Can't say I'm impressed. The last thing I'd be interested in is yet another doff system. I don't much care for the current doff system. It's boring, pointless busy work that offers nothing to the dwindling fun-factor of the game.
Can't say I'm all that excited for another DOFF system. It really does nothing for me TBH. Would like to have seen our old ships become more useful to gameplay, like being able to call them for reinforcements, showing up from time to time in sector space to provide random missions, or help us out on special content and such.
I'm happy for those that are looking forward to this though.
I agree with you. There were talks just after the launch of DOff system of admiralty ship being something like "BOffs in space". That would have been awesome. Specially if we could pick one or two of our BOffs, promote them to captain
and put them in charge of one of the ships we already own and use these ships in space combat.
Now, this system is okay. I will play and probably enjoy it. But I hope devs do not dismiss the idea above. I do not see conflict in the admiralty system, as it is being implemented, and a "personal fleet system" as I described above.
Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Can't say I'm all that excited for another DOFF system. It really does nothing for me TBH. Would like to have seen our old ships become more useful to gameplay, like being able to call them for reinforcements, showing up from time to time in sector space to provide random missions, or help us out on special content and such.
I'm happy for those that are looking forward to this though.
I agree with you. There were talks just after the launch of DOff system of admiralty ship being something like "BOffs in space". That would have been awesome. Specially if we could pick one or two of our BOffs, promote them to captain
and put them in charge of one of the ships we already own and use these ships in space combat.
Now, this system is okay. I will play and probably enjoy it. But I hope devs do not dismiss the idea above. I do not see conflict in the admiralty system, as it is being implemented, and a "personal fleet system" as I described above.
A nice way to get people to buy old has been ships from de C STORE.
You are getting smarter than anyone gives ya credit for. And I like smart people.
BUT as always... unless you bring me an ASSAULT CRUISER T6 that is fun to play and at least better than the command cruisers... I won't budge and I won't go lifetimer or buy anything from the CSOTRE. :P
Will there be assignments that require certain a certain class of ship?
Specific Classes of ships will never be an assignment requirement. All you have to do for success is meet the given score requirements. How you do that, is up to you.
Does the game remember ships that I dismissed years ago, levelling up?
Also: "establish trade blockade on un-allied planet"?
The Federation is taking notes from another Federation in a galaxy far, far away.
I saw that and was disturbed by it, as the language, the use of blockade in particular, is especially strong and heavy handed without establishing that a state of war existed.
I could see a Federation blockade during hostilities. Otherwise an embargo would be established to say, uphold the Prime Directive, or prevent a genocide if one occurring, had been established, and a decision to act had been made, but not much else I can think of right now.
Alternative language to use:
Establish a wartime trade blockade.
Establish trade protocols to uphold the Prime Directive.
Establish a no-trade policy to prevent genocide on non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) against an aggressive non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) as part of the military initiative.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo to prevent genocide.
Poor Fed players who never got to visit the T'Ong Nebula and see their own people involved in aggressively infringing on Klingon territory, attacking Klingon and KDF-allied Romulan vessels without provocation, and even extorting tribute from native peoples in exchange for "protection."
I don't know if you picked up on the clue but those were Terrans posing as Feds. The clue was that the DOffs from those assignment chains in those clusters were Terran DOffs.
The NPCs we encountered were in Prime Universe Starfleet uniforms, and flying Prime Universe Starfleet vessels. The "clue" to which you refer is subject to interpretation, and there is nothing, afaik, to suggest that the encounters we had inside the T'Ong Nebula (and, to a lesser extent, in the D'Kel Star Cluster, and even occasionally in the Azlesa Expanse and the Eridan Nebula) were with Terran Empire forces.
Sorry, are you seriously using the old star cluster missions as proof of anything?
The same star cluster missions that gave us such gems as the "Borg 3rd Dynasty"?
I am going to have to read the detailed description of the blockade mission before I say whether I approve of it or not. Judging from the other example, there may be more once you click on it that explains what the purpose and circumstances of the blockade are. Once I see that, then I will decide.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You assume I am arguing the Feds are whiter than white. I am not. Divide et Impera and all. Please don't put words into my mouth.
No, the post to which you replied was a reply to someone else (gerwalk0769). Your reply to me was a Tu Quoque. Perhaps you should re-read what they said and see what it was to which I replied.
Sigh... Your attempt to invoke a logical fallacy is incorrect as you have misinterpreted my argument.
A Tu Quoque would apply if I were arguing for or trying to imply the Feds were morally superior and was attempting to disguise the fact that they aren't by crying hypocrisy. But I haven't said this or argued for it at all.
To give a practical example of this distinction: its perfectly legitimate to criticise someone like say Josh Duggar for being a hypocrite that doesn't meet the conservative political/moral standards which he preaches. This is not a Tu Quoque in itself. If however I were to use that to discredit his political arguments/causes rather than deal with them on their merits - then yes, that would qualify as a Tu Quoque.
As I stated however - I have not claimed the Feds are perfect or better. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy entailed in raising such issues (which is a legitimate criticism). Again: please don't put words in my mouth so you can claim fallacies where none exist.
I followed your advice and looked back at your post. I think the evidence that your reply to gerwalk0769 is based upon is flawed. Here's why:
1) Your post (which didn't give specific details/evidence) was claiming the Feds were 'infringing' upon KDF space. My response argued that this was a flawed interpretation, as the Feds either had legitimate access via the Diplomatic system, or were there under the Peace agreement reached in Surface Tension (which evidently granted reciprocal rights to the KDF to do the same in Sirius). Given their legitimate right to be there, it is difficult to argue that this constitutes infringement as your original post claims.
2) From what it sounds like, you appear to be referring to the (randomly generated) 'Genesis system' exploration missions for the Omega Leonis Clusters. However, in Omega Leonis, these were not Fed missions, but KDF missions that the Feds were able to access due to a glitch/oversight. I have all these accolades and can distinctly remember that the missions in Omega Leonis for Feds were very different to that of other clusters - including hunting down tribble infestations and so on. They were the same as the KDF versions.
Further supporting this is the name of the accolades. For all other exploration clusters they are all titled: Nomad, Wander, Explorer. For Omega Leonis clusters (explicitly referred to as Klingon Accolades on the Wiki) they are all titled: Scout, Subduer, Conqueror.
You are therefore basing your argument upon KDF content and gameplay that some Feds were able to access, not upon actual Fed content... I mean I have actually been able to access some Fed Episodes and content with my KDF player sometimes: does me playing them thanks to a glitch/oversight mean that they are somehow now part of the KDF storyline? I don't believe it does in this, or in the case of Omega Leonis clusters.
3) Those exploration cluster missions were randomly generated, and have since been removed from the game. It is therefore arguable that under the current storyline they never actually happened at all...
And just a reminder: I'm not claiming Feds have moral high ground - just suggesting that the evidence you have cited to support your argument is of dubious merit.
Will there be assignments that require certain a certain class of ship?
Specific Classes of ships will never be an assignment requirement. All you have to do for success is meet the given score requirements. How you do that, is up to you.
Does the game remember ships that I dismissed years ago, levelling up?
Also: "establish trade blockade on un-allied planet"?
The Federation is taking notes from another Federation in a galaxy far, far away.
I saw that and was disturbed by it, as the language, the use of blockade in particular, is especially strong and heavy handed without establishing that a state of war existed.
I could see a Federation blockade during hostilities. Otherwise an embargo would be established to say, uphold the Prime Directive, or prevent a genocide if one occurring, had been established, and a decision to act had been made, but not much else I can think of right now.
Alternative language to use:
Establish a wartime trade blockade.
Establish trade protocols to uphold the Prime Directive.
Establish a no-trade policy to prevent genocide on non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) against an aggressive non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) as part of the military initiative.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo to prevent genocide.
Poor Fed players who never got to visit the T'Ong Nebula and see their own people involved in aggressively infringing on Klingon territory, attacking Klingon and KDF-allied Romulan vessels without provocation, and even extorting tribute from native peoples in exchange for "protection."
I don't know if you picked up on the clue but those were Terrans posing as Feds. The clue was that the DOffs from those assignment chains in those clusters were Terran DOffs.
The NPCs we encountered were in Prime Universe Starfleet uniforms, and flying Prime Universe Starfleet vessels. The "clue" to which you refer is subject to interpretation, and there is nothing, afaik, to suggest that the encounters we had inside the T'Ong Nebula (and, to a lesser extent, in the D'Kel Star Cluster, and even occasionally in the Azlesa Expanse and the Eridan Nebula) were with Terran Empire forces.
Sorry, are you seriously using the old star cluster missions as proof of anything?
The same star cluster missions that gave us such gems as the "Borg 3rd Dynasty"?
Yes, I am. One of our people who had played Fed exclusively until he made a KDF-allied Rom-Alien finally got a grasp on why the KDF hates the Federation so much after playing those missions. No matter how you spin it or attempt to excuse it, in the T'Ong especially, the Feds were blatantly imperialistic thugs who gave the Klingons a run for their money in ethically reprehensible behavior.
And, fwiw, I miss the Borg Third Dynasty stuff. :P
iirc, Crit normally goes above success, and is purple rather then yellow?
It is different in this system specifically because it behaves differently.
In other systems, the chance for Crit detracts from chance of Success. That is not the case here - Crit is above-and-beyond Success, rather than being "instead of."
This is excellent news Bort! Depending on how it works out, I'm kind of hoping we can see this rolled to Doffing too.
Are T5 and T5U considered to be the same admirality ship? What about Bundle ships (like, Eng Vesta and Tac Vesta)?
T5 and T5U are technically the same Class, so you don't get an additional A-Ship by upgrading.
Bundle ships are each separate however, and each ship within a bundle will typically reward its own A-Ship.
Well played. Despite the inevitable complaints about the old "T6 capabilities" statement, that will prevent us from getting 2-for-1 on all Upgradable ships (including the Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion ones that would also benefit from Rarity and Upgrade for free), keeping things reasonable.
To confirm, though: "Tier corresponds to the level at which the Starship becomes available for use." does not indicate that T5/Level 40 Reqired ships will occupy a different Tier than T5/Level 50 Required ships; it just refers to Tier in the same manner as it always has, though disregarding T5-U entirely?
Also, are "Blue Box" ships considered higher Rarity because they come from a Lock Box, and are non-Upgradable Mirror Ships lower Rarity than the newer Upgradable "Blue Box" ships such as the Kazon Raider?
KDF and ROM are clearly at a disadvantage when it comes to the number of T6 ships, when compared to the FEDs. This is especially the case when it comes to Science ships. Can we hope this will be addressed in the future so that the factions will have similar chances at different assignments?
Due to the small number of Assignment slots you can have - 8 max - and the fact that every Assignment only takes 3 ships max, the highest number of ships you can ever need is 24. Even when taking Maintenance into account, the overall number of ships required to participate in this system remains fairly low. We honestly designed it to be engaging even for players with as few as ~12 ships in their roster.
So, even though this disparity in number of ships options exists, in the end it won't result in an imbalance of opportunity.
Putting aside the fact that the system takes Tier into account, and that the Klingon and Romulan factions lack any T6 Science Ships (and have a limited supply of T5 Science Ships available) means that they will have lower overall rewards on Science Assignments as a result...
Has the Klingon Campaign (along with any possible Romulan Campaign) been specifically designed to prevent consecutive Science Assignments from occurring, in order to avoid the requirement of additional Science Ships while our rather limited supply is on Maintenance?
Also related to faction equivalency: Will the eventual Romulan Campaign be available to Federation/Klingon captains in the same manner in which the Federation/Klingon Campaigns are available to Romulan captains based on their choice of ally, tied to those factions' support of Romulan Republic colonial and expansion efforts? I think that could be a neat in-game method of reinforcing the idea that the Federation and Klingon Empire are supposed to be helping the Romulan Republic in exchange for the assistance of its Flotilla.
How will the system is planned to be monetized, aside from the ships themselves?
That's actually it, for now. We don't have immediate plans for direct monetization (such as selling A-Ships separately, or anything), only indirect.
It's nice to see this system take a more subtle direction as far as monetization, as the Admiralty System itself is a nice advertisement for picking up C-Store ships to pad our Rosters and for Event/Lobi/Lock Box/Promotion ships for the Rarity bonuses. Placing too many monetization mechanics in all at once could have put off many players. Thanks for going this route instead.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The one other thing people will have to consider money-wise is that they either must maintain an empty ship slot at all times for whenever they might acquire a new ship--and that means adding a new "free slot" any time you add a lockbox ship since you can't get those back once dismissed! Now, since I am no longer paying for ships, that is less of a concern for me. But it is something to think about.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Will there be assignments that require certain a certain class of ship?
Specific Classes of ships will never be an assignment requirement. All you have to do for success is meet the given score requirements. How you do that, is up to you.
Does the game remember ships that I dismissed years ago, levelling up?
Also: "establish trade blockade on un-allied planet"?
The Federation is taking notes from another Federation in a galaxy far, far away.
I saw that and was disturbed by it, as the language, the use of blockade in particular, is especially strong and heavy handed without establishing that a state of war existed.
I could see a Federation blockade during hostilities. Otherwise an embargo would be established to say, uphold the Prime Directive, or prevent a genocide if one occurring, had been established, and a decision to act had been made, but not much else I can think of right now.
Alternative language to use:
Establish a wartime trade blockade.
Establish trade protocols to uphold the Prime Directive.
Establish a no-trade policy to prevent genocide on non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) against an aggressive non-member planet.
Enforce a no-trade policy (embargo) as part of the military initiative.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo.
Uphold diplomatic initiatives: Establish a trade embargo to prevent genocide.
Poor Fed players who never got to visit the T'Ong Nebula and see their own people involved in aggressively infringing on Klingon territory, attacking Klingon and KDF-allied Romulan vessels without provocation, and even extorting tribute from native peoples in exchange for "protection."
I don't know if you picked up on the clue but those were Terrans posing as Feds. The clue was that the DOffs from those assignment chains in those clusters were Terran DOffs.
The NPCs we encountered were in Prime Universe Starfleet uniforms, and flying Prime Universe Starfleet vessels. The "clue" to which you refer is subject to interpretation, and there is nothing, afaik, to suggest that the encounters we had inside the T'Ong Nebula (and, to a lesser extent, in the D'Kel Star Cluster, and even occasionally in the Azlesa Expanse and the Eridan Nebula) were with Terran Empire forces.
Sorry, are you seriously using the old star cluster missions as proof of anything?
The same star cluster missions that gave us such gems as the "Borg 3rd Dynasty"?
Yes, I am. One of our people who had played Fed exclusively until he made a KDF-allied Rom-Alien finally got a grasp on why the KDF hates the Federation so much after playing those missions. No matter how you spin it or attempt to excuse it, in the T'Ong especially, the Feds were blatantly imperialistic thugs who gave the Klingons a run for their money in ethically reprehensible behavior.
And, fwiw, I miss the Borg Third Dynasty stuff. :P
Yes but like the 3rd Dynasty, those were basically generic mission scripts and dialogues that picked the Federation out of a random pool of enemies which, again, hilariously included Borg pirates ("Arrr matey, resistance be futile!") so that isn't reflective of anything.
Now, you could use various elements from the TV shows going all the way back to TOS to prove the Federation isn't exactly a bunch of white hats all the time (stealing a cloaking device from the Romulans with a really bizarre crazy captain gambit wasn't exactly fair play after all).
this seems very similar to the duty officer system i would have much preferred a in game pet control system or a mini RTS or at least the option to fit out my own fleet for my own purpose. So far the admirality system is just meh.
I love how active on this Borticuscryptic has been on answering questions. I like almost everything about this system as its been explained so far, I was just hopeful there would be a way for lockbox ships to be an account wide unlock for the system.
Does it really matter what the flavor text says for a set of Doffing 2.0 missions that were likely created to be as generic as possible (or faction-agnostic) in order to get them released together and roughly around the same time? They've already done this with faction-agnostic missions for awhile now.
I'd say the real disappointment as far as the system goes is a lack of Romulan ones with the initial release, even if there's only say 1 or 2 full lines vs the 8+ full lines that the Feds and KDF will no doubt have.
While it's true that this is just a rip of the old Doffing system with more bells and whistles, which had pretty much identical ranks and only a name change between Diplomacy/Marauding, giving Romulans their own extra exclusive Rank wouldn't have hurt. Maybe base it around helping to strengthen the Republic as well as assisting other Romulan remnant colonies, so some of those generic Fed/KDF missions such as "Check Status of Isolated Colony" would instead be "Check Status of Distant Romulan Colony" and go towards maxing out this Romulan exclusive rank.
With that said, I don't mind being proven wrong that there are actual separate Admiralty Assignments and Ranks that aren't identical regardless of Faction (and I don't mean just a superficial name change or slight assignment change like the Diplomacy/Marauding Ranks).
Bort, maybe I'm not reading correctly, but I'd like to know...of these ships, which ones would get an Admiralty Ship if they were all in my Ship Roster? (I'm aware that "Fleet" and "Mirror" are considered separate classes so I won't put any of those here)
Heavy Cruiser (T3 free ship on leveling up to Commander; looks like a Constellation-class ship)
Constellation Heavy Cruiser Refit (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Advanced Heavy Cruiser (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Operations Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Science Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Zahl Heavy Cruiser (Lobi Ship, T6)
I think what's tripping me up is...they almost all say "Heavy Cruiser" (except for the T5 Excelsior). Also, you had posted something about bundle ships counting only once instead of once per ship in the bundle of that faction. A simple "yes" or "no" next to each ship, or an overall "yes" to it all, is fine. No explanation needed. Thanks!
Bort, maybe I'm not reading correctly, but I'd like to know...of these ships, which ones would get an Admiralty Ship if they were all in my Ship Roster? (I'm aware that "Fleet" and "Mirror" are considered separate classes so I won't put any of those here)
Heavy Cruiser (T3 free ship on leveling up to Commander; looks like a Constellation-class ship)
Constellation Heavy Cruiser Refit (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Advanced Heavy Cruiser (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Operations Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Science Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Zahl Heavy Cruiser (Lobi Ship, T6)
I think what's tripping me up is...they almost all say "Heavy Cruiser" (except for the T5 Excelsior). Also, you had posted something about bundle ships counting only once instead of once per ship in the bundle of that faction. A simple "yes" or "no" next to each ship, or an overall "yes" to it all, is fine. No explanation needed. Thanks!
I think I can answer that based on Bort's previous responses:
All of them. The ships you have listed may be able to share skins in various cases, but they are each individual ships. Put another way, different sources and Tiers of ships will unlock Admiralty Ships with different stats, but claiming and dismissing any given ship repeatedly will not grant duplicate Admiralty Ships to use within the Admiralty System.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Bort, maybe I'm not reading correctly, but I'd like to know...of these ships, which ones would get an Admiralty Ship if they were all in my Ship Roster?
Heavy Cruiser (T3 free ship on leveling up to Commander; looks like a Constellation-class ship)
Constellation Heavy Cruiser Refit (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Advanced Heavy Cruiser (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Operations Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Science Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Zahl Heavy Cruiser (Lobi Ship, T6)
Every one of these is a distinctly separate Class, and therefore a separate Admiralty Ship.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
You assume I am arguing the Feds are whiter than white. I am not. Divide et Impera and all. Please don't put words into my mouth.
No, the post to which you replied was a reply to someone else (gerwalk0769). Your reply to me was a Tu Quoque. Perhaps you should re-read what they said and see what it was to which I replied.
Sigh... Your attempt to invoke a logical fallacy is incorrect as you have misinterpreted my argument.
A Tu Quoque would apply if I were arguing for or trying to imply the Feds were morally superior and was attempting to disguise the fact that they aren't by crying hypocrisy. But I haven't said this or argued for it at all.
To give a practical example of this distinction: its perfectly legitimate to criticise someone like say Josh Duggar for being a hypocrite that doesn't meet the conservative political/moral standards which he preaches. This is not a Tu Quoque in itself. If however I were to use that to discredit his political arguments/causes rather than deal with them on their merits - then yes, that would qualify as a Tu Quoque.
No it wouldn't. That would be an ad Hominem. "Tu Quoque" is the fallacy sometimes given the English name "Two Wrongs Make a Right" fallacy. A Tu Quoque in the example you provided would be committed if someone then pointed at a figure from an opposing perspective and said "But look, he cheated on his wife with an intern in the Oval Office." That would be an attempt to divert attention away from Duggar and also to excuse him because someone on "the other" side (in quotation marks because it is a bifurcation fallacy to assume that there are only two sides, but very common in Western societies, and in fact a plague on Western societies) had also behaved in a manner which was inconsistent with values by which he claimed to live. It would be fallacy of Tu Quoque because 1. it attempts to change the subject, rather than addressing the criticisms, and 2. it attempts to excuse based on the behavior of someone else. What someone else did wasn't the matter under discussion; what Duggar did was, and regardless of what someone else did, Duggar is not excused from the charges against him.
As I stated however - I have not claimed the Feds are perfect or better. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy entailed in raising such issues (which is a legitimate criticism). Again: please don't put words in my mouth so you can claim fallacies where none exist.
There's no hypocrisy involved, when I didn't attempt to defend the Klingons' behavior, nor did I pretend that they were innocent of similar behavior. What I did was simply to point out that the Feds have not been so pure as was suggested by objecting to the idea that they would blockade a planet.
And don't presume to lecture me on what fallacies are and are not. I know my field very well.
I followed your advice and looked back at your post. I think the evidence that your reply to gerwalk0769 is based upon is flawed. Here's why:
1) Your post (which didn't give specific details/evidence) was claiming the Feds were 'infringing' upon KDF space. My response argued that this was a flawed interpretation, as the Feds either had legitimate access via the Diplomatic system, or were there under the Peace agreement reached in Surface Tension (which evidently granted reciprocal rights to the KDF to do the same in Sirius). Given their legitimate right to be there, it is difficult to argue that this constitutes infringement as your original post claims.
These things were happening in territory claimed by the Klingon Empire long before "Surface Tension" (and before any Fed player had earned access to Omega Leonis).
2) From what it sounds like, you appear to be referring to the (randomly generated) 'Genesis system' exploration missions for the Omega Leonis Clusters. However, in Omega Leonis, these were not Fed missions, but KDF missions that the Feds were able to access due to a glitch/oversight. I have all these accolades and can distinctly remember that the missions in Omega Leonis for Feds were very different to that of other clusters - including hunting down tribble infestations and so on. They were the same as the KDF versions.
Further supporting this is the name of the accolades. For all other exploration clusters they are all titled: Nomad, Wander, Explorer. For Omega Leonis clusters (explicitly referred to as Klingon Accolades on the Wiki) they are all titled: Scout, Subduer, Conqueror.
That is exactly what I am referring to, and what the KDF did in those missions (subdue, conquer -- although scouting is neutral) is irrelevant to the fact that the Fed NPCs in those missions were behaving in an ethically reprehensible manner, as well as the notion that Feds would not blockade a planet. There you go with the Tu Quoque again.
You are therefore basing your argument upon KDF content and gameplay that some Feds were able to access, not upon actual Fed content... I mean I have actually been able to access some Fed Episodes and content with my KDF player sometimes: does me playing them thanks to a glitch/oversight mean that they are somehow now part of the KDF storyline? I don't believe it does in this, or in the case of Omega Leonis clusters.
That's still irrelevant. Fed NPCs did those things in those missions. That is a fact. I am not attempting to justify what KDF players (or Fed players, for that matter) did in those missions; I am pointing the finger at Fed NPCs, and what KDF players did does not in any way excuse what Fed NPCs did, nor should it divert attention away from what those Fed NPCs did. Fed NPCs did engage in behavior in those missions which is consistent with blockading a planet.
3) Those exploration cluster missions were randomly generated, and have since been removed from the game. It is therefore arguable that under the current storyline they never actually happened at all...
Yet we still have the accolades earned from those missions. They happened.
And just a reminder: I'm not claiming Feds have moral high ground - just suggesting that the evidence you have cited to support your argument is of dubious merit.
No, it was game content, and is a part of STO experience for KDF and KDF-allied RRF players who were around at the time and took advantage of the opportunities. Fed NPCs did not behave in ethically praiseworthy ways. The Federation is by no means innocent or pure. There are plenty of Klingons who believe in Honor and would not have engaged in DOff assignments which they view as dishonorable, but those DOff assignments exist, nevertheless. Why should the Fed player get only DOff assignments which are honorable, when Fed NPCs have demonstrated dishonor? The point is that there are good and bad examples on all sides. The House of Duras, for example, was guilty of all sorts of dishonor. Garth was insane. Torg and the House of Torg are villains in the early KDF missions. T'Nae is a bigot. The Tal'Shiar are not good guys. Sela is a psychopath. We can go into real-world examples as well, but we've already done more than enough of that. So yes, it's entirely within the overall character of the Federation that some Fed players might do things that are not representative of what the Federation stands for.
So basically the list of admirality ships that you have available will also be a pokédex of sorts, allowing you to keep track of which flyable ships you have "caught". It sure would be nice if it could be tied into the Starship Requisitions Vendor, allowing you to reclaim those ships on that character (straight to your ship roster, no tradable boxes) - even if you had to pay an appropriate amount of dil...
Bort, maybe I'm not reading correctly, but I'd like to know...of these ships, which ones would get an Admiralty Ship if they were all in my Ship Roster?
Heavy Cruiser (T3 free ship on leveling up to Commander; looks like a Constellation-class ship)
Constellation Heavy Cruiser Refit (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Advanced Heavy Cruiser (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Operations Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Science Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Zahl Heavy Cruiser (Lobi Ship, T6)
Every one of these is a distinctly separate Class, and therefore a separate Admiralty Ship.
So really the only time we are not going to see a ship considered a separate class, is a T5U Variant of a T5 Ship.
Comments
Also, federation blockading a planet? wtf!
This is nothing but meaningless fluff.
bring back the real exploration
Don't like it, don't use it. Nothing says you have to.
I agree with you. There were talks just after the launch of DOff system of admiralty ship being something like "BOffs in space". That would have been awesome. Specially if we could pick one or two of our BOffs, promote them to captain
and put them in charge of one of the ships we already own and use these ships in space combat.
Now, this system is okay. I will play and probably enjoy it. But I hope devs do not dismiss the idea above. I do not see conflict in the admiralty system, as it is being implemented, and a "personal fleet system" as I described above.
Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
don't like my comment, don't comment it. nothing says you have to
I agree with Wilhelm.
Cryptic...
A nice way to get people to buy old has been ships from de C STORE.
You are getting smarter than anyone gives ya credit for. And I like smart people.
BUT as always... unless you bring me an ASSAULT CRUISER T6 that is fun to play and at least better than the command cruisers... I won't budge and I won't go lifetimer or buy anything from the CSOTRE. :P
Sorry, are you seriously using the old star cluster missions as proof of anything?
The same star cluster missions that gave us such gems as the "Borg 3rd Dynasty"?
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
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A Tu Quoque would apply if I were arguing for or trying to imply the Feds were morally superior and was attempting to disguise the fact that they aren't by crying hypocrisy. But I haven't said this or argued for it at all.
To give a practical example of this distinction: its perfectly legitimate to criticise someone like say Josh Duggar for being a hypocrite that doesn't meet the conservative political/moral standards which he preaches. This is not a Tu Quoque in itself. If however I were to use that to discredit his political arguments/causes rather than deal with them on their merits - then yes, that would qualify as a Tu Quoque.
As I stated however - I have not claimed the Feds are perfect or better. I am just pointing out the hypocrisy entailed in raising such issues (which is a legitimate criticism). Again: please don't put words in my mouth so you can claim fallacies where none exist.
I followed your advice and looked back at your post. I think the evidence that your reply to gerwalk0769 is based upon is flawed. Here's why:
1) Your post (which didn't give specific details/evidence) was claiming the Feds were 'infringing' upon KDF space. My response argued that this was a flawed interpretation, as the Feds either had legitimate access via the Diplomatic system, or were there under the Peace agreement reached in Surface Tension (which evidently granted reciprocal rights to the KDF to do the same in Sirius). Given their legitimate right to be there, it is difficult to argue that this constitutes infringement as your original post claims.
2) From what it sounds like, you appear to be referring to the (randomly generated) 'Genesis system' exploration missions for the Omega Leonis Clusters. However, in Omega Leonis, these were not Fed missions, but KDF missions that the Feds were able to access due to a glitch/oversight. I have all these accolades and can distinctly remember that the missions in Omega Leonis for Feds were very different to that of other clusters - including hunting down tribble infestations and so on. They were the same as the KDF versions.
Further supporting this is the name of the accolades. For all other exploration clusters they are all titled: Nomad, Wander, Explorer. For Omega Leonis clusters (explicitly referred to as Klingon Accolades on the Wiki) they are all titled: Scout, Subduer, Conqueror.
You are therefore basing your argument upon KDF content and gameplay that some Feds were able to access, not upon actual Fed content... I mean I have actually been able to access some Fed Episodes and content with my KDF player sometimes: does me playing them thanks to a glitch/oversight mean that they are somehow now part of the KDF storyline? I don't believe it does in this, or in the case of Omega Leonis clusters.
3) Those exploration cluster missions were randomly generated, and have since been removed from the game. It is therefore arguable that under the current storyline they never actually happened at all...
And just a reminder: I'm not claiming Feds have moral high ground - just suggesting that the evidence you have cited to support your argument is of dubious merit.
Yes, I am. One of our people who had played Fed exclusively until he made a KDF-allied Rom-Alien finally got a grasp on why the KDF hates the Federation so much after playing those missions. No matter how you spin it or attempt to excuse it, in the T'Ong especially, the Feds were blatantly imperialistic thugs who gave the Klingons a run for their money in ethically reprehensible behavior.
And, fwiw, I miss the Borg Third Dynasty stuff. :P
This is excellent news Bort! Depending on how it works out, I'm kind of hoping we can see this rolled to Doffing too.
Well played. Despite the inevitable complaints about the old "T6 capabilities" statement, that will prevent us from getting 2-for-1 on all Upgradable ships (including the Event/Lobi/Lockbox/Promotion ones that would also benefit from Rarity and Upgrade for free), keeping things reasonable.
To confirm, though: "Tier corresponds to the level at which the Starship becomes available for use." does not indicate that T5/Level 40 Reqired ships will occupy a different Tier than T5/Level 50 Required ships; it just refers to Tier in the same manner as it always has, though disregarding T5-U entirely?
Also, are "Blue Box" ships considered higher Rarity because they come from a Lock Box, and are non-Upgradable Mirror Ships lower Rarity than the newer Upgradable "Blue Box" ships such as the Kazon Raider?
Putting aside the fact that the system takes Tier into account, and that the Klingon and Romulan factions lack any T6 Science Ships (and have a limited supply of T5 Science Ships available) means that they will have lower overall rewards on Science Assignments as a result...
Has the Klingon Campaign (along with any possible Romulan Campaign) been specifically designed to prevent consecutive Science Assignments from occurring, in order to avoid the requirement of additional Science Ships while our rather limited supply is on Maintenance?
Also related to faction equivalency: Will the eventual Romulan Campaign be available to Federation/Klingon captains in the same manner in which the Federation/Klingon Campaigns are available to Romulan captains based on their choice of ally, tied to those factions' support of Romulan Republic colonial and expansion efforts? I think that could be a neat in-game method of reinforcing the idea that the Federation and Klingon Empire are supposed to be helping the Romulan Republic in exchange for the assistance of its Flotilla.
It's nice to see this system take a more subtle direction as far as monetization, as the Admiralty System itself is a nice advertisement for picking up C-Store ships to pad our Rosters and for Event/Lobi/Lock Box/Promotion ships for the Rarity bonuses. Placing too many monetization mechanics in all at once could have put off many players. Thanks for going this route instead.
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Yes but like the 3rd Dynasty, those were basically generic mission scripts and dialogues that picked the Federation out of a random pool of enemies which, again, hilariously included Borg pirates ("Arrr matey, resistance be futile!") so that isn't reflective of anything.
Now, you could use various elements from the TV shows going all the way back to TOS to prove the Federation isn't exactly a bunch of white hats all the time (stealing a cloaking device from the Romulans with a really bizarre crazy captain gambit wasn't exactly fair play after all).
I'd say the real disappointment as far as the system goes is a lack of Romulan ones with the initial release, even if there's only say 1 or 2 full lines vs the 8+ full lines that the Feds and KDF will no doubt have.
While it's true that this is just a rip of the old Doffing system with more bells and whistles, which had pretty much identical ranks and only a name change between Diplomacy/Marauding, giving Romulans their own extra exclusive Rank wouldn't have hurt. Maybe base it around helping to strengthen the Republic as well as assisting other Romulan remnant colonies, so some of those generic Fed/KDF missions such as "Check Status of Isolated Colony" would instead be "Check Status of Distant Romulan Colony" and go towards maxing out this Romulan exclusive rank.
With that said, I don't mind being proven wrong that there are actual separate Admiralty Assignments and Ranks that aren't identical regardless of Faction (and I don't mean just a superficial name change or slight assignment change like the Diplomacy/Marauding Ranks).
Heavy Cruiser (T3 free ship on leveling up to Commander; looks like a Constellation-class ship)
Constellation Heavy Cruiser Refit (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Advanced Heavy Cruiser (C-Store, T3)
Excelsior Cruiser Retrofit (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Operations Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Science Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Odyssey Tactical Cruiser (C-Store, T5)
Zahl Heavy Cruiser (Lobi Ship, T6)
I think what's tripping me up is...they almost all say "Heavy Cruiser" (except for the T5 Excelsior). Also, you had posted something about bundle ships counting only once instead of once per ship in the bundle of that faction. A simple "yes" or "no" next to each ship, or an overall "yes" to it all, is fine. No explanation needed. Thanks!
I think I can answer that based on Bort's previous responses:
All of them. The ships you have listed may be able to share skins in various cases, but they are each individual ships. Put another way, different sources and Tiers of ships will unlock Admiralty Ships with different stats, but claiming and dismissing any given ship repeatedly will not grant duplicate Admiralty Ships to use within the Admiralty System.
[EDIT] Hi-yah! Ninja Accolade complete!
Every one of these is a distinctly separate Class, and therefore a separate Admiralty Ship.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
No it wouldn't. That would be an ad Hominem. "Tu Quoque" is the fallacy sometimes given the English name "Two Wrongs Make a Right" fallacy. A Tu Quoque in the example you provided would be committed if someone then pointed at a figure from an opposing perspective and said "But look, he cheated on his wife with an intern in the Oval Office." That would be an attempt to divert attention away from Duggar and also to excuse him because someone on "the other" side (in quotation marks because it is a bifurcation fallacy to assume that there are only two sides, but very common in Western societies, and in fact a plague on Western societies) had also behaved in a manner which was inconsistent with values by which he claimed to live. It would be fallacy of Tu Quoque because 1. it attempts to change the subject, rather than addressing the criticisms, and 2. it attempts to excuse based on the behavior of someone else. What someone else did wasn't the matter under discussion; what Duggar did was, and regardless of what someone else did, Duggar is not excused from the charges against him.
There's no hypocrisy involved, when I didn't attempt to defend the Klingons' behavior, nor did I pretend that they were innocent of similar behavior. What I did was simply to point out that the Feds have not been so pure as was suggested by objecting to the idea that they would blockade a planet.
And don't presume to lecture me on what fallacies are and are not. I know my field very well.
These things were happening in territory claimed by the Klingon Empire long before "Surface Tension" (and before any Fed player had earned access to Omega Leonis).
That is exactly what I am referring to, and what the KDF did in those missions (subdue, conquer -- although scouting is neutral) is irrelevant to the fact that the Fed NPCs in those missions were behaving in an ethically reprehensible manner, as well as the notion that Feds would not blockade a planet. There you go with the Tu Quoque again.
That's still irrelevant. Fed NPCs did those things in those missions. That is a fact. I am not attempting to justify what KDF players (or Fed players, for that matter) did in those missions; I am pointing the finger at Fed NPCs, and what KDF players did does not in any way excuse what Fed NPCs did, nor should it divert attention away from what those Fed NPCs did. Fed NPCs did engage in behavior in those missions which is consistent with blockading a planet.
Yet we still have the accolades earned from those missions. They happened.
No, it was game content, and is a part of STO experience for KDF and KDF-allied RRF players who were around at the time and took advantage of the opportunities. Fed NPCs did not behave in ethically praiseworthy ways. The Federation is by no means innocent or pure. There are plenty of Klingons who believe in Honor and would not have engaged in DOff assignments which they view as dishonorable, but those DOff assignments exist, nevertheless. Why should the Fed player get only DOff assignments which are honorable, when Fed NPCs have demonstrated dishonor? The point is that there are good and bad examples on all sides. The House of Duras, for example, was guilty of all sorts of dishonor. Garth was insane. Torg and the House of Torg are villains in the early KDF missions. T'Nae is a bigot. The Tal'Shiar are not good guys. Sela is a psychopath. We can go into real-world examples as well, but we've already done more than enough of that. So yes, it's entirely within the overall character of the Federation that some Fed players might do things that are not representative of what the Federation stands for.
How thrilling.
So really the only time we are not going to see a ship considered a separate class, is a T5U Variant of a T5 Ship.