I want them to know that I'm disappointed that they did this, why I'm disappointed, and that it does affect my desire to keep playing the game and to let my kids keep playing the game.
How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one? They've both people who love each other.
I enjoyed the mission overall, though I did have some trouble with crashes during the ground portions. And the space battle at the end was a little much. But the story was pretty good, and I'm glad we didn't have a complete victory for once.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Having played the mission now, I enjoyed it until the end of the ground segment. Kahless had outside help (which was needed), but kept gloating about honor until the end. 2v1 is not really honorable. And emergency transport? Heck no. I wanted to stay and kick their alien butts into the next galaxy. Or at least attempt to retrieve the Kahless Sword. Overall, that last bit felt rushed. I know it's war and losses are going to happen, I was disappointed at how quickly the heroes gave up and beamed away.
I throrougly enjoyed the Iconian Nightclub though.
How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one? They've both people who love each other.
Some approve it, some don't. Where the issue lies is how tolerant others are to each view. And respect their view of it.
Personally I don't like homosexual relationships. I respect that is who they are, but on the other hand you have to respect my decision based off my belief. That is true tolerance.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I do accept that people feel uncomfortable about same sex relationships. That is who they are. I do not respect when said people want others to hide their same sex attraction, want third parties to keep the fact of same sex attraction out of everyday life. If homosexuals should hide who they are then those opposing them need to do the same and not talk about their dislike at all and keep it confined to their own homes.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Some approve it, some don't. Where the issue lies is how tolerant others are to each view. And respect their view of it.
Personally I don't like homosexual relationships. I respect that is who they are, but on the other hand you have to respect my decision based off my belief. That is true tolerance.
Nobody has to like TRIBBLE relationships. That's acceptance, not tolerance. However, some of what i am seeing in here is not tolerance at all.
"TRIBBLE people shouldn't be seen in media that my kids might see, because it's your responsibility to hide from my kids so they're not exposed to you" is not respectful nor tolerant. Even if you phrase it carefully.
One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?
One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?
Yes. Possibly that blue Iconian from the loading screens? We haven't seen that one yet, only M'Tara (purple) and T'Ket (red).
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?
Didn't see that console I don't think. But thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to look for it on my next run through.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Did anyone else get the impression that the archetecture of the iconian facility was strikingly similar to the interior of the Farpoint aliens from Encounter at Farpoint?
I have issues with this new episode, but B'Eler and her mate aren't necessarily one of them.
We already knew about B'Eler and her mate (whose name eludes me right now) from the mission "Spin the Wheel." I seem to recall that it was possibly a typo or something to that effect that caused her to have a female mate in the first place, or that B'Eler may have originally been intended to be a male character, or both, but I remember hearing that people said it was an interesting little detail made as a result of and to leave it in.
I have no real issue with that, as it wasn't made a big deal of within the mission, that one or this new one. I felt that it was treated with a good amount of dignity, in that it isn't trying to rub it in people's faces or anything. I appreciate that.
My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
Great Episode - I especially applaud the creators for including B'Eler and Trevana - this wonderfully shows what Jadzia Dax once said.. "The Klingons are as diverse a people as any" Many thanks!
"We might get pretty singed at that range, but not as singed as they're going to get. Engage."
- Captain Six of Nine aka Ashley "Don't Call Me Ash" Campbell
I wouldn't be overly surprised to see them remove the content. Even if they do I'll still be very proud of the team that made it and got it in the game. For me it was by far the best moment in 4 years of STO. Well, I also enjoyed playing every mission with my mate this past month as delta recruits.
I do think that this is a possiblity. And I would be disappointed if they did.
Summarizing the events, at first I was unsure about the depiciton of the characters in question. After thinking about it, I actively choose not to be offended by the depiction of the couple because I am willing to accept that they went for a "Klingon" type of relationship before they hopped on the "butch TRIBBLE" stereotype. I will point out that Cryptic's writing in this case is 'unfortunate' and by no means revolutionary, although for the sake of the game I have to positively mention the Klingon engineer B'Eler (the "mate") and the Klingon commander which do not strike me as typical Klingon stereotypes but open up a deeper depiction of Klingons.
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur. This is something you cannot possibly reason, especially not to my face. If someone wants to try I invite them to do so in private, I hope without the reason being that they do not want to have a talk with their children.
I would be very disappointed if Cryptic would change two words of the dialogue for that reason. In any way, this has been a sad day for this community and Star Trek.
(...)My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
I fully agree. From a storytelling perspective, the stories' writing is lacking big time, especially considering the whole thing remains largely unresolved.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm going to say that I am a little disappointed by the House Pegh storyline. I've only played it part way through so far, so I can't comment on everything. I may have more comments later.
SPOILERS FOLLOW!!!!
What should have been a moving story about the sacrifice one man makes to stand against evil and save others was turned into a politically correct/incorrect sideshow. I do not support that or agree with it.
I mean, you have freaking Kahless himself being killed by the Iconians and the Sword of Kahless lost in an Iconian base. It's a tragedy! Very dramatic storytelling! But it ends up being about a TRIBBLE couple in the forums.
I can admire devotion and affection for another person, regardless of gender. It doesn't have to be about sex. It didn't have to be about sex here, and would have played just as well without using the word 'mate'. It's a word with a very specific meaning in a specific biological context.
I feel that in their attempt to be politically correct, Cryptic not only invited controversy they also distracted and detracted from the story they were trying to tell. The death of Kahless at the hands of the Iconians.
I feel they also showed a lack of respect for the fact that the game is played by children as well as adults (rated T!) and this was an inappropriate subject to casually toss in.
I will say that it was at least not extremely overt and many children will miss it (as some of the adults did). But I feel parents have the right to be aware when things like this are brought up in a game context and not be blindsided by them. I am previewing the episode and have a chance to be a responsible parent to my teenage sons who play STO and have a discussion about it. If Cryptic wants to set this as a precedent and abuse my trust in their discretion, then I either need to preview every single episode before my sons get a chance to play it or I need to prevent them from playing at all. Either way, Cryptic, do you really want people preventing their kids from logging in at convenient times?
There was one other thing that bothered me about the story and it had nothing to do with the subject of mates. The fact that a character gets away with calling a Dahar Master a petaQ and I don't get to knock them on their butts or threaten to kill them for it like a good Klingon would have done, that was very unsatisfying.
News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
indeed, this is the world where we are living now. civilizations evolve, the individualities must also evolve. even if something is hidden, this thing continues to exist, and one day kids are confronted to this thing, this is why they must be prepared. this thing can be: homosexuality, violence, war, etc etc
why the love between 2 persons should be hidden; and this is about only feelings between 2 persons; no sex. your kids kill each time than they play at STO, tons of ennemies. Violence, war are more acceptable than the love??
Were pleased to announce that our latest Featured Episode is now available to Captains engaged in the Iconian War! Join the House Pegh, as you take on a covert operation to strike at the Iconian forces.
Tried doing it on 3 toons now and was only able to get the weekly reward of the spec point/universal upgrade token the first time.
why is this account-based???
that has never been the case with a reward before.
please fix.
nice episode though - enjoyed it
good job (apart from the reward bug (reported + ticket made)
They did it for "Uneasy allies" and "Blood of the warrior" too.
The main reward (special gear, the traits. etc) can be earned as often as one likes, but the first 3 weeks there is also a special reward (Tech upgrade/spec point) you are only able to earn once per week per account.
-
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur.
The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Even those who advocated for 'separate but equal' payed lip service to the term equal.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The one thing we can all agree on is that LGBT relations are controversial (if this is warranted or not is a discussion for another time/place) and anybody could have seen in advance that people would find it offensive.
When you know this then the wisdom of adding a LGBT couple can be questioned.
Personally i feel this addition of the relationship was unnecessary for the storyline, distracting and inflammatory /provocative. Overall poor judgement on the addition.
that this COULD be interpreted as homophobia. Not extreme physical homophobia, but still could be considered as this?
Especially since, once again, it's only 2 things:
-a "mate" casually mentioned by Ramir
-the mentioned mate being female (which was mentioned in the game 5 years ago for an unrelated mission)
No blog saying "come and see the first LGBT couple of STO!", no continuation on the subject after the first argument (and the argument wasn't even about their sexuality), nothing.
The whole "they made her grumpy because she's TRIBBLE, I am deeply offended for the lesbians!" is just an interpretation which is not shared by everyone.
Some think it's because she's an over-protective Klingon period, others think it's because you come in and tell her girlfriend we should toss her calculations away and do something else, and there could even be other possibilities, like being discriminated elsewhere by other Klingons.
And I won't go again about the "think of the children!", "this has no place in a MMO", "I'm offended to see gays everywhere!", "it's a liberal conspiracy", etc...
Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
It was you who "surprised" me in that matter. In one posting you said homosexual relationships were controversial. As with another issue, I actively chose to not be offended by that because I figured you weren't saying that the actual existing of homosexual relationships was controversial but you meant the fact that there are plenty of people who openly oppose equal rights for whatever irrational reasons and one has to expect some of those voices to be heard after having those characters in the mission.
Your "solution" was to not include such "controversial" themes, make them invisible and never talk about them. Do you honestly believe this is the right way to handle things? Catering to some irrational, unjustifyable "fears" and supporting them by cocnealing everything going contrary to their believes? Would you support to limit the privilege of free speech because people might say something somebody will be offended about as well?
This game is still based on Star Trek. A show that in it's basic principle portrayed humanities strife to improve itself, to embrace different points of view and reaching out in friendship and understanding. If we start to remove signs of equal rights in that universe because some people carry some irrational denial within them I would call it a giant blow for our society.
And if anybody truly believes one throw-away line of already established characters was only implemented to "get them" those people have serious mental issues that I don't say are easy to deal with but the problem definitely lies not with this game and TRIBBLE klingons.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'm not going to quote each and every one of the post, but i cannot be held responsible if people look at my comments through pink glasses and consider my comments homophobic.
It's ironic that those who strongly advocate equal rights for LGBT are those who shout the loudest and create rifts between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour) and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context. These things add nothing to the game and are bound to create adverse reactions.
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
It is the militant "us vs them" which is the biggest danger for the equal rights movement for LGBT.
I previously mentioned this, but in the Netherlands in which a lot of progress has been made (e.g. TRIBBLE marriage, equal status for insurance, TRIBBLE pride parades and equal rights for adoption) public support is diminishing because of the often militant attitude of the LGBT movement.
In other words, you're your own worst enemy.
For those who choose to label me a homophobe, bigot, closet homosexual etc. etc. I'd say go ahead but i am glad i am not responsible for your ignorance.
I support equality for all, but i do not support militant tactics used by those on either side of the barricades.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I don't think its appropriate for a 'super moderator' on these forums to make remarks that are hateful to members of the community.
There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, it is not an obscenity. We protect children from being exposed to obscenity.
There is absolutely no difference between a heterosexual couple and a homosexual one. homosexuality is not obscene, LGBT are not an abomination, they aren't immoral.
I can't believe you'd actually post that in the official thread, honestly, what a slap in the face to the LGBT people on here, what an awful thing to say.
And you have the gall to talk about a 'lack of respect?' What you posted is profoundly disrespectful to a lot of people.
Its not often I agree with you, but yeah. I completely expected there to be some people who would come to the forums and voice their disgust. But for a moderator to post border line hate speak? That really threw me for a loop, especially when said mod was someone I had had a lot of respect for previously for how they've handled hot button issues in the past.
Comments
How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one? They've both people who love each other.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Because he disapproves of homosexual relationships. Its really only different if you disapprove of them.
* * *
Having played the mission now, I enjoyed it until the end of the ground segment. Kahless had outside help (which was needed), but kept gloating about honor until the end. 2v1 is not really honorable. And emergency transport? Heck no. I wanted to stay and kick their alien butts into the next galaxy. Or at least attempt to retrieve the Kahless Sword. Overall, that last bit felt rushed. I know it's war and losses are going to happen, I was disappointed at how quickly the heroes gave up and beamed away.
I throrougly enjoyed the Iconian Nightclub though.
STO Screenshot Archive
Other than that, I had no problems with the mission.
Some approve it, some don't. Where the issue lies is how tolerant others are to each view. And respect their view of it.
Personally I don't like homosexual relationships. I respect that is who they are, but on the other hand you have to respect my decision based off my belief. That is true tolerance.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Nobody has to like TRIBBLE relationships. That's acceptance, not tolerance. However, some of what i am seeing in here is not tolerance at all.
"TRIBBLE people shouldn't be seen in media that my kids might see, because it's your responsibility to hide from my kids so they're not exposed to you" is not respectful nor tolerant. Even if you phrase it carefully.
One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?
Yes. Possibly that blue Iconian from the loading screens? We haven't seen that one yet, only M'Tara (purple) and T'Ket (red).
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Didn't see that console I don't think. But thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to look for it on my next run through.
We already knew about B'Eler and her mate (whose name eludes me right now) from the mission "Spin the Wheel." I seem to recall that it was possibly a typo or something to that effect that caused her to have a female mate in the first place, or that B'Eler may have originally been intended to be a male character, or both, but I remember hearing that people said it was an interesting little detail made as a result of and to leave it in.
I have no real issue with that, as it wasn't made a big deal of within the mission, that one or this new one. I felt that it was treated with a good amount of dignity, in that it isn't trying to rub it in people's faces or anything. I appreciate that.
My real problem is that we really needed a better lead-up to what happened with Kahless. We could have used a few more missions with Kahless to really introduce him and his motivations to our characters. Especially for Feds and Romulans. Like if he was feeling bored and abandoned on his honorary throne, left to wither and rot of old age as other warriors fight the Iconian threat. His connections with "House Pegh" and how he was able to get away from the homeworld to fight in a war we're not winning so far.
We needed to connect with him, have a few small successes with him or something to help us get to liking him more within the game. I'd totally be ok if a few missions were added before this one later on to make up for this.
Also, we "failed" the mission? What about the bombs we planted? Shouldn't they have been set off by timer or something when we left? Wasn't that our objective? I'm a little confused by that sequence of events, still...
All that aside, loved the new art done for this mission, those interiors are really unique!
I do think that this is a possiblity. And I would be disappointed if they did.
Summarizing the events, at first I was unsure about the depiciton of the characters in question. After thinking about it, I actively choose not to be offended by the depiction of the couple because I am willing to accept that they went for a "Klingon" type of relationship before they hopped on the "butch TRIBBLE" stereotype. I will point out that Cryptic's writing in this case is 'unfortunate' and by no means revolutionary, although for the sake of the game I have to positively mention the Klingon engineer B'Eler (the "mate") and the Klingon commander which do not strike me as typical Klingon stereotypes but open up a deeper depiction of Klingons.
I do have, however, to state that what I read in this and other threads really makes me sad. I've read statements from users in here which completely turned my perception of some members of this community upside down. That's damage that cannot possibly be undone. I am baffled at some statements claiming basically that Cryptic should cater to people which for some reason sport irrational refusal to equal treatment and depiction of human beings. Casaully depicting a homosexual couple should not be a bigger deal than depicting a heterosexual couple. For some people it is and they would wish no such depiciton should occur. This is something you cannot possibly reason, especially not to my face. If someone wants to try I invite them to do so in private, I hope without the reason being that they do not want to have a talk with their children.
I would be very disappointed if Cryptic would change two words of the dialogue for that reason. In any way, this has been a sad day for this community and Star Trek.
I fully agree. From a storytelling perspective, the stories' writing is lacking big time, especially considering the whole thing remains largely unresolved.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
News flash my friend. Kids are already exposed to it in real life. This is a real life thing. You can't keep hiding your kids from every little thing.
indeed, this is the world where we are living now. civilizations evolve, the individualities must also evolve. even if something is hidden, this thing continues to exist, and one day kids are confronted to this thing, this is why they must be prepared. this thing can be: homosexuality, violence, war, etc etc
why the love between 2 persons should be hidden; and this is about only feelings between 2 persons; no sex. your kids kill each time than they play at STO, tons of ennemies. Violence, war are more acceptable than the love??
It's bugged.
Tried doing it on 3 toons now and was only able to get the weekly reward of the spec point/universal upgrade token the first time.
why is this account-based???
that has never been the case with a reward before.
please fix.
nice episode though - enjoyed it
good job (apart from the reward bug (reported + ticket made)
They did it for "Uneasy allies" and "Blood of the warrior" too.
The main reward (special gear, the traits. etc) can be earned as often as one likes, but the first 3 weeks there is also a special reward (Tech upgrade/spec point) you are only able to earn once per week per account.
Join Starfleet,
Boldly go where no man has gone before,
Meet interesting new species, and Kill them!
The maddening thing as I see it when we are told to 'respect differing views' here is to actually consider what those views are. Despite whatever fanciful language is used - the differing view is "I don't want to see gays in the game." Which may or may not also include "I hate gays."
As someone who grew up 'as a spy' in one of the most extremist families possible I have great experience in this area and I can say that the only point of political discourse is to allow people to reveal their true feelings so you can avoid them in the future. My family, for example, would have a polite conversation with their jewish neighbors to their face and say they were pals, then go home and talk for hours about the evils of jews and what should be done to them. If the neighbors had access to those comments their relationship would be very different.
I do admit that my own childhood colors my opinion. I'm sure no one here can hold a candle to my parents in terms of genocidal racism and other fun filled forms of hate. And it does leave me with no patience whatsoever with racists and homophobes. Nor have I any interest in acquiring any. Does Cryptic want me to have patience with racists and homophobes?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
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My rational side agrees, but my naive, hopeful heart hopes we do
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Personally i have little to no tolerance for racists and homophobes either.
Having said that i can't stomach the attitude displayed by some in this topic either that anyone who doesn't embrace equal rights for LGBT and the inclusion of the couple in the FE is:
- a racist
- bigot
- homophobe
- closet homosexual
- all of the above and worse.
The militant behaviour is sickening.
Even those who advocated for 'separate but equal' payed lip service to the term equal.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm not sure if you realize something:
that this COULD be interpreted as homophobia. Not extreme physical homophobia, but still could be considered as this?
Especially since, once again, it's only 2 things:
-a "mate" casually mentioned by Ramir
-the mentioned mate being female (which was mentioned in the game 5 years ago for an unrelated mission)
No blog saying "come and see the first LGBT couple of STO!", no continuation on the subject after the first argument (and the argument wasn't even about their sexuality), nothing.
The whole "they made her grumpy because she's TRIBBLE, I am deeply offended for the lesbians!" is just an interpretation which is not shared by everyone.
Some think it's because she's an over-protective Klingon period, others think it's because you come in and tell her girlfriend we should toss her calculations away and do something else, and there could even be other possibilities, like being discriminated elsewhere by other Klingons.
And I won't go again about the "think of the children!", "this has no place in a MMO", "I'm offended to see gays everywhere!", "it's a liberal conspiracy", etc...
It was you who "surprised" me in that matter. In one posting you said homosexual relationships were controversial. As with another issue, I actively chose to not be offended by that because I figured you weren't saying that the actual existing of homosexual relationships was controversial but you meant the fact that there are plenty of people who openly oppose equal rights for whatever irrational reasons and one has to expect some of those voices to be heard after having those characters in the mission.
Your "solution" was to not include such "controversial" themes, make them invisible and never talk about them. Do you honestly believe this is the right way to handle things? Catering to some irrational, unjustifyable "fears" and supporting them by cocnealing everything going contrary to their believes? Would you support to limit the privilege of free speech because people might say something somebody will be offended about as well?
This game is still based on Star Trek. A show that in it's basic principle portrayed humanities strife to improve itself, to embrace different points of view and reaching out in friendship and understanding. If we start to remove signs of equal rights in that universe because some people carry some irrational denial within them I would call it a giant blow for our society.
And if anybody truly believes one throw-away line of already established characters was only implemented to "get them" those people have serious mental issues that I don't say are easy to deal with but the problem definitely lies not with this game and TRIBBLE klingons.
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I guess since you don't actually see her 'mate' it doesn't mean anything.
It's ironic that those who strongly advocate equal rights for LGBT are those who shout the loudest and create rifts between homosexuals and heterosexuals.
It is my opinion that mature content (openly sexual behaviour) and sexual preferences should be kept out of the gaming context. These things add nothing to the game and are bound to create adverse reactions.
Let's also face reality, what did the addition of a TRIBBLE couple with all the stereotypes attached add to the story of the FE? Nothing at all.
It is the militant "us vs them" which is the biggest danger for the equal rights movement for LGBT.
I previously mentioned this, but in the Netherlands in which a lot of progress has been made (e.g. TRIBBLE marriage, equal status for insurance, TRIBBLE pride parades and equal rights for adoption) public support is diminishing because of the often militant attitude of the LGBT movement.
In other words, you're your own worst enemy.
For those who choose to label me a homophobe, bigot, closet homosexual etc. etc. I'd say go ahead but i am glad i am not responsible for your ignorance.
I support equality for all, but i do not support militant tactics used by those on either side of the barricades.
Its not often I agree with you, but yeah. I completely expected there to be some people who would come to the forums and voice their disgust. But for a moderator to post border line hate speak? That really threw me for a loop, especially when said mod was someone I had had a lot of respect for previously for how they've handled hot button issues in the past.
Is this really the stance you want to take Bluegeek?
Do you really wish to tell us all that you run through life with a sword in one hand and a torch in the other when it comes to social progression?
That you define love as an "obscenity"?
You truely are an empty man, and I pity you.