ever thought about that rom and kdf ships sell bad, just because of the fact, they are always simultaneously released with fedships?
for me its now: galaxy, warbird or neghvar. of course i end up buying the galaxy priority wise.
sell kdf and rom ships ondifferent intervals than fedships. releasing three things same time will always lead to priority purchases. and that will always be the fedship in 99% of the time. i donno why but it is. cause its a fact that most kdf and romchars are kind of "secondary" chars. like when you have 9 ally and 1 horde char on a server ... (with the difference, that kdf and fed and even more rom are not "same amount" at all)
to me, the neghvar, the bop, ktinga and the vorcha are all 4 iconic.
ktinga was the tos ship, and its followers were kind of alwqays cool because they appeared antique in the modern surroundings. kind of felt like an old chevrolet.
the brel was the most iconic ship so far i think. the reason why they dont get released to often are two: its hard to design it, and 2) its setup as universal is quite "revealing" and demanding for combinations on fed side. whenever a bop was out, it was "necessary" to release counter-part layouts for fed. a brel would only feel good as universally-universal station ship, thats to early for now, they dont even have all kind of seatings out yet!
the vorcha was the least iconic ship for me, it only aapeared once, it was gowrons flagship but, who liked gowron anyway? ^^
the neghvar became kind of iconic during ds9 latest seasons.
sdo id say: brel> ktinga>neghvar>vorcha. while all 4 are iconic somewhat.
for the rom i can only say dderidex.
and for the fed clearly galaxy, voyager,defiant andsovereign are the iconic ships.
wouldnt count excelsior or ambassador, they only filled minor storyholes when a crusier was needed somewhere ,-)
so basically i can only see:
kdf is somehow "held far" from their bop t6 - because of the reasons i mentioned, that are difficulties in designing one and their "bo universal layout"-backlash on the other 2 factions.
and i bet vorcha and d7/ktinga will defenetely arrive. but since this is demand and deliver, the demand for kdf ships is "relatively" small compared to fed ships. its the way it is. this is startrek online, and in startrek the federation had the major role, while the other races played counterpart roles - some more minors, and some fewer bigger ones (kdf, rom,cardies, borg,dominion).
but basing on the show, the broadness of material for the "enemy" factions is smaller.
but ill bet, if the pressure of "low ship amount" gets high enough on the kdf side due to time, they WILL release a brel T6. i dont think it wont happen. the time is just not right. not all sub-speccs are out, and finding a proper design may be difficult.
(unlike the older brel it cannot be an "outdated workhorse" kind of ship, cause specialisation seats as command and intel NEED newest tech (communication arrays and sensors) so its basically a no-go for the classic bop workhorse. just saying. - i dont think cryptic ever thinks so hard, its just lazyness and calculation ,but there are reasons ^^
Seriously?!? I upgraded my current version of these ships to T5U and NOW we're getting the T6 version? So basically I wasted my money buying ship upgrades? I sincerely hope that there's some way to upgrade our T5U into a T6 because this is some serious BS.
Que devs laughing; "... and we have a few more cosmetic modifications on file so that if they are dumb enough to buy this then we can get even more money on the T7 version..."
:cool: Already spending my money on Star Citizen, so at this point I just have to say that suckers get what suckers pay for, and over there I like what I'm getting.
If the devs don't spend the rest of this year figuring out a new financing model they can expect quite a few defections come 2016. This game could have been an ongoing cash cow if PWE wasn't so intent on looting our wallets rather than building a customer base. Their model seems to work like this:
- put as much of a barrier between players and fun as you think you can get away with and then charge hugh amounts to skip over it.
- continually increase barrier to make more money. Nerf all fun things that metrics say decrease income.
- When people finally get wise and leave because the game is no fun, go start a new project and find new suckers.
:P There will still be trekkers who will spend for anything with the Trek name, but when the rest of us leave they'll have no one to play with and go back to spending too much for other fan junk.
:cool: Already spending my money on Star Citizen, so at this point I just have to say that suckers get what suckers pay for, and over there I like what I'm getting.
Nothing but a dogfighting module for a year, or possibly two, and something that others getting will be getting in-game for regular currency anyway?
(I backed Star Citizen, I'm looking forward to it (More looking forward to Squadron 42 mind), but the 'THROW MONEY AT ME!' attitude of Chris Roberts I find pretty disgusting).
Any Iconic T6 Escort (none intel) coming out as well (like defiant) and before anyone would say anythig about the T6 Phatom....It's not the Defiant and of conversation.
You're assuming a demand-driven economy here-and it isn't. Cryptic, to maintain their business model, has to 'push' demand.
that is, they have to create demand for their primary sales product.
First off, a very interesting post overall .
One more thing that I'd point to would be the "coincidence" of releasing these Hero ships just as a major player recruiting gets underway .
One could say it's fascinating ... how they played their cards , considering that the Galaxy is one of those "silver bullets" that you'd save for a rainy day .
On the KDF side however , I disagree on your assessment on the Vor'Cha and Negh'Var .
In terms of sales, I see little difference between the two .
In terms of demand, the Negh'Var (along with the Nausicaan transforming raider) have been promised but not delivered for a loong time .
And in terms of "on screen" combat ... , well while the Negh'Var was not shown as a winner, the Vor'Cha was handed it's rear a few times, be that when Sisko rescued the Detapa Council (and Dukat) during the Klingon invasion of Cardassia, or when during the Succession struggles, the Duras attacked Gowron's ship, which needed to be rescued by Worf's brother in a Bop .
The Negh'var and variants were seen exactly...two times? in the series-both times on DS9, both times for less than five minutes screen time...total screen time.
It's not an "iconic" or "Hero" ship for the KDF.
It's iconic in a sense that both the Vor'Cha and the Negh'Var have been introduced as ... , well as the current Flag Ships of various rulers .
Sompek was shown in one, then Gowron was shown in both .
That too has meaning, in the same vain as the Excelsior being used to carry the Admiralty around in TNG .
... it will be interesting to see how & which promotion will be boosted by the Escort 3 ship bundle that they no doubt have in the making / planning stage ...
I think we're going to see the T6 Fed and KDF cruisers here mirror the D'deridex boff layout. Players will whine if the T6 Galaxy and Negh'var follow the pathfinder boff layout model and the T6 D'dex keeps the superior layout, and players will also whine if the T6 D'dex layout gets nerfed to follow the layout of the other two.
... it will be interesting to see how & which promotion will be boosted by the Escort 3 ship bundle that they no doubt have in the making / planning stage ...
Pilot specialization around season 10...
T6 Defiant for feds.
T6 BoP for KDF.
T6 Valdore? Or an actual Romulan BoP of sorts fitting the pilot theme for Rommies?
You're assuming a demand-driven economy here-and it isn't. Cryptic, to maintain their business model, has to 'push' demand.
that is, they have to create demand for their primary sales product.
It's the main reason they ddn't just make "Tier Six Upgrades" and Geko actually explains this to Trek Radio.
Legacy of Romulus-all romulan toons, per Cryptic's numbers, are about 11% of the total of all characters/captains in the game. That's both KDF and Federation aligned.
Legacy of Romulus was a very profitable year for Cryptic/PWE.
Delta...high sales figures, but..you don't lay off eighteen people from a sixty man shop if you're doing well. it doesn't happen, esp. if you're increasing the workload at the same time.
You do it when your balance is in the red.
Delta likely did some fairly savage things to the bottom line-sales figures or not, at best, it wasn't sufficient to cover costs incurred at other projects Cryptic was handling at the same time-which is why the behavioural shift back to 'balanced' releases for all three factions, and why we're seeing the "Delta Recruitment" event-they need to hook more players and bring bodies back in with hopes of getting money spent.
So...they're trying. They're relying on the demand from the forums for a higher-tier 'classic' Star Trek ship (hence the reissue of the Galaxy, D'deridex, and three-years-late Negh.)
But...
There is a bias here. If you surveyed existing staff, the ones that admit to having KDF aligned characters are running Romulans. Borticus being a prime example. When the Romulans were configured, they got the best assets from the KDF and Federation, plus good assets of their own, and a cosmetic 'handicap' in the form of ten points per system less power. (counterbalanced by Singularity abilities-four abilities that you'd have to mount consoles to replicate on the other factions.)
Nobody Cryptic-side plays KDF KDF, and the majority of staff are Starfleet Fans, if they're fans at all.
So...for 'icons' they start the same way they did designing the Romulans-with Federation priorities, specifically with Cruiser-obsessed federation priorities.
After all, who didn't like TNG?
From there, the decision tree immediately hits the truly iconic Romulan ship-the D'Deridex, which had far more presence in the IP from TNG onward...and is supposed to be a close equivalent to the Galaxy Class. Two ships, and they can work off the base stats.
BUT...
if you go with the IP as your guide, then there's a problem.
The most commonly seen KDF ship, is the K'Tinga/D-7 model. It ranges from Kirk's era, through Janeway. but, doing one of those will require a different stat-block to start out with, with fundamentally different performance.
The Vor'cha is the most successful (in terms of winning on the small screen) KDF Cruiser-but it doesn't handle like a Galaxy, you can't re-use the same stat-block...
so it goes to the Negh'var. Because you CAN re-use the Galaxy's turn rates, bridge stations, weapons layout, power distribution,etc. on a ship that's supposed to be a big, kind of slow, juggernaut like the Negh'var...but the Negh's appearances in the series (TNG, DS9, and Voyager) show it to be ...
a loser. It loses every fight it's in.
But it shows up a few times, on several beloved episodes, so it's in.
The problem from the "Pushing demand" end, is that KDF isn't a Big, slow Cruiser faction.
(this is why you don't see videos of KDF ships doing the Discoball of Death BFAW DPS racing, and why the Wizards of STO don't use KDF ships.)
So, while sales will be GREAT for the D'Deridex (the 11% of Romulan supa-fans out there will buy-buy-buy, as will some of the powergamer Romulans who don't want to stay with their Scimitars) and they'll be fantastic for the Fed side (because roleplayers will buy Galaxies-any Galaxy, even the Failaxy sold well...)
I don't think more than a few Negh'var fans will buy the "iconic" tier Six Negh'var-certainly not to the proportion that buy the D'Deridex or Galaxy.
It's the wrong ship, and given that they've released the "Pilot" path, and need hulls to stick new "Pilot" bridge officers in, a "pilot" Negh won't sell as well as the other two stablemates from the other factions, either.
It's the wrong ship.
Unfotunately, Cryptic doesn't understand their market well enough to build the right ship where KDF is concerned.
and there's little to no interest in learning that market. At Sixteen percent of the playerbase, with most of our Tier 5's locked up in Fleet holdings, there are a LOT of Fleet KDF ships out there proportional to the population-so the money's there.
what isn't there, is the understanding of how to tap that money. What the buyers who identify as KDF want, it's not really given serious thought, and if it were, there's logistical issues as to why little to nothing is going ot be done to tap it.
Based on the small-screen (and big screen) the "Iconic" Kdf ship, is the Bird of Prey-because it wins. it's associated with victories more than defeats.
but...
A BoP. Federation "raiders" didn't sell well. Neither did the cross-faciton 'raiders'. Everyone who wanted one for free, did the events, but the lockbox versions rot on the exchange at depressed prices-even compared to the sole Mirror-Bird, which sells for more in spite of handicaps.
I respectfully disagree with you on several points. While I do concede that the bop is the go to PVP ship, the pve KDF crowd are the opposite-they tend to fly cruisers and destroyers. In fact, in almost every Klingon fleet alert I've flown in, I see neghvars. In space stf's, I see them fairly regularly, and in and around Q'nos I always see a few of them.
As to the point about the negh'var losing on the show, that's best explained as a ship having the unfortunate luck of going up against a hero captain whose station has near invincible plot shields. And even after the Klingons took DS9's shields down, the negh'var could have pulverized the entire station had it chosen to do so.
BOPs will get another upgrade sooner or later but today, we rejoice with negh'var and KDF fans for such an iconic ship being modernized is certainly worthy of a celebration.
Already spending my money on Star Citizen, so at this point I just have to say that suckers get what suckers pay for, and over there I like what I'm getting.
$250 starships and eventual cash for in-game gold?
While that does have a certain logic to it, I have to wonder how bad things are @ Cryptic if they release 2 ship bundles in the space of ~ a month .
... but I could see that happening if they wish to squeeze every penny in a short term from the new players Delta Recruit crowd ...
Well, I'm thinking season 10 after the delta recruitment event. Maybe a few weeks after, so just before the summer event and the T6 ship there.
So likely closer to two months from now.
Well, I'm thinking season 10 after the delta recruitment event. Maybe a few weeks after, so just before the summer event and the T6 ship there.
So likely closer to two months from now.
Depends when S.10 is released then .
I'm not sure why , but I thought that we'd see an April release for it , but this new Delta Recruitment thing ... , well they could release it either during this event or after it .
While that does have a certain logic to it, I have to wonder how bad things are @ Cryptic if they release 2 ship bundles in the space of ~ a month .
... but I could see that happening if they wish to squeeze every penny in a short term from the new players Delta Recruit crowd ...
I don't think that's a sign of bad times at Cryptic....when we see a T6 Connie...that will be a sign of the end times. A better Galaxy has been asked for since forever. Something the observant saw coming when we got a T6 intrepid.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
When can we expect the T6 Prometheus, Defiant, Sovereign, Nebula etc.?
I'm not sure if every ship will get the T6 treatment but a T6 Defiant seems to be likely....a T6 Sovereign will make me spend money.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'm sorry but this just seems like a rip off. If cryptic is going to do this then what was the point of the T5-U or FT5-U. This just seems like a blatant cash grab to me.
I'm sorry but this just seems like a rip off. If cryptic is going to do this then what was the point of the T5-U or FT5-U. This just seems like a blatant cash grab to me.
T5U and FTU was an olive branch to the players. They knew not everyone was going to want the new ships so they gave players the ability to use your current ship in DR.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
T5U and FTU was an olive branch to the players. They knew not everyone was going to want the new ships so they gave players the ability to use your current ship in DR.
Then what would you call this. Reselling us the ships we upgraded for DR to then go buy the T6 versions of the same ships for DR? Cash grab. I wont be rebuying these ships for DR.
I'm sorry but this just seems like a rip off. If cryptic is going to do this then what was the point of the T5-U or FT5-U. This just seems like a blatant cash grab to me.
It's a commercial product made by a company out to take all your pretty monnies - of course it's a blatant grab for your cash - that's the entire purpose for the company to make things for this game.
There are only really two things Cryptic needs to worry about economically speaking.
1. They have an effective monopoly on Star Trek - they just need to keep the Star Trek fans from going for another franchise - so figure out where the pain threshold of Trekkies is.
2. They need to figure out how to best make the shinies, so most people wants them - how to best separate Trekkies from their cash in large numbers.
These ships are great, I appreciate the effort. I also wish they would've been released sooner... I just can't justify spending anymore money on T-6 cruisers. I may open my wallet again if more actual escorts and science ships are released. A T-6 bird of prey would almost guarantee that I'd shell out some money.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2
Comments
for me its now: galaxy, warbird or neghvar. of course i end up buying the galaxy priority wise.
sell kdf and rom ships ondifferent intervals than fedships. releasing three things same time will always lead to priority purchases. and that will always be the fedship in 99% of the time. i donno why but it is. cause its a fact that most kdf and romchars are kind of "secondary" chars. like when you have 9 ally and 1 horde char on a server ... (with the difference, that kdf and fed and even more rom are not "same amount" at all)
to me, the neghvar, the bop, ktinga and the vorcha are all 4 iconic.
ktinga was the tos ship, and its followers were kind of alwqays cool because they appeared antique in the modern surroundings. kind of felt like an old chevrolet.
the brel was the most iconic ship so far i think. the reason why they dont get released to often are two: its hard to design it, and 2) its setup as universal is quite "revealing" and demanding for combinations on fed side. whenever a bop was out, it was "necessary" to release counter-part layouts for fed. a brel would only feel good as universally-universal station ship, thats to early for now, they dont even have all kind of seatings out yet!
the vorcha was the least iconic ship for me, it only aapeared once, it was gowrons flagship but, who liked gowron anyway? ^^
the neghvar became kind of iconic during ds9 latest seasons.
sdo id say: brel> ktinga>neghvar>vorcha. while all 4 are iconic somewhat.
for the rom i can only say dderidex.
and for the fed clearly galaxy, voyager,defiant andsovereign are the iconic ships.
wouldnt count excelsior or ambassador, they only filled minor storyholes when a crusier was needed somewhere ,-)
so basically i can only see:
kdf is somehow "held far" from their bop t6 - because of the reasons i mentioned, that are difficulties in designing one and their "bo universal layout"-backlash on the other 2 factions.
and i bet vorcha and d7/ktinga will defenetely arrive. but since this is demand and deliver, the demand for kdf ships is "relatively" small compared to fed ships. its the way it is. this is startrek online, and in startrek the federation had the major role, while the other races played counterpart roles - some more minors, and some fewer bigger ones (kdf, rom,cardies, borg,dominion).
but basing on the show, the broadness of material for the "enemy" factions is smaller.
but ill bet, if the pressure of "low ship amount" gets high enough on the kdf side due to time, they WILL release a brel T6. i dont think it wont happen. the time is just not right. not all sub-speccs are out, and finding a proper design may be difficult.
(unlike the older brel it cannot be an "outdated workhorse" kind of ship, cause specialisation seats as command and intel NEED newest tech (communication arrays and sensors) so its basically a no-go for the classic bop workhorse. just saying. - i dont think cryptic ever thinks so hard, its just lazyness and calculation ,but there are reasons ^^
Que devs laughing; "... and we have a few more cosmetic modifications on file so that if they are dumb enough to buy this then we can get even more money on the T7 version..."
:cool: Already spending my money on Star Citizen, so at this point I just have to say that suckers get what suckers pay for, and over there I like what I'm getting.
If the devs don't spend the rest of this year figuring out a new financing model they can expect quite a few defections come 2016. This game could have been an ongoing cash cow if PWE wasn't so intent on looting our wallets rather than building a customer base. Their model seems to work like this:
- put as much of a barrier between players and fun as you think you can get away with and then charge hugh amounts to skip over it.
- continually increase barrier to make more money. Nerf all fun things that metrics say decrease income.
- When people finally get wise and leave because the game is no fun, go start a new project and find new suckers.
:P There will still be trekkers who will spend for anything with the Trek name, but when the rest of us leave they'll have no one to play with and go back to spending too much for other fan junk.
Nerfing is Fraud...
Nothing but a dogfighting module for a year, or possibly two, and something that others getting will be getting in-game for regular currency anyway?
(I backed Star Citizen, I'm looking forward to it (More looking forward to Squadron 42 mind), but the 'THROW MONEY AT ME!' attitude of Chris Roberts I find pretty disgusting).
The only thing i will fly on my main... yes yes yes
Interested in Role Playing? Join the 12th Fleet Science division!
Now do a BoP!!! pretty pretty please!
Thank You
First off, a very interesting post overall .
One more thing that I'd point to would be the "coincidence" of releasing these Hero ships just as a major player recruiting gets underway .
One could say it's fascinating ... how they played their cards , considering that the Galaxy is one of those "silver bullets" that you'd save for a rainy day .
On the KDF side however , I disagree on your assessment on the Vor'Cha and Negh'Var .
In terms of sales, I see little difference between the two .
In terms of demand, the Negh'Var (along with the Nausicaan transforming raider) have been promised but not delivered for a loong time .
And in terms of "on screen" combat ... , well while the Negh'Var was not shown as a winner, the Vor'Cha was handed it's rear a few times, be that when Sisko rescued the Detapa Council (and Dukat) during the Klingon invasion of Cardassia, or when during the Succession struggles, the Duras attacked Gowron's ship, which needed to be rescued by Worf's brother in a Bop .
It's iconic in a sense that both the Vor'Cha and the Negh'Var have been introduced as ... , well as the current Flag Ships of various rulers .
Sompek was shown in one, then Gowron was shown in both .
That too has meaning, in the same vain as the Excelsior being used to carry the Admiralty around in TNG .
... it will be interesting to see how & which promotion will be boosted by the Escort 3 ship bundle that they no doubt have in the making / planning stage ...
*throws wallet at monitor*
It...it's not working yet!
I want to give you my money!
*pulls out credit card and throws that instead*
It's still not working! Let me have those!
T6 Defiant for feds.
T6 BoP for KDF.
T6 Valdore? Or an actual Romulan BoP of sorts fitting the pilot theme for Rommies?
I respectfully disagree with you on several points. While I do concede that the bop is the go to PVP ship, the pve KDF crowd are the opposite-they tend to fly cruisers and destroyers. In fact, in almost every Klingon fleet alert I've flown in, I see neghvars. In space stf's, I see them fairly regularly, and in and around Q'nos I always see a few of them.
As to the point about the negh'var losing on the show, that's best explained as a ship having the unfortunate luck of going up against a hero captain whose station has near invincible plot shields. And even after the Klingons took DS9's shields down, the negh'var could have pulverized the entire station had it chosen to do so.
BOPs will get another upgrade sooner or later but today, we rejoice with negh'var and KDF fans for such an iconic ship being modernized is certainly worthy of a celebration.
While that does have a certain logic to it, I have to wonder how bad things are @ Cryptic if they release 2 ship bundles in the space of ~ a month .
... but I could see that happening if they wish to squeeze every penny in a short term from the new players Delta Recruit crowd ...
$250 starships and eventual cash for in-game gold?
So likely closer to two months from now.
Same for the D'dex.
Looks like im gonna be buying a bundle then (:
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
Depends when S.10 is released then .
I'm not sure why , but I thought that we'd see an April release for it , but this new Delta Recruitment thing ... , well they could release it either during this event or after it .
... guess we'll have to see ...
I don't think that's a sign of bad times at Cryptic....when we see a T6 Connie...that will be a sign of the end times. A better Galaxy has been asked for since forever. Something the observant saw coming when we got a T6 intrepid.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'm not sure if every ship will get the T6 treatment but a T6 Defiant seems to be likely....a T6 Sovereign will make me spend money.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
T5U and FTU was an olive branch to the players. They knew not everyone was going to want the new ships so they gave players the ability to use your current ship in DR.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Then what would you call this. Reselling us the ships we upgraded for DR to then go buy the T6 versions of the same ships for DR? Cash grab. I wont be rebuying these ships for DR.
There are only really two things Cryptic needs to worry about economically speaking.
1. They have an effective monopoly on Star Trek - they just need to keep the Star Trek fans from going for another franchise - so figure out where the pain threshold of Trekkies is.
2. They need to figure out how to best make the shinies, so most people wants them - how to best separate Trekkies from their cash in large numbers.