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kemocite nerf and what it means for a spike build built around kemo and neutronic torp
tiberusceaser
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
im starting this thread for shear clarity of what this nerf will actually do to the player like myself who is using neutronic torp spread three and kemo and what the nerf will do to that. ive already tried and run stfs with out kemo and see a huge drop in dps so what that tells me is the nerf is going to make builds like mine completly useless and im going to have to get all new gear to run all beams to get anywhere when it comes to dps. ive made the grind more fun by using ts3 and kemo with nuetronic torp and now cryptic is going to make all my work getting kemo and upgrading my torp and consoles complety wasted and it might just push me away from a game ive been playing for 3 to 4 years now and i think there are people out there who think the same thing. if its a true fix of teh double proc im fine with that but other than that i see kemo as working as intended when it was realesed and this has happened before with plasma weps and teh plasma sci consoles being nerfed when those things made the game fun for alot of people and people put hard earned resources into getting that gear to the highest level only to have it rendered useless. all i have to ask is why cryptic why?
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Things change.
Also, it helps not to build around an extremely broken and OP ability. Those almost always get changed, sooner or later.
Instead of triggering for every target of a torpedo spread, and then producing an AoE that affects targets, it will only trigger on the primary target (the one that you have currently targeted), and the AoE will go from there.
In addition, Torpedo Spread will also buff the Kemocite damage (which it didn't before).
What the exact numerical effects will be we won't know until it is on some test server.
Otherwise, I can only suggest listening to id0licious.
If something looks broken, or too good to be true, it probably is, and at some point, Cryptic will likely fix it. Especially if it also affects game performance radically, as Kemocite seems to do.
Use broken stuff as much as you like if you must, but don't trust it.
-Spock
And I hope you bought it (and multiple copies) early so you had a good long time to enjoy it.
Unfortunately the joy ride is over. And hopefully with it, the massive lag spikes associated with the combo you described using.
Good Riddance !
So maybe you understand the uncertainty in using torp plus kemo. I used it since Release of kemo way before it was public that its Not worKing as intended. Torps need a buff so Do cannons. Since release of s11 i believe devs will Show some love to torps and kemo in further changes. But i was Wrong at the t6 defiant as well. So we will see
My understanding was that it was double-proccing on single hits and that was what was going to be fixed. I also thought it was intended that since BFAW hits multiple targets that each hit on a target should have a chance to proc.
Nerfing it to only proc on your targeted enemy would be far too heavy handed and defeats the purpose of it comboing with AOE abilities. If that's the case I will be voting with my wallet and won't be spending another dime in STO.
But I would rather hear from a dev. I don't see how rage against double-proccing could turn into "we can only fix this by removing it's ability to proc with AOE skills so it's a single target only ability now".
Yah like anyone right now wants to loose sales over a few yellow bursts of very expensive Kemocite.
"Just a quick heads-up here, we're making some changes to the functionality of Quantum Phase Torpedo and how it interacts with Torpedo: Spread.
As many of you are aware, a Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread currently triggers a shield drain AoE for each torpedo which hits a target. We've changed how the Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread works to only trigger off your main target for when you fired the spread. Once the change goes to Holodeck, you'll see Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread trigger one AoE, centered around the main target. This AoE will have a 4km radius and significantly improved damage compared to the standard shield drain AoE.
We're making a similar change to Kemocite-Laced Weaponry, where Torpedo: Spread will only trigger one Kemocite Explosion for each torpedo which hits the main target. The spread-based Kemocite Explosions will also deal increased damage compared to the Kemocite Explosion from a standard torpedo.
These changes are partly for balance purposes (in a target-rich environment these abilities were rather out-of-hand), and partly for performance purposes.
The functionality of these abilities with other Torpedo abilities is unchanged. "
I think that's too heavy-handed. KLC should only trigger one explosion for each torpedo on each target. The problem as I understood it was that it was triggering multiple explosions for each torpedo on each target.
If the devs are reading this I ask that you please go easy on the nerfs. This type of thing only drives customers away.
As someone who would like torpedoes to get some boosts, the price kemo-spread forces others to pay is just too high, assuming I must pay it myself or not. More base damage, a built in critH or critD boost, hitting more of the meat as they hit 50% shields or less, but not this literally game breaking legitimized exploit.
Good Riddance indeed. The fix could not come soon enough.
I've never had lag while using KLW. I've also been in groups where multiple people have been using it (CCA for example) and not had any lag. But I have a nice PC with a nice graphics card.
I suspect the lag is caused by your graphics card not being able to handle all the extra particle effects. That's your problem, not mine. If you want to game get a better gaming PC. Consideration has nothing to do with game lag. Do you blame others for being inconsiderate when they drive a nice car down your street?
This ability was sold to us. It was one of the big lockbox prizes and it helped bring them more sales. Nerfing it now that Xindi lockbox sales are dropping off and all the big spenders have it is bait and switch.
And your overreliance on the Kemo-spread is your problem not mine.
It's not about over-reliance. It's about KLW being a paid for ability. Cryptic has ample time to test lockbox items before releasing them - changing it after selling it to thousands of players is bait and switch. This is illegal.
They sold it to us, now they should commit to it.
Never mind the lag it caused for people saving combat logs and all the extra load it put on the servers.
At the end of the day, the number of times it procced per copy of it and proccing again each time because of the way torp spread did its math needed to be addressed. I don't even think I worded that right...
It was inevitable people would be upset that they are dropping this fix. But don't worry, I'm sure something else will be made public for the masses to spam soon.
You expect me to be concerned over you having paid for some ability? You get to destroy every ship in short order. With not just indifference to the bad server performance it causes for others but disdain for them such as that you have displayed for me. And then you think I shoud now have sympathy for you now because you paid for it? I have zero sympathy for you.
It's not a fix, it's a nerf.
I wouldn't be angry if they fixed it. The problem was double-proc: each torp in a torp spread was proccing multiple times on each target. The fix for this would be to make each torp proc a single time on each target.
Instead they are nerfing it - by making each torp proc a single time on the main target - the one you have selected. This means all the torps in the torp spread that hit other targets won't even proc!
This is a nerf, not a fix. This is why I'm angry.
I don't even use torp spread with KLW but this doesn't bode well for my BFAW build. A 10% chance to proc on only my selected target? KLW would become pure, utter garbage. Not even worth a BOff slot. It wouldn't be worth 10 credits, let alone 100 million.
Running a Combatlog does not affect anything Server-side, the Combat data will be shown in your chat on the Combat tab no matter if the Combatlog command is on or off, the only thing it does is save these numbers client side into a txt file.
I wonder where people always come up with these nonsense rumors.
You arrogantly assume that simply because you personally don't/didn't lag that everyone else just has a crappy computer or should just have to deal with it so you can rack up high numbers. I'm running a GTX 750 video card and before that it was a MSI 6870 Hawk. the video cards I've used and currently using are not cheap. Nor is it a ram issue as I'm running 16gigs of ram nor is it a cpu problem as I'm running an 8 core processor. There's no legitimate reason for one single ability to lag this rig unless it's extremely broken/bugged as kemocite was.
I'm going to give you a brief lowdown of why this needed to be fixed. One major reason above was because of the lag it causes to other people. I and other people should not have to worry about our game crashing just because you activated an ability. Another reason is the double procs that it's getting. This was not an intended thing and you shouldn't have been surprised that this would eventually get fixed.
The big glaring thing however was the fact that kemocite NEVER stopped procing after the first initial activation, even long after the power had expired. You can't honestly believe that they were going to let that stay the way it was when you were benefiting from the ability after it had expired. It was not intended to be a permanent always active buff.
Also another reason that it got fixed as quickly as it did was a bug that was in the tribble build just before New Dawn went live. In the Terran Reputation system there is an ability called Secondary Torpedoes. When you activate Secondary torps each time your torps would detonate you would launch a similar torp for free. On Tribble that ability was effected by the same bug that kemocite was. If you activated torp spread and fired it off, then the torp spreads never stopped firing even after the ability had expired. the torps only stopped firing once the target(s) were destroyed or you went out of weapons range. Picture torp spread iii constantly firing like that along with constant kemocite iii procs. you would have to be crazy to think they would ever let something like that happen.
Fixing a bugged ability is not bait and switch, that's correcting an error or maintaining the server. Also if an ability is found to be too powerful it's nerfed. EVERY mmo or multiplayer game out there does this and it shouldn't be a surprise to you that this game does it as well. You may not like the changes and are certainly free to voice your disagreement with those changes, but at the end of the day if it's bugged or too op it'll get fixed/changed, that's how mmos work. you've not been hit by a bait and switch, you're getting a broken ability fixed.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
You clearly demonstrate with this that you've never programmed anything with a computer or even produced a mod for a game. There are sometimes bugs that do not show up until after an item has been released. it's impossible to catch 100% of the bugs 100% of the time and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If something is bugged it will get fixed, that's the way of things. By your logic every time they fix a bug with something or nerf it because it breaks the game, then that's illegal. By that logic game companies could never fix server issues since "that's how they sold it to you and have to commit."
They did commit to the ability because it's still in game.
Overall this is what I get out of your posts heres: "i deserve to hit high dps numbers and they took away the broken form of an ability instead of letting me keep it. They should've let me keep the broken form of it and break the game. wah make them change it back."
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
There seems to be a correlation (which is not causation) of people who experience more lag from KLW usage and those who are saving combat logs and parsing them.
I don't save combat logs and I don't actively parse, I've *never* noticed the much complained about 20 second lag spikes KLW supposed causes and I play on a 2012 laptop. It doesn't have to be server side, if you've got something trying to process data and a big wall of data shows up all at once, like KLW can cause, it may choke your local system.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on them to fix cannon procs with plasma embassy consoles.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."