And here we are again... back at the same old argument.... DPS....
Did you know there are player out there who do under 5k DPS..... Get this..... On purpose!?!?!
Shocking, right?!? Why would anyone not do all the damage? Maybe it's because some people actually want to be healers or tankers. Perish the thought that a game company would make a game where those three Archetypes exists yet would /never/ want a player to actually play those rolls.... I mean.. It's not like STO created Klingons just so nobody would use them.... Right? RIIIIGHT?
Actually you can... there's a reason Cruisers have the command "attract fire" and why your skill tree has "threat control" you don't have to do significant DPS to pull aggro, you just need to know how to do it.
The only way you can have aggro move via DPS in that case is if someone else has the same amount of threat control you do AND high DPS(which is fine, if you're intentionally trying to "one-man" everything) Threat control as a means of DPS builds was effective in PVP but now that that's mostly gone those builds are filtering into PvE and all the trash-talking elitism that goes with them, sadly.
And here we are again... back at the same old argument.... DPS....
Did you know there are player out there who do under 5k DPS..... Get this..... On purpose!?!?!
Shocking, right?!? Why would anyone not do all the damage? Maybe it's because some people actually want to be healers or tankers. Perish the thought that a game company would make a game where those three Archetypes exists yet would /never/ want a player to actually play those rolls.... I mean.. It's not like STO created Klingons just so nobody would use them.... Right? RIIIIGHT?
Actually you can... there's a reason Cruisers have the command "attract fire" and why your skill tree has "threat control" you don't have to do significant DPS to pull aggro, you just need to know how to do it.
The only way you can have aggro move via DPS in that case is if someone else has the same amount of threat control you do AND high DPS(which is fine, if you're intentionally trying to "one-man" everything) Threat control as a means of DPS builds was effective in PVP but now that that's mostly gone those builds are filtering into PvE and all the trash-talking elitism that goes with them, sadly.
edit: Yes, I thought I'd stopped posting yesterday - but it's a morning habit I need to break, and I simply hate misinformation being spread.
Thank you for posting that Virusdancer. This is very interesting indeed and something new to me.
And on the subject of you leaving, I hope it isn't permanent. I for one value your posts because they are very concise, backed up by facts and very informative.
On a slightly askew aside to this, I had a 'fun' pug game of advanced swords yesterday where someone actually parsed the dps of the event and later told us we were underperforming
..needless to say, the one who parsed it was top of the list as all they did was shoot mobs while the rest of us did the actual mission...
I'm an Arc user? Yeah, right..I'd rather eat a chainsaw, blade first
On a slightly askew aside to this, I had a 'fun' pug game of advanced swords yesterday where someone actually parsed the dps of the event and later told us we were underperforming
..needless to say, the one who parsed it was top of the list as all they did was shoot mobs while the rest of us did the actual mission...
At Brotherhood advance, You dont need dps until the objective is to kill the boss. It is basically the same as the Borg disconnect, you can faceroll kill thats assuming your group has that kind of dps or avoid killing and tag. In the end, you still need a certain level of dps to kill the boss and the dps minimum requirements would depend on the level of difficulty.
It is hard to tell who is underperforming when there is no video and the basis is hearsay or your word for it. If you had a parse for it, I can tell you if you need that players DPS or not. Or the 4 of you can carry the DPS load at the end or the 4 of you have achieve the minimum requirement to complete the advance mission.
Now, is it the same mission as the Borg mission talked about in this thread by the OP? Of course not.
I don't know about being under 5K on purpose, even when tanking, healing, or sci.
I've been hitting 10K+ on every ship I fly for years now, no matter what role I'm playing.
But I don't freak out when I'm in a PUG and things go south. If I join a PUG I expect to be carrying dead weight.
Hel... Since the crafting revamp I haven't upgraded my gear and I still average around 20k in my "real" ships (Finally broke 30K in my Recluse!!!). I need to buckle down and choose a ship to upgrade the gear on, or soon I'm going to end up one of the ones being carried...
Edit: Also, on the topic of what affects threat... It seems as tho range might have something to do with it, but with all the flashing lights and whistles going off in combat its one of those things that I'd never be able to accurately "parse" out
Edit2: Got to read that post on threat mechanics... I was right, tho apparently late to the party =P. Sorry I've recently gone thru a major move so I've not been keeping up on things like I used to...
Post edited by kimmym on
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I average about 3k DPS on my vesta. But I'm not doing Pure DPS, I'm doing Damage Over Time. Drag the fight out as long as I can until my fleet mates can head over to me and then I rotate to the next mob. I play a support role. I don't need DPS to be effective with my fleet runs.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I average about 3k DPS on my vesta. But I'm not doing Pure DPS, I'm doing Damage Over Time. Drag the fight out as long as I can until my fleet mates can head over to me and then I rotate to the next mob. I play a support role. I don't need DPS to be effective with my fleet runs.
I'm afraid that kind of thinking is the reason many think you aren't helping the team. You admit to doing 3k DPS. Have you tried to maximize that more?
There's not too many elite space missions. I'm thinking mostly of Viscous and Korfez which is mainly what I played. Viscous elite really only requires 5000 dps (or less). If you are engaging the Undine you are just wasting time.
Not to mention ground combat. I run those available in elite and those which aren’t in advanced. If you break it down to a critter by critter comparison the elite ones are probably a bit stronger but nothing of consequences. All in all many of the available missions in elite seem to be easier than others are on advanced but what else is new in this horribly unbalanced game.
If more peeps would queue up in light of the fail abandoning all would be fine for me. At least pugging remains exciting when a supply of random players is available. Two friends and I sat 10 mins in kaga queue yesterday before we quead for iga as well which poped. One pug was a total fail triggering everything, the other one was as good as us so we came out of it with 7:43 mins to spear on the fail timer. Was fun and the fight almost felt elite. We seem to set de difficulty by ourselves all the time anyway, much more than Cryptic does.
I personally believe Korfez requires 30,000 team dps. Others claim it's only 20,000. This is a good step up from most advanced missions. I think, really, this thread is about the Borg missions. They are heavily dps gated. Others don't really require much if any dps at all: viscous, borg disconnected, azure, and others I'm too tired to think of right now.
As far as Korfez is concerned I did elite a few times with my old NWS gang, or what’s left of it (THX Cryptic). I don’t recall anybody of us doing even close to 20k DPS but the mission worked just fine because the team was diceplined.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I average about 3k DPS on my vesta. But I'm not doing Pure DPS, I'm doing Damage Over Time. Drag the fight out as long as I can until my fleet mates can head over to me and then I rotate to the next mob. I play a support role. I don't need DPS to be effective with my fleet runs.
Hrmm, using Google and looking at a cached version of the post from April 10th, 2015; there's the following...
Player A) 47,518 (49.956%)
Player Me) 15,182 (16.047%)
Player C) 13,261 (13.83%)
Player D) 9,756 (10.12%)
Player E) 9,899 (10.046%)
Attacks In %
Player A) 11.824% Player Me) 42.986%
Player C) 24.399%
Player D) 7.214%
Player E) 13.577%
Damage In (%) / BaseDamage In (%)
Player A) 92,039 (5.526%) / 248,982 (4.574%) Player Me) 718,346 (43.126%) / 2,539,644 (46.656%)
Player C) 341,161 (20.482%) / 1,313,601 (24.132%)
Player D) 116,757 (7.01%) / 320,672 (5.891%)
Player E) 397,388 (23.857%) / 1,020,421 (18.746%)
Heal Out (%) / Heal In (%)
Player A) 60,069 (3.16%) / 74,660 (3.94%) Player Me) 957,816 (50.38%) / 779,234 (41.121%)
Player C) 476,934 (25.086%) / 568,727 (30.012%)
Player D) 90,276 (4.748%) / 169,991 (8.971%)
Player E) 316,077 (16.625%) / 302,386 (15.957%)
No doubt Player A doing the damage they did made it easier for the rest of the group - dead stuff doesn't shoot back. Notice how few hits Player A took though, eh? They were in a Sheshar, there were three other cruisers, and my D'Kyr.
Heh, Player E almost broke 10k with a mega rainbow build - Neutronic Torp, Kinetic Cutting Beam, Antiproton Array, Nukara Hyper Tetryon DBB, Nukara Web Mine, Romulan Plasma Array (probably Experimental), Experimental Proton Weapon, Gravimetric Photon Torp...hrmm, as an Eng at that. Not sure which Odyssey they were flying.
Hrmm, so that group...
Player A) Sheshar
Player Me) D'Kyr
Player C) T6 Galaxy (don't know if it was Fleet)
Player D) T6 Galaxy (don't know if it was Fleet)
Player E) Odyssey variant
Hrmm, but anyway...somewhere between the overly defensive build I had there and something like the following...
...I'm sure folks can find something to make them happy in a Sci Vessel.
Heh, cause there were all sorts of things wrong with my build and I flew it like I'd never flown a ship before.../facepalm. Heck, even forgot to switch out the Talaxian Eng for the Nausicaan Eng...just threw it together and off I went...wheeeee.
It was just a quickly thrown together T5U D'Kyr build, where I even goofed on some things putting it together. I was playing a "support role"...actually, multiple roles. Trying to hold aggro (held almost 43% even with somebody doing 3x my DPS and the only multiple target attacks being TS1 on a slow torp, GW, and RTBR), tossing heals (50.4% out/41.1% in), working the Gravity Well and Reversed Tractor Beam Repulsors...a crappy build with a crappy pilot.
I included the link to fatman592's at the time 30k+ Dauntless for folks looking for more of a DPS Sci build...and, if the topic ever came up - I'd usually direct folks to him for advice (since I don't do build advice (obviously, with that crappy build I had for the D'Kyr...lol)).
So you're there with a Vesta, right? It's got a hangar. Even just keeping pets out, you're looking at more than 3k DPS...that's just pets...not using any Sci Magic for damage, not using any weapons, not using Photonic, Fleet Support, Nimbus or whatever. Well, it depends on the map - obviously - but with ISA being the common target dummy for DPS, just flying around near the various engagements and dropping out the pets from the hangar - you're looking at more than 3k DPS. Perhaps you were talking about 3k for another map though.
That D'Kyr build...wasn't built for DPS. Any DPS it did, just happened...cause that level of DPS just kind of happens...somebody working toward DPS, it's going to get more into things like the build fatman592 had. That was thrown together to tackle the Nanites, debuff targets, provide healing, and that was pretty much it.
If somebody's doing 3k in a Vesta (again, in looking at something like ISA)...they've got to be massively sabotaging their DPS on purpose. They're sitting at the spawn while watching TV, they're reading the forums while moving between engagements, they've forgotten to slot their weapons, they decided not to use the hangar, they're...I mean, meh, it would take some effort to try to figure out how somebody could do that little damage.
Is that an elitist thing? It's the kind of blunt truth that some will take as an elitist thing, no doubt. Okay then, so where's the "I'm awesome and you suck!" aspect to what was said there? Well, there's my pointing out that it's a crappy build and I'm a crappy pilot. There's me pointing out that I don't do build advice because I'm not somebody that's good enough to give build advice. And well, yeah, hrmm...it's typically along those lines...end up being called an elitist even if my post is full of references to me being a complete goofball most of the time.
It's not an elitist thing...it's more of a simple..."how?" thing. Meh, and I'm not having much luck trying to find one of my posts discussing all the things that could make the difference between well under 10k and over 100k with the same build (range penalty, subsystem power settings, ability efficiency, dead time between engagements, etc, etc, etc). Cause it's not that difficult to have a ship not even do 10% of the potential depending on how it's flown. So it's more of a "how" thing than any sort of elitist thing. Cause there isn't a thing elite about me, lol...I'm a goofball.
Does it get into the potential discussion of perhaps doing something wrong? I do all sorts of things wrong...otherwise it would have been a case of being up there in the charts with folks, but I was never up there in the charts with folks. Cause I do all sorts of things wrong...but, there are certain things I try to avoid a wee bit...and that's usually more than enough to make any of the minimum requirements for Advanced content.
Folks have a tendency to make it about inflated egos...but I've generally seen it as a case of fragile egos. Cause it's usually not somebody with an inflated ego that's ticking off folks, it's usually just some average player asking stuff that ends up ticking off somebody with a fragile ego.
It's trippy, I've even joked with folks that changed the way they fly (no build changes, just looking at their pathing through the run, their positioning, their range, etc) that suddenly found themselves doing 6-9k DPS that they were screwed...cause they were now part of the elitist douche nozzle group. Yep, in a game where folks are doing over 100k...somebody doing 8k might as well be doing 80k to somebody doing 1-3k with their fragile egos.
It's also kind of old. Cause I've always been a TRIBBLE the folks with their personal requirements for DPS...they want everybody doing 20-30k for a run that doesn't even require 7k from somebody...well, TRIBBLE them! But in the end, if the run is looking for 7k or so from folks...it's pretty straightforward that folks should be doing something worth 7k in the run, yeah? That's not a personal requirement...it's a content requirement. Pointing that out is not elitism. It's like pointing to the channel up button on a TV remote...it's just what it is.
It's folks that add all sorts of emotion to it and make it some sort of thing other than it is. I don't know how to pilot an airplane. Oh noes, how crushing...how shall I go on? I can't do 30k DPS...it's the end of the world!!! Meh, not really. Can't do 8k DPS? End of the world? No...just so much fragile ego and melodramatic nonsense that takes place.
Oh sure, there are the elitist douche nozzles out there. Hell, I'm pretty sure the OP's somebody that I got ticked off about in a run some time back...going on like they were God's Gift to DPS in a run - then looking at their DPS, and well, it was a /facepalm moment. Kind of went back and forth a bit, heh, possibly breaking some of the forum rules in the discussion there (I'm not a fan of inflated egos, and it tends to get me in trouble)...but in the end, it basically just boiled down to basic frustration rather than them thinking they were some sort of DPS wizard. Months later, and yeah, the OP created this thread...cause, it's basically a frustration that's gone on for years. The channel up button on the remote increases the channel number...simple...straightforward...but if turns the TV off, increases the volume, opens the menu, etc, etc, etc - and you're stuck with that remote, that frustration will build. 5k's lowballing it. It's not an elitist thing...it's a personal thing, since it's lowballing - it's what the OP figures demonstrates somebody having shown an effort. It's also the range that usually comes up...that 4-5k...and somebody might not be hitting the content requirements and there might be some stuff that's off, but it gives the appearance of somebody trying. Below that...hard not to picture the person isn't just leeching, trolling, or that they're not just afk on autopilot. Cause it's a "how?" thing...not an elitist thing. It's a disbelief thing.
Meh, this is rambling all over the place now...this thread needs a song. I hate the YouTube embedding, but wheeeeee....
And on the subject of you leaving, I hope it isn't permanent. I for one value your posts because they are very concise, backed up by facts and very informative.
Concise? Me? Lol, heh.
As far as leaving, I actually uninstalled the game like three weeks ago because of that Twitter garbage that took place. I've hung around for a bit doing some PM stuff, which has led to some posting while waiting on replies...but otherwise, well, yeah - I'm not here anymore.
Besides, as time went on - my posts showed more and more frustration. A year or two back, I was pretty much just in the PvP forums, Builds forums, Tribble/Redshirt forums, and Gameplay Bugs forums talking mechanics and the like. The less folks talked about that stuff or the more they posted it in General Discussion, the more I got involved in other threads which would have been far better for me to have avoided. Hell, these threads...they're modbait for me, cause the sheer amount of misinformation, excuses, attacks/scapegoating that goes on...I'd usually lose it at a certain point, and get one of those pesky messages from a mod.
Heh, the forums just ended up being a habit while doing other things...and well, as time goes by with not playing, anything I've got to say would just become less and less relevant anyway. /shrug
edit: Heh, this post needs a song too (so irritating)...
I'm no dps chaser or master. However my first character flies vesta. I briefly got to 30,000 before the doping nerf - now is probably like 18,000. But if you just use scorpions and GW3 and gravimetric torp with say 3 embassy consoles and decent aux power you should hit 10,000. I would advise 4 embassy consoles with the crafted console that adds shield+ particles. If you have sci vesta and add Graga with double repulsors you should top 20,000. This is not including energy weapons.
When doping was around, plasma burn and GW tied for 2nd for me with damage with mini grav well from the torpedo usually first.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Not to mention ground combat. I run those available in elite and those which aren’t in advanced. If you break it down to a critter by critter comparison the elite ones are probably a bit stronger but nothing of consequences. All in all many of the available missions in elite seem to be easier than others are on advanced but what else is new in this horribly unbalanced game.
For an apple to apple comparison, In order to exactly know the difference you got to parse the completed advance difficulty of the same version and elite version of the same STF than subjective say it is difference like you and sheldoncooper. For the OPs borg, you got publicly available HSE parses which means all you got to do is parse HSA so you will personally know rather subjective say it like you are addressing the difference now. If you want you can further it by parsing Normal to really know the difference between level of difficulty.
Comparing VCE, Korfez, BDE is not an apple to apple comparsion when you compare it to other advance STFs like borg STFs which is the OPs is talking about.
As far as Korfez is concerned I did elite a few times with my old NWS gang, or what’s left of it (THX Cryptic). I don’t recall anybody of us doing even close to 20k DPS but the mission worked just fine because the team was diceplined.
Different missions, different DPS requirements. Different difficulty of the same STF, different DPS requirements. If you want comparison of elite and advance, you got parse the same STF different difficulty rather than guess it.
how about instead of telling players not to play, the veterans, the people who know how to make good builds helps the less knowledgeable players.
No one comes into this game as an expert. And the only way to learn how to do STF's and queues is to run them. Even with high DPS, if you don't know what you are supposed to do, you'll f**k up the STF regardless.
So yes better players, give advice, hell even direct players who know less about builds to resources or guides they can learn from.
but literally telling people to just not play because they aren't as good as you or don't have you DPS is not only elitist, its petty. Sorry, this game doesn't exist solely for the experts. And if you don't like pugging, then take your own advice...don't do it lol.
No one comes into this game as an expert. And the only way to learn how to do STF's and queues is to run them. Even with high DPS, if you don't know what you are supposed to do, you'll f**k up the STF regardless.
Yep, if folks would spend time running Normal to learn the objectives so they know what to do...things would be much better.
but literally telling people to just not play because they aren't as good as you or don't have you DPS is not only elitist, its petty. Sorry, this game doesn't exist solely for the experts. And if you don't like pugging, then take your own advice...don't do it lol.
5k? Expert? A 2 hangar boat can put out over 10k without the use of weapons or any damaging abilities.
No one comes into this game as an expert. And the only way to learn how to do STF's and queues is to run them. Even with high DPS, if you don't know what you are supposed to do, you'll f**k up the STF regardless.
Yep, if folks would spend time running Normal to learn the objectives so they know what to do...things would be much better.
but literally telling people to just not play because they aren't as good as you or don't have you DPS is not only elitist, its petty. Sorry, this game doesn't exist solely for the experts. And if you don't like pugging, then take your own advice...don't do it lol.
5k? Expert? A 2 hangar boat can put out over 10k without the use of weapons or any damaging abilities.
You forgot a video this time VD! Otherwise, you pretty much hit what I would have said!
Heh, the videos were an "embedded" protest against not having the option to disable embedding. But I'd started not doing it, the posts where they show an edit where I begrudgingly went back to add the video, and somebody mentioned it in another thread - so - yeah, I just stopped doing it.
If somebody's interested in videos though, there's always this...
Here's a thought. People do STFs on advanced for the items needed for reputation gear. I never did them until recently and frankly gave up on advanced mode anyway.
A way that would solve SOME of this would be to have battle zones like the Undine space zone as an example. That's how I grinded out my Counter Command gear on multiple toons.
With Delta and Iconian reputation though I have yet to find a similar method to gaining the items for these factions other than STFs. My experience with them though is it's easier to do 1 item via mark turn in a day as even on easy I see a lot of borg disconnected fails.
As other's have pointed out. If you want a DPS and set configs use the channels and play with the rest of the WOW kiddies. There used to be a time when MMO's people just got together with whoever was around and went in to see what could be done for the fun of it and didn't cry because X player didn't have Y setup.
Personally if I do a pickup group or raid or anything like that I know that it can go either way and don't get worked up about it unless there's something that's really obvious like 4 people at one emitter in the borg disconnected and another soloing. I've seen 2 decent can hold one and 3 less ideal can hold a 2nd and on normal mode can achieve all the goals with no problems. Deposits 2 EC and moves on.
Here's a thought. People do STFs on advanced for the items needed for reputation gear. I never did them until recently and frankly gave up on advanced mode anyway.
A way that would solve SOME of this would be to have battle zones like the Undine space zone as an example. That's how I grinded out my Counter Command gear on multiple toons.
If you refuse to compete or improve at advance level, There is normal for gears. There is even a reputation project that can transformer those BNPs from Marks.
The problem stems really from players insisting they are entitled to be at advance even though they dont belong at advance, refuse to improve and even though many alternatives exists.
As other's have pointed out. If you want a DPS and set configs use the channels and play with the rest of the WOW kiddies. There used to be a time when MMO's people just got together with whoever was around and went in to see what could be done for the fun of it and didn't cry because X player didn't have Y setup.
Fun is relative. Having high DPS doesnt mean it aint fun. It is your personal opinion that any good or better than ones personal capabilities isnt fun. Another player can do high DPS but is having fun since is capable of doing even the hardest elite faster than an average player doing advance. You can do all sorts of setup to do the minimum requirement for advance setup. The question really is capability. It always point back to the player.
All this repetitve false logic of fun posts, gears, setup is getting old and VD and I have to point out the fallacy of their "fun" logic fallacy.
Here's a thought. People do STFs on advanced for the items needed for reputation gear. I never did them until recently and frankly gave up on advanced mode anyway.
A way that would solve SOME of this would be to have battle zones like the Undine space zone as an example. That's how I grinded out my Counter Command gear on multiple toons.
With Delta and Iconian reputation though I have yet to find a similar method to gaining the items for these factions other than STFs. My experience with them though is it's easier to do 1 item via mark turn in a day as even on easy I see a lot of borg disconnected fails.
As other's have pointed out. If you want a DPS and set configs use the channels and play with the rest of the WOW kiddies. There used to be a time when MMO's people just got together with whoever was around and went in to see what could be done for the fun of it and didn't cry because X player didn't have Y setup.
Personally if I do a pickup group or raid or anything like that I know that it can go either way and don't get worked up about it unless there's something that's really obvious like 4 people at one emitter in the borg disconnected and another soloing. I've seen 2 decent can hold one and 3 less ideal can hold a 2nd and on normal mode can achieve all the goals with no problems. Deposits 2 EC and moves on.
You must be kind of new, because omega marks can be obtained on Defera, while Iconian marks and even Delta marks I believe, is obtainable on Kobali prime!
So, they have zones where these marks can be obtained by not doing STF's.
Nukara has Nukara homeworld, same as Romulan has New Romulus.
Comments
http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/12429760/
edit: Yes, I thought I'd stopped posting yesterday - but it's a morning habit I need to break, and I simply hate misinformation being spread.
Thank you for posting that Virusdancer. This is very interesting indeed and something new to me.
And on the subject of you leaving, I hope it isn't permanent. I for one value your posts because they are very concise, backed up by facts and very informative.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
..needless to say, the one who parsed it was top of the list as all they did was shoot mobs while the rest of us did the actual mission...
I'm an Arc user? Yeah, right..I'd rather eat a chainsaw, blade first
At Brotherhood advance, You dont need dps until the objective is to kill the boss. It is basically the same as the Borg disconnect, you can faceroll kill thats assuming your group has that kind of dps or avoid killing and tag. In the end, you still need a certain level of dps to kill the boss and the dps minimum requirements would depend on the level of difficulty.
It is hard to tell who is underperforming when there is no video and the basis is hearsay or your word for it. If you had a parse for it, I can tell you if you need that players DPS or not. Or the 4 of you can carry the DPS load at the end or the 4 of you have achieve the minimum requirement to complete the advance mission.
Now, is it the same mission as the Borg mission talked about in this thread by the OP? Of course not.
I've been hitting 10K+ on every ship I fly for years now, no matter what role I'm playing.
But I don't freak out when I'm in a PUG and things go south. If I join a PUG I expect to be carrying dead weight.
Hel... Since the crafting revamp I haven't upgraded my gear and I still average around 20k in my "real" ships (Finally broke 30K in my Recluse!!!). I need to buckle down and choose a ship to upgrade the gear on, or soon I'm going to end up one of the ones being carried...
Edit: Also, on the topic of what affects threat... It seems as tho range might have something to do with it, but with all the flashing lights and whistles going off in combat its one of those things that I'd never be able to accurately "parse" out
Edit2: Got to read that post on threat mechanics... I was right, tho apparently late to the party =P. Sorry I've recently gone thru a major move so I've not been keeping up on things like I used to...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I'm afraid that kind of thinking is the reason many think you aren't helping the team. You admit to doing 3k DPS. Have you tried to maximize that more?
Not to mention ground combat. I run those available in elite and those which aren’t in advanced. If you break it down to a critter by critter comparison the elite ones are probably a bit stronger but nothing of consequences. All in all many of the available missions in elite seem to be easier than others are on advanced but what else is new in this horribly unbalanced game.
If more peeps would queue up in light of the fail abandoning all would be fine for me. At least pugging remains exciting when a supply of random players is available. Two friends and I sat 10 mins in kaga queue yesterday before we quead for iga as well which poped. One pug was a total fail triggering everything, the other one was as good as us so we came out of it with 7:43 mins to spear on the fail timer. Was fun and the fight almost felt elite. We seem to set de difficulty by ourselves all the time anyway, much more than Cryptic does.
As far as Korfez is concerned I did elite a few times with my old NWS gang, or what’s left of it (THX Cryptic). I don’t recall anybody of us doing even close to 20k DPS but the mission worked just fine because the team was diceplined.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Hrmm, using Google and looking at a cached version of the post from April 10th, 2015; there's the following...
...and here's a link to the cached post: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_zD7CeEKxgwJ:sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=23305281+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
It was just a quickly thrown together T5U D'Kyr build, where I even goofed on some things putting it together. I was playing a "support role"...actually, multiple roles. Trying to hold aggro (held almost 43% even with somebody doing 3x my DPS and the only multiple target attacks being TS1 on a slow torp, GW, and RTBR), tossing heals (50.4% out/41.1% in), working the Gravity Well and Reversed Tractor Beam Repulsors...a crappy build with a crappy pilot.
I included the link to fatman592's at the time 30k+ Dauntless for folks looking for more of a DPS Sci build...and, if the topic ever came up - I'd usually direct folks to him for advice (since I don't do build advice (obviously, with that crappy build I had for the D'Kyr...lol)).
So you're there with a Vesta, right? It's got a hangar. Even just keeping pets out, you're looking at more than 3k DPS...that's just pets...not using any Sci Magic for damage, not using any weapons, not using Photonic, Fleet Support, Nimbus or whatever. Well, it depends on the map - obviously - but with ISA being the common target dummy for DPS, just flying around near the various engagements and dropping out the pets from the hangar - you're looking at more than 3k DPS. Perhaps you were talking about 3k for another map though.
That D'Kyr build...wasn't built for DPS. Any DPS it did, just happened...cause that level of DPS just kind of happens...somebody working toward DPS, it's going to get more into things like the build fatman592 had. That was thrown together to tackle the Nanites, debuff targets, provide healing, and that was pretty much it.
If somebody's doing 3k in a Vesta (again, in looking at something like ISA)...they've got to be massively sabotaging their DPS on purpose. They're sitting at the spawn while watching TV, they're reading the forums while moving between engagements, they've forgotten to slot their weapons, they decided not to use the hangar, they're...I mean, meh, it would take some effort to try to figure out how somebody could do that little damage.
Is that an elitist thing? It's the kind of blunt truth that some will take as an elitist thing, no doubt. Okay then, so where's the "I'm awesome and you suck!" aspect to what was said there? Well, there's my pointing out that it's a crappy build and I'm a crappy pilot. There's me pointing out that I don't do build advice because I'm not somebody that's good enough to give build advice. And well, yeah, hrmm...it's typically along those lines...end up being called an elitist even if my post is full of references to me being a complete goofball most of the time.
It's not an elitist thing...it's more of a simple..."how?" thing. Meh, and I'm not having much luck trying to find one of my posts discussing all the things that could make the difference between well under 10k and over 100k with the same build (range penalty, subsystem power settings, ability efficiency, dead time between engagements, etc, etc, etc). Cause it's not that difficult to have a ship not even do 10% of the potential depending on how it's flown. So it's more of a "how" thing than any sort of elitist thing. Cause there isn't a thing elite about me, lol...I'm a goofball.
Does it get into the potential discussion of perhaps doing something wrong? I do all sorts of things wrong...otherwise it would have been a case of being up there in the charts with folks, but I was never up there in the charts with folks. Cause I do all sorts of things wrong...but, there are certain things I try to avoid a wee bit...and that's usually more than enough to make any of the minimum requirements for Advanced content.
Folks have a tendency to make it about inflated egos...but I've generally seen it as a case of fragile egos. Cause it's usually not somebody with an inflated ego that's ticking off folks, it's usually just some average player asking stuff that ends up ticking off somebody with a fragile ego.
It's trippy, I've even joked with folks that changed the way they fly (no build changes, just looking at their pathing through the run, their positioning, their range, etc) that suddenly found themselves doing 6-9k DPS that they were screwed...cause they were now part of the elitist douche nozzle group. Yep, in a game where folks are doing over 100k...somebody doing 8k might as well be doing 80k to somebody doing 1-3k with their fragile egos.
It's also kind of old. Cause I've always been a TRIBBLE the folks with their personal requirements for DPS...they want everybody doing 20-30k for a run that doesn't even require 7k from somebody...well, TRIBBLE them! But in the end, if the run is looking for 7k or so from folks...it's pretty straightforward that folks should be doing something worth 7k in the run, yeah? That's not a personal requirement...it's a content requirement. Pointing that out is not elitism. It's like pointing to the channel up button on a TV remote...it's just what it is.
It's folks that add all sorts of emotion to it and make it some sort of thing other than it is. I don't know how to pilot an airplane. Oh noes, how crushing...how shall I go on? I can't do 30k DPS...it's the end of the world!!! Meh, not really. Can't do 8k DPS? End of the world? No...just so much fragile ego and melodramatic nonsense that takes place.
Oh sure, there are the elitist douche nozzles out there. Hell, I'm pretty sure the OP's somebody that I got ticked off about in a run some time back...going on like they were God's Gift to DPS in a run - then looking at their DPS, and well, it was a /facepalm moment. Kind of went back and forth a bit, heh, possibly breaking some of the forum rules in the discussion there (I'm not a fan of inflated egos, and it tends to get me in trouble)...but in the end, it basically just boiled down to basic frustration rather than them thinking they were some sort of DPS wizard. Months later, and yeah, the OP created this thread...cause, it's basically a frustration that's gone on for years. The channel up button on the remote increases the channel number...simple...straightforward...but if turns the TV off, increases the volume, opens the menu, etc, etc, etc - and you're stuck with that remote, that frustration will build. 5k's lowballing it. It's not an elitist thing...it's a personal thing, since it's lowballing - it's what the OP figures demonstrates somebody having shown an effort. It's also the range that usually comes up...that 4-5k...and somebody might not be hitting the content requirements and there might be some stuff that's off, but it gives the appearance of somebody trying. Below that...hard not to picture the person isn't just leeching, trolling, or that they're not just afk on autopilot. Cause it's a "how?" thing...not an elitist thing. It's a disbelief thing.
Meh, this is rambling all over the place now...this thread needs a song. I hate the YouTube embedding, but wheeeeee....
...wait, is that elitist? Or is it just a bit of fed-uppedness?
Concise? Me? Lol, heh.
As far as leaving, I actually uninstalled the game like three weeks ago because of that Twitter garbage that took place. I've hung around for a bit doing some PM stuff, which has led to some posting while waiting on replies...but otherwise, well, yeah - I'm not here anymore.
Besides, as time went on - my posts showed more and more frustration. A year or two back, I was pretty much just in the PvP forums, Builds forums, Tribble/Redshirt forums, and Gameplay Bugs forums talking mechanics and the like. The less folks talked about that stuff or the more they posted it in General Discussion, the more I got involved in other threads which would have been far better for me to have avoided. Hell, these threads...they're modbait for me, cause the sheer amount of misinformation, excuses, attacks/scapegoating that goes on...I'd usually lose it at a certain point, and get one of those pesky messages from a mod.
Heh, the forums just ended up being a habit while doing other things...and well, as time goes by with not playing, anything I've got to say would just become less and less relevant anyway. /shrug
edit: Heh, this post needs a song too (so irritating)...
When doping was around, plasma burn and GW tied for 2nd for me with damage with mini grav well from the torpedo usually first.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
For an apple to apple comparison, In order to exactly know the difference you got to parse the completed advance difficulty of the same version and elite version of the same STF than subjective say it is difference like you and sheldoncooper. For the OPs borg, you got publicly available HSE parses which means all you got to do is parse HSA so you will personally know rather subjective say it like you are addressing the difference now. If you want you can further it by parsing Normal to really know the difference between level of difficulty.
Comparing VCE, Korfez, BDE is not an apple to apple comparsion when you compare it to other advance STFs like borg STFs which is the OPs is talking about.
Different missions, different DPS requirements. Different difficulty of the same STF, different DPS requirements. If you want comparison of elite and advance, you got parse the same STF different difficulty rather than guess it.
No one comes into this game as an expert. And the only way to learn how to do STF's and queues is to run them. Even with high DPS, if you don't know what you are supposed to do, you'll f**k up the STF regardless.
So yes better players, give advice, hell even direct players who know less about builds to resources or guides they can learn from.
but literally telling people to just not play because they aren't as good as you or don't have you DPS is not only elitist, its petty. Sorry, this game doesn't exist solely for the experts. And if you don't like pugging, then take your own advice...don't do it lol.
Something that they have been doing for as many years as I can remember. So it's not an instead of sort of thing, they're doing both.
Funny how folks like to ignore that...
Yep, if folks would spend time running Normal to learn the objectives so they know what to do...things would be much better.
Funny how folks like to ignore that...
Something they have been doing for as many years as I can remember.
Funny how folks like to ignore that...
5k? Expert? A 2 hangar boat can put out over 10k without the use of weapons or any damaging abilities.
5k doesn't equal 50k...doesn't equal 75k...doesn't equal 100k.
Funny how folks like to ignore that...
You forgot a video this time VD! Otherwise, you pretty much hit what I would have said!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Heh, the videos were an "embedded" protest against not having the option to disable embedding. But I'd started not doing it, the posts where they show an edit where I begrudgingly went back to add the video, and somebody mentioned it in another thread - so - yeah, I just stopped doing it.
If somebody's interested in videos though, there's always this...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAAgaD-zbotq2By_2-8qqIg/videos
...Thissler's channel over on YouTube.
edit: FFS, it's just a link...not a video...that's so freaking annoying. I hate these forums.
edit2: Let me see if I can't find a link that doesn't eff' up like that.
Here, this will get folks there: http://thissler.com/
A way that would solve SOME of this would be to have battle zones like the Undine space zone as an example. That's how I grinded out my Counter Command gear on multiple toons.
With Delta and Iconian reputation though I have yet to find a similar method to gaining the items for these factions other than STFs. My experience with them though is it's easier to do 1 item via mark turn in a day as even on easy I see a lot of borg disconnected fails.
As other's have pointed out. If you want a DPS and set configs use the channels and play with the rest of the WOW kiddies. There used to be a time when MMO's people just got together with whoever was around and went in to see what could be done for the fun of it and didn't cry because X player didn't have Y setup.
Personally if I do a pickup group or raid or anything like that I know that it can go either way and don't get worked up about it unless there's something that's really obvious like 4 people at one emitter in the borg disconnected and another soloing. I've seen 2 decent can hold one and 3 less ideal can hold a 2nd and on normal mode can achieve all the goals with no problems. Deposits 2 EC and moves on.
If you refuse to compete or improve at advance level, There is normal for gears. There is even a reputation project that can transformer those BNPs from Marks.
The problem stems really from players insisting they are entitled to be at advance even though they dont belong at advance, refuse to improve and even though many alternatives exists.
Fun is relative. Having high DPS doesnt mean it aint fun. It is your personal opinion that any good or better than ones personal capabilities isnt fun. Another player can do high DPS but is having fun since is capable of doing even the hardest elite faster than an average player doing advance. You can do all sorts of setup to do the minimum requirement for advance setup. The question really is capability. It always point back to the player.
All this repetitve false logic of fun posts, gears, setup is getting old and VD and I have to point out the fallacy of their "fun" logic fallacy.
You must be kind of new, because omega marks can be obtained on Defera, while Iconian marks and even Delta marks I believe, is obtainable on Kobali prime!
So, they have zones where these marks can be obtained by not doing STF's.
Nukara has Nukara homeworld, same as Romulan has New Romulus.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!