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Featured Episode: House Pegh Now Live!

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  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    xyquarze wrote: »
    The question remains, though, who is really trying to force the other side?

    TRIBBLE people and their biased liberal supporters who want you to accept their way of life?

    Or those who want TRIBBLE people to not exist or at least not be visible, thus forcing them to not lead a normal life with a household and similar stuff?

    Both are forcing in a way, but the second intrusion into other people's lifes seems way more massive to me.

    To be honest, both have factions that are trying to force things upon the other. As much as there are Westboro Baptists, there are Code Pink'ers that do the same thing, but on the other end of the spectrum.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,488 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    While I agree, I have no issue with a parent "vetting" the content that thier child is exposed to. Thats part of being a parent. The issue that Bluegeek is mentionng, I think, is that he considers the content has changed with this (probably for his younger child), not because. He hates a group of people, but that he may now have to explain things to his child that he might wanted to have put off to a later time. After filtering, he may decide to restrict the younger children from the game if he feels that its past what he is ing to discuss with them at the moment. His decision either way.

    Honestly, it amazes me how many parents let a child play a game and dont do research into the content.

    How do you come to the conclusion that he hates a group of people? There is nothing in his post to suggest such a thing. I DO read concern about content and exposing his children to certain concepts before they are ready for it.

    When i was doing some volunteers work on a children's camp a few years ago there was a TRIBBLE couple (male) who brought their child. One girl from about 10 years old was looking quite confused and when i asked her about it she said she didn't understand how a child could have two daddies because her parents told her that babies came from a mother's belly.

    Had to scratch behind my ears as well while trying to think on how to explain it. Luckily one of the female volunteers overheard and managed to explain it.

    Bottom line is that children at certain ages perceive the world completely different than we do and as a (foster) parent i can certainly understand that parents want to introduce things to their children at a pace THEY are comfortable with. Having certain (borderline mature) things come up in a game puts parents in a position where they have to answer questions where possibly neither they nor the child are ready for at that time.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I didnt say it had anything to do with TRIBBLE sex, its never been about TRIBBLE sex. Due to your situation, you were exposed to same sex relationships at a young age, so was I. If you didnt notcie the many times I have mntioned, I refer to younger children that probably havent had the sex talk (like the 7 year old of my friend). Having to explain same sex relationships can lead quickly to asking about sex itself, something a parent typiclally want to put off until they think they are ready to understand it.

    I have also mentioned that parents of children that they allow to play a game that is more mature than they are should monitor and filter it, so to the very least they can be prepared to discuss things with thier child.

    As far as what I would do in the situation you gave? First, I hope that my child is at an age and wisdom that can understand what I have to discuss with them. Then I will be as honest as I can with them. But I really hope that that discussion wont happen until after I can discuss with them about where babies come from first. I dont want to have to do a double discussion on those topics all at once, which a relative of mine did have to do at the same time, stemming from tthe discussion kn same sex relationships.

    What I was trying to say is there is no reason to have the sex talk when explaining homosexuality. If you keep it in kid terms, saying some people like boys and others like girls, it should be sufficient. I mean kids know about romance from a young age, they understand that grown ups love one another, but what sheltered kids don't know is that sometimes prince charming kisses another prince, rather than a princess.

    The sex talk isn't necessary after a kid watches snow white or the little mermaid, why is it necessary when they see a boy kiss a boy? Or hear a girl refer to another girl as their mate/wife/girlfriend?
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  • papasezpapasez Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    Well the common response to anyone that doesn't like something in the game applies: "Don't like it, don't play it." It's really as simple as that. To all those that are so offended, can I haz your stuffs? I think the Devs added a subtle and classy addition of IDIC in this episode.

    Oh but the children, the CHILDREN!!! So 97% naked orions complete with a sexual trait, the summer orgy event, a male NPC watching a male NPC stripper, essentially having furries represented in game with Cataian/Faresians, Not to mention the mass slaughter of the Acamarians, Borg, Breen, Cardassian, Gorn, Federation species, Heralds, Kazon, Klingons, Malon, Nausicaans, Orions, Romulans, Remans, Tholians, and Vaaudwar just to name a few. My main toon has killed more people than every evil person that has ever existed during recorded history. All that is okay with some, but the briefest inclusion of a same sex couple sends you into Picard rage?

    Lily Sloane: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale!
    Jean-Luc Picard: [offended] What?
    Sloane: You do have books in the 24th-century?
    Picard: This is not about homophobia!
    Sloane: Liar!
    Picard: [agitated] This is about saving the future of our precious children!
    Sloane: Jean-Luc, they're just people in relationships!!!
    Picard: NO! NOOOOOOOOO!!! [smashes a display case in anger; Both pause, shocked] I will not sacrifice the status quo. We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our television, and we fall back. They start blogs and websites, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!
    Sloane: [looking at the broken remains of the Enterprise-D model] You broke your little ship. [pause] See you around, Ahab.
    Picard: [softly, to himself] "And he piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon he would have shot his heart upon it."
    Sloane: What?
    Picard: Moby ****.
    Sloane: Actually, I never read it.
    Picard: Ahab spent years hunting the white whale that crippled him; but in the end, it destroyed him and his ship.
    Sloane: I guess he didn't know when to quit.

    It's a game, get a grip.

    Perfect. Just perfect, kudos! /golf clap /cap doff
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This is a discussion about a video game here, so maybe going all culture jihad over it is a bit uncalled for, guys. This is completely trivial and has a tiny effect on anything in anyone's actual life. Try to have some perspective, jeez.
  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The sex talk isn't necessary after a kid watches snow white or the little mermaid, why is it necessary when they see a boy kiss a boy? Or hear a girl refer to another girl as their mate/wife/girlfriend?

    Yeah this.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    questerius wrote: »
    How do you come to the conclusion that he hates a group of people? There is nothing in his post to suggest such a thing. I DO read concern about content and exposing his children to certain concepts before they are ready for it.

    When i was doing some volunteers work on a children's camp a few years ago there was a TRIBBLE couple (male) who brought their child. One girl from about 10 years old was looking quite confused and when i asked her about it she said she didn't understand how a child could have two daddies because her parents told her that babies came from a mother's belly.

    Had to scratch behind my ears as well while trying to think on how to explain it. Luckily one of the female volunteers overheard and managed to explain it.

    Bottom line is that children at certain ages perceive the world completely different than we do and as a (foster) parent i can certainly understand that parents want to introduce things to their children at a pace THEY are comfortable with. Having certain (borderline mature) things come up in a game puts parents in a position where they have to answer questions where possibly neither they nor the child are ready for at that time.

    That was a typo, it was supposed to be "not because he hates a group of people". I edited it. stooooopid smartphone small buttons and autp correct.
  • hakazehakaze Member Posts: 81 Media Corps
    edited May 2015
    questerius wrote: »
    Well at least it wasn't so bad that your eyeballs popped out and spontaneously exploded.
    Unless you were typing blind there in which case i owe you an apology.

    it's okay just a minor case of bleeding eyes from it, nothing a hypo can't fix :P
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  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What I was trying to say is there is no reason to have the sex talk when explaining homosexuality. If you keep it in kid terms, saying some people like boys and others like girls, it should be sufficient. I mean kids know about romance from a young age, they understand that grown ups love one another, but what sheltered kids don't know is that sometimes prince charming kisses another prince, rather than a princess.

    The sex talk isn't necessary after a kid watches snow white or the little mermaid, why is it necessary when they see a boy kiss a boy? Or hear a girl refer to another girl as their mate/wife/girlfriend?

    My cousin had a young daughter (6) that asked about same sex relationship and then wanted to have it rationalized on how two boys or two girls can be together and have children and it ended up devolving into a biology lesson that my cousin wasn't ready for.
  • valarauko43valarauko43 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I played through the episode before I read any of the replies in this thread. My first thought upon seeing the first negative comment about the so called sexual preference issue...I heard "Dean Keaton" explaining, calmly at first, that there was no sex. If you know that scene then you know how emphatic he gets about their being NO F-ING SEX!!! I know I substituted sex for coke, but that really was what came to mind. Captains, it is this simple to me. I am about to go disagree with the mission "detailer" (because,Scripted) and am warned that the person I am about to speak to has an over-protective mate. Change mate to child, sibling, or anything else not sexual sounding and the scene still plays the same for me. Because I said "No, I am changing the plan". I admit that I was a little taken aback by the implication of jealousy when he said his line, but then the rest of the conversation happened and I realized that I just told a junior officer NO. Usually they push us Generals and Admirals around like we don't know which way up is. This time I said NO...Not your way...My way. It would not matter if it was her mate, mom, wife, husband, son, daughter or hairdresser. I said NO to someone she cared about. Regarding the rest of the episode, I thought it was great. The only complaint is one mentioned by another person...that Construct getting stuck in the wall ("Lurch" not happy, "Lurch" walks away shaking head, groans.). Thanks for the episode, the artwork, and the spec. point.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    My cousin had a young daughter (6) that asked about same sex relationship and then wanted to have it rationalized on how two boys or two girls can be together and have children and it ended up devolving into a biology lesson that my cousin wasn't ready for.

    With so many same sex partners adopting now, this will become a pretty standard question soon anyway. Imho, the easiest way to answer would be to simply, and correctly, say adoption, and if they continue to ask for details you are not ready to give, tell them they'll understand when they get older. People already give that answer often enough when asked where babies come from.

    Now, if you want an awkward question, heres one I've faced countless times. As I said my father is TRIBBLE (not bi, TRIBBLE), but he is also my biological father, and my parents were married. Explaining how I exist and why my parents were married is far more complicated than explaining how two guys or two girls have a kid. And no, my father was not in the closet when he met my mother, and she knew his last relationship had been with a guy.
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think it's a shame that this is something you feel the need to filter a child's exposure to although I commend your level of dedication as a parent.

    Up until now, there were few things in STO I felt the need to filter. There is combat, but it's not gory and it is, after all, about a war. My acceptance of some aspects of STO does not oblige me to accept every other aspect and I do indeed limit what my kids play.
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    My biggest hope out of all this mess is that the Devs, writers and PWE do not back track on this groundbreaking addition to the game to do so would only pamper to the minority while excluding the group of people who for one praise this addition.
    .

    I support your right to your opinion. I do, however, take a little exception to the phrase "pander to the minority". That's not an opinion. That's a direct shot at trying to de-legitimize a segment of players whose opinions are somehow not worth being heard. It's also not a factual comment, unless perhaps Cryptic has polled their players to see how many players share that point of view?

    To be clear, I am not asking them to take the characters out. I'm more realistic than that. They're already there and modifying the mission to take them out or change them is far more trouble than it's worth to them. Not going to happen, and I can accept that.

    At any rate, one mission does not necessarily set an ongoing precedent.

    I only want Cryptic to take note of the fact that the inclusion of these two characters is not universally supported. I want them to know that I'm disappointed that they did this, why I'm disappointed, and that it does affect my desire to keep playing the game and to let my kids keep playing the game.

    I do not want to be insensitive or create a hostile environment for anyone here. We're all human beings and we share that identity in common. There are people here I like because I like them as people, not because they're in lockstep with everything I believe. I do not want anyone to feel as if they're going to be attacked or dismissed as not being worth listening to the second they post here. We all deserve to be treated with sensitivity as fellow human beings, because that's true no matter what we believe.

    I only wish people would extend me the same courtesy.
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  • dheffernandheffernan Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    A kid being exposed to the concept of homosexuality needs no more explanation than "some people like boys, some like girls" or some such.

    This is one of the problems with the issue. A lot of people, mainly on the political left, do not understand that children are not small adults. You can't "just explain it" to them. Especially not when the issue is complex enough that the actual adults are still arguing over it.

    Again: the mere existence of this much controversy over the issue is sufficient to demonstrate its unsuitability for the venue. Either slap a mature rating on the game or monitor the content appropriately.
    @Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,326 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    bluegeek wrote: »
    Up until now, there were few things in STO I felt the need to filter. There is combat, but it's not gory and it is, after all, about a war. My acceptance of some aspects of STO does not oblige me to accept every other aspect and I do indeed limit what my kids play.

    .

    I support your right to your opinion. I do, however, take a little exception to the phrase "pander to the minority". That's not an opinion. That's a direct shot at trying to de-legitimize a segment of players whose opinions are somehow not worth being heard. It's also not a factual comment, unless perhaps Cryptic has polled their players to see how many players share that point of view?

    To be clear, I am not asking them to take the characters out. I'm more realistic than that. They're already there and modifying the mission to take them out or change them is far more trouble than it's worth to them. Not going to happen, and I can accept that.

    At any rate, one mission does not necessarily set an ongoing precedent.

    I only want Cryptic to take note of the fact that the inclusion of these two characters is not universally supported. I want them to know that I'm disappointed that they did this, why I'm disappointed, and that it does affect my desire to keep playing the game and to let my kids keep playing the game.

    I do not want to be insensitive or create a hostile environment for anyone here. We're all human beings and we share that identity in common. There are people here I like because I like them as people, not because they're in lockstep with everything I believe. I do not want anyone to feel as if they're going to be attacked or dismissed as not being worth listening to the second they post here. We all deserve to be treated with sensitivity as fellow human beings, because that's true no matter what we believe.

    I only wish people would extend me the same courtesy.

    I'd like to point out the game's rating. I know you want to filter what you're kids are playing but if you're letting them play something with this game's rating you got to be aware there will be thing that kids might not be ready for or that you aren't ready for discussing with them.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,120 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dheffernan wrote: »
    This is one of the problems with the issue. A lot of people, mainly on the political left, do not understand that children are not small adults. You can't "just explain it" to them. Especially not when the issue is complex enough that the actual adults are still arguing over it.

    This very much depends on what you understand when you use the term "explain".

    It is not at all a problem to explain that mostly boys like girls and vice versa, but sometimes boys like boys and girls like girls. This is not in the least difficult and can be understood by any kid who understands the concept of liking others. And there is no adult arguing about that fact, that this happens.

    If, however, you want to include all the different moral/political stances, implications and suchlike, then of course it will completely overwhelm children. But you do not need to do that in the first talk. And if they ask questions, decide how much they can handle, use white lies, and block off the rest - as you regularily do as parents. Just as you don't with other aspects of life. Or are you explaining all the wars in this game with all the implications? Yes, the world and life will be simplified for children, less and less so as they grow older.

    But don't underestimate children. They can understand the simple basic fact that sometimes men like men. Just like daddy likes mommy. And yes, they can also understand that people sometimes are different in some things.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dheffernan wrote: »
    This is one of the problems with the issue. A lot of people, mainly on the political left, do not understand that children are not small adults. You can't "just explain it" to them. Especially not when the issue is complex enough that the actual adults are still arguing over it.

    It's actually quite easy to explain to children that not all families are the same, if you try explaining it without disapproval.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I wouldn't be overly surprised to see them remove the content. Even if they do I'll still be very proud of the team that made it and got it in the game. For me it was by far the best moment in 4 years of STO. Well, I also enjoyed playing every mission with my mate this past month as delta recruits.
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    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    RIGHT...

    guys.

    How about that mission?
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  • tuskin67tuskin67 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I want them to know that I'm disappointed that they did this, why I'm disappointed, and that it does affect my desire to keep playing the game and to let my kids keep playing the game.

    How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one? They've both people who love each other.
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I enjoyed the mission overall, though I did have some trouble with crashes during the ground portions. And the space battle at the end was a little much. But the story was pretty good, and I'm glad we didn't have a complete victory for once.
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    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,326 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    tuskin67 wrote: »
    How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one?

    Because he disapproves of homosexual relationships. Its really only different if you disapprove of them.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    (Spoilers ahead.)

    * * *

    Having played the mission now, I enjoyed it until the end of the ground segment. Kahless had outside help (which was needed), but kept gloating about honor until the end. 2v1 is not really honorable. And emergency transport? Heck no. I wanted to stay and kick their alien butts into the next galaxy. Or at least attempt to retrieve the Kahless Sword. Overall, that last bit felt rushed. I know it's war and losses are going to happen, I was disappointed at how quickly the heroes gave up and beamed away.

    I throrougly enjoyed the Iconian Nightclub though. :)
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  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Alright, some actually constructive criticism:
    • Bit short
    • The ground section should have been much more stealthy, like Dragon's Deceit, rather than just shooting wandering mobs.
    • They should have made the (obvious to me but apparently not to everyone else) reason for the emergency beam out more clear.
    • The ending fight in space was a bit anticlimactic.

    Other than that, I had no problems with the mission.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    tuskin67 wrote: »
    How is exposing your kids to a homosexual relationship any different then a heterosexual one? They've both people who love each other.

    Some approve it, some don't. Where the issue lies is how tolerant others are to each view. And respect their view of it.

    Personally I don't like homosexual relationships. I respect that is who they are, but on the other hand you have to respect my decision based off my belief. That is true tolerance.
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  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,120 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I do accept that people feel uncomfortable about same sex relationships. That is who they are. I do not respect when said people want others to hide their same sex attraction, want third parties to keep the fact of same sex attraction out of everyday life. If homosexuals should hide who they are then those opposing them need to do the same and not talk about their dislike at all and keep it confined to their own homes.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    farmallm wrote: »
    Some approve it, some don't. Where the issue lies is how tolerant others are to each view. And respect their view of it.

    Personally I don't like homosexual relationships. I respect that is who they are, but on the other hand you have to respect my decision based off my belief. That is true tolerance.

    Nobody has to like TRIBBLE relationships. That's acceptance, not tolerance. However, some of what i am seeing in here is not tolerance at all.

    "TRIBBLE people shouldn't be seen in media that my kids might see, because it's your responsibility to hide from my kids so they're not exposed to you" is not respectful nor tolerant. Even if you phrase it carefully.
  • ageroth1ageroth1 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Possible spoilers:

    One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ageroth1 wrote: »
    Possible spoilers:

    One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?

    Yes. Possibly that blue Iconian from the loading screens? We haven't seen that one yet, only M'Tara (purple) and T'Ket (red).
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  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2015
    ageroth1 wrote: »
    Possible spoilers:

    One of the extra consoles in the mission said something curious.. I get the impression there's an Iconian who may not be like the rest. Hopefully many of you have found it. Any thoughts on this subject?

    Didn't see that console I don't think. But thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to look for it on my next run through.
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  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Did anyone else get the impression that the archetecture of the iconian facility was strikingly similar to the interior of the Farpoint aliens from Encounter at Farpoint?
This discussion has been closed.