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We can dance ...or can we?

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    thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited June 2015

    my point is... there are people who has actually suffered from being assaulted, from having their personal space invaded... in real life. The behaviour of some people here and what they're complaining about is an insult to those real people.

    There are people dying in real life so you have no right to complain about people complaining!

    With all the trolls about one would think this was Censoredcraft.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    honestly, if you took it to court, this guy... the judge would laugh you out of court.

    he's not threatening anyone., He's just jumping up and down mighty close to you.
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    suzanna3suzanna3 Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    if you read what I posted above, then you'd understand that I am comparing the idiocy of the people COMPLAINING about this to the idiocy of the people complaining that disco balls was like sexual assault awhile back.

    my point? "IT'S AN INVASION OF MY PERSONAL SPOT!!" when honestly, it's an mmo, it's online, and the guy isn't in your personal spot... at all...

    So you are saying that its fine for people to come to a game and be trolled, well that rather negates the point of the game, does it not? May as well go to a game called trolls online^^ and people wonder why there are so few of us real females playing! So "agree I do not"

    singularity_zps539276de.jpg
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    you know in defend Rhih'hno station, we all crowd pretty tight in that shaft... maybe you guys could complain about our personal space being invaded?
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    thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    This is why it's so vitally, so vitally important to use some kind of 'reasonable person' standard when making rules and things.

    Would a reasonable person, a randomly chosen person able to give reasonable explanations for themself, think that such and such a thing was an offense.

    I don't believe your average reasonable person would think having one toon in a video game dance near to another toon in a video game is an offense.

    Some small number of otherwise reasonable persons might, but it fails an "any reasonable person" standard.

    The instance stalking would be what a reasonable person would find unreasonable, which is why you left that part out.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    suzanna3 wrote: »
    So you are saying that its fine for people to come to a game and be trolled, well that rather negates the point of the game, does it not? May as well go to a game called trolls online^^ and people wonder why there are so few of us real females playing! So "agree I do not"
    there is no way to know the actual gender of players playing, that argument is moot

    The instance stalking would be what a reasonable person would find unreasonable, which is why you left that part out.

    why leave to go to another instance?
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    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - the trouble is, the trolls in STO are very good at what they do.

    What I do think they are trying to do (and they deserve credit for that) is to bring back the glory of the "Forum trolls" of old. At one point those guys would do what they do to amuse the rest of the board and it really worked because they didn't target other people but were providing some general "entertainment" that toyed with the forum's topic, the rules or providing satiric views on certain issues. By always staying within the TOS and being able to provide eloquent and humorous comments there was a kind of "Oh, what's these guys up to again? :D". In STOs case, the people in question missed the mark, though, and didn't realize when to stop and are merely... tiresome. Sometimes surprising, but overall just "unfortunate". Like a 40-year old hanging around their old high school.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    allow to do as we please?


    lmao, that's rich... considering that it was a public place and someone wanted to take over a public space for their own rules...

    and then complain when they got griefed for it.


    if the guy was getting on your ship and doing that, then you'd have grounds for complaints, but the space was public. If I was to organise a dance party at a public venue, I'd get permission from the city and security.

    I doubt cryptic gave permission for the party itself, hence why they won't deal with it
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Where was that actually said or implied?

    a get together on Risa... check

    it's a party in a public instance.... check

    random guy shows up and crashes the party... check

    someone complains... check
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    aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    And personal space, in a video game?

    Yeah, funny that ... , with 40-something instances abound , and a certain blue bearded freak show still has to hump ppl's 'virtual avatars to get his jollies .





    ... but then again it is summer ... , and the roaches do tend to surface ...
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Indeed.

    And I make no apologies for repeat quoting this post:


    because it's exactly what DID happen.

    the griefer is an TRIBBLE, I will give you that. He is creepy... I'll give you that... but you are getting him off on this because of the griefing... the complaints and you're entertaining others because there is a far more simple solution to this; ignore him.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,410 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Epic, you certainly are repetitive.

    Perhaps some remedial Sesame Street is in order. After a few hours of that, you might be able to grasp the distinction between "near" and "literally on TOP of".

    Travis, try this as a thought-experiment - whenever you do anything on, say, Risa, wear a blindfold. Not in-game, on your actual face. Then just ignore the fact that you can't see a damn thing. Does that work for you? No? Then why do you expect it to work for anyone else?
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Which is what the OP attempted to do.

    she attempted badly... and then came on the forums and complained... giving the troll exactly what he wanted.


    You move away, you complain, he wins. You ignore him and pretend he isn't even there, he'll go away
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Not really - he hasn't posted for almost a fortnight, suggesting that he probably (hopefully) earned himself another forum ban.

    he can still read
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    berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    allow to do as we please?


    lmao, that's rich... considering that it was a public place and someone wanted to take over a public space for their own rules...

    and then complain when they got griefed for it.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Where was that actually said or implied?
    a get together on Risa... check

    it's a party in a public instance.... check

    random guy shows up and crashes the party... check

    someone complains... check

    When, exactly, did they make up the rules that you say they were being griefed for? Also, you should read the STO Ingame Code of Conduct.
    In-Game Behavior Policies

    While playing Star Trek Online it is against the game policy to intentionally disrupt the game play of other players. Disruptive actions include:

    Preventing content access to other players by blocking mobs, doors, nodes, etc.
    Spamming excessive effects
    Interfering with player-run events
    Interfering with player gatherings

    Intentionally exploiting game bugs
    Utilizing third-party programs to automate unattended game-play
    Disobeying instructions given by a Cryptic or PWE Game Master
    Also, Section 15 of the PWE TOS
    15. User Conduct
    15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
    15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

    a. harm minors in any way;

    b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

    c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;

    d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail”, “spam”, “chain letters”, “pyramid schemes”, or any other form of solicitation;

    e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;

    f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

    g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;

    h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;

    i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;

    j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

    k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

    l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

    m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;

    n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
    Seems that "griefing" is pretty clearly against the rules, yet you admit that is what happened.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    you do realise that in a multicultural world, we all have different ideas of what is respectful, commonly accepted behaviour?
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    walt04walt04 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Far to seriously ... really... that is such a copout statement... harassment is harassment... don't mater who dose it in what form... they hunted her down ... invaded her personal space... when she moved.. they hunted her down again... they do it all the time every time they get a chance.. as far as the change instance defense... they just go to the instance you change too and do it again.. they are well practiced at this and as I said before .. good at it... been going on for at least three years.. not just this game but others as well.. they have it in there secured website mandate .. that only members can get access to and read... even have a call word to target folks with.. calling a Fatwa on an individual... always in the background.. always denied by all in the group saying it.. watched this happen to more than one individual for at least 3 years... Im sure the denials will come rushing in... further confirming the usual m.o. its old folks.. If u see this happening ... report it... behavior like this is unacceptable.. in games or real life.. trying to excuse this behavior with " its just a Game" defense is just as offensive as the act itself... and kind of lame. its actually funny because most of these folks complain on the zone channel how society is messed up... then turn around pulling stunts like this engaging on the very thing they gripe about.. excusing it with .. its not really hurting anyone.. its just a game.. Wow .. that's a certain kind of "Special " there.... .
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    you are taking it too seriously. Report it, ignore him and he's dealt with.
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    berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    you do realise that in a multicultural world, we all have different ideas of what is respectful, commonly accepted behaviour?

    Personal Space may vary culture to culture, and even from one caste to another, but it is a universal concept that is hard wired into us. The article I linked suggests that the amygdala is where the sense is located.

    So, while our idea of personal space may vary, the behavior as described and shown is very clearly not just invading personal space, but crossing into what the diagrams in the article describe as "intimate space". Since the TOS specifically talk about "all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy," I'm pretty sure this issue should be covered by it.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
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    deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    you'd have to prove that our toons are worthy of personal space.


    I'm not defending this griefer, I'm not... I'm just pointing out the flaws in your arguments
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    tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Haters will be haters, I was on last night and a few were giving away stuff, it was very nice and thoughtful of them I thought, share the joy and fun. But a few had to jump in and talk hate because they thought the gifts were not good enough. Come on, Really, if its not good enough how about you should use how to do it, give away a 20 to a 100 very rare or ultra ships, weapon's and other items. Dont like the game the way it is, go to school and learn to code, make it better. All this hate and trash talk about this or that just shows us how stupid you really are.

    I want to thank those again who are doing this on their own or as a group. You guys and gals really make a difference in my book.
    Positive thoughts.
    NeAC.gif
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    thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited June 2015

    I just can't wrap my head around it.

    If you admitted to being able to you'd step out of the legalese gray area that keeps that behavior just so barely technically within the ToS. That's why you can't. Well, won't admit to it.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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    thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, literally, what are you talking about??

    I spent my day on sto buying thousands of lohlunat favors on the exchanging and then giving them out 50 at a time to anyone who opened a trade window with me, and posting in chat about where I was, so that people could come get free lohlunat favors.

    Because it's the risa summer event, and giving people gifts is fun.

    You know though, I think someone was dancing and their toon was right next to mine. That person may even have switched instances when I did and continued to dance next to my toon.

    Somehow, since it was a dance party and giveaway, and not some sort of bizarre excercize about controlling others, this didn't matter.

    The Mafia used to run soup kitchens.

    Did that change the fact that they were a criminal organization?
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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    walt04walt04 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Same excuses.. and same redefinition to make them feel like what there doing is not wrong... Same Lame ... so sad that is what they do with there time.. in any court of law... if I did what you described in any culture in any circumstance... to any of there loved ones .. they would have the law.. or worse on me in a hot second.. if you wouldn't do it to your Mother or Children .. what exactly makes it ok to do here...
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