The thing is, I don't see the upcoming fix to be something that would benefit PVP balance. From what I understand from dev comments, they are scaling up damage to compensate for the lost procs. Wouldn't that mean it would hit harder against a single target because it is now a single fixed bigger hit rather than smaller hits that are reliant on the number of torps that land? It'll be like the plasma DoTs vs plasma explosions from the embassy consoles.
The thing is, I don't see the upcoming fix to be something that would benefit PVP balance. From what I understand from dev comments, they are scaling up damage to compensate for the lost procs. Wouldn't that mean it would hit harder against a single target because it is now a single fixed bigger hit rather than smaller hits that are reliant on the number of torps that land? It'll be like the plasma DoTs vs plasma explosions from the embassy consoles.
Is this a wrong assumption?
Probably not, but it will really depend on the final numbers that we have yet to see or experience.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Honestly, that should be done...and I'm an avid user of plasmonic leech. There's just no down side to anything anymore. It's more op stuff pilled onto even more op stuff. That's the nature of sto unfortunately. The next op shiny to make money and any semblance of balance be damned.
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
So, as a customer, I don't appreciate these constant nerfs. It's not about 'relying on crutches or broken mechanics to win' (btw, please note that 'win' really only has meaning in PvP). I simply don't like my stuff getting devaluated all the time. It's like buying a Full HD monitor, only to find out, half a year later or so, that you received a forced firmware update to reduce it to 720p (not very realistic, fortunately, but you know what I mean). And then coming online to read snide remarks of it being my own fault because 'If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.' That is a lousy way to do business.
As it turns out, consulting with some experts, the Kemo nerf may not be as bad as I initially thought. For one, because dmg output will be slightly increased, to compensate (so, beam-only boats will likely see a small boost even, as a result). So, I could have saved me the trouble of writing this post altogether, LOL, but, in closing, I just wanted to put out my general thoughts on nerfs one more time. And add to that the hope that, one day, I will be allowed to keep the expensive stuff I bought, unnerfed.
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
So, as a customer, I don't appreciate these constant nerfs. It's not about 'relying on crutches or broken mechanics to win' (btw, please note that 'win' really only has meaning in PvP). I simply don't like my stuff getting devaluated all the time. It's like buying a Full HD monitor, only to find out, half a year later or so, that you received a forced firmware update to reduce it to 720p (not very realistic, fortunately, but you know what I mean). And then coming online to read snide remarks of it being my own fault because 'If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.' That is a lousy way to do business.
As it turns out, consulting with some experts, the Kemo nerf may not be as bad as I initially thought. For one, because dmg output will be slightly increased, to compensate (so, beam-only boats will likely see a small boost even, as a result). So, I could have saved me the trouble of writing this post altogether, LOL, but, in closing, I just wanted to put out my general thoughts on nerfs one more time. And add to that the hope that, one day, I will be allowed to keep the expensive stuff I bought, unnerfed.
When something severely unbalances the game to the point that it's almost a penalty NOT to have that item, then that item needs a serious hit from the nerf bat. When it was discovered that kemocite was staying active at all times even AFTER that power had expired, you can't honestly have expected them to let you keep it like that. There should have been no doubt in your mind that was getting fixed. Then there's also the fact that kemocite was lagging people out on its own.
When you see something that is that unbalanced and broken to the point kemocite is/was and you buy that ability knowing full well a nerf/fix is on the way, then it's purely on you. As you said you have no one to blame but yourself. I myself have a kemocite ii and I have to agree it needs to be addressed. It was just like the old embassy consoles before they were nerfed. When it was discovered how broken they were, they had to be fixed, there was no way around it. plasma doping had to die. In their current form the embassy consoles are still useful, they're just not terribly op like they were before. Like it or not, if you invest in something like kemocite knowing full well how broke it is/was then you have no legitimate reason to complain when it's eventually addressed.
Leaving broken abilities in the game is not a good way to do business either. especially when said ability lags other users out. kemocite has never been a problem, the bugs and what not with the ability are the issue.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
No way in hell is overcapping working as intended. I guess you could make a point that overcap does work as DPSers intend.
It's comments like these that make it very hard for me to take you serious. Overcapping has changed over the years, but its current 'reserve' mechanism is well-documented, and has been explained, by Bort et al., in great detail. And thus *IS* WAI.
I guess you could make a point that you don't like it because it's good. Doesn't make it any less WAI, though.
No way in hell is overcapping working as intended. I guess you could make a point that overcap does work as DPSers intend.
It's comments like these that make it very hard for me to take you serious. Overcapping has changed over the years, but its current 'reserve' mechanism is well-documented, and has been explained, by Bort et al., in great detail. And thus *IS* WAI.
I guess you could make a point that you don't like it because it's good. Doesn't make it any less WAI, though.
Overcapping has not changed since it was introduced. Geko said it was WAI but he explained it wrong so I don't think he even knows how it works. No other dev has made a comment on it since I've been playing.
EDIT: Geko explains it for beams. Cannons, however, cap out at 135 power while there seems to be no cap for beams. EPS helps but it seems more like a work around rather than something that is WAI. I would love to see cannons be able to overcap like beams do. In all honesty though, I don't think this will ever change. It's been around way too long and it seems like it's pretty deep in the code.
"But doesn't Cryptic tell us this isn't the case?" I'm not sure that's a sentence, so I'm not sure how to respond. But I think I understand what you are referring to.
You cannot get weapon power past 125 with batteries or powers. The power levels are pretty hard capped. That is, any power (say, a beam) that calculates damage based on your current weapon power level will never deal damage based on anything more than 125.
If you activate a buff that gives you more than 125 power, the power is still there, and you can draw from it. So, lets say:
You are at 50/125.
You activate a buff that gives you 50 power.
You will be at 100/125.
Weapons fire based on 100 weapon power.
If multiple weapons are fired, power will start to drain, and all weapons will subsequently deal less power.
However, let say:
You are at 100/125.
You activate a buff that gives you 50 power.
You will be at 125/125.
Weapons fire based on 125 weapon power.
If multiple weapons are fired, power will start to drain. However, you still have 25 unclaimed power from your buff, so that fills in. Your weapon power level wont drop below 125 until you deplete that buff. Once that happens, then power levels will drop below 125 power.
I'm pretty sure its working how its supposed to, but I haven't looked at that math in a long time. So there could be a problem, but I'm pretty sure its WAD. Haven't really thought about whether that should be changed or not.
Also... aux overcapping works for aux based science abilities.
Wait really? How does this happen when sci abilities don't drain aux power at all? Or are you talking about what happens when you use a skill like OSS?
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
What you probably will never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, as someone that also has spend hundreds of Dollars in this game and even owning Kemocite Laced Weaponry and many of the shiny toys.
It is not about jealousy or enviousness that people - including me - demand exceedingliny powerful stuff to be reigned in and balanced. It is about giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds, instead of forcing them onto a particular path with must-have abilities that are OP. It's about making the weak stronger and the overpowered weaker so they have a comparable level of power. So you can fly the ship you want, with a build you like, and not the only few builds that are highly competitive. So that people can play Carriers, Science Vessels, Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, Flight Deck Cruisers, Cannon, Beam or Torpedo Builds, that they can play a Romulan or an Andorian, that they can use Phaser Assault Rifles or Disruptor Compression Pistols - in short - there is more viable and competitive toys. So that no toy you worked for or paid for feels useless and obsolete.
If I need it to phrase in a purely materialistic view: It's also about protecting everyone's investment - so that you don't have to throw away the stuff you bought last month because this month stuff is of course even better and there is no reason to ever go back to the old TRIBBLE.
If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily keep buying the new stuff because it's better than the old, than they get away cheap. They don't need a group of competent game designers or good ship artists anymore. All they need is some trained monkey or an unpaid intern that can add another console or other numerical value to a ship or ability and press the "Release to C-Store" button. And then they can fire their programmer that put in the Release to C-Store button, while the managers are reeking in their yearly bonuses.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
What you probably will never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, as someone that also has spend hundreds of Dollars in this game and even owning Kemocite Laced Weaponry and many of the shiny toys.
It is not about jealousy or enviousness that people - including me - demand exceedingliny powerful stuff to be reigned in and balanced. It is about giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds, instead of forcing them onto a particular path with must-have abilities that are OP. It's about making the weak stronger and the overpowered weaker so they have a comparable level of power. So you can fly the ship you want, with a build you like, and not the only few builds that are highly competitive. So that people can play Carriers, Science Vessels, Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, Flight Deck Cruisers, Cannon, Beam or Torpedo Builds, that they can play a Romulan or an Andorian, that they can use Phaser Assault Rifles or Disruptor Compression Pistols - in short - there is more viable and competitive toys. So that no toy you worked for or paid for feels useless and obsolete.
If I need it to phrase in a purely materialistic view: It's also about protecting everyone's investment - so that you don't have to throw away the stuff you bought last month because this month stuff is of course even better and there is no reason to ever go back to the old TRIBBLE.
If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily keep buying the new stuff because it's better than the old, than they get away cheap. They don't need a group of competent game designers or good ship artists anymore. All they need is some trained monkey or an unpaid intern that can add another console or other numerical value to a ship or ability and press the "Release to C-Store" button. And then they can fire their programmer that put in the Release to C-Store button, while the managers are reeking in their yearly bonuses.
What you will probably never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, is that 'giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds' is, in itself, a MMO fallacy. Why, you ask? Because people will always gravitate towards an optimum. That is inherent to this type of game. Experts will always crunch the numbers, and figure out what the optimal build for something is. Like ppl did the math, and experiments, and found out beams are the optimal way to do DPS. Doesn't mean beams are OP. Yes, I know ppl think they are; but if you were to remove beams from the game altogether (or nerf em to death) a new optimum would arise (let the reality of that sink in for a moment). Much like once cannons were top-dog. So, what's happening is, that ppl are confusing optimum with OP. Whereas I'm saying, an optimum will *always* emerge, no matter how often you swing that nerf-bat, so why even swing it at all?!
So, while I'd love the notion of 'infinite diversity in infinite combinations,' in reality this will and *can* never happen. Not because Devs are allegedly lazy, but simply because players are smart (the top ones, that is). Those top-players soon enough figure out what consoles to best use together, until, ere long, an optimum is found. Those optima are simply based on logic. Like it makes sense to use consoles that stack CrtH/CritD. Or to use a Leech. So, in reality, there are really only a handful of truly viable builds. Naturally, top-pilots can outdo lousier players even in crappy white gear, but that changes nothing to the fact that they're not flying an optimum build (relative to themselves).
As for 'protecting everyone's investment,' nerfing toys that literally cost hundreds of millions of EC, is not protecting everyone's investment: that's just protecting the investment of those who couldn't afford the shiny toy (Kemo, in this case). See, the thing just is, Cryptic really *needs* to release toys that are better than the previous ones. Otherwise ppl have no incentive to buy the next shiny. To stay with my earlier example, ppl don't go and buy a new TV that is 'about as good' as their old one. There would be no point. Yes, that leads to power creep, but is inevitable.
Clearly broken stuff always needs to be fixed. Like plasma-doping was. And I didn't mind (in fact, I never even bothered to start using it, because I realized it was exploitative, and would be reigned in soon). Kemo was different, though. Kemo was designed to be 'exceedingly powerful.' And came in a lockbox (for which ppl pay RL money; aka, it's intrinsically fair to assume lockbox stuff is better than the rest). Turns out it was double proc-ing; so yeah, that was broken. But not in a way that was immediately obvious. See, me, I just look at the Devs. When something appears 'too good to be true,' I look at the Devs; and when, within a reasonable timeframe, they don't come out and say, 'Oopsie, this is broken. Expect a fix,' then I'm progressively going to assume the ability in question is either WAI, or not exactly WAI per se, but deemed fine 'as is' nonetheless. And then I buy it.
You understand, of course, I'm not talking here about Kemo exclusively, as it turns out this particular nerf will actually not be as bad as I initially thought (see my earlier post). But in principle, yes, I don't like nerfs. Especially not of stuff that comes out of a lockbox.
Kemo isn't a nerf, it's a fix. It was broken. It stacked wrong.
Same for the embassy consoles, which I'll add I use. I got given tips for a dps build, those consoles were one, I'd been out a few months and didn't realise they were broken. I kept them because the only person it harmed was the NPCs. However, I kept with me the knowledge that they were going to get fixed, I didn't cry about it.
Kind of funny though when my super glass cannon DPS boat that runs with the now fixed consoles and no kemo has higher dps than a lot with kemo.
I was once a casual pvp'er. That got ruined though by this power creep and the constant QQ from tools who think it's their God given right to use all the broken stuff and not have it fixed.
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
What you probably will never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, as someone that also has spend hundreds of Dollars in this game and even owning Kemocite Laced Weaponry and many of the shiny toys.
It is not about jealousy or enviousness that people - including me - demand exceedingliny powerful stuff to be reigned in and balanced. It is about giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds, instead of forcing them onto a particular path with must-have abilities that are OP. It's about making the weak stronger and the overpowered weaker so they have a comparable level of power. So you can fly the ship you want, with a build you like, and not the only few builds that are highly competitive. So that people can play Carriers, Science Vessels, Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, Flight Deck Cruisers, Cannon, Beam or Torpedo Builds, that they can play a Romulan or an Andorian, that they can use Phaser Assault Rifles or Disruptor Compression Pistols - in short - there is more viable and competitive toys. So that no toy you worked for or paid for feels useless and obsolete.
If I need it to phrase in a purely materialistic view: It's also about protecting everyone's investment - so that you don't have to throw away the stuff you bought last month because this month stuff is of course even better and there is no reason to ever go back to the old TRIBBLE.
If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily keep buying the new stuff because it's better than the old, than they get away cheap. They don't need a group of competent game designers or good ship artists anymore. All they need is some trained monkey or an unpaid intern that can add another console or other numerical value to a ship or ability and press the "Release to C-Store" button. And then they can fire their programmer that put in the Release to C-Store button, while the managers are reeking in their yearly bonuses.
What you will probably never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, is that 'giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds' is, in itself, a MMO fallacy. Why, you ask? Because people will always gravitate towards an optimum.
You assume that I am expecting perfection in balance. I don't. I expect the extremes to be reigned in. I expect Cryptic to keep working on the problem.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
PVP is dead. I have accepted that. You should as well. Back in the days PVP was fun, PVE was rubbish and full of noobs. PVP got killed with DR, and PVE became fun because of all the DPS that is possible now. The remaining PVP players are mostly loonies who cant stop "playing" that broken PVP mode. It is so broken it should be removed now. It can not be fixed dont matter how much you are whining for nerfs. And besides that, this is not the only game were PVPers are the reason for nerfs. Its exactly the same in ED. They are the reason a gigantic cruiser can be killed with a little fighter ship. PVP is a plague now.
They will probably never remove PvP as there are people that buy Zen to get new ships or traits for being able to play what is left of PvP or to acquire newest powercreep (take Zahl ship trait as an example) if they cannot buy it directly with their EC
Beside this, PvPers aren't always the reason for things to get fixed/nerfed/whatever
PvPers are to blame for nerfs NOT the fact that stuff is released with the purposeful intent of being OP to drive sales and ingame purchases just so said materials can be nerfed later so in turn "NEW" (lottery) lockboxes can be released later for more sales...
Think about it.
If you honestly think that you can catch 100% of the bugs 100% of the time you're fooling yourself. It wasn't "made OP to drive sales" as you say. The ability was bugged which will happen from time to time with mmos and large games, something will be bugged once in awhile. If the devs release a statement telling you something was bugged (as if it wasn't already obvious with kemocite) and you buy the ability anyways, you have no right to complain because you should've known better.
It's being fixed because it's borked beyond belief just as the old embassy consoles were. It amazes me at how many people in this thread (and in general) have groaned and complained about the kemocite fixes just as it amazed me how many groaned and complained about the embassy console nerfs/fixes. When something is borked then it gets fixed, all mmos do this. it shouldn't come as a surprise when it happens yet soo many people groan and complain when it does happen. I honestly can't understand the mentality behind it. kemocite isn't the problem, it's the bugs with kemocite that are.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
The embassy consoles weren't fixed tho. They weren't criting with cannons like they were with beams so rather then fix it so they could they made them both incapable of criting. This was done because cryptic had no idea how to fix it. Their words not mine.
That statement -- as so many others in this thread -- lacks nuance. While I doubt there's a real conspiracy going on to make stuff OP 'to drive up sales,' it's ere a convenient laziness. More of a "Let's make boatloads of money now, and worry about getting it right later." deal. And that nerf-after-the-fact policy works flawlessly for them: you only have to watch peeps eagerly flock to this thread alone to see why Cryptic always gets away with it. And then some. People are tumbling over themselves here to do the dirty work for them. To paraphrase one of the earlier detractors, "If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily let them nerf new stuff, then they get away cheap." Rather, by insisting they stick to the deal, I want them to think before releasing the next shiny, and then to come up with something we can, by and large, rely on.
If the devs release a statement telling you something was bugged (as if it wasn't already obvious with kemocite) and you buy the ability anyways, you have no right to complain because you should've known better.
Ha! Did you really mean to say that?! Cuz you seem to make MY case for me:
See, me, I just look at the Devs. When something appears 'too good to be true,' I look at the Devs; and when, within a reasonable timeframe, they don't come out and say, 'Oopsie, this is broken. Expect a fix,' then I'm progressively going to assume the ability in question is either WAI, or not exactly WAI per se, but deemed fine 'as is' nonetheless. And then I buy it.
We saw no such statement from the Devs 'within a reasonable timeframe' (a year later doesn't count). So, you're essentially arguing ppl *do* have a right to complain. :P
Comments
Is this a wrong assumption?
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
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Way ahead of you....
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You can overcap cannons, it's just not as easy.
Also... overcapping and EPS is WAI.
I am a loyal customer. I usually spent at least $100 RL bucks a month on this game. As such, I love buying expensive stuff/gear/abilities; that's part of the fun: getting something really good for your game. Yet I invariably run into a group forum users who wants to take others' stuff away, be it Surgical Strikes, Ionic Turbulance, Kemo, or whatever. And, honestly, this desire to see stuff nerfed has always baffled me. Me, I have literally never begrudged anyone their shiny toys, ever. I thought, at one point, that giving Romulans exclusive access to a full complement of SRO crew was a bit too much, and that everyone should essentially have access to the same (you know, like Roms having access to Reciprocity now too). Other than that, I don't care how fast you kill your NPCs. And I certainly never asked to see you nerfed. My philosophy has always been: if you have something really good, and I want it too, I will simply get it as well.
So, as a customer, I don't appreciate these constant nerfs. It's not about 'relying on crutches or broken mechanics to win' (btw, please note that 'win' really only has meaning in PvP). I simply don't like my stuff getting devaluated all the time. It's like buying a Full HD monitor, only to find out, half a year later or so, that you received a forced firmware update to reduce it to 720p (not very realistic, fortunately, but you know what I mean). And then coming online to read snide remarks of it being my own fault because 'If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.' That is a lousy way to do business.
As it turns out, consulting with some experts, the Kemo nerf may not be as bad as I initially thought. For one, because dmg output will be slightly increased, to compensate (so, beam-only boats will likely see a small boost even, as a result). So, I could have saved me the trouble of writing this post altogether, LOL, but, in closing, I just wanted to put out my general thoughts on nerfs one more time. And add to that the hope that, one day, I will be allowed to keep the expensive stuff I bought, unnerfed.
When something severely unbalances the game to the point that it's almost a penalty NOT to have that item, then that item needs a serious hit from the nerf bat. When it was discovered that kemocite was staying active at all times even AFTER that power had expired, you can't honestly have expected them to let you keep it like that. There should have been no doubt in your mind that was getting fixed. Then there's also the fact that kemocite was lagging people out on its own.
When you see something that is that unbalanced and broken to the point kemocite is/was and you buy that ability knowing full well a nerf/fix is on the way, then it's purely on you. As you said you have no one to blame but yourself. I myself have a kemocite ii and I have to agree it needs to be addressed. It was just like the old embassy consoles before they were nerfed. When it was discovered how broken they were, they had to be fixed, there was no way around it. plasma doping had to die. In their current form the embassy consoles are still useful, they're just not terribly op like they were before. Like it or not, if you invest in something like kemocite knowing full well how broke it is/was then you have no legitimate reason to complain when it's eventually addressed.
Leaving broken abilities in the game is not a good way to do business either. especially when said ability lags other users out. kemocite has never been a problem, the bugs and what not with the ability are the issue.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
It IS actually working as intended.
Also... aux overcapping works for aux based science abilities.
It's comments like these that make it very hard for me to take you serious. Overcapping has changed over the years, but its current 'reserve' mechanism is well-documented, and has been explained, by Bort et al., in great detail. And thus *IS* WAI.
I guess you could make a point that you don't like it because it's good. Doesn't make it any less WAI, though.
Overcapping has not changed since it was introduced. Geko said it was WAI but he explained it wrong so I don't think he even knows how it works. No other dev has made a comment on it since I've been playing.
EDIT: Geko explains it for beams. Cannons, however, cap out at 135 power while there seems to be no cap for beams. EPS helps but it seems more like a work around rather than something that is WAI. I would love to see cannons be able to overcap like beams do. In all honesty though, I don't think this will ever change. It's been around way too long and it seems like it's pretty deep in the code.
Here's the quote from page 4 in this thread. It's a pretty good read, especially after Geko's post. I wish @sarcasmdetector could go back in time and be a part of that conversation.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1129568/suppression-builds-are-easy-build-one-today/p1
Wait really? How does this happen when sci abilities don't drain aux power at all? Or are you talking about what happens when you use a skill like OSS?
Learning something new every day.
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
It is not about jealousy or enviousness that people - including me - demand exceedingliny powerful stuff to be reigned in and balanced. It is about giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds, instead of forcing them onto a particular path with must-have abilities that are OP. It's about making the weak stronger and the overpowered weaker so they have a comparable level of power. So you can fly the ship you want, with a build you like, and not the only few builds that are highly competitive. So that people can play Carriers, Science Vessels, Tactical Escorts, Battle Cruisers, Flight Deck Cruisers, Cannon, Beam or Torpedo Builds, that they can play a Romulan or an Andorian, that they can use Phaser Assault Rifles or Disruptor Compression Pistols - in short - there is more viable and competitive toys. So that no toy you worked for or paid for feels useless and obsolete.
If I need it to phrase in a purely materialistic view: It's also about protecting everyone's investment - so that you don't have to throw away the stuff you bought last month because this month stuff is of course even better and there is no reason to ever go back to the old TRIBBLE.
If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily keep buying the new stuff because it's better than the old, than they get away cheap. They don't need a group of competent game designers or good ship artists anymore. All they need is some trained monkey or an unpaid intern that can add another console or other numerical value to a ship or ability and press the "Release to C-Store" button. And then they can fire their programmer that put in the Release to C-Store button, while the managers are reeking in their yearly bonuses.
What you will probably never understand, but what I will try to explain anyway, is that 'giving people many options to get interesting and succesful builds' is, in itself, a MMO fallacy. Why, you ask? Because people will always gravitate towards an optimum. That is inherent to this type of game. Experts will always crunch the numbers, and figure out what the optimal build for something is. Like ppl did the math, and experiments, and found out beams are the optimal way to do DPS. Doesn't mean beams are OP. Yes, I know ppl think they are; but if you were to remove beams from the game altogether (or nerf em to death) a new optimum would arise (let the reality of that sink in for a moment). Much like once cannons were top-dog. So, what's happening is, that ppl are confusing optimum with OP. Whereas I'm saying, an optimum will *always* emerge, no matter how often you swing that nerf-bat, so why even swing it at all?!
So, while I'd love the notion of 'infinite diversity in infinite combinations,' in reality this will and *can* never happen. Not because Devs are allegedly lazy, but simply because players are smart (the top ones, that is). Those top-players soon enough figure out what consoles to best use together, until, ere long, an optimum is found. Those optima are simply based on logic. Like it makes sense to use consoles that stack CrtH/CritD. Or to use a Leech. So, in reality, there are really only a handful of truly viable builds. Naturally, top-pilots can outdo lousier players even in crappy white gear, but that changes nothing to the fact that they're not flying an optimum build (relative to themselves).
As for 'protecting everyone's investment,' nerfing toys that literally cost hundreds of millions of EC, is not protecting everyone's investment: that's just protecting the investment of those who couldn't afford the shiny toy (Kemo, in this case). See, the thing just is, Cryptic really *needs* to release toys that are better than the previous ones. Otherwise ppl have no incentive to buy the next shiny. To stay with my earlier example, ppl don't go and buy a new TV that is 'about as good' as their old one. There would be no point. Yes, that leads to power creep, but is inevitable.
Clearly broken stuff always needs to be fixed. Like plasma-doping was. And I didn't mind (in fact, I never even bothered to start using it, because I realized it was exploitative, and would be reigned in soon). Kemo was different, though. Kemo was designed to be 'exceedingly powerful.' And came in a lockbox (for which ppl pay RL money; aka, it's intrinsically fair to assume lockbox stuff is better than the rest). Turns out it was double proc-ing; so yeah, that was broken. But not in a way that was immediately obvious. See, me, I just look at the Devs. When something appears 'too good to be true,' I look at the Devs; and when, within a reasonable timeframe, they don't come out and say, 'Oopsie, this is broken. Expect a fix,' then I'm progressively going to assume the ability in question is either WAI, or not exactly WAI per se, but deemed fine 'as is' nonetheless. And then I buy it.
You understand, of course, I'm not talking here about Kemo exclusively, as it turns out this particular nerf will actually not be as bad as I initially thought (see my earlier post). But in principle, yes, I don't like nerfs. Especially not of stuff that comes out of a lockbox.
It was broken.
It stacked wrong.
Same for the embassy consoles, which I'll add I use.
I got given tips for a dps build, those consoles were one, I'd been out a few months and didn't realise they were broken.
I kept them because the only person it harmed was the NPCs.
However, I kept with me the knowledge that they were going to get fixed, I didn't cry about it.
Kind of funny though when my super glass cannon DPS boat that runs with the now fixed consoles and no kemo has higher dps than a lot with kemo.
I was once a casual pvp'er.
That got ruined though by this power creep and the constant QQ from tools who think it's their God given right to use all the broken stuff and not have it fixed.
Beside this, PvPers aren't always the reason for things to get fixed/nerfed/whatever
If you honestly think that you can catch 100% of the bugs 100% of the time you're fooling yourself. It wasn't "made OP to drive sales" as you say. The ability was bugged which will happen from time to time with mmos and large games, something will be bugged once in awhile. If the devs release a statement telling you something was bugged (as if it wasn't already obvious with kemocite) and you buy the ability anyways, you have no right to complain because you should've known better.
It's being fixed because it's borked beyond belief just as the old embassy consoles were. It amazes me at how many people in this thread (and in general) have groaned and complained about the kemocite fixes just as it amazed me how many groaned and complained about the embassy console nerfs/fixes. When something is borked then it gets fixed, all mmos do this. it shouldn't come as a surprise when it happens yet soo many people groan and complain when it does happen. I honestly can't understand the mentality behind it. kemocite isn't the problem, it's the bugs with kemocite that are.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
That statement -- as so many others in this thread -- lacks nuance. While I doubt there's a real conspiracy going on to make stuff OP 'to drive up sales,' it's ere a convenient laziness. More of a "Let's make boatloads of money now, and worry about getting it right later." deal. And that nerf-after-the-fact policy works flawlessly for them: you only have to watch peeps eagerly flock to this thread alone to see why Cryptic always gets away with it. And then some. People are tumbling over themselves here to do the dirty work for them. To paraphrase one of the earlier detractors, "If we were allowing Cryptic to get away with that, and happily let them nerf new stuff, then they get away cheap." Rather, by insisting they stick to the deal, I want them to think before releasing the next shiny, and then to come up with something we can, by and large, rely on.
Ha! Did you really mean to say that?! Cuz you seem to make MY case for me:
We saw no such statement from the Devs 'within a reasonable timeframe' (a year later doesn't count). So, you're essentially arguing ppl *do* have a right to complain. :P