Kk cool, now we are talking. How about some advice here?
- Interviews for UIA: I can get all of mine right let it be all 10 but have a hard time doing that in time before somebody else messes up the remaining ones failing the mission for me. Would frosted boots help out here?
- Hostage Rescue in DRSA: I manage to get up to 4/6 on elite within 3 minutes, perhaps with some motion accelerator 5/6 is possible on advanced but then I often seem out of options especially when the advanced pug manages to get to pre-aggrovate the cohorts without killing them and spreading em throughout the map.
- Crystalline Advanced: Well got some good firepower, debuffs for the entity as well as a laod of heals offering me 1st or 2nd place in pugs a lot better than the successful dealing with the fail by myself. The more I succeed in evading the blast the more I seem to encounters some hobby DPSer popping up on their attempts to score high on some charts. How do I carry them? More Debuffs? More heals? I mean its only 9 others I have to carry right?
- Disable power nodes in KAGA: Now I can demo all 6 successfully on first attempt bringing in the right toon OR I can lower the respective force fields in control room even with extending it for the advanced pug HOWERVER I have a hard time doing both at the same time. Some communication for coordination needed? Sure we have time for that... no we don't. There was this background timer, wasn't there?
- Hostage rescue in IGA: Rescuing hostages alone is possible and has been done by me. Especially on the second half where 2 have to be saved at a time within a timeframe of 15 seconds it gets interesting. HOWER so far I only manage to do that by not aggravating the other critters too intence BUT if I choose this strategy general DPS for critter removal suffers to a point where I cant fullfill the 15 minutes global time requirements for my teaml by myself. Perhaps some better ground gear will help me out?
From the way I see it you are mixing stuff up nor denying the gist that I said. I have been consistent with my main suggestions for advance stuff. Do in game mechanics- improve self, improve team, get out of PuGs.
Since some of your sample, involves trollable missions, my first question would be what would be your goal, faill proof, trollable proof or better chance to complete PuG advance mission?
Because from the way you asked, is more or less trollable proof, then i would say get out of PuGs. But you already know that, everyone who have been wanting this changes in advance queue know that, but chose not to do that.
If you want fail proof, I say improve yourself and your team to the point of perfection.
if a player wants to play PuGs, all I can give is advice to optimize chance to finish PuG. But is in no way fail proof, trollable proof. They have to prepare to fail, and for trolls if they want to play PuGs.
If you are after efficiency and farming, go find the DPS channels, climb up to higher channels, pair up with optimal players, dont be picky on the mission you want vs the missions that are most efficient to finish.
If all fail conditions in advanced would be designed in a way that the influence of a single individual could guarantee at least the positive outcome of an advanced mission we would look at a lot less problems here and that for me and for others meaning I would fill the queue list as well as others in the hope they meet me. I doubt universal advice can be given to CARRY your pugs through an advanced PvE. At least not if your horizon extends the ability to bring in cc for ISA or enough DPS to compensate for the mistakes of others.
As far as I am concerned cryptic is doing just that, you know. With the change they guarantee that the likeliness of a competed individual in a group out of 5 has a meaningful enough position to at least complete an advanced.
And thats the trick I bet, and what will trigger good players back to queues as well as bad ones knowing that the mission has a fair chance of succeeding either by doing the tough stuff for oneself or by relying on others for that for a while during the learning process on a difficulty setting of at least some meaning.
GOD, its not as if ANY of the above fail stuff would pose any form of challenge for a competed group. Fails are not even noteworthy then and peeps who happen to be in such a groups wont even notice if they are gone. Perhaps they should in the future if they want to uphold their marks income.
Why should the devs force players to change the queing habits? For you and the few who complain about advance? This has been going on for years.
Players left the PuGs by choice. Those who remaind in PUGs are there also by choice. Those who cannot finish advance and refuse to take ingame mechanics in the current mechanics also cannot finish advance by choice.
Confirmed on Advanced. The Devs are doing it for those lining up for it and don't want to see a time estemate of -:-.
Why that sheldoncooper's opinion matter to me when he is the same player like you in tjhis thread who refuse to use in game mechanics and pass everything to the devs to solve their advance problems?
To sum up what I have saying in this thread and previous advance nerf threads, use in game mechanics to solve your problems that were created by players from trolling to failing or finishing content. If you dont use it, dont pass these stuff to devs because it is the player's choice not to use the ingame mechanics.
I play from around 15 advanced and elite missions that I can mostly solo and have appx 100% success and happiness.
The only missions that ever irritated me were azure and borg disconnected. Which are easily solved by avoiding.
It still floors me that the 'other side' here can't understand the concept of what I think is good for the game is not what's good for me. After some 2000+ ISA ISE and probably 10,000+ total successful mission runs advanced and elite. I think I know what I'm doing.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Your goal is to destroy an entity before enemy NPCs come within a certain range of that entity. Before you can destroy that particular entity, you have to destroy four surrounding entities. The enemy NPCs begin their journey toward the primary target entity once one of the four surrounding entities has been destroyed.
You have the travel time that it will take for those enemy NPCs to get in range of the primary target entity.
You have the amount of health the primary and surrounding entities have, should one not drop the surrounding entities at approximately the same time.
You have the damage that needs to be done.
You have the time the damage has to be done in.
You have the DPS requirement for that objective.
One can attempt to delay the enemy NPCs from reaching primary entity, which will buy the group some additional time and thus lower the DPS requirement. But this is a pug group, and there is no guarantee that anybody will have anything available to delay the enemy NPCs.
Is it spelled out in a big glowing sign? No. Is it difficult to figure out? No.
Ahh. To you the content is the requirement. Not to me. Requirements are things you meet BEFORE you get to the content. Your terminology is misleading in it's usage.
And well, it's curious that you ask the following bit...
"If there are requirements, then why are they not enforced?"
...cause you've been arguing to remove that enforcement that does exist. If you can't do it in Advanced, the mission fails. If you can't do it in Normal, the optional fails.
Actually, requirements are things you must meet to access the content. So I am not asking them to removing something that is not there. Your use of the term is improper in that respects. Not completing some part of the content does not mean you failed to meet the requirements to get to the content in the first place. Just means that what ever you did didn't complete the objectives. It also doesn't mean that you can't alter what you are doing to get the success.
And by only enforcing the fail of it in some fashion, it allows for both build and play diversity by allowing groups that have reached a consensus beforehand on how they want to tackle the queue to tackle it in various ways.
Timers don't allow PUG's to reach a consensus beforehand. There's no time to talk.
The argument is that Normal will familiarize you with the map and the objectives. It prepares you in that fashion. You do Normal, you learn the general requirements. You know where to go from each engagement to the next. You know what happens during each engagement. You know what needs to be done and what needs to be avoided. You learn the basics of the mission - the objectives - the map.
Except that Normals don't do that. You don't have to familarize yourself with the map, except in a very basic way. You don't have to have a plan, and know where to go, or even know the optionals or the objectives. Normals only means you know how to shoot a moving target and kill it when it has a low amount of Sheilds and Hull points.
That does not mean one is ready for Advanced, but without that one is going to have a difficult time doing Advanced, no? If one shows up in Advanced, which is at a higher level of difficulty without knowing where to go, what to do, what not to do, what the objectives are, etc, etc, etc...what is going to happen with that run, right?
The same thing that happens in advance now. Normals and Not ever being in there is the same thing right now. I tried it. I tried going into an Advanced on content I have not run in Normal. I did very well. Better than I thought. And alot better than some of the others. I figured out what do as I went. We failed near the end because someone else warped out. We tried with four, but then the other guy warped out. He almost had it anways with just three of left. The three of us just couldn't quite do it. We failed. And then we left. As an experience, it mirrored about half of my Advanced runs in old STF's now. One or Two people TRIBBLE up and either leave or go AFK and leave the rest of us to muddle through the best we can. More often than not, I can still complete the content. But it doesn't make it any more fun or any better of a experience for me.
So running Normal will lead toward the player having some Advanced knowledge of the map and objectives. It will also give them that much more experience just piloting their boats and using their abilities, right? Good thing, yeah?
Normal doesn't give this knowledge of objectives, since they are ignored. And doesn't tell them enough about the map to be real useful. Only thing it has done and given them more time using thier ship.
Surviving the damage from the Advanced mobs? Being able to kill the Advanced mobs?
Why would one think that some plink-plink from Normal mobs and slaughtering them in return would prepare one for Advanced?
Why would they think that the damage the Normal do would scale so much in Advanced? They may not be thinking it's will be the same damage amount, but what leads them them to beleive the change would as severe as it is?
Hitting up some Advanced or Elite missions/episodes/patrols...is going to give somebody a better idea, no? Having run the Normal queues, they're going to be able to extrapolate with a pretty good guesstimate between what they've been doing there with what will be needed. It's also going to give them more experience with their boat, tinkering with the build, and just working their way toward becoming the Advanced player that the Advanced queues are intended for...simple...straightforward.
Funny story that....I ran my Fed Tactical guy through Elite level for the DR episode for some till I got to the the second group of patrol missions they send you on. The third and final patrol mission in that group was the first time I encountered any problem trying to comeplete the content. And when I finally figured out that my Dificulty was set to Elite and dropped it to normal, I discovered what a breeze it was to comeple the content. Untill that time, I saw all the forum post about people saying they had leveling issues and hated the patrols and I just didn't get it. I was 60 before I got to the second set of patrols. I can tell you that I find doing the Episodes at normal did not preare me for how the things were scaled up. But doing Elite first made me understand just how large a gap there was between the levels in damage and HP.
If we could make requirements to get into the content being dependent on completing certain train content at a specific level that would be good. And have it only apply to PUG's and not to pre-mades would be good too.
Then there is also the community...waiting to answer questions folks might have, whether on the forums here, forums elsewhere, in various channels, in fleets, folks they might have met, etc, etc, etc. All sorts of folks that put a bunch of effort into trying to help folks...possibly cause when they were new they were helped as well.
Waiting, maybe. But there is nothing in the game that Directs people to these resources. Nor is there any reason that to beleive these resources exist. And even these resources don't have all the answers.
Problem: Unable to enjoy content because of leeches.
Solution: Run content free of leeches.
How is that not a solution? The content is being run, no? The person is getting what they wanted, yeah? Problem. Solution. Shazam.
How do you run free of leeches? In a pug enviroment that is not always an option. To do your solution for me would mean that I would have to quit playing the game. Therefore problem not solved.
It's along the lines of...
Problem: Getting wet while walking to car in driveway.
Solution: Build carport.
...didn't make the rain go away, but the problem is solved.
Ahh. But the walk way is there for all to use and be protected. Not just those that know the secret path. The carport protects all no matter what they are doing. And you didn't have to join a special group to get to the carport.
The folks that have gone to channel runs have not quit trying to find a solution to the problem. They have found a solution to the problem.
Actually, yes they did quit trying to find a solution. They found a work around that works for them. But the problem is not solved. It remains and continues to plague the PUG's.
This is what you said...
You've got them teaming up together.
You've got the three of them working together to get the unprepared ready.
So yeah, you did organize them into going out to save the PUGworld.
Miscommunication. When I said 'unprepared' I was trying to refer to the members of thier team that was not prepared. Not to the population at large. Sorry for the confusion.
That is a forum discussion. That is a planning discussion amongst a group of folks looking at doing something. That is perhaps a chat channel discussion where folks are bouncing ideas around. The thing friends or a fleet might do on teamspeak or the like.
It's also something that's been done to death and one can go through to read all about it in their free time...without expecting others to give up their time.
And well, you know, we're talking about Advanced.
And what about Advance means 'Don't talk or plan just go do'? In a PUG you don't have the pre content time to plan because it's a PUG. A group of people who have never met before and running a certain content together. They need time within the content to figure out what to do, who is doing it and when to pull back and rethink the plan. Timers make sure that doesn't happen.
Would be nifty if there was some place one could look up various strategies for tackling Advanced content when one feels ready to move on from Normal...or...a place one could ask about it, yeah? Oh wait...
Yeah, right. Like every person comes to the forums. They don't. And instead of forcing people to come here, the games needs to provide the information within it to provide those answers. Goes along with teaching people the basics of ship builds and skill and talent selection.
That's a reply to the discussion on how do people learn about the various channels???
No, that is answer from me leaping ahead in my thoughts.
I'm not a fan of removing content. People like running what they like, and they should be able to run what they like. The difference for me would be with public and private. Everything would remain for folks to hit up via private runs. The public queues would go to a random map scenario based on the primary reward.
Somebody's looking for Omega Marks from Space? They queue for Task Force Omega...they get a random queue that provides Omega Marks. Etc, etc, etc.
Folks that enjoy running specific content will still be able to do that through private runs - so they don't lose anything, but it cuts down on the number of public facing queues.
That's forcing people to play a certain specific way all the time. Leave specific runs open to the public. You could, though take the random map queue and give a bonus box at the end for either marks or gear for just completing an STF through this selection. Might just incentivize people to run those random maps and up the number of people pugging.
I know that's what you're saying. I asked how could that possibly be true if there are people doing content other than Normal? If the game never prepared them...they could not be doing it, could they? So that's why it's just an excuse. Everything is there...everything is not handed to people on a platinum platter...it's there, everything they need to tackle Advanced. Elite...they're going to need some player help for that...but Elite is meant for players better than Advanced and requires more than Advanced.
Actually, everything is not there. Ship build concepts are not even in the game right now. And skill selection. You left to guess what each thing does for you. Not even the tool tips tell you everything you need to know about the skill. And Traits are just as bad and vague. There is nothing in the game that helps people understand what the basics are even.
I am not saying to give everything out on the proverbial latinum platter, but it would be nice if they at least gave a wooden bowl and spoon. Just the basics to get people thinking about it. And enough knowledge to know what they should at least consider. The game is not doing it right now.
Does the game include what's provided by CLR? (Combat Log Reader) No, it doesn't. A link to it can be found in the Official DPS League & DPS Channels Thread. It's an awesome player created/maintained tool that provides all sorts of information - damage in, damage out, healing in, healing out, aggro, what pets are doing, flanking %, critical hit %, accuracy/misses, shield healing/damage (in and out), hull healing/damage (in and out), information on resistances...etc, etc, etc...it's a massive tool.
So what would it take for Cryptic to go through and create such a tool...to maintain it...like CLR is maintained? Programmers, UI Artists, what kind of load is it going to put on the client if it's something running, and the list goes on and on...
...where not everybody's really going to care about that, it would have to be fit into the schedule, if there were problems those would have be scheduled to be fixed and fixed when?
It simply doesn't make any logical sense for Cryptic to do it themselves when there is such an awesome tool already available; and serious thanks goes out to omegashoker for it and anybody that helps in anyway to improve it and keep it going.
So one will have an idea on what they're doing, yeah? And there are the forums here and elsewhere where one can ask questions/ask for suggestions/etc...and folks are more than willing to help, yeah?
If they don't want to create the tools, fine. Then provide the means to let others create the tools. And then provide the means for people to know about these options so they can choose if they want it or not. And don't make it be a chore to create these tools and to get them to work with your software.
ESD is a cesspool. I didn't play a Fed toon for almost a year because I kept forgetting to switch over to another chat tab to avoid the garbage from ESD.
Yet most players are Feds, according to Cryptic. That means that is going to be the first place people will encounter the 'comunity' and jusge it by.
Yep, had to do it on my own.
1) Go to forums.
2) Read.
3) Know.
Nobody came along while I was sleeping and poured the info in my ear.
And does the forums provide every single answer to your questions? They don't for me. In fact there is nowhere on the internet that has the answers I want at times. And the rare occasions I ask on the forums for answer to a questions, I get more idiot responses than useful and topic ones.
No body poured the knowledge in my head either. But then, I don't know everything I want to know about the game either. And no one but the devs ahve the answers, it seems.
I explained that earlier, but yeah-no, there's no gating in STO. Any time gating is brought up, people have a cow. They don't want to be gated from content even if five folks show up nowhere near what that content requires are going to fail miserably.
It's also been discussed out the wahzoo just how gating would even be possible.
Number of Normal runs unlocking an Accolade? Doesn't mean the person paid attention in those runs - they could have been carried there. So that doesn't mean they'll have any knowledge of the objectives/map/etc. It also does nothing about it being Normal mobs vs. Advanced or Elite mobs.
Have some math analyst go through and extrapolate a conversion of Normal DPS vs. Advanced DPS, so somebody would have to reach a certain threshold in Normal that was well above making Normal painfully easy?
The discussion goes on and on for countless pages in countless threads.
But we have time gating now. You can only run the content so often. It has a cool down. People just don't want the gating to be longer. Of course I would like to have it removed completely, but the abuse down that path is why we the cool downs we have now.
It's a player issue...a player has to address it. They have to show the initiative to look at what they're doing and ask other players about it. It's a MMO...there's a community.
Folks not pursuing options does not mean there are not options. It's why paxdawn and shadowwraith77 keep tending to say what they're saying, eh? Folks are ignoring options while complaining there are no options - no way to do things - when the options and how to do stuff is there, no? Bazinga...it's there.
Just because an option is present, doesn't mean it's viable. Creating more options will only help the game, especially if they are more viable for some people than the options already in the game..
That was in asking it of the players...not of the game showing it to the players. Again, CLR's an awesome tool.
But the game should be providing the means to do that. And CLR is not that awesome of a tool. I found it to be inaccurate enough to paint a proper picture for me.
Voila...you asked about it earlier...you answered it yourself. You wanted to know, you looked for a way to know, you found a solution, and you used it. That's initiative...that's something that is sorely lacking out there.
I guess you don't quit get the issues with that. If I am looking outside of the game to get answers for what's going on the game, then the game has failed at providing the what is necessary to play the game.
For something like ISE(pre-DR)/ISA(DR), I said the difference was 1-2k DPS. Folks said I was crazy. Well, if the required for ISE was ~5k and the required for ISA is ~7k...er...it is what it is. No, that's not the player requirement increase if they want to have their 4-7 minute ISA like they had their 4-7 minute ISE...but I'm kind of a TRIBBLE player requirements - there are separate channels for folks looking to do things at a certain pace.
Hell, I even had a thread talking about Mediocre Builds, Average DPS, But Still Having Fun or something (I'd have to look to see the actual thread title - won't link it because the builds I had in that thread I deleted from STOacademy). I advocated folks just trying to have fun while being in the 4-9k or 3-8k range. There were folks out there doing almost 90k at the time, the DPS Channels had different amounts, it was a different time in the game...but there were folks pushing their 15k, 20k, 30k back then too. Meh, if one wants to do that - go do it - have a blast...it's not needed for the content. But just like that content requirement shifted that little bit, so too did the range I advocated...
...and with that range being advocated, there was the middle-ground below it, and then folks that kind of just bugged me. Somebody showing up for ISE doing 1-2k or less (the 2k literally being 2000 and thus 2000 or below, not 2500 - that would fall into that middle-ground)...well, that's just looking to fail. Somebody showing up doing 1-3k or less...or 4k or less without bringing anything to help offset the reduced DPS which would help there be a chance at getting it done...well, that's just looking to fail.
Course, even with the lower end of the spectrum (the 4+/5k)...unless there's some buffer coming in from the others, well, too many players at that end is going to make run overly dicey.
Gets into the RNG of Groups stuff...and what paxdawn has been talking about with being able to carry the group. Having some buffer there to make up for what might be missing.
I used to shoot for 7-<10k range, figuring on carrying a bit of buffer - while also doing something else...healing, crowd control, debuffing, buffing...trying to help out those folks that were close to but not quite at the requirement. It's just not something where I was going to build to do the same for the folks showing up doing 1-<2k.
As time has gone on since Delta Rising, a lot of the folks that would been there also carrying some buffer - have moved on - leaving more and more a pool of those folks at or near the content requirements and many more that are still there doing 1-2K.
Looking on the DPS League Table...there are 6934 people listed at 10k or more...those are all folks with access to the DPS-10,000 channel and folks that might just not be hitting the public queues as much as they were, eh? ~2770 of them are doing 10-<15k DPS. The next channel after 10k is 30k...there are ~5962 people between 10k and <30k....Hell, there's ~4287 folks between 10k and <20k. That's not counting all the other folks that may have moved to various channels in the interim as well.
One might say, "Hey, folks going to channels made it worse!" How? No doubt, imho, it's worse...but how did they make it worse? Cause they're no longer helping to mask the underlying issue so everybody can conveniently avoid and ignore it? It's a bad thing to point out the problem? Yeah, no...imho...they found a solution and good for them. My solution would involve people being honest with themselves...but I've mentioned here and there I'm a little idealistic and delusional.
I don't think they made it worse. I think that the changes made to the content has driven people away from Pugging because it was easy to get screwed over by one person. The people who go to the channels are playing the way they want to. And I am fine with that. But it also exposed the fact that the content changes has made PUGing not as viable and harms to player you has to little time and resources to do more than what they are doing. Trying to get better can only happen if you get to complete the content. And that can only happen if there are no auto-fails that can be triggered by the bad apples in the game.
Others might have...it was a simple disclosure thing. I'm not a 75k+ guy trying to keep the little guy down, but it does put me just outside the top 10% on the table.
Are you parsing with CLR or ACT or one of the others? Do you have a 10k invite sitting there?
I Don't use either. I have tried both. ACT jsut couldn't get it to provide the info I want. And CLR didn't quite put it in a format that I found appealing. STO-DPS.com(?) is a website that puts the information in a manner better suited for me. And keeps a running track to accross all content. SO I can clearly track how well I have improved at a glance, and well as provide the information I want to know in depth, most of the time.
If the expectations for Advanced are the same as for Normal, then why is it Advanced?
Because the difficulty is different and the rewards are different.
But that's the thing...er...Normal, Advanced, Elite...they're not different maps. It's the same content at a different level of difficulty...one is not missing out on content from not being able to do Advanced or Elite.
No, but one is missing out on the planning and testing of content completion for Advanced. Without actually doing the Advanced Content, I have no way of knowing if the strats I used in Normal will work in Advanced. Sticking around affords the me the option to try new strats or refine old ones. Not an option if you leave or just get kicked. Also, if I can run the content with less people, then I can figure out if I need more firepower to do things, or better skills, or better traits. It also alllows me to see if the changes from the last run are having any effect on this run. Being able to complete the content, and failing the optionals, tell sme so much more about how I am doing and what I need to change, than just failing because some body wanted to be a troll.
And eat a leaver penalty or wait until you hoped the leaver penalty did not apply...during which time you are held hostage? Again, the reply just above...you've seen it already in doing Normal.
But I didn't see it in Normal. Cause I got to complete the content anyways and learn more than those you just gave up. And the Leaver penelty is there whether you have auto-fails or not. SO what difference does that make. None.
It's basically a case that I know next to nothing about Ground, it's just not my thing. I'll muddle through missions, in adventure/battle zones, but I'm not going to queue for it (BHE/BHA's the only intentional Ground stuff I did, and that's just cause it was just so damn easy at the time - easier than doing an episode).
With the leveling, meh, prior to S7 I refused to pay $5 for a respec...so I'd be rerolling my guys every 2-3 weeks and got pretty good at leveling toons. I rerolled everybody for S7. Course at the end of 2013, I deleted all but one toon (deleting 11 of 12) and rerolled 9 of them...er...let me check here:
Where the Reman had been the only one kept, so yeah, only 8...I had an additional slot I didn't use (was waiting on KDF aligned Ferengi, lol).
But then shortly before Delta Rising, I deleted all of them as well...oh well. But yeah, I'm pretty good at getting a toon 1-50 pretty fast. The 50-60 and so forth...yeah, not so good...lol.
I don't normally delete characters. And I only have 2 Characters at 60 so far. And I think 6 guys between 50 and 60. And three guys below 10. Two of those below 10 are scheduled to be deleted because I made them only for Delta Recruit.
If players were to improve...the queues would improve. What you stated was an opinion on how they could be improved...without evidence to support that the changes would actually result in an improvement of the queue. Opinion, untested theory, untested hypothesis...not a fact.
No. Just No. ANd I am not going to say more, because I can see that it is fruitless to argue with you. You failed to see the distinction I made. And I have no better way to put it.
Leveling didn't used to be so solo...didn't used to be so quick. Folks actually hit up queues along the way...low level queues were bumping. Folks wanted faster. Folks wanted more solo. Low level queues died. The historic precedent for it already exists in the game itself.
I know. I have been playing this game for over 4 years. I liked those days in some ways.
Course, imho, it also created other factors there...cause that interaction with other players during the leveling process also provided feedback - allowed one to see how they were doing - and so forth...better preparing them for once they got to the endgame.
Agreed.
Folks didn't think about that with going more solo and making everything much faster...folks tend not to think about the consequences of their requests (Cryptic tends not to think about the consequences of them fulfilling those requests...or maybe they did, makes it easier for them to sell stuff to folks - more and more stuff, cause they won't realize how little it's helping them compared to other folks...but that's tinfoil hat area).
I wasn't vocal in those days. But I would have pointed it out then if I had bothered to check out the forums then.
It was possible for the old ANRA to be a high-end ANRN, an ANRA, or even an ANRE. It did not offer a consistent challenge to players expected to face an Advanced queue. If they'd gone with fixed instead of random spawns...they could have provided that consistent challenge, rather than it basically being a case of the group needing to capable of doing an ANRE just in case those were the spawns they got. It's an Advanced queue...not an Elite queue...they shouldn't have had to do that.
Yeah, Old ANRA was still completable, it may have been hard. But it was still doable. Now you may not get the chance. Which is the problem in my book.
Well, er, and speaking of consistency...though some might consider this dirty pool...I don't quite get the complaints about failed optionals there when you dismissed optionals earlier in the discussion about trolls.
I didn't dismis optionals. I dismissed fails with trolls. Failing optionals don't end the STF. Failing Mandatories stops the STF's. And that is what I don't like the trolls for. Keep them from stopping my content and I would be fine again. The changes that they are making is doing this pretty nicely. Better in the new queues than what they did in ANRA. ANRA needs another fine tuning to fix this one issue.
I didn't dismis optionals. I dismissed fails with trolls. Failing optionals don't end the STF. Failing Mandatories stops the STF's. And that is what I don't like the trolls for. Keep them from stopping my content and I would be fine again. The changes that they are making is doing this pretty nicely. Better in the new queues than what they did in ANRA. ANRA needs another fine tuning to fix this one issue.
You contradict yourself badly, before you wanted the mandatory fails eliminated, because you simply don't like them.
Now, you are trying to put all of the blame, on trolls causing the failures but, still hit upon you simply not liking them for being timed objectives!!!
To put it simply, I find you to be a complete waste of time, because you comments have no ground to stand on!!!
You contradict yourself badly, before you wanted the mandatory fails eliminated, because you simply don't like them.
Now, you are trying to put all of the blame, on trolls causing the failures but, still hit upon you simply not liking them for being timed objectives!!!
To put it simply, I find you to be a complete waste of time, because you comments have no ground to stand on!!!
Then you have your own issues.
Yes I don't like auto-fails. I don't like the auto-fails because they can be trolled by one person.
I don't like timers. I don't like the timers because they are a detriment to communication and planning for PUG's.
No Contridictions. They are two seperate things. And I only gave further details as to why I don't like them.
And if you find me a complete waste of time, then you have issues, man. And if you don't think I have the ability to dislike something for a specific reason, then you are not living in reality. My comments do have ground to stand on.
It's a trip, in a sense...imho that is. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the folks in Normal having a better clue as what to do than the folks in Advanced. It paints a pretty bleak picture of those that say Normal doesn't prepare one - when those folks in Normal are tackling the objectives cause they know them while the folks in Advanced are tackling the objectives like they just bought the account and that was their first login...meh.
At the end of Undine Infiltration Elite you can see how many interviews you got right. Obviously since the change to the optionals its all 10 because otherwise the mission would have failed.
But for me they are still listed as optionals. +5 Undine, +5 Innocent: +10 Optionals correct.
It's a trip, in a sense...imho that is. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the folks in Normal having a better clue as what to do than the folks in Advanced. It paints a pretty bleak picture of those that say Normal doesn't prepare one - when those folks in Normal are tackling the objectives cause they know them while the folks in Advanced are tackling the objectives like they just bought the account and that was their first login...meh.
That is pretty ignorant. Normal and advanced have a very significant difference in difficulty. Different enemy groups spawn. Different tactics may well be required.
ISN one person can generally DPS the nanites before they get to the transformer. ISA you will kill the transformer faster than the nanites. You aren't prepared for advanced by doing normal there. If you go in thinking you can DPS them down and don't have a grav well at the least, you're probably going to fail. Why? Because normal taught you things that don't work on advanced.
Normal certainly doesn't inform you what the fail condition is on advanced. Advanced doesn't even do that until you fail, most if not all are still listed as "optional" objectives.
It doesn't matter if you know the objectives if you have to approach them completely differently, and you won't learn that until you do advanced.
That is pretty ignorant. Normal and advanced have a very significant difference in difficulty. Different enemy groups spawn. Different tactics may well be required.
Did I say anything about tactics? Talk about ignorant.
ISN one person can generally DPS the nanites before they get to the transformer. ISA you will kill the transformer faster than the nanites. You aren't prepared for advanced by doing normal there. If you go in thinking you can DPS them down and don't have a grav well at the least, you're probably going to fail. Why? Because normal taught you things that don't work on advanced.
Normal didn't teach people not to think. Talk about ignorant.
Normal certainly doesn't inform you what the fail condition is on advanced. Advanced doesn't even do that until you fail, most if not all are still listed as "optional" objectives.
It doesn't matter if you know the objectives if you have to approach them completely differently, and you won't learn that until you do advanced.
If you don't know the objectives, you can't even start to consider what to do. Talk about ignorant.
Wish I could ignore your ignorant excuses...cause it's the same ignorant garbage over and over, ignoring everything that's there, to make more ignorant excuses.
That is pretty ignorant. Normal and advanced have a very significant difference in difficulty. Different enemy groups spawn. Different tactics may well be required.
ISN one person can generally DPS the nanites before they get to the transformer. ISA you will kill the transformer faster than the nanites. You aren't prepared for advanced by doing normal there. If you go in thinking you can DPS them down and don't have a grav well at the least, you're probably going to fail. Why? Because normal taught you things that don't work on advanced.
Normal certainly doesn't inform you what the fail condition is on advanced. Advanced doesn't even do that until you fail, most if not all are still listed as "optional" objectives.
It doesn't matter if you know the objectives if you have to approach them completely differently, and you won't learn that until you do advanced.
Did I say anything about tactics? Talk about ignorant.
Normal didn't teach people not to think. Talk about ignorant.
Except it does. Talk about ignorant.
If you don't know the objectives, you can't even start to consider what to do. Talk about ignorant.
Wish I could ignore your ignorant excuses...cause it's the same ignorant garbage over and over, ignoring everything that's there, to make more ignorant excuses.
So much anger , so much angst , so many fancy pantsy words being flung to and fro like a poo flinging monkey at a zoo.
Ok you two give each other a big hug and kiss and make up
Ok ok all jokes aside
Normal difficulty is a good way for those who dont know the objective to get a run through and learn them before moving on to advanced think practice mode.
Advanced should never be PUGGED unless your brave lucky or insane....maybe all of the above personally you wont find me doing an advanced PUG ever.
The insta fails are a pain in a PUG since either you get players who dont know the objectiver so ignore it OR you get the random STF troll who goes out of thier way to ensure it fails.
So some advice for advanced is either have a team of close friends or fleet mates who know the objectives inside and then run advanced.
Elite difficulty is as it states elite only the very best should attempt this stage of STF i think that alone covers elite STFs.
Should insta fail optionals be removed yes and no.
Yes they should since some players dont have the skill or gear to accomplish thye goals and also the STF trolls which seem to be a new blight on advanced STFs.
No becuase it gives a new challenge to players
I think STFs should go back to the old ways but with some added tweaks
Advanced would be the new normal without insta fails
Elite would be the new advanced WITH fail optionals in certain cases
Simulation (For lack of a better word) would be the most challenging as the elites are now
Rewards would be like
Advanced = 1 BNP ( or other item like it) 50 Marks your choice 400 dil
Elite = 2 BNP ( etc etc) 100 Marks your choice 600 dil
Simulation = 5 BNP ( you get the idea) 1500 Marks 1500 Dil
The rewards would reflect difficulty such as advanced being the lowest sim being the highest making sims being the most lucritrive if your able to complete it
Did I say anything about tactics? Talk about ignorant.
Tactics are part of "preparation." If you don't know you need to do things a certain way, you aren't prepared.
Normal didn't teach people not to think. Talk about ignorant.
You're not even trying to make a point against what I said.
Except it does. Talk about ignorant.
Really? Where? Where does it say in any normal STF, "This objective is critical to advanced difficulty!" Or something to that effect? Why is it that so many advanced STFs list the mandatory as OPTIONAL?
You are flat out wrong.
If you don't know the objectives, you can't even start to consider what to do.
That isn't something I disagree with at all, and not one word of that is counter to my point.
Wish I could ignore your ignorant excuses...cause it's the same ignorant garbage over and over, ignoring everything that's there, to make more ignorant excuses.
I wish you could stop acting like a petulant child in need of a dictionary. You're only posting this out of some disturbing need to counter everything I say even when you're completely wrong in doing so.
So much anger , so much angst , so many fancy pantsy words being flung to and fro like a poo flinging monkey at a zoo.
It's cause at least other folks that make excuses...there's some coherent thought behind them. This guy...there's some heinous cognitive dissonance going on...meh.
Tactics are part of "preparation." If you don't know you need to do things a certain way, you aren't prepared.
Objectives are objectives. How one tackles those objectives is another thing.
Simple. Straightforward.
People are showing up without a clue as to what the objectives are in Advanced. Not a case that they do not know how to tackle the objectives. They have no clue what they even are.
Really? Where? Where does it say in any normal STF, "This objective is critical to advanced difficulty!" Or something to that effect? Why is it that so many advanced STFs list the mandatory as OPTIONAL?
You are flat out wrong.
Normal tells you what the objectives are. Advanced tells you if the objective is no longer an optional. It's simple paying attention...looking.
Do you have any screenshots of those advanced STFs stating that the mandatory objective is an optional?
Cause, a bunch of folks have said that...and a bunch of folks have asked just wtf they're talking about...cause they haven't seen the same thing.
I wish you could stop acting like a petulant child in need of a dictionary. You're only posting this out of some disturbing need to counter everything I say even when you're completely wrong in doing so.
And this only shows even more failbrain on your part...
It's like talking to a child that's crying at a sliding glass door for being closed after the child walked into it...obviously it's not the child's fault. Stupid door. Stupid, stupid door. All the door's fault.
So much anger , so much angst , so many fancy pantsy words being flung to and fro like a poo flinging monkey at a zoo.
Ok you two give each other a big hug and kiss and make up
Ok ok all jokes aside
Normal difficulty is a good way for those who dont know the objective to get a run through and learn them before moving on to advanced think practice mode.
Advanced should never be PUGGED unless your brave lucky or insane....maybe all of the above personally you wont find me doing an advanced PUG ever.
The insta fails are a pain in a PUG since either you get players who dont know the objectiver so ignore it OR you get the random STF troll who goes out of thier way to ensure it fails.
So some advice for advanced is either have a team of close friends or fleet mates who know the objectives inside and then run advanced.
Elite difficulty is as it states elite only the very best should attempt this stage of STF i think that alone covers elite STFs.
Should insta fail optionals be removed yes and no.
Yes they should since some players dont have the skill or gear to accomplish thye goals and also the STF trolls which seem to be a new blight on advanced STFs.
No becuase it gives a new challenge to players
I think STFs should go back to the old ways but with some added tweaks
Advanced would be the new normal without insta fails
Elite would be the new advanced WITH fail optionals in certain cases
Simulation (For lack of a better word) would be the most challenging as the elites are now
Rewards would be like
Advanced = 1 BNP ( or other item like it) 50 Marks your choice 400 dil
Elite = 2 BNP ( etc etc) 100 Marks your choice 600 dil
Simulation = 5 BNP ( you get the idea) 1500 Marks 1500 Dil
The rewards would reflect difficulty such as advanced being the lowest sim being the highest making sims being the most lucritrive if your able to complete it
Ok, I like the idea. Especially the rewards options. Though Cryptic would probably lower the marks gained. But you forgot to add the VR mats. But if you reward the nsame number of VR mats as your BNP's, I would be totally onboard.
Tactics are part of "preparation." If you don't know you need to do things a certain way, you aren't prepared.
You're not even trying to make a point against what I said.
Really? Where? Where does it say in any normal STF, "This objective is critical to advanced difficulty!" Or something to that effect? Why is it that so many advanced STFs list the mandatory as OPTIONAL?
You are flat out wrong.
That isn't something I disagree with at all, and not one word of that is counter to my point.
I wish you could stop acting like a petulant child in need of a dictionary. You're only posting this out of some disturbing need to counter everything I say even when you're completely wrong in doing so.
I get the feeling that Virusdancer is trolling you. Mind you, that's my impression based on his responses.
It's a trip, in a sense...imho that is. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the folks in Normal having a better clue as what to do than the folks in Advanced. It paints a pretty bleak picture of those that say Normal doesn't prepare one - when those folks in Normal are tackling the objectives cause they know them while the folks in Advanced are tackling the objectives like they just bought the account and that was their first login...meh.
Let's see...I said this - not as a reply to anybody:
And he starts off his reply with:
* * * * *
But hey, if you think I'm trolling him...it makes as much sense as anything else you've said in the thread. :rolleyes:
I got it from the the incessant use of the word "ignorant" in your responses to him. And like your above statement about the validity of my opinions and thoughts on the this subject, it tends more towards looking to illicite an emotional response than actual meaningful, thought provoking, or fact gathering communication.
Hence why it seems that you are trolling rather than being constructive.
Of course, you may believe that illiciting emotional responses is actually constructive. In which case I would have to disagree.
As for him, you already slapped him for using ignorant. No need for me to say he had chosen his words poorly for this. He should have left ignorant out of it. But you didn't need to beat him to death with it either.
I got it from the the incessant use of the word "ignorant" in your responses to him.
While ignoring that's how he started off his post, yeah? It's not a case that I'm trying to elicit an emotional response...it's a case that he succeeded in eliciting an emotional response from me.
Advanced = 1 BNP ( or other item like it) 50 Marks your choice 400 dil
Elite = 2 BNP ( etc etc) 100 Marks your choice 600 dil
Simulation = 5 BNP ( you get the idea) 1500 Marks 1500 Dil
The rewards would reflect difficulty such as advanced being the lowest sim being the highest making sims being the most lucritrive if your able to complete it
I am actually against what you want but I can tweak it. If Advance would scaled down to normal difficulty and Simulation would be the current elite rewards should scale base on level of difficulty, the rewards should be corresponding to level of difficulty.
Since you based it in your random opinion, let me base it on something a stat that we can base on, If you want to remove certain variables, same missions on diffirent level of difficult, same quality of players, the scaling of rewards would look this in your suggestion:
(current Normal) Advance - 1 Salvage tech / 1 of each item
(current advance) Elite - 5-10 Salvage tech / 5-10x of each item of Advance
(current elite) Simulation -15-20 Salvage tech / 15-20x of each item of Advance
Based on dps high performance runs, same quality of players, HSN 18 secs finish, HSE 350-400 secs.
Tactics are part of "preparation." If you don't know you need to do things a certain way, you aren't prepared.
You're not even trying to make a point against what I said.
Really? Where? Where does it say in any normal STF, "This objective is critical to advanced difficulty!" Or something to that effect? Why is it that so many advanced STFs list the mandatory as OPTIONAL?
You are flat out wrong.
That isn't something I disagree with at all, and not one word of that is counter to my point.
I wish you could stop acting like a petulant child in need of a dictionary. You're only posting this out of some disturbing need to counter everything I say even when you're completely wrong in doing so.
I would really like you to show me, what STF lists ANY optional as a mandatory and, I would be surprised.
Otherwise, even I am calling you a liar atm on this one.
I would really like you to show me, what STF lists ANY optional as a mandatory and, I would be surprised.
Otherwise, even I am calling you a liar atm on this one.
Assuming you actually meant mandatory listed as optional, then go look at bug hunt. Alarm bugs are mandatory on advanced and will fail the queue if not completed, yet it is explicitly listed as an optional.
Assuming you actually meant mandatory listed as optional, then go look at bug hunt. Alarm bugs are mandatory on advanced and will fail the queue if not completed, yet it is explicitly listed as an optional.
This mission like many others were, only needs to be text altered like all of the rest were so, I grant you this 1 and my apologies [I am sorry].
However, the most mentioned ones being Borg STF's, people claim the optionals listed as mandatory, in which case they are not.
Once they fix that small issue for bug hunt, than there will be no excuses on an account of optional vs mandatory, unless people can dig up another one that need be changed.
Assuming you actually meant mandatory listed as optional, then go look at bug hunt. Alarm bugs are mandatory on advanced and will fail the queue if not completed, yet it is explicitly listed as an optional.
Have you done a bug report for it? Cause that would be a bug. (no pun intended)
While ignoring that's how he started off his post, yeah? It's not a case that I'm trying to elicit an emotional response...it's a case that he succeeded in eliciting an emotional response from me.
Read the rest of what I said. I did agree that he shouldn't have used the word ignorant in the first place. It's your response to him that had a more lasting impression, in a negative way, with me. If you had not been so empassioned over the word "ignorant" and just responded in a more level headed manner, I would not had said anything to, and pointed out that he shouldn't have started of the way he did.
That is pretty ignorant. Normal and advanced have a very significant difference in difficulty. Different enemy groups spawn. Different tactics may well be required.
ISN one person can generally DPS the nanites before they get to the transformer. ISA you will kill the transformer faster than the nanites. You aren't prepared for advanced by doing normal there. If you go in thinking you can DPS them down and don't have a grav well at the least, you're probably going to fail. Why? Because normal taught you things that don't work on advanced.
Normal certainly doesn't inform you what the fail condition is on advanced. Advanced doesn't even do that until you fail, most if not all are still listed as "optional" objectives.
It doesn't matter if you know the objectives if you have to approach them completely differently, and you won't learn that until you do advanced.
Problem is that Normal and Advanced tend to be different from each other. ISN is clearly different from ISA. In that case, Normal won't really prepare you for Advanced; and most ppl trying their hand at the latter will, no doubt, see it burnt a couple of times first.
GGE, however, is, functionally, pretty much the same as GGA (except that the former comes with actual fail conditions, and the NPCs are a lot nastier).
Problem is that Normal and Advanced tend to be different from each other. ISN is clearly different from ISA. In that case, Normal won't really prepare you for Advanced; and most ppl trying their hand at the latter will, no doubt, see it burnt a couple of times first.
How is ISN clearly different than ISA?
Initial Engagement. Different mobs? But still the initial engagement, right? Until that completes, one cannot attack anything else. Once that completes, the 15 minute optional timer starts.
Left/Right Transformer. Sphere instead of Cube? Still a case of taking out the Gens and Transformer before the Nanites get there, yeah? Still a case that taking out a Gen triggers the spawn of the Nanites, right?
Tac Cube/Gateway. Pew pew.
So the underlying play is the same, yeah? What's different? Mob health? Clicking any mob will show that.
In Normal one might be able to wham-bam through things...but clicking on them in Normal and Advanced should point out that's not going to happen.
I can obliterate X in no time. Y isn't X...so Y might take some time. It's simple thinking.
It's just paying attention in Normal and you'll have everything but the DPS to do Advanced. To get the DPS to do Advanced...you're not going to get it in Advanced and you don't have to hit up ISA to see that. One can hit up missions/episodes, changing the difficulty from Normal to Advanced/Elite to see about how long things take to kill by comparison.
One prepares for the objectives by running ISN.
One prepares for flying the map/pathing by running ISN.
One prepares their build through a combination of ISN and hitting up Advanced/Elite solo content.
So many folks hitting up ISA pop that first Gen oblivious to it spawning the Nanites.
So many folks after the Gens are down ignore the Transformer oblivious to that being a goal.
The first bit of knowledge there comes about from paying half-assed attention in ISN.
The second bit of knowledge there is plainly spelled out in the dialogue/pop up.
Some folks will say the tactics for ISN do not prepare one to run ISA...ISN's easy, why would the same tactics work in ISA? Why would one even think that they would?
ISN prepares you with the objectives, what they are, what needs to be done, and what needs to be avoided. It allows one to familiarize themselves with the map, how their ship handles on the map, and gives them pathing experience there. Taking that info, along with some advanced prep work from hitting up some Advanced/Elite solo content, asking about the build on the forums, reading up on guides, watching videos, etc, etc, etc...putting some "Advanced" into getting read to run Advanced, eh?
If it were a case that ISN were ISN and ISA were actually HSA...then no, ISN wouldn't prepare somebody for ISA (as HSA). But it's not that is it?
ISA should fail if the group does not have the DPS or the combination of DPS/CC to pop the Transformer before the Nanites get there. It shouldn't fail cause only 1-2 of the folks are firing on the Transformer while others are off chasing butterflies. It shouldn't fail cause one person flew over there and popped the first Gen while folks were still slowboating their way over there.
And that last bit, sometimes it's trolling...but sometimes it's just /facepalm.
The way I'd handle that, though, would be to change it from the Nanites spawning on the first Gen down to spawning on the fourth Gen popping...while increasing the health of the Transformer so it requires around the same amount of DPS (or combination of DPS/CC) to get it down as if it were the first Gen that caused the Nanite spawn. It would make it harder to troll, would make /facepalms less painful, while still offering a test.
No, it's not the same test - it's not a test of working together or the like...but it's been demonstrated for years now that's kind of a lost cause and one of the reasons that folks have disappeared into channel runs, yeah?
Logic would dictate, that after several attempts using the same strategy and continuously failing, that it might be time for a new strategy!
If people don't grasp that after the killing the generators, that the next object to take out is the transformer, instead of taking on multiple spheres that they cannot handle.
Than, they simply don't pay attention to the objectives listed and, need go back to normal because it is exactly the same objective listed.
If they cannot handle a single advanced sphere in less than 3mins., than they need stick with normal or, get to making improvements on their ship/character and possibly themselves.
This mission like many others were, only needs to be text altered like all of the rest were so, I grant you this 1 and my apologies [I am sorry].
However, the most mentioned ones being Borg STF's, people claim the optionals listed as mandatory, in which case they are not.
Once they fix that small issue for bug hunt, than there will be no excuses on an account of optional vs mandatory, unless people can dig up another one that need be changed.
See but this is the issue I keep bringing up. Fails are not clearly marked in most STFs. I think it was Khitomer long before DR that had in bold red letters FAILURE: 10 probes get through, or something to that effect. And that red text didn't come up after the fact, it was there from the start of that phase. I don't remember if it is still there now, or if it was just the original version of that STF.
But that NEEDS to be a part of every queue with fails. It needs to be clear and obvious what the critical objective is. It needs to stand out from the start. Why should that point even be debated?
To further go and notify the players on normal which objectives are critical in advanced and elite is the next step. So if someone does normal they can look at the objectives and see oh, this objective is critical on advanced, this one is important on elite. That is one of the differences between normal/advanced/elite that you just don't even know which objective is most important until you fail it.
Learning by failing is one thing if you can try again right away, as in lots of other MMOs, but STO kicks you out and breaks up the group for a failure.
Tac officer ( Caption ) weapons locked on Cube defending the transformer Sir
Science officer ; Sir the Pegasus blew a generator , Nanite spheres are warping in to reinforce the transformer !!
First officer ( Caption ) we must Destroy that transformer before the Nanite Spheres get withinn repairing range or the mission will fail , we will be over run with borg reinforcements !!!
This type of ( Help ) is what a player should see when playing content
not what we have which is about worthless
The players should be over run...which would fail the mission and make sense and the players would know why
What we get is a fail team disbanded time wasted no one learned a thing
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
From the way I see it you are mixing stuff up nor denying the gist that I said. I have been consistent with my main suggestions for advance stuff. Do in game mechanics- improve self, improve team, get out of PuGs.
Since some of your sample, involves trollable missions, my first question would be what would be your goal, faill proof, trollable proof or better chance to complete PuG advance mission?
Because from the way you asked, is more or less trollable proof, then i would say get out of PuGs. But you already know that, everyone who have been wanting this changes in advance queue know that, but chose not to do that.
If you want fail proof, I say improve yourself and your team to the point of perfection.
if a player wants to play PuGs, all I can give is advice to optimize chance to finish PuG. But is in no way fail proof, trollable proof. They have to prepare to fail, and for trolls if they want to play PuGs.
If you are after efficiency and farming, go find the DPS channels, climb up to higher channels, pair up with optimal players, dont be picky on the mission you want vs the missions that are most efficient to finish.
Why should the devs force players to change the queing habits? For you and the few who complain about advance? This has been going on for years.
Players left the PuGs by choice. Those who remaind in PUGs are there also by choice. Those who cannot finish advance and refuse to take ingame mechanics in the current mechanics also cannot finish advance by choice.
Why that sheldoncooper's opinion matter to me when he is the same player like you in tjhis thread who refuse to use in game mechanics and pass everything to the devs to solve their advance problems?
To sum up what I have saying in this thread and previous advance nerf threads, use in game mechanics to solve your problems that were created by players from trolling to failing or finishing content. If you dont use it, dont pass these stuff to devs because it is the player's choice not to use the ingame mechanics.
I'm retired from this business.
I play from around 15 advanced and elite missions that I can mostly solo and have appx 100% success and happiness.
The only missions that ever irritated me were azure and borg disconnected. Which are easily solved by avoiding.
It still floors me that the 'other side' here can't understand the concept of what I think is good for the game is not what's good for me. After some 2000+ ISA ISE and probably 10,000+ total successful mission runs advanced and elite. I think I know what I'm doing.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I didn't dismis optionals. I dismissed fails with trolls. Failing optionals don't end the STF. Failing Mandatories stops the STF's. And that is what I don't like the trolls for. Keep them from stopping my content and I would be fine again. The changes that they are making is doing this pretty nicely. Better in the new queues than what they did in ANRA. ANRA needs another fine tuning to fix this one issue.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
It'll be wonderful to see the advance queue insta-fails being removed. The sooner the better.
You contradict yourself badly, before you wanted the mandatory fails eliminated, because you simply don't like them.
Now, you are trying to put all of the blame, on trolls causing the failures but, still hit upon you simply not liking them for being timed objectives!!!
To put it simply, I find you to be a complete waste of time, because you comments have no ground to stand on!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Then you have your own issues.
Yes I don't like auto-fails. I don't like the auto-fails because they can be trolled by one person.
I don't like timers. I don't like the timers because they are a detriment to communication and planning for PUG's.
No Contridictions. They are two seperate things. And I only gave further details as to why I don't like them.
And if you find me a complete waste of time, then you have issues, man. And if you don't think I have the ability to dislike something for a specific reason, then you are not living in reality. My comments do have ground to stand on.
I am sorry that you have problems.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
At the end of Undine Infiltration Elite you can see how many interviews you got right. Obviously since the change to the optionals its all 10 because otherwise the mission would have failed.
But for me they are still listed as optionals. +5 Undine, +5 Innocent: +10 Optionals correct.
That is pretty ignorant. Normal and advanced have a very significant difference in difficulty. Different enemy groups spawn. Different tactics may well be required.
ISN one person can generally DPS the nanites before they get to the transformer. ISA you will kill the transformer faster than the nanites. You aren't prepared for advanced by doing normal there. If you go in thinking you can DPS them down and don't have a grav well at the least, you're probably going to fail. Why? Because normal taught you things that don't work on advanced.
Normal certainly doesn't inform you what the fail condition is on advanced. Advanced doesn't even do that until you fail, most if not all are still listed as "optional" objectives.
It doesn't matter if you know the objectives if you have to approach them completely differently, and you won't learn that until you do advanced.
Did I say anything about tactics? Talk about ignorant.
Normal didn't teach people not to think. Talk about ignorant.
Except it does. Talk about ignorant.
If you don't know the objectives, you can't even start to consider what to do. Talk about ignorant.
Wish I could ignore your ignorant excuses...cause it's the same ignorant garbage over and over, ignoring everything that's there, to make more ignorant excuses.
So much anger , so much angst , so many fancy pantsy words being flung to and fro like a poo flinging monkey at a zoo.
Ok you two give each other a big hug and kiss and make up
Ok ok all jokes aside
Normal difficulty is a good way for those who dont know the objective to get a run through and learn them before moving on to advanced think practice mode.
Advanced should never be PUGGED unless your brave lucky or insane....maybe all of the above personally you wont find me doing an advanced PUG ever.
The insta fails are a pain in a PUG since either you get players who dont know the objectiver so ignore it OR you get the random STF troll who goes out of thier way to ensure it fails.
So some advice for advanced is either have a team of close friends or fleet mates who know the objectives inside and then run advanced.
Elite difficulty is as it states elite only the very best should attempt this stage of STF i think that alone covers elite STFs.
Should insta fail optionals be removed yes and no.
Yes they should since some players dont have the skill or gear to accomplish thye goals and also the STF trolls which seem to be a new blight on advanced STFs.
No becuase it gives a new challenge to players
I think STFs should go back to the old ways but with some added tweaks
Advanced would be the new normal without insta fails
Elite would be the new advanced WITH fail optionals in certain cases
Simulation (For lack of a better word) would be the most challenging as the elites are now
Rewards would be like
Advanced = 1 BNP ( or other item like it) 50 Marks your choice 400 dil
Elite = 2 BNP ( etc etc) 100 Marks your choice 600 dil
Simulation = 5 BNP ( you get the idea) 1500 Marks 1500 Dil
The rewards would reflect difficulty such as advanced being the lowest sim being the highest making sims being the most lucritrive if your able to complete it
Tactics are part of "preparation." If you don't know you need to do things a certain way, you aren't prepared.
You're not even trying to make a point against what I said.
Really? Where? Where does it say in any normal STF, "This objective is critical to advanced difficulty!" Or something to that effect? Why is it that so many advanced STFs list the mandatory as OPTIONAL?
You are flat out wrong.
That isn't something I disagree with at all, and not one word of that is counter to my point.
I wish you could stop acting like a petulant child in need of a dictionary. You're only posting this out of some disturbing need to counter everything I say even when you're completely wrong in doing so.
It's cause at least other folks that make excuses...there's some coherent thought behind them. This guy...there's some heinous cognitive dissonance going on...meh.
* * * * *
Objectives are objectives. How one tackles those objectives is another thing.
Simple. Straightforward.
People are showing up without a clue as to what the objectives are in Advanced. Not a case that they do not know how to tackle the objectives. They have no clue what they even are.
Um...that people perhaps should think isn't a point against what you said?
It's Advanced, right? Not Normal, yeah?
So...uh...different, eh?
Normal tells you what the objectives are. Advanced tells you if the objective is no longer an optional. It's simple paying attention...looking.
Do you have any screenshots of those advanced STFs stating that the mandatory objective is an optional?
Cause, a bunch of folks have said that...and a bunch of folks have asked just wtf they're talking about...cause they haven't seen the same thing.
Here is an apple. That's not an apple, it's an orange. I don't disagree.
Is how that reads.
And this only shows even more failbrain on your part...
It's like talking to a child that's crying at a sliding glass door for being closed after the child walked into it...obviously it's not the child's fault. Stupid door. Stupid, stupid door. All the door's fault.
/facepalm
Ok, I like the idea. Especially the rewards options. Though Cryptic would probably lower the marks gained. But you forgot to add the VR mats. But if you reward the nsame number of VR mats as your BNP's, I would be totally onboard.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I get the feeling that Virusdancer is trolling you. Mind you, that's my impression based on his responses.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
And you got that from...?
Let's see...I said this - not as a reply to anybody:
And he starts off his reply with:
* * * * *
But hey, if you think I'm trolling him...it makes as much sense as anything else you've said in the thread. :rolleyes:
I got it from the the incessant use of the word "ignorant" in your responses to him. And like your above statement about the validity of my opinions and thoughts on the this subject, it tends more towards looking to illicite an emotional response than actual meaningful, thought provoking, or fact gathering communication.
Hence why it seems that you are trolling rather than being constructive.
Of course, you may believe that illiciting emotional responses is actually constructive. In which case I would have to disagree.
As for him, you already slapped him for using ignorant. No need for me to say he had chosen his words poorly for this. He should have left ignorant out of it. But you didn't need to beat him to death with it either.
Let's all try and remain civil here.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
While ignoring that's how he started off his post, yeah? It's not a case that I'm trying to elicit an emotional response...it's a case that he succeeded in eliciting an emotional response from me.
I am actually against what you want but I can tweak it. If Advance would scaled down to normal difficulty and Simulation would be the current elite rewards should scale base on level of difficulty, the rewards should be corresponding to level of difficulty.
Since you based it in your random opinion, let me base it on something a stat that we can base on, If you want to remove certain variables, same missions on diffirent level of difficult, same quality of players, the scaling of rewards would look this in your suggestion:
(current Normal) Advance - 1 Salvage tech / 1 of each item
(current advance) Elite - 5-10 Salvage tech / 5-10x of each item of Advance
(current elite) Simulation -15-20 Salvage tech / 15-20x of each item of Advance
Based on dps high performance runs, same quality of players, HSN 18 secs finish, HSE 350-400 secs.
I would really like you to show me, what STF lists ANY optional as a mandatory and, I would be surprised.
Otherwise, even I am calling you a liar atm on this one.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Assuming you actually meant mandatory listed as optional, then go look at bug hunt. Alarm bugs are mandatory on advanced and will fail the queue if not completed, yet it is explicitly listed as an optional.
This mission like many others were, only needs to be text altered like all of the rest were so, I grant you this 1 and my apologies [I am sorry].
However, the most mentioned ones being Borg STF's, people claim the optionals listed as mandatory, in which case they are not.
Once they fix that small issue for bug hunt, than there will be no excuses on an account of optional vs mandatory, unless people can dig up another one that need be changed.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Have you done a bug report for it? Cause that would be a bug. (no pun intended)
Read the rest of what I said. I did agree that he shouldn't have used the word ignorant in the first place. It's your response to him that had a more lasting impression, in a negative way, with me. If you had not been so empassioned over the word "ignorant" and just responded in a more level headed manner, I would not had said anything to, and pointed out that he shouldn't have started of the way he did.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Problem is that Normal and Advanced tend to be different from each other. ISN is clearly different from ISA. In that case, Normal won't really prepare you for Advanced; and most ppl trying their hand at the latter will, no doubt, see it burnt a couple of times first.
GGE, however, is, functionally, pretty much the same as GGA (except that the former comes with actual fail conditions, and the NPCs are a lot nastier).
How is ISN clearly different than ISA?
Initial Engagement. Different mobs? But still the initial engagement, right? Until that completes, one cannot attack anything else. Once that completes, the 15 minute optional timer starts.
Left/Right Transformer. Sphere instead of Cube? Still a case of taking out the Gens and Transformer before the Nanites get there, yeah? Still a case that taking out a Gen triggers the spawn of the Nanites, right?
Tac Cube/Gateway. Pew pew.
So the underlying play is the same, yeah? What's different? Mob health? Clicking any mob will show that.
In Normal one might be able to wham-bam through things...but clicking on them in Normal and Advanced should point out that's not going to happen.
I can obliterate X in no time. Y isn't X...so Y might take some time. It's simple thinking.
It's just paying attention in Normal and you'll have everything but the DPS to do Advanced. To get the DPS to do Advanced...you're not going to get it in Advanced and you don't have to hit up ISA to see that. One can hit up missions/episodes, changing the difficulty from Normal to Advanced/Elite to see about how long things take to kill by comparison.
One prepares for the objectives by running ISN.
One prepares for flying the map/pathing by running ISN.
One prepares their build through a combination of ISN and hitting up Advanced/Elite solo content.
So many folks hitting up ISA pop that first Gen oblivious to it spawning the Nanites.
So many folks after the Gens are down ignore the Transformer oblivious to that being a goal.
The first bit of knowledge there comes about from paying half-assed attention in ISN.
The second bit of knowledge there is plainly spelled out in the dialogue/pop up.
Some folks will say the tactics for ISN do not prepare one to run ISA...ISN's easy, why would the same tactics work in ISA? Why would one even think that they would?
ISN prepares you with the objectives, what they are, what needs to be done, and what needs to be avoided. It allows one to familiarize themselves with the map, how their ship handles on the map, and gives them pathing experience there. Taking that info, along with some advanced prep work from hitting up some Advanced/Elite solo content, asking about the build on the forums, reading up on guides, watching videos, etc, etc, etc...putting some "Advanced" into getting read to run Advanced, eh?
If it were a case that ISN were ISN and ISA were actually HSA...then no, ISN wouldn't prepare somebody for ISA (as HSA). But it's not that is it?
ISA should fail if the group does not have the DPS or the combination of DPS/CC to pop the Transformer before the Nanites get there. It shouldn't fail cause only 1-2 of the folks are firing on the Transformer while others are off chasing butterflies. It shouldn't fail cause one person flew over there and popped the first Gen while folks were still slowboating their way over there.
And that last bit, sometimes it's trolling...but sometimes it's just /facepalm.
The way I'd handle that, though, would be to change it from the Nanites spawning on the first Gen down to spawning on the fourth Gen popping...while increasing the health of the Transformer so it requires around the same amount of DPS (or combination of DPS/CC) to get it down as if it were the first Gen that caused the Nanite spawn. It would make it harder to troll, would make /facepalms less painful, while still offering a test.
No, it's not the same test - it's not a test of working together or the like...but it's been demonstrated for years now that's kind of a lost cause and one of the reasons that folks have disappeared into channel runs, yeah?
If people don't grasp that after the killing the generators, that the next object to take out is the transformer, instead of taking on multiple spheres that they cannot handle.
Than, they simply don't pay attention to the objectives listed and, need go back to normal because it is exactly the same objective listed.
If they cannot handle a single advanced sphere in less than 3mins., than they need stick with normal or, get to making improvements on their ship/character and possibly themselves.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
See but this is the issue I keep bringing up. Fails are not clearly marked in most STFs. I think it was Khitomer long before DR that had in bold red letters FAILURE: 10 probes get through, or something to that effect. And that red text didn't come up after the fact, it was there from the start of that phase. I don't remember if it is still there now, or if it was just the original version of that STF.
But that NEEDS to be a part of every queue with fails. It needs to be clear and obvious what the critical objective is. It needs to stand out from the start. Why should that point even be debated?
To further go and notify the players on normal which objectives are critical in advanced and elite is the next step. So if someone does normal they can look at the objectives and see oh, this objective is critical on advanced, this one is important on elite. That is one of the differences between normal/advanced/elite that you just don't even know which objective is most important until you fail it.
Learning by failing is one thing if you can try again right away, as in lots of other MMOs, but STO kicks you out and breaks up the group for a failure.
Tac officer ( Caption ) weapons locked on Cube defending the transformer Sir
Science officer ; Sir the Pegasus blew a generator , Nanite spheres are warping in to reinforce the transformer !!
First officer ( Caption ) we must Destroy that transformer before the Nanite Spheres get withinn repairing range or the mission will fail , we will be over run with borg reinforcements !!!
This type of ( Help ) is what a player should see when playing content
not what we have which is about worthless
The players should be over run...which would fail the mission and make sense and the players would know why
What we get is a fail team disbanded time wasted no one learned a thing
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
How is it getting healed by nanite spheres worse than it being fully operational with four fully functional generators powering it?