I liked it too, but it should have just shown the Kobayashi Maru opening scenes to really make it a teaser set to the track, along with a Khan voice over.
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
People tend to over exaggerate Montalban's performance in TWOK simply because they really like the film.
You're doing the same thing for Cumberbatch.
The character is 2D and arguably a backwards steep from 'Space Seed', the only improvement I found was the lack of brown-face in TWOK.
I understood everything Harrison did and why, I hated him and sympathised with him at the appropriate moments. I saw him as a genius and as a physical threat. Khan has nothing to him but revenge, misplaced revenge as it was Khan who accepted the challenge of making a life on Ceti Alpha in the first place.
I had no problems understanding where Khan was coming from in TWOK and could sympathize with his position as well. Yes, he was blinded by his desire for revenge. That's his character. Given his options at the end of "Space Seed", I don't see it as a stretch as to why he opted for trying to build a life on Ceti Alpha V. It was his only option really.
I'm not over-exaggerating though, all the nuances I mentioned are evident in the film itself.
I'm also not saying I didn't understand him, only that he was bland compared to Harrison.
Regarding the differences in performance between Cumberbatch and Montalban, it's also worth considering that each of their characters had very different experiences since being unfrozen. Montalban's spent X amount of time marooned on a planet that suffered a cataclysm and saw his people slowly die(very cool story here). Cumberbatch was blackmailed into working for Marcus, and for a much shorter amount of time than Prime Khan was marooned. I actually think Montalban's character went slightly insane due to his experiences.
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
Harrison wasn't so much an intellectual force as Kirk is a bungling idiot in the JJ Trek films. Also, you'll recall Spock stating that Khan was "intelligent, but inexperienced". He may have been intellectually smarter than Kirk, but Kirk had far more practical experience which gave him the upper hand.
He designed the Vengeance and was playing Kirk and Marcus at the same time.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
^^^^ This...
MontalKhan had been reawakened for decades, yet was still stymied by obvious codes and simple three dimensional combat. CumberKhan, on the other hand, had been reawakened for less time, but was using the technology of the era like a native, capable of manipulating a Starfleet officer into being a suicide bomber, and basically had the upper hand in ever scenario (until Plot tried to make him its TRIBBLE...) He literally was, to use his own words, 'better... at everything...'*
*And this is from someone who absolutely despises JJ Abrams and his work...
You can call Kirk and Marcus buffoons, but Harrison khan was still able to design a ship that was superior to what the rest of the Starfleet engineers could make. And assuming the galactic powers were fairly evenly matched at the time in terms of ship tech, that makes Harrison Khan smarter than just about everyone.
That was less the plot and more that people really really underestimate Spock. You see contrary to most rather misplaced beliefs Spock can be quite ruthless when he needs to be, and if angered enough to lose control is very capable of literally ripping your head off.
That was less the plot and more that people really really underestimate Spock. You see contrary to most rather misplaced beliefs Spock can be quite ruthless when he needs to be, and if angered enough to lose control is very capable of literally ripping your head off.
Makes me think of the line in "Mirror, Mirror", when Spock is cautioning Sulu about excessive ruthlessness: " I do not want to command the Enterprise, but if it should befall me, I suggest you remember that my operatives would avenge my death - and some of them are Vulcans." Cut to Sulu visibly paling.
I found the trailer just appealing enough to give the movie a fair chance. It looks like they can squeeze the 10 buck out of me for this one. I care nothig for the 3D business. If it's not a coleseum with a holodeck in the middle it's not... wait, er, um, scratch all that. I obviously am in the wrong thread here. Which way is the Star Trek Beyond trailer thread?
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
^^^^ This...
MontalKhan had been reawakened for decades, yet was still stymied by obvious codes and simple three dimensional combat. CumberKhan, on the other hand, had been reawakened for less time, but was using the technology of the era like a native, capable of manipulating a Starfleet officer into being a suicide bomber, and basically had the upper hand in ever scenario (until Plot tried to make him its TRIBBLE...) He literally was, to use his own words, 'better... at everything...'*
*And this is from someone who absolutely despises JJ Abrams and his work...
Not "Khanberbatch?"
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
That was less the plot and more that people really really underestimate Spock. You see contrary to most rather misplaced beliefs Spock can be quite ruthless when he needs to be, and if angered enough to lose control is very capable of literally ripping your head off.
Spock? I was thinking about how Kirk and Scotty come up with the genius plan of shooting Khan in the back (likely while he was within augmented-earshot) and being surprised when he comes too feeling less-than-jovial I wonder how Carol Marcus' new hip settled in
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
^^^^ This...
MontalKhan had been reawakened for decades, yet was still stymied by obvious codes and simple three dimensional combat. CumberKhan, on the other hand, had been reawakened for less time, but was using the technology of the era like a native, capable of manipulating a Starfleet officer into being a suicide bomber, and basically had the upper hand in ever scenario (until Plot tried to make him its TRIBBLE...) He literally was, to use his own words, 'better... at everything...'*
*And this is from someone who absolutely despises JJ Abrams and his work...
Personally, I felt like Khan's much-touted intelligence in TWOK didn't really carry over into the story. Sure he had superhuman strength and a more powerful ship, but it always seemed to me that Kirk was out-thinking and out-maneuvering Khan at every turn (the trick with the shield codes, the "repair times," baiting Khan into the nebula). In ID, I got more of a sense of Harrison as a real intellectual force. He always read Kirk like a book, and until Spock pulled the trick with the torpedoes, had the Enterprise crew pretty much at has mercy by merely knowing what was going on better than they did.
Harrison wasn't so much an intellectual force as Kirk is a bungling idiot in the JJ Trek films. Also, you'll recall Spock stating that Khan was "intelligent, but inexperienced". He may have been intellectually smarter than Kirk, but Kirk had far more practical experience which gave him the upper hand.
This is exactly what I've always said. Also, you need to remember that in WoK Khan was out for revenge, and damn the consequences. People don't make good decisions when they're angry. (See Kirk in The Undiscovered Country)
Spacestar Insurance Company is going to charge Starfleet an ASTRONOMICAL fee for keeping their starships insured. Sulu could LOOSE his PILOT's License!!
Me too, LOL... just heard about it while listening to Trekcast.
Awesome! And to be honest, Beasty Boys came out when I was in high school, so I actually like their music from their FIRST album. But yeah, this is a sweet answer to "Beyond".
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
Me too, LOL... just heard about it while listening to Trekcast.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I'm not over-exaggerating though, all the nuances I mentioned are evident in the film itself.
I'm also not saying I didn't understand him, only that he was bland compared to Harrison.
That's because ID draws on 'Space Seed' not TWOK.
He designed the Vengeance and was playing Kirk and Marcus at the same time.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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MontalKhan had been reawakened for decades, yet was still stymied by obvious codes and simple three dimensional combat. CumberKhan, on the other hand, had been reawakened for less time, but was using the technology of the era like a native, capable of manipulating a Starfleet officer into being a suicide bomber, and basically had the upper hand in ever scenario (until Plot tried to make him its TRIBBLE...) He literally was, to use his own words, 'better... at everything...'*
*And this is from someone who absolutely despises JJ Abrams and his work...
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That was less the plot and more that people really really underestimate Spock. You see contrary to most rather misplaced beliefs Spock can be quite ruthless when he needs to be, and if angered enough to lose control is very capable of literally ripping your head off.
Not "Khanberbatch?"
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
This is exactly what I've always said. Also, you need to remember that in WoK Khan was out for revenge, and damn the consequences. People don't make good decisions when they're angry. (See Kirk in The Undiscovered Country)
Awesome! And to be honest, Beasty Boys came out when I was in high school, so I actually like their music from their FIRST album. But yeah, this is a sweet answer to "Beyond".
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.