Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet. Remember, after all, that in Star Trek, cultures aren't merely planetary, for starfaring species they're racial (all Klingons love "opera", all Ferengi are money-grubbing racial supremacists, all Cardassians are sneaky and underhanded, etc). Heck, they even hit humans with that stick in TNG - humans, one and all, are intimately acquainted with what we today call "classical music", and listen to that nearly exclusively (Riker's regarded as an odd duck for liking New Orleans big-band jazz). The country singer they found frozen from the early 21st century was looking forward to his amazing new career, because no one in the entire United Federation of Planets was familiar with country music.
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
I think Star Trek's obsessions with Shakespeare, classical, and jazz frankly has more to do with the fact those are in the public domain. They don't need to pay royalties to whoever handels Handle's estate (wait, that's backwards ) like they would if they wanted to play "Highway to Hell" on the show.
Indeed. They got into some kind of issue over using Sherlock Holmes for Data's Holodeck adventures, after all.
And since copyright gets extended all the time, it seems not unlikely that you either have to join a mega-media-corporation like Disney, or will be forever forced to resort to the "classics".
Or maybe at some point the legislators get to their senses. Hah.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Presumably Tamaranian children are all taught the tales from infancy, just as everyone here recognizes the concept of "Juliet on the balcony" because we've all either read or seen a production of Romeo and Juliet. Remember, after all, that in Star Trek, cultures aren't merely planetary, for starfaring species they're racial (all Klingons love "opera", all Ferengi are money-grubbing racial supremacists, all Cardassians are sneaky and underhanded, etc). Heck, they even hit humans with that stick in TNG - humans, one and all, are intimately acquainted with what we today call "classical music", and listen to that nearly exclusively (Riker's regarded as an odd duck for liking New Orleans big-band jazz). The country singer they found frozen from the early 21st century was looking forward to his amazing new career, because no one in the entire United Federation of Planets was familiar with country music.
Similarly, all Tamaranians grow up on exactly the same tales, told exactly the same way, because otherwise their language simply would not work. They don't need to learn as adults what happened at Tanagra with Darmok and Jalad, because they heard the story from their grandparents when they were babies.
I think Star Trek's obsessions with Shakespeare, classical, and jazz frankly has more to do with the fact those are in the public domain. They don't need to pay royalties to whoever handels Handle's estate (wait, that's backwards ) like they would if they wanted to play "Highway to Hell" on the show.
Indeed. They got into some kind of issue over using Sherlock Holmes for Data's Holodeck adventures, after all.
And since copyright gets extended all the time, it seems not unlikely that you either have to join a mega-media-corporation like Disney, or will be forever forced to resort to the "classics".
Or maybe at some point the legislators get to their senses. Hah.
"This Congress, Your Honor?"
(actual quote from a US Supreme Court hearing a couple years ago)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think the best way to solve a problem like that would be to ask any particular female forum member if she offended on behalf of all females everywhere for such an archaic word. Because apparently people can get offended on other people's behalf nowadays.
Dame maybe? Does that work or will people assume you're trying to marry them off to a knight?
I'm pretty sure I don't count, but I take very kindly to animal names. But as I said, I'm pretty sure others won't My Wife likes "Fräulein" which should be equivalent though. But she's not on the forum nor is this common as much as it might sound like a cliché (modern German doesn't use it any more, regardless of the women's family situation). So yeah, better not generalize. Anything
When did that change? I don't remember it being like that in 1999.... although I remember fräulein being considered something of a diminutive. Thus most appropriate for a teenager or something.
It's not a case of it being derailed, but how many times do you expect folks to keep saying "I think it'll be like this..." "I want to see this..." "I hope it's not going to be like..." without official releases to actually discuss... It's theory-crafting which is a waste of time to think, let alone read... Conversations find their own way... I'm sure once something more concrete is revealed by the powers that be, people will jump back on topic
Rather than hijack this thread, why not just open your own?
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It's not a case of it being derailed, but how many times do you expect folks to keep saying "I think it'll be like this..." "I want to see this..." "I hope it's not going to be like..." without official releases to actually discuss... It's theory-crafting which is a waste of time to think, let alone read... Conversations find their own way... I'm sure once something more concrete is revealed by the powers that be, people will jump back on topic
I dont, I expect them to let the topic rest until there is new information AND
If we let the topic rest with no new information, by the time there's anything meaningful to say (which there hasn't even been yet), this thread will be resting somewhere around page 15 along with all the other threads abandoned because someone decided they were the Topic Police. It would make more sense to start a new thread when that occurs, as you'd have to anyway.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
When did that change? I don't remember it being like that in 1999.... although I remember fräulein being considered something of a diminutive. Thus most appropriate for a teenager or something.
It changed in 1972 under behalf of then minister of internal affairs Genscher and in 1954 it already became "optional" (the chancellor "granted" women the right to choose which way they wanted to be adressed in official correspodence). Today you don't use it anymore and if you do it is usually considered condescending. In the 70s the women's rights movement pointed out that the use of Fräulein would imply immaturity in unmarried women and they are right at least to some degree. I consider myself a feminist although I personally don't see any immedeate problems from the use of language. For example as a English speaking person this is probably not as common but German uses gendered grammar. In the German gender rights movement to the present day the use of masculine, feminine and neutered forms is a hot topic. Back in the 70s we all wanted more feminine forms whereas today with regards to the Inter and Trans community people want more neutered forms. I never took offense with grammatical genders as I have a different point of view on language. I don't care wether I'm adressed in a masculine, feminine or neutered way and the discussion about the use of language is in my opinion rather distracting from the actual concrete problems we have - for example, as a homosexual you're still not able to marry in Germany. There's the "not really" equivalent but officially I can't call my wife "my wife" if I wanted to because for some reason it's the governments business to uphold the value of "families" with considerable juristical consequences. But rejoice, people include undeerscores, asterisks and a feminization in words so everyone can feel respected. Yay. Not.
Sorry, that was a major derailing right here Point is, aside from a very few "reservations" of local language traditions you don't use "Fräulein" any more. Today it's mostly used in either an ironic or artistic fasion or just because you like how it sounds without any hidden meaning and if the person you're adressing is fine with it. Many people would consider it rude but many people also would cosnider it rude being adressed with animal names as I pointed out earlier, soo... it's best to not generalize
It's not a case of it being derailed, but how many times do you expect folks to keep saying "I think it'll be like this..." "I want to see this..." "I hope it's not going to be like..." without official releases to actually discuss... It's theory-crafting which is a waste of time to think, let alone read... Conversations find their own way... I'm sure once something more concrete is revealed by the powers that be, people will jump back on topic
I cocnur. Of course if a mod would call order and forbid further derailing that would be fine, but I see that disussions just evolve on their own and as pointed out, right now there is nothing you can say about the show - it's difficult if people open topics years in advance before any information but baseless rumours exist. Also, since the OP is no longer with us you'd want to create a new topic once we have something to build on anyway. Also, I'd estimate half () of the thread already consists of topics simply stating "stop talking, back to topic!" without offering anything to go back on topic. Most relevant thing we have in the new HP ad and I like to point out how terrible those uniforms are
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Rather than hijack this thread, why not just open your own?
Several points there:
First of all, the topic arose organically out of the topic conversation, and from someone other than myself...
Secondly, the topic is certainly obscure enough to not necessarily attract attention in it's own thread, so it's easier to allow the topic to continue so people who want to participate can...
Thirdly, the thread's original topic, can't realistically go further till new information is released by CBS, so what do youexpect folk to do? Sit around and say 'Good day, Sir' or engage in more theory-crafting just to prevent the thread going off the main page and thus falling under the necro-clause? There are already more than enough 'random' threads on the forum...
Forthly, the topic under discussion is significantly more educational than the argumentative debates which have derailed other threads (ironically, usually ignited by this thread's now-departed OP) What's your beef with educational conversation? That it's 'off topic'? Grow up...
It's not a case of it being derailed, but how many times do you expect folks to keep saying "I think it'll be like this..." "I want to see this..." "I hope it's not going to be like..." without official releases to actually discuss... It's theory-crafting which is a waste of time to think, let alone read... Conversations find their own way... I'm sure once something more concrete is revealed by the powers that be, people will jump back on topic
I dont, I expect them to let the topic rest until there is new information AND
And so the thread goes inactive and would wind up being a necro-thread when new information is released by CBS. If you don't want to participate in the conversation (not even an argumentative debate) then don't. But don't be a passive-aggressive mini-mod trying to tell people what they can and can't say...
Oh come on. The show will practically be OUT before the thread is well and truly damned as necromancy. It's not necessary to yammer in it hourly.
I dropped by, saw there were 25 new posts and for one brief foolish moment thought something actually pertinent to the show had fallen into our grasp to drive such a hubbub.
According to the article about the most recent writing hire, filming begins in September. For the chronally-challenged, that's in three months' time, or around ninety days. That, presumably, is when they'll tell us about things like casting, setting, etc.
The necro rule is thirty days.
You do the math.
Now, I for one was finding the discussion of linguistics interesting and enlightening. Is there anything further on that topic, or have we run out of things to say about it?
According to the article about the most recent writing hire, filming begins in September. For the chronally-challenged, that's in three months' time, or around ninety days. That, presumably, is when they'll tell us about things like casting, setting, etc.
The necro rule is thirty days.
You do the math.
Now, I for one was finding the discussion of linguistics interesting and enlightening. Is there anything further on that topic, or have we run out of things to say about it?
When written in Welsh, tîm (my name's Tim) means 'team' and is pronounced thus (the '^' above the 'i' lengthens it into an 'ee' sound)
As I said, then let it die and create another thread about Trek Linguistics.
So that folks who are actually looking for new information about Trek-2017, don't have to wade though your particular discussion that has nothing to do with the title of the thread and find NO NEW INFORMATION.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
For example as a English speaking person this is probably not as common but German uses gendered grammar. In the German gender rights movement to the present day the use of masculine, feminine and neutered forms is a hot topic. Back in the 70s we all wanted more feminine forms whereas today with regards to the Inter and Trans community people want more neutered forms. I never took offense with grammatical genders as I have a different point of view on language. I don't care wether I'm adressed in a masculine, feminine or neutered way and the discussion about the use of language is in my opinion rather distracting from the actual concrete problems we have
Despite what people say English does have a neuter, single person 'they'. The gendered language thing does come up but not in the same way, for instance, the presiding officer at a board of executives can be referred to as a Chairman (If male, female, or unknown) Chair Woman (if female or spoken about by the Daily Mail in a passive aggressive way), Chair (for male, female, or unknown) or Chairperson (If you're the Guardian and Chair doesn't suite you).
I understand that historically ('mannz') the term 'man' referred to adult human male or to adult human, but it's also kind of pointless. For instance, the 'Chair' is a position filled by a person enacting the powers of that position, that still makes them the 'chair' which (to me) is better way of describing the position than by terms of who's enacting that power.
There's also words that have had feminised forms created despite the original words not having a masculine form in the first place. 'Actor' for instance, the word doesn't mean 'man who acts', it means 'the one who is acting', so the feminised form of 'actress' is pointless, it does nothing save for creating an artificial distinction where none previously existed.
Following on from the 'Fräulein' thing, it also applies in English with female titles referring to marital status but some companies (still not the Daily Mail funnily enough) are getting the hint that Ms exists (note the lack of full stop after the 's' Americans ). But it wasn't that long ago married women could expect to receive letters addressed to Mrs 'Husband's first-name' 'Husband's last-name), which apparently can't be changed by running up the bank and asking.
- for example, as a homosexual you're still not able to marry in Germany. There's the "not really" equivalent but officially I can't call my wife "my wife" if I wanted to because for some reason it's the governments business to uphold the value of "families" with considerable juristical consequences. But rejoice, people include undeerscores, asterisks and a feminization in words so everyone can feel respected. Yay. Not.
Well your Chancellor is a member of the leading Christian party in Germany so it's hardly surprising they feel the need to influence 'family values'. It's moot over here since Equal Marriage was passed, but I'm sure that previous Civil Unions (or marriages for that matter) didn't have any stipulations of modes of address. So I don't think there was any requirement for the terms 'husband' or 'wife' to be used in official references to marriage, so I think it would have been the case for the old Civil Unions.
Now, I for one was finding the discussion of linguistics interesting and enlightening. Is there anything further on that topic, or have we run out of things to say about it?
Oh I never really had much to say on it but I do like reading it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Despite what people say English does have a neuter, single person 'they'. The gendered language thing does come up but not in the same way, for instance, the presiding officer at a board of executives can be referred to as a Chairman (If male, female, or unknown) Chair Woman (if female or spoken about by the Daily Mail in a passive aggressive way), Chair (for male, female, or unknown) or Chairperson (If you're the Guardian and Chair doesn't suite you).
I understand that historically ('mannz') the term 'man' referred to adult human male or to adult human, but it's also kind of pointless. For instance, the 'Chair' is a position filled by a person enacting the powers of that position, that still makes them the 'chair' which (to me) is better way of describing the position than by terms of who's enacting that power.
There's also words that have had feminised forms created despite the original words not having a masculine form in the first place. 'Actor' for instance, the word doesn't mean 'man who acts', it means 'the one who is acting', so the feminised form of 'actress' is pointless, it does nothing save for creating an artificial distinction where none previously existed.
Following on from the 'Fräulein' thing, it also applies in English with female titles referring to marital status but some companies (still not the Daily Mail funnily enough) are getting the hint that Ms exists (note the lack of full stop after the 's' Americans ). But it wasn't that long ago married women could expect to receive letters addressed to Mrs 'Husband's first-name' 'Husband's last-name), which apparently can't be changed by running up the bank and asking.
Right, I even use that quite a lot. Didn't think of it, though. Mostly using it when dealing with ambiguos genders like an internet forum
But for the bolded part, that's exactly the point. You do not get equality by a) tinkering with words all the time instead of doing actual work and b) if you even create artificial distinction that way.
In German almost all designations for professionals use the male article. "Der Bäcker" - the baker, "Der Wissenschaftler" - the scientist and so on. That however doesn't mean women don't work in these professions nor does it really mean "male person who does something" - it's just a grammatical genus, not a biological sex or social gender. The feminization is done by simply sticking a "-in" suffix to it and changing the masculine "der" to the female "die" which is common today and I don't mind it, but it's superflous. Some university even went the whole distance and proudly announced that on behalf of their gender science faculty they will only use female grammar from now on, calling everyone "die Studentin" or "Die Professorin". It's easy to call everybody having a problem with this names, but nobody thinks about how pointless this is and it solves none of the underlying problems. I don't care how I'm adressed but please don't waste time and resources on nonsense like that. Words and language can definitely hurt, no question - but seeing sexism in grammatical genus is delibertely trying to find things to complain about.
Well your Chancellor is a member of the leading Christian party in Germany so it's hardly surprising they feel the need to influence 'family values'. It's moot over here since Equal Marriage was passed, but I'm sure that previous Civil Unions (or marriages for that matter) didn't have any stipulations of modes of address. So I don't think there was any requirement for the terms 'husband' or 'wife' to be used in official references to marriage, so I think it would have been the case for the old Civil Unions.
Yes, I understand why it's TRIBBLE this. I just don't understand why it's like that, if that makes sense. How is this still a thing? The German government is secular, keeping people from equal rights because of some religious believe is technically illegal. It's 2016 ffs. Throw religion out already.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Despite what people say English does have a neuter, single person 'they'. The gendered language thing does come up but not in the same way, for instance, the presiding officer at a board of executives can be referred to as a Chairman (If male, female, or unknown) Chair Woman (if female or spoken about by the Daily Mail in a passive aggressive way), Chair (for male, female, or unknown) or Chairperson (If you're the Guardian and Chair doesn't suite you).
I understand that historically ('mannz') the term 'man' referred to adult human male or to adult human, but it's also kind of pointless. For instance, the 'Chair' is a position filled by a person enacting the powers of that position, that still makes them the 'chair' which (to me) is better way of describing the position than by terms of who's enacting that power.
There's also words that have had feminised forms created despite the original words not having a masculine form in the first place. 'Actor' for instance, the word doesn't mean 'man who acts', it means 'the one who is acting', so the feminised form of 'actress' is pointless, it does nothing save for creating an artificial distinction where none previously existed.
Following on from the 'Fräulein' thing, it also applies in English with female titles referring to marital status but some companies (still not the Daily Mail funnily enough) are getting the hint that Ms exists (note the lack of full stop after the 's' Americans ). But it wasn't that long ago married women could expect to receive letters addressed to Mrs 'Husband's first-name' 'Husband's last-name), which apparently can't be changed by running up the bank and asking.
Right, I even use that quite a lot. Didn't think of it, though. Mostly using it when dealing with ambiguos genders like an internet forum
But for the bolded part, that's exactly the point. You do not get equality by a) tinkering with words all the time instead of doing actual work and b) if you even create artificial distinction that way.
In German almost all designations for professionals use the male article. "Der Bäcker" - the baker, "Der Wissenschaftler" - the scientist and so on. That however doesn't mean women don't work in these professions nor does it really mean "male person who does something" - it's just a grammatical genus, not a biological sex or social gender. The feminization is done by simply sticking a "-in" suffix to it and changing the masculine "der" to the female "die" which is common today and I don't mind it, but it's superflous. Some university even went the whole distance and proudly announced that on behalf of their gender science faculty they will only use female grammar from now on, calling everyone "die Studentin" or "Die Professorin". It's easy to call everybody having a problem with this names, but nobody thinks about how pointless this is and it solves none of the underlying problems. I don't care how I'm adressed but please don't waste time and resources on nonsense like that. Words and language can definitely hurt, no question - but seeing sexism in grammatical genus is delibertely trying to find things to complain about.
Well your Chancellor is a member of the leading Christian party in Germany so it's hardly surprising they feel the need to influence 'family values'. It's moot over here since Equal Marriage was passed, but I'm sure that previous Civil Unions (or marriages for that matter) didn't have any stipulations of modes of address. So I don't think there was any requirement for the terms 'husband' or 'wife' to be used in official references to marriage, so I think it would have been the case for the old Civil Unions.
Yes, I understand why it's TRIBBLE this. I just don't understand why it's like that, if that makes sense. How is this still a thing? The German government is secular, keeping people from equal rights because of some religious believe is technically illegal. It's 2016 ffs. Throw religion out already.
I'll address the latter in a PM because it's probably skirting the line a tad, but doesn't the neuter title 'das' already exist? I don't know exactly know what that does to the words themselves but surely a neutral middle ground is preferable over 'der' or'die'? But then again, I don't even understand why words are gendered in the first place, does it affect the pronunciation, does it change if they are regular or irregular? Apparently (using my advanced degree in Googleing ) Places (and rivers) are mainly feminine whereas people's titles and devices are masculine, I'm sure they'll be a reason but I can't guess one of the top of my head.
Though that could be because I'm fundamentally lazy and unwilling to spend more than a few mins Googling .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'll address the latter in a PM because it's probably skirting the line a tad, but doesn't the neuter title 'das' already exist? I don't know exactly know what that does to the words themselves but surely a neutral middle ground is preferable over 'der' or'die'? But then again, I don't even understand why words are gendered in the first place, does it affect the pronunciation, does it change if they are regular or irregular? Apparently (using my advanced degree in Googleing ) Places (and rivers) are mainly feminine whereas people's titles and devices are masculine, I'm sure they'll be a reason but I can't guess one of the top of my head.
Though that could be because I'm fundamentally lazy and unwilling to spend more than a few mins Googling .
Maybe that's a good idea at this point But no, gendering words doesn't really do anything. Sometimes it sounds nicer, but there's no deeper meaning to it as far as I know, but I'm not an linguist after all. Funny thing though, if you take a masculine thing ("der...") and add another one you get a feminine plural ("die...") - make sense out of that
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
As I said, then let it die and create another thread about Trek Linguistics.
So that folks who are actually looking for new information about Trek-2017, don't have to wade though your particular discussion that has nothing to do with the title of the thread and find NO NEW INFORMATION.
I used to rail against the use of "they" as a gender-neutral third person singular pronoun. Then I did a little more research on the topic, and found that for quite a number of centuries that was perfectly acceptable usage of the word. It appears to have been changed by the same school of prescriptive grammarians who tried to rule out such constructions as the split infinitive, on the grounds that Latin doesn't have them (which of course ignores the fact that Latin can't have them - an infinitive is a single word in Latin, and therefore can't be split. And where would we be if Kirk weren't allowed to intone, "To boldly go...").
So now I've come to accept it. I certainly find it preferable to such clumsy neologisms as "xe".
As I said, then let it die and create another thread about Trek Linguistics.
So that folks who are actually looking for new information about Trek-2017, don't have to wade though your particular discussion that has nothing to do with the title of the thread and find NO NEW INFORMATION.
To be honest, I think even if these thread somehow manages to be updated regularly before the necro-time limit, it will not really be all that useful once we get real information, since you still have to wade through tons of speculation and obsolete information to get to the good parts. Unless you're an internet archeaologist, most of the thread will not be all that useful.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It's odd that English has a gender neutral pronoun that is construed as plural, but not a singular one.
English is an odd language period... There're rules of pronunciation and the like which, as a native speaker, I don't understand the reasons for, and have never even been taught the reasons for, but are just things which are 'learned as correct' via assimilation
Dunno if suggested... A Game of Thrones style Klingon show would actually be a interesting thing to see. As for a show in general I am cautious about this show mainly because the seasonal arc akin to American Horror Story is not the best idea in the world. Why? Television shows do require character development and development that makes sense ( yes I know Trek is not the best at this recently). Also new villains, sure, but one thing. That statement new villains is so painfully vague and if the setting is to be believed this limits the options. Development is important as we get to know these characters and limited screen time is concerning.
So, we've learned a lot about the new writing team, over the past few weeks... and now, there is an official podcast for Trek (which will apparently cover the whole franchise, but will likely feature tons about the new series).
It's odd that English has a gender neutral pronoun that is construed as plural, but not a singular one.
English is an odd language period... There're rules of pronunciation and the like which, as a native speaker, I don't understand the reasons for, and have never even been taught the reasons for, but are just things which are 'learned as correct' via assimilation
A lot of the weird pronunciation rules are relics of how English is a combination of several languages. "weigh" for example uses a pronunciation rule from one of the old languages from the British isles that predated the introduction of Anglo-Saxon, Latin, and French.
It's odd that English has a gender neutral pronoun that is construed as plural, but not a singular one.
English is an odd language period... There're rules of pronunciation and the like which, as a native speaker, I don't understand the reasons for, and have never even been taught the reasons for, but are just things which are 'learned as correct' via assimilation
A lot of the weird pronunciation rules are relics of how English is a combination of several languages. "weigh" for example uses a pronunciation rule from one of the old languages from the British isles that predated the introduction of Anglo-Saxon, Latin, and French.
Absolutely. I think a lot of the low literacy rates back in the day, has something to do with spellings and the like being made on the fly, and then simply being taken as standard...
So, we've learned a lot about the new writing team, over the past few weeks... and now, there is an official podcast for Trek (which will apparently cover the whole franchise, but will likely feature tons about the new series).
This will probably be the preferred way CBS doles out new info as it becomes available for the show.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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Indeed. They got into some kind of issue over using Sherlock Holmes for Data's Holodeck adventures, after all.
And since copyright gets extended all the time, it seems not unlikely that you either have to join a mega-media-corporation like Disney, or will be forever forced to resort to the "classics".
Or maybe at some point the legislators get to their senses. Hah.
"This Congress, Your Honor?"
(actual quote from a US Supreme Court hearing a couple years ago)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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mashable.com/2016/06/06/hewlett-packard-star-trek
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
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I dont, I expect them to let the topic rest until there is new information AND
^this
<snicker>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It changed in 1972 under behalf of then minister of internal affairs Genscher and in 1954 it already became "optional" (the chancellor "granted" women the right to choose which way they wanted to be adressed in official correspodence). Today you don't use it anymore and if you do it is usually considered condescending. In the 70s the women's rights movement pointed out that the use of Fräulein would imply immaturity in unmarried women and they are right at least to some degree. I consider myself a feminist although I personally don't see any immedeate problems from the use of language. For example as a English speaking person this is probably not as common but German uses gendered grammar. In the German gender rights movement to the present day the use of masculine, feminine and neutered forms is a hot topic. Back in the 70s we all wanted more feminine forms whereas today with regards to the Inter and Trans community people want more neutered forms. I never took offense with grammatical genders as I have a different point of view on language. I don't care wether I'm adressed in a masculine, feminine or neutered way and the discussion about the use of language is in my opinion rather distracting from the actual concrete problems we have - for example, as a homosexual you're still not able to marry in Germany. There's the "not really" equivalent but officially I can't call my wife "my wife" if I wanted to because for some reason it's the governments business to uphold the value of "families" with considerable juristical consequences. But rejoice, people include undeerscores, asterisks and a feminization in words so everyone can feel respected. Yay. Not.
Sorry, that was a major derailing right here
I cocnur. Of course if a mod would call order and forbid further derailing that would be fine, but I see that disussions just evolve on their own and as pointed out, right now there is nothing you can say about the show - it's difficult if people open topics years in advance before any information but baseless rumours exist. Also, since the OP is no longer with us you'd want to create a new topic once we have something to build on anyway. Also, I'd estimate half (
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First of all, the topic arose organically out of the topic conversation, and from someone other than myself...
Secondly, the topic is certainly obscure enough to not necessarily attract attention in it's own thread, so it's easier to allow the topic to continue so people who want to participate can...
Thirdly, the thread's original topic, can't realistically go further till new information is released by CBS, so what do youexpect folk to do? Sit around and say 'Good day, Sir' or engage in more theory-crafting just to prevent the thread going off the main page and thus falling under the necro-clause? There are already more than enough 'random' threads on the forum...
Forthly, the topic under discussion is significantly more educational than the argumentative debates which have derailed other threads (ironically, usually ignited by this thread's now-departed OP) What's your beef with educational conversation? That it's 'off topic'? Grow up...
I dropped by, saw there were 25 new posts and for one brief foolish moment thought something actually pertinent to the show had fallen into our grasp to drive such a hubbub.
Silly me.
The necro rule is thirty days.
You do the math.
Now, I for one was finding the discussion of linguistics interesting and enlightening. Is there anything further on that topic, or have we run out of things to say about it?
When written in Welsh, tîm (my name's Tim) means 'team' and is pronounced thus
So that folks who are actually looking for new information about Trek-2017, don't have to wade though your particular discussion that has nothing to do with the title of the thread and find NO NEW INFORMATION.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Despite what people say English does have a neuter, single person 'they'. The gendered language thing does come up but not in the same way, for instance, the presiding officer at a board of executives can be referred to as a Chairman (If male, female, or unknown) Chair Woman (if female or spoken about by the Daily Mail in a passive aggressive way), Chair (for male, female, or unknown) or Chairperson (If you're the Guardian and Chair doesn't suite you).
I understand that historically ('mannz') the term 'man' referred to adult human male or to adult human, but it's also kind of pointless. For instance, the 'Chair' is a position filled by a person enacting the powers of that position, that still makes them the 'chair' which (to me) is better way of describing the position than by terms of who's enacting that power.
There's also words that have had feminised forms created despite the original words not having a masculine form in the first place. 'Actor' for instance, the word doesn't mean 'man who acts', it means 'the one who is acting', so the feminised form of 'actress' is pointless, it does nothing save for creating an artificial distinction where none previously existed.
Following on from the 'Fräulein' thing, it also applies in English with female titles referring to marital status but some companies (still not the Daily Mail funnily enough) are getting the hint that Ms exists (note the lack of full stop after the 's' Americans
Well your Chancellor is a member of the leading Christian party in Germany so it's hardly surprising they feel the need to influence 'family values'. It's moot over here since Equal Marriage was passed, but I'm sure that previous Civil Unions (or marriages for that matter) didn't have any stipulations of modes of address. So I don't think there was any requirement for the terms 'husband' or 'wife' to be used in official references to marriage, so I think it would have been the case for the old Civil Unions.
Oh I never really had much to say on it but I do like reading it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
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'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Right, I even use that quite a lot. Didn't think of it, though. Mostly using it when dealing with ambiguos genders like an internet forum
But for the bolded part, that's exactly the point. You do not get equality by a) tinkering with words all the time instead of doing actual work and b) if you even create artificial distinction that way.
In German almost all designations for professionals use the male article. "Der Bäcker" - the baker, "Der Wissenschaftler" - the scientist and so on. That however doesn't mean women don't work in these professions nor does it really mean "male person who does something" - it's just a grammatical genus, not a biological sex or social gender. The feminization is done by simply sticking a "-in" suffix to it and changing the masculine "der" to the female "die" which is common today and I don't mind it, but it's superflous. Some university even went the whole distance and proudly announced that on behalf of their gender science faculty they will only use female grammar from now on, calling everyone "die Studentin" or "Die Professorin". It's easy to call everybody having a problem with this names, but nobody thinks about how pointless this is and it solves none of the underlying problems. I don't care how I'm adressed but please don't waste time and resources on nonsense like that. Words and language can definitely hurt, no question - but seeing sexism in grammatical genus is delibertely trying to find things to complain about.
Yes, I understand why it's TRIBBLE this. I just don't understand why it's like that, if that makes sense. How is this still a thing? The German government is secular, keeping people from equal rights because of some religious believe is technically illegal. It's 2016 ffs. Throw religion out already.
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I'll address the latter in a PM because it's probably skirting the line a tad, but doesn't the neuter title 'das' already exist? I don't know exactly know what that does to the words themselves but surely a neutral middle ground is preferable over 'der' or'die'? But then again, I don't even understand why words are gendered in the first place, does it affect the pronunciation, does it change if they are regular or irregular? Apparently (using my advanced degree in Googleing
Though that could be because I'm fundamentally lazy and unwilling to spend more than a few mins Googling
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Maybe that's a good idea at this point
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yeah daveyny nailed it
So now I've come to accept it. I certainly find it preferable to such clumsy neologisms as "xe".
My character Tsin'xing
To be honest, I think even if these thread somehow manages to be updated regularly before the necro-time limit, it will not really be all that useful once we get real information, since you still have to wade through tons of speculation and obsolete information to get to the good parts. Unless you're an internet archeaologist, most of the thread will not be all that useful.
http://trekcore.com/blog/2016/06/official-star-trek-podcast-launches-next-week/
My character Tsin'xing
This will probably be the preferred way CBS doles out new info as it becomes available for the show.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion