@starswordc is probably thinking how I am thinking, in regards to this FED/KDF peace talks/cold war.
Further, @daveyny and @jonsills, your point about the Amanda comments coming from Fuller is taken... but, I will remind you of the converse point: just because Fuller left the production does NOT mean they've abandoned the plans he mentioned a few months ago. Fuller is still credited as co-creator/exec producer. He still wrote the first two episodes, and he'll likely get story credit for the bulk of season one. Yes, the show has complete freedom to move away from Fuller's intentions... but, we don't know if they're actually doing that. If all of the other major developments are moving forward, as planned, then it doesn't negate other hints from popping up later in the season.
I ain't saying Amanda Grayson WILL be in season one, because of course, I don't know that. IF the series will be starting the ball rolling on a peace effort that culminates ultimately with TUC, THEN it makes sense for Amanda to be involved. That was my only point about that.
Regardless, I'm still intrigued by the possibilities of all of this.
^The whole concept of a "strong female character" misses the boat. You just need to write a strong, well-written CHARACTER that happens to have two X chromosomes. There's a really great Hayao Miyazaki quote here: "Many of my movies have strong female leads - brave, self-sufficient girls that don't think twice about fighting for what they believe in with all their heart. They'll need a friend, or a supporter, but never a savior. Any woman is just as capable of being a hero as any man."
The problem we run into in Hollywood a lot is (usually male) writers taking it too far and insisting that the female leader has to ALWAYS be right and even dominate her male subordinates by pulling rank or whatever. See SF Debris' comments on the Stargate Atlantis episode "Letters From Pegasus" where he criticizes the handling of the disagreement between Dr. Weir and Cavanaugh. In "Thirty-Eight Minutes" Cavanaugh had a legitimate concern about The Plan and brought it to Weir's attention as was his job, and she basically called him a coward. "Letters" reacts by having him use his message home to take his concerns to General O'Neill, which the episode treats basically as b*tchy tattling, as if to explain that the "trained diplomat" female leader was so undiplomatic because the male bit character was an **** who deserved every bit of it. ETA: It wasn't as if he was directly challenging her authority (the way Sheppard sometimes did, but he's a protagonist so he gets away with it), he just went, "Ma'am, this thing might explode and wouldn't we look stupid and/or dead? #justsaying"
agreed. drop strong from strong female lead, when what I ment was a strong character who just happens to be female. Didn't try to stir that pot, but there were two meanings to the phrase.
This series takes place ten years before TOS - one of the few things we do know. In TOS, there was conflict with the Klingon Empire; there are implications that there had been border conflicts involving Fed and Klink ships actually shooting at one another around the time the show began, but that both sides had been holding short of all-out war. (Given what we've learned about Klingon culture since, it could well be that the shooting ships had been part of a Great House's private fleet, while the Empire as such did not want to start a war with the Federation just yet.) It was a mostly-cold war, to be sure (as seen in "Errand of Mercy", where Kirk and Spock disguised themselves as locals and tried to conceal their guerilla actions against a Klingon occupation as a planetary uprising), but until the Organians imposed a peace between the two sides, war was still on the table.
The casting announced thus far implies that we might be seeing how this conflict develops - from both sides. It's not like Starfleet goes charging into space looking for a good punch-up, after all, nor like the Klingons attack strange spacecraft blindly - they're warriors, not xenophobes. Conflict between the two might be seen as inevitable, as both are expansionistic by nature*, but it's not like the first Fed and Klink to see each other just started blasting away.
*This is where I wish they'd kept the Klingon society and language from John M. Ford's novel The Final Reflection. The Klingon word for what they had, in the novel, wasn't "empire" - the word komerex translated as "the structure that grows" (hence Komerex Klingon, Komerex Federation). It had an opposite, khesterex - "the structure that dies." Think about the implications for a moment.
@starswordc is probably thinking how I am thinking, in regards to this FED/KDF peace talks/cold war.
Further, @daveyny and @jonsills, your point about the Amanda comments coming from Fuller is taken... but, I will remind you of the converse point: just because Fuller left the production does NOT mean they've abandoned the plans he mentioned a few months ago. Fuller is still credited as co-creator/exec producer. He still wrote the first two episodes, and he'll likely get story credit for the bulk of season one. Yes, the show has complete freedom to move away from Fuller's intentions... but, we don't know if they're actually doing that. If all of the other major developments are moving forward, as planned, then it doesn't negate other hints from popping up later in the season.
I ain't saying Amanda Grayson WILL be in season one, because of course, I don't know that. IF the series will be starting the ball rolling on a peace effort that culminates ultimately with TUC, THEN it makes sense for Amanda to be involved. That was my only point about that.
Regardless, I'm still intrigued by the possibilities of all of this.
You're forgetting one major point about the history of the Federation/Klingon Peace Treaty...
The Klingons weren't even interested in discussing one, until Praxis went kablooie, and that won't happen for another 40 years (2293) from the time of Discovery.
And that's even after the Organians shut the ongoing hostilities down during TOS.
I'm not sure if the Klingons of this new show are even interested in "Cold War" kinds of interaction, Klingons are not particularly known for holding back against their enemies.
The Federation probably has a standing policy during this new shows time period for their Star Fleet captains not to go around riling things up, so as to not give the Klingons a reason to go all out and attack in force.
I'm thinking that the captain of the Discovery probably has some kind of grudge against the Klingons and is purposely doing chit to rile them up, that's why the lead female character ends up having to relive the captain and taking over.
Kinda like how Captain Maxwell went all bat-chit-crazy against the Cardassians in TNG.
Also, the sub-plotline of T'Kuvma trying to unite the Klingon Great Houses, may be intended to present a united front against the perceived threat from the Federation.
A coordinated front of all the houses combined, would be a greater deterrent than a whole bunch of individual skirmishes all over the place.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
right. correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the order as I see it in short summation:
ST:Enterprise - fought first KDF/Starfleet battles; Klingon Augment virus released.
ST:Discovery - virus infects large % of Klingon population still
or does ST:classic come before this?
really, I need to go back and check the timelines again at some point.
was trying to figure out if the 'two' types of Klingons would be available for their use or not.
@wendysue53: If I sounded like I was jumping on you personally, then I'm sorry because I didn't mean it that way. I just happen to really enjoy watching, reading and writing about badass female leaders (and there are plenty of really good ones out there, e.g. Alexis Carew, Liz McCord on Madam Secretary, Tanis Richards in the Aeon 14 books, and any woman written by David Weber or Tanya Huff, for a couple recent ones), so the "Janeway Problem" is kind of a bugbear for me.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
@wendysue53: If I sounded like I was jumping on you personally, then I'm sorry because I didn't mean it that way. I just happen to really enjoy watching, reading and writing about badass female leaders (and there are plenty of really good ones out there, e.g. Alexis Carew, Liz McCord on Madam Secretary, Tanis Richards in the Aeon 14 books, and any woman written by David Weber or Tanya Huff, for a couple recent ones), so the "Janeway Problem" is kind of a bugbear for me.
no prob. I'm the same way.
Not the same genre, but you might like Ilona Andrews' 'Magic' series.
Also, Rachel Bach's 'Paradox' series is an excellent Space Opera. could name some others, but those are top of my list at the sec.
You're forgetting one major point about the history of the Federation/Klingon Peace Treaty...
The Klingons weren't even interested in discussing one, until Praxis went kablooie, and that won't happen for another 40 years (2293) from the time of Discovery.
And that's even after the Organians shut the ongoing hostilities down during TOS.
Oh, no, I haven't forgotten that at all.
Much like real life, true political peace usually takes decades to develop. The Organian incident could be seen as a kid of "Cuban Missile Crisis" moment in the history of the UFP and KDF. Canonically speaking in Trek, it's the closest the two sides came to a "hot war." Shoot, in our history, there were a few moments that COULD have pushed the US and USSR into full nuclear war. Yes, Praxis was the inciting incident for the Khitomer peace talks... but, the Klingon Empire didn't just wake up one morning and decide to negotiate peace with Sarek. It's quite likely the political climate ping-ponged back and forth, just like the US and USSR.
At least I don't see it that way, and canon doesn't go that deep into details. Sarek could recognize the need for peace with the KDF in 2255, but could still encounter a major setback in 2267 on Organia. The idea of peace, to negotiated peace, to established peace... they are all steps in the process. Discovery COULD be the start of the process, even if it is the birth of the IDEA of peace... but, that peace could still be a long ways off from being realized.
I think you're injecting too much "Sarek" into the storyline and it seems to be based on one "throw-away" line from a guy who isn't even involved in the production anymore.
Fuller mentioned Amanda as a cool character who obviously exists during this shows time period, but it was a passing thought to a question asked by a reporter about if we would see any of the TOS characters in the show.
It wasn't a statement of her actually being used, which in turn most likely means that Sarek isn't in the lineup either.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think you're injecting too much "Sarek" into the storyline and it seems to be based on one "throw-away" line from a guy who isn't even involved in the production anymore.
Fuller mentioned Amanda as a cool character who obviously exists during this shows time period, but it was a passing thought to a question asked by a reporter about if we would see any of the TOS characters in the show.
It wasn't a statement of her actually being used, which in turn most likely means that Sarek isn't in the lineup either.
Well, I'm basing it off of that statement from Fuller, and the statement from Nick Meyer about the connection to TUC.
And, I know, I know... it's pure speculation based on tea-leaf reading. I ain't saying it WILL happen... I'm just saying I'd like the idea (I think, LOL), if that is the direction they are going.
I hope the Organians are retconned out. Pointless One-shot gods that are suddenly MIA ever again in the entire franchise. They could have come in useful in the Dominion War.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I hope the Organians are retconned out. Pointless One-shot gods that are suddenly MIA ever again in the entire franchise. They could have come in useful in the Dominion War.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Discovery takes place about 10 years before anybody "officially" knows that the Organians even exist.
There's no reason to "retcon them out" at the time period that the show takes place.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I hope the Organians are retconned out. Pointless One-shot gods that are suddenly MIA ever again in the entire franchise. They could have come in useful in the Dominion War.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Discovery takes place about 10 years before anybody "officially" knows that the Organians even exist.
There's no reason to "retcon them out" at the time period that the show takes place.
I'm not necessarily on about DSC here, just the hope that some future media will wipe them from continuity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I hope the Organians are retconned out. Pointless One-shot gods that are suddenly MIA ever again in the entire franchise. They could have come in useful in the Dominion War.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Discovery takes place about 10 years before anybody "officially" knows that the Organians even exist.
There's no reason to "retcon them out" at the time period that the show takes place.
This is part of the reason why I prefer Sequels over Prequels. With Prequels we already know how it is going to end. We already know that the Federation will be formed in Enterprise. The Empire will take over and most of the Jedi killed in The Phantom Menace. With Discovery, we already know how it is going to end.
My other reason for preferring Sequels over Prequels is the style of technology. Enterprise's technology and uniforms looked much better than TOS' technology and uniforms which made it extremely weird in the In a Mirror Darkly episodes. So between Enterprise and TOS, they decided to go retro with their technology and uniforms?
So it will be interesting to see if Discovery uses a retro style or be more reminiscent of what we are familiar with now. Will the Science Officer use the 23rd Century version of a HTC Vive or will they use a Scope similar to the one used in TOS?
This is part of the reason why I prefer Sequels over Prequels. With Prequels we already know how it is going to end. We already know that the Federation will be formed in Enterprise. The Empire will take over and most of the Jedi killed in The Phantom Menace. With Discovery, we already know how it is going to end.
My other reason for preferring Sequels over Prequels is the style of technology. Enterprise's technology and uniforms looked much better than TOS' technology and uniforms which made it extremely weird in the In a Mirror Darkly episodes. So between Enterprise and TOS, they decided to go retro with their technology and uniforms?
So it will be interesting to see if Discovery uses a retro style or be more reminiscent of what we are familiar with now. Will the Science Officer use the 23rd Century version of a HTC Vive or will they use a Scope similar to the one used in TOS?
I agree. I don't understand Star Trek's obsession with prequels, especially after the last show prequel worked out so "well".
We have to wait and see, but in my opinion they desintegrate their own foot here. They limit their creativitiy severly by going the prequel route and at the same time try to bring in new stuff that we never heard of in the other shows - that's just a stupid combination of goals to have for a show. You either make a prequel and actually accept the limitations of it or you go forward and be creative. Good creative approach of a prequel would be to show us Tellarites for example or things only ever mentioned, never seen later on. But I bet we get a "Xindi" - some epic, universe affecting megaevent nobody ever mentions again. If one deems the Organians silly, this kind of prequel approach is just as.
As far as technology goes, I really hope they go for the Star Wars route and integrate retro style props into more appropriate frames (for example, TOS most certainly can use holoprojectors for 2D starmaps and such, and that can be projected from TOS style apparatus. I am afraid, though, they just restyle everything appropriate to the era it is shown in rather than the era that is portrayed.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I hope the Organians are retconned out. Pointless One-shot gods that are suddenly MIA ever again in the entire franchise. They could have come in useful in the Dominion War.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Discovery takes place about 10 years before anybody "officially" knows that the Organians even exist.
There's no reason to "retcon them out" at the time period that the show takes place.
I'm not necessarily on about DSC here, just the hope that some future media will wipe them from continuity.
'Tis why I'm still on-board for a hard canon reset.
I know I'm in the minority on that, though. And it's likely off the table, at least for a very long time.
'Tis why I'm still on-board for a hard canon reset.
I know I'm in the minority on that, though. And it's likely off the table, at least for a very long time.
What is a "hard canon reset"?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I think it means they want restart the franchise by stripping it down to its core concept of space exploration and toss out all the past stories, characters, aliens, and locations. You lose the 50 years of familiarity that the franchise has, but gain the ability to go in completely new directions without tripping over plot threads left by past writers.
So if this happened you could potentially wind up in a version of Star Trek where the Federation as we know it never existed and there has never been any starships named Enterprise. It would be about the boldest type of reimagining possible.
'Tis why I'm still on-board for a hard canon reset.
I know I'm in the minority on that, though. And it's likely off the table, at least for a very long time.
What is a "hard canon reset"?
Isn't that what JJ Abrams did with his Star Trek movies and with the Star Wars Extended Universe?
No its not. A 'hard canon reset' is a reboot. Neither ST or SW have been rebooted yet, by JJ or anybody. Disney jettisoned the EU not JJ and as they were only slightly canon in the first place even that doesn't count as a reboot.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Isn't that what JJ Abrams did with his Star Trek movies and with the Star Wars Extended Universe?
Nothing was reset in the Star Trek movies though. I know that people are somehow super confused about it, but it's really not that hard.
I thought about the Star Wars thing, this is the closest I could think of a "reset", however they simply adapted a "reasonable" policy of limiting canon to the movies and the shows like... Star Trek Before it was really a mess, if you wanted to actually know Star Wars canon you had to - basically - buy a bunch of different stuff. Now you just have to watch the movies. Which makes sense.
I think it means they want restart the franchise by stripping it down to its core concept of space exploration and toss out all the past stories, characters, aliens, and locations. You lose the 50 years of familiarity that the franchise has, but gain the ability to go in completely new directions without tripping over plot threads left by past writers.
So if this happened you could potentially wind up in a version of Star Trek where the Federation as we know it never existed and there has never been any starships named Enterprise. It would be about the boldest type of reimagining possible.
The other stuff would still be around and would be watched, though. It would be kinda nonsensical.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
no, they didn't, and it's NOT reasonable in the slightest
anything published after disney wiped the old canon is canon for their star wars, unless disney explicitly stated it wasn't (like the lego star wars TFA game)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
CBS hasn't officially confirmed it yet, thus we still don't know the characters name, beyond what Fuller has been quoted as saying she will be called "Number One".
The actress will also still be performing her series regular role in "The Walking Dead" show.
Another tid-bit that doesn't instill a great amount of confidence as to how much CBS is really interested in keeping this new Trek show around for awhile.
hummm...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
While CBS hasn't confirmed it they aren't the only source of info regarding actors/actresses career moves.
While she is still a series regular on The Walking Dead should have no real bearing on how CBS is committed to the show. Norman Reedus is also on The Walking Dead and headlines another show on AMC.
The beauty of a streaming series is that it doesn't have to conform to a network schedule. They can film in the Walking Dead off time and post it whenever.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Also interesting that the article lists three actors as Klingon cast members, so same crew or Klingon "hero ship" ?
Klingon "hero ship". If Discovery is set 10 years before TOS, then there is no way that there will be Klingon crew members on a Starfleet ship. The original trailer marketed Discovery as "New Crews. New Villains. New Heroes. New Worlds." Therefore, the only options were an Outer Limits style of show where each episode featured new characters, story, and setting or there are multiple crews that are focused on in the same setting and story. So we might have 3 Federation crews, 1 Klingon crew, and 1 alien crew that hasn't been mentioned yet where there might be a few episodes that doesn't have the Federation crews.
The Outer Limits style show would have worked well if they wanted to tell stories in different settings like have a few episodes set between Enterprise and TOS, a few episodes set between TOS and TNG, and a few episodes set after Nemesis. Of course, the production values for such a setting would be too expensive. However, this was speculation that only came out after the first trailer was released and we had no actual information about the series.
Comments
Further, @daveyny and @jonsills, your point about the Amanda comments coming from Fuller is taken... but, I will remind you of the converse point: just because Fuller left the production does NOT mean they've abandoned the plans he mentioned a few months ago. Fuller is still credited as co-creator/exec producer. He still wrote the first two episodes, and he'll likely get story credit for the bulk of season one. Yes, the show has complete freedom to move away from Fuller's intentions... but, we don't know if they're actually doing that. If all of the other major developments are moving forward, as planned, then it doesn't negate other hints from popping up later in the season.
I ain't saying Amanda Grayson WILL be in season one, because of course, I don't know that.
Regardless, I'm still intrigued by the possibilities of all of this.
agreed. drop strong from strong female lead, when what I ment was a strong character who just happens to be female. Didn't try to stir that pot, but there were two meanings to the phrase.
Just saying...
The casting announced thus far implies that we might be seeing how this conflict develops - from both sides. It's not like Starfleet goes charging into space looking for a good punch-up, after all, nor like the Klingons attack strange spacecraft blindly - they're warriors, not xenophobes. Conflict between the two might be seen as inevitable, as both are expansionistic by nature*, but it's not like the first Fed and Klink to see each other just started blasting away.
*This is where I wish they'd kept the Klingon society and language from John M. Ford's novel The Final Reflection. The Klingon word for what they had, in the novel, wasn't "empire" - the word komerex translated as "the structure that grows" (hence Komerex Klingon, Komerex Federation). It had an opposite, khesterex - "the structure that dies." Think about the implications for a moment.
You're forgetting one major point about the history of the Federation/Klingon Peace Treaty...
The Klingons weren't even interested in discussing one, until Praxis went kablooie, and that won't happen for another 40 years (2293) from the time of Discovery.
And that's even after the Organians shut the ongoing hostilities down during TOS.
I'm not sure if the Klingons of this new show are even interested in "Cold War" kinds of interaction, Klingons are not particularly known for holding back against their enemies.
The Federation probably has a standing policy during this new shows time period for their Star Fleet captains not to go around riling things up, so as to not give the Klingons a reason to go all out and attack in force.
I'm thinking that the captain of the Discovery probably has some kind of grudge against the Klingons and is purposely doing chit to rile them up, that's why the lead female character ends up having to relive the captain and taking over.
Kinda like how Captain Maxwell went all bat-chit-crazy against the Cardassians in TNG.
Also, the sub-plotline of T'Kuvma trying to unite the Klingon Great Houses, may be intended to present a united front against the perceived threat from the Federation.
A coordinated front of all the houses combined, would be a greater deterrent than a whole bunch of individual skirmishes all over the place.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
ST:Enterprise - fought first KDF/Starfleet battles; Klingon Augment virus released.
ST:Discovery - virus infects large % of Klingon population still
or does ST:classic come before this?
really, I need to go back and check the timelines again at some point.
was trying to figure out if the 'two' types of Klingons would be available for their use or not.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
no prob. I'm the same way.
Not the same genre, but you might like Ilona Andrews' 'Magic' series.
Also, Rachel Bach's 'Paradox' series is an excellent Space Opera. could name some others, but those are top of my list at the sec.
Oh, no, I haven't forgotten that at all.
Much like real life, true political peace usually takes decades to develop. The Organian incident could be seen as a kid of "Cuban Missile Crisis" moment in the history of the UFP and KDF. Canonically speaking in Trek, it's the closest the two sides came to a "hot war." Shoot, in our history, there were a few moments that COULD have pushed the US and USSR into full nuclear war. Yes, Praxis was the inciting incident for the Khitomer peace talks... but, the Klingon Empire didn't just wake up one morning and decide to negotiate peace with Sarek. It's quite likely the political climate ping-ponged back and forth, just like the US and USSR.
At least I don't see it that way, and canon doesn't go that deep into details. Sarek could recognize the need for peace with the KDF in 2255, but could still encounter a major setback in 2267 on Organia. The idea of peace, to negotiated peace, to established peace... they are all steps in the process. Discovery COULD be the start of the process, even if it is the birth of the IDEA of peace... but, that peace could still be a long ways off from being realized.
Fuller mentioned Amanda as a cool character who obviously exists during this shows time period, but it was a passing thought to a question asked by a reporter about if we would see any of the TOS characters in the show.
It wasn't a statement of her actually being used, which in turn most likely means that Sarek isn't in the lineup either.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Well, I'm basing it off of that statement from Fuller, and the statement from Nick Meyer about the connection to TUC.
And, I know, I know... it's pure speculation based on tea-leaf reading. I ain't saying it WILL happen... I'm just saying I'd like the idea (I think, LOL), if that is the direction they are going.
Also, Klingons... yay, and don't make them soft.
TOS single bit of inter episode continuity (the Federation-Klingon treaty) rendered moot by the absence of its enforcers.
I like to think them and the Metrons wiped each other out. Or they both teamed up against Trelane and Apollo and were wiped out by the Thasians or Gorgan or something.
...TOS had a lot of non-corporeal gods.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Discovery takes place about 10 years before anybody "officially" knows that the Organians even exist.
There's no reason to "retcon them out" at the time period that the show takes place.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'm not necessarily on about DSC here, just the hope that some future media will wipe them from continuity.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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This is part of the reason why I prefer Sequels over Prequels. With Prequels we already know how it is going to end. We already know that the Federation will be formed in Enterprise. The Empire will take over and most of the Jedi killed in The Phantom Menace. With Discovery, we already know how it is going to end.
My other reason for preferring Sequels over Prequels is the style of technology. Enterprise's technology and uniforms looked much better than TOS' technology and uniforms which made it extremely weird in the In a Mirror Darkly episodes. So between Enterprise and TOS, they decided to go retro with their technology and uniforms?
So it will be interesting to see if Discovery uses a retro style or be more reminiscent of what we are familiar with now. Will the Science Officer use the 23rd Century version of a HTC Vive or will they use a Scope similar to the one used in TOS?
I agree. I don't understand Star Trek's obsession with prequels, especially after the last show prequel worked out so "well".
We have to wait and see, but in my opinion they desintegrate their own foot here. They limit their creativitiy severly by going the prequel route and at the same time try to bring in new stuff that we never heard of in the other shows - that's just a stupid combination of goals to have for a show. You either make a prequel and actually accept the limitations of it or you go forward and be creative. Good creative approach of a prequel would be to show us Tellarites for example or things only ever mentioned, never seen later on. But I bet we get a "Xindi" - some epic, universe affecting megaevent nobody ever mentions again. If one deems the Organians silly, this kind of prequel approach is just as.
As far as technology goes, I really hope they go for the Star Wars route and integrate retro style props into more appropriate frames (for example, TOS most certainly can use holoprojectors for 2D starmaps and such, and that can be projected from TOS style apparatus. I am afraid, though, they just restyle everything appropriate to the era it is shown in rather than the era that is portrayed.
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'Tis why I'm still on-board for a hard canon reset.
I know I'm in the minority on that, though. And it's likely off the table, at least for a very long time.
What is a "hard canon reset"?
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Isn't that what JJ Abrams did with his Star Trek movies and with the Star Wars Extended Universe?
I think it means they want restart the franchise by stripping it down to its core concept of space exploration and toss out all the past stories, characters, aliens, and locations. You lose the 50 years of familiarity that the franchise has, but gain the ability to go in completely new directions without tripping over plot threads left by past writers.
So if this happened you could potentially wind up in a version of Star Trek where the Federation as we know it never existed and there has never been any starships named Enterprise. It would be about the boldest type of reimagining possible.
No its not. A 'hard canon reset' is a reboot. Neither ST or SW have been rebooted yet, by JJ or anybody. Disney jettisoned the EU not JJ and as they were only slightly canon in the first place even that doesn't count as a reboot.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Nothing was reset in the Star Trek movies though. I know that people are somehow super confused about it, but it's really not that hard.
I thought about the Star Wars thing, this is the closest I could think of a "reset", however they simply adapted a "reasonable" policy of limiting canon to the movies and the shows like... Star Trek
The other stuff would still be around and would be watched, though. It would be kinda nonsensical.
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anything published after disney wiped the old canon is canon for their star wars, unless disney explicitly stated it wasn't (like the lego star wars TFA game)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The lead has been cast
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
CBS hasn't officially confirmed it yet, thus we still don't know the characters name, beyond what Fuller has been quoted as saying she will be called "Number One".
The actress will also still be performing her series regular role in "The Walking Dead" show.
Another tid-bit that doesn't instill a great amount of confidence as to how much CBS is really interested in keeping this new Trek show around for awhile.
hummm...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
While she is still a series regular on The Walking Dead should have no real bearing on how CBS is committed to the show. Norman Reedus is also on The Walking Dead and headlines another show on AMC.
The beauty of a streaming series is that it doesn't have to conform to a network schedule. They can film in the Walking Dead off time and post it whenever.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Neither show runs a 20-26 episode season (although, I don't watch TWD).
Glad they got the lead actress figured out!
Klingon "hero ship". If Discovery is set 10 years before TOS, then there is no way that there will be Klingon crew members on a Starfleet ship. The original trailer marketed Discovery as "New Crews. New Villains. New Heroes. New Worlds." Therefore, the only options were an Outer Limits style of show where each episode featured new characters, story, and setting or there are multiple crews that are focused on in the same setting and story. So we might have 3 Federation crews, 1 Klingon crew, and 1 alien crew that hasn't been mentioned yet where there might be a few episodes that doesn't have the Federation crews.
The Outer Limits style show would have worked well if they wanted to tell stories in different settings like have a few episodes set between Enterprise and TOS, a few episodes set between TOS and TNG, and a few episodes set after Nemesis. Of course, the production values for such a setting would be too expensive. However, this was speculation that only came out after the first trailer was released and we had no actual information about the series.