I have issues with this new episode, but B'Eler and her mate aren't necessarily one of them.
We already knew about B'Eler and her mate (whose name eludes me right now) from the mission "Spin the Wheel." I seem to recall that it was possibly a typo or something to that effect that caused her to have a female mate in the first place, or that B'Eler may have originally been intended to be a male character, or both, but I remember hearing that people said it was an interesting little detail made as a result of and to leave it in.
I have no real issue with that, as it wasn't made a big deal of within the mission, that one or this new one. I felt that it was treated with a good amount of dignity, in that it isn't trying to rub it in people's faces or anything. I appreciate that.
My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
Great Episode - I especially applaud the creators for including B'Eler and Trevana - this wonderfully shows what Jadzia Dax once said.. "The Klingons are as diverse a people as any" Many thanks!
"We might get pretty singed at that range, but not as singed as they're going to get. Engage."
- Captain Six of Nine aka Ashley "Don't Call Me Ash" Campbell
I wouldn't be overly surprised to see them remove the content. Even if they do I'll still be very proud of the team that made it and got it in the game. For me it was by far the best moment in 4 years of STO. Well, I also enjoyed playing every mission with my mate this past month as delta recruits.
I do think that this is a possiblity. And I would be disappointed if they did.
Summarizing the events, at first I was unsure about the depiciton of the characters in question. After thinking about it, I actively choose not to be offended by the depiction of the couple because I am willing to accept that they went for a "Klingon" type of relationship before they hopped on the "butch TRIBBLE" stereotype. I will point out that Cryptic's writing in this case is 'unfortunate' and by no means revolutionary, although for the sake of the game I have to positively mention the Klingon engineer B'Eler (the "mate") and the Klingon commander which do not strike me as typical Klingon stereotypes but open up a deeper depiction of Klingons.
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur. This is something you cannot possibly reason, especially not to my face. If someone wants to try I invite them to do so in private, I hope without the reason being that they do not want to have a talk with their children.
I would be very disappointed if Cryptic would change two words of the dialogue for that reason. In any way, this has been a sad day for this community and Star Trek.
(...)My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
I fully agree. From a storytelling perspective, the stories' writing is lacking big time, especially considering the whole thing remains largely unresolved.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm going to say that I am a little disappointed by the House Pegh storyline. I've only played it part way through so far, so I can't comment on everything. I may have more comments later.
SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!
What should have been a moving story about the sacrifice one man makes to stand against evil and save others was turned into a politically correct/incorrect sideshow. I do not support that or agree with it.
I mean, you have freaking Kahless himself being killed by the Iconians and the Sword of Kahless lost in an Iconian base. It's a tragedy! Very dramatic storytelling! But it ends up being about a TRIBBLE couple in the forums.
I can admire devotion and affection for another person, regardless of gender. It doesn't have to be about sex. It didn't have to be about sex here, and would have played just as well without using the word 'mate'. It's a word with a very specific meaning in a specific biological context.
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
There was one other thing that bothered me about the story and it had nothing to do with the subject of mates. The fact that a character gets away with calling a Dahar Master a petaQ and I don't get to knock them on their butts or threaten to kill them for it like a good Klingon would have done, that was very unsatisfying.
News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
indeed, this is the world where we are living now. civilizations evolve, the individualities must also evolve. even if something is hidden, this thing continues to exist, and one day kids are confronted to this thing, this is why they must be prepared. this thing can be: homosexuality, violence, war, etc etc
why the love between 2 persons should be hidden; and this is about only feelings between 2 persons; no sex. your kids kill each time than they play at STO, tons of ennemies. Violence, war are more acceptable than the love??
Were pleased to announce that our latest Featured Episode is now available to Captains engaged in the Iconian War! Join the House Pegh, as you take on a covert operation to strike at the Iconian forces.
Tried doing it on 3 toons now and was only able to get the weekly reward of the spec point/universal upgrade token the first time.
why is this account-based???
that has never been the case with a reward before.
please fix.
nice episode though - enjoyed it
good job (apart from the reward bug (reported + ticket made)
They did it for "Uneasy allies" and "Blood of the warrior" too.
The main reward (special gear, the traits. etc) can be earned as often as one likes, but the first 3 weeks there is also a special reward (Tech upgrade/spec point) you are only able to earn once per week per account.
-
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur.
The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Even those who advocated for 'separate but equal' payed lip service to the term equal.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The one thing we can all agree on is that LGBT relations are controversial (if this is warranted or not is a discussion for another time/place) and anybody could have seen in advance that people would find it offensive.
When you know this then the wisdom of adding a LGBT couple can be questioned.
Personally i feel this addition of the relationship was unnecessary for the storyline, distracting and inflammatory /provocative. Overall poor judgement on the addition.
that this COULD be interpreted as homophobia. Not extreme physical homophobia, but still could be considered as this?
Especially since, once again, it's only 2 things:
-a "mate" casually mentioned by Ramir
-the mentioned mate being female (which was mentioned in the game 5 years ago for an unrelated mission)
No blog saying "come and see the first LGBT couple of STO!", no continuation on the subject after the first argument (and the argument wasn't even about their sexuality), nothing.
The whole "they made her grumpy because she's TRIBBLE, I am deeply offended for the lesbians!" is just an interpretation which is not shared by everyone.
Some think it's because she's an over-protective Klingon period, others think it's because you come in and tell her girlfriend we should toss her calculations away and do something else, and there could even be other possibilities, like being discriminated elsewhere by other Klingons.
And I won't go again about the "think of the children!", "this has no place in a MMO", "I'm offended to see gays everywhere!", "it's a liberal conspiracy", etc...
Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
It was you who "surprised" me in that matter. In one posting you said homosexual relationships were controversial. As with another issue, I actively chose to not be offended by that because I figured you weren't saying that the actual existing of homosexual relationships was controversial but you meant the fact that there are plenty of people who openly oppose equal rights for whatever irrational reasons and one has to expect some of those voices to be heard after having those characters in the mission.
Your "solution" was to not include such "controversial" themes, make them invisible and never talk about them. Do you honestly believe this is the right way to handle things? Catering to some irrational, unjustifyable "fears" and supporting them by cocnealing everything going contrary to their believes? Would you support to limit the privilege of free speech because people might say something somebody will be offended about as well?
This game is still based on Star Trek. A show that in it's basic principle portrayed humanities strife to improve itself, to embrace different points of view and reaching out in friendship and understanding. If we start to remove signs of equal rights in that universe because some people carry some irrational denial within them I would call it a giant blow for our society.
And if anybody truly believes one throw-away line of already established characters was only implemented to "get them" those people have serious mental issues that I don't say are easy to deal with but the problem definitely lies not with this game and TRIBBLE klingons.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm not going to quote each and every one of the post, but i cannot be held responsible if people look at my comments through pink glasses and consider my comments homophobic.
It's ironic that those who strongly advocate equal rights for LGBT are those who shout the loudest and create rifts between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour) and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context. These things add nothing to the game and are bound to create adverse reactions.
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
It is the militant "us vs them" which is the biggest danger for the equal rights movement for LGBT.
I previously mentioned this, but in the Netherlands in which a lot of progress has been made (e.g. TRIBBLE marriage, equal status for insurance, TRIBBLE pride parades and equal rights for adoption) public support is diminishing because of the often militant attitude of the LGBT movement.
In other words, you're your own worst enemy.
For those who choose to label me a homophobe, bigot, closet homosexual etc. etc. I'd say go ahead but i am glad i am not responsible for your ignorance.
I support equality for all, but i do not support militant tactics used by those on either side of the barricades.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I don't think its appropriate for a 'super moderator' on these forums to make remarks that are hateful to members of the community.
There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, it is not an obscenity. We protect children from being exposed to obscenity.
There is absolutely no difference between a heterosexual couple and a homosexual one. homosexuality is not obscene, LGBT are not an abomination, they aren't immoral.
I can't believe you'd actually post that in the official thread, honestly, what a slap in the face to the LGBT people on here, what an awful thing to say.
And you have the gall to talk about a 'lack of respect?' What you posted is profoundly disrespectful to a lot of people.
Its not often I agree with you, but yeah. I completely expected there to be some people who would come to the forums and voice their disgust. But for a moderator to post border line hate speak? That really threw me for a loop, especially when said mod was someone I had had a lot of respect for previously for how they've handled hot button issues in the past.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour)
I agree to a certain point, but there is none of that in the game and especially not this episode.
and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context.
And how would that even be possible? Everyone has sexual preferences. So Tom Paris should have never appeared because he has a biological daughter (with an individual of a different species) so it's clear his preference is hetero? Worf should be gone because he had a biological son?
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
Then why being offended if it does add nothing? Also, which stereotypes?
I'm going to say that I am a little disappointed by the House Pegh storyline. I've only played it part way through so far, so I can't comment on everything. I may have more comments later.
SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!
What should have been a moving story about the sacrifice one man makes to stand against evil and save others was turned into a politically correct/incorrect sideshow. I do not support that or agree with it.
I mean, you have freaking Kahless himself being killed by the Iconians and the Sword of Kahless lost in an Iconian base. It's a tragedy! Very dramatic storytelling! But it ends up being about a TRIBBLE couple in the forums.
I can admire devotion and affection for another person, regardless of gender. It doesn't have to be about sex. It didn't have to be about sex here, and would have played just as well without using the word 'mate'. It's a word with a very specific meaning in a specific biological context.
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
There was one other thing that bothered me about the story and it had nothing to do with the subject of mates. The fact that a character gets away with calling a Dahar Master a petaQ and I don't get to knock them on their butts or threaten to kill them for it like a good Klingon would have done, that was very unsatisfying.
Social intolerance much? How did you get to be a community moderator when you hold such a bigoted view?
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
This is the only part of your post which can be agreed upon.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
How disturbing, that you feel the need to shelter your kids from a passing reference to a same gender couple these days. Your *teenage* sons, really? I hesitate to think what you would do if one of them later came out as TRIBBLE. Regardless, they may come to dislike the overly suffocating stance you have.
A moderator, even a voluntary moderator like yourself, should be able to remain impartial, or step down. The above quoted seems to indicate that you are incapable of that, if you're so bigoted, that you view a same gender relationship as something to be moderated to the point of being shoved back into the closet.
I'm not going to quote each and every one of the post, but i cannot be held responsible if people look at my comments through pink glasses and consider my comments homophobic.
It's ironic that those who strongly advocate equal rights for LGBT are those who shout the loudest and create rifts between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour) and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context. These things add nothing to the game and are bound to create adverse reactions.
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
It is the militant "us vs them" which is the biggest danger for the equal rights movement for LGBT.
I previously mentioned this, but in the Netherlands in which a lot of progress has been made (e.g. TRIBBLE marriage, equal status for insurance, TRIBBLE pride parades and equal rights for adoption) public support is diminishing because of the often militant attitude of the LGBT movement.
In other words, you're your own worst enemy.
For those who choose to label me a homophobe, bigot, closet homosexual etc. etc. I'd say go ahead but i am glad i am not responsible for your ignorance.
I support equality for all, but i do not support militant tactics used by those on either side of the barricades.
I was actually offended by the couple's steretypical depiction at first, but after thinking about it they may just incorporate the "Klingon" aspect of the relationship. After all, the character was not a butch man hating amazon, she reacts the same to anyone endangering her mate.
But let me ask you a question: If there had been a heterosexual couple - would that be a "militant" promotion of marriage? This is an honest question. I don't understand why a homosexual couple appearing anywhere automatically equals a statement or militant political action when all we ask for is equal treatment, as in it doesn't matter what kind of couple is depicted. Believe it or not, it is *not* in my interest that TRIBBLE klingons cause this uproar - it saddens me deeply. And I like to understand why it has to this way, why so many people are so dedicated to refuse equal rights for all human beings (as I honestly don'T get why this depiciton should not be in this game, based on a universe propagating open cooperation and tolerance). I don't say you are - but you advocate to conceal and hide and not step out in the open.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
For a bunch of fans of Star Trek where the main belief is IDIC I think the comments especially against homosexuality in a game is disgraceful.
Yes people don't want it shoved down there throats and yes the comment didnt add to the story in anyway but who cares let bygone be bygones if you don't like what is put in the game don't play it. The Game is T for Teen if your worried about your children playing the content that is what the game rating is for.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I find the official responses utterly bizarre. And really the only bit of sadness or grief I have from the situation. Cryptic put this situation in the game. No one asked for it. I'm glad we got it, but the point is the fallout should have come as no surprise. They seem to be handling it much as a corporation would have in the 1980's fearing Jerry Falwell's 'moral majority' and boycotts. But it is not the 1980's. There is no need to bend so far backwards nor pander.
I'm beginning to think that the delay was indeed caused by this issue and it was a close call on whether to include it.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Any way, really, if you feel "offend" by this, that is a "You" problem, and deal with it.
If your upset fine, but being upset does not give the right to come on here, speak hate, speak disgusting comments. Nothing was forced, nothing was Crammed down your throat.
You see way more on TV, TRIBBLE or straight sexual content. And really lesbians? the most watch TRIBBLE in this country is TRIBBLE TRIBBLE, which is watched by straight men, and most is from the bible belt south.
This is not offensive to most people, and if it is "You" are the exception to the rule. So move one, play the game or don't. But pixels saying one word, that mentions TRIBBLE, will not ruin your life, affect your day.
But the hate speech you say on here will affect someones day
this is star trek, after all.
BTW honer thy neighbor, he without sin caste the first stone. if you claim religious reason for this, then please follow your religion properly
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
With so many same sex partners adopting now, this will become a pretty standard question soon anyway. Imho, the easiest way to answer would be to simply, and correctly, say adoption, and if they continue to ask for details you are not ready to give, tell them they'll understand when they get older. People already give that answer often enough when asked where babies come from.
Now, if you want an awkward question, heres one I've faced countless times. As I said my father is TRIBBLE (not bi, TRIBBLE), but he is also my biological father, and my parents were married. Explaining how I exist and why my parents were married is far more complicated than explaining how two guys or two girls have a kid. And no, my father was not in the closet when he met my mother, and she knew his last relationship had been with a guy.
I understand and appreciate your point. I just want for parents to be able to have the big talk when its more on thier timeline and terms. I know I grew up way too fast, I would like my kids to be kids longer than I did.
To be honest, I wouldnt have let my child play any MMO (or interactive social media outlet ) until they were at least 13-14, just because of the amount of individuals they will encounter (note ESD chat zone), and would have them playing next to me for obvious reasons.
Comments
We already knew about B'Eler and her mate (whose name eludes me right now) from the mission "Spin the Wheel." I seem to recall that it was possibly a typo or something to that effect that caused her to have a female mate in the first place, or that B'Eler may have originally been intended to be a male character, or both, but I remember hearing that people said it was an interesting little detail made as a result of and to leave it in.
I have no real issue with that, as it wasn't made a big deal of within the mission, that one or this new one. I felt that it was treated with a good amount of dignity, in that it isn't trying to rub it in people's faces or anything. I appreciate that.
My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
I do think that this is a possiblity. And I would be disappointed if they did.
Summarizing the events, at first I was unsure about the depiciton of the characters in question. After thinking about it, I actively choose not to be offended by the depiction of the couple because I am willing to accept that they went for a "Klingon" type of relationship before they hopped on the "butch TRIBBLE" stereotype. I will point out that Cryptic's writing in this case is 'unfortunate' and by no means revolutionary, although for the sake of the game I have to positively mention the Klingon engineer B'Eler (the "mate") and the Klingon commander which do not strike me as typical Klingon stereotypes but open up a deeper depiction of Klingons.
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur. This is something you cannot possibly reason, especially not to my face. If someone wants to try I invite them to do so in private, I hope without the reason being that they do not want to have a talk with their children.
I would be very disappointed if Cryptic would change two words of the dialogue for that reason. In any way, this has been a sad day for this community and Star Trek.
I fully agree. From a storytelling perspective, the stories' writing is lacking big time, especially considering the whole thing remains largely unresolved.
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News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
indeed, this is the world where we are living now. civilizations evolve, the individualities must also evolve. even if something is hidden, this thing continues to exist, and one day kids are confronted to this thing, this is why they must be prepared. this thing can be: homosexuality, violence, war, etc etc
why the love between 2 persons should be hidden; and this is about only feelings between 2 persons; no sex. your kids kill each time than they play at STO, tons of ennemies. Violence, war are more acceptable than the love??
It's bugged.
Tried doing it on 3 toons now and was only able to get the weekly reward of the spec point/universal upgrade token the first time.
why is this account-based???
that has never been the case with a reward before.
please fix.
nice episode though - enjoyed it
good job (apart from the reward bug (reported + ticket made)
They did it for "Uneasy allies" and "Blood of the warrior" too.
The main reward (special gear, the traits. etc) can be earned as often as one likes, but the first 3 weeks there is also a special reward (Tech upgrade/spec point) you are only able to earn once per week per account.
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The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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My rational side agrees, but my naive, hopeful heart hopes we do
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Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
Even those who advocated for 'separate but equal' payed lip service to the term equal.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm not sure if you realize something:
that this COULD be interpreted as homophobia. Not extreme physical homophobia, but still could be considered as this?
Especially since, once again, it's only 2 things:
-a "mate" casually mentioned by Ramir
-the mentioned mate being female (which was mentioned in the game 5 years ago for an unrelated mission)
No blog saying "come and see the first LGBT couple of STO!", no continuation on the subject after the first argument (and the argument wasn't even about their sexuality), nothing.
The whole "they made her grumpy because she's TRIBBLE, I am deeply offended for the lesbians!" is just an interpretation which is not shared by everyone.
Some think it's because she's an over-protective Klingon period, others think it's because you come in and tell her girlfriend we should toss her calculations away and do something else, and there could even be other possibilities, like being discriminated elsewhere by other Klingons.
And I won't go again about the "think of the children!", "this has no place in a MMO", "I'm offended to see gays everywhere!", "it's a liberal conspiracy", etc...
It was you who "surprised" me in that matter. In one posting you said homosexual relationships were controversial. As with another issue, I actively chose to not be offended by that because I figured you weren't saying that the actual existing of homosexual relationships was controversial but you meant the fact that there are plenty of people who openly oppose equal rights for whatever irrational reasons and one has to expect some of those voices to be heard after having those characters in the mission.
Your "solution" was to not include such "controversial" themes, make them invisible and never talk about them. Do you honestly believe this is the right way to handle things? Catering to some irrational, unjustifyable "fears" and supporting them by cocnealing everything going contrary to their believes? Would you support to limit the privilege of free speech because people might say something somebody will be offended about as well?
This game is still based on Star Trek. A show that in it's basic principle portrayed humanities strife to improve itself, to embrace different points of view and reaching out in friendship and understanding. If we start to remove signs of equal rights in that universe because some people carry some irrational denial within them I would call it a giant blow for our society.
And if anybody truly believes one throw-away line of already established characters was only implemented to "get them" those people have serious mental issues that I don't say are easy to deal with but the problem definitely lies not with this game and TRIBBLE klingons.
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I guess since you don't actually see her 'mate' it doesn't mean anything.
It's ironic that those who strongly advocate equal rights for LGBT are those who shout the loudest and create rifts between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour) and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context. These things add nothing to the game and are bound to create adverse reactions.
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
It is the militant "us vs them" which is the biggest danger for the equal rights movement for LGBT.
I previously mentioned this, but in the Netherlands in which a lot of progress has been made (e.g. TRIBBLE marriage, equal status for insurance, TRIBBLE pride parades and equal rights for adoption) public support is diminishing because of the often militant attitude of the LGBT movement.
In other words, you're your own worst enemy.
For those who choose to label me a homophobe, bigot, closet homosexual etc. etc. I'd say go ahead but i am glad i am not responsible for your ignorance.
I support equality for all, but i do not support militant tactics used by those on either side of the barricades.
Its not often I agree with you, but yeah. I completely expected there to be some people who would come to the forums and voice their disgust. But for a moderator to post border line hate speak? That really threw me for a loop, especially when said mod was someone I had had a lot of respect for previously for how they've handled hot button issues in the past.
Is this really the stance you want to take Bluegeek?
Do you really wish to tell us all that you run through life with a sword in one hand and a torch in the other when it comes to social progression?
That you define love as an "obscenity"?
You truely are an empty man, and I pity you.
And how would that even be possible? Everyone has sexual preferences. So Tom Paris should have never appeared because he has a biological daughter (with an individual of a different species) so it's clear his preference is hetero? Worf should be gone because he had a biological son?
Then why being offended if it does add nothing? Also, which stereotypes?
Social intolerance much? How did you get to be a community moderator when you hold such a bigoted view?
This is the only part of your post which can be agreed upon.
How disturbing, that you feel the need to shelter your kids from a passing reference to a same gender couple these days. Your *teenage* sons, really? I hesitate to think what you would do if one of them later came out as TRIBBLE. Regardless, they may come to dislike the overly suffocating stance you have.
A moderator, even a voluntary moderator like yourself, should be able to remain impartial, or step down. The above quoted seems to indicate that you are incapable of that, if you're so bigoted, that you view a same gender relationship as something to be moderated to the point of being shoved back into the closet.
Me neither
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was actually offended by the couple's steretypical depiction at first, but after thinking about it they may just incorporate the "Klingon" aspect of the relationship. After all, the character was not a butch man hating amazon, she reacts the same to anyone endangering her mate.
But let me ask you a question: If there had been a heterosexual couple - would that be a "militant" promotion of marriage? This is an honest question. I don't understand why a homosexual couple appearing anywhere automatically equals a statement or militant political action when all we ask for is equal treatment, as in it doesn't matter what kind of couple is depicted. Believe it or not, it is *not* in my interest that TRIBBLE klingons cause this uproar - it saddens me deeply. And I like to understand why it has to this way, why so many people are so dedicated to refuse equal rights for all human beings (as I honestly don'T get why this depiciton should not be in this game, based on a universe propagating open cooperation and tolerance). I don't say you are - but you advocate to conceal and hide and not step out in the open.
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Yes people don't want it shoved down there throats and yes the comment didnt add to the story in anyway but who cares let bygone be bygones if you don't like what is put in the game don't play it. The Game is T for Teen if your worried about your children playing the content that is what the game rating is for.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm beginning to think that the delay was indeed caused by this issue and it was a close call on whether to include it.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Any way, really, if you feel "offend" by this, that is a "You" problem, and deal with it.
If your upset fine, but being upset does not give the right to come on here, speak hate, speak disgusting comments. Nothing was forced, nothing was Crammed down your throat.
You see way more on TV, TRIBBLE or straight sexual content. And really lesbians? the most watch TRIBBLE in this country is TRIBBLE TRIBBLE, which is watched by straight men, and most is from the bible belt south.
This is not offensive to most people, and if it is "You" are the exception to the rule. So move one, play the game or don't. But pixels saying one word, that mentions TRIBBLE, will not ruin your life, affect your day.
But the hate speech you say on here will affect someones day
this is star trek, after all.
BTW honer thy neighbor, he without sin caste the first stone. if you claim religious reason for this, then please follow your religion properly
I understand and appreciate your point. I just want for parents to be able to have the big talk when its more on thier timeline and terms. I know I grew up way too fast, I would like my kids to be kids longer than I did.
To be honest, I wouldnt have let my child play any MMO (or interactive social media outlet ) until they were at least 13-14, just because of the amount of individuals they will encounter (note ESD chat zone), and would have them playing next to me for obvious reasons.