Has any one played ST: Timelines? Their ships have a 'star' system and they have placed a TOS Constitution (i.s.s Enterprise) as a 5 star ship (top tier( better stats than the galaxy and 1701D)) So y can they have a tos connie at top tier and we cant have a exeter at top?
Has any one played ST: Timelines? Their ships have a 'star' system and they have placed a TOS Constitution (i.s.s Enterprise) as a 5 star ship (top tier( better stats than the galaxy and 1701D)) So y can they have a tos connie at top tier and we cant have a exeter at top?
Because at the time this game was being created, there was supposedly a conflict between Paramount and CBS as to which merchandise should be top-dog... The Original Series or the JJ-Movies.
So the person in charge of CBS licensing, felt it was better to not have the Classic Enterprise be prominent in the game, since there was a new version (the 2009 Movie version) that it could possibly be in competition with.
Then CBS supposedly told Paramount that They were not going to pull their current Trek Licenses and the matter became moot.
But it was too late for STO to get Their licensing contract altered.
Now with the 50th Anniversary just around the corner and the licensing thing pretty much settled, it might have been possible for STO to get permission to incorporate more of TOS into the game, but we won't know for sure till September rolls around. (or maybe around the time "Star Trek: Beyond" hits the theater screens)
Post edited by daveyny on
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Has any one played ST: Timelines? Their ships have a 'star' system and they have placed a TOS Constitution (i.s.s Enterprise) as a 5 star ship (top tier( better stats than the galaxy and 1701D)) So y can they have a tos connie at top tier and we cant have a exeter at top?
Timelines's story involves a mishmash of histories and alternate histories that would make the Doctor sob uncontrollably over his TARDIS console. And for $ome rea$on they decided to make mid 23rd century starships the equal or better of mid-to-late 24th century ones.
Taste is subjective. The Exeter is cool, but has nothing to do with my request of an Excalibur class. If you want to ask for an Exeter, feel free to post that thread.
This subject comes up so often, they should just make a T6 destroyer with vague visual hommages to the Conny and Exeter and Vesper and be done with it.
Sure, new ships are cool. But once again, that has nothing to do with this thread requesting an Excalibur.
Did they even do the modeling for the Excalibur ? I mean, sure, its wasted if they have a 3D model laying around and are not using it (even at low tier status, it would easily sell for 500-1000zen). Wasted Dev time. No return on investment.
Otherwise I think the artwork itself serves its advertisment purposes. Its a solid visual that screams Trek.
The marketing department really knocked it out of the park on that one.
[img][/img]
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
Considering the Excalibur is a T2 cruiser variant and parts can be used on the T2 Cruiser in kitbashing... it does get used. Along with the Connie Refit, Vesper (shudders), and C-Store Exeter.
I still don't understand how people get the "oh it's a T5/6 Connie" out of this ships design.....
look at the Rhode Island Class.... That diminutive science vessel(if nobody really understands how small it is) could be seen as a triangle-shaped connie... or a non-quad nacelle'd Prometheus.... Hell there are some who've compared it to having Aspects of Voyager.
Looking at the Excalibur class.... Sure there's a connie(refit) aspect in the form of the deflector/hull... Nacelles scream Sovereign... saucer... that's just straight-up Cryptic.
so... what's the argument here? Size? Crew Compliment? Cause i'm pretty sure there's no reason why they can't up-scale the thing and make it a whale-cruiser.
Just like they could up-scale a BoP, lock it's wings, and call it a K'vort Class Battlecruiser....
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
I still don't understand how people get the "oh it's a T5/6 Connie" out of this ships design...
The Excalibur can share parts with the other T2 Cruiser variants, including the Connie. Gameplay purposes, a T2 Excalibur is the same ship as a T2 Connie Refit. Just a different costume.
I still don't understand how people get the "oh it's a T5/6 Connie" out of this ships design...
The Excalibur can share parts with the other T2 Cruiser variants, including the Connie. Gameplay purposes, a T2 Excalibur is the same ship as a T2 Connie Refit. Just a different costume.
Right. But(and here is the key point), that is all completely within Cryptic's ability to change. If you will refer to the OP, I specifically asked them to lock out the connie parts for a end game Excalibur. So while the T2 Excalibur may "effectively" be the same ship as the Connie, an end game Excalibur would not. It would have completely different stats, and *not* have the connie parts as costume options.
I still don't understand how people get the "oh it's a T5/6 Connie" out of this ships design...
The Excalibur can share parts with the other T2 Cruiser variants, including the Connie. Gameplay purposes, a T2 Excalibur is the same ship as a T2 Connie Refit. Just a different costume.
Sure but that's for people who KNOW what it is... i'm saying look at it from a completely "i've never played this game before" and/or "I don't understand the in's and out's of these ship classes" perspective...
That ship could be ANYTHING. Although it maintains it's cruiser-like aspect it /COULD/ be any scale... any size.
Just like looking at the Rhode Island class carries a Prometheus/Voyager vibe and COULD be mistaken as a cruiser too.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
Right. So, yes, the ship was obviously used for advertising. Obvious statement is obvious. But unfortunately, it is virtually useless at end game. So what has been "wasted", IMO, is the potential the ship had for any meaningful long term gameplay use. The good news is that Cryptic can change that...unless CBS has specifically said otherwise. And if they have, all they need to do is say so. But *NO* dev has *EVER* told us CBS said they couldn't make an end game excalibur. The *ONLY* thing any actual dev(no, smirk wasn't a dev) has told us about the CBS 'ruling' was about the actual constitution class, which is *not* what I'm asking for.
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
The Connie Refit counts as the Constitution class for the purposes of the restriction.
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
The Connie Refit counts as the Constitution class for the purposes of the restriction.
I would have to agree. However, this thread is *not* about the connie, so I have to ask that anyone who wants to discuss that topic post a separate thread. This thread is only asking for an end game Excalibur, not a connie.
This thread is only asking for an end game Excalibur, not a connie.
Which in gameplay purposes are the exact same ship. Same stats, shares parts...
The only time it has different stats is if you use the Excalibur skin on an Exeter. But its still the same thing.
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
Tbh ive allways took the constitution class referanced to be the T1. Allways thought the constutution refit was a class of her own. So technically theyve not said they cant do the refit, excaliber, exeter or vesper at a higher tier
The Connie Refit counts as the Constitution class for the purposes of the restriction.
I would have to agree. However, this thread is *not* about the connie, so I have to ask that anyone who wants to discuss that topic post a separate thread. This thread is only asking for an end game Excalibur, not a connie.
Oh I know that, I was clarifying it for the person I was quoting.
I'd never want an endgame Connie, frankly, but I'd be super cool with the others.
I think the Excalibur skin is barred from life as a t5/T6 because under the hood it's a Constitution skeleton with interchangeable parts. From a design perspective if they share a skeleton, they're the same ship and if one skin is barred it takes out the whole cluster reliant on that skeleton.
I think the Excalibur skin is barred from life as a t5/T6 because under the hood it's a Constitution skeleton with interchangeable parts. From a design perspective if they share a skeleton, they're the same ship and if one skin is barred it takes out the whole cluster reliant on that skeleton.
This is what's suspected is ultimately holding the non-Connie variants back from an endgame incarnation.
".... you're gonna have a bad time."
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
I think the Excalibur skin is barred from life as a t5/T6 because under the hood it's a Constitution skeleton with interchangeable parts. From a design perspective if they share a skeleton, they're the same ship and if one skin is barred it takes out the whole cluster reliant on that skeleton.
This is what's suspected is ultimately holding the non-Connie variants back from an endgame incarnation.
Exactly. Same ship, different skin. Even the Exeter falls under the Connie umbrella. OP just doesn't understand that.
This thread is only asking for an end game Excalibur, not a connie.
Which in gameplay purposes are the exact same ship. Same stats, shares parts...
The only time it has different stats is if you use the Excalibur skin on an Exeter. But its still the same thing.
I think the Excalibur skin is barred from life as a t5/T6 because under the hood it's a Constitution skeleton with interchangeable parts. From a design perspective if they share a skeleton, they're the same ship and if one skin is barred it takes out the whole cluster reliant on that skeleton.
This is what's suspected is ultimately holding the non-Connie variants back from an endgame incarnation.
Exactly. Same ship, different skin. Even the Exeter falls under the Connie umbrella. OP just doesn't understand that.
Actually, I do understand. Yes, the T2 Excalibur is effectively the same as the Connie as far as gameplay is concerned, for 2 reasons:
1) exact same stats
2) interchangeable parts
However, I am *NOT* asking for a T2 Excalibur. I am asking for an end game Exaclibur, which would *NOT* have the same stats and *NOT* have interchangeable parts with the connie. Therefore, the 2 reasons that the T2 Excal is related to the connie would have nothing to do with an end game Excalibur.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
ITS A FRICKIN' CONNIE!
It doesn't matter what skin is being used, its a Connie, and falls under the "No Endgame Connie" category. Switching words around doesn't make it a different ship. In regards to the Excalibur, its interchangable with Constitution and for all intents and purposes the same ship. We're not getting an endgame Excalibur because it is a Connie variant.
We have literally covered every single avenue to get an endgame Cruiser Retrofit in countless threads that have resulted in the Endgame Connie subject being put on the FCT, including locking out the Constitution parts. It hasn't happened. It will not happen. CBS has veto'd endgame Connie in any form, otherwise we'd already have one by now.
ITS A FRICKIN' CONNIE!
It doesn't matter what skin is being used, its a Connie, and falls under the "No Endgame Connie" category. Switching words around doesn't make it a different ship. In regards to the Excalibur, its interchangable with Constitution and for all intents and purposes the same ship. We're not getting an endgame Excalibur because it is a Connie variant.
We have literally covered every single avenue to get an endgame Cruiser Retrofit in countless threads that have resulted in the Endgame Connie subject being put on the FCT, including locking out the Constitution parts. It hasn't happened. It will not happen. CBS has veto'd endgame Connie in any form, otherwise we'd already have one by now.
Look, I do understand your point. However, the Excalibur parts are only interchangeable with the connie parts because Cryptic plugged them into that slot. With me so far? Great. Now, I'm not sure if you have noticed, but Cryptic can actually change their game. They have done it before and will do it again. That being the case, Cryptic could disconnect the Excalibur parts, severing all ties with the connie. So no, I am not asking for an end game connie. I am asking for an end game Excalibur, with NO connie parts. I am asking for a completely different ship that would have no connection to the connie.
As far as any "official verdicts" are concerned, if CBS has actually told them that they cannot make an end game version of ANY ship that is a variant of the connie; fine. Just tell us that is what CBS actually said. But again, *NO* dev(smirk wasn't a dev) has *EVER* told us that CBS said they could not make an end game version of any connie variant. ALL dev comments to date regarding CBS 'ruling' have only mentioned the *actual* connie itself. So, again, if CBS has in fact told them that they cannot make an end game version of the Excalibur or any connie variant, just tell us that. I'm willing to accept that, if that is in fact what CBS said.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,449Community Moderator
She's already connected. She's been connected since the Beta. She is a member of the Connie family, which includes the Vesper and Exeter. The only real change I can think of in playable ships is when they renamed the old Avenger Star Cruiser to allow for the Avenger Battlecruiser, and the addition of new parts for the Negh'Var.
As I said, literally EVERY avenue has been tried to get any form of Endgame Cruiser Retrofit. INCLUDING locking out the Connie parts. Tried and Veto'd.
I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. We all would love some form of endgame Cruiser Retrofit, but it just won't happen.
She's already connected. She's been connected since the Beta.
I'm not denying that. I'm asking for a change to a game that has been changed many times.
I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. We all would love some form of endgame Cruiser Retrofit, but it just won't happen.
There is nothing to be "sorry" for. This is a thread on a video game forum asking for a space ship. It's not some "big deal", just a request. If you agree, fine. If you don't, that's also fine.
As I said, literally EVERY avenue has been tried to get any form of Endgame Cruiser Retrofit. INCLUDING locking out the Connie parts. Tried and Veto'd.
I would like to point out THIS particular line you bypassed. We've tried. MANY TIMES. Hence why Endgame Connie (in any form) is part of the FCT. What your suggesting has been tried time and time again. If it didn't happen before, it ain't happening now. Its the same argument that has been explored.
Look, I do understand your point. However, the Excalibur parts are only interchangeable with the connie parts because Cryptic plugged them into that slot. With me so far?
No, I'm not with you, because that statement is COMPLETELY UNTRUE. It's not a coincidence those parts can be used on the Connie skeleton... they were MADE SPECIFICALLY to fit on that skeleton. Otherwise Fedies would have something like 25 nacelle choices on ever single ship in the roster.
So no, I am not asking for an end game connie. I am asking for an end game Excalibur, with NO connie parts. I am asking for a completely different ship that would have no connection to the connie.
Other than the trifling fact it's specifically and inextricably built on a connie skeleton. Making it a connie variant with zero room for finagling about the hard reality of the underlying code.
Dude. The ship is dead and has been in its grave SEVEN YEARS NOW. Maybe we'll see more circular saucers in the future... thought frankly Crypic has shied away from that in such an amazingly consistent way that the observant player has probably noticed they don't want even the slightest wiff of 'looks faintly like a connie' on anything they design and have to submit to CBS's scrutiny.
I think you're really failing to grasp how thoroughly the well has been poisoned. The grass has died in a half mile radius around it and even the dead patch dares not be circular for fear of looking like a Connie.
Comments
Because at the time this game was being created, there was supposedly a conflict between Paramount and CBS as to which merchandise should be top-dog... The Original Series or the JJ-Movies.
So the person in charge of CBS licensing, felt it was better to not have the Classic Enterprise be prominent in the game, since there was a new version (the 2009 Movie version) that it could possibly be in competition with.
Then CBS supposedly told Paramount that They were not going to pull their current Trek Licenses and the matter became moot.
But it was too late for STO to get Their licensing contract altered.
Now with the 50th Anniversary just around the corner and the licensing thing pretty much settled, it might have been possible for STO to get permission to incorporate more of TOS into the game, but we won't know for sure till September rolls around. (or maybe around the time "Star Trek: Beyond" hits the theater screens)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Timelines's story involves a mishmash of histories and alternate histories that would make the Doctor sob uncontrollably over his TARDIS console. And for $ome rea$on they decided to make mid 23rd century starships the equal or better of mid-to-late 24th century ones.
Taste is subjective. The Exeter is cool, but has nothing to do with my request of an Excalibur class. If you want to ask for an Exeter, feel free to post that thread.
I agree, that would be interesting. However, again, that has nothing to do with this thread requesting an Excalibur.
Sure, new ships are cool. But once again, that has nothing to do with this thread requesting an Excalibur.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I mean, sure, its wasted if they have a 3D model laying around and are not using it (even at low tier status, it would easily sell for 500-1000zen). Wasted Dev time. No return on investment.
Otherwise I think the artwork itself serves its advertisment purposes.
Its a solid visual that screams Trek.
The marketing department really knocked it out of the park on that one.
Considering the Excalibur is a T2 cruiser variant and parts can be used on the T2 Cruiser in kitbashing... it does get used. Along with the Connie Refit, Vesper (shudders), and C-Store Exeter.
Probably became the Nobel class variant of the Assault Cruiser.
look at the Rhode Island Class.... That diminutive science vessel(if nobody really understands how small it is) could be seen as a triangle-shaped connie... or a non-quad nacelle'd Prometheus.... Hell there are some who've compared it to having Aspects of Voyager.
Looking at the Excalibur class.... Sure there's a connie(refit) aspect in the form of the deflector/hull... Nacelles scream Sovereign... saucer... that's just straight-up Cryptic.
so... what's the argument here? Size? Crew Compliment? Cause i'm pretty sure there's no reason why they can't up-scale the thing and make it a whale-cruiser.
Just like they could up-scale a BoP, lock it's wings, and call it a K'vort Class Battlecruiser....
The Excalibur can share parts with the other T2 Cruiser variants, including the Connie. Gameplay purposes, a T2 Excalibur is the same ship as a T2 Connie Refit. Just a different costume.
Right. But(and here is the key point), that is all completely within Cryptic's ability to change. If you will refer to the OP, I specifically asked them to lock out the connie parts for a end game Excalibur. So while the T2 Excalibur may "effectively" be the same ship as the Connie, an end game Excalibur would not. It would have completely different stats, and *not* have the connie parts as costume options.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sure but that's for people who KNOW what it is... i'm saying look at it from a completely "i've never played this game before" and/or "I don't understand the in's and out's of these ship classes" perspective...
That ship could be ANYTHING. Although it maintains it's cruiser-like aspect it /COULD/ be any scale... any size.
Just like looking at the Rhode Island class carries a Prometheus/Voyager vibe and COULD be mistaken as a cruiser too.
Your probably right, and it did well for that purpose.
I wouldn't call it wasted either, but it would be nice for it to be further utilized.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The Connie Refit counts as the Constitution class for the purposes of the restriction.
I would have to agree. However, this thread is *not* about the connie, so I have to ask that anyone who wants to discuss that topic post a separate thread. This thread is only asking for an end game Excalibur, not a connie.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Which in gameplay purposes are the exact same ship. Same stats, shares parts...
The only time it has different stats is if you use the Excalibur skin on an Exeter. But its still the same thing.
Oh I know that, I was clarifying it for the person I was quoting.
I'd never want an endgame Connie, frankly, but I'd be super cool with the others.
This is what's suspected is ultimately holding the non-Connie variants back from an endgame incarnation.
Exactly. Same ship, different skin. Even the Exeter falls under the Connie umbrella. OP just doesn't understand that.
Actually, I do understand. Yes, the T2 Excalibur is effectively the same as the Connie as far as gameplay is concerned, for 2 reasons:
1) exact same stats
2) interchangeable parts
However, I am *NOT* asking for a T2 Excalibur. I am asking for an end game Exaclibur, which would *NOT* have the same stats and *NOT* have interchangeable parts with the connie. Therefore, the 2 reasons that the T2 Excal is related to the connie would have nothing to do with an end game Excalibur.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It doesn't matter what skin is being used, its a Connie, and falls under the "No Endgame Connie" category. Switching words around doesn't make it a different ship. In regards to the Excalibur, its interchangable with Constitution and for all intents and purposes the same ship. We're not getting an endgame Excalibur because it is a Connie variant.
We have literally covered every single avenue to get an endgame Cruiser Retrofit in countless threads that have resulted in the Endgame Connie subject being put on the FCT, including locking out the Constitution parts. It hasn't happened. It will not happen. CBS has veto'd endgame Connie in any form, otherwise we'd already have one by now.
@pwlaughingtrendy can we please have an official verdict on this?
Look, I do understand your point. However, the Excalibur parts are only interchangeable with the connie parts because Cryptic plugged them into that slot. With me so far? Great. Now, I'm not sure if you have noticed, but Cryptic can actually change their game. They have done it before and will do it again. That being the case, Cryptic could disconnect the Excalibur parts, severing all ties with the connie. So no, I am not asking for an end game connie. I am asking for an end game Excalibur, with NO connie parts. I am asking for a completely different ship that would have no connection to the connie.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As I said, literally EVERY avenue has been tried to get any form of Endgame Cruiser Retrofit. INCLUDING locking out the Connie parts. Tried and Veto'd.
I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. We all would love some form of endgame Cruiser Retrofit, but it just won't happen.
I'm not denying that. I'm asking for a change to a game that has been changed many times.
There is nothing to be "sorry" for. This is a thread on a video game forum asking for a space ship. It's not some "big deal", just a request. If you agree, fine. If you don't, that's also fine.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I would like to point out THIS particular line you bypassed. We've tried. MANY TIMES. Hence why Endgame Connie (in any form) is part of the FCT. What your suggesting has been tried time and time again. If it didn't happen before, it ain't happening now. Its the same argument that has been explored.
No, I'm not with you, because that statement is COMPLETELY UNTRUE. It's not a coincidence those parts can be used on the Connie skeleton... they were MADE SPECIFICALLY to fit on that skeleton. Otherwise Fedies would have something like 25 nacelle choices on ever single ship in the roster.
Other than the trifling fact it's specifically and inextricably built on a connie skeleton. Making it a connie variant with zero room for finagling about the hard reality of the underlying code.
Dude. The ship is dead and has been in its grave SEVEN YEARS NOW. Maybe we'll see more circular saucers in the future... thought frankly Crypic has shied away from that in such an amazingly consistent way that the observant player has probably noticed they don't want even the slightest wiff of 'looks faintly like a connie' on anything they design and have to submit to CBS's scrutiny.
I think you're really failing to grasp how thoroughly the well has been poisoned. The grass has died in a half mile radius around it and even the dead patch dares not be circular for fear of looking like a Connie.