---
Anyway... more news about the new Star Trek show? If they want to start next year, when will they start casting actors?
Considering its supposed to be in front of us january, they've cast the actors and filmed at least a few full episodes and the pilot is likely in post atm.
Considering its supposed to be in front of us january, they've cast the actors and filmed at least a few full episodes and the pilot is likely in post atm.
Yup . Somewhere there are some huge Star Trek nerds doing the FX right now and loving their jobs. Or so I like to think. Honestly, they've done a surprisingly good job of information control. I'm as curious to learn more as anybody at this point. I'd like to have a couple story points either confirmed or well and truly buried.
...Actually, I should be attending the ST:Beyond release event in San Diego - maybe they'll have a clip or preview of some sort as part of that.
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Hehe, there are a lot of confusing things about French.
Anyways, learning words through osmosis is over rated. Sure it works, I learned a fair bit of Japanese simply by watching anime with the original dialog and subtitles. But you don't really understand it. It's more guesswork than anything.
Absolutely so. It is the most organic way to learn, but it does mean 'learning without understanding the rules'... I've started learning Welsh, and there are definitely a few examples along those lines I could give...
Maes parcio = Car park. But. 'Maes' means 'place' not 'car', so the literal translation of maes parcio, is 'place park'
Dim parcio = No parking. But. 'Dim' is actually the number zero, so the literal translation, is 'zero park'
Dim diolch = No thanks/no thank you. But as above, 'dim' means 'zero', so the literal, is 'zero thanks'
The letter h, is a letter h... For example, 'heol' (pronounced he-oll) means 'road'
The letter i, is mostly a letter i, such as in 'diolch' (pronounced dee-och (as in Scottich loch) but after the letter s, it becomes a h... Siarad, meaning 'speak', is pronounced 'sha-rrad' (with a rolled 'r') And there is still an exception to this rule! The Welsh word 'sir', meaning a county, is pronounced 'sear', not 'shrr'... O_O
I have absolutely no idea why the number zero is used instead of a negative, or why the i can be an h, I simply know that that's how it's spoken/written...
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
We have that over here as well. We're quite advanced with the moving pictures on a small screen.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Absolutely so. It is the most organic way to learn, but it does mean 'learning without understanding the rules'... I've started learning Welsh, and there are definitely a few examples along those lines I could give...
Maes parcio = Car park. But. 'Maes' means 'place' not 'car', so the literal translation of maes parcio, is 'place park'
Dim parcio = No parking. But. 'Dim' is actually the number zero, so the literal translation, is 'zero park'
Dim diolch = No thanks/no thank you. But as above, 'dim' means 'zero', so the literal, is 'zero thanks'
The letter h, is a letter h... For example, 'heol' (pronounced he-oll) means 'road'
The letter i, is mostly a letter i, such as in 'diolch' (pronounced dee-och (as in Scottich loch) but after the letter s, it becomes a h... Siarad, meaning 'speak', is pronounced 'sha-rrad' (with a rolled 'r') And there is still an exception to this rule! The Welsh word 'sir', meaning a county, is pronounced 'sear', not 'shrr'... O_O
I have absolutely no idea why the number zero is used instead of a negative, or why the i can be an h, I simply know that that's how it's spoken/written...
I learned Swedish last winter (A1 basic course). Swedes have unwritten and, according to my teacher, non explainable reasons for modifying a letter's pronounciation at will, just because. The only way to get it right is to simply learn it this way. A great example is the third person plural pronoun "de" which is, for whatever reason, pronounced "dom".
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat . Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet. Remember, after all, that in Star Trek, cultures aren't merely planetary, for starfaring species they're racial (all Klingons love "opera", all Ferengi are money-grubbing racial supremacists, all Cardassians are sneaky and underhanded, etc). Heck, they even hit humans with that stick in TNG - humans, one and all, are intimately acquainted with what we today call "classical music", and listen to that nearly exclusively (Riker's regarded as an odd duck for liking New Orleans big-band jazz). The country singer they found frozen from the early 21st century was looking forward to his amazing new career, because no one in the entire United Federation of Planets was familiar with country music.
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
I grew up watching Sesame Street (and other American imports) and this is why my 'inner monologue'/thoughts, in terms of vocabulary/spelling etc, are in American English...
Absolutely so. It is the most organic way to learn, but it does mean 'learning without understanding the rules'... I've started learning Welsh, and there are definitely a few examples along those lines I could give...
Maes parcio = Car park. But. 'Maes' means 'place' not 'car', so the literal translation of maes parcio, is 'place park'
Dim parcio = No parking. But. 'Dim' is actually the number zero, so the literal translation, is 'zero park'
Dim diolch = No thanks/no thank you. But as above, 'dim' means 'zero', so the literal, is 'zero thanks'
The letter h, is a letter h... For example, 'heol' (pronounced he-oll) means 'road'
The letter i, is mostly a letter i, such as in 'diolch' (pronounced dee-och (as in Scottich loch) but after the letter s, it becomes a h... Siarad, meaning 'speak', is pronounced 'sha-rrad' (with a rolled 'r') And there is still an exception to this rule! The Welsh word 'sir', meaning a county, is pronounced 'sear', not 'shrr'... O_O
I have absolutely no idea why the number zero is used instead of a negative, or why the i can be an h, I simply know that that's how it's spoken/written...
I learned Swedish last winter (A1 basic course). Swedes have unwritten and, according to my teacher, non explainable reasons for modifying a letter's pronounciation at will, just because. The only way to get it right is to simply learn it this way. A great example is the third person plural pronoun "de" which is, for whatever reason, pronounced "dom".
Yeah, in Welsh, the letters c/g are somewhat interchangable for ease of pronunciation. For example:
Cwrw and gwrw both mean ale/beer/lager etc... A dog is refered to as 'ci' (key) two dogs are 'die gi' (gee (hard 'g') I was speaking to someone the other day about this, and he couldn't really explain why either...
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat. Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
A bit like Klingon
To be fair, the lass who started speaking to me in Welsh the other day, when I said in very simple Welsh 'dim siarad cymraeg' (I) don't speak Welsh, said sorry and began the conversation again in English, which was nice of her That said, this is definitely a predominantly Welsh-speaking area/community, and as an in-comer, it's only polite for me to learn the gibberish language as much as possible
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet. Remember, after all, that in Star Trek, cultures aren't merely planetary, for starfaring species they're racial (all Klingons love "opera", all Ferengi are money-grubbing racial supremacists, all Cardassians are sneaky and underhanded, etc). Heck, they even hit humans with that stick in TNG - humans, one and all, are intimately acquainted with what we today call "classical music", and listen to that nearly exclusively (Riker's regarded as an odd duck for liking New Orleans big-band jazz). The country singer they found frozen from the early 21st century was looking forward to his amazing new career, because no one in the entire United Federation of Planets was familiar with country music.
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
I'm just wondering if they necessarily had a written language, or if they simply used story-telling to communicate history etc Although it doesn't hold up too well if examined in too much depth, it was interesting to see examples of very different customs/thought processes in an alien race, compared to say Klingons/Romulans etc...
---
Anyway... more news about the new Star Trek show? If they want to start next year, when will they start casting actors?
Considering its supposed to be in front of us january, they've cast the actors and filmed at least a few full episodes and the pilot is likely in post atm.
Not even close...
The moment they decide who the new cast is it will be all over the Internetz.
Just like with the then new TNG cast back in 1987, Entertainment Tonight had the exclusive look at those folks the week they were announced.
They are most likely just now beginning to put together the main character call-sheets to hand out to Actor's Agents.
They are probably just now beginning to lay out ideas for sets and locations.
Again, once production actually begins, it will be All Over the Internetz.
They won't actually begin filming episodes until late summer at the earliest.
CBS has said that the show will have a regular weekly distribution, so there is no need for the production team to have an entire season ready upon launch.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat . Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
Jag tycker om svenska. Det är bortåt like tyska.
Both probably sound a bit Klingon to English ears, though. With Welsh, I'm completely baffled how "Cwrw" can be a word, though @marcusdkane. I mean I can say something like "Wachstuchtischdecke" in German, but that doesn't come close to Cwrw
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet.
But how? How would they learn the tale if their language consists only of the metaphors?
Are they basically first learning a metaphor-less language, and then advance to the metaphor-based language? An then forget the metaphor-less language? How did the universal translator pick up the metaphor-less language, if no one is actually using it like that? Why couldn't the Tamarians engage the Enterprise crew in the pre-metaphorical child-speak they use for their children to explain the language?
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
We have that over here as well. We're quite advanced with the moving pictures on a small screen.
Do you also have Internet?
Mustrum "The reason I picked British was to name one English-speaking nationality, and who better than the one that invented the langue" Ridcully
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat . Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
Jag tycker om svenska. Det är bortåt like tyska.
Both probably sound a bit Klingon to English ears, though. With Welsh, I'm completely baffled how "Cwrw" can be a word, though@marcusdkane. I mean I can say something like "Wachstuchtischdecke" in German, but that doesn't come close to Cwrw
'C's are always pronounced as 'k', and in this word, the 'w's are pronounced like modified 'u's... Two syllables, and the 'u's are 'short' but with a definite 'h twist' on them... Closest I could write it phonetically, would be 'kuuh-rruuh'. In some Welsh words, the 'w' is almost like the 'ui' sound as in 'liquid'... Again, I suspect it's one of those things one simply absorbs, rather than 'class-room learning'... (my grasp of the language is about the same as that of a toddler... ie counting from 1-10, and simple words like bird, cat, dog, fish etc...) Other words are sinking in, such as brecwast (breakfast) spwriel (rubbish) araf (slow) A single 'f' is always pronounced as a 'v' and a double 'f' (ff) is pronounced as an 'f' would be in English... Ie Ffion, is pronounced Fee-onn, where hufen (cream) is pronounced 'hih-venn'
[Edit]
Equally, written Welsh is actually quite easy to read once you know how... Double 'll' (when not in a name such as William) is always pronounced as a kind of hissing sound (tip of tongue to back of front teeth and blow round it at the front of the mouth) It also simplifies the 'stress/strength' of 'th'... For example... In English, 'the' and 'think' both have a different 'th' sound, and switching that between the words, would sound pretty silly... I will call these soft ie 'the' and hard ie 'think'. If you ever see 'dd', that is always the soft form, 'th' is always the hard form. For example, Gwynedd is pronounced 'gwineth' (not Gwyneth, as in Paltrow) and certainly not 'gwin-edd'
Hehe, there are a lot of confusing things about French.
Anyways, learning words through osmosis is over rated. Sure it works, I learned a fair bit of Japanese simply by watching anime with the original dialog and subtitles. But you don't really understand it. It's more guesswork than anything.
You were not a baby when you started watchnig animé. And watching animé is still not the same as interacting with real people.
The point is that osmosis is a very inconsistent way to learn words. It might result in missed nuance or the wrong meaning entirely. Then there's how many words can have multiple meanings. You can only learn via osmosis what you hear. So if you only hear one meaning of a word that is the only one you will learn.
Another issue with a language based entirely on metaphor is that it lacks precision. The Sheliak would go insane trying to negotiate with Tamarians... How would you say "Rotate bolt d 5½ turns counter clockwise."?
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
I grew up watching Sesame Street (and other American imports) and this is why my 'inner monologue'/thoughts, in terms of vocabulary/spelling etc, are in American English...
That explains so much. I just thought you didn't know how to change you spell checker language .
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat. Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
A bit like Klingon
To be fair, the lass who started speaking to me in Welsh the other day, when I said in very simple Welsh 'dim siarad cymraeg' (I) don't speak Welsh, said sorry and began the conversation again in English, which was nice of her That said, this is definitely a predominantly Welsh-speaking area/community, and as an in-comer, it's only polite for me to learn the gibberish language as much as possible
Oh no you don't. People who's inner dialogue is in American don't get to say 'lass'. You'll have to make do with 'doll' I'm afraid.
Akh, Swedish, Welsh, both sound like explosions in the back of the throat . Just politely spend your time telling the Swedes and Welsh to learn English if they want us to talk to them.
Jag tycker om svenska. Det är bortåt like tyska.
Both probably sound a bit Klingon to English ears, though. With Welsh, I'm completely baffled how "Cwrw" can be a word, though marcusdkane. I mean I can say something like "Wachstuchtischdecke" in German, but that doesn't come close to Cwrw
Funnily enough I could understand that as I picked up enough of a working reading comprehension of Faeroes for my dissertation, though it does amuse me that almost no language has a word for Germany that is in any way similar to any other.
And nothing comes close to Welsh. Their approach to the vowel problem is just to stick 'y's' in things, sometimes multiple ones for no discernible reason, sometimes they even expect you to pronounce a double 'll' as 'Cla', ugh.
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet.
But how? How would they learn the tale if their language consists only of the metaphors?
Are they basically first learning a metaphor-less language, and then advance to the metaphor-based language? An then forget the metaphor-less language? How did the universal translator pick up the metaphor-less language, if no one is actually using it like that? Why couldn't the Tamarians engage the Enterprise crew in the pre-metaphorical child-speak they use for their children to explain the language?
If your aunt comes by repeatedly and says, something like "I brought you Temba, his arms wide", the kid will learn that "Temba, his arms wide" must mean a gift. It will never that Temba is a person from the context. Just like a British kid doesn't know about g, i, f or t, really, until the parents or teachers teach it about the alphabet and writing.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
American kids watch sesame street.
We have that over here as well. We're quite advanced with the moving pictures on a small screen.
Do you also have Internet?
Mustrum "The reason I picked British was to name one English-speaking nationality, and who better than the one that invented the langue" Ridcully
The internet? I'm not sure. I'm currently faxing off to London to ask for some advice on that. Providing the transatlantic phone line is still operational I should have the answer back to you within the month.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The internet? I'm not sure. I'm currently faxing off to London to ask for some advice on that. Providing the transatlantic phone line is still operational I should have the answer back to you within the month.
You don't need the transatlantic phone line to reach Germany, I think. But I am looking forward to your pigeon.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Oh no you don't. People who's inner dialogue is in American don't get to say 'lass'. You'll have to make do with 'doll' I'm afraid.
Well, after last week's 'excitement' I thought it was safer than re-using the W Word (And given her age, 'girl' may have sounded like I was cruising schoolyards, and 'woman' would definitely be insulting to a younger lady Political Correctness... Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
And nothing comes close to Welsh. Their approach to the vowel problem is just to stick 'y's' in things, sometimes multiple ones for no discernible reason, sometimes they even expect you to pronounce a double 'll' as 'Cla', ugh.
No no, not 'cla'... As above, it's a 'hissing sound with a hint of an L on the end'... Tip of the tongue to the back of your front teeth, then blow around your tongue... For example... Llandudno... Not pronounced 'Lan-dud-no', or 'Clan-dud-no', but 'hhlann-did-noh'. If you try and say it with a Welsh accent, it makes more sense (and needs the accent to be faked to get the correct vowel sounds in several words, or rolling the r easily...)
Heh...
Isn't it time to move the Language Lessons to a new thread?
They're just a tad bit off the discussion at hand.
(go ahead and try to translate that)
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet. Remember, after all, that in Star Trek, cultures aren't merely planetary, for starfaring species they're racial (all Klingons love "opera", all Ferengi are money-grubbing racial supremacists, all Cardassians are sneaky and underhanded, etc). Heck, they even hit humans with that stick in TNG - humans, one and all, are intimately acquainted with what we today call "classical music", and listen to that nearly exclusively (Riker's regarded as an odd duck for liking New Orleans big-band jazz). The country singer they found frozen from the early 21st century was looking forward to his amazing new career, because no one in the entire United Federation of Planets was familiar with country music.
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
I think Star Trek's obsessions with Shakespeare, classical, and jazz frankly has more to do with the fact those are in the public domain. They don't need to pay royalties to whoever handels Handle's estate (wait, that's backwards ) like they would if they wanted to play "Highway to Hell" on the show.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Heh...
Isn't it time to move the Language Lessons to a new thread?
They're just a tad bit off the discussion at hand.
(go ahead and try to translate that)
<chuckle>
Why? It's not like there's anything in any way confirmed about the new series released to discuss... This is way more interesting than theory-crafting what the show may or may not be like...
The internet? I'm not sure. I'm currently faxing off to London to ask for some advice on that. Providing the transatlantic phone line is still operational I should have the answer back to you within the month.
You don't need the transatlantic phone line to reach Germany, I think. But I am looking forward to your pigeon.
Well here comes the express falcon. Germany! Everything I've ever just kinds assumed has been shattered .
Oh no you don't. People who's inner dialogue is in American don't get to say 'lass'. You'll have to make do with 'doll' I'm afraid.
Well, after last week's 'excitement' I thought it was safer than re-using the W Word (And given her age, 'girl' may have sounded like I was cruising schoolyards, and 'woman' would definitely be insulting to a younger lady Political Correctness... Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
I think the best way to solve a problem like that would be to ask any particular female forum member if she offended on behalf of all females everywhere for such an archaic word. Because apparently people can get offended on other people's behalf nowadays.
Dame maybe? Does that work or will people assume you're trying to marry them off to a knight?
And nothing comes close to Welsh. Their approach to the vowel problem is just to stick 'y's' in things, sometimes multiple ones for no discernible reason, sometimes they even expect you to pronounce a double 'll' as 'Cla', ugh.
No no, not 'cla'... As above, it's a 'hissing sound with a hint of an L on the end'... Tip of the tongue to the back of your front teeth, then blow around your tongue... For example... Llandudno... Not pronounced 'Lan-dud-no', or 'Clan-dud-no', but 'hhlann-did-noh'. If you try and say it with a Welsh accent, it makes more sense (and needs the accent to be faked to get the correct vowel sounds in several words, or rolling the r easily...)
I know how it's pronounced, I just didn't know how to write it phonetically. And if we're getting technical it's Hhlaan-DID-noh. after St. Tudno, after whom the town was named.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I think the best way to solve a problem like that would be to ask any particular female forum member if she offended on behalf of all females everywhere for such an archaic word. Because apparently people can get offended on other people's behalf nowadays.
Dame maybe? Does that work or will people assume you're trying to marry them off to a knight?
Yup, way too much of that kind of faux-outrage online... I wouldn't mind if it's over something important, but most of the time, I doubt people even care about the cause they're championing Either way, she was a female in her early twenties, who was friendly enough to start a conversation with a complete stranger, and kind enough to shift language when necessary
I know how it's pronounced, I just didn't know how to write it phonetically. And if we're getting technical it's Hhlaan-DID-noh. after St. Tudno, after whom the town was named.
Fair enough, I just wondered when you wrote 'cla'... Nice town
Well here comes the express falcon. Germany! Everything I've ever just kinds assumed has been shattered .
I wouldn't send the Falcon down here, it'll get shredded by a windmill. Just use a cow. That's what I do, anyways.
I think the best way to solve a problem like that would be to ask any particular female forum member if she offended on behalf of all females everywhere for such an archaic word. Because apparently people can get offended on other people's behalf nowadays.
Dame maybe? Does that work or will people assume you're trying to marry them off to a knight?
I'm pretty sure I don't count, but I take very kindly to animal names. But as I said, I'm pretty sure others won't My Wife likes "Fräulein" which should be equivalent though. But she's not on the forum nor is this common as much as it might sound like a cliché (modern German doesn't use it any more, regardless of the women's family situation). So yeah, better not generalize. Anything
I know how it's pronounced, I just didn't know how to write it phonetically. And if we're getting technical it's Hhlaan-DID-noh. after St. Tudno, after whom the town was named.
He, my only exposure to Welsh are the Little Britain characters of Llanddewi Brefi...
Post edited by angrytarg on
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
"Dame" and "doll" only work if you're an American in the 1930s. Today in the US, a "doll" is a humanoid child's toy, usually of the non-animated variety, and "Dame" is what we call Judi Dench. (I understand there are a fair number of Dames wandering around Britain - we don't usually have them here, except in the sense of an elderly social leader sometimes being referred to as the "grand dame" of her particular set.)
"Young lady" works if you're worried about offending anyone, and as for "lass" being appropriated - well, recall what James Nicoli said about "the purity of the English language"...
Comments
Yup
...Actually, I should be attending the ST:Beyond release event in San Diego - maybe they'll have a clip or preview of some sort as part of that.
Am I missing something? Why British kid? Do American ones come with a built in understanding of the letters g, i, f, and t?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Maes parcio = Car park. But. 'Maes' means 'place' not 'car', so the literal translation of maes parcio, is 'place park'
Dim parcio = No parking. But. 'Dim' is actually the number zero, so the literal translation, is 'zero park'
Dim diolch = No thanks/no thank you. But as above, 'dim' means 'zero', so the literal, is 'zero thanks'
The letter h, is a letter h... For example, 'heol' (pronounced he-oll) means 'road'
The letter i, is mostly a letter i, such as in 'diolch' (pronounced dee-och (as in Scottich loch) but after the letter s, it becomes a h... Siarad, meaning 'speak', is pronounced 'sha-rrad' (with a rolled 'r') And there is still an exception to this rule! The Welsh word 'sir', meaning a county, is pronounced 'sear', not 'shrr'... O_O
I have absolutely no idea why the number zero is used instead of a negative, or why the i can be an h, I simply know that that's how it's spoken/written...
We have that over here as well. We're quite advanced with the moving pictures on a small screen.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I learned Swedish last winter (A1 basic course). Swedes have unwritten and, according to my teacher, non explainable reasons for modifying a letter's pronounciation at will, just because. The only way to get it right is to simply learn it this way. A great example is the third person plural pronoun "de" which is, for whatever reason, pronounced "dom".
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
Yeah, in Welsh, the letters c/g are somewhat interchangable for ease of pronunciation. For example:
Cwrw and gwrw both mean ale/beer/lager etc... A dog is refered to as 'ci' (key) two dogs are 'die gi' (gee (hard 'g') I was speaking to someone the other day about this, and he couldn't really explain why either...
A bit like Klingon
To be fair, the lass who started speaking to me in Welsh the other day, when I said in very simple Welsh 'dim siarad cymraeg' (I) don't speak Welsh, said sorry and began the conversation again in English, which was nice of her
I'm just wondering if they necessarily had a written language, or if they simply used story-telling to communicate history etc
The moment they decide who the new cast is it will be all over the Internetz.
Just like with the then new TNG cast back in 1987, Entertainment Tonight had the exclusive look at those folks the week they were announced.
They are most likely just now beginning to put together the main character call-sheets to hand out to Actor's Agents.
They are probably just now beginning to lay out ideas for sets and locations.
Again, once production actually begins, it will be All Over the Internetz.
They won't actually begin filming episodes until late summer at the earliest.
CBS has said that the show will have a regular weekly distribution, so there is no need for the production team to have an entire season ready upon launch.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Jag tycker om svenska. Det är bortåt like tyska.
Both probably sound a bit Klingon to English ears, though. With Welsh, I'm completely baffled how "Cwrw" can be a word, though @marcusdkane. I mean I can say something like "Wachstuchtischdecke" in German, but that doesn't come close to Cwrw
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Are they basically first learning a metaphor-less language, and then advance to the metaphor-based language? An then forget the metaphor-less language? How did the universal translator pick up the metaphor-less language, if no one is actually using it like that? Why couldn't the Tamarians engage the Enterprise crew in the pre-metaphorical child-speak they use for their children to explain the language?
Do you also have Internet?
Mustrum "The reason I picked British was to name one English-speaking nationality, and who better than the one that invented the langue" Ridcully
'C's are always pronounced as 'k', and in this word, the 'w's are pronounced like modified 'u's... Two syllables, and the 'u's are 'short' but with a definite 'h twist' on them... Closest I could write it phonetically, would be 'kuuh-rruuh'. In some Welsh words, the 'w' is almost like the 'ui' sound as in 'liquid'... Again, I suspect it's one of those things one simply absorbs, rather than 'class-room learning'... (my grasp of the language is about the same as that of a toddler... ie counting from 1-10, and simple words like bird, cat, dog, fish etc...) Other words are sinking in, such as brecwast (breakfast) spwriel (rubbish) araf (slow) A single 'f' is always pronounced as a 'v' and a double 'f' (ff) is pronounced as an 'f' would be in English... Ie Ffion, is pronounced Fee-onn, where hufen (cream) is pronounced 'hih-venn'
[Edit]
Equally, written Welsh is actually quite easy to read once you know how... Double 'll' (when not in a name such as William) is always pronounced as a kind of hissing sound (tip of tongue to back of front teeth and blow round it at the front of the mouth) It also simplifies the 'stress/strength' of 'th'... For example... In English, 'the' and 'think' both have a different 'th' sound, and switching that between the words, would sound pretty silly... I will call these soft ie 'the' and hard ie 'think'. If you ever see 'dd', that is always the soft form, 'th' is always the hard form. For example, Gwynedd is pronounced 'gwineth' (not Gwyneth, as in Paltrow) and certainly not 'gwin-edd'
Another issue with a language based entirely on metaphor is that it lacks precision. The Sheliak would go insane trying to negotiate with Tamarians... How would you say "Rotate bolt d 5½ turns counter clockwise."?
My character Tsin'xing
That explains so much. I just thought you didn't know how to change you spell checker language
Oh no you don't. People who's inner dialogue is in American don't get to say 'lass'. You'll have to make do with 'doll' I'm afraid.
Funnily enough I could understand that as I picked up enough of a working reading comprehension of Faeroes for my dissertation, though it does amuse me that almost no language has a word for Germany that is in any way similar to any other.
And nothing comes close to Welsh. Their approach to the vowel problem is just to stick 'y's' in things, sometimes multiple ones for no discernible reason, sometimes they even expect you to pronounce a double 'll' as 'Cla', ugh.
The internet? I'm not sure. I'm currently faxing off to London to ask for some advice on that. Providing the transatlantic phone line is still operational I should have the answer back to you within the month.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Well, after last week's 'excitement' I thought it was safer than re-using the W Word
PS She wasn't dressed like this either...
Isn't it time to move the Language Lessons to a new thread?
They're just a tad bit off the discussion at hand.
(go ahead and try to translate that)
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I think Star Trek's obsessions with Shakespeare, classical, and jazz frankly has more to do with the fact those are in the public domain. They don't need to pay royalties to whoever handels Handle's estate (wait, that's backwards
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Why? It's not like there's anything in any way confirmed about the new series released to discuss... This is way more interesting than theory-crafting what the show may or may not be like...
Well here comes the express falcon. Germany! Everything I've ever just kinds assumed has been shattered
I think the best way to solve a problem like that would be to ask any particular female forum member if she offended on behalf of all females everywhere for such an archaic word. Because apparently people can get offended on other people's behalf nowadays.
Dame maybe? Does that work or will people assume you're trying to marry them off to a knight?
I know how it's pronounced, I just didn't know how to write it phonetically. And if we're getting technical it's Hhlaan-DID-noh. after St. Tudno, after whom the town was named.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Fair enough, I just wondered when you wrote 'cla'...
^this
I wouldn't send the Falcon down here, it'll get shredded by a windmill. Just use a cow. That's what I do, anyways.
I'm pretty sure I don't count, but I take very kindly to animal names. But as I said, I'm pretty sure others won't
He, my only exposure to Welsh are the Little Britain characters of Llanddewi Brefi...
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"Young lady" works if you're worried about offending anyone, and as for "lass" being appropriated - well, recall what James Nicoli said about "the purity of the English language"...