I agree the Andromeda saucer is "roundish", although I wouldn't actually call it round. Either way though, I think the "no round saucer theory" has been disproven, with no need to factor in the Andromeda.
I think that the fact that there are now new games out there with round, oval and oblong/triangular primary hulls, kinda-sorta negates the "Exclusive Shape" theory between CBS & Paramount.
I'm hoping that once "Beyond" hits the theaters this summer, we'll begin hearing about a new wrinkle in the Cryptic/PWE Trek License that will allow for this game to be able to market the original Enterprise in new ways with the coming of the TOS 50th Anniversary.
After all, we've just found out that even though there has been a rift between CBS & Paramount over Trek in the past, They ARE co-operating somewhat within their given parameters, to allow for a continuation of the movies and a new TV series being produced.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Its not that simple. She's integrated into 3 other skins, Connie, Vesper, and C-Store Exeter. And a lot of people are already flying T2s with Excal parts. My old T2 refit is a Connie with Excal nacelles!
She's too heavily integrated to just flip a switch. We're talking lots of code, serious impact on players who now have to recustomize their ships...
I'm not following what your saying here.
Nagus is asking for an end game Excalibur ship. Cryptic could just make a T6 Excalibur ship from scratch (code wise) and that's that? He's not asking for a buffed up T2 version.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Ok, look, here's what I think REALLY happened behind closed doors.
Cryptic has not released ANY circular primary hulls since launch and those got in only due to a promotional TRIBBLE up that made them have to fight tooth and claw or lose Gamestop's support. In whatever split that Paramount and CBS agreed on so they could both go back to making money hand over fist, Paramount got the classic profile/circular saucers and has been milking it like mad with two movies that could both be re-titled "Enterprise rising out of stuff!" CBS got all the ovals and blunted triangles and that's the beginning and end of the shapes they and their sub-licensees will EVER use in the future.
Well, both Eaglemoss and Wizkids' model lines comfortably include both varieties - heck, Wizkid's boxed game was noted as one of the *very* few times that the movie-era Enterprise is seen in action alongside the Galaxy class - so even if you're right, it clearly doesn't affect sublicensors.
The real reason, IMO, is that circular saucers are reflective of older designs (ENT through movie era) whereas oval designs are associated with newer ones. That was established in the series, Cryptic has just gone with it.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
Nagus is asking for an end game Excalibur ship. Cryptic could just make a T6 Excalibur ship from scratch (code wise) and that's that? He's not asking for a buffed up T2 version.
To fully divorce it from the Connie you would have to seperate it entirely from anything associated with the Connie. That includes the other T2 Cruiser skins. Also, people have suggested locking out Connie parts in the past to allow for an endgame Cruiser Retrofit, and it has been veto'd in the past.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I am sooo hoping that the new series uses round primary hull designs...
<fingers crossed>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Nagus is asking for an end game Excalibur ship. Cryptic could just make a T6 Excalibur ship from scratch (code wise) and that's that? He's not asking for a buffed up T2 version.
To fully divorce it from the Connie you would have to seperate it entirely from anything associated with the Connie. That includes the other T2 Cruiser skins. Also, people have suggested locking out Connie parts in the past to allow for an endgame Cruiser Retrofit, and it has been veto'd in the past.
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the coding works of Cryptic's game engine, but I doubt there would be any 'divorce' involved. The T2s would stay as they are with no changes, while a NEW T6 Excalibur ship would be made. Another words, it's a new ship using its current skin resources and only its skin would be used while everything else is fresh code(new slots etc.).
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Also, people have suggested locking out Connie parts in the past to allow for an endgame Cruiser Retrofit, and it has been veto'd in the past.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but since you keep saying this, I would really love to see any actual DEV(key word) comments that "veto" anything other than the actual connie itself. I don't recall seeing any DEV(key word) comments that say CBS told them they can't make an end game Excalibur. And on that point, I refer back to my earlier post:
As far as any "official verdicts" are concerned, if CBS has actually told them that they cannot make an end game version of ANY ship that is a variant of the connie; fine. Just tell us that is what CBS actually said. But again, *NO* dev(smirk wasn't a dev) has *EVER* told us that CBS said they could not make an end game version of any connie variant. ALL dev comments to date regarding CBS 'ruling' have only mentioned the *actual* connie itself. So, again, if CBS has in fact told them that they cannot make an end game version of the Excalibur or any connie variant, just tell us that. I'm willing to accept that, if that is in fact what CBS said.
I assume you're joking, but just in case for the circularly challenged I've added an actual circle .
Oval. Very.
For the record, the word "round" is *NOT* the same thing as the word "circular". If you will see the definition, you will see words "like" or "approximately". So, technically speaking, something does not have to be completely circular to be round. So it just depends on how nit pickie someone wants to be
For example, most people believe or say the Earth is "round", but it is *NOT* actually an exact sphere or circular:
In the case of the Earth, this "middle" is the equator. The true shape of the Earth called an Oblate Spheroid. The term "Oblate" refers to it's slightly oblong appearance. The term "Spheroid" means that it is almost a sphere, but not quite.
Well, both Eaglemoss and Wizkids' model lines comfortably include both varieties...
Yeah... and the Eaglemoss figs having the movie figures at twice the size (and cost) pretty much SCREAMS concessions to a second licensor . Good on them they were able to swing a parallel deal and put it all under a shared banner. For whatever reason, Cryptic clearly hasn't reached a similar understanding with Paramount.
Though it's be funny as all heck if the JJ Enterprise appeared in game at twice the scale of any other ship and for $50 . Just to carry the same obvious split in licensing terms forward to it's logical conclusion.
- heck, Wizkid's boxed game was noted as one of the *very* few times that the movie-era Enterprise is seen in action alongside the Galaxy class - so even if you're right, it clearly doesn't affect sublicensors.
On the contrary - it absolutely is affecting sub-licensors. Two kids each own part of the pie and you DO NOT TOUCH the other kid's part of the pie without permission. Some of the subcontractors are approaching both kids, and some aren't. The article about the TV series lays it out pretty plain - the two kids can be civil in public, but they're not friends.
The real reason, IMO, is that circular saucers are reflective of older designs (ENT through movie era) whereas oval designs are associated with newer ones. That was established in the series, Cryptic has just gone with it.
Could be, but I think the approvals process Cryptic has to jump through is significantly more nuanced than that .
Well at least we went most of 12 pages before people started flipping tables and going emo batsh!t over this.
Have all the people screaming "ITS A CONNIE" actually looked up the Excalibur? The U.S.S. Excalibur is the lead vessel of the Excalibur-class cruiser. The Excalibur was launched from Utopia Planitia in 2391. The Excalibur was in service to Starfleet in 2409. The Excalibur class is well-suited for cargo or transport missions. Its expansive cargo holds make it indispensable to Starfleet as a vessel used to resupply planets, space stations, and other starships. The power systems make it possible to run industrial replicators indefinitely, making this class the ideal choice for evacuation and mercy missions.
The "Flagship" of the line is only 19yrs old and utilizes the standard "saucer, engineering hull, and nacelle" configuration utilized in the design of most Starfleet vessels. Nowhere in the GAME'S OWN FICTION does it even reference the Constitution Class. Same for the Vesper Class.
Well at least we went most of 12 pages before people started flipping tables and going emo batsh!t over this.
Have all the people screaming "ITS A CONNIE" actually looked up the Excalibur? The U.S.S. Excalibur is the lead vessel of the Excalibur-class cruiser. The Excalibur was launched from Utopia Planitia in 2391. The Excalibur was in service to Starfleet in 2409. The Excalibur class is well-suited for cargo or transport missions. Its expansive cargo holds make it indispensable to Starfleet as a vessel used to resupply planets, space stations, and other starships. The power systems make it possible to run industrial replicators indefinitely, making this class the ideal choice for evacuation and mercy missions.
The "Flagship" of the line is only 19yrs old and utilizes the standard "saucer, engineering hull, and nacelle" configuration utilized in the design of most Starfleet vessels. Nowhere in the GAME'S OWN FICTION does it even reference the Constitution Class.
Yes, that point has already been argued in this thread. And even as the one who posted this thread, I have to admit that that lore doesn't change the fact that the T2 Excalibur is effectively the same as the connie as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned. I understand at admit that simple issue. But the point is, I'm asking for a change. I'm asking to separate the 2 ships and make the Excalibur an end game ship. I know it probably won't happen, but I'm still asking for it. I'm also asking them to clarify if CBS actually said they couldn't do what I am specifically asking for.
Point is nagus. even the game's own lore tells the whiners it is not a connie... now the Exeter DOES directly state its a modern Constitution Class, sadly. The people flippin tables need to stop, and take a breath. Yes it was given a slot the same as the Connie. BUT are we going to argue that the Trident class is the exact same thing as the Destiny Class or Nimbus Class(retired)?? They share a tier, and Cryptic allows for kitbashing. But they are clearly NOT the same ship.
Play a Romulan Republic character, kitbashing isn't a guaranteed right in STO, and the game functions w/o the ability to do it. My Mogai shares a tier with a D'deridex but again, NOT THE SAME SHIP. It's really a simple(ish) matter to give the Excalibur/Vesta its own catagory for a Tier6 redux
And is again a canon design appearing in TV episodes like the Ambassador.
Maybe I'm not being clear. I am talking about Cryptic-created designs. The kind subject to approvals. The kind that they very likely have to run past both CBS & Paramount. Not special licensing from Paramount (Excelsior). Not ships from the the TV show. New hulls unique to STO.
They seem incredibly leery of introducing circular primary hulls. More than just "in-setting modern ships are all ovals or wedges". More like they irritated Paramount with the whole Connie/Excalibur thing at game launch and now Cryptic gives the whole concept a wide berth.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
They seem incredibly leery of introducing circular primary hulls
I don't they they are "leery", I think it is an intentional design "evolution" on Cryptic's part. The canon ships of Trek moved away from the circular saucer, so I think Cryptic is just continuing that trend. If there were actually some "ban", the Geneva would never have been approved.
Cryptic doesn't have an agreement with Paramount. Paramount is not involved whatsoever with STO.
Uh huh. Sure. Because CBS and Paramount don't have discussions between them all the time that the sub-licensors then have to tow the line on. Paramount just bullied CBS out of launching its new Trek TV show during the 50th anniversary so that their movie wouldn't have any sort of confusion in the market. You think they wouldn't stomp the life out of some piddling game studio for drifting too close to their visual motifs?
Make no mistake, the contract may be with CBS, but Paramount definitely has a compelling say regarding imagery they feel infringes their segment of the brand.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
Uh huh. Sure. Because CBS and Paramount don't have discussions between them all the time that the sub-licensors then have to tow the line on. Paramount just bullied CBS out of launching its new Trek TV show during the 50th anniversary so that their movie wouldn't have any sort of confusion in the market. You think they wouldn't stomp the life out of some piddling game studio for drifting too close to their visual motifs?
Make no mistake, the contract may be with CBS, but Paramount definitely has a compelling say regarding imagery they feel infringes their segment of the brand.
The ONLY thing involving Paramount would be any content from the reboot movies, which Cryptic cannot touch. CBS holds the license on everything else, from Nemesis and Enterprise back to TOS.
And before you point out the Red Matter Capacitor and Tal Shiar Adapted ships, those showed up in prequel comics which I believe were covered by CBS.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Comments
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'm hoping that once "Beyond" hits the theaters this summer, we'll begin hearing about a new wrinkle in the Cryptic/PWE Trek License that will allow for this game to be able to market the original Enterprise in new ways with the coming of the TOS 50th Anniversary.
After all, we've just found out that even though there has been a rift between CBS & Paramount over Trek in the past, They ARE co-operating somewhat within their given parameters, to allow for a continuation of the movies and a new TV series being produced.
http://trekcore.com/blog/2016/03/cbs-had-to-wait-six-months-to-launch-new-show-after-star-trek-beyond-release/
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Andromeda -
Geneva -
But in the process I did find...
Celestial -
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I'm not following what your saying here.
Nagus is asking for an end game Excalibur ship. Cryptic could just make a T6 Excalibur ship from scratch (code wise) and that's that? He's not asking for a buffed up T2 version.
Well, both Eaglemoss and Wizkids' model lines comfortably include both varieties - heck, Wizkid's boxed game was noted as one of the *very* few times that the movie-era Enterprise is seen in action alongside the Galaxy class - so even if you're right, it clearly doesn't affect sublicensors.
The real reason, IMO, is that circular saucers are reflective of older designs (ENT through movie era) whereas oval designs are associated with newer ones. That was established in the series, Cryptic has just gone with it.
To fully divorce it from the Connie you would have to seperate it entirely from anything associated with the Connie. That includes the other T2 Cruiser skins. Also, people have suggested locking out Connie parts in the past to allow for an endgame Cruiser Retrofit, and it has been veto'd in the past.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
<fingers crossed>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the coding works of Cryptic's game engine, but I doubt there would be any 'divorce' involved. The T2s would stay as they are with no changes, while a NEW T6 Excalibur ship would be made. Another words, it's a new ship using its current skin resources and only its skin would be used while everything else is fresh code(new slots etc.).
I assume you're joking, but just in case for the circularly challenged I've added an actual circle
Oval. Very.
I'm not saying you are wrong, but since you keep saying this, I would really love to see any actual DEV(key word) comments that "veto" anything other than the actual connie itself. I don't recall seeing any DEV(key word) comments that say CBS told them they can't make an end game Excalibur. And on that point, I refer back to my earlier post:
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
For the record, the word "round" is *NOT* the same thing as the word "circular". If you will see the definition, you will see words "like" or "approximately". So, technically speaking, something does not have to be completely circular to be round. So it just depends on how nit pickie someone wants to be
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
https://www.google.com/#q=what+shape+is+the+earth
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yeah... and the Eaglemoss figs having the movie figures at twice the size (and cost) pretty much SCREAMS concessions to a second licensor
Though it's be funny as all heck if the JJ Enterprise appeared in game at twice the scale of any other ship and for $50
On the contrary - it absolutely is affecting sub-licensors. Two kids each own part of the pie and you DO NOT TOUCH the other kid's part of the pie without permission. Some of the subcontractors are approaching both kids, and some aren't. The article about the TV series lays it out pretty plain - the two kids can be civil in public, but they're not friends.
Could be, but I think the approvals process Cryptic has to jump through is significantly more nuanced than that
Have all the people screaming "ITS A CONNIE" actually looked up the Excalibur?
The U.S.S. Excalibur is the lead vessel of the Excalibur-class cruiser. The Excalibur was launched from Utopia Planitia in 2391. The Excalibur was in service to Starfleet in 2409. The Excalibur class is well-suited for cargo or transport missions. Its expansive cargo holds make it indispensable to Starfleet as a vessel used to resupply planets, space stations, and other starships. The power systems make it possible to run industrial replicators indefinitely, making this class the ideal choice for evacuation and mercy missions.
The "Flagship" of the line is only 19yrs old and utilizes the standard "saucer, engineering hull, and nacelle" configuration utilized in the design of most Starfleet vessels. Nowhere in the GAME'S OWN FICTION does it even reference the Constitution Class. Same for the Vesper Class.
Yes, that point has already been argued in this thread. And even as the one who posted this thread, I have to admit that that lore doesn't change the fact that the T2 Excalibur is effectively the same as the connie as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned. I understand at admit that simple issue. But the point is, I'm asking for a change. I'm asking to separate the 2 ships and make the Excalibur an end game ship. I know it probably won't happen, but I'm still asking for it. I'm also asking them to clarify if CBS actually said they couldn't do what I am specifically asking for.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Play a Romulan Republic character, kitbashing isn't a guaranteed right in STO, and the game functions w/o the ability to do it. My Mogai shares a tier with a D'deridex but again, NOT THE SAME SHIP. It's really a simple(ish) matter to give the Excalibur/Vesta its own catagory for a Tier6 redux
I know. See my above post. But you are just repeating the same thing as in your last post, not advancing a new point in the discussion.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Keep reading, we've already had this conversation
Maybe I'm not being clear. I am talking about Cryptic-created designs. The kind subject to approvals. The kind that they very likely have to run past both CBS & Paramount. Not special licensing from Paramount (Excelsior). Not ships from the the TV show. New hulls unique to STO.
They seem incredibly leery of introducing circular primary hulls. More than just "in-setting modern ships are all ovals or wedges". More like they irritated Paramount with the whole Connie/Excalibur thing at game launch and now Cryptic gives the whole concept a wide berth.
Cryptic doesn't have an agreement with Paramount. Paramount is not involved whatsoever with STO.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I don't they they are "leery", I think it is an intentional design "evolution" on Cryptic's part. The canon ships of Trek moved away from the circular saucer, so I think Cryptic is just continuing that trend. If there were actually some "ban", the Geneva would never have been approved.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Uh huh. Sure. Because CBS and Paramount don't have discussions between them all the time that the sub-licensors then have to tow the line on. Paramount just bullied CBS out of launching its new Trek TV show during the 50th anniversary so that their movie wouldn't have any sort of confusion in the market. You think they wouldn't stomp the life out of some piddling game studio for drifting too close to their visual motifs?
Make no mistake, the contract may be with CBS, but Paramount definitely has a compelling say regarding imagery they feel infringes their segment of the brand.
The ONLY thing involving Paramount would be any content from the reboot movies, which Cryptic cannot touch. CBS holds the license on everything else, from Nemesis and Enterprise back to TOS.
And before you point out the Red Matter Capacitor and Tal Shiar Adapted ships, those showed up in prequel comics which I believe were covered by CBS.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
now for my tinfoil hat moment.... maybe because they ARE doing something excalibur-like for the 50th
Here's to hoping!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008