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Da big *NEW TREK TV SHOW* thread!

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  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Just upgraded my All Access subscription to commercial free. Looking forward to the show, though saddened about the delay. As for wendy's speculation that they would toss the project. Do you really think they are going to default on the MASSIVE contract with Netflix & shell out penalties on that plus deal with the huge backlash from their stockholders & the resulting free- fall in their stock value? That would the corporate equivalent of a man saying "after I chop off my testicles I'm going to shove this hot poker in my ****" its not gonna happen.

    Do I think that? yes, actually, I do believe they not only could but would. they've done it before with other contracts of similar type, and if they don't particularly like the show they'll intentionally TRIBBLE it up. Two examples with probably other stations: Firefly and Invasion. There are more, but those two are standing out in my head. THey had huge fan bases before they were even made, but then the stations killed them when they aired. Had to do with the 'frowned upon' attitude of the higherups in the station.
    THere's also the Star Trek named shows that several stations tried to kill off, not just the Classic one. DS9 for example was nearly tossed halfway through its first season. That's just one example. There are probably others. They don't like scifi, even if their watchers do. I'm not sure, but didn't a similar thing nearly happen to X-Files at one point? :/
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    Do you get the feeling that the STDiscovery trailer was made to poll for Fan reactions so that they could decide whether or not to toss the whole project out before they even make the first film? And that they made the ship so ugly to deliberately tilt that poll into the negative so that they could refuse to finish the project?

    If so, they succeeded.

    Not they didn't. They made a ship far more appealing than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.

    I don't think you understand how aesthetics work. They're subjective not objective.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    Do you get the feeling that the STDiscovery trailer was made to poll for Fan reactions so that they could decide whether or not to toss the whole project out before they even make the first film? And that they made the ship so ugly to deliberately tilt that poll into the negative so that they could refuse to finish the project?

    If so, they succeeded.

    Not they didn't. They made a ship far more appealing than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.

    I don't think you understand how aesthetics work. They're subjective not objective.​​

    I'm a graphic designer. I know how aesthetics work. But one would have to be blind to state that the design 'works' in the Federation framework as it's barely a federation type ship...

    But each thing/group/faction in Star trek has a specific 'style' and the ship on STDiscovery not only doesn't have that style, it doesn't have any of the standards of the other ships used by the Federation. If you are going to look at it from an art angle, then instead of 'Realism', you're looking at an extremely blocky form of the 'Abstract', much like the public russian art of the '90s. The ship has all the right parts, but the whole is the sum of those parts and, well... the whole thing looks like a bunch of pieces stuck together from different ships, as if they don't belong. So as far as 'aesthetics', it doesn't really work. If I were to set up a Ferengi used-starship yard and put that on the lot, it'd never sell.

    As for the Excelsior and Galaxy, those are milestones of the Federation starship design. Most everything about them works for what they are supposed to be. It may be that you find Romulan or Klingon ships more appealing, but those are basically the same thing - visually. Romulans ships are usually smoother, while klingon ships are supposed to be more blocky. Their overall shaped, if slightly modified could be either Romulan or Klingon. That's their style.

    This ship, though, has the style of the Klingons, which isn't part of Federation design. Take a klingon ship, have it chase a saucer section, then ram that klingon ship up that saucer's backside, and Poof! you have their new ship for STDiscovery.

    Now I can't blame you if you don't like the standard Fed designs. That type of realism just doesn't appeal your your sense of Aesthetics, but neither does abstract art appeal to me. This is very much like Cubism, instead of realism.

    It just doesn't belong.
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    A good example of what I mean would be to take a Tholian ship, slap a saucer on the front of it and call it a new Federations starship. You can still tell it's really a THolian vessel, not a Federation one, by the sum of it's parts - their shape and design fit, not into Federation styles and frameworks, but into Tholian ones.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    Do you get the feeling that the STDiscovery trailer was made to poll for Fan reactions so that they could decide whether or not to toss the whole project out before they even make the first film? And that they made the ship so ugly to deliberately tilt that poll into the negative so that they could refuse to finish the project?

    If so, they succeeded.

    Not they didn't. They made a ship far more appealing than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.

    I don't think you understand how aesthetics work. They're subjective not objective.​​
    In your opinion ;)

    To be fair, the Discovery is an iconic design, in as much as, a fair few have recognized the McQuarrie linneage, even if it's a case of the design only being notable for being what they didn't go with :D Personally speaking, I always liked the Excelsior and the Galaxy :D
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    Nick Meyers take on what "Star Trek: Discovery" should entail...

    http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek-discovery-news-why-wrath-khan-director-nicholas-meyer-will-bring-much-557811

    And a lot of interesting discussion about how he wrote and directed The Wrath of Khan.

    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Oh, that was full of all kinds of glee.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    Do you get the feeling that the STDiscovery trailer was made to poll for Fan reactions so that they could decide whether or not to toss the whole project out before they even make the first film? And that they made the ship so ugly to deliberately tilt that poll into the negative so that they could refuse to finish the project?

    If so, they succeeded.

    Not they didn't. They made a ship far more appealing than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.

    I don't think you understand how aesthetics work. They're subjective not objective.

    I'm a graphic designer. I know how aesthetics work. But one would have to be blind to state that the design 'works' in the Federation framework as it's barely a federation type ship...

    But each thing/group/faction in Star trek has a specific 'style' and the ship on STDiscovery not only doesn't have that style, it doesn't have any of the standards of the other ships used by the Federation. If you are going to look at it from an art angle, then instead of 'Realism', you're looking at an extremely blocky form of the 'Abstract', much like the public russian art of the '90s. The ship has all the right parts, but the whole is the sum of those parts and, well... the whole thing looks like a bunch of pieces stuck together from different ships, as if they don't belong. So as far as 'aesthetics', it doesn't really work. If I were to set up a Ferengi used-starship yard and put that on the lot, it'd never sell.

    As for the Excelsior and Galaxy, those are milestones of the Federation starship design. Most everything about them works for what they are supposed to be. It may be that you find Romulan or Klingon ships more appealing, but those are basically the same thing - visually. Romulans ships are usually smoother, while klingon ships are supposed to be more blocky. Their overall shaped, if slightly modified could be either Romulan or Klingon. That's their style.

    This ship, though, has the style of the Klingons, which isn't part of Federation design. Take a klingon ship, have it chase a saucer section, then ram that klingon ship up that saucer's backside, and Poof! you have their new ship for STDiscovery.

    Now I can't blame you if you don't like the standard Fed designs. That type of realism just doesn't appeal your your sense of Aesthetics, but neither does abstract art appeal to me. This is very much like Cubism, instead of realism.

    It just doesn't belong.

    That wall of text described the Defiant, not a ship with nacelles, a saucer, a secondary hull, and a distinct neck.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    *shrug*
    I said too much, but you got the point. And yes I was referring to the image of what you just described, since the Defiant really falls outside the standard ship design for large stereotyped federation ships, but the Galaxy and Excelsior do not. The Discovery just doesn't fit. You could take it to the extreme and say it does, but over all it's a square peg.

    still, the article mentioned by dave is worth reading.
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    Star Trek Discovery is not Real Trek...just getting a head start
    GwaoHAD.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*
    Fine, while you wait you can feast your eyes upon the sleek stylish lines of this classic ship:
    latest?cb=20110414050214&path-prefix=en
    :D You may resume rejoicing now. :D
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*
    Fine, while you wait you can feast your eyes upon the sleek stylish lines of this classic ship:
    latest?cb=20110414050214&path-prefix=en
    :D You may resume rejoicing now. :D

    :D
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    *shrug*
    I said too much, but you got the point. And yes I was referring to the image of what you just described, since the Defiant really falls outside the standard ship design for large stereotyped federation ships, but the Galaxy and Excelsior do not. The Discovery just doesn't fit. You could take it to the extreme and say it does, but over all it's a square peg.

    still, the article mentioned by dave is worth reading.
    I think what we see in the Defiant-class and similar designs like the Saber and Steamrunner is Starfleet's approach to combatant starships. Technically, they're all combatant ships, but the Connie/Excel/GCS/Intrepid lineage are multirole vessels and carry a lot of extra room around for their other jobs. The Galaxy-class is so big it even leaves several decks of the saucer with empty compartments so they can be bent to whatever purpose a given mission might need, e.g. additional quarters for transporting ground troops, or extra medical suites for humanitarian jobs.

    But the Defiant is a pure warship, and one designed to be fielded cheaply and in numbers at that. So they strip out all the extras and cram everything into the stardrive section. In turn, one of the things I like about STO's Avenger and Arbiter is that it's the Defiant philosophy applied to a capital ship. It's smaller than usual (roughly Connie sized IIRC) but carries greater firepower.
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*
    Fine, while you wait you can feast your eyes upon the sleek stylish lines of this classic ship:
    latest?cb=20110414050214&path-prefix=en
    :D You may resume rejoicing now. :D
    I believe that one was a freighter, not a Starfleet capital ship.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    tempted to pull out my 'Cargo Ship' again. :wink:
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*
    Fine, while you wait you can feast your eyes upon the sleek stylish lines of this classic ship:
    latest?cb=20110414050214&path-prefix=en
    :D You may resume rejoicing now. :D
    I believe that one was a freighter, not a Starfleet capital ship.
    True, but it was designed by the same group of people. The point was to demonstrate the level of variation used even in TOS era.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I usually agree with your point of view, @artan42, I'm just having some difficulty with this one. And I've still not read anything good about that ship design. I'd like to, but haven't. The general opinion has been the same as mine. *sigh*

    I have my issues with it (mainly the colour and the triangle hull) but I'm not willing to dismiss what is essential animated concept art because it's slightly different.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    Do you get the feeling that the STDiscovery trailer was made to poll for Fan reactions so that they could decide whether or not to toss the whole project out before they even make the first film? And that they made the ship so ugly to deliberately tilt that poll into the negative so that they could refuse to finish the project?

    If so, they succeeded.

    Not they didn't. They made a ship far more appealing than the Excelsior or the Galaxy.

    I don't think you understand how aesthetics work. They're subjective not objective.​​

    I'm a graphic designer. I know how aesthetics work. But one would have to be blind to state that the design 'works' in the Federation framework as it's barely a federation type ship...

    But each thing/group/faction in Star trek has a specific 'style' and the ship on STDiscovery not only doesn't have that style, it doesn't have any of the standards of the other ships used by the Federation. If you are going to look at it from an art angle, then instead of 'Realism', you're looking at an extremely blocky form of the 'Abstract', much like the public russian art of the '90s. The ship has all the right parts, but the whole is the sum of those parts and, well... the whole thing looks like a bunch of pieces stuck together from different ships, as if they don't belong. So as far as 'aesthetics', it doesn't really work. If I were to set up a Ferengi used-starship yard and put that on the lot, it'd never sell.

    As for the Excelsior and Galaxy, those are milestones of the Federation starship design. Most everything about them works for what they are supposed to be. It may be that you find Romulan or Klingon ships more appealing, but those are basically the same thing - visually. Romulans ships are usually smoother, while klingon ships are supposed to be more blocky. Their overall shaped, if slightly modified could be either Romulan or Klingon. That's their style.

    This ship, though, has the style of the Klingons, which isn't part of Federation design. Take a klingon ship, have it chase a saucer section, then ram that klingon ship up that saucer's backside, and Poof! you have their new ship for STDiscovery.

    Now I can't blame you if you don't like the standard Fed designs. That type of realism just doesn't appeal your your sense of Aesthetics, but neither does abstract art appeal to me. This is very much like Cubism, instead of realism.

    It just doesn't belong.
    DeskTop Publishing has been a hobby of mine (one I haven't really indulged in a few years, although I am now getting hooked on BOFF customization...) for nearly thirty years. Let's talk design... Design has rules, and designers each have their own style. Look at the watches designed by Gerald Genta, and even now, the watch designs inspired by his work. Signatures. Signatures are key...

    Messing with the starship customizer, I found something rather interesting...

    If you have a spare slot, give this little recipe a try:

    Miranda Hull
    Centaur Pylons
    Any nacelles will work, but I have ShiKahr's on mine...

    Another favorite design convention of the Star Trek franchise, is to turn stuff upside-down, so flip it upside down to view the bottom as if it were the top...

    The silhouette is unquestionably that of a Romulan T'Liss Class...

    Like you said, the Discovery is little more than someone with a starship customizer, and playing around with McQuarrie's concept design... It certainly doesn't fit... The idea of Gerald Genta doing a design for Rolex makes about as much sense as Henry Moore sculpting cubes...

    But... Ideas change... Compare the silhouette of the Intrepid Class, to the original Constitution Class... Or the original Constitution Class to the Defiant Class... Wildly different...

    There are rumors that what we've seen of the Discovery, isn't actually the finalized design, so fingers crossed, we'll wind up with something a little more in keeping with what we've seen with Federation design :D
    Post edited by marcusdkane on
  • wendysue53wendysue53 Member Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    I like the way you think. B)
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    wendysue53 wrote: »
    I like the way you think. B)
    B)

    Makes me wonder if whoever designed the Miranda Class was working on that principle, and started with the T'Liss as their base, because to be honest, it was a massive difference from the previously-seen Starfleet vessels ;)B)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Nah, I think they took a connie and rearranged the parts. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    Nah, I think they took a connie and rearranged the parts. :p
    Sure, they ditched the secondary hull, and the parts used are still Federation, but as mentioned, flip a T'Liss on it's head, bring the nacelles inboard with the straight-down pylons, and you have the Miranda ;)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,827 Arc User
    I can never remember the name of this Tier 6 ship class - but seriously, am I the only one who can see the resemblance here?

    Modern%20STO%20ship_zpsenhvvlmj.jpg​​
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I can never remember the name of this Tier 6 ship class - but seriously, am I the only one who can see the resemblance here?

    Modern%20STO%20ship_zpsenhvvlmj.jpg​​
    Given that I cannot see that image at all...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • ktonof1aqktonof1aq Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Balance of Terror was heavily inspired by The Enemy Below, a 1957 submarine movie. It was so close to the movie that I believe they had to pay some to the writer of The Enemy Below. Either way, great movie and great episode.

    Oh, and if you want to read about real life Captain's try any WW2 Submarine story including bios about or by Mush Morton, Edward Beach, TRIBBLE O'Kaine, etc.


  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I can never remember the name of this Tier 6 ship class - but seriously, am I the only one who can see the resemblance here?

    Modern%20STO%20ship_zpsenhvvlmj.jpg​​
    Resemblence to what?
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I can never remember the name of this Tier 6 ship class - but seriously, am I the only one who can see the resemblance here?

    Modern%20STO%20ship_zpsenhvvlmj.jpg

    Resemblance to the DSC ship? Then yes, I think you are pig-3.gif

    Because, seriously, because there is a triangle shape somewhere in it? Really?​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    oh now I see it. yeah, t6 galaxy
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
This discussion has been closed.