I get tired of those Batman fanatics out there tossing my Superman hero down like you all know no shame or the true FACTS to a battle between SupermanVersesBatman. Now, for all of you out there that claim that Batman can beat/kill/win against Superman, here are some facts you have by passed which seriously makes you look like the fools you are:
Batman is very smart, but he is not the smartest man on the planet, that is Lex Luthor. And Lex has tried many times and failed to beat Superman. Contrary to the belief that Superman is not dumb, Superman is extremely smart. His Father was the top scientist on Krypton, a race far more advanced than humans. Superman outsmarts Lex Luthor all the time, who is smarter than Batman, he outsmarts Brainiac who is one of the smartest beings in the universe. He processes information faster than any human could. Forget strength, take Superman's speed. He can strategically fight and move at over 3x Light Speed. That puts him beyond the speed of human sight, thought, and reaction... WAY beyond. So if you assume Batman could even react to Superman if he was moving near top speeds, even just 1/3 of his top speed (that's the speed of light) he could punch his hand through Batman's chest before Bruce could even think or react or see. Going on to Bruce's gadgets. Superman has scanned ALL of Batman's devices before and mentally noted that he could DRASTICALLY improve the efficiency of them all, but he doesn't want to hurt Bruce's pride. You see for every gadget Batman has, Superman has 3 more advanced alien technology devices in his fortress of solitude.
Here's a little history, when Superman defeated an army of Green Lanterns he explained their thought based weapon does little good to someone who can move thousands of times faster than the speed of human thought. Batman is all done here. Even further, Batman has never beaten Superman in the actually DC Canon, only time they really fought was with Maxwell Lord and Superman beat Batman within an inch of his life, winning the only real fight they've ever had. Also any other stories where Batman seems to have "won" like Hush or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, re-read those carefully. DC makes it very clear that at ANY point in those fights, Superman could still kill Batman if he wanted to. Given what we know of Superman's abilities, its not hard to imagine. His infinite mass punch has force equal to a Super Nova. His Heat Vision can burn hotter than the sun and can pierce the Earth in half. His sneeze destroyed a Star system before, his speed is beyond light, his durability allowed him to survive a Super Nova.
Batman's cool and all, but in the end, hes just a man. Also like to add this fact, when Superman lost his powers he was still a crime fighter and trained under Batman, defeated Bruce in a sparring match with NO powers. Just a fun fact to add, that even without powers he has beaten Batman before. Also in Hush, when Batman had the Kryptonite ring, he stated in his thoughts, "Even now, with the Kryptonite ring, Clark could still kill me at any moment if he wanted too. His weakness isn't Kryptonite, it's that he's a good person." Cool line, but he spells it out plain as day." Superman could've beaten Batman if he wanted too, period. So if you throw these 2 into a fight, both blood lusted with equal time to prepare, Superman wins every time. So cut the TRIBBLE, Batman is the same as you and me, compared to something like a "Superman", we don't stand a chance. He isn't called "SUPER"man for the hell of it.
I get tired of those Batman fanatics out there tossing my Superman hero down like you all know no shame or the true FACTS to a battle between SupermanVersesBatman. Now, for all of you out there that claim that Batman can beat/kill/win against Superman, here are some facts you have by passed which seriously makes you look like the fools you are:
It is the same deal as the Star Trek ships/people vs Star Wars ships/people; since it is all FICTION, anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for any outcome they want. Fanboy A can come up with his own explanation for why Batman would win, while Fanboy B can come up with his own explanation for why Superman would win. And since it is all fiction, no one is right or wrong, so arguing one way or the other is pointless.
It is the same deal as the Star Trek ships/people vs Star Wars ships/people; since it is all FICTION, anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for any outcome they want. Fanboy A can come up with his own explanation for why Batman would win, while Fanboy B can come up with his own explanation for why Superman would win. And since it is all fiction, no one is right or wrong, so arguing one way or the other is pointless.
Batman is what you and I are.
That there proves you are nothing compared to something which is Superman.
Batman is what you and I are.
That there proves you are nothing compared to something which is Superman.
No, Batman exists in a comic book world where technology exists that does not exist in our real world. Therefore anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for how Batman could do things that could "beat" Superman, while you can come up with your own explanations for how they wouldn't work. And my point is, you are neither "right" nor "wrong" because it is all fiction and open to a million possible explanations.
No, Batman exists in a comic book world where technology exists that does not exist in our real world. Therefore anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for how Batman could do things that could "beat" Superman, while you can come up with your own explanations for how they wouldn't work. And my point is, you are neither "right" nor "wrong" because it is all fiction and open to a million possible explanations.
I already gave you the facts, regardless your statements.
Facts = Right.
I already gave you the facts, regardless your statements.
Facts = Right.
There are no "facts", because this is all make-believe. You can write an entire novel explaining why you think one make-believe thing could beat another make-believe thing, but at the end of the day your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. A "fact" is something you can prove with science, and since Batman and Superman do not exist, there is no way you can scientifically prove anything about them.
There are no "facts", because this is all make-believe. You can write an entire novel explaining why you think one make-believe thing could beat another make-believe thing, but at the end of the day your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. A "fact" is something you can prove with science, and since Batman and Superman do not exist, there is no way you can scientifically prove anything about them.
It doesn't matter who comes up with what in their imagination, Superman's powers are the same in every sense. Changing Superman's abilities to make another character better is not exactly fighting "Superman".
I can't quite tell if you actually read comics or not. If so, how long have you read them? Did you forget about that whole time when Superman lost his normal powers and had "electric" powers? That example proves that superman's powers are not constant or "the same in every sense" like you claim above. His powers have changed numerous times througout his comic history.
Batman isn't a normal human anyway. DC once published Batman's bench press record as something like 1,000 pounds or so, and this is regarded as "peak" human ability without things like Venom drugs.
The real world record is around 800 pounds. So Batman is already stronger than the strongest human ever in the real world, by a notable margin (and it's worth noting that, pre-Nu52 at least, Bane was actually stronger than this despite having kicked his Venom habit, ergo he was just a normal human himself). Somehow when training to be able to do this - something that in the real world you literally dedicate your life to - he also mastered all forms of martial arts (you read that right, that's a canon fact - all martial arts forms) and found time to get multiple doctorates and become one of the best detectives on the planet (though admittedly not the best, at least). There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do all this, but somehow, Batman did.
This is leaving aside that the default assumption for Batman is that he's been doing his Batman thing for about 10 years and is in his late 30s, early 40s. A guy who's taken as much punishment as Batman's been shown to take - stab wounds, bullet wounds, broken ribs, pulled muscles, all the damn time, and this is leaving aside the exotic stuff like scarecrow gas and acid - over the course of 10 years, would be a physical wreck in the real world at his age, or at the very least no longer at nearly the top of his game the way he's depicted in comics.
By real-world standards, Batman isn't a normal human. He might be by DC-world standards, but if so it must be emphasized that those standards are higher than Earth's own.
By real-world standards, Batman isn't a normal human. He might be by DC-world standards, but if so it must be emphasized that those standards are higher than Earth's own.
No, even that is not true. Perry White would be a "normal human" in the DC-world. I was going to say Jimmy Olsen, but then I remembered that he has even had super powers from time to time in some crazy stories. So no Batman is not a "normal human" even in the DC-world, he is better. But that is irrelevant, for the reasons I have mentioned previously.
One other thing I'll throw out just for fun: In a hand to hand fight, minus all technology and tactics, it is pretty undeniable Superman would crush Batman, quite literally. But that doesn't mean Superman is a good fighter, it just means he has superpowers. If you gave Batman the same powers as Superman, he would destroy him in a fight because Batman actually has fighting skills. One person has powers that they did nothing to "earn" and were basically just born with(yeah yeah, once he got to Earth), while the other has devoted his life to training. So is Superman stronger than Batman? Of course. But is Batman a better fighter? By far.
Actually.... Superman knows several martial arts himself. He rarely needs to use them, and is kinda rusty due to lack of practice, but he could use them at any time.
Actually.... Superman knows several martial arts himself. He rarely needs to use them, and is kinda rusty due to lack of practice, but he could use them at any time.
Yeah, I also took the classes when I was a kid. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't get my TRIBBLE handed to me by someone who does it on a daily basis. Apples and oranges.
Yeah, I also took the classes when I was a kid. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't get my TRIBBLE handed to me by someone who does it on a daily basis. Apples and oranges.
Yes, but you aren't strong enough to break mountains with your bare hands. :P
And knowing basic defenses is better than not knowing anything.
Yes, but you aren't strong enough to break mountains with your bare hands. :P
And knowing basic defenses is better than not knowing anything.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. We all know Superman is stronger than Batman. And I'm sure Superman has a certain level of fighting skill. But if, again IF, they both had the same powers, Batman's fighting skills are on a completely different level than Superman's. It would be like throwing me as a kid in martial arts class in the ring with the world's best MMA fighter. There is no comparison.
So Superman had "basic" defensive knowledge, he would last .05 seconds against Batman instead of .04 seconds.
Put them on equal terms and Batman would annihilate Superman with ease.
It's important to note that this point we are making does not diminish Superman as a hero. His fighting skills are not on the same level as Batman simply because they do not need to be; not because he is lazy or anything. Batman has to have those skills to survive. But both heroes have dedicated their lives to saving people and even sacrificed their lives for others. They are both the best of the best, in very different ways.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. We all know Superman is stronger than Batman. And I'm sure Superman has a certain level of fighting skill. But if, again IF, they both had the same powers, Batman's fighting skills are on a completely different level than Superman's. It would be like throwing me as a kid in martial arts class in the ring with the world's best MMA fighter. There is no comparison.
Well duh... that's the closest thing to a super power that Batman has.
Anyways, if you want to see Superman use martial arts, look up fights between him and either Mongul or Darkseid. Those are opponents where he actually has a reason to use them.
I never said Superman wasn't a hero or doesn't know what he's doing. Clearly he does. With that said, comparing them on equal terms of hand-to-hand fighting capability alone, clearly Batman is the superior.
Oh I know you didn't; I just said that so the hard core Superman fans reading this thread wouldn't think you or I were saying Batman was a "better" hero or anything :P
Well duh... that's the closest thing to a super power that Batman has.
Anyways, if you want to see Superman use martial arts, look up fights between him and either Mongul or Darkseid. Those are opponents where he actually has a reason to use them.
I wonder why he didn't break out those skills when he was fighting Doomsday
One other thing I'll throw out just for fun: In a hand to hand fight, minus all technology and tactics, it is pretty undeniable Superman would crush Batman, quite literally. But that doesn't mean Superman is a good fighter, it just means he has superpowers. If you gave Batman the same powers as Superman, he would destroy him in a fight because Batman actually has fighting skills. One person has powers that they did nothing to "earn" and were basically just born with(yeah yeah, once he got to Earth), while the other has devoted his life to training. So is Superman stronger than Batman? Of course. But is Batman a better fighter? By far.
Superman knows several martial arts, including Kryptonian ones. It's also worth remembering that without yellow sunlight Superman is a normal Kryptonian, not a normal human. Kryptonians are much tougher and stronger than humans already, coming as they do from a larger world with stronger gravity than Earth and a much more lethal ecosystem and climate. Plus Superman is a genius in his own right even without his powers.
Similarly Batman getting a boost off of some kind of sunlight (I believe old DC lore has blue sunlight effect humans the same way yellow sunlight effects Kryptonians, but I could be wrong) would get a slew of nifty powers, but Superman would still have several advantages. Maybe not enough to win, but my point is that Batman would by no means be able to take him out with the same ease he takes out Mook #12.
Superman knows several martial arts, including Kryptonian ones. It's also worth remembering that without yellow sunlight Superman is a normal Kryptonian, not a normal human. Kryptonians are much tougher and stronger than humans already, coming as they do from a larger world with stronger gravity than Earth.
Since you were quoting my post, 2 points:
1) I'm not claiming Superman doesn't have *any* fighting skills, I'm simply saying Batman has more(by necessity).
2) I said if Batman and Superman had the same powers, so the difference between human and kryptonian doesn't really matter in that hypothetical.
2) I said if Batman and Superman had the same powers, so the difference between human and kryptonian doesn't really matter in that hypothetical.
What is your definition of "powers" here, though? Put a human and a Kryptonian under red sunlight and both of them are at their "normal" states, but the average Kryptonian is still notably stronger and tougher. So why does a human who gets Superman's powers get those plus a boost to his strength and toughness to equal out normal Kryptonian physiology?
What is your definition of "powers" here, though? Put a human and a Kryptonian under red sunlight and both of them are at their "normal" states, but the average Kryptonian is still notably stronger and tougher. So why does a human who gets Superman's powers get those plus a boost to his strength and toughness to equal out normal Kryptonian physiology?
Nothing so complicated. My hypothetical statement simply meant if both of them had the same level of strength, durability, and other "special" abilities that Superman has. How you want to "make that happen" doesn't really matter to the hypothetical.
Nothing so complicated. My hypothetical statement simply meant if both of them had the same level of strength, durability, and other "special" abilities that Superman has. How you want to "make that happen" doesn't really matter to the hypothetical.
I guess, but frankly as long as you're piling advantages onto Batman like that I feel you might as well do likewise with Superman.
Looking forward to this, more so because I want it to be good, than I expect it will be. I just want to see my Justice League!
For me, this trailer looked damn good. Completely believable that some people (esp. one named Luthor) would be suspicious (and envious) of an alien with such powers. That Batman is among them is legit, and I expect the movie will be about how they become allies instead of enemies.
As for Batman actually having a chance, as someone posted previously, even with all his gadgets, know-how, and skills, his survival is mostly dependent on Superman's good nature. Whether or not Batman figures out or otherwise leverages Kryptonite we'll have to wait and see.
Comments
Batman is very smart, but he is not the smartest man on the planet, that is Lex Luthor. And Lex has tried many times and failed to beat Superman. Contrary to the belief that Superman is not dumb, Superman is extremely smart. His Father was the top scientist on Krypton, a race far more advanced than humans. Superman outsmarts Lex Luthor all the time, who is smarter than Batman, he outsmarts Brainiac who is one of the smartest beings in the universe. He processes information faster than any human could. Forget strength, take Superman's speed. He can strategically fight and move at over 3x Light Speed. That puts him beyond the speed of human sight, thought, and reaction... WAY beyond. So if you assume Batman could even react to Superman if he was moving near top speeds, even just 1/3 of his top speed (that's the speed of light) he could punch his hand through Batman's chest before Bruce could even think or react or see. Going on to Bruce's gadgets. Superman has scanned ALL of Batman's devices before and mentally noted that he could DRASTICALLY improve the efficiency of them all, but he doesn't want to hurt Bruce's pride. You see for every gadget Batman has, Superman has 3 more advanced alien technology devices in his fortress of solitude.
Here's a little history, when Superman defeated an army of Green Lanterns he explained their thought based weapon does little good to someone who can move thousands of times faster than the speed of human thought. Batman is all done here. Even further, Batman has never beaten Superman in the actually DC Canon, only time they really fought was with Maxwell Lord and Superman beat Batman within an inch of his life, winning the only real fight they've ever had. Also any other stories where Batman seems to have "won" like Hush or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, re-read those carefully. DC makes it very clear that at ANY point in those fights, Superman could still kill Batman if he wanted to. Given what we know of Superman's abilities, its not hard to imagine. His infinite mass punch has force equal to a Super Nova. His Heat Vision can burn hotter than the sun and can pierce the Earth in half. His sneeze destroyed a Star system before, his speed is beyond light, his durability allowed him to survive a Super Nova.
Batman's cool and all, but in the end, hes just a man. Also like to add this fact, when Superman lost his powers he was still a crime fighter and trained under Batman, defeated Bruce in a sparring match with NO powers. Just a fun fact to add, that even without powers he has beaten Batman before. Also in Hush, when Batman had the Kryptonite ring, he stated in his thoughts, "Even now, with the Kryptonite ring, Clark could still kill me at any moment if he wanted too. His weakness isn't Kryptonite, it's that he's a good person." Cool line, but he spells it out plain as day." Superman could've beaten Batman if he wanted too, period. So if you throw these 2 into a fight, both blood lusted with equal time to prepare, Superman wins every time. So cut the TRIBBLE, Batman is the same as you and me, compared to something like a "Superman", we don't stand a chance. He isn't called "SUPER"man for the hell of it.
That's all I'm going to say on that matter.
http://musitrex.ucoz.com/Superman.jpg
It is the same deal as the Star Trek ships/people vs Star Wars ships/people; since it is all FICTION, anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for any outcome they want. Fanboy A can come up with his own explanation for why Batman would win, while Fanboy B can come up with his own explanation for why Superman would win. And since it is all fiction, no one is right or wrong, so arguing one way or the other is pointless.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Batman is what you and I are.
That there proves you are nothing compared to something which is Superman.
No, Batman exists in a comic book world where technology exists that does not exist in our real world. Therefore anyone can come up with a fictional explanation for how Batman could do things that could "beat" Superman, while you can come up with your own explanations for how they wouldn't work. And my point is, you are neither "right" nor "wrong" because it is all fiction and open to a million possible explanations.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I already gave you the facts, regardless your statements.
Facts = Right.
There are no "facts", because this is all make-believe. You can write an entire novel explaining why you think one make-believe thing could beat another make-believe thing, but at the end of the day your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. A "fact" is something you can prove with science, and since Batman and Superman do not exist, there is no way you can scientifically prove anything about them.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It doesn't matter who comes up with what in their imagination, Superman's powers are the same in every sense. Changing Superman's abilities to make another character better is not exactly fighting "Superman".
I can't quite tell if you actually read comics or not. If so, how long have you read them? Did you forget about that whole time when Superman lost his normal powers and had "electric" powers? That example proves that superman's powers are not constant or "the same in every sense" like you claim above. His powers have changed numerous times througout his comic history.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The real world record is around 800 pounds. So Batman is already stronger than the strongest human ever in the real world, by a notable margin (and it's worth noting that, pre-Nu52 at least, Bane was actually stronger than this despite having kicked his Venom habit, ergo he was just a normal human himself). Somehow when training to be able to do this - something that in the real world you literally dedicate your life to - he also mastered all forms of martial arts (you read that right, that's a canon fact - all martial arts forms) and found time to get multiple doctorates and become one of the best detectives on the planet (though admittedly not the best, at least). There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do all this, but somehow, Batman did.
This is leaving aside that the default assumption for Batman is that he's been doing his Batman thing for about 10 years and is in his late 30s, early 40s. A guy who's taken as much punishment as Batman's been shown to take - stab wounds, bullet wounds, broken ribs, pulled muscles, all the damn time, and this is leaving aside the exotic stuff like scarecrow gas and acid - over the course of 10 years, would be a physical wreck in the real world at his age, or at the very least no longer at nearly the top of his game the way he's depicted in comics.
By real-world standards, Batman isn't a normal human. He might be by DC-world standards, but if so it must be emphasized that those standards are higher than Earth's own.
No, even that is not true. Perry White would be a "normal human" in the DC-world. I was going to say Jimmy Olsen, but then I remembered that he has even had super powers from time to time in some crazy stories. So no Batman is not a "normal human" even in the DC-world, he is better. But that is irrelevant, for the reasons I have mentioned previously.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah, I also took the classes when I was a kid. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't get my TRIBBLE handed to me by someone who does it on a daily basis. Apples and oranges.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And knowing basic defenses is better than not knowing anything.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. We all know Superman is stronger than Batman. And I'm sure Superman has a certain level of fighting skill. But if, again IF, they both had the same powers, Batman's fighting skills are on a completely different level than Superman's. It would be like throwing me as a kid in martial arts class in the ring with the world's best MMA fighter. There is no comparison.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's important to note that this point we are making does not diminish Superman as a hero. His fighting skills are not on the same level as Batman simply because they do not need to be; not because he is lazy or anything. Batman has to have those skills to survive. But both heroes have dedicated their lives to saving people and even sacrificed their lives for others. They are both the best of the best, in very different ways.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Anyways, if you want to see Superman use martial arts, look up fights between him and either Mongul or Darkseid. Those are opponents where he actually has a reason to use them.
My character Tsin'xing
Oh I know you didn't; I just said that so the hard core Superman fans reading this thread wouldn't think you or I were saying Batman was a "better" hero or anything :P
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I wonder why he didn't break out those skills when he was fighting Doomsday
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
"If General Chang were to fight Dahar Master Kor, both in their prime fighting condition, who do you think would win?"
That would actually be a much more logical comparison =P
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Superman knows several martial arts, including Kryptonian ones. It's also worth remembering that without yellow sunlight Superman is a normal Kryptonian, not a normal human. Kryptonians are much tougher and stronger than humans already, coming as they do from a larger world with stronger gravity than Earth and a much more lethal ecosystem and climate. Plus Superman is a genius in his own right even without his powers.
Similarly Batman getting a boost off of some kind of sunlight (I believe old DC lore has blue sunlight effect humans the same way yellow sunlight effects Kryptonians, but I could be wrong) would get a slew of nifty powers, but Superman would still have several advantages. Maybe not enough to win, but my point is that Batman would by no means be able to take him out with the same ease he takes out Mook #12.
Since you were quoting my post, 2 points:
1) I'm not claiming Superman doesn't have *any* fighting skills, I'm simply saying Batman has more(by necessity).
2) I said if Batman and Superman had the same powers, so the difference between human and kryptonian doesn't really matter in that hypothetical.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
What is your definition of "powers" here, though? Put a human and a Kryptonian under red sunlight and both of them are at their "normal" states, but the average Kryptonian is still notably stronger and tougher. So why does a human who gets Superman's powers get those plus a boost to his strength and toughness to equal out normal Kryptonian physiology?
Nothing so complicated. My hypothetical statement simply meant if both of them had the same level of strength, durability, and other "special" abilities that Superman has. How you want to "make that happen" doesn't really matter to the hypothetical.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I guess, but frankly as long as you're piling advantages onto Batman like that I feel you might as well do likewise with Superman.
For me, this trailer looked damn good. Completely believable that some people (esp. one named Luthor) would be suspicious (and envious) of an alien with such powers. That Batman is among them is legit, and I expect the movie will be about how they become allies instead of enemies.
As for Batman actually having a chance, as someone posted previously, even with all his gadgets, know-how, and skills, his survival is mostly dependent on Superman's good nature. Whether or not Batman figures out or otherwise leverages Kryptonite we'll have to wait and see.
And hey, everyone knows that in a real crisis, the man to back is the Flash.
On a more serious note, I watched and survived 1977's BatMite and 1997's Batman & Robin. I'll watch and survive this one, too.