I think the foes in this might be the Alt-verse Borg. The original idea of the Borg was they were supposed to be insect like with a hive mind and that proved to be too expensive for TV so they went with the cheaper cybernetic foes we know of. In several of the shots there seems to be something swarming the enterprise. I could be wrong though
Yeah, my take was that the ship got ripped apart by getting rammed by HUNDREDS of small ships the size of shuttles. Then the crew hits the escape pods and some of them make it to the planet alive.
Then the crew hits the escape pods and some of them make it to the planet alive.
Actually if that scene of all those people in blue, red, and yellow is any indication, I'd say a large number of Enterprise's crew makes it to the planet alive.
And here I was thinking Trek couldn't be crapped on any more and any worse than it already had been via JJ Trek....
This doesn't even look to be bargain bin WalMart material... makes the last Fantastic Four reboot look like Citizen Kane.
No matter how it turns out, I'll go on to Megacritic and give it a thumbs up, then send you a screenshot.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
I still haven't seen anything as unwatchable as Insurrection, the one Trek movie I would've walked out on if that hadn't meant not having a ride.
Yeah, that's about right for me... although, I didn't know it at the time. I watched the movie in the theater, bought the novelization, bought the soundtrack, even got some behind-the-scenes books about it for Christmas. I didn't give a flip about the movie two months later, however... I never bought the movie to own, began losing interest in Voyager...
Nemesis? That's the one I skipped completely. Mix in half of the first season of Enterprise... Yep, probably all started with Insurrection, sadly.
Seriously, for you to call it "not even bargain bin Walmart material" after a trailer that barely tells us anything about the film?
Ridiculous hyperbole.
I stand by my opinion. This looks horrible to me. A definite pass.
You can certainly do that.
You also sound like your blinded by Abrams Hate. Or, perhaps... Justin Lin hate. Or, perhaps... Beastie Boys hate.
Tricorder scans or diplomacy talks make for bad movie trailers. Just sayin'.
To be honest, the inclusion of said track, while a nice touch to Star Trek 09, makes about as much sense in verse, as Dom and Han cruising off to pull a job while listening to Track One, Side One, of Beethoven's 5th Symphony... I doubt all the musicians in the 23rd century were Space Hippies... TNG at least gave us the Alba Ra
If ya think about it, the song harkening back to when Kirk stole the car as a kid is very clever ...
It seems to indicate that they are going for a story plot that kinda gives us a transition as to how he thinks and acts now as an adult, based on stuff he did as a wild-child.
Stealing that car was a Very Big Deal, and was almost certainly a defining moment in his life.
It's certainly something that he's never forgotten and very much fits with this universes Kirk mind-set of take action now and the consequences be damned.
I get the feeling that the trailers opening scene, is one in which they are probably "borrowing" someone else's ship and in his mind that particular piece of music is most apropos.
If McCoy is in that scene, he's probably rolling his eyes. (cause you know Jim told McCoy all about the car incident)
No... CLEARLY, it's just Fast & Furious IN SPAAAACE! Obviously, that scene is where Vin Diesel makes his secret guest appearance, followed quickly by Kirk and Vin doing bike flips over space trucks while ramming two hover cars.
Seriously, good connection there, thematically... too bad Internet won't take two seconds to make that connection with you, no sir... they showed us three seconds of motorbike footage behind a bed of that dag-burn rock & roll, hippity-hop music the kids are into, so we can all dismiss this film outright.
Kirk really has to get his TRIBBLE together. His Starship insurance must be through the roof.
I think he's blacklisted by Starfleet Insurance
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Seriously, for you to call it "not even bargain bin Walmart material" after a trailer that barely tells us anything about the film?
Ridiculous hyperbole.
I stand by my opinion. This looks horrible to me. A definite pass.
You can certainly do that.
You also sound like your blinded by Abrams Hate. Or, perhaps... Justin Lin hate. Or, perhaps... Beastie Boys hate.
Tricorder scans or diplomacy talks make for bad movie trailers. Just sayin'.
To be honest, the inclusion of said track, while a nice touch to Star Trek 09, makes about as much sense in verse, as Dom and Han cruising off to pull a job while listening to Track One, Side One, of Beethoven's 5th Symphony... I doubt all the musicians in the 23rd century were Space Hippies... TNG at least gave us the Alba Ra
If ya think about it, the song harkening back to when Kirk stole the car as a kid is very clever ...
It seems to indicate that they are going for a story plot that kinda gives us a transition as to how he thinks and acts now as an adult, based on stuff he did as a wild-child.
Stealing that car was a Very Big Deal, and was almost certainly a defining moment in his life.
It's certainly something that he's never forgotten and very much fits with this universes Kirk mind-set of take action now and the consequences be damned.
I get the feeling that the trailers opening scene, is one in which they are probably "borrowing" someone else's ship and in his mind that particular piece of music is most apropos.
If McCoy is in that scene, he's probably rolling his eyes. (cause you know Jim told McCoy all about the car incident)
Oh for sure, that makes sense... The idea of rolling to what will be some seriously antiquated music, on the other hand, not so much... Then again... Rolling to Ride of the Valkyries would be pretty badass... Objection withdrawn...
So I saw the trailer and...kind of hard to judge from that. I don't really get a sense of what the plot will be, but I don't see any reason right now to avoid it.
Yeah, kinda like that. It looks like it could be a fun movie. Not neccessarily what I expect or want from a Star Trek movie, but something I might still enjoy. We'll see. Or we won't. Everyone has he prefers.
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First grab attention with action, then go in with the deeper philosophical moral conundrum plots that Star Trek can have.
Considering the lack of those in the first two JJ Trek Movies, I won't hold my breath. Don't get me totally wrong, I don't think JJ Trek have been bad movies, just horrible Star Trek. From "They totally violated the Temporal Prime Directive, oh wells!" to "We can instantly beam 100's of light years away but still travel around in ships that takes days/weeks to do the same!" to "Magical Blood raises the dead!" The totally terrible science is eye-rollingly bad in these Trek outings. I'm hoping the new TV series returns to a more Trek exploration of the human condition and the hard ethical dilemmas that we face, and what we can aspire to be.
So, not a total bash on JJ Trek, it's execution would make for a great Star Wars film, and as an also Star Wars fan, that has me excited.
Protomatter can turn a dead world or a nebula into a planet where life rapidly evolves within weeks or months.
Some genetic mumbo-jumbo can turn humans into spiders and Klingons into targ.
Flying around a sun allows time travel.
An ancient human probe falls into a wormhole and is turned into a giant supermachine that can annihilate worlds for digitalization.
Blood of a genetically augmented human can fix radiation poisoning and little children.
A pill can regrow people's kidney.
Viruses that grow to human size.
Can you spot the ideas from JJ Trek?
The 100 light year beaming seems quite possible in the Trek Universe - the Dominion seems to have long range beaming capability, at least the first time we encounter them. (It seems forgotten tech.) The real problem is not the idea itself, but that it would imply significant changes in the world if that feat is easily repeatable.
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Take it on balance. Where are the good ideas from reboot Trek? For all the weirdness the old shows/movies got up to they had some redeeming social comments, technical thingies, and plot conventions. I personally don't think you can say that for anything in the reboot universe (it's somewhere on the back side of the scale from neutral to pretty stupid, so treat the comparison as between that range and the full distribution of the original property) :P
I really wasn't a fan of Nemesis at the time but I do have to say that it holds up pretty well after you've seen both of the new movies. There's genuine subtlety and depth there plus a restrained but still striking visual tone that has more of an impact than any of the thin hyper-flash-kerpow! nonsense from the new movies. It has some kind of a point, the willingness to carry it through to the end of the movie, and involve it with the action scenes in a treatment of the audience which isn't thoroughly patronizing (and perhaps a bit insulting) to humanity (people didn't seem to have any trouble with The Martian after all. The key is presentation, not content.)
Those still might not have been good points compared to previous Star Trek things and other great Sci-fi movies but as a re-implementation of Star Trek to fit a "movie of the times" Nemesis (and I'll throw Insurrection in as well) are immensely more watchable than what's being produced now (which I will hold up Into Darkness as a legitimately bad action movie in addition to being inappropriate to the franchise. No competent film should have a dysfunctional citation as its central plot development.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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It looks stupid. Then again, only four of the Trek films weren't stupid. No, nothing past 6 is included in that four. Anyway, looks like more of the same JJ Trek. Those who liked it (they of poor taste) will still like it. Those who refuse to accept that smart Trek is actually the outlier will continue to hate it.
You're kind of moving the goalposts there, duncan. The "good ideas from the reboot" are the same as the "good ideas" from the originals - none of which were developed in the movies. (Instead, the movies gave us such wonders as Data forgetting that each of the shuttles aboard the Enterprise has an independent transporter system, and he could have pulled Picard back easily without that stupid ramming-and-boarding thing that would have been regarded as unforgivably risky in the 18th-century "wet" navy on Earth, where at least there would have been something to breathe after the collision...)
Looked at in their own right, ST09 is IMO a better movie, and a better Star Trek, than anything in the theaters since First Contact, and STID, while having stupid moments to match its moments of brilliance (the moral and ethical dilemma faced by Kirk - is violation of the Prime Directive justified when the alternative is extinction? Does a jumped-up junior officer dare disobey the orders given him by a full admiral, even when such orders might well lead to interstellar war? He's just discovered the payloads of the missiles are sapient beings; should it make a difference that each and every one of them was an international criminal on Earth some three hundred years before, and would likely not object to trying to overthrow the Federation today? - were glossed over in favor of silly ideas like interstellar beaming, "cold fusion" devices that have nothing to do with cold fusion, and secret massive starships built with no one's knowledge), was at least better than the incredibly inconsistent characterizations of both the Enterprise personnel and Starfleet itself in ST:V or Insurrection.
And I'm willing to give this movie a shot, remembering that the first trailer was put together to be shown along with the new Star Wars movie, and thus was aimed at a SW audience. Not a lot of room for two minutes of thoughtful dialog in that situation.
"cold fusion" devices that have nothing to do with cold fusion,
I always assumed that it has everything to do with fusion - fusing things together - and making them cold; it just has nothing to do with atomic cold fusion, and only our primitive 21st-century viewpoint assumes that it does.
Looked at in their own right, ST09 is IMO a better movie, and a better Star Trek, than anything in the theaters since First Contact, and STID, while having stupid moments to match its moments of brilliance (the moral and ethical dilemma faced by Kirk - is violation of the Prime Directive justified when the alternative is extinction? Does a jumped-up junior officer dare disobey the orders given him by a full admiral, even when such orders might well lead to interstellar war? He's just discovered the payloads of the missiles are sapient beings; should it make a difference that each and every one of them was an international criminal on Earth some three hundred years before, and would likely not object to trying to overthrow the Federation today? - were glossed over in favor of silly ideas like interstellar beaming, "cold fusion" devices that have nothing to do with cold fusion, and secret massive starships built with no one's knowledge), was at least better than the incredibly inconsistent characterizations of both the Enterprise personnel and Starfleet itself in ST:V or Insurrection.
I have to agree that despite its flaws (especially with women: Carol Marcus fanservice, Uhura's domestic spat and talk to the hand to a superior officer, etc.), Into Darkness had enough to keep me watching.
And here I am about to commit the ultimate Star Trek fan heresy: I actually think that despite the failure to explain what happened to the Cumberkhan's appearance IN the movie (which I actually think that, if properly explained, could have really given Benedict Cumberbatch a chance to really run with it as an actor in expressing the violation committed on him to alter him so drastically), J.J. did better with Khan as a character. As I've said in another thread recently, I much prefer villains that make me stop and think about their motives and have to wonder whether or not I would cross the line if I were in that kind of situation myself. The Wrath of Khan version of Khan...he was just nuts, and while don't get me wrong, it's fun to watch Ricardo Montalban, that character is much more cartoonish to me. In contrast, as treacherous as JJ's Khan is, there are actually moments where he has you wondering what he's going to do and if Kirk and Spock narrowly missed an opportunity to make things play out drastically differently in his universe compared to the Prime Universe. You actually have to wonder if Spock's phone call created a self-fulfilling prophecy as opposed to it always being "destined" to play out that way.
Yep, that's right, STID actually made me THINK, about something other than the parts that it admittedly did have wrong. TWOK...like I said, not a bad movie at all, and watchable, but it did not get me to do that at all.
(And then as I've mentioned before, STID was graced by what I now consider one of the two best scores any Star Trek film has EVER had, tying with Jerry Goldsmith's work in First Contact. I will be seeing the score performed live with the movie next year and I have zero "remorse" about my time or money going to that, nor did I with a live performance of the 2009 score, which, while not on THAT level, was IMO quite good. Window dressing to a lot of people, I know, but as much as I love film scores, to me that's a fairly big deal. )
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Before I say this, let me be clear that I'm not referring to any specific person, just speaking generally. That said, some people care WAY too much about what other people think about the things they like. If you like some movie/book/game/etc, it makes ABSOLUTELY no difference whether someone else likes it or not. Only an insecure person needs their entertainment choices validated by other people. Also, there is no winning an argument/debate regarding subjective taste. You can write the most well thought-out essay in the history of the world, and it won't make you any more "right" than the person that simply didn't enjoy a movie you did. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is a "good" movie. If you like something, great. Just don't get your panties in a wad about whether other people agree with you. And vice versa.
This garbage is what we get when Hollywood demands that sci-fi movies appeal to a mass audience. From what I read, the original script was thrown out because it was too much like Star Trek, and this is the garbage that came after.
This garbage is what we get when Hollywood demands that sci-fi movies appeal to a mass audience. From what I read, the original script was thrown out because it was too much like Star Trek, and this is the garbage that came after.
Well, for what it's worth... the trailer clearly gives writing credit to Orci, Payne, and McKay (the original writers of the film)...
... which means that enough of their ideas were used in the film script to warrant credit. Since credit equals dollar signs for the studio, they wouldn't do that unless they had to.
This garbage is what we get when Hollywood demands that sci-fi movies appeal to a mass audience. From what I read, the original script was thrown out because it was too much like Star Trek, and this is the garbage that came after.
Then you read incorrectly. The original script was thrown out because it was written by Orci and Kurtzman, the men responsible for ST09 and STID, and reportedly even Kurtzman didn't like the script they turned in for this. (Keep in mind that Kurtzman was okay with the scripts they did for Transformers: Dark of the Moon and Amazing Spider-Man 2.) When Orci quit/was fired (depending on who you believe), the studio apparently seized this opportunity to drop the albatross and get the script rewritten heavily, largely by Simon "Scotty" Pegg.
This garbage is what we get when Hollywood demands that sci-fi movies appeal to a mass audience. From what I read, the original script was thrown out because it was too much like Star Trek, and this is the garbage that came after.
Then you read incorrectly. The original script was thrown out because it was written by Orci and Kurtzman, the men responsible for ST09 and STID, and reportedly even Kurtzman didn't like the script they turned in for this. (Keep in mind that Kurtzman was okay with the scripts they did for Transformers: Dark of the Moon and Amazing Spider-Man 2.) When Orci quit/was fired (depending on who you believe), the studio apparently seized this opportunity to drop the albatross and get the script rewritten heavily, largely by Simon "Scotty" Pegg.
I don't think Kurtzman was ever involved with this movie. The original script was written by Orci, J.D. Payne, and Patrick McKay... and enough of it was saved to warrant them still receiving credit.
I'm skeptical about the details of all of this, too... a lot of it felt like hearsay or rumor.
Take it on balance. Where are the good ideas from reboot Trek? F
I think Wrath of Khan 2 aka Into Darkness was pretty good in the moral dilemmas it talked about, and its allegory on drone warfare.
Both movies have one wonderful aspect: Spock & Uhura. It's not a completely new idea, it was kinda discussed in the novels and some scenes in TOS implied something could be going on there.
But one of the biggest mysteries in Star Trek is how so allegedly completely logical thinking beings even manage to create functioning and loving relationships, especially with humans that tend to expect emotional closeness.
I admit that Sarek and Amanda are the bigger mystery, and the movies haven't really gone in depth about how it works (and ID does most of it), but i think it at least gives hints on how it works.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Before I say this, let me be clear that I'm not referring to any specific person, just speaking generally. That said, some people care WAY too much about what other people think about the things they like. If you like some movie/book/game/etc, it makes ABSOLUTELY no difference whether someone else likes it or not. Only an insecure person needs their entertainment choices validated by other people. Also, there is no winning an argument/debate regarding subjective taste. You can write the most well thought-out essay in the history of the world, and it won't make you any more "right" than the person that simply didn't enjoy a movie you did. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so is a "good" movie. If you like something, great. Just don't get your panties in a wad about whether other people agree with you. And vice versa.
[sarcasm] How dare you present a rational, reasonable, and intelligent opinion? [/sarcasm]
Take it on balance. Where are the good ideas from reboot Trek? F
I think Wrath of Khan 2 aka Into Darkness was pretty good in the moral dilemmas it talked about, and its allegory on drone warfare.
Both movies have one wonderful aspect: Spock & Uhura. It's not a completely new idea, it was kinda discussed in the novels and some scenes in TOS implied something could be going on there.
But one of the biggest mysteries in Star Trek is how so allegedly completely logical thinking beings even manage to create functioning and loving relationships, especially with humans that tend to expect emotional closeness.
I admit that Sarek and Amanda are the bigger mystery, and the movies haven't really gone in depth about how it works (and ID does most of it), but i think it at least gives hints on how it works.
Well, the impression I got from TOS was that Vulcans didn't always act the same all the time. IE, when it was just the two of them Sarek would act differently than in public.
Take it on balance. Where are the good ideas from reboot Trek? F
I think Wrath of Khan 2 aka Into Darkness was pretty good in the moral dilemmas it talked about, and its allegory on drone warfare.
Both movies have one wonderful aspect: Spock & Uhura. It's not a completely new idea, it was kinda discussed in the novels and some scenes in TOS implied something could be going on there. But one of the biggest mysteries in Star Trek is how so allegedly completely logical thinking beings even manage to create functioning and loving relationships, especially with humans that tend to expect emotional closeness.
I admit that Sarek and Amanda are the bigger mystery, and the movies haven't really gone in depth about how it works (and ID does most of it), but i think it at least gives hints on how it works.
The first thing to remember, is that Vulcans are not emotionless...
The second, is that even in Human relationships, there are different formats... Some people are extremely demonstrative, some are not... Some folks go in for public displays of affection, others find them embarrassing or distasteful... Some couples share a bedroom, some do not... Marriage is not just a single cookie-cutter definition...
So, baring that in mind, it's by no means a stretch of the imagination for there to be a Human who may appeal to a Vulcan, and vice versa, due to compatible outlooks.
The relationship between Amanda and Sarek (in ToS) always came across as borderline abusive, racist and chauvenistic, with both Sarek and Spock openly mocking Amanda to her face. I don't recall any direct interaction between Amanda and Sarek in Search for Spock or Voyage Home (I wonder if they might even have separated) Their relationship was shown better in ST09, when Sarek explained to Spock why he had married Amanda, on both logical and emotional bases.
The relationship between Sarek and Perrin, never felt legitimate to me, more with Perrin being a 'live in carer', who had the 'privilege' of calling herself 'Mrs Sarek'.
Another Human/Vulcan relationship was seen in TNG between Doctor Christopher, and Doctor T'Pan, and I would suggest that their relationship, was actually the most understandable, as they were both scientists. T'Pan's age is a mystery, and could have been anything from possibly forties, to nearly two hundred, but Christopher was decidedly middle-aged. If he was a man who did not have to go around holding his wife's hand, might have been of an age where 'twice nightly' was a thing of the past, he may have found Marriage to T'Pan as 'less demanding' as to a Human woman. And equally, T'Pan may have appreciated Christopher for his intellect. Purely supposition, I admit, but I can see how they could work...
Justin Lin responds to the trailer criticisms:
“Well, its a minute and a half, you know… And again, there were other versions that were much more traditional and I can see where maybe the hardcore fans could probably see that as “Oh.” But with trailers you’re putting a two hour movie into a minute and a half, and the one thing I wanted to make sure is that it hopefully represents that we are trying to be bold and take risks, wether we are successful or not, I don’t know. That was something I was excited to do and with collaborators like Simon and Doug, passion for the franchise will be there regardless. So however its presented, yeah its a minute and a half, and my challenge to everyone making the trailer is about saying “lets not go off course, I’m not afraid to share — share it, I feel like we have the goods in a two hour run and you really do get to know the characters and hopefully the journey is great. I love it and the cast did an amazing job and the crew… and the inside baseball version of the creation of this Trek was pretty condensed in how you usually make a movie of this size. And I wanted us to be bold, I wanted us to take chances and hopefully in a minute and a half we are able to convey that."
As for those fans who think Lin might have made a Fast & Furious movie set in the Trek universe, Lin understands where the criticism is coming from:
"Yeah, and I don’t know if that’s the case here. When I saw the teaser, I’m like aw TRIBBLE. You really have to put the motorcycle in there? So I get it, I get it, I get it."
When someone else brings up the shot that looks very reminiscent of Letty-Dom flying through the air from the Fast & Furious films, Justin smiles and smirks “Yeah, well I’m who I am.”
Lin assures us that the song is in the film (“I wanted to make sure we didn’t do anything that was just trying to pump something else in”) and explains his reason for using the track in the teaser:
"Its in the DNA of this canon. It was in the ’09 Trek, and we went through different iterations of the teaser and I wanted to make sure whatever here is using all the elements from the film. Its been a part of this Kirk’s journey and so I felt it was very organic, and it will ultimately be in the finished film."
Lin's history with Trek:
"The one thing that was when I came on this [film project], I didn’t even realize how emotional my level of engagement with Trek was until the first day of preproduction when I walked into the hallway of the enterprise and it hit me. Its part of me but my level of engagement with Trek was really from 8 to 18 when I would watch Trek at 11pm on channel 13 with my Dad. He worked all day, closed shop at 9pm and dinner at 10 and watched Trek. And so a lot of that is trying to create something that embraces the essence of Trek for me. Simon [Pegg] has a very different level of engagement, and Doug also has a very different… so its awesome to get in there and have those collaborators and have that discourse about how we were going to craft this movie. Cause Simon, he knows EVERYTHING about Trek and its great to have those guys with me the whole way."
Where the title comes from:
"He kind of tracked me down and we’re talking and I didn’t know what to expect. I thought maybe he was offering to go shoot a script that existed or and he said, no, it’s yours. Go and be bold. And just take it. Be bold and make it what you think you would do to Star Trek. And the more we talked about it, the more we kept saying well let’s keep pushing. Let’s keep pushing. And that’s when Simon kind of said, well it should be Star Trek Beyond. And it was his idea. And it was kind of came from all our conversations. And we looked at each other and like oh, that sounds like the title of this film."
Inspired by the series:
"We were a working class family, so we didn’t really go to movies until I was older. To me Trek was just this element of exploration, every night there was another adventure. And kind of having that relationship throughout my life and when I went off to college and as an adult. Thats kind of where my relationship with Trek is. And what I really love is in the tv format you kind of get to know the characters regardless, they kind of become part of your family. And thats something thats always been with me, as a filmmaker, especially in ensembles. But you only have so much real estate, you only have two hours just like everybody else."
"But its also about going on that journey that JJ did with putting all these people together, but I wanted to hopefully create an opportunity or a situation where we can really see how they react to things and to each other. Those are things in all the years of watching Trek, we had hundreds of hours with the movies and stuff, in this timeline, I wanted to hopefully create something where we can be on the five year mission, we can hopefully explore and introduce new species and put them in situations where it hopefully then mirrors back on the exploration of humanity — I think thats important."
on bringing in elements from STID:
"I don’t know if we’re leaving it behind. And Simon and Doug and I definitely have had some, spent some time on that. But at the same time I feel like this, Star Trek’s been around 50 years. And I’m excited to be a part of it, but I’m also excited to be a participant, but hopefully to see where it’s gonna go. And I think every filmmaker comes on has a different point of view. And it’s a big universe that could support many different points of views and journeys and adventures. And so I totally embrace kind of what JJ brought ahead of me because he put, without him, this whole group wouldn’t have been together. So I’m always very kind of, I’m definitely very appreciative of that. And to have the opportunity to be able to kind of build on that, I think it’s something that we, it’s definitely now exists. I think the people that really care, you can’t ignore that. But at the same time, do we address that? I don’t discount it. Like we don’t sit there and say it doesn’t exist. It’s part of this universe now.
We pick [the crew] up about two and a half years after the end of Into Darkness. But there was many iterations where we did go and explore. At the end of the day, I just felt like we’re two and a half years in. What we shot and what’s gonna be in theaters, quantity wise it’s quite a bit. But then to be honest, I actually had even more beyond that. So that’s something that we definitely talked about and worked on. In the presentation of this film, it didn’t quite fit in."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Interesting... can't say I'm surprised by the response.
And though this has been beaten to death... why does everyone in Star Trek have to "defend" their level of fandom? Nick Meyer didn't give a TRIBBLE about Trek before TWOK...
In TOS, Kirk had a fascination with old Earth history, particularly the sailing-ship era.
In this universe, with a much rougher childhood, this Kirk has developed an interest in classical music from Earth's late 20th and early 21st centuries. (From a 23rd-century viewpoint, after all, the musical schools are going to start to blend together, just as today nobody will look askance at you for playing both baroque and rococo music.) I'm interested in how the other crewmembers react to his musical choices.
I actually swiped the idea from Larry Niven's novel Ringworld, set in the 2600s but written in 1970. At one point, Louis Wu is talking with a Pierson's puppeteer, whose voices (from its two necks) can reproduce almost any sound. The puppeteer asks Louis to hold on a moment while it thinks: "And then the puppeteer went off into Beethoven, or the Beatles, or something classical-sounding - for all Louis knew, he was making it up as he went along."
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Actually if that scene of all those people in blue, red, and yellow is any indication, I'd say a large number of Enterprise's crew makes it to the planet alive.
My character Tsin'xing
No matter how it turns out, I'll go on to Megacritic and give it a thumbs up, then send you a screenshot.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
Yeah, that's about right for me... although, I didn't know it at the time. I watched the movie in the theater, bought the novelization, bought the soundtrack, even got some behind-the-scenes books about it for Christmas. I didn't give a flip about the movie two months later, however... I never bought the movie to own, began losing interest in Voyager...
Nemesis? That's the one I skipped completely. Mix in half of the first season of Enterprise... Yep, probably all started with Insurrection, sadly.
No... CLEARLY, it's just Fast & Furious IN SPAAAACE! Obviously, that scene is where Vin Diesel makes his secret guest appearance, followed quickly by Kirk and Vin doing bike flips over space trucks while ramming two hover cars.
Seriously, good connection there, thematically... too bad Internet won't take two seconds to make that connection with you, no sir... they showed us three seconds of motorbike footage behind a bed of that dag-burn rock & roll, hippity-hop music the kids are into, so we can all dismiss this film outright.
I think he's blacklisted by Starfleet Insurance
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Can you spot the ideas from JJ Trek?
The 100 light year beaming seems quite possible in the Trek Universe - the Dominion seems to have long range beaming capability, at least the first time we encounter them. (It seems forgotten tech.) The real problem is not the idea itself, but that it would imply significant changes in the world if that feat is easily repeatable.
Take it on balance. Where are the good ideas from reboot Trek? For all the weirdness the old shows/movies got up to they had some redeeming social comments, technical thingies, and plot conventions. I personally don't think you can say that for anything in the reboot universe (it's somewhere on the back side of the scale from neutral to pretty stupid, so treat the comparison as between that range and the full distribution of the original property) :P
I really wasn't a fan of Nemesis at the time but I do have to say that it holds up pretty well after you've seen both of the new movies. There's genuine subtlety and depth there plus a restrained but still striking visual tone that has more of an impact than any of the thin hyper-flash-kerpow! nonsense from the new movies. It has some kind of a point, the willingness to carry it through to the end of the movie, and involve it with the action scenes in a treatment of the audience which isn't thoroughly patronizing (and perhaps a bit insulting) to humanity (people didn't seem to have any trouble with The Martian after all. The key is presentation, not content.)
Those still might not have been good points compared to previous Star Trek things and other great Sci-fi movies but as a re-implementation of Star Trek to fit a "movie of the times" Nemesis (and I'll throw Insurrection in as well) are immensely more watchable than what's being produced now (which I will hold up Into Darkness as a legitimately bad action movie in addition to being inappropriate to the franchise. No competent film should have a dysfunctional citation as its central plot development.)
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Carl Urban remains a charming man.
Looked at in their own right, ST09 is IMO a better movie, and a better Star Trek, than anything in the theaters since First Contact, and STID, while having stupid moments to match its moments of brilliance (the moral and ethical dilemma faced by Kirk - is violation of the Prime Directive justified when the alternative is extinction? Does a jumped-up junior officer dare disobey the orders given him by a full admiral, even when such orders might well lead to interstellar war? He's just discovered the payloads of the missiles are sapient beings; should it make a difference that each and every one of them was an international criminal on Earth some three hundred years before, and would likely not object to trying to overthrow the Federation today? - were glossed over in favor of silly ideas like interstellar beaming, "cold fusion" devices that have nothing to do with cold fusion, and secret massive starships built with no one's knowledge), was at least better than the incredibly inconsistent characterizations of both the Enterprise personnel and Starfleet itself in ST:V or Insurrection.
And I'm willing to give this movie a shot, remembering that the first trailer was put together to be shown along with the new Star Wars movie, and thus was aimed at a SW audience. Not a lot of room for two minutes of thoughtful dialog in that situation.
Oi. Galaxy Quest. A true Trek fan counts it as a Trek movie, and Quest isn't stupid, it's wonderful.
I always assumed that it has everything to do with fusion - fusing things together - and making them cold; it just has nothing to do with atomic cold fusion, and only our primitive 21st-century viewpoint assumes that it does.
I will grant you Galaxy Quest for its very true wonderfulness.
I have to agree that despite its flaws (especially with women: Carol Marcus fanservice, Uhura's domestic spat and talk to the hand to a superior officer, etc.), Into Darkness had enough to keep me watching.
And here I am about to commit the ultimate Star Trek fan heresy: I actually think that despite the failure to explain what happened to the Cumberkhan's appearance IN the movie (which I actually think that, if properly explained, could have really given Benedict Cumberbatch a chance to really run with it as an actor in expressing the violation committed on him to alter him so drastically), J.J. did better with Khan as a character. As I've said in another thread recently, I much prefer villains that make me stop and think about their motives and have to wonder whether or not I would cross the line if I were in that kind of situation myself. The Wrath of Khan version of Khan...he was just nuts, and while don't get me wrong, it's fun to watch Ricardo Montalban, that character is much more cartoonish to me. In contrast, as treacherous as JJ's Khan is, there are actually moments where he has you wondering what he's going to do and if Kirk and Spock narrowly missed an opportunity to make things play out drastically differently in his universe compared to the Prime Universe. You actually have to wonder if Spock's phone call created a self-fulfilling prophecy as opposed to it always being "destined" to play out that way.
Yep, that's right, STID actually made me THINK, about something other than the parts that it admittedly did have wrong. TWOK...like I said, not a bad movie at all, and watchable, but it did not get me to do that at all.
(And then as I've mentioned before, STID was graced by what I now consider one of the two best scores any Star Trek film has EVER had, tying with Jerry Goldsmith's work in First Contact. I will be seeing the score performed live with the movie next year and I have zero "remorse" about my time or money going to that, nor did I with a live performance of the 2009 score, which, while not on THAT level, was IMO quite good. Window dressing to a lot of people, I know, but as much as I love film scores, to me that's a fairly big deal.
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The-Grand-Nagus
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Well, for what it's worth... the trailer clearly gives writing credit to Orci, Payne, and McKay (the original writers of the film)...
... which means that enough of their ideas were used in the film script to warrant credit. Since credit equals dollar signs for the studio, they wouldn't do that unless they had to.
I don't think Kurtzman was ever involved with this movie. The original script was written by Orci, J.D. Payne, and Patrick McKay... and enough of it was saved to warrant them still receiving credit.
I'm skeptical about the details of all of this, too... a lot of it felt like hearsay or rumor.
Both movies have one wonderful aspect: Spock & Uhura. It's not a completely new idea, it was kinda discussed in the novels and some scenes in TOS implied something could be going on there.
But one of the biggest mysteries in Star Trek is how so allegedly completely logical thinking beings even manage to create functioning and loving relationships, especially with humans that tend to expect emotional closeness.
I admit that Sarek and Amanda are the bigger mystery, and the movies haven't really gone in depth about how it works (and ID does most of it), but i think it at least gives hints on how it works.
[sarcasm] How dare you present a rational, reasonable, and intelligent opinion? [/sarcasm]
My character Tsin'xing
The second, is that even in Human relationships, there are different formats... Some people are extremely demonstrative, some are not... Some folks go in for public displays of affection, others find them embarrassing or distasteful... Some couples share a bedroom, some do not... Marriage is not just a single cookie-cutter definition...
So, baring that in mind, it's by no means a stretch of the imagination for there to be a Human who may appeal to a Vulcan, and vice versa, due to compatible outlooks.
The relationship between Amanda and Sarek (in ToS) always came across as borderline abusive, racist and chauvenistic, with both Sarek and Spock openly mocking Amanda to her face. I don't recall any direct interaction between Amanda and Sarek in Search for Spock or Voyage Home (I wonder if they might even have separated) Their relationship was shown better in ST09, when Sarek explained to Spock why he had married Amanda, on both logical and emotional bases.
The relationship between Sarek and Perrin, never felt legitimate to me, more with Perrin being a 'live in carer', who had the 'privilege' of calling herself 'Mrs Sarek'.
Another Human/Vulcan relationship was seen in TNG between Doctor Christopher, and Doctor T'Pan, and I would suggest that their relationship, was actually the most understandable, as they were both scientists. T'Pan's age is a mystery, and could have been anything from possibly forties, to nearly two hundred, but Christopher was decidedly middle-aged. If he was a man who did not have to go around holding his wife's hand, might have been of an age where 'twice nightly' was a thing of the past, he may have found Marriage to T'Pan as 'less demanding' as to a Human woman. And equally, T'Pan may have appreciated Christopher for his intellect. Purely supposition, I admit, but I can see how they could work...
“Well, its a minute and a half, you know… And again, there were other versions that were much more traditional and I can see where maybe the hardcore fans could probably see that as “Oh.” But with trailers you’re putting a two hour movie into a minute and a half, and the one thing I wanted to make sure is that it hopefully represents that we are trying to be bold and take risks, wether we are successful or not, I don’t know. That was something I was excited to do and with collaborators like Simon and Doug, passion for the franchise will be there regardless. So however its presented, yeah its a minute and a half, and my challenge to everyone making the trailer is about saying “lets not go off course, I’m not afraid to share — share it, I feel like we have the goods in a two hour run and you really do get to know the characters and hopefully the journey is great. I love it and the cast did an amazing job and the crew… and the inside baseball version of the creation of this Trek was pretty condensed in how you usually make a movie of this size. And I wanted us to be bold, I wanted us to take chances and hopefully in a minute and a half we are able to convey that."
As for those fans who think Lin might have made a Fast & Furious movie set in the Trek universe, Lin understands where the criticism is coming from:
"Yeah, and I don’t know if that’s the case here. When I saw the teaser, I’m like aw TRIBBLE. You really have to put the motorcycle in there? So I get it, I get it, I get it."
When someone else brings up the shot that looks very reminiscent of Letty-Dom flying through the air from the Fast & Furious films, Justin smiles and smirks “Yeah, well I’m who I am.”
Lin assures us that the song is in the film (“I wanted to make sure we didn’t do anything that was just trying to pump something else in”) and explains his reason for using the track in the teaser:
"Its in the DNA of this canon. It was in the ’09 Trek, and we went through different iterations of the teaser and I wanted to make sure whatever here is using all the elements from the film. Its been a part of this Kirk’s journey and so I felt it was very organic, and it will ultimately be in the finished film."
Lin's history with Trek:
"The one thing that was when I came on this [film project], I didn’t even realize how emotional my level of engagement with Trek was until the first day of preproduction when I walked into the hallway of the enterprise and it hit me. Its part of me but my level of engagement with Trek was really from 8 to 18 when I would watch Trek at 11pm on channel 13 with my Dad. He worked all day, closed shop at 9pm and dinner at 10 and watched Trek. And so a lot of that is trying to create something that embraces the essence of Trek for me. Simon [Pegg] has a very different level of engagement, and Doug also has a very different… so its awesome to get in there and have those collaborators and have that discourse about how we were going to craft this movie. Cause Simon, he knows EVERYTHING about Trek and its great to have those guys with me the whole way."
Where the title comes from:
"He kind of tracked me down and we’re talking and I didn’t know what to expect. I thought maybe he was offering to go shoot a script that existed or and he said, no, it’s yours. Go and be bold. And just take it. Be bold and make it what you think you would do to Star Trek. And the more we talked about it, the more we kept saying well let’s keep pushing. Let’s keep pushing. And that’s when Simon kind of said, well it should be Star Trek Beyond. And it was his idea. And it was kind of came from all our conversations. And we looked at each other and like oh, that sounds like the title of this film."
Inspired by the series:
"We were a working class family, so we didn’t really go to movies until I was older. To me Trek was just this element of exploration, every night there was another adventure. And kind of having that relationship throughout my life and when I went off to college and as an adult. Thats kind of where my relationship with Trek is. And what I really love is in the tv format you kind of get to know the characters regardless, they kind of become part of your family. And thats something thats always been with me, as a filmmaker, especially in ensembles. But you only have so much real estate, you only have two hours just like everybody else."
"But its also about going on that journey that JJ did with putting all these people together, but I wanted to hopefully create an opportunity or a situation where we can really see how they react to things and to each other. Those are things in all the years of watching Trek, we had hundreds of hours with the movies and stuff, in this timeline, I wanted to hopefully create something where we can be on the five year mission, we can hopefully explore and introduce new species and put them in situations where it hopefully then mirrors back on the exploration of humanity — I think thats important."
on bringing in elements from STID:
"I don’t know if we’re leaving it behind. And Simon and Doug and I definitely have had some, spent some time on that. But at the same time I feel like this, Star Trek’s been around 50 years. And I’m excited to be a part of it, but I’m also excited to be a participant, but hopefully to see where it’s gonna go. And I think every filmmaker comes on has a different point of view. And it’s a big universe that could support many different points of views and journeys and adventures. And so I totally embrace kind of what JJ brought ahead of me because he put, without him, this whole group wouldn’t have been together. So I’m always very kind of, I’m definitely very appreciative of that. And to have the opportunity to be able to kind of build on that, I think it’s something that we, it’s definitely now exists. I think the people that really care, you can’t ignore that. But at the same time, do we address that? I don’t discount it. Like we don’t sit there and say it doesn’t exist. It’s part of this universe now.
We pick [the crew] up about two and a half years after the end of Into Darkness. But there was many iterations where we did go and explore. At the end of the day, I just felt like we’re two and a half years in. What we shot and what’s gonna be in theaters, quantity wise it’s quite a bit. But then to be honest, I actually had even more beyond that. So that’s something that we definitely talked about and worked on. In the presentation of this film, it didn’t quite fit in."
http://www.slashfilm.com/star-trek-beyond-criticisms/
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And though this has been beaten to death... why does everyone in Star Trek have to "defend" their level of fandom? Nick Meyer didn't give a TRIBBLE about Trek before TWOK...