So, if the OP doesn't like getting blown up, he can switch to the new invincibility meta and he won't have to worry about it anymore.
Come to think of it, only too recently the OP request a nerf for the manifold of 'immunites' in game. You can't have it both ways, people: either you're dying too much, or too little. Maybe folks need to make up their mind on which end of the fence they want to set up camp.
So, if the OP doesn't like getting blown up, he can switch to the new invincibility meta and he won't have to worry about it anymore.
Come to think of it, only too recently the OP request a nerf for the manifold of 'immunites' in game. You can't have it both ways, people: either you're dying too much, or too little. Maybe folks need to make up their mind on which end of the fence they want to set up camp.
So, it's either stay undying forever or get popped in 0.2 seconds?
Makes total sense.
It shouldn't be black and white, explode or zombie. Besides, even with the immunities, you can't use them defensively (or proactively) due to the random nature of these explosions. And the explosions, as demonstrated, are more than capable of popping you instantly, without warning.
Example: Oh look! I happened to catch a Vaper before he decloaked and used his Alpha on me. Phew, good thing I used Rock and Roll in time to avoid his "once every 3 minute" Alpha Strike. I'll carry on. Oh wait, what? A random hit from FAW off of someone's aft Beam Array killed me with an explosion.
Are you simply not understanding the mechanics and gameplay involved here, or are you intentionally trolling? Because if it's the former, I'd be happy to explain it to you. If it's the latter, well...
Regardless, there is no debate here! These consoles are indefensibly broken. The intention was to nerf them from their previous OP state, but they ended up being more powerful than before. There is simply no arguing that they are now working as intended, because they are doing the opposite of what the nerf was intended to do.
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
I just discovered this video. It's.. embarrassing that this made it to Live. (Skip to 1m 30sec to avoid all of the filler and just get to the good stuff)
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public. Thanks!
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public. Thanks!
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public. Thanks!
Considering PvP has not been touched/expanded or updated for a very very long time, in fact the Dev team have all but abandoned it, all i can say to the request of nerfing these consoles from someone who only does PvE and is having fun using them and it is part of my build, and to you who wants to make the value of something i purchased devalued is "Request to nerf DENIED".
To put your argument in a better context "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"
Now, aside from the usual bickering of pvpers, its quite true, that the consoles are a tad to good, especially considering they should be a "nerf" of the previously applied plasma-proc. On the other hand, they are not unchallenged anymore.
And on the very other hand, pvp is dead. The pvp-community said that. So, why should one care what happens in pvp? If you dont like it, go play a game were pvp is actually balanced. It never was here, and never will.
maybe we should axe PvE and only be a PvP game since apparently they can't balance PvE without everyone using the same old bugged builds...maybe they should eliminate PvE
I think you got confused with PvE and PvP. If anything, PvP should be removed from the game, as it would impact a way way way smaller community than PvE. And especially the community with the most critique towards the game. Two birds with one stone.
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public. Thanks!
Anyway, I'm not sure how exactly they did it, possibly something to do with the new research lab consoles, but there was a video going around earlier of an ISA run with DPS in the -millions-, the ship just zooming around one hitting everything in the zone. Gateway, tac cube, all of it dying instantly.
Presume that's the infamous 43 second run?
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public. Thanks!
And there you have it. PROOF that this game is very, very broken.
Those are some of the top guys in the DPS channels. 99% of the players in the dps channels couldn't replicate that level of carnage. Thats nothing more than an example of what can be achieved, but not proof that everyone is doing it
Considering PvP has not been touched/expanded or updated for a very very long time, in fact the Dev team have all but abandoned it, all i can say to the request of nerfing these consoles from someone who only does PvE and is having fun using them and it is part of my build, and to you who wants to make the value of something i purchased devalued is "Request to nerf DENIED".
To put your argument in a better context "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"
Maybe you missed this part, so I will repeat it for you.
THEY ARE NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. They were changed from the OP IN PVE (keep that in mind...) Burn to the Explosion because the Devs found them to be OP (and they obviously were). Now they are doing more damage than than the original Burn. Does that sound like a nerf that is working properly to you?
Those are some of the top guys in the DPS channels. 99% of the players in the dps channels couldn't replicate that level of carnage. Thats nothing more than an example of what can be achieved, but not proof that everyone is doing it
100% of the players in the entire game are able to replicate this! There's nothing special in that, most players just aren't willing to do so.
Irrelevant! Wheather you have ever participated in PvP or not, around here asking for something completely broken and OP to be fixed makes you the whiniest PvPer of them all by default!!!
P.S. Just to make it perfeclty clear, I was sarcastic in the post before and I still am.
Maybe you missed this part, so I will repeat it for you.
THEY ARE NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. They were changed from the OP IN PVE (keep that in mind...) Burn to the Explosion because the Devs found them to be OP (and they obviously were). Now they are doing more damage than than the original Burn. Does that sound like a nerf that is working properly to you?[/quote]
Broken or not, all i saw was a rant from someone getting TRIBBLE slapped in PvP and calling nerf.
Now the average Joe who doesn't mini-maximise his build, but does have these equipped may on the odd occasion get a lucky one shot in but its the DPS guys who have worked out how to maximise CRTD/CRTH to maximum effect that pull the numbers. Which makes these consoles look so awesome. Joe Pick Up Group which makes up a large portion of the STO player base can't consistantly proc those consoles and nuke everything in sight. To the casual player just plodding along these consoles work as intended. To those who maximise ship potential for DPS only then, yes they look overpowered.
So what do we do reign the consoles in because another small percentage of the player base knows how to use these consoles to maximum effect, which griefs another small percentage of the player base which in turn Penalises the larger player base who have don't see an issue.
Broken or not, all i saw was a rant from someone getting TRIBBLE slapped in PvP and calling nerf.
Now the average Joe who doesn't mini-maximise his build, but does have these equipped may on the odd occasion get a lucky one shot in but its the DPS guys who have worked out how to maximise CRTD/CRTH to maximum effect that pull the numbers. Which makes these consoles look so awesome. Joe Pick Up Group which makes up a large portion of the STO player base can't consistantly proc those consoles and nuke everything in sight. To the casual player just plodding along these consoles work as intended. To those who maximise ship potential for DPS only then, yes they look overpowered.
So what do we do reign the consoles in because another small percentage of the player base knows how to use these consoles to maximum effect, which griefs another small percentage of the player base which in turn Penalises the larger player base who have don't see an issue.
If all you see is someone who got "***** slapped" in PvP calling for a nerf", then maybe you should open your eyes. Surprise: People like getting blown in up PvP every now and then, because it means you're not roflstomping through and there's actually a challenge.
If the Average Joe, who you claim to be defending, doesn't see the maximum benefit from these consoles, then they won't be hurt if they're reigned in, by that same logic.
If the Average Joe "only" gets a 10K hit off of these consoles, and they're nerfed so that he only gets something like a 7K hit, is he really being penalized that much?
lol It's actually hillarious seeing people trying to defend something so clearly broken in order to cover their own incompetence at such a easy, brainless game like STO.
Regardless, there is no debate here! These consoles are indefensibly broken. The intention was to nerf them from their previous OP state, but they ended up being more powerful than before. There is simply no arguing that they are now working as intended, because they are doing the opposite of what the nerf was intended to do.
There is actually. The only way you to know how powerful pre nerf and now is to shave all the current power creep by using what is available back then which would have the prenerf in advantage due to the +beam bonus. You base your information from "I got pawned" therefore it is overpowered which is not factual.
Rather than be humble and accept you need to learn something new to counter the plasma consoles, you just refuse and complain left and right at the forums instead.
This is no different from any other power you use in PvP and kills other less knowledgeable players and they dont know how to counter your stuff which they personal deemed as Overpowered since they have no idea how to counter them.
Irrelevant! Wheather you have ever participated in PvP or not, around here asking for something completely broken and OP to be fixed makes you the whiniest PvPer of them all by default!!!
P.S. Just to make it perfeclty clear, I was sarcastic in the post before and I still am.
I would believe the OP if the thread actually contained information about apple to apple comparisons rather than apples vs oranges and using variable environment as proof as being OP.
However, the OP didnt. Which makes me believe that the OP just wants it nerf because the OP has no idea to counter the plasma consoles and let the devs do the competing for OP instead of the OP learning to adapt.
THEY ARE NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. They were changed from the OP IN PVE (keep that in mind...) Burn to the Explosion because the Devs found them to be OP (and they obviously were). Now they are doing more damage than than the original Burn. Does that sound like a nerf that is working properly to you?
Prove it using data. Rather than nosensical I got pawned therefore it is OP.
Meaning you need to use non of the new power creeps that werent available back then pre nerf. In short take away all the variables including pilot skill difference, power creep, etc.
Rather than be humble and accept you need to learn something new to counter the plasma consoles, you just refuse and complain left and right at the forums instead.
This is no different from any other power you use in PvP and kills other less knowledgeable players and they dont know how to counter your stuff which they personal deemed as Overpowered since they have no idea how to counter them.
However, the OP didnt. Which makes me believe that the OP just wants it nerf because the OP has no idea to counter the plasma consoles and let the devs do the competing for OP instead of the OP learning to adapt.
Prove it using data. Rather than nosensical I got pawned therefore it is OP.
Meaning you need to use non of the new power creeps that werent available back then pre nerf. In short take away all the variables including pilot skill difference, power creep, etc.
Ok, Pax. You're a knowledgeable player. Go ahead and tell me what counters there are to it.
Spoiler Alert: There are no counters.
But, since you seem to insist that I'm just a fool who doesn't want to learn (which, honestly, is like half of the reason we PvP as opposed to PvE, but I digress), go ahead and tell me what this counter is
What are you talking about "removing the variables"? These are, plain as day, OP.
Look at the logs from people's ISA runs. 30-40-50k plus from Explosions alone. In that (admittedly anomalous) 223K run, 107K of the damage (or was it 117?) was from Explosions alone.
Prove it? What do you want me to prove? They are doing ridiculously high amounts of damage. There are logs readily available that show it. Ask in any of of the DPS channels how much damage people are getting from them. I've already shown screenshots of them doing more damage than an entire player hull.
I see the usual suspects have no comments so far on that little video...they couldn't even answer my simple question back then, they sure aren't going to be able to answer it after that little video.
F'ing millions of DPS...go ahead...I dare meimeitoo, seaofsorrows, or anyone else to be able to call that balanced...to be able to call a 40 second advanced run balanced. That it is WAI...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I see the usual suspects have no comments so far on that little video...they couldn't even answer my simple question back then, they sure aren't going to be able to answer it after that little video.
F'ing millions of DPS...go ahead...I dare meimeitoo, seaofsorrows, or anyone else to be able to call that balanced...to be able to call a 40 second advanced run balanced. That it is WAI...
To be fair, that video uses the new Science consoles from the Krenim Fleet Holding that are assuredly broken. Estimates put the team in that video in the millions of DPS.
Here's the thing Cryptic don't give a rats TRIBBLE about PvP.
The current Meta of the game is Power Creep/DPS. Its an arms race to sell the next power item to the player. Its the only way they know how to make money.
There's no balance, he packed his bags and left for new horizons years ago.
Now i understand some of you enjoy fighting against a human than a machine and maybe those of you left in PvP community need to write you're own rules on what you can bring into combat when going up against each other.
Today its the Embassy Consoles, Yesterday Ionic Turbulence, Last week Surgical Strikes, A month ago Neutronic Torpedos. Probably tomorrow it will be Specialisation Trees
PvP is not supported by Cryptic. It hasn't been developed since the game launched. Or at least within the last 3 plus years
Game balance is not supported by Cryptic.
Star Trek is not supported by Cryptic its just a pay check.
Stop calling for nerfs because an aspect of the game enjoyed by you, not Supported by the programmer, using powers and abilities not intended to work well in PvP is spoiling you're fun.
Yeah i'm sorry the programmer doesn't cater to you're enjoyment with PvP, I'd love to split PvP and PvE into separate categories where PvE traits, Consoles ect cannot be used in PvP and PvP gets its own set of consoles/weapons ect. But it ain't going to happen under Cryptics or PWE watch.
So you are left using PvE abilities taken into PvP, and yes you are going to have a poor experience if someone brings all his powercreep toys to the arena and knows precisely how to use them. You just have to accept it or as i mentioned make a PvP guide rules within the community of what can and cannot be equipped.
Try to make you're own balance as Cryptic WILL NOT they have proven time and time again they don't understand the mechanics of their own game with some of the content they have released
Not being snarky. Not being snide. But I would love to see how some of those who hit such high DPS fare in PvP.
Because again, without wanting to sound insulting, there is a huge difference between fighting stupid, wallowing, lumbering NPC Borg ships which sit their to be shot at, and fighting players who do their utmost to NOT get shot at.
As of right now, PvE folks in DPS 50K+ would win hands down. Well the person that shoots first wins. Competent PvPers have either moved on or became PvE purists and topping charts in DPS channels. This whole argument is pointless. PvP in this game is dead, it has been dead since delta rising. Anyone pretending to PvP right now is kidding themselves. These consoles have been broken since their introduction but Cryptic is unwilling to do anything about it. So who cares...
I know how this sounds.
Point remains; most of that uber DPS comes from shooting at stupid lumbering NPCs in THE most predictable setting in the game. Many of those big, useless, NPCs don't move at all.
I sincerely doubt that the DPS numbers would be as high fighting a player who is doing their best to avoid being shot.
A few of them do/did PvP and are actually skilled but I do get your point.
It hasn't gotten much traction but DDIS had a great idea about changing the level of PvP zones. I'm all for that. Anything between level 40-50 is a bit more balanced for PvP than level 51-60. The curve on gear is just too great. That would allow for a bit of balancing between PvP and PvE. The thing is it wouldn't stop the problems in PvE. The highest DPSers create their own challenges and the game just gets easier and easier as time goes by for just about everyone. Plasma explosions are a joke. Anything powerful should be player activated not just a random proc, plus it is bugged since they only crit with beams and FAW, not CRF, CSV, BO, SS, or even RRW; just FAW. Maybe Pax needs to see that video again?
Comments
Come to think of it, only too recently the OP request a nerf for the manifold of 'immunites' in game. You can't have it both ways, people: either you're dying too much, or too little. Maybe folks need to make up their mind on which end of the fence they want to set up camp.
So, it's either stay undying forever or get popped in 0.2 seconds?
Makes total sense.
It shouldn't be black and white, explode or zombie. Besides, even with the immunities, you can't use them defensively (or proactively) due to the random nature of these explosions. And the explosions, as demonstrated, are more than capable of popping you instantly, without warning.
Example: Oh look! I happened to catch a Vaper before he decloaked and used his Alpha on me. Phew, good thing I used Rock and Roll in time to avoid his "once every 3 minute" Alpha Strike. I'll carry on. Oh wait, what? A random hit from FAW off of someone's aft Beam Array killed me with an explosion.
Are you simply not understanding the mechanics and gameplay involved here, or are you intentionally trolling? Because if it's the former, I'd be happy to explain it to you. If it's the latter, well...
Regardless, there is no debate here! These consoles are indefensibly broken. The intention was to nerf them from their previous OP state, but they ended up being more powerful than before. There is simply no arguing that they are now working as intended, because they are doing the opposite of what the nerf was intended to do.
End of story.
I just discovered this video. It's.. embarrassing that this made it to Live. (Skip to 1m 30sec to avoid all of the filler and just get to the good stuff)
Link please? PM me if you don't want it out in public.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I just found this on YouTube.
Lol, gg cryptic. Will they ever start to learn?
To put your argument in a better context "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"
Now, aside from the usual bickering of pvpers, its quite true, that the consoles are a tad to good, especially considering they should be a "nerf" of the previously applied plasma-proc. On the other hand, they are not unchallenged anymore.
And on the very other hand, pvp is dead. The pvp-community said that. So, why should one care what happens in pvp? If you dont like it, go play a game were pvp is actually balanced. It never was here, and never will.
I think you got confused with PvE and PvP. If anything, PvP should be removed from the game, as it would impact a way way way smaller community than PvE. And especially the community with the most critique towards the game. Two birds with one stone.
LOL wow... GG.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Those are some of the top guys in the DPS channels. 99% of the players in the dps channels couldn't replicate that level of carnage. Thats nothing more than an example of what can be achieved, but not proof that everyone is doing it
Maybe you missed this part, so I will repeat it for you.
THEY ARE NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. They were changed from the OP IN PVE (keep that in mind...) Burn to the Explosion because the Devs found them to be OP (and they obviously were). Now they are doing more damage than than the original Burn. Does that sound like a nerf that is working properly to you?
NO, IT'S NOT!!!
Now shut up and don't even try taking away our support wheels, you evil PvP whiner!!!
Irrelevant!
P.S. Just to make it perfeclty clear, I was sarcastic in the post before and I still am.
[/quote]
Maybe you missed this part, so I will repeat it for you.
THEY ARE NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. They were changed from the OP IN PVE (keep that in mind...) Burn to the Explosion because the Devs found them to be OP (and they obviously were). Now they are doing more damage than than the original Burn. Does that sound like a nerf that is working properly to you?[/quote]
Broken or not, all i saw was a rant from someone getting TRIBBLE slapped in PvP and calling nerf.
Now the average Joe who doesn't mini-maximise his build, but does have these equipped may on the odd occasion get a lucky one shot in but its the DPS guys who have worked out how to maximise CRTD/CRTH to maximum effect that pull the numbers. Which makes these consoles look so awesome. Joe Pick Up Group which makes up a large portion of the STO player base can't consistantly proc those consoles and nuke everything in sight. To the casual player just plodding along these consoles work as intended. To those who maximise ship potential for DPS only then, yes they look overpowered.
So what do we do reign the consoles in because another small percentage of the player base knows how to use these consoles to maximum effect, which griefs another small percentage of the player base which in turn Penalises the larger player base who have don't see an issue.
If all you see is someone who got "***** slapped" in PvP calling for a nerf", then maybe you should open your eyes. Surprise: People like getting blown in up PvP every now and then, because it means you're not roflstomping through and there's actually a challenge.
If the Average Joe, who you claim to be defending, doesn't see the maximum benefit from these consoles, then they won't be hurt if they're reigned in, by that same logic.
If the Average Joe "only" gets a 10K hit off of these consoles, and they're nerfed so that he only gets something like a 7K hit, is he really being penalized that much?
No, no he is not.
There is actually. The only way you to know how powerful pre nerf and now is to shave all the current power creep by using what is available back then which would have the prenerf in advantage due to the +beam bonus. You base your information from "I got pawned" therefore it is overpowered which is not factual.
Rather than be humble and accept you need to learn something new to counter the plasma consoles, you just refuse and complain left and right at the forums instead.
This is no different from any other power you use in PvP and kills other less knowledgeable players and they dont know how to counter your stuff which they personal deemed as Overpowered since they have no idea how to counter them.
I would believe the OP if the thread actually contained information about apple to apple comparisons rather than apples vs oranges and using variable environment as proof as being OP.
However, the OP didnt. Which makes me believe that the OP just wants it nerf because the OP has no idea to counter the plasma consoles and let the devs do the competing for OP instead of the OP learning to adapt.
Prove it using data. Rather than nosensical I got pawned therefore it is OP.
Meaning you need to use non of the new power creeps that werent available back then pre nerf. In short take away all the variables including pilot skill difference, power creep, etc.
Ok, Pax. You're a knowledgeable player. Go ahead and tell me what counters there are to it.
Spoiler Alert: There are no counters.
But, since you seem to insist that I'm just a fool who doesn't want to learn (which, honestly, is like half of the reason we PvP as opposed to PvE, but I digress), go ahead and tell me what this counter is
What are you talking about "removing the variables"? These are, plain as day, OP.
Look at the logs from people's ISA runs. 30-40-50k plus from Explosions alone. In that (admittedly anomalous) 223K run, 107K of the damage (or was it 117?) was from Explosions alone.
Prove it? What do you want me to prove? They are doing ridiculously high amounts of damage. There are logs readily available that show it. Ask in any of of the DPS channels how much damage people are getting from them. I've already shown screenshots of them doing more damage than an entire player hull.
What more do you want me to show you?
F'ing millions of DPS...go ahead...I dare meimeitoo, seaofsorrows, or anyone else to be able to call that balanced...to be able to call a 40 second advanced run balanced. That it is WAI...
To be fair, that video uses the new Science consoles from the Krenim Fleet Holding that are assuredly broken. Estimates put the team in that video in the millions of DPS.
The current Meta of the game is Power Creep/DPS. Its an arms race to sell the next power item to the player. Its the only way they know how to make money.
There's no balance, he packed his bags and left for new horizons years ago.
Now i understand some of you enjoy fighting against a human than a machine and maybe those of you left in PvP community need to write you're own rules on what you can bring into combat when going up against each other.
Today its the Embassy Consoles, Yesterday Ionic Turbulence, Last week Surgical Strikes, A month ago Neutronic Torpedos. Probably tomorrow it will be Specialisation Trees
PvP is not supported by Cryptic. It hasn't been developed since the game launched. Or at least within the last 3 plus years
Game balance is not supported by Cryptic.
Star Trek is not supported by Cryptic its just a pay check.
Stop calling for nerfs because an aspect of the game enjoyed by you, not Supported by the programmer, using powers and abilities not intended to work well in PvP is spoiling you're fun.
Yeah i'm sorry the programmer doesn't cater to you're enjoyment with PvP, I'd love to split PvP and PvE into separate categories where PvE traits, Consoles ect cannot be used in PvP and PvP gets its own set of consoles/weapons ect. But it ain't going to happen under Cryptics or PWE watch.
So you are left using PvE abilities taken into PvP, and yes you are going to have a poor experience if someone brings all his powercreep toys to the arena and knows precisely how to use them. You just have to accept it or as i mentioned make a PvP guide rules within the community of what can and cannot be equipped.
Try to make you're own balance as Cryptic WILL NOT they have proven time and time again they don't understand the mechanics of their own game with some of the content they have released
It hasn't gotten much traction but DDIS had a great idea about changing the level of PvP zones. I'm all for that. Anything between level 40-50 is a bit more balanced for PvP than level 51-60. The curve on gear is just too great. That would allow for a bit of balancing between PvP and PvE. The thing is it wouldn't stop the problems in PvE. The highest DPSers create their own challenges and the game just gets easier and easier as time goes by for just about everyone. Plasma explosions are a joke. Anything powerful should be player activated not just a random proc, plus it is bugged since they only crit with beams and FAW, not CRF, CSV, BO, SS, or even RRW; just FAW. Maybe Pax needs to see that video again?