Anything that begins with "I don't want to see..." Is unreasonable knucklehead time-wasting outlandish unserious self-obsessed histrionic anti-social edge-of-sanity nonsense.
That rule of thumb should be sufficient to evaluate what we've got here, and any similarly unreasonable demands, whether it's about pink clothes, non-canon uniforms, Klingons, romulans, tall toons, short toons, fire extinguishers, the color red, rep shields, women, aliens, non combat pets, antiproton weapons, emotes, morn, catians, ferengi women wearing clothes, whatever you want.
on the flip side anything that forces another player to break immersion is a knucklehead move. if there is a group of people near the exchange in a roleplay and someone else comes along and drops a DB, the the person using the device is a knucklehead, a jerk and a a-hole. there is no arguing it. it is a childish ego forcing itself on others.
Wait, only an hour? That is ridiculous and the most significant thing stated in this thread.
[REDACTED] Defense Brigade? You mean the North Korean Propaganda Ministry.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
OK, even I have to admit this argument is becoming rather silly. This is supposed to be a simple feature request to add gfx to the nullifier's functions. Instead there is an argument about... Well TRIBBLE.
Seriously, this is just a little QoL request about nullifiers.
So, instead of ranting and raving like a childish fool, I'm going to make a couple of simple requests.
1. To the Op, would you please clarify your initial post to specify a client side removal of gfx, just so there are fewer misinterpretations
2. To the rest of the community, could we all dial down the overreacting a bit, this isn't a thread asking for any changes to be made to 'party amps' just nullifiers, can we keep that in mind, please?
Thank you.
I still think that this request is not something practical simply due to the time it would take to rework the engine.
Ok, you got me on a techinicality.
Implementing this simple request could potentially be more trouble than it's worth, speaking from experience I can say that a simple QoL adjustment often takes quite some time to figure out how to get it working properly 'under the hood'...
Still, since we (non-devs) have little-to-no actual knowledge of what the base code of STO looks like we can't really determine how complicated (or not) it would be to implement a little QoL adjustment such as the one the OP is asking for.
So, without making any assumptions about the base code all we can do is ask if it can be implemented and let the Devs determine if it is worth it from a Risk vs. Reward vs. Effort point of view.
OK, even I have to admit this argument is becoming rather silly. This is supposed to be a simple feature request to add gfx to the nullifier's functions. Instead there is an argument about... Well TRIBBLE.
Seriously, this is just a little QoL request about nullifiers.
So, instead of ranting and raving like a childish fool, I'm going to make a couple of simple requests.
1. To the Op, would you please clarify your initial post to specify a client side removal of gfx, just so there are fewer misinterpretations
2. To the rest of the community, could we all dial down the overreacting a bit, this isn't a thread asking for any changes to be made to 'party amps' just nullifiers, can we keep that in mind, please?
Thank you.
I still think that this request is not something practical simply due to the time it would take to rework the engine.
Ok, you got me on a techinicality.
Implementing this simple request could potentially be more trouble than it's worth, speaking from experience I can say that a simple QoL adjustment often takes quite some time to figure out how to get it working properly 'under the hood'...
Still, since we (non-devs) have little-to-no actual knowledge of what the base code of STO looks like we can't really determine how complicated (or not) it would be to implement a little QoL adjustment such as the one the OP is asking for.
So, without making any assumptions about the base code all we can do is ask if it can be implemented and let the Devs determine if it is worth it from a Risk vs. Reward vs. Effort point of view.
Again, it comes back to "It doesn't hurt to ask".
Also technically true. But... People asked about this a LONG time ago. Back when the party poppers were a new idea.
Anything that begins with "I don't want to see..." Is unreasonable knucklehead time-wasting outlandish unserious self-obsessed histrionic anti-social edge-of-sanity nonsense.
That rule of thumb should be sufficient to evaluate what we've got here, and any similarly unreasonable demands, whether it's about pink clothes, non-canon uniforms, Klingons, romulans, tall toons, short toons, fire extinguishers, the color red, rep shields, women, aliens, non combat pets, antiproton weapons, emotes, morn, catians, ferengi women wearing clothes, whatever you want.
on the flip side anything that forces another player to break immersion is a knucklehead move. if there is a group of people near the exchange in a roleplay and someone else comes along and drops a DB, the the person using the device is a knucklehead, a jerk and a a-hole. there is no arguing it. it is a childish ego forcing itself on others.
As hard as it is to believe, this game does not revolve around your immersion.
Nor does it revolve around a jerk with a disco ball
Anything that begins with "I don't want to see..." Is unreasonable knucklehead time-wasting outlandish unserious self-obsessed histrionic anti-social edge-of-sanity nonsense.
That rule of thumb should be sufficient to evaluate what we've got here, and any similarly unreasonable demands, whether it's about pink clothes, non-canon uniforms, Klingons, romulans, tall toons, short toons, fire extinguishers, the color red, rep shields, women, aliens, non combat pets, antiproton weapons, emotes, morn, catians, ferengi women wearing clothes, whatever you want.
on the flip side anything that forces another player to break immersion is a knucklehead move. if there is a group of people near the exchange in a roleplay and someone else comes along and drops a DB, the the person using the device is a knucklehead, a jerk and a a-hole. there is no arguing it. it is a childish ego forcing itself on others.
As hard as it is to believe, this game does not revolve around your immersion.
Nor does it revolve around a jerk with a disco ball
Correct, both are irrelevant. you may now resume shooting at the giant snowflake.
Anything that begins with "I don't want to see..." Is unreasonable knucklehead time-wasting outlandish unserious self-obsessed histrionic anti-social edge-of-sanity nonsense.
That rule of thumb should be sufficient to evaluate what we've got here, and any similarly unreasonable demands, whether it's about pink clothes, non-canon uniforms, Klingons, romulans, tall toons, short toons, fire extinguishers, the color red, rep shields, women, aliens, non combat pets, antiproton weapons, emotes, morn, catians, ferengi women wearing clothes, whatever you want.
on the flip side anything that forces another player to break immersion is a knucklehead move. if there is a group of people near the exchange in a roleplay and someone else comes along and drops a DB, the the person using the device is a knucklehead, a jerk and a a-hole. there is no arguing it. it is a childish ego forcing itself on others.
As hard as it is to believe, this game does not revolve around your immersion.
Nor does it revolve around a jerk with a [REDACTED]
This isn't a thread about those. If anyone wants to talk about the merits or drawbacks of those they can start their own thread. Please do not talk about those things or the people who use them. This is about buffing the nullifier to completely block the effect client-side. People who like to use the other item still can. They won't be affected. They can party/mourn/praise/whatever all they like and with this change they won't have to feel bad for disrupting players who don't like that item.
There are some people in certain fleets that want to goad this thread into lock territory. Let them do their thing and pay them no mind.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,662Community Moderator
Its not about "Deleting" outright. Its about someone wanting to opt out of having to see the visuals for the Disco Ball client side, as in the person wouldn't see it on their own system but the person next to them can.
Client Side means that it only works on the user's side. Does not affect anything on the server. For example, some people have modded their UI in Team Fortress 2. Its only a cosmetic thing and ONLY appears on their screen and not anyone else's who are are a server.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Its not about "Deleting" outright. Its about someone wanting to opt out of having to see the visuals for the Disco Ball client side, as in the person wouldn't see it on their own system but the person next to them can.
Client Side means that it only works on the user's side. Does not affect anything on the server. For example, some people have modded their UI in Team Fortress 2. Its only a cosmetic thing and ONLY appears on their screen and not anyone else's who are are a server.
Don't pay that player above any attention. That's what they're seeking. That player has left comments on this issue that are brash, mocking, and down right insulting. He/she does everything they can to offer a counter opinion in order to keep people arguing about it.
Seriously, click the player's name, then comments, and look at his/her posts on this subject. In another thread on this subject this player went so far as to say "Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit." in response to another player in the thread. Edit: You can also see insulting behavior in this very thread as well.
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
The arguing in this thread had stopped, and now we have at least 1 certain individual coming back to get things flared up again. The best thing to do is not respond to them. Even if you aren't quoting their comment they still know you are responding to them.
They do this stuff in game also. Sit at ESD for a while when an argument is happening. There have been times I managed to successfully get people to stop arguing by asking them nicely then a short time later this 1 individual says something to trigger an argument again, and they keep it up for hours on end.
Post edited by monkeybone13 on
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,662Community Moderator
Eh... if they come back... we still have the lovely little "Flag" button.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
I'm all for freedom, and people should have the option to customize their experience as much as possible. I'm sure certain people don't want to see the lights and sounds of party amplifiers. I'm sure they would also like to not see other characters dancing. In other words "don't remind me that this other person/thing exists". Well, they do. I think what people are missing here is that this is an MMO. By definition that means there are other people playing this game. Like real life, the presence of other people is messy, inconvenient and sometimes irritating. If it bothers you that much, why not consider a single player game? There are many single player Star Trek games out there. You're bound to like one of them, and you won't run the risk of another person doing something you don't like.
Like I said before, I'm in favor of as much freedom as possible for every player, but let's face it. Not gonna happen. At some level, you're going to have to deal with the fact there are other people in this game who may do things you don't like. Plus, there are far more serious things about this game to get upset about.
They're not really gone, as long as we remember them
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
It wasn't so much about "opposite opinions". It was about how your portray yourself. You've been nothing but rude, sarcastic, and down right mean in a lot of your posts. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody arguing in the thread so you and your buddy show back up and try to pick a fight.
Some examples of your behavior:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/356570/
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
See, that's much better. Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit.
That's a lot of words to say you threw a tantrum and held your breath and the devs still didn't take your threats to leave the game this time for real seriously.
I love this.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my toon dance against my will, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my game lag, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making me actually feel sick irl for real this time, FIX THIS
Keep on making up excuses to try and get discoballs removed guys, you don't look ridiculous at all.
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
It wasn't so much about "opposite opinions". It was about how your portray yourself. You've been nothing but rude, sarcastic, and down right mean in a lot of your posts. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody arguing in the thread so you and your buddy show back up and try to pick a fight.
Some examples of your behavior:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/356570/
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
See, that's much better. Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit.
That's a lot of words to say you threw a tantrum and held your breath and the devs still didn't take your threats to leave the game this time for real seriously.
I love this.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my toon dance against my will, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my game lag, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making me actually feel sick irl for real this time, FIX THIS
Keep on making up excuses to try and get discoballs removed guys, you don't look ridiculous at all.
Just report and move on. That's the best response to them.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
It wasn't so much about "opposite opinions". It was about how your portray yourself. You've been nothing but rude, sarcastic, and down right mean in a lot of your posts. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody arguing in the thread so you and your buddy show back up and try to pick a fight.
Some examples of your behavior:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/356570/
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
See, that's much better. Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit.
That's a lot of words to say you threw a tantrum and held your breath and the devs still didn't take your threats to leave the game this time for real seriously.
I love this.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my toon dance against my will, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my game lag, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making me actually feel sick irl for real this time, FIX THIS
Keep on making up excuses to try and get discoballs removed guys, you don't look ridiculous at all.
If "it wasn't so much about "opposite opinions"" then you wouldn't have needed to say so. You don't like what I had to say about this frankly ridiculous waste of the devs time so you're trying to get others to stop listening to me, just because my opinion is different to yours.
As for the "show[ing] back up" part, I was taking part in discussions in what was apparently this thread until oops it turns out it was just an extra copy of this thread, so all my previous posts from yesterday are gone. Cryptic ate my posts with their TRIBBLE new forum. Even if that wasn't the case, people are allowed to stay out of threads for a while, you know? There's no maximum time between posts before their point is invalid, just like they're allowed to have differing opinions. The fact you feel the need to attack my posting style and make up new rules to try and invalidate me is pretty sad.
Devs, the discoball is fine, the nullifier is fine, please go work on actual gamebreaking bugs instead of caving to the perpetual whiners who will never be happy while players exist outside of their control.
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
It wasn't so much about "opposite opinions". It was about how your portray yourself. You've been nothing but rude, sarcastic, and down right mean in a lot of your posts. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody arguing in the thread so you and your buddy show back up and try to pick a fight.
Some examples of your behavior:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/356570/
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
See, that's much better. Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit.
That's a lot of words to say you threw a tantrum and held your breath and the devs still didn't take your threats to leave the game this time for real seriously.
I love this.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my toon dance against my will, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making my game lag, FIX THIS.
Cryptic Dev: OK it's fixed.
Whiny pubbie: Discoballs are making me actually feel sick irl for real this time, FIX THIS
Keep on making up excuses to try and get discoballs removed guys, you don't look ridiculous at all.
Just report and move on. That's the best response to them.
I think I will, I shouldn't have some troll trying to attack me like this.
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
To those players like myself whom feel that the Nullifiers are not as effective as they currently function; there is/are alternatives to visiting Social Zones for things like the Exchange, Bank, Mail and selling off "Vendor trash".
First, the U.S.S. Azura freighter call "datapad" if it's in your inventory; if you're in a Fleet with a high enough tier Embassy, Spire or Dilithium Mine (These all have Exchange, Bank and Mail access); the Dyson Sphere Adventure Zone's Supply Depot also has a Vendor to buy Space consumables & to sell off Vendor Trash items, as well as Battle Group Omega in the Beta Quadrant; There may be others locales I've not mentioned.
Also unless I'm mistaken, the New Romulus ground map (I believe Party Amps do not/will not function there).
Some of the downsides of these alternatives is/are that you cannot turn in Contraband/Prisoners, some Bridge Officer requisitions may not be available, some Doff assignments may not be available.
Though not perfect "Work-arounds" these alternatives to visiting social zones are available.
Opinions about 'party amps' aside (as that topic is an FCT violation), I have been thinking about the client-side opt-out of visuals suggested for nullifiers. And I'm certain that I can't offer any valid arguments against asking for it aside from:
1. Its implementation could create bugs.
2. It might not positively effect enough players to justify its expense (Dev time costs Cryptic money, which they may be unwilling to part with much for a QoL feature which would only affect a small number of players at any given time).
Still, without any ACTUAL knowledge of the gfx/sfx rendering code, it would be foolish to assume that any change would automatically result in more bugs.
So, without making any assumptions all we can do is ask the Devs if they could look into the code and see if it could be done without too much trouble.
Disco Balls (Party Amplifer) threads
The items are obviously added to the game and aren't going anywhere. However, everytime people make threads about them they tend to turn into threads of flaming, trolling and harassment. As such, we aren't going to allow these threads anymore unless something changes with them.
Note that last part: "...we aren't going to allow these threads anymore unless something changes with them."
The recently found bug, and patching of that bug would be changes with the device. So according to the rules the topic is open for discussion now.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
An interesting interpretation. However, since the bug was fixed... the 'change' you speak of was effectively 'undone'.
The change happened. Undoing the change would simply be changing the change, thus... just more change. To be clear, that is a technicality.
It's also kind of irrelevant.
What is not a technicality, and very relevant, is that something changed, and as a result the discussion has to change. And that is the important part.
The rules state that because these topics generally descend into flame wars new ones may not be opened unless something changes with them. Which makes sense since previously it'd all been discussed before, and nothing constructive could have come from discussing it further. However, something has changed now which can change the conversation and potentially make discussing it productive again, thus making the risk of a potential "trollfest" more worthwhile.
Remember that the first change was unintentional. The device was bugged, and this isn't the first time a social device has been bugged and caused problems. That changes the discussion. It means there's potentially more impact to the devices than the developers intend, and if developers take time out of their schedules to fix that? Well, that too has an impact as going back and putting more man hours into these devices means man hours not spent, say, developing new systems or content.
That's potentially a pretty big change to the fundamental argument surrounding the impact of social devices. It takes things from, "this is ruining my personal sense of immersion" to "these things and ruining some peoples' personal sense of immersion AND obviously have the potential to not work right, cause problems, and waste developer time."
Taking that into consideration their merits are probably worth discussing again, even though they haven't been for quite some time previously. Explaining the rule, and why the topic is and should be open to discussion once more.
Anyway, it's all up to interpretation, and unfortunately the only interpretation that matters comes from the guy with the 'close thread' button.
So, why risk closure over technicalities and semantics?
Technicalities and semantics?
X is a problem. Y is a remedy for X. Y has little to no purpose other than how it relates to X. Discussing Y, by default, is discussing X. Simply not mentioning X doesn't mean you aren't discussing it. If you mention chemotherapy as a treatment you're talking about cancer, even if you don't say the word "cancer". Saying you're not discussing cancer and just chemotherapy is playing semantics.
Using [redacted] instead of referring to the device by name is trying to get around the issue due to the fact that it's mentioned by name in the rules. It's so you can say, "Well, hey... technically we aren't directly saying those words so it's okay!" So... yeah, technicality.
By trying to steer the conversation away from what it is obviously about, and using terms like [redacted] it makes it appear that you know you're doing something wrong, or at least you think you are, and you're trying to dodge around it.
The actual rules spelled out support what I've said. They do not say...
Disco Balls (Party Amplifer) threads
The items are obviously added to the game and aren't going anywhere. However, everytime people make threads about them they tend to turn into threads of flaming, trolling and harassment. As such, we aren't going to allow these threads anymore unless you discuss it in an ever so slightly indirect manner and use [redacted] instead of the terms "Disco Ball" or "Party Amplifier".
So, yeah. If you're looking to avoid semantics and technicalities you might want to step off the path you've chosen to take.
Comments
on the flip side anything that forces another player to break immersion is a knucklehead move. if there is a group of people near the exchange in a roleplay and someone else comes along and drops a DB, the the person using the device is a knucklehead, a jerk and a a-hole. there is no arguing it. it is a childish ego forcing itself on others.
[REDACTED] Defense Brigade? You mean the North Korean Propaganda Ministry.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Ok, you got me on a techinicality.
Implementing this simple request could potentially be more trouble than it's worth, speaking from experience I can say that a simple QoL adjustment often takes quite some time to figure out how to get it working properly 'under the hood'...
Still, since we (non-devs) have little-to-no actual knowledge of what the base code of STO looks like we can't really determine how complicated (or not) it would be to implement a little QoL adjustment such as the one the OP is asking for.
So, without making any assumptions about the base code all we can do is ask if it can be implemented and let the Devs determine if it is worth it from a Risk vs. Reward vs. Effort point of view.
Again, it comes back to "It doesn't hurt to ask".
My character Tsin'xing
Nor does it revolve around a jerk with a disco ball
My character Tsin'xing
This isn't a thread about those. If anyone wants to talk about the merits or drawbacks of those they can start their own thread. Please do not talk about those things or the people who use them. This is about buffing the nullifier to completely block the effect client-side. People who like to use the other item still can. They won't be affected. They can party/mourn/praise/whatever all they like and with this change they won't have to feel bad for disrupting players who don't like that item.
There are some people in certain fleets that want to goad this thread into lock territory. Let them do their thing and pay them no mind.
Please explain how a thread about deleting the effects of discoballs is not a thread about discoballs.
Client Side means that it only works on the user's side. Does not affect anything on the server. For example, some people have modded their UI in Team Fortress 2. Its only a cosmetic thing and ONLY appears on their screen and not anyone else's who are are a server.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Don't pay that player above any attention. That's what they're seeking. That player has left comments on this issue that are brash, mocking, and down right insulting. He/she does everything they can to offer a counter opinion in order to keep people arguing about it.
Seriously, click the player's name, then comments, and look at his/her posts on this subject. In another thread on this subject this player went so far as to say "Nice to see that you can rise above the first grade "haha I'm repeating something over and over" bit." in response to another player in the thread.
P.S. This is exactly what they do: they pop into a thread and get an argument going then leave. Any time the argument looks like it's going to end or it does, they pop back into the thread offering insults and/or opposite opinions to get the argument started again. You have to pay attention and read between the lines, so to speak.
The arguing in this thread had stopped, and now we have at least 1 certain individual coming back to get things flared up again. The best thing to do is not respond to them. Even if you aren't quoting their comment they still know you are responding to them.
They do this stuff in game also. Sit at ESD for a while when an argument is happening. There have been times I managed to successfully get people to stop arguing by asking them nicely then a short time later this 1 individual says something to trigger an argument again, and they keep it up for hours on end.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Holy TRIBBLE are you for real? "Don't respond to this guy, he has OPPOSITE OPINIONS!!" How do you think discussions work? Are you only able to function in a hug box where nobody disagrees?
but then how would they prove how smart/cool/hardcore/whatever the hell they think they are. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Like I said before, I'm in favor of as much freedom as possible for every player, but let's face it. Not gonna happen. At some level, you're going to have to deal with the fact there are other people in this game who may do things you don't like. Plus, there are far more serious things about this game to get upset about.
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
It wasn't so much about "opposite opinions". It was about how your portray yourself. You've been nothing but rude, sarcastic, and down right mean in a lot of your posts. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Nobody arguing in the thread so you and your buddy show back up and try to pick a fight.
Some examples of your behavior:
Just report and move on. That's the best response to them.
If "it wasn't so much about "opposite opinions"" then you wouldn't have needed to say so. You don't like what I had to say about this frankly ridiculous waste of the devs time so you're trying to get others to stop listening to me, just because my opinion is different to yours.
As for the "show[ing] back up" part, I was taking part in discussions in what was apparently this thread until oops it turns out it was just an extra copy of this thread, so all my previous posts from yesterday are gone. Cryptic ate my posts with their TRIBBLE new forum. Even if that wasn't the case, people are allowed to stay out of threads for a while, you know? There's no maximum time between posts before their point is invalid, just like they're allowed to have differing opinions. The fact you feel the need to attack my posting style and make up new rules to try and invalidate me is pretty sad.
Devs, the discoball is fine, the nullifier is fine, please go work on actual gamebreaking bugs instead of caving to the perpetual whiners who will never be happy while players exist outside of their control.
I think I will, I shouldn't have some troll trying to attack me like this.
First, the U.S.S. Azura freighter call "datapad" if it's in your inventory; if you're in a Fleet with a high enough tier Embassy, Spire or Dilithium Mine (These all have Exchange, Bank and Mail access); the Dyson Sphere Adventure Zone's Supply Depot also has a Vendor to buy Space consumables & to sell off Vendor Trash items, as well as Battle Group Omega in the Beta Quadrant; There may be others locales I've not mentioned.
Also unless I'm mistaken, the New Romulus ground map (I believe Party Amps do not/will not function there).
Some of the downsides of these alternatives is/are that you cannot turn in Contraband/Prisoners, some Bridge Officer requisitions may not be available, some Doff assignments may not be available.
Though not perfect "Work-arounds" these alternatives to visiting social zones are available.
1. Its implementation could create bugs.
2. It might not positively effect enough players to justify its expense (Dev time costs Cryptic money, which they may be unwilling to part with much for a QoL feature which would only affect a small number of players at any given time).
Still, without any ACTUAL knowledge of the gfx/sfx rendering code, it would be foolish to assume that any change would automatically result in more bugs.
So, without making any assumptions all we can do is ask the Devs if they could look into the code and see if it could be done without too much trouble.
That's not an unreasonable request, is it?
Not according to the associated thread:
Note that last part: "...we aren't going to allow these threads anymore unless something changes with them."
The recently found bug, and patching of that bug would be changes with the device. So according to the rules the topic is open for discussion now.
Anyway, it's all up to interpretation, and unfortunately the only interpretation that matters comes from the guy with the 'close thread' button.
So, why risk closure over technicalities and semantics?
If you really want to test your theory I'd suggest opening a discussion about 'party amps' and not try to hijack a discussion about nullifiers.
??
Please elaborate, acting like what?
That's what I'd like to know too.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
The change happened. Undoing the change would simply be changing the change, thus... just more change. To be clear, that is a technicality.
It's also kind of irrelevant.
What is not a technicality, and very relevant, is that something changed, and as a result the discussion has to change. And that is the important part.
The rules state that because these topics generally descend into flame wars new ones may not be opened unless something changes with them. Which makes sense since previously it'd all been discussed before, and nothing constructive could have come from discussing it further. However, something has changed now which can change the conversation and potentially make discussing it productive again, thus making the risk of a potential "trollfest" more worthwhile.
Remember that the first change was unintentional. The device was bugged, and this isn't the first time a social device has been bugged and caused problems. That changes the discussion. It means there's potentially more impact to the devices than the developers intend, and if developers take time out of their schedules to fix that? Well, that too has an impact as going back and putting more man hours into these devices means man hours not spent, say, developing new systems or content.
That's potentially a pretty big change to the fundamental argument surrounding the impact of social devices. It takes things from, "this is ruining my personal sense of immersion" to "these things and ruining some peoples' personal sense of immersion AND obviously have the potential to not work right, cause problems, and waste developer time."
Taking that into consideration their merits are probably worth discussing again, even though they haven't been for quite some time previously. Explaining the rule, and why the topic is and should be open to discussion once more.
Technicalities and semantics?
X is a problem. Y is a remedy for X. Y has little to no purpose other than how it relates to X. Discussing Y, by default, is discussing X. Simply not mentioning X doesn't mean you aren't discussing it. If you mention chemotherapy as a treatment you're talking about cancer, even if you don't say the word "cancer". Saying you're not discussing cancer and just chemotherapy is playing semantics.
Using [redacted] instead of referring to the device by name is trying to get around the issue due to the fact that it's mentioned by name in the rules. It's so you can say, "Well, hey... technically we aren't directly saying those words so it's okay!" So... yeah, technicality.
By trying to steer the conversation away from what it is obviously about, and using terms like [redacted] it makes it appear that you know you're doing something wrong, or at least you think you are, and you're trying to dodge around it.
The actual rules spelled out support what I've said. They do not say...
So, yeah. If you're looking to avoid semantics and technicalities you might want to step off the path you've chosen to take.
Since I don't care to make this into an argument, I'll just reiterate my earlier suggestion:
This is a discussion about the nullifier items not the 'party amps', even if it isn't an FCT violation, it is still the wrong thread to bring them up.
It requires little effort to make a new thread. Go on, give it a try, maybe it'll work.
If it does, I'd gladly discuss the merits of 'party amps' in that thread, until, of course, it degrades into petty squabbling and gets closed.
Edit: Apologies if I came off as rude/argumentative, that was not my intent. I'm just trying to be clear, albeit blunt.