Dumb question if Klingons are so bad at science why did they make time devices before the oh so scientific federation?
And if it take a kick starter project to get the devs to start balancing out the factions I'd pay but I'd be very unhappy about it.
The Feds had mastered time travel by the late 23rd century and sent the Enterprise on temporal recon assignments in a few TOS episodes. The Feds rejected using the technology until everyone else started using it, which forced them to use it to keep up.
He built it, as to why a KLINGON built it first-it's because the wussies at Daystrom insisted it was impossible and the very well established Federation Science community listened to them, doing the safe thing...while the Klingon actually built it to prove his theories correct, risks and all.
Yep, so martok needs to suddenly appear alive with a huge fleet of Klingon time ships who have been secretly hiding in different places in time to train to fight the undine but since we already have beaten them decide not to waste the nice fleet use it against the iconians.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
The Feds had mastered time travel by the late 23rd century and sent the Enterprise on temporal recon assignments in a few TOS episodes. The Feds rejected using the technology until everyone else started using it, which forced them to use it to keep up.
They had methods of time travel. Like the slingshot around the sun thing but not devices.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
This thread takes me back to the City of Heroes forums when the die hard villain players would whine that the devs hated villains because they never added new villain content.
They simply couldn't get it thru their heads that most players played heroes because that's what they fell in love with about the genre. Just like how most players here play Feds because the Feds are what they fell in love with about the IP.
It sucks but it's a simple fact that the faction that is the most popular and makes the most money is going to be the faction that gets the most development.
Yet every multi faction mmo I've play not made by cryptic has kept things even. So what facts are you talking about cryptic has a history of TRIBBLE up multi faction games maybe?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yes, yes I know how Janeway got it. But how did the Klingon get it first. :P
We don't know for a fact how got what tech how and when in many, many cases.
But it seems the assumption works like this:
- tech x appears in Federation hands so it was invented by the Federation because they're smart and the fact that they invented this tech is proof that they're smart
assumption becomes fact
- tech y appears in Klingon hands so it was stolen by the Klingons because they're dumb and the fact that they stole this tech is proof that they're too dumb to invent it themselves
assumption becomes fact yet again
:rolleyes:
I have an equal amount of kdf, rom and fed characters and play each faction the same amount.
I know feds are the most popular with many players but this is only because many of the players are star trek fans and feds were the lead faction in the TV shows, stands to reason they would be the most popular.
just the same as that other MMO with star in the title where jedi knights are the most popular characters, as they were the hero`s of the movies.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I have an equal amount of kdf, rom and fed characters and play each faction the same amount.
I know feds are the most popular with many players but this is only because many of the players are star trek fans and feds were the lead faction in the TV shows, stands to reason they would be the most popular.
just the same as that other MMO with star in the title where jedi knights are the most popular characters, as they were the hero`s of the movies.
Really? Last I heard sith... Actually the empire period were more popular. Well the only consist is change.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I primarily play Fed, and I have no problem with KDF/Roms getting a bit of attention in the ships department.
At the very least, give them access to those good shiptraits...
Because STO players like to play Armchair Economist and suddenly know business logic while simultaneously being incredibly selfish towards their form of game play; "Well I don't RP/PvP/KDF, so no! They shouldn't get anything!"
But no one plays them because Feds get all of the new shinies.
Back when you had to make a level 30 (or was it even higher rank) Fed to get to the KDF, the first thing I did when I made this KDF was to eradicate that toon, and make a full Klingon account.
The KDF has always been the underdog, in many a game, the "bad" ones are the underdog for some reason.
No one wants to play such side, dunno why, maybe they all think they're better than that?
Or maybe, like in the movie franchise everywhere, Humanity is so supreme, and we have to play this?
At any rate, Feds always had the better, the more, but I frankly don't give a bloody fudge.
If any of you think, it's Cryptic's fault, that the Roms and Klinks are the forgotten sides.... think again.
Mirror might help.
Yes, dear players, it is YOU that chooses not to play these sides.
Cryptic does not choose for you...
There is no: *Force wave" "Play a Fed, you will, yes? Hmmm?" XD
personally I think the lack of friendly Coop play is what has always held back the KDF
Its too hard to team with the Feds
We cant use each others homeworlds and bases
We don't have content designed for coop play
This alone imo is what holds back the KDF from being a more popular faction
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
But that's kind of the circular logic mentioned earlier, no?
Give a subpar version of the DSSV as the only option (paid option for that subpar version compared to the free superior version Feds get)...some folks bought it...some didn't. Is that saying that folks don't want KDF Science Vessels or is that saying folks didn't want that KDF Science Vessel.
The ADSDs were pretty much a fail around...faction didn't matter...so those wouldn't come into it.
What if they did...DSSV, RSV, and some mix of the Nebula/D'Kyr...covering three basic styles there, yeah? Sure, there would be the folks that might have wanted a Klingon instead of Orion or a Nausicaan instead of Gorn or...etc, etc, etc...but with actual choices, they could have turned around and said - nobody bought them, we're not doing any more unless something really awesome comes up that we might be able to copypasta from Fed to KDF that might sell.
Admittedly the Varanus was bad and it's sales could only be used to keep track of people who wanted a KDF science vessel bad enough to settle for the Varanus. The Dyson Science Destroyers though looked pretty solid to me, but then again I don't fly science vessels so if someone who does tells me they suck or fail, sure I'll believe them.
But how many KDF players requisitioned Orb Weavers, Koraths or Palisades?
Between the five ships available to KDF players for their varying amounts of money and effort, I believe there are enough metrics available to determine what kind of demand the KDF player base will have for a science vessel. Particularly since I don't think Cryptic is likely to produce a KDF equivalent to the Vesta any more than they'll make a Starfleet equivalent to the B'Rel.
Admittedly the Varanus was bad and it's sales could only be used to keep track of people who wanted a KDF science vessel bad enough to settle for the Varanus. The Dyson Science Destroyers though looked pretty solid to me, but then again I don't fly science vessels so if someone who does tells me they suck or fail, sure I'll believe them.
But how many KDF players requisitioned Orb Weavers, Koraths or Palisades?
Between the five ships available to KDF players for their varying amounts of money and effort, I believe there are enough metrics available to determine what kind of demand the KDF player base will have for a science vessel. Particularly since I don't think Cryptic is likely to produce a KDF equivalent to the Vesta any more than they'll make a Starfleet equivalent to the B'Rel.
Well lets break this down to understandable levels.
You're going to buy a car. They all cost the same amout of money, and you choices are
Well lets break this down to understandable levels.
You're going to buy a car. They all cost the same amout of money, and you choices are
Federation gets a Mercedez.
KDF gets a Hyuandai
Roms get a Kia.
Which one are you going to buy?
Your attempt to simplify how you feel is appreciated. However, the post you are responding to is not a discussion of which faction has better science vessels, it's rather a discussion of whether Cryptic can be reasonably expected to have accurate metrics for the demand amongst KDF buyers for the science vessel that Cryptic is planning to release to them after more popular ship classes.
Now, whether what the KDF eventually gets is the Hyundai I expect, whether the KDF should even expect a Mercedez or be happy with a Hyundai because of the acknowledged need for faction identity in ship choices, and whether the KDF having the option of leaving that lot and instead heading over to Honest Lobi's Lockbox Emporium and purchasing the Ferrari that's available to all factions effects the dialogue at all are all interesting questions deserving of their own discussion.
Oh, and to answer your question, my main is a KDF Aligned Alien from the Romulan Faction, he's saving up for a lockbox ship. But if I were in the market for a science vessel to use as a transition ship towards my final goal, it'd be the KIA.
Your attempt to simplify how you feel is appreciated. However, the post you are responding to is not a discussion of which faction has better science vessels, it's rather a discussion of whether Cryptic can be reasonably expected to have accurate metrics for the demand amongst KDF buyers for the science vessel that Cryptic is planning to release to them after more popular ship classes.
Now, whether what the KDF eventually gets is the Hyundai I expect, whether the KDF should expect a Mercedez or be happy with a Hyundai because of the acknowledged need for faction identity in ship choices, and whether the KDF having the option of leaving that lot and instead heading over to Honest Lobi's Lockbox Emporium and purchasing the Ferrari that's available to all factions effects the discussion at all are all interesting questions deserving of their own discussion.
Oh, and to answer your question, my main is a KDF Aligned Alien from the Romulan Faction, he's saving up for a lockbox ship. But if I were in the market for a science vessel to use as a transition ship towards my final goal, it'd be the KIA.
*nods* That's my point. For those of us already dealing with the problems the KDF and Romulans have. We have to make those hard choices. I spend most of my time on my Klingon Tac officer. I may occassionally bounce over to my Orion Sci, or one of my Fed chars. Which puts me to buying the Hyuandai.
But for most, and economically speaking, when presented with that kind of choice. They're going to opt for the better buy, which in this case is the Mercedez. That's the route that they're going to go. More bang for your buck as it were.
Like for my Klingon Tac. I'd love to have that Mercedez. But my selection is limited. I was thinking the Matha, since I play the cannon/torp build, it fits right in there. Though with them working on a new T6 BoP I have wait and see how the two compare.
My Orion Sci officer on the hand. I've been over ships so many times. Trying to find that one that would work. My only viable option that works is the Fleet Corsair. I would opt for the T6 Science Command battlecruiser, but its an Engineer ship and not a Science ship. Putting me in that difficult spot of which ship to use.
The Romulans as you have pointed out are in the same boat as the KDF.
The Federation however, always gets the mercedez.
And as I pointed out in my previous post. The only way to fix is, is to stop playing as a Federation Officer and start playing Romulan or KDF more. Not a choice most will make. Because look at what you're giving up compared to what you're gaining.
This is without the lockbox ships. Because those are a breed of their own.
Yeah, don't understand the analogy. It might make sense if you explained why you chose those options, but as-is it reads like hyperbole.
Honestly if you really want better KDF science ships... Well someone made the thread, but please do go and discuss them.
That was me on the KDF Science Ship thread. Which actually went well. With the help of those that participate with feed back and even flaming, we put together a good basic T6 that is now down in the Kligon Fleetyard. Though, I have to say it's gotten more attention here than down there.
How do we convince you that we would? People would kill for a T6 BoP or a proper Romulan Sci ship. It's not overly hard to design one (stats wise) and I think people would be just fine if you re-used an existing model.
Option 1. Kickstarter-like system that has Cryptic list what ships for Feds, KDF, and Romulans they have in mind (which will be sold individually or in cross-faction bundles) and players vote with their wallets (in Zen; at 500 Zen off the final store price for single ships or the straight bundle cost). Meet the goal, your Zen is taken, and you get the ship (or ship bundles). Fail to meet it, you get your Zen back, and nothing happens. The design plan is tossed or shelved for a future attempt with amendments, depending on if any Devs liked the idea enough to reconsider in the future. A new set of paper ship stats is released for a new funding campaign and the process repeats. The minimum goal is the cost required to break even.
- The catch: The ships would be at near-final state stat-wise (as in the paper plan is already final; they just have to see if it's worth coding; suggestions will not be taken), but may have either a new visual body or reuse of an existing body.
- Stretch Goal: Meet the stretch goal and get the ship fully mastered and the Mastery trait added to your Starship Trait list. Only applies to those who committed.
Option 2. Create a Fed equivalent, then create cross-faction ships based on it (Command Cruisers, DSDs, Odyssey/Bortasqu).
Option 3. Take an existing ship, and create other faction equivalents if they don't exist (KDF BoP and the Aquarius, needs a Rom "BoP").
Option 4. Take an existing ship of the Fed side and its near faction equivalents, and create a new successor series based on them (Galaxy/Negh/DD Cross faction bundle).
Option 1. Kickstarter-like system that has Cryptic list what ships for Feds, KDF, and Romulans they have in mind (which will be sold individually or in cross-faction bundles) and players vote with their wallets (in Zen; at 500 Zen off the final store price for single ships or the straight bundle cost). Meet the goal, your Zen is taken, and you get the ship (or ship bundles). Fail to meet it, you get your Zen back, and nothing happens. The design plan is tossed or shelved for a future attempt with amendments, depending on if any Devs liked the idea enough to reconsider in the future. A new set of paper ship stats is released for a new funding campaign and the process repeats. The minimum goal is the cost required to break even.
- The catch: The ships would be at near-final state stat-wise (as in the paper plan is already final; they just have to see if it's worth coding; suggestions will not be taken), but may have either a new visual body or reuse of an existing body.
- Stretch Goal: Meet the stretch goal and get the ship fully mastered and the Mastery trait added to your Starship Trait list. Only applies to those who committed.
Option 2. Create a Fed equivalent, then create cross-faction ships based on it (Command Cruisers, DSDs, Odyssey/Bortasqu).
Option 3. Take an existing ship, and create other faction equivalents if they don't exist (KDF BoP and the Aquarius, needs a Rom "BoP").
Option 4. Take an existing ship of the Fed side and its near faction equivalents, and create a new successor series based on them (Galaxy/Negh/DD Cross faction bundle).
Waste of time. Cryptic already has the metrics to know which ships will sell and to how many people well enough to direct their effort reasonably well. The only thing this set up will do is disabuse people of the notion that knowing three people who want the same ship is the same as there being a market.
Comments
The Feds had mastered time travel by the late 23rd century and sent the Enterprise on temporal recon assignments in a few TOS episodes. The Feds rejected using the technology until everyone else started using it, which forced them to use it to keep up.
Yep, so martok needs to suddenly appear alive with a huge fleet of Klingon time ships who have been secretly hiding in different places in time to train to fight the undine but since we already have beaten them decide not to waste the nice fleet use it against the iconians.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
They had methods of time travel. Like the slingshot around the sun thing but not devices.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yet every multi faction mmo I've play not made by cryptic has kept things even. So what facts are you talking about cryptic has a history of TRIBBLE up multi faction games maybe?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Er...could you name some? A few? Um...
We don't know for a fact how got what tech how and when in many, many cases.
But it seems the assumption works like this:
- tech x appears in Federation hands so it was invented by the Federation because they're smart and the fact that they invented this tech is proof that they're smart
assumption becomes fact
- tech y appears in Klingon hands so it was stolen by the Klingons because they're dumb and the fact that they stole this tech is proof that they're too dumb to invent it themselves
assumption becomes fact yet again
:rolleyes:
*looks at swtor* do I really need to say it.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I know feds are the most popular with many players but this is only because many of the players are star trek fans and feds were the lead faction in the TV shows, stands to reason they would be the most popular.
just the same as that other MMO with star in the title where jedi knights are the most popular characters, as they were the hero`s of the movies.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Really? Last I heard sith... Actually the empire period were more popular. Well the only consist is change.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Why are people argueing against this?
I primarily play Fed, and I have no problem with KDF/Roms getting a bit of attention in the ships department.
At the very least, give them access to those good shiptraits...
then you are rare one around here.
Any chance I could talk you into joining the empire, we have barely dressed green women. :P
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Because STO players like to play Armchair Economist and suddenly know business logic while simultaneously being incredibly selfish towards their form of game play; "Well I don't RP/PvP/KDF, so no! They shouldn't get anything!"
The KDF has always been the underdog, in many a game, the "bad" ones are the underdog for some reason.
No one wants to play such side, dunno why, maybe they all think they're better than that?
Or maybe, like in the movie franchise everywhere, Humanity is so supreme, and we have to play this?
At any rate, Feds always had the better, the more, but I frankly don't give a bloody fudge.
If any of you think, it's Cryptic's fault, that the Roms and Klinks are the forgotten sides.... think again.
Mirror might help.
Yes, dear players, it is YOU that chooses not to play these sides.
Cryptic does not choose for you...
There is no: *Force wave" "Play a Fed, you will, yes? Hmmm?" XD
Its too hard to team with the Feds
We cant use each others homeworlds and bases
We don't have content designed for coop play
This alone imo is what holds back the KDF from being a more popular faction
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Back when I played SW-G there were vastly more Jedi than there were Sith.
Never played SW-TOR...
Admittedly the Varanus was bad and it's sales could only be used to keep track of people who wanted a KDF science vessel bad enough to settle for the Varanus. The Dyson Science Destroyers though looked pretty solid to me, but then again I don't fly science vessels so if someone who does tells me they suck or fail, sure I'll believe them.
But how many KDF players requisitioned Orb Weavers, Koraths or Palisades?
Between the five ships available to KDF players for their varying amounts of money and effort, I believe there are enough metrics available to determine what kind of demand the KDF player base will have for a science vessel. Particularly since I don't think Cryptic is likely to produce a KDF equivalent to the Vesta any more than they'll make a Starfleet equivalent to the B'Rel.
Well lets break this down to understandable levels.
You're going to buy a car. They all cost the same amout of money, and you choices are
Federation gets a Mercedez.
KDF gets a Hyuandai
Roms get a Kia.
Which one are you going to buy?
Your attempt to simplify how you feel is appreciated. However, the post you are responding to is not a discussion of which faction has better science vessels, it's rather a discussion of whether Cryptic can be reasonably expected to have accurate metrics for the demand amongst KDF buyers for the science vessel that Cryptic is planning to release to them after more popular ship classes.
Now, whether what the KDF eventually gets is the Hyundai I expect, whether the KDF should even expect a Mercedez or be happy with a Hyundai because of the acknowledged need for faction identity in ship choices, and whether the KDF having the option of leaving that lot and instead heading over to Honest Lobi's Lockbox Emporium and purchasing the Ferrari that's available to all factions effects the dialogue at all are all interesting questions deserving of their own discussion.
Oh, and to answer your question, my main is a KDF Aligned Alien from the Romulan Faction, he's saving up for a lockbox ship. But if I were in the market for a science vessel to use as a transition ship towards my final goal, it'd be the KIA.
*nods* That's my point. For those of us already dealing with the problems the KDF and Romulans have. We have to make those hard choices. I spend most of my time on my Klingon Tac officer. I may occassionally bounce over to my Orion Sci, or one of my Fed chars. Which puts me to buying the Hyuandai.
But for most, and economically speaking, when presented with that kind of choice. They're going to opt for the better buy, which in this case is the Mercedez. That's the route that they're going to go. More bang for your buck as it were.
Like for my Klingon Tac. I'd love to have that Mercedez. But my selection is limited. I was thinking the Matha, since I play the cannon/torp build, it fits right in there. Though with them working on a new T6 BoP I have wait and see how the two compare.
My Orion Sci officer on the hand. I've been over ships so many times. Trying to find that one that would work. My only viable option that works is the Fleet Corsair. I would opt for the T6 Science Command battlecruiser, but its an Engineer ship and not a Science ship. Putting me in that difficult spot of which ship to use.
The Romulans as you have pointed out are in the same boat as the KDF.
The Federation however, always gets the mercedez.
And as I pointed out in my previous post. The only way to fix is, is to stop playing as a Federation Officer and start playing Romulan or KDF more. Not a choice most will make. Because look at what you're giving up compared to what you're gaining.
This is without the lockbox ships. Because those are a breed of their own.
Honestly if you really want better KDF science ships... Well someone made the thread, but please do go and discuss them.
My character Tsin'xing
That was me on the KDF Science Ship thread. Which actually went well. With the help of those that participate with feed back and even flaming, we put together a good basic T6 that is now down in the Kligon Fleetyard. Though, I have to say it's gotten more attention here than down there.
If Kia is selling Scimitar grade OP cars how do I buy one?
With ease. Probabaly right after they nerf bat it to death.
Option 1. Kickstarter-like system that has Cryptic list what ships for Feds, KDF, and Romulans they have in mind (which will be sold individually or in cross-faction bundles) and players vote with their wallets (in Zen; at 500 Zen off the final store price for single ships or the straight bundle cost). Meet the goal, your Zen is taken, and you get the ship (or ship bundles). Fail to meet it, you get your Zen back, and nothing happens. The design plan is tossed or shelved for a future attempt with amendments, depending on if any Devs liked the idea enough to reconsider in the future. A new set of paper ship stats is released for a new funding campaign and the process repeats. The minimum goal is the cost required to break even.
- The catch: The ships would be at near-final state stat-wise (as in the paper plan is already final; they just have to see if it's worth coding; suggestions will not be taken), but may have either a new visual body or reuse of an existing body.
- Stretch Goal: Meet the stretch goal and get the ship fully mastered and the Mastery trait added to your Starship Trait list. Only applies to those who committed.
Option 2. Create a Fed equivalent, then create cross-faction ships based on it (Command Cruisers, DSDs, Odyssey/Bortasqu).
Option 3. Take an existing ship, and create other faction equivalents if they don't exist (KDF BoP and the Aquarius, needs a Rom "BoP").
Option 4. Take an existing ship of the Fed side and its near faction equivalents, and create a new successor series based on them (Galaxy/Negh/DD Cross faction bundle).
Waste of time. Cryptic already has the metrics to know which ships will sell and to how many people well enough to direct their effort reasonably well. The only thing this set up will do is disabuse people of the notion that knowing three people who want the same ship is the same as there being a market.