They had this a long time ago in the original Crystalline Entity Fleet Action and also the Undine Fleet Action I believe. It was removed because people felt outed.
well, maybe they should return it for advanced/elite.
To some, its obvious players who can't handle Advanced shouldn't be there.
Unfortunately, since the game lets them queue without qualification and doesn't provide any performance feedback, it's anything but obvious to those players themselves. There's little point in telling them, they'll just ignore you. And its even more pointless to quote DPS figures at them because they don't have any idea of their DPS, the game doesn't tell them that.
They'll come anyway and blame everyone else when the mission fails. Which is why Advanced is getting dumbed down to Normal+ soon. Apparently that's preferable to making the beginners play Normal until they're good enought to handle a game you don't automatically win just by showing up.
There's this little thing called, built in performance brain meter, it's when your brain tells you, either you are doing awesome/well/good/ok/meh/sucks.
If their brain cannot register one of these parameters, than they need have their heads examined immediately!
I means seriously, how hard is it for someone to tell they suck, when they cannot stop ANY single advance enemy within 1 min.?
I PUGed a KSA the other day and came across an Oddy that couldn't Boil water with his phasers. He kept going after probes which I was handling. I politely asked him to focus on the trandformer which he did without complaint and I helped him in between probes. Sometimes being nice goes a long way.
well after they changed the way advanced que reward i knew it was going to get worse. but i tried pugging a few anyways. and i was correct it was horrible.
now i dont play fed so no way to help them even if i wanted to help federation scum. But on KDF side i have started publicly announcing the Klingon academy fleet.
our goal is not uber high end dps. or pvp killing machines neither of which are a bad thing and either or both are not discouraged. but the Primary goal is just make KDF players willing to learn viable players. so far since i started the fleet i have picked up only 2 experienced people willing to help teach new people . but we have recruited 8 other that were actually seeking help and wanted to learn the game .
most were rainbow boats with a few skittles mixed in. consoles that did not match their skills or weapons. and even bridge officer abilities that they did not have a need for like min dispersal with no mines on the boat.
and all have apologized for being so stupid. or bad. i tell them its not really their fault the game has nothing that really tells you these things its mostly all word of mouth and so many people do not want to talk it becoming a real issue.
basically allot of them are horribly bad but they dont even know it. some are willing to learn but few seem willing to actually teach.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
They had this a long time ago in the original Crystalline Entity Fleet Action and also the Undine Fleet Action I believe. It was removed because people felt outed.
i only remember entity showing when you got 1st place not dps. and i think it was the minefield that showed 1st 2nd and 3rd placement but again it didnt actually show the numbers. so the game does have a built in way of tracking this info. its already in the game they just are not using it for reason. imagine how much more dil people would spend on upgrades if they actually knew just how bad they are.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many people refuse to accept the fact that their poor performance negatively affects others.
Resisting the implementation of DPS rankings does not make you a better player, in fact, it limits your ability to make educated changes in hopes of improving.
Those afraid to be outed as bad players simply wish to preserve their comfort as a bad player. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin "The best thing you can do for low DPSers is not making it easy to be a low DPSer, and helping to lead then out of it."
Who's resisting? Almost everyone in this thread (who has addressed it at all) has come out in favor of an in-game, integrated solution.
Very true, we need a way to measure the DPS.
WoW had the DPS chart anyone could access. I used it often in PVP and in group actions. To see how I was doing. Also they had a target dummy where you could beat on. To see what to do and set up your character better. Which both I used often.
If STO had both of these, it would help make better DPSers and players. I know I would use them and get an idea where I'm at.
Other thing is have the levels locked. You can't enter unless your at that min level required. WoW also had this. This game would do better with this as well.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have to agree with this. Instead of ranting and raving about how people aren't meeting other people's "standards", they should be providing advice on how to improve. Its threads like this that make it sound like everyone must learn through osmosis or "GTFO and stop tarnishin' mah win streak wit' yer n00bness". Drives me nuts to see things like that.
Actually Cryptic is adjusting the Advanced objectives because the way they had set it up orignially was WAY TOO MUCH of a difficulty curve for even some veteran players. Instead of a decent slope for Difficulty increase... it was a sheer verticle cliff that only the previously epic "I can do old ISE in 5 minutes with one hand tied behind my back" builds could handle.
Speaking of sponges... I think the reason for the tankyness of NPCs was a response to people celebrating their epic 50k+ builds.
You cut to the core with these three sections. But I will put one cavet on the Advanced sheer cliff thing. They really weren't that hard for a veteran player with even a half way decent build what made them impossible in many cases was the automatic being able to quque for them at what level 50? I did a Delta Recruit and had rare X's on a standard Mogai and guess what I could have queqed for Advanced with that toon. Did this mean that toon could have done the adavnced and had any success? Obviously not but this glitch combined with the revamp of PVE's are exactly what set up the mess they became. And a mission Optional should NEVER be made Mandatory and yet they were but were still being called an optional. These combined with the massive NPC HP increase and adding a clock devestated the queues for pve's. They are a ghost town. What makes it even worse some missions even the "normals" are empty seems like the ones I need to get rep from on my Delta Recruit toon are empty.
As far as the last bit goes it was too bad if this was the case. It's the same thing with nerf's or making items that were once exclusive of one faction availiable to all factions in the name of Balance.
Other thing is have the levels locked. You can't enter unless your at that min level required. WoW also had this. This game would do better with this as well.
i have wanted this for ages no idea why they never did it . and once you unlock the lower lvl you go back unless you performance in the advanced mission drops . say a gear change or something. but along with this they need to do away with private ques unless the party is in the same fleet. but then it offers fleet rewards as an option.
if you ask me and many will say im crazy but the change from the old gear system was bad for the game we still have to grind the missions a million times. but the old way actually encouraged people to learn the missions .
im talking about the days of DS9 and Roxy. for you new people that still wont know what im talking about.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
perhaps making advanced a level 56 requirement might help?
lvling up is too easy and should not be tied to it. as i said before about the Klingon Academy one of the new people we picked up with a rainbow boat was lvl 58 . grinding out lvls in solo pve is not a judge of abilties.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
lvling up is too easy and should not be tied to it. as i said before about the Klingon Academy one of the new people we picked up with a rainbow boat was lvl 58 . grinding out lvls in solo pve is not a judge of abilties.
I was going to argue that getting more levels above 50 isn't easy... then you pointed that out and I facepalmed...
Perhaps they could introduce a episode-like mission in which the player runs those PVE missions in private mode... the away team explains what to do, and the progress depends entirely on them? for KG, they'd have to kill a specific number of drones to get the shields to drop... higher ranking drones reduce the number even faster... then they can proceed through... then beam into the device room... dropping the shields and extending it gets the consoles destroyed.
If the power room, not the console room, is not emptied of drones before attempting this, time is added on and the boffs will say "delay, engaging the drones. if drones are gone we can proceed to destroy the power relays"
Completing it in a specific times unlocks the higher levels?
KGN is unlocked when completed under 30
KGA is unlocked when completed under 20
KGE is unlocked when completed under 10
KS would just remove one side... you'd engage the other side with some warships supporting you. Warships hit the far side transformer, you're assigned to the near side transformer. You gotta kill the probes.
Like it or not this game is dps online. The 2 new Iconian space missions Gates of Gre'thor and Herald Space are a prime example of how DPS orientated they are.
Defend shipyard/starbase and Kill x mobs before timer runs out, kill x mobs before they escape through the Gateway.
Tanking and crowd control/debuffing aren't going to complete those 2 missions no matter how many gravity wells you throw or hull heals you can activate.
All 5 Borg missions are DPS orientated, Kill generators before spheres get to it to heal it. Kill Cubes above shipyards before timer runs out. Stop probes from entering time portal ect. All require dps.
Tanks are a relic and tbh if you can throw out 10k plus dps as long as you don't go all FAW on a large group and get mobbed by them, single targets will melt before you, so being a heavy tank is obsolete.
crowd control, gravity well is extremely useful, and can be a game saver even with high part gens its still in advanced/elite more of a hold than dps power. TBR with the voth doff to make them pull rather than push is far more effective and pulls better dps,
This game is all about DPS, look at the professions and powers you have in space. Engineers have no offensive powers in their arsenal (Warp Plasma and Acton Beam are jokes) Science has better powers but none on advanced/elite settings do any real damage. Tacts get all the powers hell they have 2 of the best debuffing powers in game, Attack Pattern Beta and Fire On My Mark.
A true tank only has a place in a specialized team where that player is dedicated to keeping his team alive whilst they forgo any defence for pure dps. Thats generally fleet, private or PvP matches.
In a pug run where the level of player varies considerably a tank is a anchor that drags the rest down. Why do i say this, Pugs vary, you could get 1 guy who can punch 10k dps the other 3 less than 3k and you as the tank might deal less than 3k as an example.
4 of you don't have the DPS to complete an advanced space stf, so that tank is wasted trying to keep the 3 3k dps players alive, or wasted taking aggro as only 1 player has the dps to kill anything. The 10k player is going to be taking most of the aggro anyway, Skill points in threat control, embassy consoles, and cruiser command power is no guarantee to take aggro off someone hitting a npc much harder than you as he is actually generating the threat with his dps
This is why i believe tanks are obsolete in Pug's. Specialized teams plausable, PvP sure.
Now i know lots of you out there have tanks that can both dps and tank, and sciences that can both crowd control and dps. but thats because you have an understanding of the games mechanics and have experience in what is required to run PvE missions and what builds you can get away with or put together.
Joe Public does not.
I was going to argue that getting more levels above 50 isn't easy... then you pointed that out and I facepalmed...
Perhaps they could introduce a episode-like mission in which the player runs those PVE missions in private mode... the away team explains what to do, and the progress depends entirely on them? for KG, they'd have to kill a specific number of drones to get the shields to drop... higher ranking drones reduce the number even faster... then they can proceed through... then beam into the device room... dropping the shields and extending it gets the consoles destroyed.
If the power room, not the console room, is not emptied of drones before attempting this, time is added on and the boffs will say "delay, engaging the drones. if drones are gone we can proceed to destroy the power relays"
Completing it in a specific times unlocks the higher levels?
KGN is unlocked when completed under 30
KGA is unlocked when completed under 20
KGE is unlocked when completed under 10
KS would just remove one side... you'd engage the other side with some warships supporting you. Warships hit the far side transformer, you're assigned to the near side transformer. You gotta kill the probes.
Something like that?
unless the npc talking to the player flat out says rainbows bad. and then explains what a rainbow boat /skittle boat is then it will mean nothing . it literally takes hours of talking to these people to get them sorted out they are such a mess. and what the consoles do and don't do. or even a npc telling them to hover over the console so they can read the description. believe it or not some don't know that. so i doubt and solo pve mission will ever work because making one that would address the problem would actually TRIBBLE off some people.
and the tutorials need to be mandatory. and more text added with a test at the end to make sure people were reading and paying attention.
sorting out chat so they know what channle they are talking in since game defaults as not showing channle name. i have recruited people that seemed to be ignoring me . send a pm nothing then enter the zone they were at and see they had been talking in the wrong channel all the time and didnt even know it.
the game is not new person friendly. and i wonder in how many cases when people think others are just not talking it could be issues like they are in the wrong channle and dont know it.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
"hi there player that doesnt know what they are doing or who well, please know what events you cant do despite the game not letting you know"
this is not the fault of players, its the fault of cryptic.
Comments
That TRIBBLE wasn't funny sixteen years ago when I was saying it either.
well, maybe they should return it for advanced/elite.
Like I care.
/throw_Pug_Lyfe_GangSign
You cared enough to respond.
There's this little thing called, built in performance brain meter, it's when your brain tells you, either you are doing awesome/well/good/ok/meh/sucks.
If their brain cannot register one of these parameters, than they need have their heads examined immediately!
I means seriously, how hard is it for someone to tell they suck, when they cannot stop ANY single advance enemy within 1 min.?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I didn't like your snobbery. It reminded me of the OP's snobbery.
Snobbery isn't pointing out that the Emperor wears no clothes.
If you say so, Your Majesty.
snobbery? Oh, bring me some!
You must return here with a snobbery... or else you will never pass through this wood... alive.
You win the thread.
Not often a human fails the Turing Test.
The fact that you're confused is enough evidence that you are indeed His Majesty, the Emperor and not the child. :rolleyes:
now i dont play fed so no way to help them even if i wanted to help federation scum. But on KDF side i have started publicly announcing the Klingon academy fleet.
our goal is not uber high end dps. or pvp killing machines neither of which are a bad thing and either or both are not discouraged. but the Primary goal is just make KDF players willing to learn viable players. so far since i started the fleet i have picked up only 2 experienced people willing to help teach new people . but we have recruited 8 other that were actually seeking help and wanted to learn the game .
most were rainbow boats with a few skittles mixed in. consoles that did not match their skills or weapons. and even bridge officer abilities that they did not have a need for like min dispersal with no mines on the boat.
and all have apologized for being so stupid. or bad. i tell them its not really their fault the game has nothing that really tells you these things its mostly all word of mouth and so many people do not want to talk it becoming a real issue.
basically allot of them are horribly bad but they dont even know it. some are willing to learn but few seem willing to actually teach.
Not true. I have great faith in humanity's ability to be Intentionally ignorant.
Thanks for helping me keep the faith.
i only remember entity showing when you got 1st place not dps. and i think it was the minefield that showed 1st 2nd and 3rd placement but again it didnt actually show the numbers. so the game does have a built in way of tracking this info. its already in the game they just are not using it for reason. imagine how much more dil people would spend on upgrades if they actually knew just how bad they are.
Resisting the implementation of DPS rankings does not make you a better player, in fact, it limits your ability to make educated changes in hopes of improving.
Those afraid to be outed as bad players simply wish to preserve their comfort as a bad player. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin "The best thing you can do for low DPSers is not making it easy to be a low DPSer, and helping to lead then out of it."
Very true, we need a way to measure the DPS.
WoW had the DPS chart anyone could access. I used it often in PVP and in group actions. To see how I was doing. Also they had a target dummy where you could beat on. To see what to do and set up your character better. Which both I used often.
If STO had both of these, it would help make better DPSers and players. I know I would use them and get an idea where I'm at.
Other thing is have the levels locked. You can't enter unless your at that min level required. WoW also had this. This game would do better with this as well.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You cut to the core with these three sections. But I will put one cavet on the Advanced sheer cliff thing. They really weren't that hard for a veteran player with even a half way decent build what made them impossible in many cases was the automatic being able to quque for them at what level 50? I did a Delta Recruit and had rare X's on a standard Mogai and guess what I could have queqed for Advanced with that toon. Did this mean that toon could have done the adavnced and had any success? Obviously not but this glitch combined with the revamp of PVE's are exactly what set up the mess they became. And a mission Optional should NEVER be made Mandatory and yet they were but were still being called an optional. These combined with the massive NPC HP increase and adding a clock devestated the queues for pve's. They are a ghost town. What makes it even worse some missions even the "normals" are empty seems like the ones I need to get rep from on my Delta Recruit toon are empty.
As far as the last bit goes it was too bad if this was the case. It's the same thing with nerf's or making items that were once exclusive of one faction availiable to all factions in the name of Balance.
i have wanted this for ages no idea why they never did it . and once you unlock the lower lvl you go back unless you performance in the advanced mission drops . say a gear change or something. but along with this they need to do away with private ques unless the party is in the same fleet. but then it offers fleet rewards as an option.
if you ask me and many will say im crazy but the change from the old gear system was bad for the game we still have to grind the missions a million times. but the old way actually encouraged people to learn the missions .
im talking about the days of DS9 and Roxy. for you new people that still wont know what im talking about.
lvling up is too easy and should not be tied to it. as i said before about the Klingon Academy one of the new people we picked up with a rainbow boat was lvl 58 . grinding out lvls in solo pve is not a judge of abilties.
I was going to argue that getting more levels above 50 isn't easy... then you pointed that out and I facepalmed...
Perhaps they could introduce a episode-like mission in which the player runs those PVE missions in private mode... the away team explains what to do, and the progress depends entirely on them? for KG, they'd have to kill a specific number of drones to get the shields to drop... higher ranking drones reduce the number even faster... then they can proceed through... then beam into the device room... dropping the shields and extending it gets the consoles destroyed.
If the power room, not the console room, is not emptied of drones before attempting this, time is added on and the boffs will say "delay, engaging the drones. if drones are gone we can proceed to destroy the power relays"
Completing it in a specific times unlocks the higher levels?
KGN is unlocked when completed under 30
KGA is unlocked when completed under 20
KGE is unlocked when completed under 10
KS would just remove one side... you'd engage the other side with some warships supporting you. Warships hit the far side transformer, you're assigned to the near side transformer. You gotta kill the probes.
Something like that?
Defend shipyard/starbase and Kill x mobs before timer runs out, kill x mobs before they escape through the Gateway.
Tanking and crowd control/debuffing aren't going to complete those 2 missions no matter how many gravity wells you throw or hull heals you can activate.
All 5 Borg missions are DPS orientated, Kill generators before spheres get to it to heal it. Kill Cubes above shipyards before timer runs out. Stop probes from entering time portal ect. All require dps.
Tanks are a relic and tbh if you can throw out 10k plus dps as long as you don't go all FAW on a large group and get mobbed by them, single targets will melt before you, so being a heavy tank is obsolete.
crowd control, gravity well is extremely useful, and can be a game saver even with high part gens its still in advanced/elite more of a hold than dps power. TBR with the voth doff to make them pull rather than push is far more effective and pulls better dps,
This game is all about DPS, look at the professions and powers you have in space. Engineers have no offensive powers in their arsenal (Warp Plasma and Acton Beam are jokes) Science has better powers but none on advanced/elite settings do any real damage. Tacts get all the powers hell they have 2 of the best debuffing powers in game, Attack Pattern Beta and Fire On My Mark.
A true tank only has a place in a specialized team where that player is dedicated to keeping his team alive whilst they forgo any defence for pure dps. Thats generally fleet, private or PvP matches.
In a pug run where the level of player varies considerably a tank is a anchor that drags the rest down. Why do i say this, Pugs vary, you could get 1 guy who can punch 10k dps the other 3 less than 3k and you as the tank might deal less than 3k as an example.
4 of you don't have the DPS to complete an advanced space stf, so that tank is wasted trying to keep the 3 3k dps players alive, or wasted taking aggro as only 1 player has the dps to kill anything. The 10k player is going to be taking most of the aggro anyway, Skill points in threat control, embassy consoles, and cruiser command power is no guarantee to take aggro off someone hitting a npc much harder than you as he is actually generating the threat with his dps
This is why i believe tanks are obsolete in Pug's. Specialized teams plausable, PvP sure.
Now i know lots of you out there have tanks that can both dps and tank, and sciences that can both crowd control and dps. but thats because you have an understanding of the games mechanics and have experience in what is required to run PvE missions and what builds you can get away with or put together.
Joe Public does not.
unless the npc talking to the player flat out says rainbows bad. and then explains what a rainbow boat /skittle boat is then it will mean nothing . it literally takes hours of talking to these people to get them sorted out they are such a mess. and what the consoles do and don't do. or even a npc telling them to hover over the console so they can read the description. believe it or not some don't know that. so i doubt and solo pve mission will ever work because making one that would address the problem would actually TRIBBLE off some people.
and the tutorials need to be mandatory. and more text added with a test at the end to make sure people were reading and paying attention.
sorting out chat so they know what channle they are talking in since game defaults as not showing channle name. i have recruited people that seemed to be ignoring me . send a pm nothing then enter the zone they were at and see they had been talking in the wrong channel all the time and didnt even know it.
the game is not new person friendly. and i wonder in how many cases when people think others are just not talking it could be issues like they are in the wrong channle and dont know it.
might actually work and makes more sense than following tom paris through circles