God i'm so sick of all the whining about who's Trek is the proper Trek and expecting Cryptic to waste money on "opt-out" mechanisms for people who hate is so much their eyes bleed if they see a Kelvin ship.
I mean come on guys, without Abrams version of Trek the franchise was as good as dead. Enterprise got cancelled, Nemesis was hated by a large number of fans and outsiders...this game would not exist without the rebooted Trek films getting the franchise some attention.
I'm grateful for the Kelvin films because it's more Trek, and i'm glad it's been integrated (really well actually) into the game.
Well you are off base with the game being around due to the 2009 film. Devlopment of STO started in 2004 by Perpetaul entertainment then was acquired by Cryptic in 2008 with a website launch on July 28 2008 a full year ahead of the first JJ film. The release of the game was in 2010 on Jnauary 29 to players who had pre-bought the game. So I feel that the buzz for the game was more the cause of the interest in the JJ film.
Regarding the KT ship introduction, I'm more concerned about the precedent of tying Faction Ships behind Lockboxes instead of the cheap, traditional "Mirror Box" equivalent or the C-Store. I'm not exactly fond of JJ Trek, but this precedent is more worrying.
This doesn't set a new precedent, it follows the precedent you yourself pointed out. The Mirror Universe is an alternate reality. The Kelvin Timeline is an alternate reality. The KT ships aren't faction ships any more than Terran Empire ships are faction ships. The only difference with this lockbox is that the alternate reality ships were the grand prize, not a consolation prize.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
But it isn't false advertising. CBS and Paramount say it is a Constitution Class. SO guess what? its a Constitution Class
It's just not the Constitution Class we are used to or would love to have at T6
Again freaking Hollywood saying what's canon is wrong and they really don't give a dam about Trek as long as they can make money from it. It should bother every real Trek fan that Hollywood has a say about what's canon.
We do not have an endgame Constitution. We have a ship that from some angles looks remotely like a Constitution but which completely falls through upon closer inspection.
I'm going to take the other path of extremity here just for fun.
We're currently in Earth 1. You all are living on Earth 2, enjoying the golden age and the past. Which is cool and all, but we're in the right now. The Enterprise that is commanded by Captain Kirk in 2016 is the one that is on the big screen and will get blown up in movie theaters across the country this week. It's the Kelvin timeline. It's the here and now.
It's the Enterprise. And it's what we've got.
And much like Scotty in the first film, those of us in STO can now get our hands on her ample nacelles.
So while you're hanging out with Johnny Thunder over a nice Turkey dinner at some hotel talking about past capers with the rest of your Justice Society ... the Justice League over here on Earth One is having new adventures and moving the story forward!
First off if not for 50 years of fandom the JJ/KT films never would have been made and that is reality like it or not. The TOS (inclusive of the follow on series) universe has been around 50 years inspiring at least two generations to strive to make things better and develop technolgy that went from being fantasy to reality while the JJ/KT universe is a bunch of brash wet behind the ears snot nosed kids who think they are the end all be all. Come back in 50 years and then start bragging.
I'm sorry. I couldn't hear your point over the rehashed anti-TNG argument you were using from the 70s.
Post edited by artan42 on
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
And we now have the JJtrek fans acting like the trollish jerks they accuse the Non JJtrek fans of. *slow clap*
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Most individual works within Star Trek are terrible. DS9 is the only one of the TV shows which most of the episodes are worth rewatching repeatedly.
I don't see why people pick this particular pair of Trek works to come down on. Yes, the thing with Khan's blood is stupid, but so's all of Star Trek V. So's a member of the Enterprise crew referencing "human rights" in The Undiscovered Country (one of the overall three best Trek films) as a setup to getting shot down by a Klingon. And Into Darkness gave us wonderful bits like that first, glorious shot of the Vengeance and the whole way Cummberkhan MOVES (that's how augments SHOULD move - with utter certainty at every moment, and just a little faster than seems natural). The 2009 film gave us Sulu's foldy sword and the wonderful bit with Spock and Kirk and Nero at the end where Kirk offers help to Nero.
Descending into absurdity at odd moments is part and parcel to what Star Trek IS. Did people forget that DS9 burned an episode of lead-in to the conclusion of the Dominion War plot on baseball with Vulcans? And it was wonderful?
If it wasn't for JJ Trek we most likely wouldn't be getting a new series. Not sure why the new trek gets so much hate, its Star Trek whether you like it or not. Casting was spot on, first movie was pretty good, second one wasn't, third looks good. Let's face it, the old movies and series had good and bad littered all through it. You don't have to like it but if you dismiss it outright you're not a Star Trek fan.
But it isn't false advertising. CBS and Paramount say it is a Constitution Class. SO guess what? its a Constitution Class
It's just not the Constitution Class we are used to or would love to have at T6
Again freaking Hollywood saying what's canon is wrong and they really don't give a dam about Trek as long as they can make money from it. It should bother every real Trek fan that Hollywood has a say about what's canon.
Personal opinion is personal.
Please keep repeating the "No True Scottsman" fallacy about "real" Star Trek fans. It is very original, I've never heard it before, and I would like to hear more about it.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
We do not have an endgame Constitution. We have a ship that from some angles looks remotely like a Constitution but which completely falls through upon closer inspection.
I'm going to take the other path of extremity here just for fun.
We're currently in Earth 1. You all are living on Earth 2, enjoying the golden age and the past. Which is cool and all, but we're in the right now. The Enterprise that is commanded by Captain Kirk in 2016 is the one that is on the big screen and will get blown up in movie theaters across the country this week. It's the Kelvin timeline. It's the here and now.
It's the Enterprise. And it's what we've got.
And much like Scotty in the first film, those of us in STO can now get our hands on her ample nacelles.
So while you're hanging out with Johnny Thunder over a nice Turkey dinner at some hotel talking about past capers with the rest of your Justice Society ... the Justice League over here on Earth One is having new adventures and moving the story forward!
First off if not for 50 years of fandom the JJ/KT films never would have been made and that is reality like it or not. The TOS (inclusive of the follow on series) universe has been around 50 years inspiring at least two generations to strive to make things better and develop technolgy that went from being fantasy to reality while the JJ/KT universe is a bunch of brash wet behind the ears snot nosed kids who think they are the end all be all. Come back in 50 years and then start bragging.
I'm sorry. I couldn't hear your point of the rehashed anti-TNG argument you were using from the 70s.
^^^
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
God i'm so sick of all the whining about who's Trek is the proper Trek and expecting Cryptic to waste money on "opt-out" mechanisms for people who hate is so much their eyes bleed if they see a Kelvin ship.
I mean come on guys, without Abrams version of Trek the franchise was as good as dead. Enterprise got cancelled, Nemesis was hated by a large number of fans and outsiders...this game would not exist without the rebooted Trek films getting the franchise some attention.
I'm grateful for the Kelvin films because it's more Trek, and i'm glad it's been integrated (really well actually) into the game.
Well you are off base with the game being around due to the 2009 film. Devlopment of STO started in 2004 by Perpetaul entertainment then was acquired by Cryptic in 2008 with a website launch on July 28 2008 a full year ahead of the first JJ film. The release of the game was in 2010 on Jnauary 29 to players who had pre-bought the game. So I feel that the buzz for the game was more the cause of the interest in the JJ film.
I disagree with that assessment of yours. This game didn't cause interest in the films.
Most individual works within Star Trek are terrible. DS9 is the only one of the TV shows which most of the episodes are worth rewatching repeatedly.
I don't see why people pick this particular pair of Trek works to come down on. Yes, the thing with Khan's blood is stupid, but so's all of Star Trek V. So's a member of the Enterprise crew referencing "human rights" in The Undiscovered Country (one of the overall three best Trek films) as a setup to getting shot down by a Klingon. And Into Darkness gave us wonderful bits like that first, glorious shot of the Vengeance and the whole way Cummberkhan MOVES (that's how augments SHOULD move - with utter certainty at every moment, and just a little faster than seems natural). The 2009 film gave us Sulu's foldy sword and the wonderful bit with Spock and Kirk and Nero at the end where Kirk offers help to Nero.
Descending into absurdity at odd moments is part and parcel to what Star Trek IS. Did people forget that DS9 burned an episode of lead-in to the conclusion of the Dominion War plot on baseball with Vulcans? And it was wonderful?
Yeah Star Trek is filled with all sorts of weird episodes. TNG started the "negative space wedgie" trope with something like 2 or more eps each season being some random disaster that doesn't logically make sense. The Ent-D being immobilized by 2-dimensional life forms the size of amoebas? The weird-not-a-wormhole that singled out Picard as the focus of it's attention? (the behind the scenes on that was that it was originally written as a Q episode, then they erased Q to prevent overuse and made it anyways.)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
From what I've seen of the people who hate the Abramsverse movies they are the same sort of "everything old is better" people that I remember from back in the 80's who spewed similar hatred of TNG when it first aired.
Of course it's not just the new Trek movies that get such hatred I see the same thing said about gaming as well, people looking at new games and saying that they're worse than older games back in the days of the NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, Atari, Odyssey, and others. Believing that was some golden age of gaming, most of the people I have those conversations with aren't old enough to have had to grow up with those systems. For every gem on those older systems there were a dozen steaming piles of filth that make the worst games of today look like masterpieces.
So It's just the same kind of hipster edgelords that have always been around who must hate everything and anything that is new.
Not all of us. I took the change from the TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. However JJ Trek is not what I like. As to me it made a Mockery out of Star Trek.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Trek fandom is A-OK. The internet is probably not the healthiest repository of Trek fandom that's all. But go to a convention or two and you meet a lot of people who are just happy to be sharing the common interest.
And it isn't hate for the JJ verse ships. Its that all this time asking for end game TOS Constitution, and this is what they come up with. Something that really isn't even though it claims to be.
And to top it of, they attach the next must have traits and equipment on them as well.
Some people need to just accept that it's always going to be like this in Star Trek. It always has been and it always will be.
When TNG came out, people were angry. They didn't feel that it properly honored the 'real Star Trek' that was Kirk and his crew. Same thing happened when TNG crew decided to start making movies.
People complained when Voyager started because it wasn't centered around the Enterprise and therefore wasn't 'real Star Trek.'
People complained about Deep Space Nine for the same reason and many others that they came up with.
People didn't think that Enterprise should be done, they felt that Kirk was the beginning of the story.. blah blah blah.
And now here we are with the Kelvin Timeline movies. Same thing, different year.
The nice thing about the Star Trek franchises is that if you don't like one, you can just not watch it. There is some light crossover between TNG/DS9/Voyager in one or two episodes, but for the most part, they're completely separate and self contained series. If you don't like one, you just don't watch it. Personally, I have found that if I give each one a chance and watch them as stand alone series without the bias of comparison between them, they all have their merits and I actually enjoy them all.
Yes, I like all the Star Trek series.. all of them. But if I didn't like one, I just wouldn't watch it. I wouldn't want other people telling me which series I can or can't like and wouldn't try and do it to others either. They all have their own merit.
There's always gotta be some players pooping on other players fun. I personally am not a huge fan of the jjprize, but that doesn't mean I don't want other players, who might love the ship, not to have it. I understand that a portion of the players really want a tos constitution class at end game and I do sympathize because there isn't one. That's still not a reason to be an TRIBBLE to the players that like the jjprize.
Regarding the KT ship introduction, I'm more concerned about the precedent of tying Faction Ships behind Lockboxes instead of the cheap, traditional "Mirror Box" equivalent or the C-Store. I'm not exactly fond of JJ Trek, but this precedent is more worrying.
They knew the KU fans will eat it up. So they smelled profit in the wind.
Another thing, the KU ships are not Faction ships. They are no different than any regular lock box ship. As they are not part of the Prime Universe. As where STO is based off.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
TOS Constitution class end game is pretty much still not happening from the last I heard. That is something CBS does not want, has never wanted, and will most likely never allow. People have asked, I'm sure Cryptic has asked and in 6 years that answer has never changed so don't expect it to ever change.
As for the KT Constitution class (and yes, it is a constitution class like it or not as that's canon) it makes sense. They made in that new time line some serious heavy duty ships. Now with the new series under way, the fact it's the 50th anniversary, and the new movie coming out shortly I'm assuming someone thought it'd be BRILLIANT to tie it all in and give players at least something related. In comes the Kelvin timeline. Personally to me I like it. It's brought me back for the past week playing with my husband and we're enjoying the temporal time line, getting some marks, finding our old friends that have come back etc.
Do I LIKE the KT constitution class? Meh. The design has grown on me. Would I like a TOS end game constitution class? Nope. Always been that way and will continue to be. But that's my opinion.
Now debate nicely folks or I'll be forced to play moderator instead of playing in game which will annoy me
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I posed this question in another, similarly themed thread, but did not get an answer. Should I update my signature? I can't decide myself. Honest question.
I don't think most of the TOS people are the one's with the JJ hate as he chose TOS to emulate. I'm thinking it's some members of the TNG crowd that might be doing the hating as TNG was way different than both.
Also I remember one of the main arguments against an endgame Connie was because it would look outdated flying among the TNG Era ships. Now we have a futuristic version that fits.
I would fit that "hipster" description, but like the new movies in how they celebrate TOS while bringing in new fans.
I got both JJ ships, Cryptic did an outstanding job on them. My only complaint is that I can only fly one at a time.
I mean, if it weren't for that Intel Dreadnought I wouldn't care about the Kelvin lockbox stuff. Just another thing trying to grab money, I would have said, especially since I don't particularly like the reboot franchise. I mean, it is rebooting a franchise based in series of episodes into just films... and Abrams made the reboot a little too much like Star Wars for my taste. Abrams is much better suited for Star Wars than Star Trek (and I also don't particularly like the films as just films either... but that is just my view)
But that Intel Dreadnought is there, with amazing stats, and I'm thinking "Hmn, that might be a good endgame ship for my Temporal Agent guy, it's unique, and it seems like it has a good blend of Intel and Temporal (since I think a Temporal ship would probably have extensive intelligence suites or stuff)". But it costs so much Lobi... and now I hear people won't even do STFs with you if you have the Intel Dreadnought that may be why I haven't encountered any so far in the new STF missions when I do them on my other characters...
Comments
Well you are off base with the game being around due to the 2009 film. Devlopment of STO started in 2004 by Perpetaul entertainment then was acquired by Cryptic in 2008 with a website launch on July 28 2008 a full year ahead of the first JJ film. The release of the game was in 2010 on Jnauary 29 to players who had pre-bought the game. So I feel that the buzz for the game was more the cause of the interest in the JJ film.
This doesn't set a new precedent, it follows the precedent you yourself pointed out. The Mirror Universe is an alternate reality. The Kelvin Timeline is an alternate reality. The KT ships aren't faction ships any more than Terran Empire ships are faction ships. The only difference with this lockbox is that the alternate reality ships were the grand prize, not a consolation prize.
It's just not the Constitution Class we are used to or would love to have at T6
Again freaking Hollywood saying what's canon is wrong and they really don't give a dam about Trek as long as they can make money from it. It should bother every real Trek fan that Hollywood has a say about what's canon.
I'm sorry. I couldn't hear your point over the rehashed anti-TNG argument you were using from the 70s.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Most individual works within Star Trek are terrible. DS9 is the only one of the TV shows which most of the episodes are worth rewatching repeatedly.
I don't see why people pick this particular pair of Trek works to come down on. Yes, the thing with Khan's blood is stupid, but so's all of Star Trek V. So's a member of the Enterprise crew referencing "human rights" in The Undiscovered Country (one of the overall three best Trek films) as a setup to getting shot down by a Klingon. And Into Darkness gave us wonderful bits like that first, glorious shot of the Vengeance and the whole way Cummberkhan MOVES (that's how augments SHOULD move - with utter certainty at every moment, and just a little faster than seems natural). The 2009 film gave us Sulu's foldy sword and the wonderful bit with Spock and Kirk and Nero at the end where Kirk offers help to Nero.
Descending into absurdity at odd moments is part and parcel to what Star Trek IS. Did people forget that DS9 burned an episode of lead-in to the conclusion of the Dominion War plot on baseball with Vulcans? And it was wonderful?
Personal opinion is personal.
Please keep repeating the "No True Scottsman" fallacy about "real" Star Trek fans. It is very original, I've never heard it before, and I would like to hear more about it.
^^^
I disagree with that assessment of yours. This game didn't cause interest in the films.
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Not all of us. I took the change from the TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. However JJ Trek is not what I like. As to me it made a Mockery out of Star Trek.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And it isn't hate for the JJ verse ships. Its that all this time asking for end game TOS Constitution, and this is what they come up with. Something that really isn't even though it claims to be.
And to top it of, they attach the next must have traits and equipment on them as well.
When TNG came out, people were angry. They didn't feel that it properly honored the 'real Star Trek' that was Kirk and his crew. Same thing happened when TNG crew decided to start making movies.
People complained when Voyager started because it wasn't centered around the Enterprise and therefore wasn't 'real Star Trek.'
People complained about Deep Space Nine for the same reason and many others that they came up with.
People didn't think that Enterprise should be done, they felt that Kirk was the beginning of the story.. blah blah blah.
And now here we are with the Kelvin Timeline movies. Same thing, different year.
The nice thing about the Star Trek franchises is that if you don't like one, you can just not watch it. There is some light crossover between TNG/DS9/Voyager in one or two episodes, but for the most part, they're completely separate and self contained series. If you don't like one, you just don't watch it. Personally, I have found that if I give each one a chance and watch them as stand alone series without the bias of comparison between them, they all have their merits and I actually enjoy them all.
Yes, I like all the Star Trek series.. all of them. But if I didn't like one, I just wouldn't watch it. I wouldn't want other people telling me which series I can or can't like and wouldn't try and do it to others either. They all have their own merit.
They knew the KU fans will eat it up. So they smelled profit in the wind.
Another thing, the KU ships are not Faction ships. They are no different than any regular lock box ship. As they are not part of the Prime Universe. As where STO is based off.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My character Tsin'xing
I remember this one, it was one of those. lol
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
TOS Constitution class end game is pretty much still not happening from the last I heard. That is something CBS does not want, has never wanted, and will most likely never allow. People have asked, I'm sure Cryptic has asked and in 6 years that answer has never changed so don't expect it to ever change.
As for the KT Constitution class (and yes, it is a constitution class like it or not as that's canon) it makes sense. They made in that new time line some serious heavy duty ships. Now with the new series under way, the fact it's the 50th anniversary, and the new movie coming out shortly I'm assuming someone thought it'd be BRILLIANT to tie it all in and give players at least something related. In comes the Kelvin timeline. Personally to me I like it. It's brought me back for the past week playing with my husband and we're enjoying the temporal time line, getting some marks, finding our old friends that have come back etc.
Do I LIKE the KT constitution class? Meh. The design has grown on me. Would I like a TOS end game constitution class? Nope. Always been that way and will continue to be. But that's my opinion.
Now debate nicely folks or I'll be forced to play moderator instead of playing in game which will annoy me
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Also I remember one of the main arguments against an endgame Connie was because it would look outdated flying among the TNG Era ships. Now we have a futuristic version that fits.
I would fit that "hipster" description, but like the new movies in how they celebrate TOS while bringing in new fans.
I got both JJ ships, Cryptic did an outstanding job on them. My only complaint is that I can only fly one at a time.
But that Intel Dreadnought is there, with amazing stats, and I'm thinking "Hmn, that might be a good endgame ship for my Temporal Agent guy, it's unique, and it seems like it has a good blend of Intel and Temporal (since I think a Temporal ship would probably have extensive intelligence suites or stuff)". But it costs so much Lobi... and now I hear people won't even do STFs with you if you have the Intel Dreadnought