a subtle distinction.
The ships themselves are despised because of what they represent. Because they're the symbol for all that is wrong with Abrams Trek - which we don't want to see in the game as it constantly reminds us of it.
There's nothing wrong with the KT and the ships least of all.
See everything I said above. Bad writing, bad characterization, ignorance of known science, disregard for the existing canon, disregard for the existing fans, etc.
Oh look, you're describing all of Star Trek. So vague. So general.
No, not really. Sure, there were some contradictions that slipped through the cracks, but they were always careful to be as consistent as they could be, especially by the time of TNG. The science was kept as realistic and accurate as possible. Characters behaved in consistent ways (until Janeway came along, at least). Stories followed logical paths and didn't employ gratuitous plot contrivances (generally).
No, no they really weren't. Seriously, ST is narrative first, since, continuity, logic second. That's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
and thus they've moved away from trying to please Trekkies. That is not the fault of those players who happen to like Abrams Trek, it's the fault of those who decided to put these vessels into the game in the first place.
I can hear the bagpipes of the True Scotsman warming up.
On this point, I can understand them putting them in the game. People did want them. However people ALSO wanted the REAL Star Trek ships. (Oh, and I'm of Scottish heritage)
These are real Star trek ships. Unless you mean the ships of 'True Trek TM'? It's a good job they're in the game then. Not T6 yet, but a TOS Constitution will no doubt be on the cards, it's not the 50th yet.
We're still hoping. As I say, all they really need do is make it a variant for the JJConnie.
This is the reason I asked for a graphics mod in an earlier thread, to allow those of us to have a visual alternative who do not constantly want to be reminded of Abrams Trek through the visuals of the ships, that new uniform pack and (I fear) more stuff to come, without trying to force it on those players who happen to like it.
Really? Do you think we can do that with the TNG visuals as well because some of us really don't want to see the Galaxy at all. I don't see why we should have TNG shoved down out throats in this ST game. Everybody knows TNG is not 'True Star Trek TM'.
Actually, I suggested this when the game launched, a client side mod that would let each player play in the era they want.
Pointless waste of resources.
To YOU. Many of us would think otherwise.
A minority thankfully.
[/quote]
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it
Yes, the T'laru's placement sucks - especially since it could pass as a prime universe ship with virtually no modification. However, the Connie and D4x have a firm origin in the Kelvin Timeline as craft not designed or built by the playable factions - that means they're in lockbox territory.
Not necessarily. There are other non-faction ships in the C-Store like the Dauntless and the Fek'Ihri carrier.
Anyway, having them as lockbox ships is just fine by me, but if they're not faction ships why are they faction restricted?
And I still see the hate train moving along. God all you "purists" who want to hold onto the past make me sick. Again think this is what Gene Roddenberry wanted?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it
Yes, the T'laru's placement sucks - especially since it could pass as a prime universe ship with virtually no modification. However, the Connie and D4x have a firm origin in the Kelvin Timeline as craft not designed or built by the playable factions - that means they're in lockbox territory.
Not necessarily. There are other non-faction ships in the C-Store like the Dauntless and the Fek'Ihri carrier.
Anyway, having them as lockbox ships is just fine by me, but if they're not faction ships why are they faction restricted?
And I'm still sad they didn't give us Narada.
the fek'irhi carrier predates lockboxes...but yeah, i'm surprised the dauntless made it into the c-store when the temporal science vessel didn't
the wells may have been from the far future, but at least it was a federation ship unlike the dauntless
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
, a shaky camera, excessive lens flares and a plethora of mindless action sequences (something especially Nemesis was guilty of, too) and you get a very bad mix.
You'd prefer two ships hung from strings a metre from each other with drawn on lasers? I can see why you'd hate excitement.
Strawman. No one ever said that.
Without action sequences, the action becomes stale. 'Mindless' is generally a substitute for exciting when somebody doesn't want to say that. I didn't like the story of 'Nemesis', but I'm not daft enough to pretend it wasn't a spectacle to watch. And I don't even like the choices made in 09. I hated the lense flare, dutch angles, shaky cam, and zoom shoots because it made it so hard to appreciate all the astonishing detail and care that went into the construction of the ships, sets, locations and the whole piece.
Quite. I have no problem with having more action, but it can't be used to obfuscate the lack of a story or the irrational behaviour of the characters. I can't be blinded by shiny explosions and lens flare.
Apparently people can because they ignore the plots and pretend they don't exist building a strawman of the film they can hate.
And the worst of it all is: Previous re-imaginings of the Trek universe respected what came before. Previous series always added to what was there before. Even Enterprise came out and 'fixed' most discrepancies by saying they were later corrected in the timeline.
This did add to what was there before, what came before was ENT. the KT builds on that. It's an alternate timeline.
This is debatable, for some of the reasons I cited before. Part of the issue is that Enterprise was so badly written too.
Still, the KT does not contradict or disrespect anything in ENT. It's completely unrelated to any of the other shows.
Not directly, no. Enterprise was troubled by the same kinds of problems JJ's films are, though. Weak stories, bad characterization, contrived plot elements, etc. Sure, it had its moments (as did Voyager, and as did JJ's films), but it was pretty bad too. You might argue that JJ just followed up on THAT!
It's no better or worse than ENT take that as you will.
No, it's true. Abrams even said Star Trek fans would hate the movie, that he wasn't a Star Trek fan.
Oh, sorry, I forgot JJ was the only person involved in the film. Starship Class, Delta Vega, Pike, Cardassians, Section 31, the Daystrom Institute, Sulu's sword fighting skills. The films are full of detailed beneath the surface that you ignore because you don't want to know.
Much of what's there references the original material, but it's been distorted. Calling the ship a "Starship" isn't an homage, it's just what it is. Delta Vega wasn't a moon of Vulcan, it was a planet near the EDGE OF THE GALAXY. Pike was a character in TOS, but his personality is totally different in JJTrek. I saw no Cardassians, Section 31 or Daystrom institute references in JJTrek, but I might have missed those. Sulu was a FENCER, not a samurai or ninja; Douglas Fairbanks, not Toshiro Mifune.
Nope, it's a direct homage to the original dedication plaque. Delta Vega isn't a moon of Vulcan in the film, Pike's characterisation is spot on, Cardassian drinks were ordered in 09, the Daystrom institute was bombed in ID, s31 were the main badguys of ID! And Sulu had fencing training, that's the line he says in the film.
It portrays a timeline incursion at a pivotal point in the Trek storyline simply so they can completely disregard anything that was released before, and they do it with a vengeance. Into Darkness was not one wee bit better
Correct. So what's your point? If you understand it's a alternate timeline why are you bothered?
Because its BAD STORYTELLING. Nothing makes sense and the characters act like idiots. I mean, Spock maroons Kirk on a planet/moon apparently in orbit around a planet being consumed by a black hole. What did he thing would happen to that planet? Why not simply throw Kirk in the BRIG? It was a brainless contrivance to further the vapid plot, and one of many.
In orbit aro... what? Delta Vega is not in the Vulcan system. Are you seriously trying to use coincidence as a argument as to how the KT films are against the spirit of 'True Trek TM'. Are you seriously suggesting that?
If Delta Vega wasn't in the Vulcan system, how was old Spock able to watch the destruction of Vulcan from there? For Vulcan to appear in the sky as large as it did in the film, it HAD to be in orbit of Vulcan (or Vulcan was orbitting IT).
I duno. It's been suggested this was a sort of vision thing which would be quite nice piece of Vulcan worldbuilding.
If you look at it closely, the temporal incursion in Abrams Trek does not explain most differences. Abrams Trek does not feel like it's Star Trek at all. The Kelvin alone, a ship supposedly from the prime universe into which the incursion from the prime universe future took place... it should have been a Daedalus class or something, not this monstrosity. The Nerada is equally horrible. Looks like a bad attempt at doing a Shadow vessel from Babylon 5. Certainly not like a Romulan ship.
A Daedalus? I don't think you can count. The Kelvin is a perfect example of a future version of an ENT era ship. All bare metal, turreted weapons, an industrial look, and realistic bridge. And the Nerada ia a Romulan ship with borg bits. Even if you don't accept that bit it's a civilian mining ship. It's not going to look like a military ship is it?
I didn't mind the Kelvin. However, why would they go back to little turrets when they had beam weapons in Enterprise? Otherwise, it was a good looking ship. Nerada, on the other hand was an idiotic design, and no, you don't get to say it's part Borg, because that never appeared in the film. It isn't in the film, you don't get credit for it. A mining ship is a WORKING ship, it's going to be utilitarian. Nerada is decidedly NOT. The interior is as bad, with tiny walkways and no railings, and whatnot.
They didn't go back to them, they went to them. Just earlier. ENT had beams fired from turrets, the Kelvin had pulses fired from turrets, TOS had beams fired from emitters, the TOS films pulses fired from emitters and TNG onwards beams fired from arrays.
The Nerada is a mining ship, it full of space, where else would it fit all the ore? Asteroids are pretty big things you know.
Yeah, I suppose I can see similarities to the phasers from Wrath of Khan. The Nerada was not constructed in any kind of utilitarian way. All those spines on the front of the ship, what were they FOR? I didn't see anything on that ship that suggested it was built to mine.
Grabbing asteroids and tearing them apart at a guess.
No other change in or to the Trek universe has ever been this divisive, no other change has ever been this destructive.
That's cute. Every new series had undergone the same amount of hate.
Not true. They all cause a bit of controversy, but nothing like this.
That's observational bias. You're seeing this first hand on the internet. A system of bitching that just didn't exist back when TMP destroyed TOS, or when TNG destroyed TOS, or when DS9 destroyed TNG, or when VOY destroyed ST in general. Hell, even ENTwas on the fringes of the explosion of the internet, it predates Youtube for goodness sake.
Sure, there's been disagreement, and people who vehemently dislike each of the new series. My own parents have no interest in anything but the TOS. However, I've never seen ANY division of the fanbase as deep as this, and I've been around a while now.
Again, the internet has never been this large or mainstream.
Because they're trying to tell us (as you has in your intro post) that we've go an endgame Connie now - which we don't because that ship does not deserve to be called that.
It's dedication plaque states Constitution Class.
A giant purple bubble with pink wings and a dedication plaque that says Constitution class would also be a Constitution class, but clearly NOT the one we were asking for.
I'd fly one.
With good stats, I'm sure some people would fly anything. However, most of those people are not here for the Star Trek, they're just here for the GAME. It's a subtle distinction.
The ships themselves are despised because of what they represent. Because they're the symbol for all that is wrong with Abrams Trek - which we don't want to see in the game as it constantly reminds us of it.
There's nothing wrong with the KT and the ships least of all.
See everything I said above. Bad writing, bad characterization, ignorance of known science, disregard for the existing canon, disregard for the existing fans, etc.
Oh look, you're describing all of Star Trek. So vague. So general.
No, not really. Sure, there were some contradictions that slipped through the cracks, but they were always careful to be as consistent as they could be, especially by the time of TNG. The science was kept as realistic and accurate as possible. Characters behaved in consistent ways (until Janeway came along, at least). Stories followed logical paths and didn't employ gratuitous plot contrivances (generally).
No, no they really weren't. Seriously, ST is narrative first, since, continuity, logic second. That's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
and thus they've moved away from trying to please Trekkies. That is not the fault of those players who happen to like Abrams Trek, it's the fault of those who decided to put these vessels into the game in the first place.
I can hear the bagpipes of the True Scotsman warming up.
On this point, I can understand them putting them in the game. People did want them. However people ALSO wanted the REAL Star Trek ships. (Oh, and I'm of Scottish heritage)
These are real Star trek ships. Unless you mean the ships of 'True Trek TM'? It's a good job they're in the game then. Not T6 yet, but a TOS Constitution will no doubt be on the cards, it's not the 50th yet.
We're still hoping. As I say, all they really need do is make it a variant for the JJConnie.
This is the reason I asked for a graphics mod in an earlier thread, to allow those of us to have a visual alternative who do not constantly want to be reminded of Abrams Trek through the visuals of the ships, that new uniform pack and (I fear) more stuff to come, without trying to force it on those players who happen to like it.
Really? Do you think we can do that with the TNG visuals as well because some of us really don't want to see the Galaxy at all. I don't see why we should have TNG shoved down out throats in this ST game. Everybody knows TNG is not 'True Star Trek TM'.
Actually, I suggested this when the game launched, a client side mod that would let each player play in the era they want.
Pointless waste of resources.
To YOU. Many of us would think otherwise.
A minority thankfully.
Your formating has me completely and totally confused.
Your formating has me completely and totally confused.
It appears really smart. Nobody else than those that contributed to that intense wall of text can decrypt it anymore. Nobody will ever know who wrote what
I can under the dislike for it being in a lockbox, i got lucky with mine and free zen i get a month. I have both the Jj ships and they are good fun ships.
That's the only problem I have with those 2 ships. ALthough I'm not a fan of the KT universe ( it's not Star Trek period) I do love the ships. I would have bought them off the C-Store but from a lockbox? Not a chance. Or from the exchange? I don't have the time to farm millions of EC. That's the only hate those ships get from me.
I'm one of those "nearing sixty" Original Trek fans and I like these ships!
(physically, not mentally)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
You could say it's a Temporal Ship or whatnot. I mean, people are flying around in Daedaluses, so why not Connies?
I thought the whole premise of Star Trek was "infinite possibilities in infinite combinations". Or did all of you who are screaming, crying and stamping your feet over the KT Constitution forget that? HMMM?
Now as it was brought up on page 2, I'll bring it up here. A ship like this, love it or hate it brings a problem. Tying it to a lockbox when many people do want it is a very frightening trend. I mean tying the Vengeance to a lock-box I get that.
But come on the KT Constitution, should of been in the Zen store.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Yea, tying Vengeance to the lobi store makes sense (and if I did my maths right, it would cost only a bit more than 3000 Zen depending on your luck, but I managed to scrounge up 151 lobi somehow over time, so it costs less for me than to get one of the C-store T6 Temporal ship) but the KT Constitution, D4x and the Romulan carrier? Romulans finally get a carrier... and they have to go to a lockbox to get it.
Also I agree with your statement. While I do not personally like the Alternate Universe Star Trek films (because as standalone films, they are pretty mediocre, and as Star Trek films, they don't really feel very Trek to me- they feel more like a mix between Star Wars and Star Trek), I don't mind the ships being in STO and I don't hate people who love the reboot Star Trek films. Opinions are opinions, one is not more right than another.
But it does remove the possibility of getting more of the sort of thing that 'came before'. The Star Wars EU was hit with the same kind of 'this will never be continued, ever' as the prime universe most likely has. (If the new series doesn't go back to the prime universe, then Kelvin it is, and I can only pray CBS doesn't repeat Abrams' mistakes.)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
have you SEEN the list of writers they hired for the show? even if it is set in the kelvin timeline, with talent like that, it will be the best star trek show ever and the viewers will love it!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yes, the T'laru's placement sucks - especially since it could pass as a prime universe ship with virtually no modification. However, the Connie and D4x have a firm origin in the Kelvin Timeline as craft not designed or built by the playable factions - that means they're in lockbox territory.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Regardless, I would be more optimistic if I heard confirmation that it's set in the prime universe. (Also, remember where that quote of yours originated...)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
True, very much so. Since the KT Connie and D4x were so prominently in the AU films, it does kind of make sense for them to be in a lockbox, but as grand prizes? I don't know. Maybe (since the D4x seems like a pretty decent BOP from just looking at the stats)?
I know right! The EU is gone forever! And they totally got completely RID of Grand Admiral Thrawn even!
Oh wait ... they didn't.
Dude...you don't speak for me. I could care less for a "constitution". IMHO we have plenty of those "old" ships. For me they don't have the updated looks and we already have a bunch of those anyways.
I'm neutral about the Kelvins and if I have a voice...I'd probably would have taken a different path instead of those designs... At least they are "newer" looking than same boring stuff. PWE is growing and tried to appease ALL players...those hardcore and set on older canon stuff and the new hipsters who like the JJ ships. I think there is room for both and why flame others if you use "certain ships".
I rather fly a Borg cube myself rather or what about spliting off these two games into old STO and new STO?
they already considered that for AoY...and immediately rejected it because they didn't want two star trek games competing against each other in their game portfolio
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It wasn't a remake, just like Jurassic World wasn't a remake of Jurassic Park. It's a fresh start that breathes new life into the franchise, while at the same time maintaining everything that has come before. Reboot? Yes, but that's not a bad thing.
The simple facts are the people that make the money decisions saw the response to Enterprise and Nemesis and, instead of listening to the legitimate complaints about certain aspects of the story telling in those, decided fans were just bored with Trek and wanted something new. Executives don't understand the franchise, they understand dollar signs. Could they have made the same money by continuing to make Prime Universe movies? Yes, but there's no way anyone could have convinced them of that. So if it wasn't JJ trek it would have been something very similar, or just no new Trek at all.
Executives, to me, are BEAN COUNTERS, who THINK they got talent. They are also the same folks who, when intelligent shows or films are suggested "WE understand what you are trying to portray, but the audience wont"....such egos. I remember Ralph Bakshi talking about this very topic in one of the commentaries of his films, Wizards, I think it was.
All I see made since 2009 was just flashy "pew pew!" leave your brain at home popcorn flicks like Transformers and the million or so super hero flicks out there.
No, that were Star Trek: First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis. And two seasons of ST: Enterprise.
The pew-pew-stuff was actually used sparingly in ST (2009) - and Into Darkness didn't have that much more of that than TWoK either.
And guess what, most of the masses WANT THAT. Amazing how that works.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
But... that's because the producers and directors that jumped on the train didn't undestand WHY 'The Dark Knight' was so popular. They just saw a popular movie.
The movie was mostly popular because of Heath Ledger, his performance as the Joker, which was even more hyped because of Ledger's death.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Also Batman, unlike most other comics, is supposed to be dark and gritty like that anyway. Dark and gritty doesn't fit a hero like superman nearly as well.
Well, the masses also act like whatever nonsense Kim and Kanye do, or Steve Harvey's boo-boo at Miss Universe, or some fat TRIBBLE woman's chewbacca mask actually matters.
You'd prefer two ships hung from strings a metre from each other with drawn on lasers? I can see why you'd hate excitement.
Strawman. No one ever said that.
Without action sequences, the action becomes stale. 'Mindless' is generally a substitute for exciting when somebody doesn't want to say that. I didn't like the story of 'Nemesis', but I'm not daft enough to pretend it wasn't a spectacle to watch. And I don't even like the choices made in 09. I hated the lense flare, dutch angles, shaky cam, and zoom shoots because it made it so hard to appreciate all the astonishing detail and care that went into the construction of the ships, sets, locations and the whole piece.
Quite. I have no problem with having more action, but it can't be used to obfuscate the lack of a story or the irrational behaviour of the characters. I can't be blinded by shiny explosions and lens flare.
Apparently people can because they ignore the plots and pretend they don't exist building a strawman of the film they can hate.
This did add to what was there before, what came before was ENT. the KT builds on that. It's an alternate timeline.
This is debatable, for some of the reasons I cited before. Part of the issue is that Enterprise was so badly written too.
Still, the KT does not contradict or disrespect anything in ENT. It's completely unrelated to any of the other shows.
Not directly, no. Enterprise was troubled by the same kinds of problems JJ's films are, though. Weak stories, bad characterization, contrived plot elements, etc. Sure, it had its moments (as did Voyager, and as did JJ's films), but it was pretty bad too. You might argue that JJ just followed up on THAT!
It's no better or worse than ENT take that as you will.
Bollocks.
No, it's true. Abrams even said Star Trek fans would hate the movie, that he wasn't a Star Trek fan.
Oh, sorry, I forgot JJ was the only person involved in the film. Starship Class, Delta Vega, Pike, Cardassians, Section 31, the Daystrom Institute, Sulu's sword fighting skills. The films are full of detailed beneath the surface that you ignore because you don't want to know.
Much of what's there references the original material, but it's been distorted. Calling the ship a "Starship" isn't an homage, it's just what it is. Delta Vega wasn't a moon of Vulcan, it was a planet near the EDGE OF THE GALAXY. Pike was a character in TOS, but his personality is totally different in JJTrek. I saw no Cardassians, Section 31 or Daystrom institute references in JJTrek, but I might have missed those. Sulu was a FENCER, not a samurai or ninja; Douglas Fairbanks, not Toshiro Mifune.
Nope, it's a direct homage to the original dedication plaque. Delta Vega isn't a moon of Vulcan in the film, Pike's characterisation is spot on, Cardassian drinks were ordered in 09, the Daystrom institute was bombed in ID, s31 were the main badguys of ID! And Sulu had fencing training, that's the line he says in the film.
Not even slightly
Actually, totally.
[ Citation needed ]
Again, JJ did say he wasn't a fan of Star Trek. Saying he was mean spirited might be a bit much, so I'll give you this one.
Sometimes franchises need creative forces that can take a step back. Contrast with B&B.
Correct. So what's your point? If you understand it's a alternate timeline why are you bothered?
Because its BAD STORYTELLING. Nothing makes sense and the characters act like idiots. I mean, Spock maroons Kirk on a planet/moon apparently in orbit around a planet being consumed by a black hole. What did he thing would happen to that planet? Why not simply throw Kirk in the BRIG? It was a brainless contrivance to further the vapid plot, and one of many.
In orbit aro... what? Delta Vega is not in the Vulcan system. Are you seriously trying to use coincidence as a argument as to how the KT films are against the spirit of 'True Trek TM'. Are you seriously suggesting that?
If Delta Vega wasn't in the Vulcan system, how was old Spock able to watch the destruction of Vulcan from there? For Vulcan to appear in the sky as large as it did in the film, it HAD to be in orbit of Vulcan (or Vulcan was orbitting IT).
I duno. It's been suggested this was a sort of vision thing which would be quite nice piece of Vulcan worldbuilding.
A Daedalus? I don't think you can count. The Kelvin is a perfect example of a future version of an ENT era ship. All bare metal, turreted weapons, an industrial look, and realistic bridge. And the Nerada ia a Romulan ship with borg bits. Even if you don't accept that bit it's a civilian mining ship. It's not going to look like a military ship is it?
I didn't mind the Kelvin. However, why would they go back to little turrets when they had beam weapons in Enterprise? Otherwise, it was a good looking ship. Nerada, on the other hand was an idiotic design, and no, you don't get to say it's part Borg, because that never appeared in the film. It isn't in the film, you don't get credit for it. A mining ship is a WORKING ship, it's going to be utilitarian. Nerada is decidedly NOT. The interior is as bad, with tiny walkways and no railings, and whatnot.
They didn't go back to them, they went to them. Just earlier. ENT had beams fired from turrets, the Kelvin had pulses fired from turrets, TOS had beams fired from emitters, the TOS films pulses fired from emitters and TNG onwards beams fired from arrays.
The Nerada is a mining ship, it full of space, where else would it fit all the ore? Asteroids are pretty big things you know.
Yeah, I suppose I can see similarities to the phasers from Wrath of Khan. The Nerada was not constructed in any kind of utilitarian way. All those spines on the front of the ship, what were they FOR? I didn't see anything on that ship that suggested it was built to mine.
Grabbing asteroids and tearing them apart at a guess.
That's cute. Every new series had undergone the same amount of hate.
Not true. They all cause a bit of controversy, but nothing like this.
That's observational bias. You're seeing this first hand on the internet. A system of bitching that just didn't exist back when TMP destroyed TOS, or when TNG destroyed TOS, or when DS9 destroyed TNG, or when VOY destroyed ST in general. Hell, even ENTwas on the fringes of the explosion of the internet, it predates Youtube for goodness sake.
Sure, there's been disagreement, and people who vehemently dislike each of the new series. My own parents have no interest in anything but the TOS. However, I've never seen ANY division of the fanbase as deep as this, and I've been around a while now.
Again, the internet has never been this large or mainstream.
That's true.
Alternate Timeline, they don't replace anything.
They replace the ship(s) the fans have been asking for for YEARS.
No it doesn't, it's a different ship.
Yes, yes it does. We wanted the TOS Constitution, they gave us something else. They replaced what we wanted with something else.
No. You haven't got your TOS Conni yet. The KT one isn't replacing anything.
It's dedication plaque states Constitution Class.
A giant purple bubble with pink wings and a dedication plaque that says Constitution class would also be a Constitution class, but clearly NOT the one we were asking for.
I'd fly one.
With good stats, I'm sure some people would fly anything. However, most of those people are not here for the Star Trek, they're just here for the GAME. It's a subtle distinction.
There's nothing wrong with the KT and the ships least of all.
See everything I said above. Bad writing, bad characterization, ignorance of known science, disregard for the existing canon, disregard for the existing fans, etc.
Oh look, you're describing all of Star Trek. So vague. So general.
No, not really. Sure, there were some contradictions that slipped through the cracks, but they were always careful to be as consistent as they could be, especially by the time of TNG. The science was kept as realistic and accurate as possible. Characters behaved in consistent ways (until Janeway came along, at least). Stories followed logical paths and didn't employ gratuitous plot contrivances (generally).
No, no they really weren't. Seriously, ST is narrative first, since, continuity, logic second. That's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.
I can hear the bagpipes of the True Scotsman warming up.
On this point, I can understand them putting them in the game. People did want them. However people ALSO wanted the REAL Star Trek ships. (Oh, and I'm of Scottish heritage)
These are real Star trek ships. Unless you mean the ships of 'True Trek TM'? It's a good job they're in the game then. Not T6 yet, but a TOS Constitution will no doubt be on the cards, it's not the 50th yet.
We're still hoping. As I say, all they really need do is make it a variant for the JJConnie.
Really? Do you think we can do that with the TNG visuals as well because some of us really don't want to see the Galaxy at all. I don't see why we should have TNG shoved down out throats in this ST game. Everybody knows TNG is not 'True Star Trek TM'.
Actually, I suggested this when the game launched, a client side mod that would let each player play in the era they want.
Pointless waste of resources.
To YOU. Many of us would think otherwise.
A minority thankfully.
[/quote]
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I assume that 70% of the hate-intensity towards KT-ships stems from that people have no luck getting one single Connie.
Anyway, having them as lockbox ships is just fine by me, but if they're not faction ships why are they faction restricted?
And I'm still sad they didn't give us Narada.
the fek'irhi carrier predates lockboxes...but yeah, i'm surprised the dauntless made it into the c-store when the temporal science vessel didn't
the wells may have been from the far future, but at least it was a federation ship unlike the dauntless
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Your formating has me completely and totally confused.
It appears really smart. Nobody else than those that contributed to that intense wall of text can decrypt it anymore. Nobody will ever know who wrote what
That's the only problem I have with those 2 ships. ALthough I'm not a fan of the KT universe ( it's not Star Trek period) I do love the ships. I would have bought them off the C-Store but from a lockbox? Not a chance. Or from the exchange? I don't have the time to farm millions of EC. That's the only hate those ships get from me.
(physically, not mentally)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion