When I read this thread I can’t help but shake my head. In case some are new or have forgotten I bring up events we had less than 2 years ago when peeps also moaned of the easiness of this game.
-> solid puplic queue participation until October the 14th. 2014
-> Delta Rising Release with twice (advanced) and three times (elite) the difficulty of the previously available contend
-> Mass exodus of players into DPS channels just in order to be able to conclude pve successfully (so to play basically)
[...]
So, you would rather propose to make the queues easier?
What I suggest is that changes to the game should not be made just because a bunch of peeps who let themselves be carried through endgame contend find the role of a spectator to be too easy.
When I get 1st place in cca playing a full aggro tank in a pug I felt challenged.
If I can, so can they.
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Every person is different. What i find easy someone else will find hard and vice versa. Is the game to easy ?. For me i'd say yes. For others that i have pugged with no. Lost count how many times i've pugged KSA and seen someone spawn the Cube and Sphere above a generator, die, and then run to my side because they can't deal with what they unleashed and leave it to roam the map for me to mop up.
The question for this thread should be, "should there be more challenging end game content beyond advanced" ? which i'd have to say yes to and it shouldn't just be more hit points and shields,
You make it sound like everyone using FaW as a tac is hitting 200k. Like its no big deal, and any idiot can slap on beams and FaW and do crazy numbers.
There's like 3 people who can pull off 200k+
And those that do are running in premade groups, where they try to get one person's dps as high as possible.
There might be 300-350 players on the dps boards who are +75k. Maybe 50 that are 100k+. And like 3 that are hitting 200k (in premades)
If the boards are any indication, the average dps is probably around 20-30k dps.
We need facts, not exaggeration.
The fact remains that it is a certain demographic that is getting these high numbers, and some of those are fostering a rather toxic attitude towards "underperforming" individuals.
I personally have no problem with the DPS crowd at large. I have an issue with those who bash players for not believing in the almighty DPS like they do.
I was under this impression as well for a while. You know, DPSer are all elitists and such. After becoming a DPSer myself and getting to know quiet a few I must say this is not the case in general. A game environment where the content is so hard that DPSer have to stick to their own tends to generate elitist attitudes. A game environment that is just fine for DPSer to cope with no matter what team they are in does not.
At the current state of advanced maps I’m literally happy for every bad player I end up with since they bring the difficulty setting to a level where I get a good fight out of it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I was under this impression as well for a while. You know, DPSer are all elitists and such. After becoming a DPSer myself and getting to know quiet a few I must say this is not the case in general.
Agreed completely.
People that think the DPS leagues foster hostility are on another planet. When I was looking to get better at this game, I got a lot of great advice from DPS people and they were always happy to share their knowledge. It would be elitist if they horded the knowledge and only shared with those in their 'club' but that's not the case. The DPS guys freely share all their 'tricks' to anyone that simply asks.
Honestly, I have seen more hostility going toward DPS'ers then coming from DPS'ers.
Now I am not a high DPS-er (only manage to do around 50k in a few toons).
However, claiming "high DPS-er are toxic"...I don't agree at all. There are quite a few of them taking time to answer questions about mechanics, even putting up tutorial videos and homepages.
On the other hand - if you doing about 5k DPS and being in an advanced PvE, maybe not even know where to go in that Mission - then you (rightly) promt a reaction.
Personally I set the mark at 10k DPS before I consider joining in an advanced queue. Because if everybody does less damage, the Mission WILL fail. And it is frustrating if you have a "doing all right" toon and you fail because People think they are better than they are. If you are not good enough for advanced queues, do normal ones.
And the mark I wrote - 10k dps - you can even do that using White Mark X gear if you know the game a bit. And if you either don't know the game or don't have decent gear...you shouldn't be in advanced or elite missions.
Imagine you do drive a car either before you have a driving licence or if you don't follow the rules- you'll get abused as well.
So basically: if you receive a lot of abuse in PvEs, you are doing it wrong. Then check out Videos, read the STO wiki and rethink your build.
with daily Bonus you can get through the Reputation System doing one normal mark Thing per day anyway. And with Reputation traits jeeeeez - just use fire at will and you'll do more than 10k or more
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Honestly, I have seen more hostility going toward DPS'ers then coming from DPS'ers.
Quoted for truth! The anti-DPS'er crowd are elitists in their own right. Note I said anti-DPS'er, not anti-DPS, those are two different things. One is against DPS in general (which is fine), the other is against those that try to up their DPS (DPS'ers).
Why are we suddenly talking about some groups of players, instead of the state of the game?
I think they are related to the state of the game too and the team composition greatly influences whether the run will be too easy or too hard in grouped content.
Why are we suddenly talking about some groups of players, instead of the state of the game?
The state of the game atm? I like it just fine.
Was bad for me after DR when I suddenly felt forced by the content to seek players equally good as me to do maps I already mastered for years. I had to select the right teams and, what was worst, had to tell friends and fleet mates that they could not join me because they were not good enough. Today I only need to do so on a handful of elite mission where a certain level of skill is required. And even there my friends and I get more and more into a position where we can pull freshmen through.
For the rest of the maps I can simply team-up with everybody and play undisturbed without being annoyed. Sometimes I get a challange, sometimes I fail, but most of the time I get fun and rewarding experience out of it. And that with substantial team contribution on my part.
It’s the perfect, fertile ground the queues had before the last expansion and I strongly think that, besides a few sto forums whiners, more and more players of this game will see it again and make greater use of the queued team contend.
It's the only endgame contend we have.
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Note I said anti-DPS'er, not anti-DPS, those are two different things. One is against DPS in general (which is fine), the other is against those that try to up their DPS (DPS'ers).
Very good point, and a very important distinction. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to chase DPS (just like there is nothing wrong with chasing DPS.) It's the attacking of players that play 'differently' that needs to stop. Everyone is entitled to play the game in a way that's fun for them.
See I actually fall on both sides of that equation (DPS chaser / Non DPS chaser) based on my Ship. My Annorax (and before that was my R'Mor) is my DPS ship and I am constantly trying new weapons, skills, strategies, and varying my piloting to maximize it's DPS as a Science Captain in a Science Vessel using Science Skills. However my other ships fall.into the Gimmick or Alternate builds category and my Paradox is all about the Temporal skills and my Voth Palisade is a DrainX Monster. Point is they are all effective and I have fun with each of them however when I use my DPS Annorax I do get the occasional rude pm from a guy saying I "ruined his fun and need to play on elite content" when the fact of the matter is very very few players even play elite (even in the dps channels) because they are a chore with rewards that aren't worth the effort. If you can run 3 Advanced STFs in 20 minutes for 720 dilithium each plus the mark trade in or do a Elite Queue in 15 minutes for 1280 (idr exact numbers ) which would you do?
See I actually fall on both sides of that equation (DPS chaser / Non DPS chaser) based on my Ship. My Annorax (and before that was my R'Mor) is my DPS ship and I am constantly trying new weapons, skills, strategies, and varying my piloting to maximize it's DPS as a Science Captain in a Science Vessel using Science Skills. However my other ships fall.into the Gimmick or Alternate builds category and my Paradox is all about the Temporal skills and my Voth Palisade is a DrainX Monster.
Point is they are all effective and I have fun with each of them however when I use my DPS Annorax I do get the occasional rude pm from a guy saying I "ruined his fun and need to play on elite content" when the fact of the matter is very very few players even play elite (even in the dps channels) because they are a chore with rewards that aren't worth the effort. If you can run 3 Advanced STFs in 20 minutes for 720 dilithium each plus the mark trade in or do a Elite Queue in 15 minutes for 1280 (idr exact numbers ) which would you do?
Nice post and quiet accurate.
A bit of an off-topic question. You mention the Annorax for your sci and I noticed that it is considered a desirable ship to get by a lot of people. I currently use the Paradox I happen to like. What kind of improvement would the Annorax offer?
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Specifically the Intel powers make it more powerful and dangerous. Plus the fact that the ship itself is soo versatile it can literally do almost anything you need (5 Science Consoles and 4 tactical make it desirable as well) but I did a thread about the best Science ships a while back mentioning that if the Annorax is the best Science Ship the Paradox is definitely in the #2 slot.
Sorry for going off topic but just wanted to answer ya
Why are we suddenly talking about some groups of players, instead of the state of the game?
The state of the game atm? I like it just fine.
[...]
Now that is a debate that makes sense.
Whining about people not doing enough dps or not beeing friendly enough, or defending people from other people from supposedly false accusations of not being friendly enough seem pointless, though.
Game environments that enable 1-2 good players to carry stages designed to be concluded by teams of 5 or even 10 players negates the need to moan over the low performance of others. Every single player in game has the option, but not the requirement, to become as good.
A state where a full team of good players is required to conclude an advanced map however is problematic because underperforming players can easily lead to annoying game experiences then. The consequence is a separated community because good players tend to stick together simply excluding the bad ones from play.
Over the duration of the past 2 years we had both situations in this game. I like the first one a lot better and that is the reason why I criticize most of your forum posts. Your ambitions to make good players less good will simply lead to situation two again.
I have nine characters by now that can dish out 75k+ DPS! One even over twice as much. I rather use them to pull every newbe in fleet (and even in game) through than to play exclusively in DPS Diamond. I get a good match out of it and they get a chance to play. It’s a fair deal I can easily offer under current conditions but not if I'm annoyed.
This is the first CC event in over 2 years where I count 300+ players on advanced and 50+ ones in normal. It’s almost 50% of the numbers we got a few years ago when CC was brand new. Peeps simply pug and finally don’t hide in DPS channels anymore.
It is my opinion that the recent power tsunami has a healthy influence on the endgame situation and encourages players to play together despite their respective in game standings and back grounds.
It’s a good thing.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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Now I am not a high DPS-er (only manage to do around 50k in a few toons).
However, claiming "high DPS-er are toxic"...I don't agree at all. There are quite a few of them taking time to answer questions about mechanics, even putting up tutorial videos and homepages.
On the other hand - if you doing about 5k DPS and being in an advanced PvE, maybe not even know where to go in that Mission - then you (rightly) promt a reaction.
Personally I set the mark at 10k DPS before I consider joining in an advanced queue. Because if everybody does less damage, the Mission WILL fail. And it is frustrating if you have a "doing all right" toon and you fail because People think they are better than they are. If you are not good enough for advanced queues, do normal ones.
And the mark I wrote - 10k dps - you can even do that using White Mark X gear if you know the game a bit. And if you either don't know the game or don't have decent gear...you shouldn't be in advanced or elite missions.
Imagine you do drive a car either before you have a driving licence or if you don't follow the rules- you'll get abused as well.
People think they're better than they are, because the game doesn't tell them otherwise. No DPS meters, no instructions, no unlock conditions...even when a queue fails the game doesn't actually come out and say YOU LOSE, much less explain why, it just gives you a consolation prize and a leave map button, just as if you had won. Inexperienced players simply have no means to gauge their own performance.
And it usually is the "doing all right" people who complain about underperforming teammates, not the high-DPSers. Because why get all worked up about your teammates' performance if you can complete the mission by yourself anyway? I certainly don't.
The driver's licence analogy is good. Players should be instructed and tested before unlocking advanced content.
Game environments that enable 1-2 good players to carry stages designed to be concluded by teams of 5 or even 10 players negates the need to moan over the low performance of others. Every single player in game has the option, but not the requirement, to become as good.
A state where a full team of good players is required to conclude an advanced map however is problematic because underperforming players can easily lead to annoying game experiences then. The consequence is a separated community because good players tend to stick together simply excluding the bad ones from play.
Over the duration of the past 2 years we had both situations in this game. I like the first one a lot better and that is the reason why I criticize most of your forum posts. Your ambitions to make good players less good will simply lead to situation two again.
I have nine characters by now that can dish out 75k+ DPS! One even over twice as much. I rather use them to pull every newbe in fleet (and even in game) through than to play exclusively in DPS Diamond. I get a good match out of it and they get a chance to play. It’s a fair deal I can easily offer under current conditions but not if I'm annoyed.
This is the first CC event in over 2 years where I count 300+ players on advanced and 50+ ones in normal. It’s almost 50% of the numbers we got a few years ago when CC was brand new. Peeps simply pug and finally don’t hide in DPS channels anymore.
It is my opinion that the recent power tsunami has a healthy influence on the endgame situation and encourages players to play together despite their respective in game standings and back grounds.
It’s a good thing.
If you could see me right now, you would see a man giving you a standing ovation.
Seriously, you #$%^ing nailed it.. absolutely spot on, every word.
It was a rare pleasure to read something this well thought out and articulately explained.
I was under this impression as well for a while. You know, DPSer are all elitists and such. After becoming a DPSer myself and getting to know quiet a few I must say this is not the case in general.
Agreed completely.
People that think the DPS leagues foster hostility are on another planet. When I was looking to get better at this game, I got a lot of great advice from DPS people and they were always happy to share their knowledge. It would be elitist if they horded the knowledge and only shared with those in their 'club' but that's not the case. The DPS guys freely share all their 'tricks' to anyone that simply asks.
Honestly, I have seen more hostility going toward DPS'ers then coming from DPS'ers.
You will find that most of the people that have the bad attitude can't be found in the DPS channels, they tend to turn up in pugs mostly.
Why are we suddenly talking about some groups of players, instead of the state of the game?
The state of the game atm? I like it just fine.
[...]
Now that is a debate that makes sense.
Whining about people not doing enough dps or not beeing friendly enough, or defending people from other people from supposedly false accusations of not being friendly enough seem pointless, though.
Game environments that enable 1-2 good players to carry stages designed to be concluded by teams of 5 or even 10 players negates the need to moan over the low performance of others. Every single player in game has the option, but not the requirement, to become as good.
A state where a full team of good players is required to conclude an advanced map however is problematic because underperforming players can easily lead to annoying game experiences then. The consequence is a separated community because good players tend to stick together simply excluding the bad ones from play.
Over the duration of the past 2 years we had both situations in this game. I like the first one a lot better and that is the reason why I criticize most of your forum posts. Your ambitions to make good players less good will simply lead to situation two again.
I have nine characters by now that can dish out 75k+ DPS! One even over twice as much. I rather use them to pull every newbe in fleet (and even in game) through than to play exclusively in DPS Diamond. I get a good match out of it and they get a chance to play. It’s a fair deal I can easily offer under current conditions but not if I'm annoyed.
This is the first CC event in over 2 years where I count 300+ players on advanced and 50+ ones in normal. It’s almost 50% of the numbers we got a few years ago when CC was brand new. Peeps simply pug and finally don’t hide in DPS channels anymore.
It is my opinion that the recent power tsunami has a healthy influence on the endgame situation and encourages players to play together despite their respective in game standings and back grounds.
It’s a good thing.
No, it's not.
Allowing 1 good player to effortlessly curbstomp mission supposedly designed for teams of 5-10 players negates the point of playing together at all. If I can easily solo a queue, waiting for a bunch of randos to show up is just a royal waste of time.
You take your 75k into ISA with a bunch of newbies, you get (in your opinion) a good match out of it and they get a chance to watch you play. The next time they try it and don't luck out on someone to carry them, they get to start a stupid forum thread asking why the Borg are suddenly so powerful when before they died in seconds.
And the CC event hasn't been a game in ages. It's a chore. Zone in, fly to 10km, tap space for a while, collect reward, repeat with next toon. The very fact that Advanced has more players than Normal proves it's way too easy, that the only peeps who play Normal are the ones who don't know Advanced is just as auto-win.
Players of vastly different skill levels just aren't meant to play together. Not seriously.
Yeah I would also add, the people in the dps channels are really nice people in general. Always willing to help, and chat about mechanics. I've also never been lectured by them, or told I'm not good enough. Even in my early days there. I've also not failed any missions when teaming in the channels.
So really don't know why theses dps channel people get a bad wrap.
The only time I've witnessed hostility is when pugging in a low dps groups. Probably because those people with low DPS, are sick and tired of failing adv queues, and they rage when the mission fails.
I've never seen such behavior while doing channel runs, not once, not ever. Its all, GG, Thx for game, Good job.
You NEVER see that in pugs, ever. Well maybe not ever but it is certainly very, very rare.
i don't understand why there is a discussion about the dpsers. they are not the problem, because they just use the available stuff in game. you can blame someone to use a knife instead of a stone.
the real question is why cryptic has decided to follow this path and has added in game all these new abilities, focused on dps.
In my opinion, nothing should be removed or nerfed (except 1 or 2 things), but everything should rebalanced. the enemies should have more tricks, the escorts enemies should fly like real escorts. in general, they should fly faster.
1 example, when the borg use their boarding parties, our ships should be disabled during a moment (not targetable), and tactical team should be useless against this skill. And after this moment, one of our system should be disabled during few seconds. At least we would have the real impression of have been boarded. enemies should be able to use more often gravity well, tyken rift, etc. 1 of the problem in this game, is that we can clean all the buffs which affect our ships (plasma burn -> hazard emitter, the hirogen skill -> science team, etc ) when the enemies can't do the same thing.
hostilities between the players is a waste of time and hide the real problems of this game.
Why are we suddenly talking about some groups of players, instead of the state of the game?
The state of the game atm? I like it just fine.
[...]
Now that is a debate that makes sense.
Whining about people not doing enough dps or not beeing friendly enough, or defending people from other people from supposedly false accusations of not being friendly enough seem pointless, though.
Game environments that enable 1-2 good players to carry stages designed to be concluded by teams of 5 or even 10 players negates the need to moan over the low performance of others. Every single player in game has the option, but not the requirement, to become as good.
A state where a full team of good players is required to conclude an advanced map however is problematic because underperforming players can easily lead to annoying game experiences then. The consequence is a separated community because good players tend to stick together simply excluding the bad ones from play.
Over the duration of the past 2 years we had both situations in this game. I like the first one a lot better and that is the reason why I criticize most of your forum posts. Your ambitions to make good players less good will simply lead to situation two again.
I have nine characters by now that can dish out 75k+ DPS! One even over twice as much. I rather use them to pull every newbe in fleet (and even in game) through than to play exclusively in DPS Diamond. I get a good match out of it and they get a chance to play. It’s a fair deal I can easily offer under current conditions but not if I'm annoyed.
This is the first CC event in over 2 years where I count 300+ players on advanced and 50+ ones in normal. It’s almost 50% of the numbers we got a few years ago when CC was brand new. Peeps simply pug and finally don’t hide in DPS channels anymore.
It is my opinion that the recent power tsunami has a healthy influence on the endgame situation and encourages players to play together despite their respective in game standings and back grounds.
It’s a good thing.
No, it's not.
Allowing 1 good player to effortlessly curbstomp mission supposedly designed for teams of 5-10 players negates the point of playing together at all. If I can easily solo a queue, waiting for a bunch of randos to show up is just a royal waste of time.
You take your 75k into ISA with a bunch of newbies, you get (in your opinion) a good match out of it and they get a chance to watch you play. The next time they try it and don't luck out on someone to carry them, they get to start a stupid forum thread asking why the Borg are suddenly so powerful when before they died in seconds.
And the CC event hasn't been a game in ages. It's a chore. Zone in, fly to 10km, tap space for a while, collect reward, repeat with next toon. The very fact that Advanced has more players than Normal proves it's way too easy, that the only peeps who play Normal are the ones who don't know Advanced is just as auto-win.
Players of vastly different skill levels just aren't meant to play together. Not seriously.
Agreed. While I'm sure that there are DPS'ers like peterconnorfirst who truly are using their powers to support the team and trying to make things easier / more enjoyable for everyone, in the end they're also preventing the average player from playing their advanced content. That may not be their intention, but it is the result nonetheless.
Like I said before, the fact that there are players who are able to do over 100k damage when on average you'd need 15k per person in an advanced mission shows that the DPS ranges are too wide and that power creep has spiralled out of control, once again.
i don't understand why there is a discussion about the dpsers. they are not the problem, because they just use the available stuff in game. you can blame someone to use a knife instead of a stone.
the real question is why cryptic has decided to follow this path and has added in game all these new abilities, focused on dps.
In my opinion, nothing should be removed or nerfed (except 1 or 2 things), but everything should rebalanced. the enemies should have more tricks, the escorts enemies should fly like real escorts. in general, they should fly faster.
1 example, when the borg use their boarding parties, our ships should be disabled during a moment (not targetable), and tactical team should be useless against this skill. And after this moment, one of our system should be disabled during few seconds. At least we would have the real impression of have been boarded. enemies should be able to use more often gravity well, tyken rift, etc. 1 of the problem in this game, is that we can clean all the buffs which affect our ships (plasma burn -> hazard emitter, the hirogen skill -> science team, etc ) when the enemies can't do the same thing.
hostilities between the players is a waste of time and hide the real problems of this game.
Agreed. DPS'ers are using the tools that are available to almost everyone. It's not their fault, most of us would use or indeed are using those same tools and be good at the game. If there's anything to blame, it's the perverse system of selling power creep and getting most of your revenue from that. Cryptic is all too happy to sell power creep, and to a certain extent that's understandable as it keeps the game alive, but at the same time it is also causing these problems more and more players are seeing.
Problems that can be fun for a while cause it may seem fun to kill everything with great ease (or see someone do it for you) for the first time, after a while it just gets boring and it forces everyone who's not able or willing to become 10 times as powerful as should be necessary for an advanced queue away from those queues.
Imho, the DPS ranges available to players should diminish, greatly. Make it such that normal content becomes slightly more difficult (and thus more interesting for the average player) and keep advanced as it is, but lower the available DPS to players, for example by placing a hard cap on what's possible for players to achieve.
While this would indeed mean that some players might moan about the bad performance of other team members, in the end I believe this is a more sustainable solution cause right now players are rightfully 'moaning' because most advanced content is unplayable even if they're good enough when one person can vaporise everything in mere seconds. So allowing power creep to continue to exist is not a solution. Give those who are not able to play advanced a more interesting alternative (a more challenging normal difficulty mission, and perhaps block players who are too well geared for those missions) and keep advanced what it is supposed to be: advanced content, not an instance that can be solo'ed by one player.
And then add Elites, but keep hit and shield points the same so that there won't be a NEED for more DPS (cause that's one of the other problems: almost everything is centred around DPS needed to kill HP sacks). Add more abilities for enemies to make it an elite mission.
So, basically, reduce DPS ranges, reinstate certain standards (not everyone should be able to complete advanced content and there's nothing wrong with that) and make missions more difficult by adding abilities to NPC's, or in other words, move away from 'difficulty = amount of HP and shield points a NPC has'. That alone would greatly reduce the problems with DPS ranges that are too wide and allow players to have 10 times as much DPS as is needed for advanced content.
Comments
What I suggest is that changes to the game should not be made just because a bunch of peeps who let themselves be carried through endgame contend find the role of a spectator to be too easy.
When I get 1st place in cca playing a full aggro tank in a pug I felt challenged.
If I can, so can they.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The question for this thread should be, "should there be more challenging end game content beyond advanced" ? which i'd have to say yes to and it shouldn't just be more hit points and shields,
I was under this impression as well for a while. You know, DPSer are all elitists and such. After becoming a DPSer myself and getting to know quiet a few I must say this is not the case in general. A game environment where the content is so hard that DPSer have to stick to their own tends to generate elitist attitudes. A game environment that is just fine for DPSer to cope with no matter what team they are in does not.
At the current state of advanced maps I’m literally happy for every bad player I end up with since they bring the difficulty setting to a level where I get a good fight out of it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed completely.
People that think the DPS leagues foster hostility are on another planet. When I was looking to get better at this game, I got a lot of great advice from DPS people and they were always happy to share their knowledge. It would be elitist if they horded the knowledge and only shared with those in their 'club' but that's not the case. The DPS guys freely share all their 'tricks' to anyone that simply asks.
Honestly, I have seen more hostility going toward DPS'ers then coming from DPS'ers.
However, claiming "high DPS-er are toxic"...I don't agree at all. There are quite a few of them taking time to answer questions about mechanics, even putting up tutorial videos and homepages.
On the other hand - if you doing about 5k DPS and being in an advanced PvE, maybe not even know where to go in that Mission - then you (rightly) promt a reaction.
Personally I set the mark at 10k DPS before I consider joining in an advanced queue. Because if everybody does less damage, the Mission WILL fail. And it is frustrating if you have a "doing all right" toon and you fail because People think they are better than they are. If you are not good enough for advanced queues, do normal ones.
And the mark I wrote - 10k dps - you can even do that using White Mark X gear if you know the game a bit. And if you either don't know the game or don't have decent gear...you shouldn't be in advanced or elite missions.
Imagine you do drive a car either before you have a driving licence or if you don't follow the rules- you'll get abused as well.
So basically: if you receive a lot of abuse in PvEs, you are doing it wrong. Then check out Videos, read the STO wiki and rethink your build.
with daily Bonus you can get through the Reputation System doing one normal mark Thing per day anyway. And with Reputation traits jeeeeez - just use fire at will and you'll do more than 10k or more
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Quoted for truth! The anti-DPS'er crowd are elitists in their own right. Note I said anti-DPS'er, not anti-DPS, those are two different things. One is against DPS in general (which is fine), the other is against those that try to up their DPS (DPS'ers).
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Because the state of the game is too depressing.
I think they are related to the state of the game too and the team composition greatly influences whether the run will be too easy or too hard in grouped content.
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The state of the game atm? I like it just fine.
Was bad for me after DR when I suddenly felt forced by the content to seek players equally good as me to do maps I already mastered for years. I had to select the right teams and, what was worst, had to tell friends and fleet mates that they could not join me because they were not good enough. Today I only need to do so on a handful of elite mission where a certain level of skill is required. And even there my friends and I get more and more into a position where we can pull freshmen through.
For the rest of the maps I can simply team-up with everybody and play undisturbed without being annoyed. Sometimes I get a challange, sometimes I fail, but most of the time I get fun and rewarding experience out of it. And that with substantial team contribution on my part.
It’s the perfect, fertile ground the queues had before the last expansion and I strongly think that, besides a few sto forums whiners, more and more players of this game will see it again and make greater use of the queued team contend.
It's the only endgame contend we have.
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You're just mad because people are talking about DPS players in a non negative light.
The perceived 'divide' between DPS and non DPS oriented players is very much a part of the 'state of the game.'
Very good point, and a very important distinction. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to chase DPS (just like there is nothing wrong with chasing DPS.) It's the attacking of players that play 'differently' that needs to stop. Everyone is entitled to play the game in a way that's fun for them.
Point is they are all effective and I have fun with each of them however when I use my DPS Annorax I do get the occasional rude pm from a guy saying I "ruined his fun and need to play on elite content" when the fact of the matter is very very few players even play elite (even in the dps channels) because they are a chore with rewards that aren't worth the effort. If you can run 3 Advanced STFs in 20 minutes for 720 dilithium each plus the mark trade in or do a Elite Queue in 15 minutes for 1280 (idr exact numbers
Nice post and quiet accurate.
A bit of an off-topic question. You mention the Annorax for your sci and I noticed that it is considered a desirable ship to get by a lot of people. I currently use the Paradox I happen to like. What kind of improvement would the Annorax offer?
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Sorry for going off topic but just wanted to answer ya
Game environments that enable 1-2 good players to carry stages designed to be concluded by teams of 5 or even 10 players negates the need to moan over the low performance of others. Every single player in game has the option, but not the requirement, to become as good.
A state where a full team of good players is required to conclude an advanced map however is problematic because underperforming players can easily lead to annoying game experiences then. The consequence is a separated community because good players tend to stick together simply excluding the bad ones from play.
Over the duration of the past 2 years we had both situations in this game. I like the first one a lot better and that is the reason why I criticize most of your forum posts. Your ambitions to make good players less good will simply lead to situation two again.
I have nine characters by now that can dish out 75k+ DPS! One even over twice as much. I rather use them to pull every newbe in fleet (and even in game) through than to play exclusively in DPS Diamond. I get a good match out of it and they get a chance to play. It’s a fair deal I can easily offer under current conditions but not if I'm annoyed.
This is the first CC event in over 2 years where I count 300+ players on advanced and 50+ ones in normal. It’s almost 50% of the numbers we got a few years ago when CC was brand new. Peeps simply pug and finally don’t hide in DPS channels anymore.
It is my opinion that the recent power tsunami has a healthy influence on the endgame situation and encourages players to play together despite their respective in game standings and back grounds.
It’s a good thing.
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or fight with 1 frontal Mk I weapon in crappy ships
I do both from time to time
Meheheh
You do not have to drive your car at Speed limit all the time....
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
And it usually is the "doing all right" people who complain about underperforming teammates, not the high-DPSers. Because why get all worked up about your teammates' performance if you can complete the mission by yourself anyway? I certainly don't.
The driver's licence analogy is good. Players should be instructed and tested before unlocking advanced content.
If you could see me right now, you would see a man giving you a standing ovation.
Seriously, you #$%^ing nailed it.. absolutely spot on, every word.
It was a rare pleasure to read something this well thought out and articulately explained.
You will find that most of the people that have the bad attitude can't be found in the DPS channels, they tend to turn up in pugs mostly.
Allowing 1 good player to effortlessly curbstomp mission supposedly designed for teams of 5-10 players negates the point of playing together at all. If I can easily solo a queue, waiting for a bunch of randos to show up is just a royal waste of time.
You take your 75k into ISA with a bunch of newbies, you get (in your opinion) a good match out of it and they get a chance to watch you play. The next time they try it and don't luck out on someone to carry them, they get to start a stupid forum thread asking why the Borg are suddenly so powerful when before they died in seconds.
And the CC event hasn't been a game in ages. It's a chore. Zone in, fly to 10km, tap space for a while, collect reward, repeat with next toon. The very fact that Advanced has more players than Normal proves it's way too easy, that the only peeps who play Normal are the ones who don't know Advanced is just as auto-win.
Players of vastly different skill levels just aren't meant to play together. Not seriously.
Always willing to help, and chat about mechanics.
I've also never been lectured by them, or told I'm not good enough. Even in my early days there.
I've also not failed any missions when teaming in the channels.
So really don't know why theses dps channel people get a bad wrap.
The only time I've witnessed hostility is when pugging in a low dps groups.
Probably because those people with low DPS, are sick and tired of failing adv queues, and they rage when the mission fails.
I've never seen such behavior while doing channel runs, not once, not ever.
Its all, GG, Thx for game, Good job.
You NEVER see that in pugs, ever. Well maybe not ever but it is certainly very, very rare.
the real question is why cryptic has decided to follow this path and has added in game all these new abilities, focused on dps.
In my opinion, nothing should be removed or nerfed (except 1 or 2 things), but everything should rebalanced. the enemies should have more tricks, the escorts enemies should fly like real escorts. in general, they should fly faster.
1 example, when the borg use their boarding parties, our ships should be disabled during a moment (not targetable), and tactical team should be useless against this skill. And after this moment, one of our system should be disabled during few seconds. At least we would have the real impression of have been boarded. enemies should be able to use more often gravity well, tyken rift, etc. 1 of the problem in this game, is that we can clean all the buffs which affect our ships (plasma burn -> hazard emitter, the hirogen skill -> science team, etc ) when the enemies can't do the same thing.
hostilities between the players is a waste of time and hide the real problems of this game.
Agreed. While I'm sure that there are DPS'ers like peterconnorfirst who truly are using their powers to support the team and trying to make things easier / more enjoyable for everyone, in the end they're also preventing the average player from playing their advanced content. That may not be their intention, but it is the result nonetheless.
Like I said before, the fact that there are players who are able to do over 100k damage when on average you'd need 15k per person in an advanced mission shows that the DPS ranges are too wide and that power creep has spiralled out of control, once again.
Agreed. DPS'ers are using the tools that are available to almost everyone. It's not their fault, most of us would use or indeed are using those same tools and be good at the game. If there's anything to blame, it's the perverse system of selling power creep and getting most of your revenue from that. Cryptic is all too happy to sell power creep, and to a certain extent that's understandable as it keeps the game alive, but at the same time it is also causing these problems more and more players are seeing.
Problems that can be fun for a while cause it may seem fun to kill everything with great ease (or see someone do it for you) for the first time, after a while it just gets boring and it forces everyone who's not able or willing to become 10 times as powerful as should be necessary for an advanced queue away from those queues.
While this would indeed mean that some players might moan about the bad performance of other team members, in the end I believe this is a more sustainable solution cause right now players are rightfully 'moaning' because most advanced content is unplayable even if they're good enough when one person can vaporise everything in mere seconds. So allowing power creep to continue to exist is not a solution. Give those who are not able to play advanced a more interesting alternative (a more challenging normal difficulty mission, and perhaps block players who are too well geared for those missions) and keep advanced what it is supposed to be: advanced content, not an instance that can be solo'ed by one player.
And then add Elites, but keep hit and shield points the same so that there won't be a NEED for more DPS (cause that's one of the other problems: almost everything is centred around DPS needed to kill HP sacks). Add more abilities for enemies to make it an elite mission.
So, basically, reduce DPS ranges, reinstate certain standards (not everyone should be able to complete advanced content and there's nothing wrong with that) and make missions more difficult by adding abilities to NPC's, or in other words, move away from 'difficulty = amount of HP and shield points a NPC has'. That alone would greatly reduce the problems with DPS ranges that are too wide and allow players to have 10 times as much DPS as is needed for advanced content.