I have thought about my position....I thought I made it clear.
Let sleeping dogs lie. The party amp and the nullifier are fine.
New players do have access to the nullifier. They can acquire it like anyone else.
[...]
Your position does seem clear, and hypocritical.
It's not a sleeping dog, the dog's pooping all over the floor and some of us would like those responsible to clean it up.
The nuliffier is not fine, this whole thread is about the fact it's not fine, as it only nulifies some of the effects of a device that many it would seem believe should have never been added to the game in the first place.
Your disregard for new players is also glaringly obvious. Most new players won't know where to go, or that the nulifier even exists. To be honest had I joined STO at the height of this debacle and been greeted with a multitude of immersion breaking, visually obscuring, and in some cases performance reducing disco balls I may well have logged off and uninstalled.
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
I don't know where you are pulling out a disregard for new players from. I have stated that they can get whatever they need JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE. All they have to do is ask about the shiny spinney thing. Is it a disregard for new players when i think they need to learn how to play the game and get to understand the mechanics? Maybe there should be a party tutorial.
It breaks your immersion, we get it. This has been discussed into the ground in the MANY MANY threads (that are now gone) about the amplifier. If you want to avoid having this thread closed then perhaps you should step back from that train and not be so antagonistic.
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. A point further emphasized by your obnoxiously large and provocative signature with a dancing Gorn with several of the contentious devices which has led to this thread in the first place. If that's not being antagonistic I don't know what is.
You're also being deliberately ignorant of what it's like being a new player. A new player may not be part of a player organization and likely has no clue that you can even buy things with GPL. They certainly won't have heard of a Party Nulifier. So given how obnoxious the Party Amplifier can be to some players it would be very wise for the game to make its partial counter available to a new player without them having to blunder about trying to figure it out for themselves.
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. ...
We were all thinking it, no need to type it, that's how they win.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. ...
We were all thinking it, no need to type it, that's how they win.
No, I don't see how pointing out exactly what someone is doing and the reality of their arguments is helping them "win". If you're referring to the possibility of the thread being locked then I would say this... If people like that can shut down legitimate discussion and the voicing of player concerns this game has much bigger problems than endless disco balls. I'd like to give both the moderators and developers the benefit of the doubt and continue to politely but firmly speak my mind, and hope this can be resolved to the satisfaction of all reasonable players... Should be a relatively easy fix.
Buffing Party Nulifiers to remove all effects is the most reasonable live and let live solution.
Can we get a buff to nullifiers so they actually nullify instead of just partially disabling the effects?
Either this guy is a troll or he really really hates disco balls.
I'm betting on "troll".
What about guy who doesn't like pointless visual distractions in places they don't really belong?
Club 47? Use them to your heart's content.
The exchange? Not so much.
It's a device meant for use in social zones in a freakin' MMO. Guess where the exchange is located? In a social zone.
The developers have already met the antis halfway and cooked up the nullifier. Get it, use it, love it. No more involuntary dancing for your characters.
It's easy to ignore the rest.
How does someone else not seeing the visuals affect you?
I can ask you the same thing.
How does seeing silly visuals while conducting business affect you?
I have no problem doing what I have to do and going about my business. The pretty musical ball flashing lights and playing cheesy techno music doesn't interfere with that in the slightest.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,660Community Moderator
If people like that can shut down legitimate discussion and the voicing of player concerns this game has much bigger problems than endless disco balls. I'd like to give both the moderators and developers the benefit of the doubt and continue to politely but firmly speak my mind, and hope this can be resolved to the satisfaction of all reasonable players... Should be a relatively easy fix.
The problem isn't the fact they're shutting down the legit discussions. The problem is there are certain topics that tend to bring out the worst in people and a flame war erupts, in which case the discussion is doomed to be lost in the sea of insults in a futile attempt to get the last word in to make a point. Disco Balls, and unfortunately by extension the Party Nullifiers as they are related, are one such topic.
Everyone has their views on them, and they are entitled to their opinions. The problem is some people try and ram their opinions down other people's throats and say its the truth. So... when that happens....
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Can we get a buff to nullifiers so they actually nullify instead of just partially disabling the effects?
Either this guy is a troll or he really really hates disco balls.
I'm betting on "troll".
What about guy who doesn't like pointless visual distractions in places they don't really belong?
Club 47? Use them to your heart's content.
The exchange? Not so much.
It's a device meant for use in social zones in a freakin' MMO. Guess where the exchange is located? In a social zone.
The developers have already met the antis halfway and cooked up the nullifier. Get it, use it, love it. No more involuntary dancing for your characters.
It's easy to ignore the rest.
How does someone else not seeing the visuals affect you?
I can ask you the same thing.
How does seeing silly visuals while conducting business affect you?
I have no problem doing what I have to do and going about my business. The pretty musical ball flashing lights and playing cheesy techno music doesn't interfere with that in the slightest.
That's your argument? Seriously? If what we see in an MMO doesn't really matter, why bother with all the graphics at all? Heck why bother paying for an expensive IP like Star Trek might as well just put whatever in like player characters that look like a glowing brick that pilot flying Unicorns.
Can we get a buff to nullifiers so they actually nullify instead of just partially disabling the effects?
Either this guy is a troll or he really really hates disco balls.
I'm betting on "troll".
What about guy who doesn't like pointless visual distractions in places they don't really belong?
Club 47? Use them to your heart's content.
The exchange? Not so much.
It's a device meant for use in social zones in a freakin' MMO. Guess where the exchange is located? In a social zone.
The developers have already met the antis halfway and cooked up the nullifier. Get it, use it, love it. No more involuntary dancing for your characters.
It's easy to ignore the rest.
How does someone else not seeing the visuals affect you?
I can ask you the same thing.
How does seeing silly visuals while conducting business affect you?
I have no problem doing what I have to do and going about my business. The pretty musical ball flashing lights and playing cheesy techno music doesn't interfere with that in the slightest.
That's your argument? Seriously? If what we see in an MMO doesn't really matter, why bother with all the graphics at all? Heck why bother paying for an expensive IP like Star Trek might as well just put whatever in like player characters that look like a glowing brick that pilot flying Unicorns.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm mere stating an opinion that's based on common sense.
The key here is MMO. MMOs have social zones. The party amp is a device intended to be used in social zones.
ESD, K7, The Droz, Ganalda, etc are social zones.
I've accepted that fact, and as a result, I've learned to not get my drawers in a wad over it. It doesn't interfere with somebody from going about their character's business (bank, vendors, etc). And if you don't want to dance, the nullifier is a measly 100 GPL. That's a couple or rounds of Dabo, if even that.
And also, from my point of view, using the old "if it wasn't in the IP, it doesn't belong in STO" argument don't jibe. In a game, there is going to be some liberties taken in the interest of gameplay or social interaction (MMO).
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. A point further emphasized by your obnoxiously large and provocative signature with a dancing Gorn with several of the contentious devices which has led to this thread in the first place. If that's not being antagonistic I don't know what is.
You're also being deliberately ignorant of what it's like being a new player. A new player may not be part of a player organization and likely has no clue that you can even buy things with GPL. They certainly won't have heard of a Party Nulifier. So given how obnoxious the Party Amplifier can be to some players it would be very wise for the game to make its partial counter available to a new player without them having to blunder about trying to figure it out for themselves.
Your opinions are not facts. You have a very narrow perception of things. Just because you believe something, doesn't neccessarily make it true.
You are pulling unrelated things together to make something out of nothing. Making unfounded accusations isn't helping your cause, it's only digging you a deeper hole.
You say that I am here to undermine this thread. Newsflash: this thread was already undermined by it's premise and the idea that by NOT mentioning the party amp that somehow makes it legitimate and somehow not violating the FCT. Party amps and nuliffiers have been discussed into the ground by the very many now closed and deleted threads that devolved in to flamefests. This thread was created for one purpose. The same as all the others, another attempt to complain about the party amplifier.
Here is a little secret. I had nothing to do with those party amps being put there (the ones in the incriminating signature). They were already there when I arrived in Drozana station. I merely took advantage of them, and took a screenshot. You know...like other people take screenshots of thing they think are cool in the game. Does that make everyone else who takes screen shots evil too? Or just the one's you don't like? Guess what...that signature wasn't created with this thread in mind.
I play many other games besides this one. As a result, I have been a new player and understand quite well what a new player goes through...in many different games. You know what? I learn the game mechanics in rather short order by playing the game in question, reading forums and other related material, and asking questions in chat. Some games I continue playing, others, I move on from.
If a new player sees something in game that they want to know more about or don't understand, they can ask in zone chat.
I will hazard a guess that you must be new to MMOs with your expectation that everyone revolves around you and your desire for immersion. It doesn't work that way. Learn to get along, and don't sweat non-game breaking stuff. If you see something that bugs you, just move along, don't go to pieces over it. If there is somthing game breaking mechanics-wise (not your immersion) you can always report it, and the developers (of whatever you're playing) will eventually take a look at it, and fix it.
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. A point further emphasized by your obnoxiously large and provocative signature with a dancing Gorn with several of the contentious devices which has led to this thread in the first place. If that's not being antagonistic I don't know what is.
You're also being deliberately ignorant of what it's like being a new player. A new player may not be part of a player organization and likely has no clue that you can even buy things with GPL. They certainly won't have heard of a Party Nulifier. So given how obnoxious the Party Amplifier can be to some players it would be very wise for the game to make its partial counter available to a new player without them having to blunder about trying to figure it out for themselves.
Your opinions are not facts. You have a very narrow perception of things. Just because you believe something, doesn't neccessarily make it true.
You are pulling unrelated things together to make something out of nothing. Making unfounded accusations isn't helping your cause, it's only digging you a deeper hole.
You say that I am here to undermine this thread. Newsflash: this thread was already undermined by it's premise and the idea that by NOT mentioning the party amp that somehow makes it legitimate and somehow not violating the FCT. Party amps and nuliffiers have been discussed into the ground by the very many now closed and deleted threads that devolved in to flamefests. This thread was created for one purpose. The same as all the others, another attempt to complain about the party amplifier.
Here is a little secret. I had nothing to do with those party amps being put there (the ones in the incriminating signature). They were already there when I arrived in Drozana station. I merely took advantage of them, and took a screenshot. You know...like other people take screenshots of thing they think are cool in the game. Does that make everyone else who takes screen shots evil too? Or just the one's you don't like? Guess what...that signature wasn't created with this thread in mind.
I play many other games besides this one. As a result, I have been a new player and understand quite well what a new player goes through...in many different games. You know what? I learn the game mechanics in rather short order by playing the game in question, reading forums and other related material, and asking questions in chat. Some games I continue playing, others, I move on from.
If a new player sees something in game that they want to know more about or don't understand, they can ask in zone chat.
I will hazard a guess that you must be new to MMOs with your expectation that everyone revolves around you and your desire for immersion. It doesn't work that way. Learn to get along, and don't sweat non-game breaking stuff. If you see something that bugs you, just move along, don't go to pieces over it. If there is somthing game breaking mechanics-wise (not your immersion) you can always report it, and the developers (of whatever you're playing) will eventually take a look at it, and fix it.
Actually the purpose was to get the visual effects suppressed along with the emote suppression.
Those other things could be handed out like grinds in DR for all I care *IF* there was a client-side suppression of their effects.
Have all the parties you want. I just don't want to see them.
edit: Learning to get along applies to the people that actively go out of their way to make the game annoying to others. Someone not seeing the lights doesn't hurt you unless you get your jollies by griefing others.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Can we get a buff to nullifiers so they actually nullify instead of just partially disabling the effects?
Either this guy is a troll or he really really hates disco balls.
I'm betting on "troll".
What about guy who doesn't like pointless visual distractions in places they don't really belong?
Club 47? Use them to your heart's content.
The exchange? Not so much.
It's a device meant for use in social zones in a freakin' MMO. Guess where the exchange is located? In a social zone.
The developers have already met the antis halfway and cooked up the nullifier. Get it, use it, love it. No more involuntary dancing for your characters.
It's easy to ignore the rest.
How does someone else not seeing the visuals affect you?
I can ask you the same thing.
How does seeing silly visuals while conducting business affect you?
I have no problem doing what I have to do and going about my business. The pretty musical ball flashing lights and playing cheesy techno music doesn't interfere with that in the slightest.
That's your argument? Seriously? If what we see in an MMO doesn't really matter, why bother with all the graphics at all? Heck why bother paying for an expensive IP like Star Trek might as well just put whatever in like player characters that look like a glowing brick that pilot flying Unicorns.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm mere stating an opinion that's based on common sense.
The key here is MMO. MMOs have social zones. The party amp is a device intended to be used in social zones.
ESD, K7, The Droz, Ganalda, etc are social zones.
I've accepted that fact, and as a result, I've learned to not get my drawers in a wad over it. It doesn't interfere with somebody from going about their character's business (bank, vendors, etc). And if you don't want to dance, the nullifier is a measly 100 GPL. That's a couple or rounds of Dabo, if even that.
And also, from my point of view, using the old "if it wasn't in the IP, it doesn't belong in STO" argument don't jibe. In a game, there is going to be some liberties taken in the interest of gameplay or social interaction (MMO).
What is it with all the posters that come to this thread that are hostile to the OPers idea pretending they're neutral parties just come to inform us of their "common sense". Seriously, you've actually taken the time to come and post in this thread more than once to knock an idea that will have zero effect on your game aside from not being able to inflict something on others who don't want it inflicted on them.
Is being able to make other players look at disco balls and annoying flashing lights against their will that important to you? And why? (Don't deny it isn't important to you, you wouldn't be posting here if it wasn't)
As to the rest... the key here is that this isn't just an MMO... it's an MMORPG, the later part is "role playing game". Yes obviously there's going to some divergence from the IP, but the IP means something, it's why a lot of people picked up this game and continued to play it and give Cryptic/ARC money. And no doubt Cryptic/ARC paid dearly for that IP. You know there's a place for things like a Party Amplifier, just not everywhere. It belongs in places like Risa, it doesn't belong in Klingon social areas.
As to social interaction, what has this party amplifier achieved? Given power to trolls to troll, caused animosity among the playerbase, and even caused some to stop logging in. That is NOT in the interest of gameplay, social interaction, or the long term health of this game. Further shutting down discussions isn't going to make this problem go away... and yes it is a problem if it's making some players stop playing without any good reason for the cause of them to stop playing existing in the first place.
Now all that aside, this thread is primarily about buffing the Party Nulifier (not removing the Amplifier) or using some other avenue so players can opt out of the effects of the Party Amplifier completely. I have yet to see you or anyone else come up with a reason why this shouldn't be done that is remotely grounded in genuine common sense.
What is it with all the posters that come to this thread that are hostile to the OPers idea pretending they're neutral parties just come to inform us of their "common sense". Seriously, you've actually taken the time to come and post in this thread more than once to knock an idea that will have zero effect on your game aside from not being able to inflict something on others who don't want it inflicted on them.
It's a certain collection of fleets that shall not be named that uses a certain item extensively.
This is a common tactic of theirs, which is why I said we were all thinking it.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Actually the purpose was to get the visual effects suppressed along with the emote suppression.
Those other things could be handed out like grinds in DR for all I care *IF* there was a client-side suppression of their effects.
Have all the parties you want. I just don't want to see them.
I really don't care about client-side suppression or negation or whatever you wish to call it. What bothers me is the fairly good probability that something will go wrong, and people with the nullifiers will be out in force screaming about the world ending because they they got mugged by the law of unintended consequences, or just a plain old bug. Worse is that a bug is introduced that affects rendering or something else for everyone, and not just for party amps. Party amps are a silly toy. Keep in mind that this uproar was caused by a bug. Once it's fixed things will go back to the way they were before, and party amps will just become a seldom encountered annoyance/entertainment.
I have to admit I am deeply suspicious of threads that involve amps/nullifiers, given the history of threads about them. I have a hard time viewing any "solution" as being honest. Bear in mind that they go hand in hand, and a thread about one is also about the other.
If people like that can shut down legitimate discussion and the voicing of player concerns this game has much bigger problems than endless disco balls. I'd like to give both the moderators and developers the benefit of the doubt and continue to politely but firmly speak my mind, and hope this can be resolved to the satisfaction of all reasonable players... Should be a relatively easy fix.
The problem isn't the fact they're shutting down the legit discussions. The problem is there are certain topics that tend to bring out the worst in people and a flame war erupts, in which case the discussion is doomed to be lost in the sea of insults in a futile attempt to get the last word in to make a point. Disco Balls, and unfortunately by extension the Party Nullifiers as they are related, are one such topic.
Everyone has their views on them, and they are entitled to their opinions. The problem is some people try and ram their opinions down other people's throats and say its the truth. So... when that happens.... [...]
Yeah well when people disagree it's not always going to be pretty, but it shows people on both sides are at least invested somewhat in the game. Just shutting down volatile discussions isn't going to heal the rift or solve the underlying problems. In fact I'd say if people feel their concerns are being censored and their voice silenced they're more likely to let go of that investment in the game and simply walk away. Even more so when their voice is censored as a result of the actions of their opposite side deliberately torpedoing the discussion with the intent to get it locked (likely because they don't have a real argument to defend their position with). That's IMO far less healthy for the game than letting the nastiest discussions continue out in the open. Clearly, this is a problem that needs to be resolved by those who caused it in the first place, which isn't the players at all. Once that happens the heated discussion will likely die down all on it's own.
If people like that can shut down legitimate discussion and the voicing of player concerns this game has much bigger problems than endless disco balls. I'd like to give both the moderators and developers the benefit of the doubt and continue to politely but firmly speak my mind, and hope this can be resolved to the satisfaction of all reasonable players... Should be a relatively easy fix.
The problem isn't the fact they're shutting down the legit discussions. The problem is there are certain topics that tend to bring out the worst in people and a flame war erupts, in which case the discussion is doomed to be lost in the sea of insults in a futile attempt to get the last word in to make a point. Disco Balls, and unfortunately by extension the Party Nullifiers as they are related, are one such topic.
Everyone has their views on them, and they are entitled to their opinions. The problem is some people try and ram their opinions down other people's throats and say its the truth. So... when that happens.... [...]
Yeah well when people disagree it's not always going to be pretty, but it shows people on both sides are at least invested somewhat in the game. Just shutting down volatile discussions isn't going to heal the rift or solve the underlying problems. In fact I'd say if people feel their concerns are being censored and their voice silenced they're more likely to let go of that investment in the game and simply walk away. Even more so when their voice is censored as a result of the actions of their opposite side deliberately torpedoing the discussion with the intent to get it locked (likely because they don't have a real argument to defend their position with). That's IMO far less healthy for the game than letting the nastiest discussions continue out in the open. Clearly, this is a problem that needs to be resolved by those who caused it in the first place, which isn't the players at all. Once that happens the heated discussion will likely die down all on it's own.
People can disagree and still be civil to each other. This is something that people seem to have forgotten on the internet. Having a flamewar on a game board makes a bad situation much worse, and not only damages the player's experience with the game, but can also damage a companies image for letting a situation spiral out of control. Allowing hate a vitriol to ferment on game forums is a recipe for having players up the ante in game. It's better to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand.
If someone gets censored on this message board, it's their own fault. Self control is the best way to avoid getting moderated, that and the preview button.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,660Community Moderator
Yeah well when people disagree it's not always going to be pretty, but it shows people on both sides are at least invested somewhat in the game. Just shutting down volatile discussions isn't going to heal the rift or solve the underlying problems. In fact I'd say if people feel their concerns are being censored and their voice silenced they're more likely to let go of that investment in the game and simply walk away. Even more so when their voice is censored as a result of the actions of their opposite side deliberately torpedoing the discussion with the intent to get it locked (likely because they don't have a real argument to defend their position with). That's IMO far less healthy for the game than letting the nastiest discussions continue out in the open. Clearly, this is a problem that needs to be resolved by those who caused it in the first place, which isn't the players at all. Once that happens the heated discussion will likely die down all on it's own.
While I agree that it would be best to work out differences... in some cases it turns into a matter of the involved individuals not knowing when to stop and it snowballs out of control. We have seen many examples of flame wars on the forums, especially right after Delta Rising came out. They get pretty nasty, and I mean NUCLEAR.
The Mods choose to try and curb this by shutting down threads where flame wars are taking place or preemptively when they see one about to start.
There is nothing wrong with a civil discussion at all. But the minute insults at reading comprehension (when in some of those cases nothing is being said anyways or words are getting twisted) and in extreme cases mental faculties through to family history start getting thrown around... well... better to cut it off then allow it to continue IMO because nothing will get solved at that level.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
What is it with all the posters that come to this thread that are hostile to the OPers idea pretending they're neutral parties just come to inform us of their "common sense". Seriously, you've actually taken the time to come and post in this thread more than once to knock an idea that will have zero effect on your game aside from not being able to inflict something on others who don't want it inflicted on them.
It's a certain collection of fleets that shall not be named that uses a certain item extensively.
This is a common tactic of theirs, which is why I said we were all thinking it.
Hate to break it to you, but all kinds of people in all kinds of fleets all enjoy the party amplifiers.
To some people, they are a symbol of fun, of joy, of friendship.
To others, they are Memorial Spheres, lit in memory of Leonard Nimoy.
To absolutely everyone though, they're a silly item in a video game. Because fundamentally, that is the fact about what they are.
That's not the issue here. The OP position had nothing to do with denying you the Party Amplifier, merely allowing others to opt out fully from its effects.
So why do you and the others here have a problem with allowing people to opt out of the amplifier's effects? Why are you so determined about retaining the ability to FORCE the effects of the Amplifier on those who don't want to see it?
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
The Mods choose to try and curb this by shutting down threads where flame wars are taking place or preemptively when they see one about to start.
Sometimes it's worth leaving the threads open for a bit to let people vent and see if things will simmer down but yeah, inevitably these things tend to escalate and it does no-one any good to leave it open so they just shut it down. That being said if people are trying to start something in a thread that was perfectly reasonable then the mods will usually just cull those offenders, so people trying to get a thread closed doesn't generally work.
tl;dr a good thread will generally be policed and kept open regardless, a flamebait thread will get snuffed.
Actually the purpose was to get the visual effects suppressed along with the emote suppression.
Those other things could be handed out like grinds in DR for all I care *IF* there was a client-side suppression of their effects.
Have all the parties you want. I just don't want to see them.
I really don't care about client-side suppression or negation or whatever you wish to call it. What bothers me is the fairly good probability that something will go wrong, and people with the nullifiers will be out in force screaming about the world ending because they they got mugged by the law of unintended consequences, or just a plain old bug. Worse is that a bug is introduced that affects rendering or something else for everyone, and not just for party amps. Party amps are a silly toy. Keep in mind that this uproar was caused by a bug. Once it's fixed things will go back to the way they were before, and party amps will just become a seldom encountered annoyance/entertainment.
I have to admit I am deeply suspicious of threads that involve amps/nullifiers, given the history of threads about them. I have a hard time viewing any "solution" as being honest. Bear in mind that they go hand in hand, and a thread about one is also about the other.
Really? You're worried about it being bugged? Then maybe you should tell Cryptic not to release anymore featured episodes, seasons, expansions, or any other kind of update because there might be bugs. There will always be bugs with new changes and Cryptic fixes them. Remember the launch of LoR? Yeah. And the game is still alive and kicking. So if they were to implement the OP's suggestion and something did go wrong, it wouldn't be the end of the game. There have been far worse bugs, lag, game crashes, and holy hell in this game compared to anything a broken party nullifier could ever bring. And people will always complain about bugs in the game. There is no getting around this for ANYTHING in this game.
This has got to be the lamest excuse I've ever read.
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
But you know what? I guess it doesn't matter now does it? By being allowed to visit their studios Cryptic has pretty much signed off on you and your fleet haven't they? They've said in deed what most of us have suspected for years. They're not going to stop you. They're not going to correct you. You won. After long last, you really, really won. STO is yours and no one is going to do a thing about it. Congratulations.
Actually the purpose was to get the visual effects suppressed along with the emote suppression.
Those other things could be handed out like grinds in DR for all I care *IF* there was a client-side suppression of their effects.
Have all the parties you want. I just don't want to see them.
I really don't care about client-side suppression or negation or whatever you wish to call it. What bothers me is the fairly good probability that something will go wrong, and people with the nullifiers will be out in force screaming about the world ending because they they got mugged by the law of unintended consequences, or just a plain old bug. Worse is that a bug is introduced that affects rendering or something else for everyone, and not just for party amps. Party amps are a silly toy. Keep in mind that this uproar was caused by a bug. Once it's fixed things will go back to the way they were before, and party amps will just become a seldom encountered annoyance/entertainment.
I have to admit I am deeply suspicious of threads that involve amps/nullifiers, given the history of threads about them. I have a hard time viewing any "solution" as being honest. Bear in mind that they go hand in hand, and a thread about one is also about the other.
Really? You're worried about it being bugged? Then maybe you should tell Cryptic not to release anymore featured episodes, seasons, expansions, or any other kind of update because there might be bugs. There will always be bugs with new changes and Cryptic fixes them. Remember the launch of LoR? Yeah. And the game is still alive and kicking. So if they were to implement the OP's suggestion and something did go wrong, it wouldn't be the end of the game. There have been far worse bugs, lag, game crashes, and holy hell in this game compared to anything a broken party nullifier could ever bring. And people will always complain about bugs in the game. There is no getting around this for ANYTHING in this game.
This has got to be the lamest excuse I've ever read.
Agreed, what a pathetic excuse; "There might be a bug as a consequence ! OMFG !!! There may be unintended consquences, look out !!! DOOOOOOOOOM !!"
Gimme a break, you could also be hit by a car on your way to work. Does that keep you locked up in your home day in and day out.... ?
I'm all for OP's suggestion. Wouldn't hurt anyone. There is no good reason/excuse to oppose it.
I see some keep avoiding the question at hand. "How would a player opting out of visuals and emotes harm anyone else ?"
I wonder if anyone will actually answer the question at hand.
Anything other then the lame answer/excuse, that it "MAY cause bugs". Because that's one of the biggest cop-outs I've ever heard. If we all operated by that logic, nothing would get accomplished in real life. We'd all be too afraid of failure to do anything.
Comments
That's your opinion. The idea that the nullifier needs 'fixing' is another opinion.
I don't know where you are pulling out a disregard for new players from. I have stated that they can get whatever they need JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE. All they have to do is ask about the shiny spinney thing. Is it a disregard for new players when i think they need to learn how to play the game and get to understand the mechanics? Maybe there should be a party tutorial.
It breaks your immersion, we get it. This has been discussed into the ground in the MANY MANY threads (that are now gone) about the amplifier. If you want to avoid having this thread closed then perhaps you should step back from that train and not be so antagonistic.
Someone can't read, this is about nullifiers.
As long as I can get a true client-side nullifier I wouldn't care if those other things got handed out by the thousand for free.
Actually it's not logging in.
I'd like one that's a step short of that.
No, that your position is hypocritical is not an opinion it's a fact.
As to being antagonistic, you've come into this thread to undermine people's requests for a change that by any reasonably person's standards would have no effect on you. You're essentially here to try and protect your ability to inflict something on other players. A point further emphasized by your obnoxiously large and provocative signature with a dancing Gorn with several of the contentious devices which has led to this thread in the first place. If that's not being antagonistic I don't know what is.
You're also being deliberately ignorant of what it's like being a new player. A new player may not be part of a player organization and likely has no clue that you can even buy things with GPL. They certainly won't have heard of a Party Nulifier. So given how obnoxious the Party Amplifier can be to some players it would be very wise for the game to make its partial counter available to a new player without them having to blunder about trying to figure it out for themselves.
We were all thinking it, no need to type it, that's how they win.
No, I don't see how pointing out exactly what someone is doing and the reality of their arguments is helping them "win". If you're referring to the possibility of the thread being locked then I would say this... If people like that can shut down legitimate discussion and the voicing of player concerns this game has much bigger problems than endless disco balls. I'd like to give both the moderators and developers the benefit of the doubt and continue to politely but firmly speak my mind, and hope this can be resolved to the satisfaction of all reasonable players... Should be a relatively easy fix.
Buffing Party Nulifiers to remove all effects is the most reasonable live and let live solution.
I can ask you the same thing.
How does seeing silly visuals while conducting business affect you?
I have no problem doing what I have to do and going about my business. The pretty musical ball flashing lights and playing cheesy techno music doesn't interfere with that in the slightest.
The problem isn't the fact they're shutting down the legit discussions. The problem is there are certain topics that tend to bring out the worst in people and a flame war erupts, in which case the discussion is doomed to be lost in the sea of insults in a futile attempt to get the last word in to make a point. Disco Balls, and unfortunately by extension the Party Nullifiers as they are related, are one such topic.
Everyone has their views on them, and they are entitled to their opinions. The problem is some people try and ram their opinions down other people's throats and say its the truth. So... when that happens....
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
That's your argument? Seriously? If what we see in an MMO doesn't really matter, why bother with all the graphics at all? Heck why bother paying for an expensive IP like Star Trek might as well just put whatever in like player characters that look like a glowing brick that pilot flying Unicorns.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm mere stating an opinion that's based on common sense.
The key here is MMO. MMOs have social zones. The party amp is a device intended to be used in social zones.
ESD, K7, The Droz, Ganalda, etc are social zones.
I've accepted that fact, and as a result, I've learned to not get my drawers in a wad over it. It doesn't interfere with somebody from going about their character's business (bank, vendors, etc). And if you don't want to dance, the nullifier is a measly 100 GPL. That's a couple or rounds of Dabo, if even that.
And also, from my point of view, using the old "if it wasn't in the IP, it doesn't belong in STO" argument don't jibe. In a game, there is going to be some liberties taken in the interest of gameplay or social interaction (MMO).
Your opinions are not facts. You have a very narrow perception of things. Just because you believe something, doesn't neccessarily make it true.
You are pulling unrelated things together to make something out of nothing. Making unfounded accusations isn't helping your cause, it's only digging you a deeper hole.
You say that I am here to undermine this thread. Newsflash: this thread was already undermined by it's premise and the idea that by NOT mentioning the party amp that somehow makes it legitimate and somehow not violating the FCT. Party amps and nuliffiers have been discussed into the ground by the very many now closed and deleted threads that devolved in to flamefests. This thread was created for one purpose. The same as all the others, another attempt to complain about the party amplifier.
Here is a little secret. I had nothing to do with those party amps being put there (the ones in the incriminating signature). They were already there when I arrived in Drozana station. I merely took advantage of them, and took a screenshot. You know...like other people take screenshots of thing they think are cool in the game. Does that make everyone else who takes screen shots evil too? Or just the one's you don't like? Guess what...that signature wasn't created with this thread in mind.
I play many other games besides this one. As a result, I have been a new player and understand quite well what a new player goes through...in many different games. You know what? I learn the game mechanics in rather short order by playing the game in question, reading forums and other related material, and asking questions in chat. Some games I continue playing, others, I move on from.
If a new player sees something in game that they want to know more about or don't understand, they can ask in zone chat.
I will hazard a guess that you must be new to MMOs with your expectation that everyone revolves around you and your desire for immersion. It doesn't work that way. Learn to get along, and don't sweat non-game breaking stuff. If you see something that bugs you, just move along, don't go to pieces over it. If there is somthing game breaking mechanics-wise (not your immersion) you can always report it, and the developers (of whatever you're playing) will eventually take a look at it, and fix it.
Actually the purpose was to get the visual effects suppressed along with the emote suppression.
Those other things could be handed out like grinds in DR for all I care *IF* there was a client-side suppression of their effects.
Have all the parties you want. I just don't want to see them.
edit: Learning to get along applies to the people that actively go out of their way to make the game annoying to others. Someone not seeing the lights doesn't hurt you unless you get your jollies by griefing others.
What is it with all the posters that come to this thread that are hostile to the OPers idea pretending they're neutral parties just come to inform us of their "common sense". Seriously, you've actually taken the time to come and post in this thread more than once to knock an idea that will have zero effect on your game aside from not being able to inflict something on others who don't want it inflicted on them.
Is being able to make other players look at disco balls and annoying flashing lights against their will that important to you? And why? (Don't deny it isn't important to you, you wouldn't be posting here if it wasn't)
As to the rest... the key here is that this isn't just an MMO... it's an MMORPG, the later part is "role playing game". Yes obviously there's going to some divergence from the IP, but the IP means something, it's why a lot of people picked up this game and continued to play it and give Cryptic/ARC money. And no doubt Cryptic/ARC paid dearly for that IP. You know there's a place for things like a Party Amplifier, just not everywhere. It belongs in places like Risa, it doesn't belong in Klingon social areas.
As to social interaction, what has this party amplifier achieved? Given power to trolls to troll, caused animosity among the playerbase, and even caused some to stop logging in. That is NOT in the interest of gameplay, social interaction, or the long term health of this game. Further shutting down discussions isn't going to make this problem go away... and yes it is a problem if it's making some players stop playing without any good reason for the cause of them to stop playing existing in the first place.
Now all that aside, this thread is primarily about buffing the Party Nulifier (not removing the Amplifier) or using some other avenue so players can opt out of the effects of the Party Amplifier completely. I have yet to see you or anyone else come up with a reason why this shouldn't be done that is remotely grounded in genuine common sense.
It's a certain collection of fleets that shall not be named that uses a certain item extensively.
This is a common tactic of theirs, which is why I said we were all thinking it.
I really don't care about client-side suppression or negation or whatever you wish to call it. What bothers me is the fairly good probability that something will go wrong, and people with the nullifiers will be out in force screaming about the world ending because they they got mugged by the law of unintended consequences, or just a plain old bug. Worse is that a bug is introduced that affects rendering or something else for everyone, and not just for party amps. Party amps are a silly toy. Keep in mind that this uproar was caused by a bug. Once it's fixed things will go back to the way they were before, and party amps will just become a seldom encountered annoyance/entertainment.
I have to admit I am deeply suspicious of threads that involve amps/nullifiers, given the history of threads about them. I have a hard time viewing any "solution" as being honest. Bear in mind that they go hand in hand, and a thread about one is also about the other.
Yeah well when people disagree it's not always going to be pretty, but it shows people on both sides are at least invested somewhat in the game. Just shutting down volatile discussions isn't going to heal the rift or solve the underlying problems. In fact I'd say if people feel their concerns are being censored and their voice silenced they're more likely to let go of that investment in the game and simply walk away. Even more so when their voice is censored as a result of the actions of their opposite side deliberately torpedoing the discussion with the intent to get it locked (likely because they don't have a real argument to defend their position with). That's IMO far less healthy for the game than letting the nastiest discussions continue out in the open. Clearly, this is a problem that needs to be resolved by those who caused it in the first place, which isn't the players at all. Once that happens the heated discussion will likely die down all on it's own.
People can disagree and still be civil to each other. This is something that people seem to have forgotten on the internet. Having a flamewar on a game board makes a bad situation much worse, and not only damages the player's experience with the game, but can also damage a companies image for letting a situation spiral out of control. Allowing hate a vitriol to ferment on game forums is a recipe for having players up the ante in game. It's better to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand.
If someone gets censored on this message board, it's their own fault. Self control is the best way to avoid getting moderated, that and the preview button.
While I agree that it would be best to work out differences... in some cases it turns into a matter of the involved individuals not knowing when to stop and it snowballs out of control. We have seen many examples of flame wars on the forums, especially right after Delta Rising came out. They get pretty nasty, and I mean NUCLEAR.
The Mods choose to try and curb this by shutting down threads where flame wars are taking place or preemptively when they see one about to start.
There is nothing wrong with a civil discussion at all. But the minute insults at reading comprehension (when in some of those cases nothing is being said anyways or words are getting twisted) and in extreme cases mental faculties through to family history start getting thrown around... well... better to cut it off then allow it to continue IMO because nothing will get solved at that level.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
That's not the issue here. The OP position had nothing to do with denying you the Party Amplifier, merely allowing others to opt out fully from its effects.
So why do you and the others here have a problem with allowing people to opt out of the amplifier's effects? Why are you so determined about retaining the ability to FORCE the effects of the Amplifier on those who don't want to see it?
Firstly: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1159287/frequently-created-threads-f-c-t
Secondly:
Sometimes it's worth leaving the threads open for a bit to let people vent and see if things will simmer down but yeah, inevitably these things tend to escalate and it does no-one any good to leave it open so they just shut it down. That being said if people are trying to start something in a thread that was perfectly reasonable then the mods will usually just cull those offenders, so people trying to get a thread closed doesn't generally work.
tl;dr a good thread will generally be policed and kept open regardless, a flamebait thread will get snuffed.
Really? You're worried about it being bugged? Then maybe you should tell Cryptic not to release anymore featured episodes, seasons, expansions, or any other kind of update because there might be bugs. There will always be bugs with new changes and Cryptic fixes them. Remember the launch of LoR? Yeah. And the game is still alive and kicking. So if they were to implement the OP's suggestion and something did go wrong, it wouldn't be the end of the game. There have been far worse bugs, lag, game crashes, and holy hell in this game compared to anything a broken party nullifier could ever bring. And people will always complain about bugs in the game. There is no getting around this for ANYTHING in this game.
This has got to be the lamest excuse I've ever read.
Here you go guys, you can live out your murder fantasies on those awful, awful people dropping discoballs. Hopefully this calms you guys down a bit, being this angry over coloured lights in a game can't be healthy. You've been bitching about this for two years now.
Agreed, what a pathetic excuse; "There might be a bug as a consequence ! OMFG !!! There may be unintended consquences, look out !!! DOOOOOOOOOM !!"
Gimme a break, you could also be hit by a car on your way to work. Does that keep you locked up in your home day in and day out.... ?
I'm all for OP's suggestion. Wouldn't hurt anyone. There is no good reason/excuse to oppose it.
I see some keep avoiding the question at hand. "How would a player opting out of visuals and emotes harm anyone else ?"
I wonder if anyone will actually answer the question at hand.
Anything other then the lame answer/excuse, that it "MAY cause bugs". Because that's one of the biggest cop-outs I've ever heard. If we all operated by that logic, nothing would get accomplished in real life. We'd all be too afraid of failure to do anything.