Its triggers when not active and you get extra triggers base on how many copy's slotted. It also triggers on some weapon launch and hit. The short version is we are getting a lot more kemo hits then we should be and the extra hits are causing lag.
Ah thank you for the info :-)
Ok, I don't mind that Kemo get fixed if it's broken as explained. I understand the whining on that part and people complaining about it. I'm totally with you guys.
But if your whining about that Kemo is sooooo unfair, well, get over it or go buy with your hard earned EC. Some items are made to give advantages over the others. It's part of the game, and yes those can be very expensive since the high demand.
If it's too much for you then maybe RP will suit you better. Trust me, you don't need special expensive items or fancy DPS ships for it. And there's no such thing as a RP race! ;-)
It's very easy to see who has kemo and who doesn't. Not much point arguing as the haves will always disagree with the have nots. Just wait and see how far the devs nerf it. Which depends entirely on how good their next lockbox item is. Can't have an old skill eclipse the new one.
My solution? Ship tier checks. Make it so that most queues require you to be in at least a T5 ship. Each ship already has a tier assigned to it - so this is something that (hopefully) wouldn't be too difficult to do. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean they would know how to fit or fly their ship, but it's a start. I also don't think this is too great of any expectation for most players considering how easy it is to get an MU ship to meet the requirement. It would include the free to play players and also create a situation that allows all the players in the group to exceed the minimum amount of damage needed to earn a reward.
Or if you wanted to get real hardcore about it, give all gear in the game a gear score and having a gear check. Like you need a gear score of 1,000 to do Fleet Alert or a gear score of 10,000 to do CCA. This would take more work to do and IMO would create a difficult hurdle for a lot of casual players, and probably drive people away. So it wouldn't be my preferred solution.
This is a massively flawed solution! Mainly because you're attributing skill and ability to the possession of certain ships and gear. If I want to pug in a T1 Connie, I should be allowed to. If I want to run only mines, I should be allowed to. Am I a dead weight? Not exactly. Are the missions failing? No.
The issue is not what people use or have. The issue is down to how well they are able to use what they have. I pug loads, and in all different types of ships, with all different types of builds. Are the all 'optimal'? Usually not, but they are viable, and more importantly, they're fun. And at the end of the day, this is a game, and should be fun. So if I want to use all Andorian DHC's and try and get max one hits off Wing Cannon Overload, or fly my D'Kyr because no one else does, I will.
Hey there
I just saw your point about the ship choices in PVE, and I am willing to agree with about half of what you say. Basically I want to fly whatever ship I want to also. However a low level 10- toon has no Doffs, and low toon skills for the Captain, and the Boffs, and absolutely is limited to a T1 or at level 10, a T2 ship with the related limits in gear levels.
I could take one of my skilled level 50+ toons with a T2 ship and feel pretty fearless about going into any normal Fleet action. I would probably avoid the Rep Mark missions without at least getting a T4 ship selected. I like K'tingas for example. I usually do fly a one tier lower ship than my Fleet mates in that case, because I like the way the ship handles.
Now I don't want to do all the previous ranting all over again, but I am trying to draw attention to the plight of low level toons, who have no Doffs, no real skills, and who are running max gear for their admittedly low level, yet who are offered Fleet Alert PVEs in unbalanced situations. I have many reasons for doing so.
You said the issue is not what you have, but how well you use it. Normally I would agree, but there are exceptions. If your toon doesn't have much to use, then there is only so much of using something "well" that you as a player can pull off. Knowing all your cooldowns, and the scale of your buffs, debuffs, drains, and so on is important, but with not having more than a few abilities, and having them at paper thin levels means you don't have much to work with. So what you have does matter. In an extreme case, try running a ship with just an impulse engine, and a warp core, and no other equipment, and see how well you can use that
Actually, now I am half tempted to try something like that as an experiment.
I am not one of your professional build min-maxers, but I am well past knowing how to work the builds I have been refining over the last few years. I took a new toon (L10) and a C-store Exeter. A T2 Exeter is a better version of the Connie. I had the 'levels with you' phasers fore and aft, with accompanying torpedos, green and blue gear, all consoles, and all available skill points spent. I know how to use a Cruiser. As you may have read, I got AFK'd in Fleet Alert, due to super high DPSers that were present in the queue with me as we began the battle. It was a T2 Cruiser! Your choices are so simple in such a situation that there is nothing to TRIBBLE up! Not if you have a brain. It comes down to bad luck in queue partners. I would purposely avoid queueing with high DPSers when leveling a new toon if I could see them coming. They don't help me in the mission if they get me AFKd. They are not carrying me anywhere but to a penalty that I don't want, need, or actually deserve, since I was doing everything the build could do.
I am trying to protect my Fleet noobs from running into this by investigating, complaining, and seeking solutions with others. A ship tier check would help to prevent an unfair AFK'd penalty to some degree. That is why I like that idea.
So in summary, I am for promoting some measuring system, (only for obvious low level PVE entry queues) based on level of ship, over level of toon mostly so high characters can still run with low ones if they choose. I would cap the ship level, not set a bar, at least for low level entry points. Most missions would not be changed, just the ones commonly used for low level toons to begin participating.
If you feel like it, I would like to hear more from you, if you think a ship cap for (some) missions sounds ok. Or if you have any other suggestions. I want to bring new players in, and I want them to have a reason to stay.
I know nothing about Kemo except what I have read here. I am neither for, or against it. It must have been added while I was away for a few months, or it wasn't as cool before I was gone, and now it is. Things change. I guess I need to find some
I saw from some of the earlier comments about people at level 5 or 10 doing SB 24...here's my thinking on that: I parse between 36-42k in an ISA,not bad. Now I see Hive Space Elite waiting for me,do I go ahead and jump in that queue? NO and I'll tell you why: Just beacuse the queue is open to me doesn't mean I should do it. I have enough common sense to know that I'm way overmatched for that queue so I don't jump in and spoil a team's run. So think before you join a match like that and you won't have AFK issues.
I get that, all I did was join a "normal" Fleet Alert, Starbase Defense, which is level 5+, and I joined it with a fully loaded level 10 toon. Not my first rodeo
But I did expect to win, and get the reward for the most basic of all queue missions. Which it pretty much is. I have done it while leveling 23 toons before this one, and never had this happen before, so I was extremely shocked.
I only join Elite queues when running with my Fleet members. We know what to expect from each other.
Anyway, your advice is still good. I'm sure people who didn't know better will read that, and avoid Elite Queues till they are well prepared.
One thing though, and this seems important to me, but how can a low level ship spoil a team's run (normal difficulty), when the team never needed them to obliterate each and every wave within seconds of it's arrival? The reason I ask is that I think it goes the other way, and that it is the overpowering high DPSers that don't even need you, and who don't even allow you to take a few DPS crumbs from the table, that spoil it for other players.
Not intentionally. NOT intentionally, but they do make things hard on others, and some of the more vainglorious go and boast about how they carried you, when all they did was carry you to the edge of a cliff and drop you. The high DPS they put out only helps you if it doesn't overshadow you. Otherwise it kills YOU more effectively than anything the NPC enemies could do.
My solution? Ship tier checks. Make it so that most queues require you to be in at least a T5 ship. Each ship already has a tier assigned to it - so this is something that (hopefully) wouldn't be too difficult to do. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean they would know how to fit or fly their ship, but it's a start. I also don't think this is too great of any expectation for most players considering how easy it is to get an MU ship to meet the requirement. It would include the free to play players and also create a situation that allows all the players in the group to exceed the minimum amount of damage needed to earn a reward.
Or if you wanted to get real hardcore about it, give all gear in the game a gear score and having a gear check. Like you need a gear score of 1,000 to do Fleet Alert or a gear score of 10,000 to do CCA. This would take more work to do and IMO would create a difficult hurdle for a lot of casual players, and probably drive people away. So it wouldn't be my preferred solution.
This is a massively flawed solution! Mainly because you're attributing skill and ability to the possession of certain ships and gear. If I want to pug in a T1 Connie, I should be allowed to. If I want to run only mines, I should be allowed to. Am I a dead weight? Not exactly. Are the missions failing? No.
The issue is not what people use or have. The issue is down to how well they are able to use what they have. I pug loads, and in all different types of ships, with all different types of builds. Are the all 'optimal'? Usually not, but they are viable, and more importantly, they're fun. And at the end of the day, this is a game, and should be fun. So if I want to use all Andorian DHC's and try and get max one hits off Wing Cannon Overload, or fly my D'Kyr because no one else does, I will.
Hey! I also checked out your video selections, and it reminded me how much fun I had pulling my Miranda out of mothballs at level 50 and running it around
It's also in a way, why I always have a K'tinga build ready on my KDF toons, even though I have T6 for them to take if they like. Fun factor at maximum Captain!
I mean hard,
ya ya, we all had our fun with it now, but its time to bring it into line with other boff powers etc etc
soon, the very lockboxes that have kimo are going to go for insane prices
the boff power? cost?
stupid
just stupid,
and they need to fix this now
either offer it to the masses off a story mission
or
NERF it to the point that it is pointless
even having kimo 1,2,and 3 .. as a player having it? using it? my god, lets just nerf it to hell
its the simple solution
cause cryptic is NOT going to move a boff power drop from a lock box over to the free bin
so what real, as in REAL OPTION is left to make it acceptable to the masses?
NERF THIS B.S.
look, I know many of you are concerned about a fix for kimo, I get many LOVE it as it stands... but every month this b.s. goes on.. more and more folks are getting jaded over the whole kimo b.s.
as in, IF you ever want to have respect from your peers? they need to nerf it
if they "fix it" it will still be the "haves.. and have nots" power, and I KNOW for some? that's AWSOME, they LOVE it
for the rest of us?
getting kind of sick of haters nickel and diming out performance in the cues as a write off on account of kimo
BEST cryptic just remove the power, honestly, SICK of hearing about it, been hearing about the b.s. for months now, months and months
if its left "powerful" GOOD LORD it will be the one boff power to have bar none, six months from now? when most all the lock boxes are cashed in, copies gone, YOU DONT THINK folks will be spitting in your face too for using it?
I love kimo, I think its a great power.. its just, it should be free and in a story mission
having it in a lock box is CAUSING all this b.s. right now-
a tired rehash of the haves and the have nots
and the cost right now for it? LOL that's simply insane
if I was running cryptic this would be a top issue to solve, BUT again if I was running cryptic I would have had enough sense to know ahead of time that putting a high dps tac boff power in a lockbox is ONLY GOING TO CAUSE trouble in the future
but, we all know, the dip TRIBBLE at cryptic only think about money, money, money
I cant see a way this ends well, honestly, can you? HOW DOES the kimo situation end that doesn't either end as a op power for the elite, or a nerfed era power that made big numbers while it lasted?
AGAIN, I got it cheap when it came out, I got multiple copies for my main, as in IM AM SET- BUT this makes me SICK to see what this stupid power has become now, and the already boiling animosity for those that don't have it-
its wrong
its not good for gaming
its causing more problems then it solves
Just wanted to say, I like your posts. You say it like you see it, and you try to be helpful. It's a good set of qualities.
Based on your opinion, which I appreciate, I may just try to leap past Kemo, and find something clean that works well. I don't have Kemo yet, but do I need it? Probably not. I have lived this long without it already
Better to 'die' with honor, than destroy what makes it all worth while
My solution? Ship tier checks. Make it so that most queues require you to be in at least a T5 ship. Each ship already has a tier assigned to it - so this is something that (hopefully) wouldn't be too difficult to do. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean they would know how to fit or fly their ship, but it's a start. I also don't think this is too great of any expectation for most players considering how easy it is to get an MU ship to meet the requirement. It would include the free to play players and also create a situation that allows all the players in the group to exceed the minimum amount of damage needed to earn a reward.
Or if you wanted to get real hardcore about it, give all gear in the game a gear score and having a gear check. Like you need a gear score of 1,000 to do Fleet Alert or a gear score of 10,000 to do CCA. This would take more work to do and IMO would create a difficult hurdle for a lot of casual players, and probably drive people away. So it wouldn't be my preferred solution.
This is a massively flawed solution! Mainly because you're attributing skill and ability to the possession of certain ships and gear. If I want to pug in a T1 Connie, I should be allowed to. If I want to run only mines, I should be allowed to. Am I a dead weight? Not exactly. Are the missions failing? No.
The issue is not what people use or have. The issue is down to how well they are able to use what they have. I pug loads, and in all different types of ships, with all different types of builds. Are the all 'optimal'? Usually not, but they are viable, and more importantly, they're fun. And at the end of the day, this is a game, and should be fun. So if I want to use all Andorian DHC's and try and get max one hits off Wing Cannon Overload, or fly my D'Kyr because no one else does, I will.
Hey! I also checked out your video selections, and it reminded me how much fun I had pulling my Miranda out of mothballs at level 50 and running it around
It's also in a way, why I always have a K'tinga build ready on my KDF toons, even though I have T6 for them to take if they like. Fun factor at maximum Captain!
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Qapla
Hehe. Flying low level ships and making them competitive is fun and challenging. Interestingly, when I had 2 copies of Kemo on a T2 Gladius with torp spread and neutronic, it amounted to virtually no dps gain at all, because for that build I had no points in flow caps. That's the thing with making kemo op... it's not just a case of slotting it and winning. There needs to be other things present for it to do what it does. It definitely needs to be fixed for the double proc, but it's the combination of high flow caps, neutronic, torp spread and multiple targets that gives the ridiculous high numbers, so I don't know how you'd even begin to look at that without breaking the game further.
In terms of ask penalties... I've taken low level toons into fleet alerts etc without getting afk penalties. All you need to do is at least 1% of the overall damage of the entire team. That's really not a lot. I can see it being a problem if you spend all your time chasing faster ships around the map so that you're always too late to open fire, but if you know where things are gonna spawn, you can anticipate, and be there ahead of time.
@paxdawn, you managed to post a video that describes yourself and your point of view in such a clear manner that it has cured my shortsightedness.
All this talk about proof and yet you haven't provided any yourself. There are no links on your comments. You say your proof is "freely available" but saying its "freely available" isn't proving that it is available and free.
Not only that you have provided no proof against his claim.
Not only that you haven't checked wether his claim has "freely available" proof.
Not only that, there is "freely available proof" that kemocite is not working working as intended and going a little bit beyond its capabilities.
There also "freely available proof" that you don't need more than 10k DPS to complete an advanced queue, but when you're sitting next to an 80k+ DPS boat that rips mobs up before you get a chance to land decent hits, it is very likely that said 10k DPSer won't land enough hits during his full buff cycle to properly register on someone's parser.
Seeing as parsers record damage dealt and not potential damage, this is proved by the sheer necessity to attack something in order to see what damage you dealt, if someone can't land enough AOE hits before NPCs are destroyed then it stands to reason (to one's own logical mind) that their DPS won't be accurately measured.
So all this talk about DPS has the same level of effect and importance as power levels do in DBZ.
Surely to provide "freely available" proof of one's own true DPS, one should solo queues so that there are no outside influences, i.e. other player's debuffs and so on to accurately "freely"and "availably" "true" DPS values?
players like you are lazy. Why should I spoonfeed that information when it is publicly available from 230k dps down 0 dps, private and pugs.
If you are lazy to search information but spew claims and spend hours of posts in the forums. Search and make an effort.
Because if we were to believe 2k dps is the average player that would mean 10k team dps, which translate into 1hr an average ISA completion. Not saying that ISA doesn't finish 1hr for some players but averag means players finish from 1 min to 1 hr to more than hour to e,g. 2 hours.
Do majority players experience 1 hr average finish in ISA to justify that 2k dps for an average player be true?
I can't wait for the new queue to hit Holodeck. Like BOTSE DPS is not the way to go about winning. It requires teamwork and a willingness to read chat and do what others are asking of you/follow orders to achieve the goal. Like any queue that requires teamwork and listening to the team on the chatbox it's going to be empty. You don't see 100k DPSers pugging those queues. Perhaps DPS isn't the answer to everything.
Saying that though, I haven't met a DPSer that can do that and it is rare to meet someone that isn't looking out for himself and calling others "noob" or "unskilled". What I have met and heard about in-game is a few DPSers calling everyone noobs and challenging anyone that stands up for themselves to a match. It's happened to me, it's happened to a friend of mine and it's happened to PvPers I used to see regularly in Ker'rat and C&H.
You can imagine the ensuing hilarity and sheer discombobulation when a PvE elite with a 100k DPS build falls to a 4K PvP build.
You seriously overrate the difficulty of PVE in this game. You seriously underrate how players will adapt to the new content, understand the flow, and apply all the strengths of modern builds to trivialize it.
Edit: Every queue that has ever been implemented has always been figured out. Once the "flow" of the instance has been figured out, it's a simple matter of applying your ship's power to overcome the content.
My friend, I'm not saying its dificult, i believe the opposite. PvE in this game is remarkably easy with some teamwork and yet you only see a handfull of queues popping with pugs. Its not because the others are difficult, it's because they cant be cured with moar DPS. the majority of players wnat to look out for themselves and try to carry the mission by themselves, then they blame everyone else for not working as a team.
The DPS crownd has been so good at advertising itself that people arent willing to play the sci captain throwing the debuffs around, or the eng tank keeping the pressure off escorts and sci ships. Its all me me me me me with all the DPS.
As a side point, how many players have adapted to the new queues without relying on broken equipment and buffs? Because thats not adapting, thats lazy exploiting.
Because You don't know how DPS works. Can't get top dps in ISA if you don't have a nanny debuffer nor a tank at HSE.
All your information is coming from hating dpsers and the lack of understanding how in game mechanics works. Heck you even demand information to be spoonfed to you.
Kemo stacking is an exploit. But removing it won't change the same set of people doing top dps.
@paxdawn, I average around 30k DPS, not difficult to achieve for a PvPer. I'm not going to start looking things up to prove your claim true. I have no reason to not believe what you say and feel. Although your distrustful nature on these forums is a little suspicious in itself. Still I choose to trust your word and experiences without looking for proof, I'm nice like that, until they get to claims on me or my personality. My proof is also "freely available" in the forums.
As someone that's been playing this game since F2P I've done ISA enough times to know what to do so I don't need to be carried. However when I was using the summer event ferengi ship I found myself grav welling the nanite spheres and debuffing them along with the other targets as well as other STFs for other players to make their DPS more effective because that's the intelligent way to play when you're pugging instead of running ahead to the transformers I chose to be a team player rather than DPSing my way through. Thanks to the fanatic PvE DPS crowd people are under the impression that DPS solves everything. To quote Lex Luther: "WRONG!!!!!"
P.S. I never said anything about fixing Kemo making a massive difference in DPS that was someone else.
I would however love it if the devs actually took all abilities and consoles/gear in this game and balanced it all to make the game more playable for other classes than the DPS crowd. Like the Debuff crowd or the tank crowd.
@paxdawn, I average around 30k DPS, not difficult to achieve for a PvPer.
I'm not going to start looking things up to prove your claim true. I have no reason to not believe what you say and feel. Although your distrustful nature on these forums is a little suspicious in itself. Still I choose to trust your word and experiences without looking for proof, I'm nice like that, until they get to claims on me or my personality.
My proof is also "freely available" in the forums.
Apparently you dont get laziness nor any who makes hours of post information without actually researching the correct information. If I post a parse like this:
Would you or any who makes claims about their information actually be able to read all of those? If you dont have the reader, wont that constitute you as being lazy? Why spend hours posting nonsene in the forums when it takes a few seconds/mins to actually download and find those STO parsers or readers or find the correct information?
If you do have the reader, why even bother ask information when all the parses are in their respective tables including the link I gave you? Lazy to look at the table and each parse?
Those information contains everything including if 2K average dps is true or not, if ever your claims in another thread that a team with 0% resistances can complete an STF. If there is debuffing or not, or if there is tanking or not. Or if there is healing or not.
But of course you must make an effort. The information is publicly available but players who keep posting misinformation and spend hours in General discussion forum wont even spend time getting that information.
As someone that's been playing this game since F2P I've done ISA enough times to know what to do so I don't need to be carried. However when I was using the summer event ferengi ship I found myself grav welling the nanite spheres and debuffing them along with the other targets as well as other STFs for other players to make their DPS more effective because that's the intelligent way to play when you're pugging instead of running ahead to the transformers I chose to be a team player rather than DPSing my way through. Thanks to the fanatic PvE DPS crowd people are under the impression that DPS solves everything.
To quote Lex Luther: "WRONG!!!!!"
Please quote people from DPS crowd who said so. Meaning Player-Admin from either DPS league exactly what you said. From the looks of it, you are the only saying that and just merely conveniently blaming the DPS crowd was saying that.
Dont quote someone like yourself who claims that he does "30k DPS" and claim to be part of the DPS crowd. We need official representatives of the DPS crowd not some random player or TRIBBLE.
P.S. I never said anything about fixing Kemo making a massive difference in DPS that was someone else.
I would however love it if the devs actually took all abilities and consoles/gear in this game and balanced it all to make the game more playable for other classes than the DPS crowd. Like the Debuff crowd or the tank crowd.
Except players actually debuff and tank. The more prominent the tanks and debuff the higher your DPS is.
You can even look at the link that I posted above to see the Debuff and Aggro stats. Of course if you actually make an effort to read it and understand the parse and understand that players actually do debuff and tank in this game.
The problem seems to be your biggotry of hatred in the DPS crowd and the lack of understanding of the mechanics.
I meant more along the lines of, instead of casually debuffing, using builds that are built solely and around debuffing an opponent/multiple opponents so that others can make kills more efficiently because of the teamwork rather than just carry the odd grav well or some such instead of trying to get the most amount of damage dealt by yourself.
I'm not going to quote people because this happens on team chat in STFs and I'm not in the habit of recording chat. The fact that there a lot of threads complaining about the DPS crowd from several different people complaining to a similar extent that PvErs use to complain about the PvP crowd proves that I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated with the attitude of a lot of players in this game. Not that it's their fault entirely, the developers have worked hard to make this game a power creep DPS fest. The game is now turning into DPS online, which is a big change from the previous escorts online.
I'm not in the DPS league and make no claims that I am a part of the DPS crowd, I don't know if you meant that or you typed it by accident. I avoid the current meta and therefore can't be part of that crowd. Not that I even want to. However a friend I normally play with has parsed me in a few STFs and missions, he has yet to test me in ISA but that's a little superfluous now.
As a side note, you've accepted that I am a PvPer and saying a PvPer has no understanding of this game's mechanics is a laughable comment to make. Seeing as every PvPer has to PvE and does it well to get the gear.
Another side note is the difference between my main PvE build and my PvP build, my PvP build hits for 4k+ DPS and can bring down tanks but its completely useless for PvE. Hence why I use a different ship and a different build entirely. If I had no understanding of the game mechanics why would I bother using a different build?
My solution? Ship tier checks. Make it so that most queues require you to be in at least a T5 ship. Each ship already has a tier assigned to it - so this is something that (hopefully) wouldn't be too difficult to do. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean they would know how to fit or fly their ship, but it's a start. I also don't think this is too great of any expectation for most players considering how easy it is to get an MU ship to meet the requirement. It would include the free to play players and also create a situation that allows all the players in the group to exceed the minimum amount of damage needed to earn a reward.
Or if you wanted to get real hardcore about it, give all gear in the game a gear score and having a gear check. Like you need a gear score of 1,000 to do Fleet Alert or a gear score of 10,000 to do CCA. This would take more work to do and IMO would create a difficult hurdle for a lot of casual players, and probably drive people away. So it wouldn't be my preferred solution.
This is a massively flawed solution! Mainly because you're attributing skill and ability to the possession of certain ships and gear. If I want to pug in a T1 Connie, I should be allowed to. If I want to run only mines, I should be allowed to. Am I a dead weight? Not exactly. Are the missions failing? No.
The issue is not what people use or have. The issue is down to how well they are able to use what they have. I pug loads, and in all different types of ships, with all different types of builds. Are the all 'optimal'? Usually not, but they are viable, and more importantly, they're fun. And at the end of the day, this is a game, and should be fun. So if I want to use all Andorian DHC's and try and get max one hits off Wing Cannon Overload, or fly my D'Kyr because no one else does, I will.
Hey! I also checked out your video selections, and it reminded me how much fun I had pulling my Miranda out of mothballs at level 50 and running it around
It's also in a way, why I always have a K'tinga build ready on my KDF toons, even though I have T6 for them to take if they like. Fun factor at maximum Captain!
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Qapla
Hehe. Flying low level ships and making them competitive is fun and challenging. Interestingly, when I had 2 copies of Kemo on a T2 Gladius with torp spread and neutronic, it amounted to virtually no dps gain at all, because for that build I had no points in flow caps. That's the thing with making kemo op... it's not just a case of slotting it and winning. There needs to be other things present for it to do what it does. It definitely needs to be fixed for the double proc, but it's the combination of high flow caps, neutronic, torp spread and multiple targets that gives the ridiculous high numbers, so I don't know how you'd even begin to look at that without breaking the game further.
In terms of ask penalties... I've taken low level toons into fleet alerts etc without getting afk penalties. All you need to do is at least 1% of the overall damage of the entire team. That's really not a lot. I can see it being a problem if you spend all your time chasing faster ships around the map so that you're always too late to open fire, but if you know where things are gonna spawn, you can anticipate, and be there ahead of time.
Yeah a faster ship would sure help
I just had the best I could get on that particular level 10 toon, but I use evasive maneuvers offensively to change position with any toon as the situation warrants. You don't always have to save it to dodge with, and it makes a handy tool for moving a little faster when full impulse isn't available
I've taken 23 tons over and over again (and at low level) into PVE queus without getting a single AFK penalty. Like I said, this came as a shock, and I know I performed at least as well as usual, so something else in the enviroment has to have changed. Way I figure it I was in a group with 4 other people doing at a minimum 60 times each, what my toon was able to do, fully loaded, so that would roughly be 240 to one, or less than half a percent.
I'm also not an anti-dps bigot, as some folks may suspect. I just want to bring attention to the fact that a good build for a level 10 toon isn't really able to meet the demands of a maxed out high dps build enviroment, and that the game is mixing them together without any way to see who is being queued with who. Mostly at the expense of the low leveler imho. For my part, I wouldn't intentionally mix a level 10 with anything like a level 55-50 high dps crowd. At least not in an open PVE enviroment.
SO I blame the game, not the players who go for high dps. I go for higher dps with my higher level toons also. I don't have any Kemocite, but I could care less about it.
My solution? Ship tier checks. Make it so that most queues require you to be in at least a T5 ship. Each ship already has a tier assigned to it - so this is something that (hopefully) wouldn't be too difficult to do. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean they would know how to fit or fly their ship, but it's a start. I also don't think this is too great of any expectation for most players considering how easy it is to get an MU ship to meet the requirement. It would include the free to play players and also create a situation that allows all the players in the group to exceed the minimum amount of damage needed to earn a reward.
Or if you wanted to get real hardcore about it, give all gear in the game a gear score and having a gear check. Like you need a gear score of 1,000 to do Fleet Alert or a gear score of 10,000 to do CCA. This would take more work to do and IMO would create a difficult hurdle for a lot of casual players, and probably drive people away. So it wouldn't be my preferred solution.
This is a massively flawed solution! Mainly because you're attributing skill and ability to the possession of certain ships and gear. If I want to pug in a T1 Connie, I should be allowed to. If I want to run only mines, I should be allowed to. Am I a dead weight? Not exactly. Are the missions failing? No.
The issue is not what people use or have. The issue is down to how well they are able to use what they have. I pug loads, and in all different types of ships, with all different types of builds. Are the all 'optimal'? Usually not, but they are viable, and more importantly, they're fun. And at the end of the day, this is a game, and should be fun. So if I want to use all Andorian DHC's and try and get max one hits off Wing Cannon Overload, or fly my D'Kyr because no one else does, I will.
Hey! I also checked out your video selections, and it reminded me how much fun I had pulling my Miranda out of mothballs at level 50 and running it around
It's also in a way, why I always have a K'tinga build ready on my KDF toons, even though I have T6 for them to take if they like. Fun factor at maximum Captain!
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Qapla
Hehe. Flying low level ships and making them competitive is fun and challenging. Interestingly, when I had 2 copies of Kemo on a T2 Gladius with torp spread and neutronic, it amounted to virtually no dps gain at all, because for that build I had no points in flow caps. That's the thing with making kemo op... it's not just a case of slotting it and winning. There needs to be other things present for it to do what it does. It definitely needs to be fixed for the double proc, but it's the combination of high flow caps, neutronic, torp spread and multiple targets that gives the ridiculous high numbers, so I don't know how you'd even begin to look at that without breaking the game further.
In terms of ask penalties... I've taken low level toons into fleet alerts etc without getting afk penalties. All you need to do is at least 1% of the overall damage of the entire team. That's really not a lot. I can see it being a problem if you spend all your time chasing faster ships around the map so that you're always too late to open fire, but if you know where things are gonna spawn, you can anticipate, and be there ahead of time.
Yeah a faster ship would sure help
I just had the best I could get on that particular level 10 toon, but I use evasive maneuvers offensively to change position with any toon as the situation warrants. You don't always have to save it to dodge with, and it makes a handy tool for moving a little faster when full impulse isn't available
I've taken 23 tons over and over again (and at low level) into PVE queus without getting a single AFK penalty. Like I said, this came as a shock, and I know I performed at least as well as usual, so something else in the enviroment has to have changed. Way I figure it I was in a group with 4 other people doing at a minimum 60 times each, what my toon was able to do, fully loaded, so that would roughly be 240 to one, or less than half a percent.
I'm also not an anti-dps bigot, as some folks may suspect. I just want to bring attention to the fact that a good build for a level 10 toon isn't really able to meet the demands of a maxed out high dps build enviroment, and that the game is mixing them together without any way to see who is being queued with who. Mostly at the expense of the low leveler imho. For my part, I wouldn't intentionally mix a level 10 with anything like a level 55-50 high dps crowd. At least not in an open PVE enviroment.
SO I blame the game, not the players who go for high dps. I go for higher dps with my higher level toons also. I don't have any Kemocite, but I could care less about it.
Anyway, again, thanks for sharing the vids
Qapla
I agree that in some ways, the game shouldn't put high and low level characters together. It's similar to why most people pvp only once... they come up against a premade, or even just a single decent player, get annihilated despite having all the best stuff, and then rage quit. For both pvp and pve, there should be some sort of grading system, probably based on experience level rather than gear, but I don't know how you'd begin to do that. There are players who have been in the game since beta, and still haven't finished all the reps on their 1 and only toon.
I don't like the idea of separating high and low levels completely. It's nice to help friends and fleet mates level quicker, or grind marks etc. The AFK mechanic does need to be looked at though.
I'm not going to quote people because this happens on team chat in STFs and I'm not in the habit of recording chat. The fact that there a lot of threads complaining about the DPS crowd from several different people complaining to a similar extent that PvErs use to complain about the PvP crowd proves that I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated with the attitude of a lot of players in this game. Not that it's their fault entirely, the developers have worked hard to make this game a power creep DPS fest.
I went into a pug ISA the other night, and it had already failed when I warped in. By the time I'd full impulsed over to the left, there was a guy raging about how TRIBBLE the team was. As we continued, he started telling people to 'focus fire on the gateway'... this is while both transformers were still alive and the first spawn of nanite spheres were healing the left one. Obviously I ignored him. Eventually we got to the right side... he then starts bitching that there's a tac escort player doing no dps and that he sucked... I checked the log, and he was doing the highest dps in the team! What's funny, is the guy giving all the orders, saying that everyone sucks, and complaining about other people's dps was actually only doing 4K and was the lowest dps in the team.
Now if I wasn't parsing, I wouldn't know this. So to most people, it would look like a dps guy was saying everyone sucks... when actually the guy doing the highest dps wasn't saying a word. I've had situations like this loads of times. It's usually the low end guy that rages in team chat, not the dps crowd.
I'm not going to quote people because this happens on team chat in STFs and I'm not in the habit of recording chat. The fact that there a lot of threads complaining about the DPS crowd from several different people complaining to a similar extent that PvErs use to complain about the PvP crowd proves that I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated with the attitude of a lot of players in this game. Not that it's their fault entirely, the developers have worked hard to make this game a power creep DPS fest.
I went into a pug ISA the other night, and it had already failed when I warped in. By the time I'd full impulsed over to the left, there was a guy raging about how TRIBBLE the team was. As we continued, he started telling people to 'focus fire on the gateway'... this is while both transformers were still alive and the first spawn of nanite spheres were healing the left one. Obviously I ignored him. Eventually we got to the right side... he then starts bitching that there's a tac escort player doing no dps and that he sucked... I checked the log, and he was doing the highest dps in the team! What's funny, is the guy giving all the orders, saying that everyone sucks, and complaining about other people's dps was actually only doing 4K and was the lowest dps in the team.
Now if I wasn't parsing, I wouldn't know this. So to most people, it would look like a dps guy was saying everyone sucks... when actually the guy doing the highest dps wasn't saying a word. I've had situations like this loads of times. It's usually the low end guy that rages in team chat, not the dps crowd.
Since I always parse (when I remember to) my ISA runs, I can tell you that 99% of the time someone calls everyone else an idiot in chat in that map, it's actually one of the lowest DPS guys in the group. The way they talk people would assume that he's some DPS elitist monster, when in reality he's just a sad person probably infuriated by the number of failed runs he/she has been having.
Agree that there should be some kind of "grading" scale to enter STF's. Don't agree with the dps haters. What's wrong with being a competent player? Now I don't do the whole min/max thing nor do I use kemo and I don't use a "cookie-cutter" build. Been playing almost 3 years and spent MANY hours doing the grind to get the things I have.Don't spend alot of money but I have bought several ships just because I want to have them. I don't hate noobs,pvp'ers or the ultimate dps bunch(though some of them do have attitude problems) but so do the other groups and those players are just as bad as they say the others are. Time to stop blaming each other and accept responsibility for your own behavior.
Cryptic made this game into what it is,not the dps'ers,not the pvp'ers and certainly not new players. You can rage about certain groups or you can get your head outta your whereever and learn how to play. There are many good sources teaching just that,starting with youtube. I don't want anyone to be excluded from any part of the game but there are certain expectations to be met,just like any other mmo out there.
As far as getting afk penalties for not getting enough damage in the low level stf's,that definitely isn't right either and should be addressed but probably won't be,unfortunately. I wish I had some idea how to fix the problem but not knowing anything about coding,I'm pretty much clueless as to what could be implemented.
For one thing,"normal" stf's are ridiculously easy,and perhaps contribute to players thinking that they can complete higher tier stf's. This just isn't true,no matter how much we would wish it to be so. It takes time to get the things you need to compete at a high level. Be patient,play the game and do your reputation grind because many of the things you need are in there. You don't hafta spend money to be a decent player,the tools are in there,you just gotta get them and use them effectively. Instead of throwing boff powers in haphazardly,look at how the skills interact with each other and use them to boost your potential. Sit in sector space(DS9,ESD etc.) and activate your skills. Watch the cooldowns on them and other skills they have an effect on. Subsystem power levels are very important also. You can change them to your liking,adding points where needed but you'll lose points in other subsystems. There are many clickable icons that don't get any explanations so experiment with them. For example,there are 3 different ways to setup your subsystems,all done on 1 clickable icon on that graph. Those icons are there for a reason,use them even if they don't get any explanation. Just a few basics that maybe will help you to get up to speed. Most of all,try to enjoy the game and be patient.
If you wanna rage,then rage at the people making the game the way it is. Last time I checked it isn't any of the players doing it,it's the company putting it out there. Just remember there are many ways that people enjoy the game and doing high end content is mine. Any and all are welcome but please do a bit of looking around and you just might find the answers you need to be a competent and contributing teammate.
I rage quit a ISA and landed myself with a leavers penalty the other night after finding myself teamed with guys that had no rights with the builds they had on being in an advanced queue. I was on one of my weaker toons a sci in a tier 6 Prometheus. After killing 90% of the opening wave of Borg and dying twice doing it and then having to do the same on the left transformer and the with the approaching nanites, after my 4th death due to grabbing all the aggro and being in a squishy ship i got fed up trying to carry these guys. This sci usually does between 25-31k dps in a pre made ISA using a fleet Ambassador.
The marks and dil reward just weren't worth the effort for the time required to carry that match, so i just went to Voth BZ and got my dil there instead doing the dailies.
Love or hate powerful players, love or hate overpowered or bugged gear, when encountering the unknown randomness of the public queues and the huge difference in skill and understanding of game mechanics to be successful you need powerful players in this game to carry the less skilled through matches. Without them if every team and myself included were as strong as the 4 i ran with in that ISA, public queues would be deader than they already are as none could complete them with optionals.
Well i learned my lesson about pugging advanced and that is not to do it and join or make pre made games with players i know have the build and skill to complete them.
I rage quit a ISA and landed myself with a leavers penalty the other night after finding myself teamed with guys that had no rights with the builds they had on being in an advanced queue. I was on one of my weaker toons a sci in a tier 6 Prometheus. After killing 90% of the opening wave of Borg and dying twice doing it and then having to do the same on the left transformer and the with the approaching nanites, after my 4th death due to grabbing all the aggro and being in a squishy ship i got fed up trying to carry these guys. This sci usually does between 25-31k dps in a pre made ISA using a fleet Ambassador.
The marks and dil reward just weren't worth the effort for the time required to carry that match, so i just went to Voth BZ and got my dil there instead doing the dailies.
Love or hate powerful players, love or hate overpowered or bugged gear, when encountering the unknown randomness of the public queues and the huge difference in skill and understanding of game mechanics to be successful you need powerful players in this game to carry the less skilled through matches. Without them if every team and myself included were as strong as the 4 i ran with in that ISA, public queues would be deader than they already are as none could complete them with optionals.
Well i learned my lesson about pugging advanced and that is not to do it and join or make pre made games with players i know have the build and skill to complete them.
I pugged a CSA once , just to test stuff and the parse was on ... the run ended up with me doing 44k and all of the other players around 4k ... Now, I don't know very well how parsing works in that stf : I just know that the map is very large therefore the parsing isn't accurate although I remember going back and forth from the Cubes and the Kang ... Anyway, I might be wrong but their dps seemed too low to queue up for that advanced stf : I mean ... you gotta kill something.
I have friends from other games and I've just started playing a new one sometimes and this seems to be the only game where there's this hatred towards DPS.
Given that the PvE is actually very DPS-oriented ( but not only Tacs can dish out DPS : looking at you, sci captains), wouldn't it be better to help players improve their teamwork and learn game mechanics in the current meta?
I'm seeing quite better teamwork in the new game that I am playing right now.
Unless you love staying in your corner, hating all of the DPSers and failing all of the queues, because you can't even make a decent drain/debuffing build : did I tell you how smooth was an ISA which I pugged together with a famous PvP drainer?
Sorry for the off-topic ( it's a thread about kemocite).
I rage quit a ISA and landed myself with a leavers penalty the other night after finding myself teamed with guys that had no rights with the builds they had on being in an advanced queue. I was on one of my weaker toons a sci in a tier 6 Prometheus. After killing 90% of the opening wave of Borg and dying twice doing it and then having to do the same on the left transformer and the with the approaching nanites, after my 4th death due to grabbing all the aggro and being in a squishy ship i got fed up trying to carry these guys. This sci usually does between 25-31k dps in a pre made ISA using a fleet Ambassador.
The marks and dil reward just weren't worth the effort for the time required to carry that match, so i just went to Voth BZ and got my dil there instead doing the dailies.
Love or hate powerful players, love or hate overpowered or bugged gear, when encountering the unknown randomness of the public queues and the huge difference in skill and understanding of game mechanics to be successful you need powerful players in this game to carry the less skilled through matches. Without them if every team and myself included were as strong as the 4 i ran with in that ISA, public queues would be deader than they already are as none could complete them with optionals.
Well i learned my lesson about pugging advanced and that is not to do it and join or make pre made games with players i know have the build and skill to complete them.
I pugged a CSA once , just to test stuff and the parse was on ... the run ended up with me doing 44k and all of the other players around 4k ... Now, I don't know very well how parsing works in that stf : I just know that the map is very large therefore the parsing isn't accurate although I remember going back and forth from the Cubes and the Kang ... Anyway, I might be wrong but their dps seemed too low to queue up for that advanced stf : I mean ... you gotta kill something.
I have friends from other games and I've just started playing a new one sometimes and this seems to be the only game where there's this hatred towards DPS.
Given that the PvE is actually very DPS-oriented ( but not only Tacs can dish out DPS : looking at you, sci captains), wouldn't it be better to help players improve their teamwork and learn game mechanics in the current meta?
I'm seeing quite better teamwork in the new game that I am playing right now.
Unless you love staying in your corner, hating all of the DPSers and failing all of the queues, because you can't even make a decent drain/debuffing build : did I tell you how smooth was an ISA which I pugged together with a famous PvP drainer?
Sorry for the off-topic ( it's a thread about kemocite).
@ 44k dps, the others need not do anything, besides pick off left overs!
So, don't expect much of them, when you are killing everything by yourself!
The last few posts have been very interesting to me. I like that mostly everyone is aiming for calm and reasonable
I think I have been supporting the idea that the game is to blame for power mismatches, and not the DPSers or player of low levelers. really, who wants to HAVE to carry someone, and really, who with any dignity wants to be carried? For sure nobody wants to be carried to an AFK result!
I already know I don't play ISA, and even with my good builds, I don't plan on it any time soon. I figure when I can hold my own with equal kills with one of our Fleet DPSers in a sparring match, that will be the time.
I do look in the chat window to see how I am doing, and it's not bad, just not as good as my high DPSers. As far as 'parsing' goes, isn't it true you can still get a decent idea how your doing based off the details in your chat window? It seems to be pretty informative to me, and in challenges afterwards you always see the points there also, but just in a lump. I know some do, and some don't parse, but how does anyone reading this explain their preference either way.
I can read what a console, or a boff does, and see how they help me, and I have a calculator, and I can read the chat window, so what is very wrong with that? But seriously? My High DPSers in my Fleet don't seem to do it. They are away right now, so I can't ask them. Maybe they do, and I just never see them chat about it. So how much of a big deal is it really? Parsing? I have been fine for 23 toons, and I am shooting for all 51, and I'm not going for Gold in the DPS league. I just don't want to fall to far behind any power creep, and I am not used to having to worry about it.
Thanks in advance. Also though ....
I see a lot off angry happening online, and I think we are mad at the wrong things or people. Why isn't there some group in this community that just tries to bridge the gaps between everyone? We really aren't all that different, in spite of different goals. I want to bring my discouraged Fleet players back, and add to them with new people who want a safe group to learn in. Otherwise, I am in this game for the fun. PVE, PVP. Jokes in the chat bar. Whatever.
Aren't the majority here to have fun, and if so why do people get weirdly hostile at each other? I mean aren't we all a little bit 'Trekkie', and shouldn't that almost preclude any of us having petty squabbles? I'm on day three of not feeling like playing, and have just been going through discussions, posting where I feel the topic is important, or entertaining. I was almost always to busy playing to bother. Not sure what I think except there is a lot of subtle, and not so subtle hostility. Now I think that is the biggest 'game bug' of all.
I also see lots of people trying to help each other, and that makes me think it's going to be alright. I'm a bit sleepy, probably typing funny. Y'know what, I'm gonna come back later.
Curious about parsing, versus just paying good attention. Also curious about why we Trekkers have little squabbles when we should know better. Thanks and done for now
Curious about parsing, versus just paying good attention.
Obviously if something dies fast and big yellow numbers appear, that gives you an indication of where you're at in a really basic sense, but parsing gives you so much more.
In essence, all a parser does is read the combatlog file that STO creates and displays the information in an easily digestible way.
It show what weapon did what damage and when. What killed who. How much shield healing you did vs hull healing etc etc etc.
A really useful thing for me is to look at the dps graph to see when I was doing damage, and when it was falling away, and then working out why (usually down to positioning).
Are they necessary? Of course not, but if knowledge is power, and you want to delve into the nitty gritty of what is doing what, then they're very useful.
^ Chat logs are fine for checking individual damage.
But they aren't easy to navigate, and there's no sorting tabs to make your search easier.
I do however use the chat logs for checking things on the fly (when Im too lazy to parse), like big hits from my TR116b, and other attacks.. Feedback pulse in ker'rat...amongst other uses.
But parsing is superior to get a better overall picture of what's going on, and how effective you are through a period of time. Plus the added bonus of sorting the damge and heals, accuracy, crit chance, crit hits, spike damage, etc etc.
There's nothing wrong if you don't want to parse. Its not required. But it is helpful for people looking for a more in-depth analysis of what occurred during a particular queue.
As far a groups squaring off against each...it in our nature as humans to rally against things that are different from ourselves. Like in zone chat, you'll see things like "Oh I hate JJTrek, or I hate this captain, or I hate that series"
"Some" People like to categorize themselves into certain boxes. It makes it easier to identify with other like minded individuals.
But if we are honest, our declarations wouldn't be so extreme, as an example, I don't necessarily love Enterprise series, but there are great moments within said series for me.
Or in Star Trek 5, many people HATE this movie... but Kirk delivers one of his finest lines of all time in it... "I need my Pain dammit"
In large groups it seems people like to box themselves off for whatever psychological reason they may have, like feeling more connected with other likeminded individuals.
I try to stay away from that sort of thinking, but it is in our nature to do such things. Just be cognizant of this, and try to avoid it wherever possible. Like you say, we are all here (mostly) for the Trek, and we all enjoy Trek in some similar fasion, whether it be TOS/TNG/ENT/DS9/ or Voyager..
We're all in the same Trek box if you think about, and as you stated it.
But they'll also always be some strife between different groups like PvP and PvE because their goals are not aligned.
Some things the PvP community wanted nerfed, the PvE community did not. and vice versa.. its just part of the world we live in.
Truth is most will debate in a civil manner, even if things are getting heated.
There's very few who do go out of their way to cause arguments, and to troll, or stoke the fires between different groups.
But this is the case all around us, Republican vs Democrat, Cowboys vs Patriots, Bruins vs Canadiens. Politics and Sports is an extreme example, of people acting irrationally toward one group or another.
I guess all we can do is to try and debate in a civil, respectful manner, and to ignore fire starters and trolls (which some people have a real hard time doing), and it would go a long way to realize not everyone will agree with us. And that our opinons are not always right.
The world is too Grey a place, for black and white arguments.
We should realize this and we'll all be the better for it. And the debates will become that much more productive.
Keelah Se'lai
Jolan Tru
Quapla
Live Long and Prosper
I'm still laughing at the notion of 'DPS = skill' considering most are 'copy/pasted' layouts. But I agree with the OP in that DPS needs balancing as it's frustrating that those pushing 100k+ vape STF's. I want a challenging experience, not a 'sneeze-to-win' experience. It beggars belief that supposedly 'superior' technology is blasted away in 1 shot. It took an armada of ships just to takedown 1 cube in 'First Contact', although 'Scorpion' and 'Endgame' used 'advantages', our enemies supposedly are supposed to strike fear into our hearts, especially the Borg and the Iconians, whom are probably the most devastating forces to have ever existed in the ST Universe. The supposed 'fight for your lives' that was the Iconian Wars basically couldn't have happened, simply because of the broken DPS balance. I mean, how many people who played the missions actually died, just even once!? The game's 'miracle heal' mechanics, also made it hard to die. It's time for Cryptic to break out the calculators I'd say and give power back to the AI! lol.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Curious about parsing, versus just paying good attention.
Obviously if something dies fast and big yellow numbers appear, that gives you an indication of where you're at in a really basic sense, but parsing gives you so much more.
In essence, all a parser does is read the combatlog file that STO creates and displays the information in an easily digestible way.
It show what weapon did what damage and when. What killed who. How much shield healing you did vs hull healing etc etc etc.
A really useful thing for me is to look at the dps graph to see when I was doing damage, and when it was falling away, and then working out why (usually down to positioning).
Are they necessary? Of course not, but if knowledge is power, and you want to delve into the nitty gritty of what is doing what, then they're very useful.
^ Chat logs are fine for checking individual damage.
But they aren't easy to navigate, and there's no sorting tabs to make your search easier.
I do however use the chat logs for checking things on the fly (when Im too lazy to parse), like big hits from my TR116b, and other attacks.. Feedback pulse in ker'rat...amongst other uses.
But parsing is superior to get a better overall picture of what's going on, and how effective you are through a period of time. Plus the added bonus of sorting the damge and heals, accuracy, crit chance, crit hits, spike damage, etc etc.
There's nothing wrong if you don't want to parse. Its not required. But it is helpful for people looking for a more in-depth analysis of what occurred during a particular queue.
As far a groups squaring off against each...it in our nature as humans to rally against things that are different from ourselves. Like in zone chat, you'll see things like "Oh I hate JJTrek, or I hate this captain, or I hate that series"
"Some" People like to categorize themselves into certain boxes. It makes it easier to identify with other like minded individuals.
But if we are honest, our declarations wouldn't be so extreme, as an example, I don't necessarily love Enterprise series, but there are great moments within said series for me.
Or in Star Trek 5, many people HATE this movie... but Kirk delivers one of his finest lines of all time in it... "I need my Pain dammit"
In large groups it seems people like to box themselves off for whatever psychological reason they may have, like feeling more connected with other likeminded individuals.
I try to stay away from that sort of thinking, but it is in our nature to do such things. Just be cognizant of this, and try to avoid it wherever possible. Like you say, we are all here (mostly) for the Trek, and we all enjoy Trek in some similar fasion, whether it be TOS/TNG/ENT/DS9/ or Voyager..
We're all in the same Trek box if you think about, and as you stated it.
But they'll also always be some strife between different groups like PvP and PvE because their goals are not aligned.
Some things the PvP community wanted nerfed, the PvE community did not. and vice versa.. its just part of the world we live in.
Truth is most will debate in a civil manner, even if things are getting heated.
There's very few who do go out of their way to cause arguments, and to troll, or stoke the fires between different groups.
But this is the case all around us, Republican vs Democrat, Cowboys vs Patriots, Bruins vs Canadiens. Politics and Sports is an extreme example, of people acting irrationally toward one group or another.
I guess all we can do is to try and debate in a civil, respectful manner, and to ignore fire starters and trolls (which some people have a real hard time doing), and it would go a long way to realize not everyone will agree with us. And that our opinons are not always right.
The world is too Grey a place, for black and white arguments.
We should realize this and we'll all be the better for it. And the debates will become that much more productive.
Keelah Se'lai
Jolan Tru
Quapla
Live Long and Prosper
Well said. I take that with me today
Keelah Se'lai
Jolan Tru
Qapla
Live Long and Prosper
I'm still laughing at the notion of 'DPS = skill' considering most are 'copy/pasted' layouts. But I agree with the OP in that DPS needs balancing as it's frustrating that those pushing 100k+ vape STF's. I want a challenging experience, not a 'sneeze-to-win' experience. It beggars belief that supposedly 'superior' technology is blasted away in 1 shot. It took an armada of ships just to takedown 1 cube in 'First Contact', although 'Scorpion' and 'Endgame' used 'advantages', our enemies supposedly are supposed to strike fear into our hearts, especially the Borg and the Iconians, whom are probably the most devastating forces to have ever existed in the ST Universe. The supposed 'fight for your lives' that was the Iconian Wars basically couldn't have happened, simply because of the broken DPS balance. I mean, how many people who played the missions actually died, just even once!? The game's 'miracle heal' mechanics, also made it hard to die. It's time for Cryptic to break out the calculators I'd say and give power back to the AI! lol.
Yeah, one cube should almost be THE mission entirely, but I bet we don't see that again
I rage quit a ISA and landed myself with a leavers penalty the other night after finding myself teamed with guys that had no rights with the builds they had on being in an advanced queue. I was on one of my weaker toons a sci in a tier 6 Prometheus. After killing 90% of the opening wave of Borg and dying twice doing it and then having to do the same on the left transformer and the with the approaching nanites, after my 4th death due to grabbing all the aggro and being in a squishy ship i got fed up trying to carry these guys. This sci usually does between 25-31k dps in a pre made ISA using a fleet Ambassador.
The marks and dil reward just weren't worth the effort for the time required to carry that match, so i just went to Voth BZ and got my dil there instead doing the dailies.
Love or hate powerful players, love or hate overpowered or bugged gear, when encountering the unknown randomness of the public queues and the huge difference in skill and understanding of game mechanics to be successful you need powerful players in this game to carry the less skilled through matches. Without them if every team and myself included were as strong as the 4 i ran with in that ISA, public queues would be deader than they already are as none could complete them with optionals.
Well i learned my lesson about pugging advanced and that is not to do it and join or make pre made games with players i know have the build and skill to complete them.
We need to do a few runs together one day w/ @jetlaya90 and show you what livin' dat PuG Lyfe the "right way" is all about . You have to have a good laugh about it, and go in expecting the worse-case scenario.
Comments
Ah thank you for the info :-)
Ok, I don't mind that Kemo get fixed if it's broken as explained. I understand the whining on that part and people complaining about it. I'm totally with you guys.
But if your whining about that Kemo is sooooo unfair, well, get over it or go buy with your hard earned EC. Some items are made to give advantages over the others. It's part of the game, and yes those can be very expensive since the high demand.
If it's too much for you then maybe RP will suit you better. Trust me, you don't need special expensive items or fancy DPS ships for it. And there's no such thing as a RP race! ;-)
Just wait and see how far the devs nerf it. Which depends entirely on how good their next lockbox item is. Can't have an old skill eclipse the new one.
Hey there
I just saw your point about the ship choices in PVE, and I am willing to agree with about half of what you say. Basically I want to fly whatever ship I want to also. However a low level 10- toon has no Doffs, and low toon skills for the Captain, and the Boffs, and absolutely is limited to a T1 or at level 10, a T2 ship with the related limits in gear levels.
I could take one of my skilled level 50+ toons with a T2 ship and feel pretty fearless about going into any normal Fleet action. I would probably avoid the Rep Mark missions without at least getting a T4 ship selected. I like K'tingas for example. I usually do fly a one tier lower ship than my Fleet mates in that case, because I like the way the ship handles.
Now I don't want to do all the previous ranting all over again, but I am trying to draw attention to the plight of low level toons, who have no Doffs, no real skills, and who are running max gear for their admittedly low level, yet who are offered Fleet Alert PVEs in unbalanced situations. I have many reasons for doing so.
You said the issue is not what you have, but how well you use it. Normally I would agree, but there are exceptions. If your toon doesn't have much to use, then there is only so much of using something "well" that you as a player can pull off. Knowing all your cooldowns, and the scale of your buffs, debuffs, drains, and so on is important, but with not having more than a few abilities, and having them at paper thin levels means you don't have much to work with. So what you have does matter. In an extreme case, try running a ship with just an impulse engine, and a warp core, and no other equipment, and see how well you can use that
Actually, now I am half tempted to try something like that as an experiment.
I am not one of your professional build min-maxers, but I am well past knowing how to work the builds I have been refining over the last few years. I took a new toon (L10) and a C-store Exeter. A T2 Exeter is a better version of the Connie. I had the 'levels with you' phasers fore and aft, with accompanying torpedos, green and blue gear, all consoles, and all available skill points spent. I know how to use a Cruiser. As you may have read, I got AFK'd in Fleet Alert, due to super high DPSers that were present in the queue with me as we began the battle. It was a T2 Cruiser! Your choices are so simple in such a situation that there is nothing to TRIBBLE up! Not if you have a brain. It comes down to bad luck in queue partners. I would purposely avoid queueing with high DPSers when leveling a new toon if I could see them coming. They don't help me in the mission if they get me AFKd. They are not carrying me anywhere but to a penalty that I don't want, need, or actually deserve, since I was doing everything the build could do.
I am trying to protect my Fleet noobs from running into this by investigating, complaining, and seeking solutions with others. A ship tier check would help to prevent an unfair AFK'd penalty to some degree. That is why I like that idea.
So in summary, I am for promoting some measuring system, (only for obvious low level PVE entry queues) based on level of ship, over level of toon mostly so high characters can still run with low ones if they choose. I would cap the ship level, not set a bar, at least for low level entry points. Most missions would not be changed, just the ones commonly used for low level toons to begin participating.
If you feel like it, I would like to hear more from you, if you think a ship cap for (some) missions sounds ok. Or if you have any other suggestions. I want to bring new players in, and I want them to have a reason to stay.
Thanks. Qapla!
Qapla.
I get that, all I did was join a "normal" Fleet Alert, Starbase Defense, which is level 5+, and I joined it with a fully loaded level 10 toon. Not my first rodeo
But I did expect to win, and get the reward for the most basic of all queue missions. Which it pretty much is. I have done it while leveling 23 toons before this one, and never had this happen before, so I was extremely shocked.
I only join Elite queues when running with my Fleet members. We know what to expect from each other.
Anyway, your advice is still good. I'm sure people who didn't know better will read that, and avoid Elite Queues till they are well prepared.
One thing though, and this seems important to me, but how can a low level ship spoil a team's run (normal difficulty), when the team never needed them to obliterate each and every wave within seconds of it's arrival? The reason I ask is that I think it goes the other way, and that it is the overpowering high DPSers that don't even need you, and who don't even allow you to take a few DPS crumbs from the table, that spoil it for other players.
Not intentionally. NOT intentionally, but they do make things hard on others, and some of the more vainglorious go and boast about how they carried you, when all they did was carry you to the edge of a cliff and drop you. The high DPS they put out only helps you if it doesn't overshadow you. Otherwise it kills YOU more effectively than anything the NPC enemies could do.
Anyway, thanks for the interest.
Qapla.
Hey!
It's also in a way, why I always have a K'tinga build ready on my KDF toons, even though I have T6 for them to take if they like. Fun factor at maximum Captain!
Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Qapla
Just wanted to say, I like your posts. You say it like you see it, and you try to be helpful. It's a good set of qualities.
Based on your opinion, which I appreciate, I may just try to leap past Kemo, and find something clean that works well. I don't have Kemo yet, but do I need it? Probably not. I have lived this long without it already
Better to 'die' with honor, than destroy what makes it all worth while
Qapla
Hehe. Flying low level ships and making them competitive is fun and challenging. Interestingly, when I had 2 copies of Kemo on a T2 Gladius with torp spread and neutronic, it amounted to virtually no dps gain at all, because for that build I had no points in flow caps. That's the thing with making kemo op... it's not just a case of slotting it and winning. There needs to be other things present for it to do what it does. It definitely needs to be fixed for the double proc, but it's the combination of high flow caps, neutronic, torp spread and multiple targets that gives the ridiculous high numbers, so I don't know how you'd even begin to look at that without breaking the game further.
In terms of ask penalties... I've taken low level toons into fleet alerts etc without getting afk penalties. All you need to do is at least 1% of the overall damage of the entire team. That's really not a lot. I can see it being a problem if you spend all your time chasing faster ships around the map so that you're always too late to open fire, but if you know where things are gonna spawn, you can anticipate, and be there ahead of time.
players like you are lazy. Why should I spoonfeed that information when it is publicly available from 230k dps down 0 dps, private and pugs.
If you are lazy to search information but spew claims and spend hours of posts in the forums. Search and make an effort.
Because if we were to believe 2k dps is the average player that would mean 10k team dps, which translate into 1hr an average ISA completion. Not saying that ISA doesn't finish 1hr for some players but averag means players finish from 1 min to 1 hr to more than hour to e,g. 2 hours.
Do majority players experience 1 hr average finish in ISA to justify that 2k dps for an average player be true?
Because You don't know how DPS works. Can't get top dps in ISA if you don't have a nanny debuffer nor a tank at HSE.
All your information is coming from hating dpsers and the lack of understanding how in game mechanics works. Heck you even demand information to be spoonfed to you.
Kemo stacking is an exploit. But removing it won't change the same set of people doing top dps.
I'm not going to start looking things up to prove your claim true. I have no reason to not believe what you say and feel. Although your distrustful nature on these forums is a little suspicious in itself. Still I choose to trust your word and experiences without looking for proof, I'm nice like that, until they get to claims on me or my personality.
My proof is also "freely available" in the forums.
As someone that's been playing this game since F2P I've done ISA enough times to know what to do so I don't need to be carried. However when I was using the summer event ferengi ship I found myself grav welling the nanite spheres and debuffing them along with the other targets as well as other STFs for other players to make their DPS more effective because that's the intelligent way to play when you're pugging instead of running ahead to the transformers I chose to be a team player rather than DPSing my way through. Thanks to the fanatic PvE DPS crowd people are under the impression that DPS solves everything.
To quote Lex Luther: "WRONG!!!!!"
P.S. I never said anything about fixing Kemo making a massive difference in DPS that was someone else.
I would however love it if the devs actually took all abilities and consoles/gear in this game and balanced it all to make the game more playable for other classes than the DPS crowd. Like the Debuff crowd or the tank crowd.
Apparently you dont get laziness nor any who makes hours of post information without actually researching the correct information. If I post a parse like this:
"https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyw0tu2oij8nfrk/Feli 226k.log?dl=0"
Would you or any who makes claims about their information actually be able to read all of those? If you dont have the reader, wont that constitute you as being lazy? Why spend hours posting nonsene in the forums when it takes a few seconds/mins to actually download and find those STO parsers or readers or find the correct information?
If you do have the reader, why even bother ask information when all the parses are in their respective tables including the link I gave you? Lazy to look at the table and each parse?
Those information contains everything including if 2K average dps is true or not, if ever your claims in another thread that a team with 0% resistances can complete an STF. If there is debuffing or not, or if there is tanking or not. Or if there is healing or not.
But of course you must make an effort. The information is publicly available but players who keep posting misinformation and spend hours in General discussion forum wont even spend time getting that information.
Please quote people from DPS crowd who said so. Meaning Player-Admin from either DPS league exactly what you said. From the looks of it, you are the only saying that and just merely conveniently blaming the DPS crowd was saying that.
Dont quote someone like yourself who claims that he does "30k DPS" and claim to be part of the DPS crowd. We need official representatives of the DPS crowd not some random player or TRIBBLE.
Except players actually debuff and tank. The more prominent the tanks and debuff the higher your DPS is.
You can even look at the link that I posted above to see the Debuff and Aggro stats. Of course if you actually make an effort to read it and understand the parse and understand that players actually do debuff and tank in this game.
The problem seems to be your biggotry of hatred in the DPS crowd and the lack of understanding of the mechanics.
I'm not going to quote people because this happens on team chat in STFs and I'm not in the habit of recording chat. The fact that there a lot of threads complaining about the DPS crowd from several different people complaining to a similar extent that PvErs use to complain about the PvP crowd proves that I'm not the only one getting annoyed and frustrated with the attitude of a lot of players in this game. Not that it's their fault entirely, the developers have worked hard to make this game a power creep DPS fest.
The game is now turning into DPS online, which is a big change from the previous escorts online.
I'm not in the DPS league and make no claims that I am a part of the DPS crowd, I don't know if you meant that or you typed it by accident. I avoid the current meta and therefore can't be part of that crowd. Not that I even want to. However a friend I normally play with has parsed me in a few STFs and missions, he has yet to test me in ISA but that's a little superfluous now.
As a side note, you've accepted that I am a PvPer and saying a PvPer has no understanding of this game's mechanics is a laughable comment to make. Seeing as every PvPer has to PvE and does it well to get the gear.
Another side note is the difference between my main PvE build and my PvP build, my PvP build hits for 4k+ DPS and can bring down tanks but its completely useless for PvE. Hence why I use a different ship and a different build entirely. If I had no understanding of the game mechanics why would I bother using a different build?
Yeah a faster ship would sure help
I just had the best I could get on that particular level 10 toon, but I use evasive maneuvers offensively to change position with any toon as the situation warrants. You don't always have to save it to dodge with, and it makes a handy tool for moving a little faster when full impulse isn't available
I've taken 23 tons over and over again (and at low level) into PVE queus without getting a single AFK penalty. Like I said, this came as a shock, and I know I performed at least as well as usual, so something else in the enviroment has to have changed. Way I figure it I was in a group with 4 other people doing at a minimum 60 times each, what my toon was able to do, fully loaded, so that would roughly be 240 to one, or less than half a percent.
I'm also not an anti-dps bigot, as some folks may suspect. I just want to bring attention to the fact that a good build for a level 10 toon isn't really able to meet the demands of a maxed out high dps build enviroment, and that the game is mixing them together without any way to see who is being queued with who. Mostly at the expense of the low leveler imho. For my part, I wouldn't intentionally mix a level 10 with anything like a level 55-50 high dps crowd. At least not in an open PVE enviroment.
SO I blame the game, not the players who go for high dps. I go for higher dps with my higher level toons also. I don't have any Kemocite, but I could care less about it.
Anyway, again, thanks for sharing the vids
Qapla
I agree that in some ways, the game shouldn't put high and low level characters together. It's similar to why most people pvp only once... they come up against a premade, or even just a single decent player, get annihilated despite having all the best stuff, and then rage quit. For both pvp and pve, there should be some sort of grading system, probably based on experience level rather than gear, but I don't know how you'd begin to do that. There are players who have been in the game since beta, and still haven't finished all the reps on their 1 and only toon.
I don't like the idea of separating high and low levels completely. It's nice to help friends and fleet mates level quicker, or grind marks etc. The AFK mechanic does need to be looked at though.
I went into a pug ISA the other night, and it had already failed when I warped in. By the time I'd full impulsed over to the left, there was a guy raging about how TRIBBLE the team was. As we continued, he started telling people to 'focus fire on the gateway'... this is while both transformers were still alive and the first spawn of nanite spheres were healing the left one. Obviously I ignored him. Eventually we got to the right side... he then starts bitching that there's a tac escort player doing no dps and that he sucked... I checked the log, and he was doing the highest dps in the team! What's funny, is the guy giving all the orders, saying that everyone sucks, and complaining about other people's dps was actually only doing 4K and was the lowest dps in the team.
Now if I wasn't parsing, I wouldn't know this. So to most people, it would look like a dps guy was saying everyone sucks... when actually the guy doing the highest dps wasn't saying a word. I've had situations like this loads of times. It's usually the low end guy that rages in team chat, not the dps crowd.
Since I always parse (when I remember to) my ISA runs, I can tell you that 99% of the time someone calls everyone else an idiot in chat in that map, it's actually one of the lowest DPS guys in the group. The way they talk people would assume that he's some DPS elitist monster, when in reality he's just a sad person probably infuriated by the number of failed runs he/she has been having.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Cryptic made this game into what it is,not the dps'ers,not the pvp'ers and certainly not new players. You can rage about certain groups or you can get your head outta your whereever and learn how to play. There are many good sources teaching just that,starting with youtube. I don't want anyone to be excluded from any part of the game but there are certain expectations to be met,just like any other mmo out there.
As far as getting afk penalties for not getting enough damage in the low level stf's,that definitely isn't right either and should be addressed but probably won't be,unfortunately. I wish I had some idea how to fix the problem but not knowing anything about coding,I'm pretty much clueless as to what could be implemented.
For one thing,"normal" stf's are ridiculously easy,and perhaps contribute to players thinking that they can complete higher tier stf's. This just isn't true,no matter how much we would wish it to be so. It takes time to get the things you need to compete at a high level. Be patient,play the game and do your reputation grind because many of the things you need are in there. You don't hafta spend money to be a decent player,the tools are in there,you just gotta get them and use them effectively. Instead of throwing boff powers in haphazardly,look at how the skills interact with each other and use them to boost your potential. Sit in sector space(DS9,ESD etc.) and activate your skills. Watch the cooldowns on them and other skills they have an effect on. Subsystem power levels are very important also. You can change them to your liking,adding points where needed but you'll lose points in other subsystems. There are many clickable icons that don't get any explanations so experiment with them. For example,there are 3 different ways to setup your subsystems,all done on 1 clickable icon on that graph. Those icons are there for a reason,use them even if they don't get any explanation. Just a few basics that maybe will help you to get up to speed.
If you wanna rage,then rage at the people making the game the way it is. Last time I checked it isn't any of the players doing it,it's the company putting it out there. Just remember there are many ways that people enjoy the game and doing high end content is mine. Any and all are welcome but please do a bit of looking around and you just might find the answers you need to be a competent and contributing teammate.
The marks and dil reward just weren't worth the effort for the time required to carry that match, so i just went to Voth BZ and got my dil there instead doing the dailies.
Love or hate powerful players, love or hate overpowered or bugged gear, when encountering the unknown randomness of the public queues and the huge difference in skill and understanding of game mechanics to be successful you need powerful players in this game to carry the less skilled through matches. Without them if every team and myself included were as strong as the 4 i ran with in that ISA, public queues would be deader than they already are as none could complete them with optionals.
Well i learned my lesson about pugging advanced and that is not to do it and join or make pre made games with players i know have the build and skill to complete them.
I pugged a CSA once , just to test stuff and the parse was on ... the run ended up with me doing 44k and all of the other players around 4k ... Now, I don't know very well how parsing works in that stf : I just know that the map is very large therefore the parsing isn't accurate although I remember going back and forth from the Cubes and the Kang ... Anyway, I might be wrong but their dps seemed too low to queue up for that advanced stf : I mean ... you gotta kill something.
I have friends from other games and I've just started playing a new one sometimes and this seems to be the only game where there's this hatred towards DPS.
Given that the PvE is actually very DPS-oriented ( but not only Tacs can dish out DPS : looking at you, sci captains), wouldn't it be better to help players improve their teamwork and learn game mechanics in the current meta?
I'm seeing quite better teamwork in the new game that I am playing right now.
Unless you love staying in your corner, hating all of the DPSers and failing all of the queues, because you can't even make a decent drain/debuffing build : did I tell you how smooth was an ISA which I pugged together with a famous PvP drainer?
Sorry for the off-topic ( it's a thread about kemocite).
@ 44k dps, the others need not do anything, besides pick off left overs!
So, don't expect much of them, when you are killing everything by yourself!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I think I have been supporting the idea that the game is to blame for power mismatches, and not the DPSers or player of low levelers. really, who wants to HAVE to carry someone, and really, who with any dignity wants to be carried? For sure nobody wants to be carried to an AFK result!
I already know I don't play ISA, and even with my good builds, I don't plan on it any time soon. I figure when I can hold my own with equal kills with one of our Fleet DPSers in a sparring match, that will be the time.
I do look in the chat window to see how I am doing, and it's not bad, just not as good as my high DPSers. As far as 'parsing' goes, isn't it true you can still get a decent idea how your doing based off the details in your chat window? It seems to be pretty informative to me, and in challenges afterwards you always see the points there also, but just in a lump. I know some do, and some don't parse, but how does anyone reading this explain their preference either way.
I can read what a console, or a boff does, and see how they help me, and I have a calculator, and I can read the chat window, so what is very wrong with that?
Thanks in advance. Also though ....
I see a lot off angry happening online, and I think we are mad at the wrong things or people. Why isn't there some group in this community that just tries to bridge the gaps between everyone? We really aren't all that different, in spite of different goals. I want to bring my discouraged Fleet players back, and add to them with new people who want a safe group to learn in. Otherwise, I am in this game for the fun. PVE, PVP. Jokes in the chat bar. Whatever.
Aren't the majority here to have fun, and if so why do people get weirdly hostile at each other? I mean aren't we all a little bit 'Trekkie', and shouldn't that almost preclude any of us having petty squabbles? I'm on day three of not feeling like playing, and have just been going through discussions, posting where I feel the topic is important, or entertaining. I was almost always to busy playing to bother. Not sure what I think except there is a lot of subtle, and not so subtle hostility. Now I think that is the biggest 'game bug' of all.
I also see lots of people trying to help each other, and that makes me think it's going to be alright. I'm a bit sleepy, probably typing funny. Y'know what, I'm gonna come back later.
Curious about parsing, versus just paying good attention. Also curious about why we Trekkers have little squabbles when we should know better. Thanks and done for now
Qapla
Obviously if something dies fast and big yellow numbers appear, that gives you an indication of where you're at in a really basic sense, but parsing gives you so much more.
In essence, all a parser does is read the combatlog file that STO creates and displays the information in an easily digestible way.
It show what weapon did what damage and when. What killed who. How much shield healing you did vs hull healing etc etc etc.
A really useful thing for me is to look at the dps graph to see when I was doing damage, and when it was falling away, and then working out why (usually down to positioning).
Are they necessary? Of course not, but if knowledge is power, and you want to delve into the nitty gritty of what is doing what, then they're very useful.
Might be worth giving it a try, even if you delete it again after.
But they aren't easy to navigate, and there's no sorting tabs to make your search easier.
I do however use the chat logs for checking things on the fly (when Im too lazy to parse), like big hits from my TR116b, and other attacks.. Feedback pulse in ker'rat...amongst other uses.
But parsing is superior to get a better overall picture of what's going on, and how effective you are through a period of time. Plus the added bonus of sorting the damge and heals, accuracy, crit chance, crit hits, spike damage, etc etc.
There's nothing wrong if you don't want to parse. Its not required. But it is helpful for people looking for a more in-depth analysis of what occurred during a particular queue.
As far a groups squaring off against each...it in our nature as humans to rally against things that are different from ourselves. Like in zone chat, you'll see things like "Oh I hate JJTrek, or I hate this captain, or I hate that series"
"Some" People like to categorize themselves into certain boxes. It makes it easier to identify with other like minded individuals.
But if we are honest, our declarations wouldn't be so extreme, as an example, I don't necessarily love Enterprise series, but there are great moments within said series for me.
Or in Star Trek 5, many people HATE this movie... but Kirk delivers one of his finest lines of all time in it... "I need my Pain dammit"
In large groups it seems people like to box themselves off for whatever psychological reason they may have, like feeling more connected with other likeminded individuals.
I try to stay away from that sort of thinking, but it is in our nature to do such things. Just be cognizant of this, and try to avoid it wherever possible. Like you say, we are all here (mostly) for the Trek, and we all enjoy Trek in some similar fasion, whether it be TOS/TNG/ENT/DS9/ or Voyager..
We're all in the same Trek box if you think about, and as you stated it.
But they'll also always be some strife between different groups like PvP and PvE because their goals are not aligned.
Some things the PvP community wanted nerfed, the PvE community did not. and vice versa.. its just part of the world we live in.
Truth is most will debate in a civil manner, even if things are getting heated.
There's very few who do go out of their way to cause arguments, and to troll, or stoke the fires between different groups.
But this is the case all around us, Republican vs Democrat, Cowboys vs Patriots, Bruins vs Canadiens. Politics and Sports is an extreme example, of people acting irrationally toward one group or another.
I guess all we can do is to try and debate in a civil, respectful manner, and to ignore fire starters and trolls (which some people have a real hard time doing), and it would go a long way to realize not everyone will agree with us. And that our opinons are not always right.
The world is too Grey a place, for black and white arguments.
We should realize this and we'll all be the better for it. And the debates will become that much more productive.
Keelah Se'lai
Jolan Tru
Quapla
Live Long and Prosper
Thanks, I'll give it a look
Qapla
Well said. I take that with me today
Keelah Se'lai
Jolan Tru
Qapla
Live Long and Prosper
Yeah, one cube should almost be THE mission entirely, but I bet we don't see that again
Qapla
We need to do a few runs together one day w/ @jetlaya90 and show you what livin' dat PuG Lyfe the "right way" is all about
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.