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No, Plasma Explosions aren't OP... EDIT: Cryptic has now "fixed" them by breaking them further. Ugh

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  • jackmorgan1149jackmorgan1149 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    I'm glad for the change. Outliers like that are always a problem, and I don't think they were wai. They were way too powerful (with beam faw) for the investment. I know what he said... but I don't believe it. I think it would have been a lot harder to admit they've been letting this go on for this long and not calling it what it was.

    I'm not glad for conveniently misplaced patchnotes, or for players who've invested. It should have been fixed/broke months ago.
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  • jackmorgan1149jackmorgan1149 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    For all of our "working as intended" fans:
    And yes, I can confirm that there was also an additional reduction to the core amount of damage that the procs from these Consoles can dish out. This was not done lightly, but only after serious comparative testing on how these Consoles compare to anything similar that offers damage boosts (primarily Tactical +Dmg consoles, such as those from the Spire).

    ? So take away crits, and take away base damage on top? I took these off of my cannon builds because I didn't think they did enough.
  • crosis2014crosis2014 Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    May I suggest a visit to Quark's. Purchase a brick of Gouda for that Whine.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I refer to the entire incident with Neutronic torpedo. History repeats itself. 1/2 fixes still mean that it's broken. The severity of the crit was one thing, but the reduction in damage on top of it.... yea....
    Or more recently, what they did when they "fixed" the R&D consoles. They fixed the broken bit, then nerfed the consoles 40%.

    This "fix" was meant to be temporary though. Who knows, maybe they'll be true to their word and fix the crits quicker than we expected. But I have a feeling they'll take months to do that since they are focusing on lag and performance from what I've heard.
  • kozar2kozar2 Member Posts: 602 Arc User
    Nothing like a quick glance at one of these types of threads every once in a while to remind me of just how much better I am than most people. Thank you posters all, for reconfirming my awesomeness.
  • nh3rdnh3rd Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Leave the damn mechanics alone already. Fix what's broke, not break whats fixed.
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    congrats on slaying your dragon, op​​
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Yep, Cryptic in their typical backward and broken logic figured that since it's broken on some things.. we'll 'fix' it by breaking everything.

    The problem was that Consoles were only doing critical on Fire At Will. They were supposed to be able to Critical on everything, but there was a bug making them only crit on FAW. The fix?

    Remove the crits from FAW.

    Translation: Instead of fixing anything, they broke everything.

    To make it all even easier to swallow, they left the 'fix' out of the Tribble patch notes until the upgrade weekend was over so that we would all dump resources into these consoles, only to have them rendered useless on Thursday. They not only are taking out the critical chance, but also a 25% damage reduction on consoles. Because one nerf is never enough!

    The Cryptic staff honestly and truly has no respect for the player base at all. I used to defend them a long time ago, but now I honestly and truly believe that they make decisions without even the slightest bit of thought to how the players will feel or how it will be perceived. They simply don't care about anything except making things as easy on themselves as possible.

    I'm also calling it now.. the 'temporary' change of removal of critical.. will never be changed back. Don't fool yourselves, the change is permanent. Fixing it would require work, and fixing bugs doesn't make money. Just nerf it and release more T6 ship packs.

    Disgusting business practices. I'm very happy I have decided to no longer financially support this company.


    I tend to agree here. I must also point out that fixes ala warp core (W->S) we had a few weeks back heavily give the impression that the remaining staff among the DEV team seems to have massive trouble to keep control over this game’s meta.

    It’s hard to support a video game when the confidence in the people that run it is broken.

    I’m sorry Cryptic.
    congrats on slaying your dragon, op

    The OP’s intention was to point out that their performance was defective. It was not his intention to remove their benefits from game entirely.
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  • p4hajujup4hajuju Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    Well it was fun while it lasted. Not too expensive way to boost your dps to kill the big NPC:s of the game.

    This is a push for us to get the new consoles so they'll have the same treatment later on when there's more consoles to get.

    I'm just a bit sad that I wasted resources during the weekend to give my alts a little more dps with the consoles. If the tribble notes had included this info I wouldn't have done it.
    Galavant!
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  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    p4hajuju wrote: »
    I'm just a bit sad that I wasted resources during the weekend to give my alts a little more dps with the consoles. If the tribble notes had included this info I wouldn't have done it.

    That is pretty much the worst offender, imho.
    They knew for months how the embassy consoles & plasma explosions behave, they knew they'd get a backlash if they do something as dramatic as shutting down crits completly, they must have known that a lot of people would go after them during the upgrade event since they really are "a thing" now.
    Yet as the event started it was silently "patched" (more like broken even more) on tribble without any further notice and it will hit holodeck a couple of days after the upgrade event.
    Srsly, this is bs.
  • x0rphenx0rphen Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Personally its not so much about the lowered performance as it is about them trying to Flat out trick Players.

    They offer a Ferrari (While making clear its WAI), wait till players have sunk time/money into it, and when enough have done so they turn it into a Pile of Junk.

    Simple as that.
    Its not like this has been the first time, have seen multiple instances of this happening throughout my playtime.

    At this point i can only speak for myself that this is the last for me in a row of such events and it simply makes me not invest a single penny anymore into this game.

    The Balance reason behind it in all Honors but if you as a Developer Praise something as "Working As Intended" and then change it anyways because "We do not have enough Manpower to fix it Properly", what kind of Picture does that make towards possible Customers?

    Who would make a purchase like that knowing that at any point the purchased item could turn into something completely different and/or useless?

    Well, let me tell you, i wont.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    praxi5 wrote: »
    I do not agree with this solution - the problem wasn't that they Crit, but rather how hard they Crit.

    I still believe that they should have (properly) fixed it so that they properly Crit with SS/SV/RF/whatever, but reduced the severity and damage of those Crits.

    I do believe your intent for bringing up this issue was genuine, so I'm not going to jump down your throat.

    I do however, hope this example is a lesson to everyone that sees an 'exploit.' If you see something like this in the future, you should ignore it and move on. If you feel it's an exploit and you don't like it, don't use it.

    We have an entire section of bug reports that goes largely unfixed. If you point out something like this though, you can be sure that Cryptic will respond with the most heavy handed approach possible. You should never, ever report exploits to Cryptic.. I'm sorry but that is just the flat out truth. This dev team is absolutely awful, they are only interested in taking the fastest and easiest approach to fixing anything. They will always act without any consideration fairness or balance, it's all about the fastest and easiest possible solution.

    I agreed with you (still do) that the mechanic was obviously broken. The damage was too high and the consoles should have been able to score critical hits with any weapon type. This is more effort that Cryptic is willing to put in, all they care about is crapping out T6 ships every month trying to suck every last dime. When you report things like this, you just bring about heavy handed global nerfs for everyone.

    For what it's worth, I respect your intention and know you were trying to do what any player should be able to do. We should be able to report things we feel are imbalanced, but with Cryptic you simply can't. You have to remember the pure lazy and self serving nature of this dev team. They honestly don't care about anything other then making money and fixing bugs doesn't make money.

    To those that think it's a good thing, I get why you were unhappy with the initial problem, but soon this approach will remove something you do currently use. This will always be the way, the communities only real defense is to stop reporting broken mechanics.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Oh noes - BFAW isn't quite as OP as it was before! :|

    I mean seriously. Those of us who don't use BFAW didn't really benefit from the OP byproduct of these consoles anyway. I can't stress this enough - those of us who don't use BFAW are not going to notice any difference.

    The real problem, like it or not, is over-dependance on BFAW - because, whilst removing the proc altogether is a questionable move, the only people who'll really notice this change are those who spam BFAW.

    you must have missed the part about the damage nerf across the board?​​
  • lsegnlsegn Member Posts: 594 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    The big problem with DR...they tried to make things tougher which I commend but they went about it the wrong way...they went about it their way...which in all honestly is shoving people towards power creep...the game doesn't take much skill or tactics...it just basically takes raw damage.

    If they put more into improving the skill of mobs instead of making them big floating zombie damage sponges things could be more leveled between PvE and PvP...because both would take skill and tactics...PvE is raw damage while PvP is a mix of damage, skill, and tactics.

    I'm not saying you don't have a point I suppose...just the problem is PvE...it takes no skill above being able to do decent damage...you do good damage you get the job done...plain and simple. Never have in my almost 12 years of MMO gaming ever played a MMO where all it takes to beat even the toughest PvE challenges is raw DPS.

    That still doesn't change the fact that if something is broken it's broken...if people are truly losing 70% of their dps...or least 70% of their console dps something is broken.

    Either it was critting way to often or the crits were way beyond what they should of been.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Oh noes - BFAW isn't quite as OP as it was before! :|

    I mean seriously. Those of us who don't use BFAW didn't really benefit from the OP byproduct of these consoles anyway. I can't stress this enough - those of us who don't use BFAW are not going to notice any difference.

    The real problem, like it or not, is over-dependance on BFAW - because, whilst removing the proc altogether is a questionable move, the only people who'll really notice this change are those who spam BFAW.

    you must have missed the part about the damage nerf across the board?​​

    I'm fairly certain that's for when they fix Critting at some point, we shall see.
  • lsegnlsegn Member Posts: 594 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I'm wondering if there isn't a way for them to have exclusive benefits for Science ships so this nerf would be entirely unnecessary, atleast in part. They could rebalance the DPS completely and have each console grant .5% proc chance per weapon slot. So science ships would have a 3% proc chance per console equipped. But it scales inversely to how many weapon slots you have. Escorts would have .35% chance per weapon equipped for a total of 2.45% chance per console and cruisers would get a .25% proc chance per weapon for a 2% proc per console. Perhaps some form of scalable damage would also be possible based on weapon slots so science ships and carriers would receive the most benefit as original intended.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I do however, hope this example is a lesson to everyone that sees an 'exploit.' If you see something like this in the future, you should ignore it and move on. If you feel it's an exploit and you don't like it, don't use it.

    This will always be the way, the communities only real defense is to stop reporting broken mechanics.

    Sorry, but this is literally the dumbest piece of "advice" I've ever read on this forum. Ignoring exploits, bugs and broken mechanics is not the solution to anything except a swift death blow for the game.

    Being pissed at Cryptic, and justifiably so, is a normal reaction. Not trusting them to get their act together after everything we've seen from them throughout the years is also completely understandable. Hell, I don't trust them to get their act together either, that's why I stopped investing real cash in this bug-ridden and broken product years ago. Their work speaks for themselves and all you need is one look at STO. Hell, even take a look at NW. So yeah, at least we that have been around for a while know who we're dealing with, that's not debatable.

    By all means, be pissed at Cryptic. They did deserve it for much more than one reason. If you're unhappy with the way things are handled around here - stop spending money for a while, don't jump like a trained monkey to any weekend or whatever grind event they pull out to boost metrics, play on your own terms, stop throwing buckets of cash on the gambling boxes, etc., etc. (to clarify, I was speaking in general about the playerbase, not about you in particular seaofsorrows).
    But the solution to our issues with STO and Cryptic is not ignoring exploits and bugs, pretending they're not there and keeping quiet about them until the game is so broken that it makes our PCs explode, only because we don't trust Cryptic as a developer while at the same time we (as a community, a playerbase) don't actually show it and keep filling their pockets with cash for a broken product, then just go back to whining on the forum.
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  • lsegnlsegn Member Posts: 594 Arc User
    p4hajuju wrote: »
    I'm just a bit sad that I wasted resources during the weekend to give my alts a little more dps with the consoles. If the tribble notes had included this info I wouldn't have done it.

    That is pretty much the worst offender, imho.
    They knew for months how the embassy consoles & plasma explosions behave, they knew they'd get a backlash if they do something as dramatic as shutting down crits completly, they must have known that a lot of people would go after them during the upgrade event since they really are "a thing" now.
    Yet as the event started it was silently "patched" (more like broken even more) on tribble without any further notice and it will hit holodeck a couple of days after the upgrade event.
    Srsly, this is bs.

    If you honestly thought they weren't going to be fixed then your an idiot of truly epic proportions. Cryptic doesn't fix things instantly they do testing first, you should know this. They were fixed the first time and this time they were even worse. I KNEW when I bought and upgraded them that they would be fixed someday soon and anyone with half a brain cell knew the same.
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    shpoks wrote: »
    I do however, hope this example is a lesson to everyone that sees an 'exploit.' If you see something like this in the future, you should ignore it and move on. If you feel it's an exploit and you don't like it, don't use it.

    This will always be the way, the communities only real defense is to stop reporting broken mechanics.

    Sorry, but this is literally the dumbest piece of "advice" I've ever read on this forum. Ignoring exploits, bugs and broken mechanics is not the solution to anything except a swift death blow for the game.

    Being pissed at Cryptic, and justifiably so, is a normal reaction. Not trusting them to get their act together after everything we've seen from them throughout the years is also completely understandable. Hell, I don't trust them to get their act together either, that's why I stopped investing real cash in this bug-ridden and broken product years ago. Their work speaks for themselves and all you need is one look at STO. Hell, even take a look at NW. So yeah, at least we that have been around for a while know who we're dealing with, that's not debatable.

    By all means, be pissed at Cryptic. They did deserve it for much more than one reason. If you're unhappy with the way things are handled around here - stop spending money for a while, don't jump like a trained monkey to any weekend or whatever grind event they pull out to boost metrics, play on your own terms, stop throwing buckets of cash on the gambling boxes, etc., etc. (to clarify, I was speaking in general about the playerbase, not about you in particular seaofsorrows).
    But the solution to our issues with STO and Cryptic is not ignoring exploits and bugs, pretending they're not there and keeping quiet about them until the game is so broken that it makes our PCs explode, only because we don't trust Cryptic as a developer while at the same time we (as a community, a playerbase) don't actually show it and keep filling their pockets with cash for a broken product, then just go back to whining on the forum.
    Ya, just look at when this fix is coming to Holodeck : 3 days after the "upgrade weekend" lol
    and didn't they clearly say that the plasma explosion proc "fix" was WAI and they wouldn't have touched them anymore ?
    Like a Ferengi boss.


    P58WJe7.jpg


  • mosul33mosul33 Member Posts: 836 Arc User
    Finally. I good change and a small (very tiny) step for balance with other skills and weapon types.
    Now lets see the rage and tears when it will go live lol
    And this doesnt mean it makes those console completly useless. Heck, I'll still use them since need the +th or -th, according to case/ship builds.
    And they still provide their +Flow/PrtG stats. Wich still boost powerlvls (via leach) in flow case or exotic dmg in PrtG case. That extra dmg from explosions was ment to be just that - a bit of "something" extra there, but surely not the MAIN reason one would use them...

    hmm, wonder if they will reset again their dps channels lol
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    shpoks wrote: »

    Sorry, but this is literally the dumbest piece of "advice" I've ever read on this forum. Ignoring exploits, bugs and broken mechanics is not the solution to anything except a swift death blow for the game.

    Ordinarily, I would be the first one to agree with you. However, this only applies when you can trust that the people you're reporting to will actually DO something to fix the problem. Cryptics new stance is they don't fix anything anymore, they just completely disable it. These lazy and pathetic excuses for developers aren't going to fix anything, so why on earth would I ever report a bug to them?

    If I report an exploit, I have only two possible outcomes.

    1. It's ignored
    2. The power is stripped to the bone for everyone in the game that uses it, or just removed completely.

    Normally, you would be absolutely right. In a game with a competent staff, or one that at least cares even a little bit.. you would be right. We're dealing with a group of devs that are just trying to tread water while trying to sell as much additional broken content as possible. It's decisions like this one that are already killing this game.. they're doing that through their total apathy toward the entire game in general.

    Reporting exploits has no possible positive outcome when you're reporting it to people that simply can't be bothered to fix it. It's just that simple.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,896 Arc User
    shpoks wrote: »

    Sorry, but this is literally the dumbest piece of "advice" I've ever read on this forum. Ignoring exploits, bugs and broken mechanics is not the solution to anything except a swift death blow for the game.

    Ordinarily, I would be the first one to agree with you. However, this only applies when you can trust that the people you're reporting to will actually DO something to fix the problem. Cryptics new stance is they don't fix anything anymore, they just completely disable it. These lazy and pathetic excuses for developers aren't going to fix anything, so why on earth would I ever report a bug to them?

    If I report an exploit, I have only two possible outcomes.

    1. It's ignored
    2. The power is stripped to the bone for everyone in the game that uses it, or just removed completely.

    Normally, you would be absolutely right. In a game with a competent staff, or one that at least cares even a little bit.. you would be right. We're dealing with a group of devs that are just trying to tread water while trying to sell as much additional broken content as possible. It's decisions like this one that are already killing this game.. they're doing that through their total apathy toward the entire game in general.

    Reporting exploits has no possible positive outcome when you're reporting it to people that simply can't be bothered to fix it. It's just that simple.

    Well it's being fixed...they just take their sweet time doing it...the Neutronic topr was fixed...SS was fixed...they're just real slow about doing it in case you didn't notice...but you've been paying attention so you must have noticed? Right?

    They have done that over and over again...

    Or is it you hope these exploits don't get reported so can use them to abuse DPS?

    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    This can be easy resolved by limiting the number of consoles a ship can have to one or two.

    I think it's really sad that we only have one type of SCI console if you want extra DPS.

    This is really low on my list of gripes as the trait system is limiting game play.

    Every time I turn around people are refusing to do ground missions. They just find it to big of a hassle to re-trait.

    So what's a bigger issue a console giving you extra DPS or a better re-trait system.

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  • snipey47asnipey47a Member Posts: 485 Media Corps
    edited August 2015
    As I discussed on the livestream of the SHOW with Odenknight and crew, here is my original testing of plasma explosion and what is currently on tribble due to be transported to the live shard this week.

    http://i58.tinypic.com/903mer.jpg

    Original testing video from 4th June:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khu_NQQH7c0

    Discussion in the Tribble comments section:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/1198746/plasma-explosion-embassy-consoles-bfaw-crits/p1

    Regards,

    Snipey47a
    Post edited by pwlaughingtrendy on
  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    I find the timing of this change suspicious... and as someone above eluded to them wanting to entice us to the R&D consoles from the new holding (keep up that grind folks).

    This particular problem dates back a ways (iirc) BFAW + Embassy Console... why the fix now? Might be the tin-foil hat is on too tight, but the timing is just too convenient... New Science Consoles available that require grind.... better nerf the ones everyones unlocked already... get them grinding again.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    I find the timing of this change suspicious... and as someone above eluded to them wanting to entice us to the R&D consoles from the new holding (keep up that grind folks).

    This particular problem dates back a ways (iirc) BFAW + Embassy Console... why the fix now? Might be the tin-foil hat is on too tight, but the timing is just too convenient... New Science Consoles available that require grind.... better nerf the ones everyones unlocked already... get them grinding again.

    Honestly, I don't think it's that, I believe it's just pure coincidence.

    I think even they didn't realize that it was only Critting with FAW until Snipey posted his video. They then spent the intervening time trying to (properly) fix it, and then came to the conclusion that it's "not feasible" in the past few days.

    The timing sucks, but I doubt it's a huge conspiracy.
  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    I post here what ive somewhat posted before elsewhere.But as a science officer Chasing the DPS carrot which is what this game has become , im greatly disappointed in the LACK of judgement on the systems team , rather than a BALANCED pass to the creep , they once again go after what works to make dedicated Sci decent at DPS . how many times are they going to effect changes to these consoles ?? ive spent plenty of resources on these consoles to boost my DPS , now first they took the bonus to plasma damage made it a bonus to the proc effect and to a explosion now they took the crit option completely out of it , this is nuts , this doesn't hurt the high dps parsers it hurts those in the lower tiers of this DPS elitist BS ,Resources and time wasted all the same with this nerf .how about killing the Crit on FAW3 itself ?? or kill the crit on the Rom operatives? i kid on those but that's what this feels like to me .
  • tyriniussstyriniusss Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    lsegn wrote: »
    [...]Cryptic doesn't fix things instantly they do testing first, you should know this. [...]


    Sorry, but LOL! You should know they don't, otherwise there wouldn't be broken stuff introduced with practically every major update...​​
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    quepan wrote: »
    I post here what ive somewhat posted before elsewhere.But as a science officer Chasing the DPS carrot which is what this game has become , im greatly disappointed in the LACK of judgement on the systems team , rather than a BALANCED pass to the creep , they once again go after what works to make dedicated Sci decent at DPS . how many times are they going to effect changes to these consoles ?? ive spent plenty of resources on these consoles to boost my DPS , now first they took the bonus to plasma damage made it a bonus to the proc effect and to a explosion now they took the crit option completely out of it , this is nuts , this doesn't hurt the high dps parsers it hurts those in the lower tiers of this DPS elitist BS ,Resources and time wasted all the same with this nerf .how about killing the Crit on FAW3 itself ?? or kill the crit on the Rom operatives? i kid on those but that's what this feels like to me .

    As a science captain myself, they haven't taken your potential DPS away. Other forms of exotic damage still pack a punch. I don't even have a very well made part gens boat, and it just rips apart NPCs pretty well. Use the new Research holding consoles and you can build some very nice 2 sci skill boats. The grav gens/part gens combo with exotic damage boosts seems particularly useful for PvE.
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