Well from exploring the public queues this weekend it does seem that the average PUG does prefer to fail a STF rather than be rewarded for beating it. So i guess having a powerful player with or without kemocite that can carry a team is frowned upon in the world of loss and failure
I've only done crystalline this past week but I've done it around 20 times. Only saw a NON Kemocite group once this morning.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Realistically a player doesn't have to buy zen store items to be sold on the exchange. Just spend 15mins crafting then sell for 10's of millions. That's what I do, spend a little bit of time crafting Friday, go to sleep then wake up with 100million sold on Saturdays. So I don't see how its pay to win. I never touched lockboxes or zen to buy any of my copy's.
Crafting what exactly? 100 beams to get the one triple CRITD that sells for 1 million on the exchange? or 1000 RCS or exciters to get the good trait? WHat am I missing? Please enlighten.
Experimental upgrades in stacks of 10, 50, or 100 sell very well and make me 10's of millions on the nights they sell. Seem to sell best on Friday and Sat night.
Experimental upgrades in stacks of 10, 50, or 100 sell very well and make me 10's of millions on the nights they sell. Seem to sell best on Friday and Sat night.
I appreciate the answer. I'll look into it to see if it's much more profit than selling the materials separately. Would be a good project.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not to worry, with the next lockbox, we can expect a kemo fix, and there will be a whole new flagrantly broken lockbox ability.
It's almost like people forgot all the other broken stuff that happened in the past. Lol hilarious how everyone forgot how OP plasma explosions were (still are).
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
How can it be less fun if you will be getting the same rewards as the guys who have Kemocite weapons??? Its not as if you'll be in that sort of STF all the time. I would say if you can afford decent weaponry then good luck. The higher the DPS the better. I certainly do not want weaker powered weapons, no sir no thankyou.
I want to get the mission rewards, not flagged as AFK because I didn't have a freaking planet killer to do DPS with. The DPS difference in missions that mix level 5 with level 60, then penalize the little ship/toon are my new official pet peeve. I don't usually know who else is in the que. I don't know if I am teaming with someone who will make my contribution look like nothing to the AFK penalty bots. SO yeah IT CAN BE LESS FUN!
Anyway. Not getting mission rewards because the game doesn't see me makes me mad. It doesn't see me because my toon in this example is small already, and there is no way to dodge ending up accidentally surrounded by DPS gods! No offense to DPS gods, we have them in our Fleet and appreciate them, but a new toon can't team with them in a fleet action, and a new toon doesn't always have a bunch of other new toons to team with to go in as a unit. Especially since my friends with low level toons are already bailing on STO regularly for the above discussed reasons.
I don't want to take things away, but I am very much with people who are frustrated when we take a legit toon, and get punished for taking a mission with them. Jeeze I thought I was done being angry with this. Sorry.
Your fine, but some things aren't, and I wish they would fix stuff.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Generally speaking, Someone getting AFK means some player is doing 2Kish DPS or less in ISA or CCA which I dont consider as an average player. The problem aint the average player and DPS Wizard in the same STF since I believe an average player should be able to do at least 9k+ DPS in the current power creep. It is the Abysmal DPS player vs DPS Wizard that can create AFK Penatly since you need 1% of total team damage.
We can actually check, 188k DPS of the top CCA player in SCM table. Those who got AFK are doing roughly around 2Kish DPS or below. While those doing 3K+ didnt get AFK Penalty. Those 2Kish players or below dont even qualify for minimum mission requirements for Advance STFs. Thus, dont even belong in Advance or not contributing to an Advance team and belongs at normal because they are dead weights. Lucky for that team they had that 188k DPSer to carry those dead weight players. Otherwise frustration for the rest of the team,
I'm sure it's fun for those who have kemocite-laced weapons and like to push the upper limits of DPS, maybe enter the all-time-global top 10 if there is such a thing and certainly it is arguably one of the best looking effects in the game. However, if I have to be honest, when I enter an STF with someone who has these weapons I back off too the point of not playing, what's the point?
Kemocite weapons are so disproportionately powered to everything else if you don't have them you can't keep up. Seriously, I was playing in an Advanced Iconian STF and had two guys with kemocite laying down so much explosions that I think I fired my beams once and the entire group of ships was destroyed.
Even the NPC (baddies) stand little chance of surviving or putting up little of any kind of challenge. It doesn't make the game unplayable but it does make it less fun - it is like this is the reverse of the STF revamp when Advance was made impenetrable to everyone who didn't have the very best gear and Elite STFs were an unbeatable pointless hell.
And no, I don't think the solution is if you can't beat them join them. I don't want to fnd 50 - 100mil credits for the training manual on the exchange, likewise the game was about variety - it would be TRIBBLE if we needed Kemocite not to beat the game but simply to play with each other.
Needs fixing.
So let me get this straight:
Someone that goes in and outperforms you, just sulk there?
Let me say this also: Let's say KLW gets nerfed. I know for a fact there will still be plenty of guys that will far outperform you with or without it. I know for a fact that they will still smash NPCs. You going to sulk there still?
The simple fact is this. The PVE of this game is a joke. Always has been. Always will be. The NPCs are stupid and Cryptic has introduced season after season after season of Power Creep. Take KLW away and I promise you, there will be plenty of guys smoke checking your performance making the PVE of this game a joke still. It was a joke even before KLW.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Generally speaking, Someone getting AFK means some player is doing 2Kish DPS or less in ISA or CCA which I dont consider as an average player. The problem aint the average player and DPS Wizard in the same STF since I believe an average player should be able to do at least 9k+ DPS in the current power creep. It is the Abysmal DPS player vs DPS Wizard that can create AFK Penatly since you need 1% of total team damage.
We can actually check, 188k DPS of the top CCA player in SCM table. Those who got AFK are doing roughly around 2Kish DPS or below. While those doing 3K+ didnt get AFK Penalty. Those 2Kish players or below dont even qualify for minimum mission requirements for Advance STFs. Thus, dont even belong in Advance or not contributing to an Advance team and belongs at normal because they are dead weights. Lucky for that team they had that 188k DPSer to carry those dead weight players. Otherwise frustration for the rest of the team,
Look, I created a new toon. I got them to level 5. The PVE mission for Starbase 24 comes up then. I waited till I had level 10, and T2 gear, including the ship, then went to do Fleet alert. I ran the mission, and use Cruiser commands to assist my team. I fired my torps at downed shields, drained some shields, and kept pew'pew'ing with my two phaser arrays. I never stopped, and I saw my hits in the chat after action. I was still AFK'd by the ref bot. It was not an advanced difficulty. I was surrounded by DPS 'wizards'.
Where I get angry is that is is a colossal waste of my time to accept a mission the game clearly thinks I should be accepting (offered pretty much automatically when you hit the minimum level). Cause when I accept it, and go to do it for Skill points, Marks and stuff, (aargh!) it doesn't SEE me! As far as the 'average player' arguement goes, I am not an average player. This ain't my first rodeo. I am leveling toon 25 out of 50 right now. (yes, I have 50, most are waiting for me to level them) Not being new to this, I expected to be useful, as I had been useful in the past with a T1 Miranda.
Not so! Even though I bought 1000 zen worth of gear to support my toon, and had gear for Lt Cmdr. I suppose I was running a roughly avarage level 10 toon in any case. Got the AFK tag, didn't get the reward. I did get some loot, but I wanted the mission rewards not the loot. Also, I was penalized for two hours. I don't blame the DPS 'wizards', but I do blame Cryptic for not doing more to recognize the beast they have built. The levels allowed are 5 to 60. There is no screening process. Level 5 in a game with level 60, has a good chance of getting AFK'd! Not carried to victory, but AFK'd!
My toon was level 10, which was good enough for my first 23 characters to do the mission. My 24th hasn't tried it yet. Number 25 was AFK'd. If they need to fix it by creating a different mission for low levels I don't care, but raising the level cap was good, but had consequences that are felt by those still well below it. Cryptic should fix it.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Generally speaking, Someone getting AFK means some player is doing 2Kish DPS or less in ISA or CCA which I dont consider as an average player. The problem aint the average player and DPS Wizard in the same STF since I believe an average player should be able to do at least 9k+ DPS in the current power creep. It is the Abysmal DPS player vs DPS Wizard that can create AFK Penatly since you need 1% of total team damage.
We can actually check, 188k DPS of the top CCA player in SCM table. Those who got AFK are doing roughly around 2Kish DPS or below. While those doing 3K+ didnt get AFK Penalty. Those 2Kish players or below dont even qualify for minimum mission requirements for Advance STFs. Thus, dont even belong in Advance or not contributing to an Advance team and belongs at normal because they are dead weights. Lucky for that team they had that 188k DPSer to carry those dead weight players. Otherwise frustration for the rest of the team,
Look, I created a new toon. I got them to level 5. The PVE mission for Starbase 24 comes up then. I waited till I had level 10, and T2 gear, including the ship, then went to do Fleet alert. I ran the mission, and use Cruiser commands to assist my team. I fired my torps at downed shields, drained some shields, and kept pew'pew'ing with my two phaser arrays. I never stopped, and I saw my hits in the chat after action. I was still AFK'd by the ref bot. It was not an advanced difficulty. I was surrounded by DPS 'wizards'.
Where I get angry is that is is a colossal waste of my time to accept a mission the game clearly thinks I should be accepting (offered pretty much automatically when you hit the minimum level). Cause when I accept it, and go to do it for Skill points, Marks and stuff, (aargh!) it doesn't SEE me! As far as the 'average player' arguement goes, I am not an average player. This ain't my first rodeo. I am leveling toon 25 out of 50 right now. (yes, I have 50, most are waiting for me to level them) Not being new to this, I expected to be useful, as I had been useful in the past with a T1 Miranda.
Not so! Even though I bought 1000 zen worth of gear to support my toon, and had gear for Lt Cmdr. I suppose I was running a roughly avarage level 10 toon in any case. Got the AFK tag, didn't get the reward. I did get some loot, but I wanted the mission rewards not the loot. Also, I was penalized for two hours. I don't blame the DPS 'wizards', but I do blame Cryptic for not doing more to recognize the beast they have built. The levels allowed are 5 to 60. There is no screening process. Level 5 in a game with level 60, has a good chance of getting AFK'd! Not carried to victory, but AFK'd!
My toon was level 10, which was good enough for my first 23 characters to do the mission. My 24th hasn't tried it yet. Number 25 was AFK'd. If they need to fix it by creating a different mission for low levels I don't care, but raising the level cap was good, but had consequences that are felt by those still well below it. Cryptic should fix it.
Thanks
How do you know they were wizards? Did you parse it? If so can please share the parse?
Otherwise how to know if these are Wizards vs you or Average players vs you?
If you didnt parse, How to know you are actually contributing to the mission or the team or you are just dead weight?
remember, buying stuff doesnt equate you contributing to team. Besides, a player getting AFK means the player doesnt belong in Advance nor Elite missions. And I already stated proof why a player getting AFK are dead weights in Advance/Elite STFs in my post above which replied to.
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
Well from exploring the public queues this weekend it does seem that the average PUG does prefer to fail a STF rather than be rewarded for beating it. So i guess having a powerful player with or without kemocite that can carry a team is frowned upon in the world of loss and failure
This is not meant as a slight against people upping their DPS as far as they can, but:
I am in this game to play this game. When I enter an STF I want to play that STF. Sure, sometimes the reward is the main idea, but just getting it is not what I am here for. So yes, I'd rather be losing an STF than getting an insta-reward.
That being said, I don't blame the 100k crowd for this. It is either my fault for not keeping up (though all my toons, except one but I'll change that, do reasonably well to regularily earn their first places in CCA) or the game design's fault for letting the power gap grow too far. Still a queue where somebody kills everything before I can make a decent contribution is a waste of time for me and not enjoyable.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I have an idea. Lets wait until kemocite is fixed before anyone calls it OP...
Cryptic knows it's bugged. It will get fixed. When it's fixed, it will go back to being like it was before: A nice power to have but not huge bump in DPS.
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
Kemo isnt a determing factor why Mobs getting nuked.
Even if we hypothetical nerf Kemo to the ground, those players nuking mobs will still be nuking mobs.
It is player skill disparity. The self entitled players got what they wanted by nerfing advance to normal+ many months ago.
Now they are complaining the realities of playing at Advance or Elite STFs wherein an abysmal skilled player mixes with average player. I dont even think those complaining about mobs getting killed before they get there were teamed with DPS wizards but rather average players and an abysmal player.
There is a very small chance to actually team up with DPS wizards in a PuG due to the small population who can actually do 100k DPS in a PuG since 100k in a dps channel run is very different from a PuG run. Also teaming up with 100k DPSer isnt an assured AFK. A player must do below the STF minimum requirements just to get AFK.
Odd, I've never noticed Kemocite lag. Either on the two characters of mine that use it, or the 12 that do not. I only use a single copy, heard that the bugt involves multiple copies and multi-triggering. Well, that needs to be fixed but frankly I have not seen my parses affected that much by Kemocite, It's higher-but not insanely higher. Maybe 3k-5k. Piloting is the most important, traits and gear second, things like Kemocite 3rd. Don't nerf the hell out of it, just fix the bug.
Odd, I've never noticed Kemocite lag. Either on the two characters of mine that use it, or the 12 that do not. I only use a single copy, heard that the bugt involves multiple copies and multi-triggering. Well, that needs to be fixed but frankly I have not seen my parses affected that much by Kemocite, It's higher-but not insanely higher. Maybe 3k-5k. Piloting is the most important, traits and gear second, things like Kemocite 3rd. Don't nerf the hell out of it, just fix the bug.
I've never noticed it either. I use it on 2 of my characters and it makes my torp boat worthwhile. I also don't know why people are complaining because the faster an STF is complete means the sooner I can move to another one.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Generally speaking, Someone getting AFK means some player is doing 2Kish DPS or less in ISA or CCA which I dont consider as an average player. The problem aint the average player and DPS Wizard in the same STF since I believe an average player should be able to do at least 9k+ DPS in the current power creep. It is the Abysmal DPS player vs DPS Wizard that can create AFK Penatly since you need 1% of total team damage.
We can actually check, 188k DPS of the top CCA player in SCM table. Those who got AFK are doing roughly around 2Kish DPS or below. While those doing 3K+ didnt get AFK Penalty. Those 2Kish players or below dont even qualify for minimum mission requirements for Advance STFs. Thus, dont even belong in Advance or not contributing to an Advance team and belongs at normal because they are dead weights. Lucky for that team they had that 188k DPSer to carry those dead weight players. Otherwise frustration for the rest of the team,
Look, I created a new toon. I got them to level 5. The PVE mission for Starbase 24 comes up then. I waited till I had level 10, and T2 gear, including the ship, then went to do Fleet alert. I ran the mission, and use Cruiser commands to assist my team. I fired my torps at downed shields, drained some shields, and kept pew'pew'ing with my two phaser arrays. I never stopped, and I saw my hits in the chat after action. I was still AFK'd by the ref bot. It was not an advanced difficulty. I was surrounded by DPS 'wizards'.
Where I get angry is that is is a colossal waste of my time to accept a mission the game clearly thinks I should be accepting (offered pretty much automatically when you hit the minimum level). Cause when I accept it, and go to do it for Skill points, Marks and stuff, (aargh!) it doesn't SEE me! As far as the 'average player' arguement goes, I am not an average player. This ain't my first rodeo. I am leveling toon 25 out of 50 right now. (yes, I have 50, most are waiting for me to level them) Not being new to this, I expected to be useful, as I had been useful in the past with a T1 Miranda.
Not so! Even though I bought 1000 zen worth of gear to support my toon, and had gear for Lt Cmdr. I suppose I was running a roughly avarage level 10 toon in any case. Got the AFK tag, didn't get the reward. I did get some loot, but I wanted the mission rewards not the loot. Also, I was penalized for two hours. I don't blame the DPS 'wizards', but I do blame Cryptic for not doing more to recognize the beast they have built. The levels allowed are 5 to 60. There is no screening process. Level 5 in a game with level 60, has a good chance of getting AFK'd! Not carried to victory, but AFK'd!
My toon was level 10, which was good enough for my first 23 characters to do the mission. My 24th hasn't tried it yet. Number 25 was AFK'd. If they need to fix it by creating a different mission for low levels I don't care, but raising the level cap was good, but had consequences that are felt by those still well below it. Cryptic should fix it.
Thanks
How do you know they were wizards? Did you parse it? If so can please share the parse?
Otherwise how to know if these are Wizards vs you or Average players vs you?
If you didnt parse, How to know you are actually contributing to the mission or the team or you are just dead weight?
remember, buying stuff doesnt equate you contributing to team. Besides, a player getting AFK means the player doesnt belong in Advance nor Elite missions. And I already stated proof why a player getting AFK are dead weights in Advance/Elite STFs in my post above which replied to.
First off, buying stuff is how to get good gear when you are aiming for the best outcome. It comes under the concept of careful preparation, and it gave me an edge that F2P players of the 'average sort' would not have had. Better gear equals better potential, which in experienced hands means more effectiveness, and that means a larger contribution, so yes, buying stuff does equal contributing in this case because I put it all to use.
As I stated, it was an everyday ordinary Starbase defense that has level requirements starting at level FIVE, via the Fleet Alert mission It was not Advanced or Elite, but NORMAL, as I previously had stated. I also looked in the chat menu post battle and looked at the damages being done to and by others besides me. I was shooting pretty much the whole time I had any target, and was always moving to a new target when one was destroyed. Additionally I was boosting my team with my Cruiser commands the whole time, so they were getting help from me always. For every 150 to 200 pts I did, I saw multiple thousands of points over and over again delivered by individuals making up our team. Then my phaser, and my other phaser, then ten thousand points or some such in a few hits, over and over again, then my phaser, and my other phaser, and my torpedo in that arc. If they weren't 'wizards' the word has no useful meaning.
By the definition for "dead weight" that you seem to be trying to use, every player who gets the mission is dead weight if they are not very considerably higher than level 5, or even level 10, where my toon was at. Further, your definition of dead weight precludes the consideration that the designers very definitly intend for toons of level 5+ to be able to do these missions, and that the designers do not worry about seperating people by level when they might be 55 levels apart.
Additionally, your definition of 'dead weight' seems to ignore the very real limitations of ship choices at level 10, or the lack of duty officers, or the lack of skillpoints. Before you say 'dead weight' again, I remind you my toon was at TWICE the minimum level for joining that que, I had gear at my max level, and I had all consoles and batteries, and Bridge officers assigned and their abilities slotted. If I am dead weight in that mission it is a game design flaw, since I had everything I could have had, ready to go, and slotted correctly, and was twice the level required to participate.
There are no guarantees in life, but I had every logical reason to believe that at twice the required level, with the best gear I could get for my level, and with all my Boffs correctly slotted, and with persistant effort on my own part, that I should have shared in the victory rewards for that mission. The only evidence I have as to why this DID NOT happen, is the unbelievable damages being issued by the other players. I followed the rules, and made my best effort. This would have happened to anyone reading this if they had been in my place, and used a level 10 toon, and a T2 ship, even with very rare consoles and weapons. Any player could have at least fired the phasers! I boosted their shields. When it was smart, I switched over to boosting other things. One thing I should never have done, in hindsight was to boost their weapons.
Anyway, I figure I had a build in the top 5% of what I could do with that toon. If that isn't good enough, then it's definitely broken for the 'avaerage player' and it is extra broken for the low level newcomer to STO. They don't even have experience to help guide their build. When I came on, there were no level 60 toons to compete with, so it was level 5 to 50 for the Fleet Alert mission. I never had this happen, and my builds weren't as good back then. I was a noob.
So I ask any of you folks out there, if the mission says level 5 - 60, and it is a normal difficulty, and you do * everything right * and your team wins, where is it proper to give someone an AFK penalty. Where is it just? If I were a total noob, where would it be right to say that what I did qualified me as dead weight? If there is no flaw, why is the game punishing a character, and by extension, me, for accepting missions when they are offered, and with gear at the top of their character level?
If there is no problem, why am I NOT the only one who has seen this issue, and tried to bring attention to it? If my level 10 toon and my best gear is dead weight for a level 5 mission, how long should I or any other low level toon player wait to try the level 5 mission, so that we aren't dead weight when we do it? Level 30? Level 40? Should I just skip normal level 5 PVE misions till I am level 60? Well then, why not just make it a level 60 mission to begin with, and don't TRIBBLE with our heads?!
SO yes, after reviewing the chat bar, I could see that I was so overshadowed that that had to be the reason. The evidence is clear to me, the game is becoming broken in the qued PVE area. Huge DPS is almost certainly what is breaking it. I don't care how they fix it so level 5's aren't in with level 60's but that would be a great start.
Let me put this one last way. You and four millionaires see a donation jar for a cancer patient needing help. All of you are moved. You along with the other four decide to put in to help. You have $1000 in the bank, so you get it, and put it in. The millionaires put in a few hundred million. Wow! The patient is saved. But then the plolice come to your door, and arrest you for not putting in enough money, and tell you you can't donate any more to charity till your out of jail. THAT is what the AFK situation is like! It's better if I don't help, or try to do anything, because I can't actually DO much, and will get punished for doing even that.
Don't miss my point here. This is wrong, and trying to justify it by telling people they should somehow magically do more damage than the game will allow them with the best gear at their current level, doesn't fix anything. Players with ability, and good intentions will continue to join these ques, and they will get AFK'd till they stop joining these ques. Then the guys who thought there was no problem can play by themselves I guess. The game as a whole, will suffer though, and nobody here should laugh that off.
Well from exploring the public queues this weekend it does seem that the average PUG does prefer to fail a STF rather than be rewarded for beating it. So i guess having a powerful player with or without kemocite that can carry a team is frowned upon in the world of loss and failure
This is not meant as a slight against people upping their DPS as far as they can, but:
I am in this game to play this game. When I enter an STF I want to play that STF. Sure, sometimes the reward is the main idea, but just getting it is not what I am here for. So yes, I'd rather be losing an STF than getting an insta-reward.
That being said, I don't blame the 100k crowd for this. It is either my fault for not keeping up (though all my toons, except one but I'll change that, do reasonably well to regularily earn their first places in CCA) or the game design's fault for letting the power gap grow too far. Still a queue where somebody kills everything before I can make a decent contribution is a waste of time for me and not enjoyable.
Yes! A waste of time, and not enjoyable. you also hit it on the head as far as I am concerned with your suggestion that problem could be (is imho) the power gap being to large. I am fine with power gaps as long as they don't make it pointless for me to participate. If you have seen me ranting already, you know what I'm on about. It isn't your fault for not keeping up if the game clearly invites you to participate at a low level, and you put in your best gear. It would be your fault if you took a Miranda with Mark 2 white gear into a level 60 only team PVE. OHH GAHWD it would be your fault. But if you are clearly following the path the game lays out for you, then it is the games fault for not having proper balance.
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
Kemo isnt a determing factor why Mobs getting nuked.
Even if we hypothetical nerf Kemo to the ground, those players nuking mobs will still be nuking mobs.
It is player skill disparity. The self entitled players got what they wanted by nerfing advance to normal+ many months ago.
Now they are complaining the realities of playing at Advance or Elite STFs wherein an abysmal skilled player mixes with average player. I dont even think those complaining about mobs getting killed before they get there were teamed with DPS wizards but rather average players and an abysmal player.
There is a very small chance to actually team up with DPS wizards in a PuG due to the small population who can actually do 100k DPS in a PuG since 100k in a dps channel run is very different from a PuG run. Also teaming up with 100k DPSer isnt an assured AFK. A player must do below the STF minimum requirements just to get AFK.
The only abysmally skilled players are going to be complete noobs, or have a mental deficiency. Anyone who has been playing a few years and testing builds and tactics in PVP, at all, is not going to be in that catagory. Most noobs even are at least able to understand that a weapon or shield boosting console is good. Most folks know that your Boffs have nice abilities, and know what those abilities are suppossed to do, and that the career of a Boff predisposes your tactical options. I figure most people have got training their Boffs down just fine as well. Still the 'average' player does not exist except as an idea, and everyone has a diferent idea.
Different players have different goals, and some are more excited about PVP/PVE and pure combat builds. There is probably something like an 'avarage' PVP'r but they would not be average in any sense of the broader game. People who play the broader game are not combat illiterate nincompoops, because they do have to be good enough at ship combat to play the story PVE, and patrol PVE. These are what I would call 'average' players if I was asked. I would not call them 'abysmal'. I would say that they might seem abysmal to a dedicated PVP warrior, but since the 'average' put thier energy into more aspects of the game, I would say they are more at the heart of what keeps all of this going.
Not knowing except from recent posts, and I could be wrong, but to me some of you come across as casually dismissive of a lot of your fellow players. Sorry, not trying to be rude. I feel like you are missing the point of what some of us are trying to say about the game, and DPS. You know what it takes to generate even 50k DPS right?
My understanding of the 'average' player from my Fleet experience is that they roughly have 800-1600 dps available (4-8 weapons on a target at say 200 dps each) before boosting with abilities and consoles. Your doing about 40 times that much damage with 50k. That means you have to boost your weapons by maybe 4000%. We have some dedicated PVP'rs in our Fleet. They are the warrior elite. It may be that they can do that kind of damage, or more, but I haven't had the opportunity to spar with them for awhile. They are better at it than me, but they still find me challenging at times. I would not call myself 'elite' but merely 'skilled'. I would not call any of my people abysmal. Nobody but our Elite can probably do 50k based on sparring matches.
We are a small Fleet, so we are not all on at the same time very often. Usually we have to fly alone. As a team when we are all online at the same time, we are good together, and we win. It isn't instantaneous. We teach the low tier ships how to contribute in PVP, by training, and coaching them in slower paced missions. The dedicated PVP'rs when on board do a lot of the killing, but they get a lot of help. Nobody is 'dead weight' and as a team, we do try to make sure everyone gets in on any big kills. It is a kind of etiquette. We pass on a lot of loot so that nobody gets it all. It is a different play style than some, I suppose.
In any case, a standard of 50k may as well make you a 'wizard'. I confess that I do not know where in STO that term was first applied, or if there are any rules in who it should be applied to. All I know is that it is well above any common damage outputs I have seen, and is more like what I see when sparring with our elite. I also know that nobody is going to do 50k with a T2 ship, ever, unless Cryptic can make money off of it someday. I know that those ships are flown by all kinds of players. Call them elite, or skilled, or average, or abysmal, but whatever you call them, realize that the game design does not allow any of them to exceed a certain amount of DPS, or impulse speed, or shield strength no matter what the captain does, or what consoles they use, because it isn't a T6 ship. It's T2.
In a mission where everyone has mk 12+ gear, 7+ consoles, 7+ weapons, purple Doffs and fully trained Boffs in all positions, all on T6 ships, that is awesome fire power. However there is no proper way for a T2 ship with mk 4 gear, 4 consoles, no Doffs, and skills appropriate to a level 10 officer to measure up to that. Yet, and this has been my whole point on these kinds of discussions ... the game will put them together! THE GAME!
A player can be awesome but they use a toon to interact, and a toon is only as good as his level, and the level of his resources. When the game puts these disparate power levels into a team, then makes the team compete against itself by establishing minimum contributions, it puts the high DPS players in a position where they can't help, CAN'T HELP, but to TRIBBLE things up for the less powerful players present.
I seriously doubt they want to TRIBBLE up anyone, but the game is doing wrong by the DPS'rs as well. It makes them the bad guy! So people like tehbubbaloo, who I would normally love to have on a team, becomes a liability to me. He becomes MY dead weight! Because he is there kicking SO MUCH hinnie, I don't get to properly go about doing the mission I came to do. If he helps me to much, he kills it for me, and gets me penalized on top of it all. But tehbubbaloo is not the bad guy. The game that throws tehbubbaloo's toon into the same team mission with a level 5-10 toon is the real badguy!
Paxdawn has called low DPS'rs dead weight, and abysmal players, but lets examine that. If the DPS is so high that victory is assured, the low DPS ship wasn't needed, but if they have an ability that boosts the team even a little, they are not dead weight, but actually helpful. Not to mention that high DPS'rs that can't find a fifth player to que with aren't earning anything anyway so why not take the fifth player regardless? As for abysmal, some players are! No doubt about it! But even an abysmal player can soak a plasma torpedo, and respawn, and it is a community game, so when I play high level toons, I just play for the team, and don't care if there are nuggets in the squadron. They have a right to be here also.
All I want is for the DEVS to fix it so that low level toons can avoid the trap of being qued with level 60/T6 who have the instakill abilities. It matters to me especially as a Fleet leader bringing new people to the game. My pet peeve remains the game element that makes the AFKs happen when players were actually playing to win. It isn't a players fault who ends up on his que. I have nothing against high DPS'rs. I only wish they didn't end up in the same games with my low level toons
Fixing kemo seems to be too much time consuming. Reducing dilithium rewards is much more faster.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Fixing kemo seems to be too much time consuming. Reducing dilithium rewards is much more faster.
That might be a good solution from Cryptic's point of view. The could "fix" Kemo 3 different ways
1: Actually fix it so that it works as it should - This is time consuming and actually costs money and it may hurt their bottom line. Imagine how many keys that they sell for the purposes of winning kemocite and/or selling said keys to buy kemocite.
2: Pull a "Plasma Embassy Consoles" style "fix" in which kemocite is further broken in a purposeful manner meaning much much less damage - This is risky since they will risk losing sales from keys and of course there will be the player's wrath.
3: Drop Dilithium Rewards For Queues - This doesn't affect their key sales, and people won't complain about the nerfing of their newest precious broken ability. People will have to actually PLAY MORE to earn the rewards that they are used to which has a chance of leading to higher sales! BRILLIANT!!!
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Its triggers when not active and you get extra triggers base on how many copy's slotted. It also triggers on some weapon launch and hit. The short version is we are getting a lot more kemo hits then we should be and the extra hits are causing lag.
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
10k for you, 40k - 100k for some others it would seem!!!
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
10k for you, 40k - 100k for some others it would seem!!!
Only because they are exploiting the multi-stacking bug.
Seriously.. the only reason we are seeing such inflated numbers from Kemo is because of the bug. Fix the multi-proc and multi-stack proc and you'll find that it isn't that powerful an ability at all.
In a mission where everyone has mk 12+ gear, 7+ consoles, 7+ weapons, purple Doffs and fully trained Boffs in all positions, all on T6 ships, that is awesome fire power. However there is no proper way for a T2 ship with mk 4 gear, 4 consoles, no Doffs, and skills appropriate to a level 10 officer to measure up to that. Yet, and this has been my whole point on these kinds of discussions ... the game will put them together! THE GAME!
Yeah I feel for you. A T2 ship was never intended to go toe-to-toe with a T6 (much less a fully geared T6) ship. The fact that there are queues with such a wide range of levels allowed (5-60) isn't good design IMO. It's not your fault for being T2, neither were your team overpowered (or even "wizards as you put it). It's the game's fault for allowing you and them to share the same queues with the potential for an AFK penalty.
im not sure why so many people think kemo is such a determining factor. kemo makes up about 10k of my usual 50-55k dps. even if it were completely removed from the game i would still outdamage the vast majority of the people i pug with. i think ops issue isnt so much with kemo as it is an issue of knowing how to set up his ship properly.
Kemo isnt a determing factor why Mobs getting nuked.
Even if we hypothetical nerf Kemo to the ground, those players nuking mobs will still be nuking mobs.
It is player skill disparity. The self entitled players got what they wanted by nerfing advance to normal+ many months ago.
Now they are complaining the realities of playing at Advance or Elite STFs wherein an abysmal skilled player mixes with average player. I dont even think those complaining about mobs getting killed before they get there were teamed with DPS wizards but rather average players and an abysmal player.
There is a very small chance to actually team up with DPS wizards in a PuG due to the small population who can actually do 100k DPS in a PuG since 100k in a dps channel run is very different from a PuG run. Also teaming up with 100k DPSer isnt an assured AFK. A player must do below the STF minimum requirements just to get AFK.
The only abysmally skilled players are going to be complete noobs, or have a mental deficiency. Anyone who has been playing a few years and testing builds and tactics in PVP, at all, is not going to be in that catagory. Most noobs even are at least able to understand that a weapon or shield boosting console is good. Most folks know that your Boffs have nice abilities, and know what those abilities are suppossed to do, and that the career of a Boff predisposes your tactical options. I figure most people have got training their Boffs down just fine as well. Still the 'average' player does not exist except as an idea, and everyone has a diferent idea.
Different players have different goals, and some are more excited about PVP/PVE and pure combat builds. There is probably something like an 'avarage' PVP'r but they would not be average in any sense of the broader game. People who play the broader game are not combat illiterate nincompoops, because they do have to be good enough at ship combat to play the story PVE, and patrol PVE. These are what I would call 'average' players if I was asked. I would not call them 'abysmal'. I would say that they might seem abysmal to a dedicated PVP warrior, but since the 'average' put thier energy into more aspects of the game, I would say they are more at the heart of what keeps all of this going.
Not knowing except from recent posts, and I could be wrong, but to me some of you come across as casually dismissive of a lot of your fellow players. Sorry, not trying to be rude. I feel like you are missing the point of what some of us are trying to say about the game, and DPS. You know what it takes to generate even 50k DPS right?
My understanding of the 'average' player from my Fleet experience is that they roughly have 800-1600 dps available (4-8 weapons on a target at say 200 dps each) before boosting with abilities and consoles. Your doing about 40 times that much damage with 50k. That means you have to boost your weapons by maybe 4000%. We have some dedicated PVP'rs in our Fleet. They are the warrior elite. It may be that they can do that kind of damage, or more, but I haven't had the opportunity to spar with them for awhile. They are better at it than me, but they still find me challenging at times. I would not call myself 'elite' but merely 'skilled'. I would not call any of my people abysmal. Nobody but our Elite can probably do 50k based on sparring matches.
We are a small Fleet, so we are not all on at the same time very often. Usually we have to fly alone. As a team when we are all online at the same time, we are good together, and we win. It isn't instantaneous. We teach the low tier ships how to contribute in PVP, by training, and coaching them in slower paced missions. The dedicated PVP'rs when on board do a lot of the killing, but they get a lot of help. Nobody is 'dead weight' and as a team, we do try to make sure everyone gets in on any big kills. It is a kind of etiquette. We pass on a lot of loot so that nobody gets it all. It is a different play style than some, I suppose.
In any case, a standard of 50k may as well make you a 'wizard'. I confess that I do not know where in STO that term was first applied, or if there are any rules in who it should be applied to. All I know is that it is well above any common damage outputs I have seen, and is more like what I see when sparring with our elite. I also know that nobody is going to do 50k with a T2 ship, ever, unless Cryptic can make money off of it someday. I know that those ships are flown by all kinds of players. Call them elite, or skilled, or average, or abysmal, but whatever you call them, realize that the game design does not allow any of them to exceed a certain amount of DPS, or impulse speed, or shield strength no matter what the captain does, or what consoles they use, because it isn't a T6 ship. It's T2.
In a mission where everyone has mk 12+ gear, 7+ consoles, 7+ weapons, purple Doffs and fully trained Boffs in all positions, all on T6 ships, that is awesome fire power. However there is no proper way for a T2 ship with mk 4 gear, 4 consoles, no Doffs, and skills appropriate to a level 10 officer to measure up to that. Yet, and this has been my whole point on these kinds of discussions ... the game will put them together! THE GAME!
A player can be awesome but they use a toon to interact, and a toon is only as good as his level, and the level of his resources. When the game puts these disparate power levels into a team, then makes the team compete against itself by establishing minimum contributions, it puts the high DPS players in a position where they can't help, CAN'T HELP, but to TRIBBLE things up for the less powerful players present.
I seriously doubt they want to TRIBBLE up anyone, but the game is doing wrong by the DPS'rs as well. It makes them the bad guy! So people like tehbubbaloo, who I would normally love to have on a team, becomes a liability to me. He becomes MY dead weight! Because he is there kicking SO MUCH hinnie, I don't get to properly go about doing the mission I came to do. If he helps me to much, he kills it for me, and gets me penalized on top of it all. But tehbubbaloo is not the bad guy. The game that throws tehbubbaloo's toon into the same team mission with a level 5-10 toon is the real badguy!
Paxdawn has called low DPS'rs dead weight, and abysmal players, but lets examine that. If the DPS is so high that victory is assured, the low DPS ship wasn't needed, but if they have an ability that boosts the team even a little, they are not dead weight, but actually helpful. Not to mention that high DPS'rs that can't find a fifth player to que with aren't earning anything anyway so why not take the fifth player regardless? As for abysmal, some players are! No doubt about it! But even an abysmal player can soak a plasma torpedo, and respawn, and it is a community game, so when I play high level toons, I just play for the team, and don't care if there are nuggets in the squadron. They have a right to be here also.
All I want is for the DEVS to fix it so that low level toons can avoid the trap of being qued with level 60/T6 who have the instakill abilities. It matters to me especially as a Fleet leader bringing new people to the game. My pet peeve remains the game element that makes the AFKs happen when players were actually playing to win. It isn't a players fault who ends up on his que. I have nothing against high DPS'rs. I only wish they didn't end up in the same games with my low level toons
Live long and prosper. Qapla!
Like I ask again, where is your proof? How many times do I have to ask you to post proof or parses. Post your parses not wild claims. All the information I stated are publicly available. But like all things requires at least an effort from to you actually research it.
Remember, playing X number of years doesnt equate a player being capable especially if that player Playing X number of years is exposed with the incorrect information for the X number of years.
Now with regards to players with experience getting AFK, this was discussed many times in this forums. We can classify these "veterans" who get AFK as two things:
1) They are purposely getting AFK. They are leeches who want to remove the AFk penatly in order for their leeching ways to be unpenalized.
2) Dunning-Kruger effect - Players who think that are capable but are not really capable; This video explains it more bluntly :
Comments
I've only done crystalline this past week but I've done it around 20 times. Only saw a NON Kemocite group once this morning.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Quality Profit assurance.
Good thing I have other things to do.
If anyone wants to drop into an STF and blow everything away with these weapons when I'm there simply for the Omega Marks for an Alt, feel free to do so.
Quicker STF is a Happier STF.
Problem is these people are likely to stick you with an AFK penalty.
If not for the fact that I suspect Cryptic would implement it punitively, part of me almost wants the extreme DPSers locked out of public queues (except for elites...not advanced...elite) so that they do not cause such problems for the average player.
But because I am pretty sure based on their past record that a gear score would in fact end up hurting normal players and not serving its intended purpose, I would not *seriously* make that recommendation.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I want to get the mission rewards, not flagged as AFK because I didn't have a freaking planet killer to do DPS with. The DPS difference in missions that mix level 5 with level 60, then penalize the little ship/toon are my new official pet peeve. I don't usually know who else is in the que. I don't know if I am teaming with someone who will make my contribution look like nothing to the AFK penalty bots. SO yeah IT CAN BE LESS FUN!
Anyway. Not getting mission rewards because the game doesn't see me makes me mad. It doesn't see me because my toon in this example is small already, and there is no way to dodge ending up accidentally surrounded by DPS gods! No offense to DPS gods, we have them in our Fleet and appreciate them, but a new toon can't team with them in a fleet action, and a new toon doesn't always have a bunch of other new toons to team with to go in as a unit. Especially since my friends with low level toons are already bailing on STO regularly for the above discussed reasons.
I don't want to take things away, but I am very much with people who are frustrated when we take a legit toon, and get punished for taking a mission with them. Jeeze I thought I was done being angry with this. Sorry.
Your fine, but some things aren't, and I wish they would fix stuff.
Live long and Prosper.
Generally speaking, Someone getting AFK means some player is doing 2Kish DPS or less in ISA or CCA which I dont consider as an average player. The problem aint the average player and DPS Wizard in the same STF since I believe an average player should be able to do at least 9k+ DPS in the current power creep. It is the Abysmal DPS player vs DPS Wizard that can create AFK Penatly since you need 1% of total team damage.
We can actually check, 188k DPS of the top CCA player in SCM table. Those who got AFK are doing roughly around 2Kish DPS or below. While those doing 3K+ didnt get AFK Penalty. Those 2Kish players or below dont even qualify for minimum mission requirements for Advance STFs. Thus, dont even belong in Advance or not contributing to an Advance team and belongs at normal because they are dead weights. Lucky for that team they had that 188k DPSer to carry those dead weight players. Otherwise frustration for the rest of the team,
So let me get this straight:
Someone that goes in and outperforms you, just sulk there?
Let me say this also: Let's say KLW gets nerfed. I know for a fact there will still be plenty of guys that will far outperform you with or without it. I know for a fact that they will still smash NPCs. You going to sulk there still?
The simple fact is this. The PVE of this game is a joke. Always has been. Always will be. The NPCs are stupid and Cryptic has introduced season after season after season of Power Creep. Take KLW away and I promise you, there will be plenty of guys smoke checking your performance making the PVE of this game a joke still. It was a joke even before KLW.
Look, I created a new toon. I got them to level 5. The PVE mission for Starbase 24 comes up then. I waited till I had level 10, and T2 gear, including the ship, then went to do Fleet alert. I ran the mission, and use Cruiser commands to assist my team. I fired my torps at downed shields, drained some shields, and kept pew'pew'ing with my two phaser arrays. I never stopped, and I saw my hits in the chat after action. I was still AFK'd by the ref bot. It was not an advanced difficulty. I was surrounded by DPS 'wizards'.
Where I get angry is that is is a colossal waste of my time to accept a mission the game clearly thinks I should be accepting (offered pretty much automatically when you hit the minimum level). Cause when I accept it, and go to do it for Skill points, Marks and stuff, (aargh!) it doesn't SEE me! As far as the 'average player' arguement goes, I am not an average player. This ain't my first rodeo. I am leveling toon 25 out of 50 right now. (yes, I have 50, most are waiting for me to level them) Not being new to this, I expected to be useful, as I had been useful in the past with a T1 Miranda.
Not so! Even though I bought 1000 zen worth of gear to support my toon, and had gear for Lt Cmdr. I suppose I was running a roughly avarage level 10 toon in any case. Got the AFK tag, didn't get the reward. I did get some loot, but I wanted the mission rewards not the loot. Also, I was penalized for two hours. I don't blame the DPS 'wizards', but I do blame Cryptic for not doing more to recognize the beast they have built. The levels allowed are 5 to 60. There is no screening process. Level 5 in a game with level 60, has a good chance of getting AFK'd! Not carried to victory, but AFK'd!
My toon was level 10, which was good enough for my first 23 characters to do the mission. My 24th hasn't tried it yet. Number 25 was AFK'd. If they need to fix it by creating a different mission for low levels I don't care, but raising the level cap was good, but had consequences that are felt by those still well below it. Cryptic should fix it.
Thanks
How do you know they were wizards? Did you parse it? If so can please share the parse?
Otherwise how to know if these are Wizards vs you or Average players vs you?
If you didnt parse, How to know you are actually contributing to the mission or the team or you are just dead weight?
remember, buying stuff doesnt equate you contributing to team. Besides, a player getting AFK means the player doesnt belong in Advance nor Elite missions. And I already stated proof why a player getting AFK are dead weights in Advance/Elite STFs in my post above which replied to.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This is not meant as a slight against people upping their DPS as far as they can, but:
I am in this game to play this game. When I enter an STF I want to play that STF. Sure, sometimes the reward is the main idea, but just getting it is not what I am here for. So yes, I'd rather be losing an STF than getting an insta-reward.
That being said, I don't blame the 100k crowd for this. It is either my fault for not keeping up (though all my toons, except one but I'll change that, do reasonably well to regularily earn their first places in CCA) or the game design's fault for letting the power gap grow too far. Still a queue where somebody kills everything before I can make a decent contribution is a waste of time for me and not enjoyable.
Cryptic knows it's bugged. It will get fixed. When it's fixed, it will go back to being like it was before: A nice power to have but not huge bump in DPS.
Kemo isnt a determing factor why Mobs getting nuked.
Even if we hypothetical nerf Kemo to the ground, those players nuking mobs will still be nuking mobs.
It is player skill disparity. The self entitled players got what they wanted by nerfing advance to normal+ many months ago.
Now they are complaining the realities of playing at Advance or Elite STFs wherein an abysmal skilled player mixes with average player. I dont even think those complaining about mobs getting killed before they get there were teamed with DPS wizards but rather average players and an abysmal player.
There is a very small chance to actually team up with DPS wizards in a PuG due to the small population who can actually do 100k DPS in a PuG since 100k in a dps channel run is very different from a PuG run. Also teaming up with 100k DPSer isnt an assured AFK. A player must do below the STF minimum requirements just to get AFK.
I've never noticed it either. I use it on 2 of my characters and it makes my torp boat worthwhile. I also don't know why people are complaining because the faster an STF is complete means the sooner I can move to another one.
First off, buying stuff is how to get good gear when you are aiming for the best outcome. It comes under the concept of careful preparation, and it gave me an edge that F2P players of the 'average sort' would not have had. Better gear equals better potential, which in experienced hands means more effectiveness, and that means a larger contribution, so yes, buying stuff does equal contributing in this case because I put it all to use.
As I stated, it was an everyday ordinary Starbase defense that has level requirements starting at level FIVE, via the Fleet Alert mission It was not Advanced or Elite, but NORMAL, as I previously had stated. I also looked in the chat menu post battle and looked at the damages being done to and by others besides me. I was shooting pretty much the whole time I had any target, and was always moving to a new target when one was destroyed. Additionally I was boosting my team with my Cruiser commands the whole time, so they were getting help from me always. For every 150 to 200 pts I did, I saw multiple thousands of points over and over again delivered by individuals making up our team. Then my phaser, and my other phaser, then ten thousand points or some such in a few hits, over and over again, then my phaser, and my other phaser, and my torpedo in that arc. If they weren't 'wizards' the word has no useful meaning.
By the definition for "dead weight" that you seem to be trying to use, every player who gets the mission is dead weight if they are not very considerably higher than level 5, or even level 10, where my toon was at. Further, your definition of dead weight precludes the consideration that the designers very definitly intend for toons of level 5+ to be able to do these missions, and that the designers do not worry about seperating people by level when they might be 55 levels apart.
Additionally, your definition of 'dead weight' seems to ignore the very real limitations of ship choices at level 10, or the lack of duty officers, or the lack of skillpoints. Before you say 'dead weight' again, I remind you my toon was at TWICE the minimum level for joining that que, I had gear at my max level, and I had all consoles and batteries, and Bridge officers assigned and their abilities slotted. If I am dead weight in that mission it is a game design flaw, since I had everything I could have had, ready to go, and slotted correctly, and was twice the level required to participate.
There are no guarantees in life, but I had every logical reason to believe that at twice the required level, with the best gear I could get for my level, and with all my Boffs correctly slotted, and with persistant effort on my own part, that I should have shared in the victory rewards for that mission. The only evidence I have as to why this DID NOT happen, is the unbelievable damages being issued by the other players. I followed the rules, and made my best effort. This would have happened to anyone reading this if they had been in my place, and used a level 10 toon, and a T2 ship, even with very rare consoles and weapons. Any player could have at least fired the phasers! I boosted their shields. When it was smart, I switched over to boosting other things. One thing I should never have done, in hindsight was to boost their weapons.
Anyway, I figure I had a build in the top 5% of what I could do with that toon. If that isn't good enough, then it's definitely broken for the 'avaerage player' and it is extra broken for the low level newcomer to STO. They don't even have experience to help guide their build. When I came on, there were no level 60 toons to compete with, so it was level 5 to 50 for the Fleet Alert mission. I never had this happen, and my builds weren't as good back then. I was a noob.
So I ask any of you folks out there, if the mission says level 5 - 60, and it is a normal difficulty, and you do * everything right * and your team wins, where is it proper to give someone an AFK penalty. Where is it just? If I were a total noob, where would it be right to say that what I did qualified me as dead weight? If there is no flaw, why is the game punishing a character, and by extension, me, for accepting missions when they are offered, and with gear at the top of their character level?
If there is no problem, why am I NOT the only one who has seen this issue, and tried to bring attention to it? If my level 10 toon and my best gear is dead weight for a level 5 mission, how long should I or any other low level toon player wait to try the level 5 mission, so that we aren't dead weight when we do it? Level 30? Level 40? Should I just skip normal level 5 PVE misions till I am level 60? Well then, why not just make it a level 60 mission to begin with, and don't TRIBBLE with our heads?!
SO yes, after reviewing the chat bar, I could see that I was so overshadowed that that had to be the reason. The evidence is clear to me, the game is becoming broken in the qued PVE area. Huge DPS is almost certainly what is breaking it. I don't care how they fix it so level 5's aren't in with level 60's but that would be a great start.
Let me put this one last way. You and four millionaires see a donation jar for a cancer patient needing help. All of you are moved. You along with the other four decide to put in to help. You have $1000 in the bank, so you get it, and put it in. The millionaires put in a few hundred million. Wow! The patient is saved. But then the plolice come to your door, and arrest you for not putting in enough money, and tell you you can't donate any more to charity till your out of jail. THAT is what the AFK situation is like! It's better if I don't help, or try to do anything, because I can't actually DO much, and will get punished for doing even that.
Don't miss my point here. This is wrong, and trying to justify it by telling people they should somehow magically do more damage than the game will allow them with the best gear at their current level, doesn't fix anything. Players with ability, and good intentions will continue to join these ques, and they will get AFK'd till they stop joining these ques. Then the guys who thought there was no problem can play by themselves I guess. The game as a whole, will suffer though, and nobody here should laugh that off.
No hard feelings
Yes! A waste of time, and not enjoyable. you also hit it on the head as far as I am concerned with your suggestion that problem could be (is imho) the power gap being to large. I am fine with power gaps as long as they don't make it pointless for me to participate. If you have seen me ranting already, you know what I'm on about. It isn't your fault for not keeping up if the game clearly invites you to participate at a low level, and you put in your best gear. It would be your fault if you took a Miranda with Mark 2 white gear into a level 60 only team PVE. OHH GAHWD it would be your fault. But if you are clearly following the path the game lays out for you, then it is the games fault for not having proper balance.
Thank you very much
Can someone explain?
The only abysmally skilled players are going to be complete noobs, or have a mental deficiency. Anyone who has been playing a few years and testing builds and tactics in PVP, at all, is not going to be in that catagory. Most noobs even are at least able to understand that a weapon or shield boosting console is good. Most folks know that your Boffs have nice abilities, and know what those abilities are suppossed to do, and that the career of a Boff predisposes your tactical options. I figure most people have got training their Boffs down just fine as well. Still the 'average' player does not exist except as an idea, and everyone has a diferent idea.
Different players have different goals, and some are more excited about PVP/PVE and pure combat builds. There is probably something like an 'avarage' PVP'r but they would not be average in any sense of the broader game. People who play the broader game are not combat illiterate nincompoops, because they do have to be good enough at ship combat to play the story PVE, and patrol PVE. These are what I would call 'average' players if I was asked. I would not call them 'abysmal'. I would say that they might seem abysmal to a dedicated PVP warrior, but since the 'average' put thier energy into more aspects of the game, I would say they are more at the heart of what keeps all of this going.
Not knowing except from recent posts, and I could be wrong, but to me some of you come across as casually dismissive of a lot of your fellow players. Sorry, not trying to be rude. I feel like you are missing the point of what some of us are trying to say about the game, and DPS. You know what it takes to generate even 50k DPS right?
My understanding of the 'average' player from my Fleet experience is that they roughly have 800-1600 dps available (4-8 weapons on a target at say 200 dps each) before boosting with abilities and consoles. Your doing about 40 times that much damage with 50k. That means you have to boost your weapons by maybe 4000%. We have some dedicated PVP'rs in our Fleet. They are the warrior elite. It may be that they can do that kind of damage, or more, but I haven't had the opportunity to spar with them for awhile. They are better at it than me, but they still find me challenging at times. I would not call myself 'elite' but merely 'skilled'. I would not call any of my people abysmal. Nobody but our Elite can probably do 50k based on sparring matches.
We are a small Fleet, so we are not all on at the same time very often. Usually we have to fly alone. As a team when we are all online at the same time, we are good together, and we win. It isn't instantaneous. We teach the low tier ships how to contribute in PVP, by training, and coaching them in slower paced missions. The dedicated PVP'rs when on board do a lot of the killing, but they get a lot of help. Nobody is 'dead weight' and as a team, we do try to make sure everyone gets in on any big kills. It is a kind of etiquette. We pass on a lot of loot so that nobody gets it all. It is a different play style than some, I suppose.
In any case, a standard of 50k may as well make you a 'wizard'. I confess that I do not know where in STO that term was first applied, or if there are any rules in who it should be applied to. All I know is that it is well above any common damage outputs I have seen, and is more like what I see when sparring with our elite. I also know that nobody is going to do 50k with a T2 ship, ever, unless Cryptic can make money off of it someday. I know that those ships are flown by all kinds of players. Call them elite, or skilled, or average, or abysmal, but whatever you call them, realize that the game design does not allow any of them to exceed a certain amount of DPS, or impulse speed, or shield strength no matter what the captain does, or what consoles they use, because it isn't a T6 ship. It's T2.
In a mission where everyone has mk 12+ gear, 7+ consoles, 7+ weapons, purple Doffs and fully trained Boffs in all positions, all on T6 ships, that is awesome fire power. However there is no proper way for a T2 ship with mk 4 gear, 4 consoles, no Doffs, and skills appropriate to a level 10 officer to measure up to that. Yet, and this has been my whole point on these kinds of discussions ... the game will put them together! THE GAME!
A player can be awesome but they use a toon to interact, and a toon is only as good as his level, and the level of his resources. When the game puts these disparate power levels into a team, then makes the team compete against itself by establishing minimum contributions, it puts the high DPS players in a position where they can't help, CAN'T HELP, but to TRIBBLE things up for the less powerful players present.
I seriously doubt they want to TRIBBLE up anyone, but the game is doing wrong by the DPS'rs as well. It makes them the bad guy! So people like tehbubbaloo, who I would normally love to have on a team, becomes a liability to me. He becomes MY dead weight! Because he is there kicking SO MUCH hinnie, I don't get to properly go about doing the mission I came to do. If he helps me to much, he kills it for me, and gets me penalized on top of it all. But tehbubbaloo is not the bad guy. The game that throws tehbubbaloo's toon into the same team mission with a level 5-10 toon is the real badguy!
Paxdawn has called low DPS'rs dead weight, and abysmal players, but lets examine that. If the DPS is so high that victory is assured, the low DPS ship wasn't needed, but if they have an ability that boosts the team even a little, they are not dead weight, but actually helpful. Not to mention that high DPS'rs that can't find a fifth player to que with aren't earning anything anyway so why not take the fifth player regardless? As for abysmal, some players are! No doubt about it! But even an abysmal player can soak a plasma torpedo, and respawn, and it is a community game, so when I play high level toons, I just play for the team, and don't care if there are nuggets in the squadron. They have a right to be here also.
All I want is for the DEVS to fix it so that low level toons can avoid the trap of being qued with level 60/T6 who have the instakill abilities. It matters to me especially as a Fleet leader bringing new people to the game. My pet peeve remains the game element that makes the AFKs happen when players were actually playing to win. It isn't a players fault who ends up on his que. I have nothing against high DPS'rs. I only wish they didn't end up in the same games with my low level toons
Live long and prosper. Qapla!
1: Actually fix it so that it works as it should - This is time consuming and actually costs money and it may hurt their bottom line. Imagine how many keys that they sell for the purposes of winning kemocite and/or selling said keys to buy kemocite.
2: Pull a "Plasma Embassy Consoles" style "fix" in which kemocite is further broken in a purposeful manner meaning much much less damage - This is risky since they will risk losing sales from keys and of course there will be the player's wrath.
3: Drop Dilithium Rewards For Queues - This doesn't affect their key sales, and people won't complain about the nerfing of their newest precious broken ability. People will have to actually PLAY MORE to earn the rewards that they are used to which has a chance of leading to higher sales! BRILLIANT!!!
10k for you, 40k - 100k for some others it would seem!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Only because they are exploiting the multi-stacking bug.
Seriously.. the only reason we are seeing such inflated numbers from Kemo is because of the bug. Fix the multi-proc and multi-stack proc and you'll find that it isn't that powerful an ability at all.
Yeah I feel for you. A T2 ship was never intended to go toe-to-toe with a T6 (much less a fully geared T6) ship. The fact that there are queues with such a wide range of levels allowed (5-60) isn't good design IMO. It's not your fault for being T2, neither were your team overpowered (or even "wizards as you put it). It's the game's fault for allowing you and them to share the same queues with the potential for an AFK penalty.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Like I ask again, where is your proof? How many times do I have to ask you to post proof or parses. Post your parses not wild claims. All the information I stated are publicly available. But like all things requires at least an effort from to you actually research it.
Remember, playing X number of years doesnt equate a player being capable especially if that player Playing X number of years is exposed with the incorrect information for the X number of years.
Now with regards to players with experience getting AFK, this was discussed many times in this forums. We can classify these "veterans" who get AFK as two things:
1) They are purposely getting AFK. They are leeches who want to remove the AFk penatly in order for their leeching ways to be unpenalized.
2) Dunning-Kruger effect - Players who think that are capable but are not really capable; This video explains it more bluntly :