key binds are a necessity cause of the activation delay alone, and only 2 abilities can be activating at once. you try to just click and face endless frustration with skills not activating when you need them too, because of this. plus, it divides your attention, the mouse is better used to move the camera and target things. your are at a huge disadvantage without macros, and no not just a space bar bind, i used 5 or 6.
Now if they were using third party software to run macros or maybe were using a programmable keyboard or mouse that could run macros (as opposed to just binding any additional keys/buttons to standard keybinds)...well...that's a EULA violation and they should know better.
No offense to you here at all Virus. It makes me laugh when people assume the EULA means you can't use a Gaming mouse or Keyboard.
By all means go through this http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms and point out where it states Buying something like a Razor Naga ect is in anyway something that isn't allowed.
Again no offense Virus... but there simply isn't anything in the EULA that says you can't use mouse or keyboard software... and frankly there isn't even anything in there about using marco programs.
What it says is you can't use any programs to MODIFY the game/net code to gain advantage. It doesn't say you can't have a program input a standard key press for you... because you 100% can. It is not against the EULA in anyway.
Why do we care about any of this anyway really....
"l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;"
When Cryptic makes in pretty much impossible for anyone that played this game for more then 20 min to not be in violation of this one right here. You all deserve to be banned. Cause this game is one big Design flaw. lmao
When I was younger, memory was better - had more manual dexterity, I'd mouse move and use keybinds. As I got older, started forgetting what was where - started fatfingering things all over the place, I moved almost exclusively to clicking things. Can't forget where they are when they're right there for me to see and can't fatfinger them...cause, subnuking a pet or a torp the first time or two might be funny...but it starts to get embarrassing. I'd have never dreamed of calling somebody that uses keybinds as they're set up in this game as being less skilled. Cause I kind of wish I still had the skill to do that instead of flying around in circles while still trying to figure out these damned new icons so I can click the damn things...
Now if they were using third party software to run macros or maybe were using a programmable keyboard or mouse that could run macros (as opposed to just binding any additional keys/buttons to standard keybinds)...well...that's a EULA violation and they should know better.
I guess it is the usual aging process that is going to happen to everyone of us here in future, it's nothing to worry about or to get embarassed Performance in manual dexterity and memory capacity decreases over decades. In your case however I couldn't realize such a scenario yet. lol
Based on what i have seen from your posting history over the years the complexity and versatility of your analyses, argumentations and calculations related to game mechanics have never dropped in any subject from my persepctive at least.
You're still playing in your own league. There are only a few individuals in here who could be a patch on you but your modest nature and your outstanding and entertaining forum sigs surpassing any caricatures with respect to expressiveness and ridicule distinguish yourself additionally. A paradigm is your latest one which made me laugh for good
really, cause thats how I see it, skill
hand-eye
[...]
the more you have the computer short cut things for you, short cut the operations of your ship, that in my eyes, is lack of skill-
Most bodily motion, including the motion of your hands, is being coordinated by optical cognition. And that also includes pressing keyboard buttons as a reaction to visual stimuli. Just saying.
In Star Trek Online, reducing "skill" to mere hand-eye coordination would be inadequate. This ain't Quake or Unreal Tournament. This game is more complex than that. If it was only about hand-eye twitch reaction, then the most successful sto players would be the 13 year olds. The majority of the players regarded as succesful PvP participants are in their early twenties to mid-thirties though.
I can only speak for TRH/IC (since these were the fleet I was in), but all good pvp players that came out of their "school", in the beginning learned the ropes by playing what you would call "manually", without advanced keybinds. Because it stimulated the sense for timing and buff reading, layed the groundwork for "combat awareness". And later, when felt to have tapped the full potential of the default keybind layout, some took the next logical step by customizing and further optimizing their keybinds. What that is supposed to have to do with lack of skill, is beyond me. Seriously, what's up with the dismissivenes?
What you might be thinking of are perhaps the morons who are binding all their powers to the spacebar or something. But in a tough match, those guys are usually the first ones hanging on the ropes. Spacebar spammers had no place in any proper pvp fleet premade anyway.
Oh and by the way, it's not my fault when you use term keybinds wrongly. When it comes to technicals terms like this, you need to be adequately precise, otherwise you come across unaware.
again, I come from a different era, AND I DONT HOLD it over people, ilhansk was doing his token "my day was better, folks were more skilled, here gimmi a sec while I name drop over and over, BAH- game sucks now" song
Your imagination must be working overtime to interpret my statement in such warped ways. It was you who began to slander and blame the player community, belittling their past attempts to make things better. I was merely expressing criticism directed at Cryptic, in a very reasonable manner, that the developer is ultimately responsible for this games current state. And I bet I am not the only one who shares that opinion.
Actually, I do not understand where your aversions for past player driven initiatives come from. Is it that you somehow feel wronged by certain people? What is really the source of your deep-seated anger?
And I did not say "folks were more skilled". Stop making things up. Skilled players come and go. You asked me "can there be skillful players in the t6 era?" and I replied: "Of course there are skillful players in the T6 era. New talent and skill did emerge all the time and is still emerging. That won't change."
after the giant name drop on a pile of parcers I figured ENOUGH with his own ego stroking,
[...]
-discredit his skill
How you can consider me praising the accomplishments of other folks (who mostly were never my fleetmates) to be ego-stroking, is beyond me. When I laud Hilbert for his contributions for the community, doesn't mean I take credit for him. :rolleyes:
I always give credit where credit is due. Even if it means I have to give credit to a person I personally dislike and/or had serious conflicts with. Judging by your long history of statements I don't think you can claim the same.
On the contrary, you seem to have a pathological urge to discredit other peoples skills. "Discredit his skill" That's your own words.
What's up with that? Why do you want to discredit them anyway? Seriously, what for? Does it make you feel better or something?
Other than praising your own fleetmates / friends, I have rarely seen you saying something positive about other players in the community.
Most people you're dismissing aren't playing the game nor reading the forum any longer. You are exploiting their absence by talking big. I don't know man, I just find that a bit sleazy. Not sure, but I think I saw you in the queues since 2012. You had plenty time to settle any score with the people you disliked, to settle things on the battlefield. Do you harbour bitter feelings because things weren't going the way you wanted? And now when they are gone, you are claming high ground?
When I was younger, memory was better - had more manual dexterity, I'd mouse move and use keybinds. As I got older, started forgetting what was where - started fatfingering things all over the place, I moved almost exclusively to clicking things. Can't forget where they are when they're right there for me to see and can't fatfinger them...cause, subnuking a pet or a torp the first time or two might be funny...but it starts to get embarrassing. I'd have never dreamed of calling somebody that uses keybinds as they're set up in this game as being less skilled. Cause I kind of wish I still had the skill to do that instead of flying around in circles while still trying to figure out these damned new icons so I can click the damn things...
Now if they were using third party software to run macros or maybe were using a programmable keyboard or mouse that could run macros (as opposed to just binding any additional keys/buttons to standard keybinds)...well...that's a EULA violation and they should know better.
In your own way, you've been one of the most skillful people I've met in STO.
And when it came to forum signatures, no one could ever hold a candle to you.
It might be mini, talon or even beameddown maybe who knows. One thing is clear: It's definitely somebody who's urgently seeking for attention, acceptance and public worship inside the community with the help of alts in an extinguishing sub-forum of a mmo game being in the act of its decline
It might be mini, talon or even beameddown maybe who knows. One thing is clear: It's definitely somebody who's urgently seeking for attention, acceptance and public worship inside the community with the help of alts in an extinguishing sub-forum of a mmo game being in the act of its decline
Say the guy that doesn't play this game anymore yet comes back to participate in it's QQ rage. LOL
But seriously, I couldn't not use keybinds, especially with vapers around. I'm already functioning at a 400 ms handicap compared to the rest of you XD.
I don't like dino players like yourself that quit the game and then spend their free time logging into the forums **** talking all the time
take this thread for instance,
folks were discussing community driving workarounds for balanced teams,
That's as far as I got. Perhaps if you broke your posts up it would be easier to follow.
The Ghosts you are talking about... most of us haven't went all that far away. I bet you hank has a few 60s even if he hasn't touched the game in a few months. We would all be willing to comeback/play more if CRYPTIC Showed they gave a toss about PvP.
I'm sorry but you guys discussing ways for players to work around 20 layers of Cryptic Cheese sauce is pointless.
It has all been tried. Tournaments with all sorts of different rule sets... Lethal lottos... leagues... channels... outside pug style match balancing tools... new player initiatives (and not just boot camp)... Fleet lists with recruitment contacts. You name it its been tried more then once in the last 5 years.
The extent of support shown from Cryptic for any of them... A few guest blogs, and a nice shiny title.
I don't want to shoot you or anyone else down for wanting to come up with some new fancy idea... the simple fact is however you WILL fail. Period full stop.
This games PvP can't be saved by the players... it wasn't the players that destroyed it... Can it be saved at all ? yes of course, but not by anyone posting here.
Right now there are only TWO people in the entire world that can save STO PvP...
1) is Geko... that's right, the only way it gets saved is if GEKO decides there is value in fixing it.
or
2) Gekos Boss... who could fire him. Then replace him with someone who would see value in it.
You tell him bra........... If they really truly didn't care they wouldn't keep coming back and wasting time posting here. It's just butthurt is all. They use the excuse that they are making sure the devs know about how displeased they are. As if they don't already know it. Clearly they left this game with some insecurity factor present. A little bit of cheese regret I detect?
No offense to you here at all Virus. It makes me laugh when people assume the EULA means you can't use a Gaming mouse or Keyboard.
By all means go through this http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms and point out where it states Buying something like a Razor Naga ect is in anyway something that isn't allowed.
Again no offense Virus... but there simply isn't anything in the EULA that says you can't use mouse or keyboard software... and frankly there isn't even anything in there about using marco programs.
What it says is you can't use any programs to MODIFY the game/net code to gain advantage. It doesn't say you can't have a program input a standard key press for you... because you 100% can. It is not against the EULA in anyway.
Why do we care about any of this anyway really....
"l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;"
When Cryptic makes in pretty much impossible for anyone that played this game for more then 20 min to not be in violation of this one right here. You all deserve to be banned. Cause this game is one big Design flaw. lmao
23. Official Service and Beta Testing
23.1The Games are designed for play only as offered through our Service. You agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which the game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the games, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by these Terms and the applicable EULA. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You do not have ownership of and may not sell, transfer, trade or auction any Accounts, characters, items, coin, Zen or Proprietary Materials, nor may you assist others in doing so, except as expressly authorized by us. We do not recognize any transfers occurring outside of the Service of anything related to the Service.
23.1The Games are designed for play only as offered through our Service. You agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which the game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the games, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by these Terms and the applicable EULA. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You do not have ownership of and may not sell, transfer, trade or auction any Accounts, characters, items, coin, Zen or Proprietary Materials, nor may you assist others in doing so, except as expressly authorized by us. We do not recognize any transfers occurring outside of the Service of anything related to the Service.
Exactly right Virus.
Mouse and Keyboard key binding software is 100% ok. "...by which the Service may be played automatically without human input." This covers BOTS... not keybinds. You can't program something or use a program that reacts to the game by itself. Reacting to things in the game and pushing a button however is fine. Even if that button activates 3-4 commands... its in no way a violation of anything.
And before anyone says I'm not reading that right... understand the Cryptics own system allows for one key push to activate multiple items. In fact its a pretty good system... I have never used anything but there system. However someone using a Gaming Device Software or even a Third part y key pushing software are NOT breaking the EULA. The only people that are in violation would be people creating BOT software. Its simple if you can walk away from your computer and your toon keeps on playing... your in violation of the EULA... OR if you create a software that plays with the games code or in someway interferes with the net commands at any point to or from your client.
This comes up in every MMO ever made... and I have never heard of ANY MMO company ever saying there EULA covered keybinds. Quite the opposite... those that can in general get deals with Gaming Device Companies to produce custom hardware... and at the very least they work with those companies to create "profiles" ect for those softwares. I could be wrong but I think even Cryptic at one time helped create a Profile for Razor... but I could be thinking of Bioware.
I've discussed to death this with both devs, community representatives, and done a whole load of research on it.
What it comes down to, or at least what Cryptic enforces based on the EULA, is this:
If the hardware or software you are using can make DECISIONS without player input, then it is prohibited and you are in violation of the EULA if you have that sort of thing.
A keyboard macro that pushes, say, Shift 4, ctrl 3, and the number 5 whenever you hit spacebar- that's okay. It is not performance enhancing, and it is supported within the game itself (but you can also use third party programs).
A gaming keyboard which you can program so that you hit, say, capslock, and it transmits the pressing spacebar repeatedly- that's totally acceptable. That's nothing that a player couldn't otherwise do, such as by pressing space bar repeatedly.
Maybe you don't have a gaming keyboard. Maybe you write a .bat file script to take control of your keyboard and press spacebar releatedly, or push buttons in a sequence. Keeping in mind that STO has a keyboard input limit, this grants no advantage but reducing the chances of carpal tunnel syndrome- because everything happening can be done by a player mashing keys.
HOWEVER, the moment you make, say, a script that detects a specific icon on your ship status (such as subnuke), and then pauses all key-presses and sends the keypress to activate science team, confirms activation, then returns control to the player... then we have a problem.
There a lots of physically disabled players who use accessories or automation to allow them to play the game. Cycling boff powers, or using a speech to text program to let you activate your powers with voice commands- that's all totally fine. Because at no point is the program making DECISIONS without human input.
I should also take some time to talk about the input delay. You've probably all run into aimbotters in FPS games. Players spawn in, the aimbotter whips around and headshots them, rotates back around hits someone else instantly. That's possible because those games don't have input limits or delays. Aside from hardware limitations, those games can often accept things like direct location commands, more than three buttons pressed at the same time, or- at least it used to be- multiple ingame options activated at once.
Star Trek Online ignores software level keyboard input commands that originate from outside the game, unless those commands are on the keyboard channel. This was a change made during December 2013 when it became apparent that many users were using scripts to spam the F key in order to search the snowball piles of the winter wonderland for loot. Removing that option meant that any scripts which would run 'in the background' became inoperable.
After that change it was still possible to automate that keypress, but the Star Trek Online window had to be open, it had to be in focus, and the person using the keyboard couldn't be doing anything else. (or else it would start pressing F in whatever window was active).
The input delay compounds the difficulty of using external actors to gain an unfair advantage. Because STO only accepts so many keypresses at once, and because it only allows one power to be activated from a keypress, and a second power to be queued for activation a certain number of seconds after the first power, there is no way to use third party hardware or software to activate all powers simultaneously, faster than humans can, or otherwise abuse the system for unfair advantage.
Really, the game is quite robust and resistant to that sort of thing- so even though players using gaming keyboards or mice are floating around out there, they aren't gaining any sort of advantage aside from not having to constantly mash spacebar.
They aren't activating powers faster than other players.
They aren't activating powers in excess of the usual limit.
Okay? So just remember when you guys are getting butthurt about keyboard macros or gaming keyboards, to keep these limitations and the dividing line in mind. Don't be like TSI with the whole 'script to cycle cloak, buffs for perfect alpha without player input' thing from a few years ago. Remember that? That's completely against the EULA.
But a script that mashes spacebar? A program that lets you use voice commands to activate powers? That's fine.
Native support means the developer created the interface for the keyboards macro functionality and LCD screen. Atari would be the developer at the time in this case. Nothing has ever been changed from it, if you fresh install sto and it detects a g series keyboard it will prompt you to install the native software/profile. People need to understand the difference between a keybind, a macro, and a bot, and what the EULA is referring to, is botting.
Native support means the developer created the interface for the keyboards macro functionality and LCD screen. Atari would be the developer at the time in this case. Nothing has ever been changed from it, if you fresh install sto and it detects a g series keyboard it will prompt you to install the native software/profile. People need to understand the difference between a keybind, a macro, and a bot, and what the EULA is referring to, is botting.
Mouse and Keyboard key binding software is 100% ok. "...by which the Service may be played automatically without human input." This covers BOTS... not keybinds. You can't program something or use a program that reacts to the game by itself. Reacting to things in the game and pushing a button however is fine. Even if that button activates 3-4 commands... its in no way a violation of anything.
And before anyone says I'm not reading that right... understand the Cryptics own system allows for one key push to activate multiple items. In fact its a pretty good system... I have never used anything but there system. However someone using a Gaming Device Software or even a Third part y key pushing software are NOT breaking the EULA. The only people that are in violation would be people creating BOT software. Its simple if you can walk away from your computer and your toon keeps on playing... your in violation of the EULA... OR if you create a software that plays with the games code or in someway interferes with the net commands at any point to or from your client.
This comes up in every MMO ever made... and I have never heard of ANY MMO company ever saying there EULA covered keybinds. Quite the opposite... those that can in general get deals with Gaming Device Companies to produce custom hardware... and at the very least they work with those companies to create "profiles" ect for those softwares. I could be wrong but I think even Cryptic at one time helped create a Profile for Razor... but I could be thinking of Bioware.
No, it doesn't. It allows a single key push to activate a single item. That there is an array of items that it can activate is not the same as activating multiple items. If you wish to activate more than one item from that array of items, you need to push the key again. There is no automation involved - each item activated - requires human input. A macro does not require human input to trigger each item in the macro. It allows one to play the service automatically without input...is it a complete bot? No, but then again - it states it includes but is not limited to bots.
Keybind Array: My mouse button5 triggers X with one push, Y with the second push, and Z with the third push. Human input all the way.
Macro: My mouse button5 triggers X, Y, and Z with one push. Automation.
It's very trippy the way they've written it. Cause most things I've read out there from other games - are specific about bots and forms of automation. What they've got there though? It's just a trip.
Know the funniest thing, imho, about that is though? PWE has this game Swordsman, right? They've got a thing in it called Self Cultivation. It's a bot. Lol, they've actually got a bot in their own game.
So basically their EULA says you cannot play the game.
I don't recall anything like that EULA with what Cryptic/Atari had...they had the standard MMO sort of thing, where just like you said - nobody would think twice about using a programmable keyboard or mouse.
The way that line's written there though...
You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.
Somebody having a better video card than somebody else is using hardware that gives them an advantage...has that better video card been authorized by PWE to be used?
It's just one of the most mind boggling things I've read in a EULA, and there are some /facepalm things out there...but yeah, don't bot...but play our game with a bot...our bot...cause our bot's the best bot ever and the players love it!
But the EULA says what it says...
...do I think it needs to be updated? Yeah, cause there have been all sorts of discussions on the forums going back to the beta where folks have asked for help programming a keyboard or mouse without the threads being locked/deleted/etc.
I went out and checked several other games out there - standard MMO fare...nothing goofy like what PWE's got there.
And I saw the other stuff after posting this...doesn't matter what Atari had, doesn't matter that the profiles were there, doesn't matter if there was countless discussion in the past, doesn't matter if devs, CMs, GMs, et all have said it's okay...it's that silly EULA that PWE's got there and the way they word it.
edit: It really is a trip if you hit up the EULA/TOU/TOS/etc for other MMOs - so many of them when it gets into that stuff all say the exact same thing (literally, where you look at the screen and try to remember which game you were looking at - cause it's exactly the same)...standard MMO fare. I can't recall ever seeing something about stuff like that worded the way PWE did there. And like I said, it's really a trip when you consider their game Swordsman.
No, it doesn't. It allows a single key push to activate a single item.
YES it 100% DOES. What you are referring to is INPUT lag on purpose and effects external programs as well. (unless they are using EULA breaking code that gets around the way the game accepts commands) as illcadia detailed that "work around" way of doing things was fixed in a patch when snowballs where being exploited.
There are commands that don't respect this Cryptic engine input method Things like Distribute shields ect.
This WILL Activate ALL 4 of these commands... it simply depends what you put in those trey slots. No matter what it will activate distribute and the first skill... the ONLY skills that will need to be ordered are Bridge officer skills. (thats right you can activate NON bridge officer skills at the same time) put brace for impact in there for instance and it will go off with a bridge officer skill with one push. You can also slot weapons in those spots and have complete weapon control if you want to say fire one torp and leave the other unused unless you activate another key.
The Single ITEM rule applies to Bridge officer skills (perhaps a few others I never tested every console ect I can't think of a good reason to bind them together anyway lol)... and if you create a macro in an external program THE EXACT same order of firing will happen. If you tell your logitech/razor or auto hotkey to push 1 2 3 all at once (assuming those keys activate the same tray stuff) they will in fact lag the exact same way. You will still have to push the key 3 times if you slot 3 bridge officer skills there.
"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."
It really isn't as unclear as it looks. Its simply legal babble to cover off outlying situations. Cause legal folks like to word things that can cover off everything so there clients can use them in a broad way if they choose.
When they say including but "not limited" to third party... they are saying if you have a BOT account doing something FOR you, your still guilty. Cause farmers love to run accounts that gain advantage for there "legit" accounts. Its also why they use the word Influence. So for instance... say you see a Gold farming bot running the same thing over and over and over... and decide to tag a long and benifit by just being present ect... your in violation. (cause in other games farmers have done just that with the bot getting booted but all the gains from the "legit" account being handed off and Sold ect)
It also explains the wording at the end where they say Bots or any other method by which the service may be played without input. They are saying teaming with a bot toon makes both accounts libel. So I can't dual box and use a BOT on my F2P account I don't care about and profit on another account... that I was controlling.
The wording allows them to make peoples accounts guilty by association. For instance if they found one bot and where 100% sure it was a bot and realized it did 100 runs of one things with X player. They don't have to prove that that player was also a bot... the EULA says that person was using "other method by which the Service may be played automatically ".
YES it 100% DOES. What you are referring to is INPUT lag on purpose and effects external programs as well. (unless they are using EULA breaking code that gets around the way the game accepts commands) as illcadia detailed that "work around" way of doing things was fixed in a patch when snowballs where being exploited.
There are commands that don't respect this Cryptic engine input method Things like Distribute shields ect.
This WILL Activate ALL 4 of these commands... it simply depends what you put in those trey slots. No matter what it will activate distribute and the first skill... the ONLY skills that will need to be ordered are Bridge officer skills. (thats right you can activate NON bridge officer skills at the same time) put brace for impact in there for instance and it will go off with a bridge officer skill with one push. You can also slot weapons in those spots and have complete weapon control if you want to say fire one torp and leave the other unused unless you activate another key.
The Single ITEM rule applies to Bridge officer skills... and if you create a macro in an external program THE EXACT same order of firing will happen. If you tell your logitech/razor or auto hotkey to push 1 2 3 all at once (assuming those keys activate the same tray stuff) they will in fact lag the exact same way. You will still have to push the key 3 times if you slot 3 bridge officer skills there.
In the three plus years I've played this game, it has never worked that way. I just logged in to check it again...and...no, it doesn't do that. Here, I'll drop this one out to replace my spacebar one.
Where I've got EPtA in 0, EPtS in 1, I'll drop BFI in 2, Scan in 3, and Scattering in 4.
So I fly in to range of a mob and...
I push the spacebar. It fires the weapons.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scattering.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scan.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers BFI.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers EPtS.
Course, I fly away and let the CDs reset to do it again and it does this.
I push the spacebar. It fires the weapons and triggers Scattering.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scan.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. Nothing happens.
I push the spacebar again. Nothing happens.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers BFI.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers EPtS.
Let me wait out the CDs and do this again. I'll replace EPtA with the Hazari Shield Drone console.
Interesting, while in combat - Distribute Shields can trigger at the same time as something else. While not in combat, it will not trigger with anything else. Basically...
If I wait for the enemy to shoot me first, putting me in combat...that first push will do Weapons, Scattering, and Distribute. If I push first, then the Distribute doesn't happen until the second or third push. I let them attack me three times and attacked them three times, each time it was the same...they attack, in combat, push, all three...I attack, that push, doesn't do Distribute.
Each ability though, whether BOFF, Captain, or Console required an individual push.
Another interesting thing would be in going to attack, if I hold down the spacebar...it only does the weapons and doesn't do the Scattering - which may have been what happened on the first test - the duration that I tapped the spacebar. And wow, yeah, I'd forgotten how much spamming the spacebar with Fire_All could TRIBBLE up weapons when on autofire. All four torps flashing...doing nothing...flashing...doing nothing...I stop spamming that spacebar...and off they fire.
I honestly never knew that the weapons could trigger at the same time as the first ability - the only thing I've paired like that is EPtX/EPtY with weapons and shiield distro. And it's odd that Distribute will trigger at the same time as that first press if already in combat but not if that press puts you in combat.
But yeah, each ability though - BOFF/Captain/Console required a distinct keypress to activate it. It wouldn't trigger multiples...outside of what could happen with weapons/distribute.
Perhaps it has something to do with the amount of stuff you have tried to bind or something Virus.
I don't know what to tell you I have no issues binding Distribute shields with anything and it goes off.
Brace for impact... I don't know I have had no issues... but then when I bind it I bind it with one other thing not 10. Battaries I know bind just fine with 1-2 things.
I think it comes down to how much stuff you put on one bind there... but I could be wrong.
For sure you shouldn't have any issues having fire all + distribute work 2 for one.
Honestly for the past 3 years at least I never have more then 2 things on one key anyway and 95% of the time the 2 things are same copies of the same skill so I don't expect them to go off together.
Regardless an external program runs into the exact same thing... cause its Cryptics input system that does the lag thing, it isn't forced on just the Cryptic Keybind system. Having a Naga Push 1,2,3,4,5,6 or whatever will do the exact same thing with things going off one at a time in no real order.
EDIT... I also in general if I am looking for an advantage and don't care about my keyboard that much... if you bind all your weapons to more then one key... like say space for 4 DHC... and e key or something for your rear. By smacking the heck out of the buttons in the right order you can get a better weapon sync then auto firing. As stupid as that is. Cryptic system is odd... but ya pressing it yourself... binding it in game or binding it outside of the game really is no advantage. Nor against the EULA. The EULA will cover pure bot stuff... and the "bot lite" stuff like screen watch junk.
Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other third-party software designed to modify, enhance, or otherwise alter the Service, the Game Client or the Game experience without the express written consent of Funcom.
use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, modifications (mods) or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience;
use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of ******** experience;
Using mods, hacks and cheats can give players an unfair advantage over others. To help ensure a level and fair playing environment for the community and for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:
You may not use any of your own software or third-party software to modify the Service content to change game play.
You may not use the intellectual property rights contained in the Game Content owned by EA or its licensors or the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.
You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our System.
You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.
You may not use your or third-party software to rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in such a way as to use the Service to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or performed in the Service.
You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".
Conduct prohibited shall include, without limitation, arranging, making or accepting in-Game transfers of items to a character without adequate in-Game consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in the transferee character's Account and having the effect of increasing its value for purposes of an out-of-game Account sale.
FFS STFU with your whining already they are trying to address certain issues and are taking baby steps at fixing them, which is somthing sicne they ignored us for 5 plus years honestly, at this point Lester gonna grab the bull by the horns and keep pushing the agenda and never surrender all you are doing is just piling on... Are being ignored for five years by them is infuriating so is five years of hearing people ***** nag Moan and complain.. After a while I think some of us in here just complain just to see our complaints on paper I don't think it would matter if they totally separated PVP from the game right now and started from scratch from the ground up because some just love to complain so much it wouldn't stop it like a mob mentality.. So here is the obvious question you say game is dead. Gone. Done for. Ended. Over. Then one has to say why are you still here? FFS 2 days without all the %$%$%^%in bytching ...christ if i want to hear this much bytchn i would have stayed married
Do you honestly think doing baby steps will do something? It took them half an year to half-fix stuff that was game breaking, meanwhile twice the amount of equally overpowered stuff came out.
Baby steps, bah they went through the no comeback point already. Get some freaking better games and a grammar book, it looks like you can't afford them to see how messed up STO is.
But first a grammar book with a good english teacher, that's one hell of a childish syntax right there.
what the hell happened to this thread? its gone from why the game is dead to talking about keybinds...lol
This isnt the MMO your Looking for....Move Along xD
Wildweasal made a silly arguement....and no sense....silly people defending silly dev's, I cant wait to see the faces of people defending STO and cryptic in summer this year......wait and see....move along....
Still not banned for circumventing my main account ban.....
I don't like dino players like yourself that quit the game and then spend their free time logging into the forums **** talking all the time
My involvement in the forum or time spent in-game or elsewhere is none of your business. This is not your private home.
Actually quite a number of people that are participating in this thread are former players or have significantly reduced their playtime. Doesn't mean they aren't allowed to speak up.
And actually it is predominantly you that is - how did you say so eloquently? - **** talking; belittling and mocking past player driven initiatives.
If you feel entitled to mock and and badmouth people that don't even play the game any longer, then others have the right to object. If you can't deal with it, then don't dish out in the first place. This ain't no place for the timid.
The point where you can take a newby, show him/her the ropes while both have fun pewing are over, it is as simple as that. We have maintained restricted channels, private matches, run community events, tournies, bootcamp, adopted rules, you name it.
Cryptic killed it, our feedback was loud and clear all the way to the end.
An /end-thread worthy reply imo.
The thread starter suggested to get some legwork going. All the suggestions here in this thread how to improve the state of PvP, were suggested umpteen times in the past. The PvP community has been there, done that. All the people who took initiative feel spent now. They've tried their best. You can't blame them. You'd be heartless if you do.
One has to face reality: Cryptic totalled PvP. And it is only Cryptic that can fix it. It wasn't the players fault.
You can't force a player to play PvP when it's not fun for them.
What needs to happen is a serious commitment on behalf of Cryptic to completly revamp PvP. And not just lip service on paper. Asking Cryptic for concessions that could contradict their business model won't work.
Most people in my fleet (and some other pvp fleets) stopped playing because of lack of premades, and not because of lack of pugs. Think about it: Todays premade-free environment would be the perfect pug hunting ground for any organized group. Yet, there are no takers.
you claim it was teamwork in the past, but ignore how powerful team healing was that rendered most all build pointless UNTIL the nukes were chained on the target
Are you blaming me for your past bad builds?!
And the rest of post pretty much consists of mindless bashing, that we had no skill and sucked etc... If such fantasies give you comfort, then so be it. Just don't expect us to accept your wet-dreams as true. :P
If you feel the desire to fight the good fight, then all power to you! Who knows, one day PvP may bounce back, cross fingers.
In another thread I've just read an interesting proposal: the ability to spec grind through gateway. If I could build spec while riding the subway, now that would be something...
Comments
No offense to you here at all Virus. It makes me laugh when people assume the EULA means you can't use a Gaming mouse or Keyboard.
By all means go through this http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms and point out where it states Buying something like a Razor Naga ect is in anyway something that isn't allowed.
Again no offense Virus... but there simply isn't anything in the EULA that says you can't use mouse or keyboard software... and frankly there isn't even anything in there about using marco programs.
What it says is you can't use any programs to MODIFY the game/net code to gain advantage. It doesn't say you can't have a program input a standard key press for you... because you 100% can. It is not against the EULA in anyway.
Why do we care about any of this anyway really....
"l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;"
When Cryptic makes in pretty much impossible for anyone that played this game for more then 20 min to not be in violation of this one right here. You all deserve to be banned. Cause this game is one big Design flaw. lmao
I guess it is the usual aging process that is going to happen to everyone of us here in future, it's nothing to worry about or to get embarassed
Based on what i have seen from your posting history over the years the complexity and versatility of your analyses, argumentations and calculations related to game mechanics have never dropped in any subject from my persepctive at least.
You're still playing in your own league. There are only a few individuals in here who could be a patch on you but your modest nature and your outstanding and entertaining forum sigs surpassing any caricatures with respect to expressiveness and ridicule distinguish yourself additionally.
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Most bodily motion, including the motion of your hands, is being coordinated by optical cognition. And that also includes pressing keyboard buttons as a reaction to visual stimuli. Just saying.
In Star Trek Online, reducing "skill" to mere hand-eye coordination would be inadequate. This ain't Quake or Unreal Tournament. This game is more complex than that. If it was only about hand-eye twitch reaction, then the most successful sto players would be the 13 year olds. The majority of the players regarded as succesful PvP participants are in their early twenties to mid-thirties though.
I can only speak for TRH/IC (since these were the fleet I was in), but all good pvp players that came out of their "school", in the beginning learned the ropes by playing what you would call "manually", without advanced keybinds. Because it stimulated the sense for timing and buff reading, layed the groundwork for "combat awareness". And later, when felt to have tapped the full potential of the default keybind layout, some took the next logical step by customizing and further optimizing their keybinds. What that is supposed to have to do with lack of skill, is beyond me. Seriously, what's up with the dismissivenes?
What you might be thinking of are perhaps the morons who are binding all their powers to the spacebar or something. But in a tough match, those guys are usually the first ones hanging on the ropes. Spacebar spammers had no place in any proper pvp fleet premade anyway.
Oh and by the way, it's not my fault when you use term keybinds wrongly. When it comes to technicals terms like this, you need to be adequately precise, otherwise you come across unaware.
Your imagination must be working overtime to interpret my statement in such warped ways. It was you who began to slander and blame the player community, belittling their past attempts to make things better. I was merely expressing criticism directed at Cryptic, in a very reasonable manner, that the developer is ultimately responsible for this games current state. And I bet I am not the only one who shares that opinion.
Actually, I do not understand where your aversions for past player driven initiatives come from. Is it that you somehow feel wronged by certain people? What is really the source of your deep-seated anger?
And I did not say "folks were more skilled". Stop making things up. Skilled players come and go. You asked me "can there be skillful players in the t6 era?" and I replied: "Of course there are skillful players in the T6 era. New talent and skill did emerge all the time and is still emerging. That won't change."
How you can consider me praising the accomplishments of other folks (who mostly were never my fleetmates) to be ego-stroking, is beyond me. When I laud Hilbert for his contributions for the community, doesn't mean I take credit for him. :rolleyes:
I always give credit where credit is due. Even if it means I have to give credit to a person I personally dislike and/or had serious conflicts with. Judging by your long history of statements I don't think you can claim the same.
On the contrary, you seem to have a pathological urge to discredit other peoples skills. "Discredit his skill" That's your own words.
What's up with that? Why do you want to discredit them anyway? Seriously, what for? Does it make you feel better or something?
Other than praising your own fleetmates / friends, I have rarely seen you saying something positive about other players in the community.
Most people you're dismissing aren't playing the game nor reading the forum any longer. You are exploiting their absence by talking big. I don't know man, I just find that a bit sleazy. Not sure, but I think I saw you in the queues since 2012. You had plenty time to settle any score with the people you disliked, to settle things on the battlefield. Do you harbour bitter feelings because things weren't going the way you wanted? And now when they are gone, you are claming high ground?
Because that's how you sound like.
In your own way, you've been one of the most skillful people I've met in STO.
And when it came to forum signatures, no one could ever hold a candle to you.
That has to be respected.
LOL Number one sto forum sig praise
hey is that you Mini?
It might be mini, talon or even beameddown maybe who knows. One thing is clear: It's definitely somebody who's urgently seeking for attention, acceptance and public worship inside the community with the help of alts in an extinguishing sub-forum of a mmo game being in the act of its decline
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Can you provide some links? I'd like to watch them.
Say the guy that doesn't play this game anymore yet comes back to participate in it's QQ rage. LOL
Wheeeee!
But seriously, I couldn't not use keybinds, especially with vapers around. I'm already functioning at a 400 ms handicap compared to the rest of you XD.
That's as far as I got. Perhaps if you broke your posts up it would be easier to follow.
The Ghosts you are talking about... most of us haven't went all that far away. I bet you hank has a few 60s even if he hasn't touched the game in a few months. We would all be willing to comeback/play more if CRYPTIC Showed they gave a toss about PvP.
I'm sorry but you guys discussing ways for players to work around 20 layers of Cryptic Cheese sauce is pointless.
It has all been tried. Tournaments with all sorts of different rule sets... Lethal lottos... leagues... channels... outside pug style match balancing tools... new player initiatives (and not just boot camp)... Fleet lists with recruitment contacts. You name it its been tried more then once in the last 5 years.
The extent of support shown from Cryptic for any of them... A few guest blogs, and a nice shiny title.
I don't want to shoot you or anyone else down for wanting to come up with some new fancy idea... the simple fact is however you WILL fail. Period full stop.
This games PvP can't be saved by the players... it wasn't the players that destroyed it... Can it be saved at all ? yes of course, but not by anyone posting here.
Right now there are only TWO people in the entire world that can save STO PvP...
1) is Geko... that's right, the only way it gets saved is if GEKO decides there is value in fixing it.
or
2) Gekos Boss... who could fire him. Then replace him with someone who would see value in it.
23. Official Service and Beta Testing
23.1The Games are designed for play only as offered through our Service. You agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which the game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the games, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by these Terms and the applicable EULA. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You do not have ownership of and may not sell, transfer, trade or auction any Accounts, characters, items, coin, Zen or Proprietary Materials, nor may you assist others in doing so, except as expressly authorized by us. We do not recognize any transfers occurring outside of the Service of anything related to the Service.
Exactly right Virus.
Mouse and Keyboard key binding software is 100% ok. "...by which the Service may be played automatically without human input." This covers BOTS... not keybinds. You can't program something or use a program that reacts to the game by itself. Reacting to things in the game and pushing a button however is fine. Even if that button activates 3-4 commands... its in no way a violation of anything.
And before anyone says I'm not reading that right... understand the Cryptics own system allows for one key push to activate multiple items. In fact its a pretty good system... I have never used anything but there system. However someone using a Gaming Device Software or even a Third part y key pushing software are NOT breaking the EULA. The only people that are in violation would be people creating BOT software. Its simple if you can walk away from your computer and your toon keeps on playing... your in violation of the EULA... OR if you create a software that plays with the games code or in someway interferes with the net commands at any point to or from your client.
This comes up in every MMO ever made... and I have never heard of ANY MMO company ever saying there EULA covered keybinds. Quite the opposite... those that can in general get deals with Gaming Device Companies to produce custom hardware... and at the very least they work with those companies to create "profiles" ect for those softwares. I could be wrong but I think even Cryptic at one time helped create a Profile for Razor... but I could be thinking of Bioware.
I've discussed to death this with both devs, community representatives, and done a whole load of research on it.
What it comes down to, or at least what Cryptic enforces based on the EULA, is this:
If the hardware or software you are using can make DECISIONS without player input, then it is prohibited and you are in violation of the EULA if you have that sort of thing.
A keyboard macro that pushes, say, Shift 4, ctrl 3, and the number 5 whenever you hit spacebar- that's okay. It is not performance enhancing, and it is supported within the game itself (but you can also use third party programs).
A gaming keyboard which you can program so that you hit, say, capslock, and it transmits the pressing spacebar repeatedly- that's totally acceptable. That's nothing that a player couldn't otherwise do, such as by pressing space bar repeatedly.
Maybe you don't have a gaming keyboard. Maybe you write a .bat file script to take control of your keyboard and press spacebar releatedly, or push buttons in a sequence. Keeping in mind that STO has a keyboard input limit, this grants no advantage but reducing the chances of carpal tunnel syndrome- because everything happening can be done by a player mashing keys.
HOWEVER, the moment you make, say, a script that detects a specific icon on your ship status (such as subnuke), and then pauses all key-presses and sends the keypress to activate science team, confirms activation, then returns control to the player... then we have a problem.
There a lots of physically disabled players who use accessories or automation to allow them to play the game. Cycling boff powers, or using a speech to text program to let you activate your powers with voice commands- that's all totally fine. Because at no point is the program making DECISIONS without human input.
I should also take some time to talk about the input delay. You've probably all run into aimbotters in FPS games. Players spawn in, the aimbotter whips around and headshots them, rotates back around hits someone else instantly. That's possible because those games don't have input limits or delays. Aside from hardware limitations, those games can often accept things like direct location commands, more than three buttons pressed at the same time, or- at least it used to be- multiple ingame options activated at once.
Star Trek Online ignores software level keyboard input commands that originate from outside the game, unless those commands are on the keyboard channel. This was a change made during December 2013 when it became apparent that many users were using scripts to spam the F key in order to search the snowball piles of the winter wonderland for loot. Removing that option meant that any scripts which would run 'in the background' became inoperable.
After that change it was still possible to automate that keypress, but the Star Trek Online window had to be open, it had to be in focus, and the person using the keyboard couldn't be doing anything else. (or else it would start pressing F in whatever window was active).
The input delay compounds the difficulty of using external actors to gain an unfair advantage. Because STO only accepts so many keypresses at once, and because it only allows one power to be activated from a keypress, and a second power to be queued for activation a certain number of seconds after the first power, there is no way to use third party hardware or software to activate all powers simultaneously, faster than humans can, or otherwise abuse the system for unfair advantage.
Really, the game is quite robust and resistant to that sort of thing- so even though players using gaming keyboards or mice are floating around out there, they aren't gaining any sort of advantage aside from not having to constantly mash spacebar.
They aren't activating powers faster than other players.
They aren't activating powers in excess of the usual limit.
Okay? So just remember when you guys are getting butthurt about keyboard macros or gaming keyboards, to keep these limitations and the dividing line in mind. Don't be like TSI with the whole 'script to cycle cloak, buffs for perfect alpha without player input' thing from a few years ago. Remember that? That's completely against the EULA.
But a script that mashes spacebar? A program that lets you use voice commands to activate powers? That's fine.
Native support means the developer created the interface for the keyboards macro functionality and LCD screen. Atari would be the developer at the time in this case. Nothing has ever been changed from it, if you fresh install sto and it detects a g series keyboard it will prompt you to install the native software/profile. People need to understand the difference between a keybind, a macro, and a bot, and what the EULA is referring to, is botting.
Exactly this.
No, it doesn't. It allows a single key push to activate a single item. That there is an array of items that it can activate is not the same as activating multiple items. If you wish to activate more than one item from that array of items, you need to push the key again. There is no automation involved - each item activated - requires human input. A macro does not require human input to trigger each item in the macro. It allows one to play the service automatically without input...is it a complete bot? No, but then again - it states it includes but is not limited to bots.
Keybind Array: My mouse button5 triggers X with one push, Y with the second push, and Z with the third push. Human input all the way.
Macro: My mouse button5 triggers X, Y, and Z with one push. Automation.
It's very trippy the way they've written it. Cause most things I've read out there from other games - are specific about bots and forms of automation. What they've got there though? It's just a trip.
Know the funniest thing, imho, about that is though? PWE has this game Swordsman, right? They've got a thing in it called Self Cultivation. It's a bot. Lol, they've actually got a bot in their own game.
http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1105/self-cultivation-system-guide
So basically their EULA says you cannot play the game.
I don't recall anything like that EULA with what Cryptic/Atari had...they had the standard MMO sort of thing, where just like you said - nobody would think twice about using a programmable keyboard or mouse.
The way that line's written there though...
You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of bots and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.
Somebody having a better video card than somebody else is using hardware that gives them an advantage...has that better video card been authorized by PWE to be used?
It's just one of the most mind boggling things I've read in a EULA, and there are some /facepalm things out there...but yeah, don't bot...but play our game with a bot...our bot...cause our bot's the best bot ever and the players love it!
But the EULA says what it says...
...do I think it needs to be updated? Yeah, cause there have been all sorts of discussions on the forums going back to the beta where folks have asked for help programming a keyboard or mouse without the threads being locked/deleted/etc.
I went out and checked several other games out there - standard MMO fare...nothing goofy like what PWE's got there.
And I saw the other stuff after posting this...doesn't matter what Atari had, doesn't matter that the profiles were there, doesn't matter if there was countless discussion in the past, doesn't matter if devs, CMs, GMs, et all have said it's okay...it's that silly EULA that PWE's got there and the way they word it.
edit: It really is a trip if you hit up the EULA/TOU/TOS/etc for other MMOs - so many of them when it gets into that stuff all say the exact same thing (literally, where you look at the screen and try to remember which game you were looking at - cause it's exactly the same)...standard MMO fare. I can't recall ever seeing something about stuff like that worded the way PWE did there. And like I said, it's really a trip when you consider their game Swordsman.
YES it 100% DOES. What you are referring to is INPUT lag on purpose and effects external programs as well. (unless they are using EULA breaking code that gets around the way the game accepts commands) as illcadia detailed that "work around" way of doing things was fixed in a patch when snowballs where being exploited.
There are commands that don't respect this Cryptic engine input method Things like Distribute shields ect.
/Bind space "+power_exec Distribute_Shields $$ +trayexec 0 0 $$ +Trayexec 0 1 $$ +Trayexec 0 2"
This WILL Activate ALL 4 of these commands... it simply depends what you put in those trey slots. No matter what it will activate distribute and the first skill... the ONLY skills that will need to be ordered are Bridge officer skills. (thats right you can activate NON bridge officer skills at the same time) put brace for impact in there for instance and it will go off with a bridge officer skill with one push. You can also slot weapons in those spots and have complete weapon control if you want to say fire one torp and leave the other unused unless you activate another key.
The Single ITEM rule applies to Bridge officer skills (perhaps a few others I never tested every console ect I can't think of a good reason to bind them together anyway lol)... and if you create a macro in an external program THE EXACT same order of firing will happen. If you tell your logitech/razor or auto hotkey to push 1 2 3 all at once (assuming those keys activate the same tray stuff) they will in fact lag the exact same way. You will still have to push the key 3 times if you slot 3 bridge officer skills there.
It really isn't as unclear as it looks. Its simply legal babble to cover off outlying situations. Cause legal folks like to word things that can cover off everything so there clients can use them in a broad way if they choose.
When they say including but "not limited" to third party... they are saying if you have a BOT account doing something FOR you, your still guilty. Cause farmers love to run accounts that gain advantage for there "legit" accounts. Its also why they use the word Influence. So for instance... say you see a Gold farming bot running the same thing over and over and over... and decide to tag a long and benifit by just being present ect... your in violation. (cause in other games farmers have done just that with the bot getting booted but all the gains from the "legit" account being handed off and Sold ect)
It also explains the wording at the end where they say Bots or any other method by which the service may be played without input. They are saying teaming with a bot toon makes both accounts libel. So I can't dual box and use a BOT on my F2P account I don't care about and profit on another account... that I was controlling.
The wording allows them to make peoples accounts guilty by association. For instance if they found one bot and where 100% sure it was a bot and realized it did 100 runs of one things with X player. They don't have to prove that that player was also a bot... the EULA says that person was using "other method by which the Service may be played automatically ".
In the three plus years I've played this game, it has never worked that way. I just logged in to check it again...and...no, it doesn't do that. Here, I'll drop this one out to replace my spacebar one.
/bind space "GenSendMessage HUD_Root FireAll $$ +power_exec Distribute Shields $$ +TrayExecByTray 9 0 $$ +TrayExecByTray 9 1 $$ +TrayExecByTray 9 2 $$ +TrayExecByTray 9 3 $$ +TrayExecByTray 9 4"
Where I've got EPtA in 0, EPtS in 1, I'll drop BFI in 2, Scan in 3, and Scattering in 4.
So I fly in to range of a mob and...
I push the spacebar. It fires the weapons.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scattering.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scan.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers BFI.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers EPtS.
Course, I fly away and let the CDs reset to do it again and it does this.
I push the spacebar. It fires the weapons and triggers Scattering.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Scan.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. Nothing happens.
I push the spacebar again. Nothing happens.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers BFI.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers Distribute Shields.
I push the spacebar again. It triggers EPtS.
Let me wait out the CDs and do this again. I'll replace EPtA with the Hazari Shield Drone console.
Interesting, while in combat - Distribute Shields can trigger at the same time as something else. While not in combat, it will not trigger with anything else. Basically...
Push Scattering, Push Scan, Push BFI, Push EPtS, Push Hazari, Push Distribute.
If I wait for the enemy to shoot me first, putting me in combat...that first push will do Weapons, Scattering, and Distribute. If I push first, then the Distribute doesn't happen until the second or third push. I let them attack me three times and attacked them three times, each time it was the same...they attack, in combat, push, all three...I attack, that push, doesn't do Distribute.
Each ability though, whether BOFF, Captain, or Console required an individual push.
Another interesting thing would be in going to attack, if I hold down the spacebar...it only does the weapons and doesn't do the Scattering - which may have been what happened on the first test - the duration that I tapped the spacebar. And wow, yeah, I'd forgotten how much spamming the spacebar with Fire_All could TRIBBLE up weapons when on autofire. All four torps flashing...doing nothing...flashing...doing nothing...I stop spamming that spacebar...and off they fire.
I honestly never knew that the weapons could trigger at the same time as the first ability - the only thing I've paired like that is EPtX/EPtY with weapons and shiield distro. And it's odd that Distribute will trigger at the same time as that first press if already in combat but not if that press puts you in combat.
But yeah, each ability though - BOFF/Captain/Console required a distinct keypress to activate it. It wouldn't trigger multiples...outside of what could happen with weapons/distribute.
I don't know what to tell you I have no issues binding Distribute shields with anything and it goes off.
Brace for impact... I don't know I have had no issues... but then when I bind it I bind it with one other thing not 10. Battaries I know bind just fine with 1-2 things.
I think it comes down to how much stuff you put on one bind there... but I could be wrong.
For sure you shouldn't have any issues having fire all + distribute work 2 for one.
Honestly for the past 3 years at least I never have more then 2 things on one key anyway and 95% of the time the 2 things are same copies of the same skill so I don't expect them to go off together.
Regardless an external program runs into the exact same thing... cause its Cryptics input system that does the lag thing, it isn't forced on just the Cryptic Keybind system. Having a Naga Push 1,2,3,4,5,6 or whatever will do the exact same thing with things going off one at a time in no real order.
EDIT... I also in general if I am looking for an advantage and don't care about my keyboard that much... if you bind all your weapons to more then one key... like say space for 4 DHC... and e key or something for your rear. By smacking the heck out of the buttons in the right order you can get a better weapon sync then auto firing. As stupid as that is. Cryptic system is odd... but ya pressing it yourself... binding it in game or binding it outside of the game really is no advantage. Nor against the EULA. The EULA will cover pure bot stuff... and the "bot lite" stuff like screen watch junk.
http://www.thesecretworld.com/corporate/tos/nonEU/english
Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other third-party software designed to modify, enhance, or otherwise alter the Service, the Game Client or the Game experience without the express written consent of Funcom.
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/legal/terms-of-use/
use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, modifications (mods) or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience;
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html
use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of ******** experience;
Course then...well, SWTOR's got to be all...
http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct
Mod, Hack and Cheat Prohibitions
Using mods, hacks and cheats can give players an unfair advantage over others. To help ensure a level and fair playing environment for the community and for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:
You may not use any of your own software or third-party software to modify the Service content to change game play.
You may not use the intellectual property rights contained in the Game Content owned by EA or its licensors or the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.
You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our System.
You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.
You may not use your or third-party software to rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in such a way as to use the Service to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or performed in the Service.
You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".
Conduct prohibited shall include, without limitation, arranging, making or accepting in-Game transfers of items to a character without adequate in-Game consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in the transferee character's Account and having the effect of increasing its value for purposes of an out-of-game Account sale.
Do you honestly think doing baby steps will do something? It took them half an year to half-fix stuff that was game breaking, meanwhile twice the amount of equally overpowered stuff came out.
Baby steps, bah they went through the no comeback point already. Get some freaking better games and a grammar book, it looks like you can't afford them to see how messed up STO is.
But first a grammar book with a good english teacher, that's one hell of a childish syntax right there.
This isnt the MMO your Looking for....Move Along xD
Wildweasal made a silly arguement....and no sense....silly people defending silly dev's, I cant wait to see the faces of people defending STO and cryptic in summer this year......wait and see....move along....
Still not banned for circumventing my main account ban.....
It's the Bob & Weave thread.
Speaking of which, anybody notice their shield caps were a bit higher after the patch than they had been before the patch that displayed lower?
I was always wondering how a nervous breakdown would look in writing.
I don't know man. Is it me drawing lunacy, or is lunacy drawing me?
It was you starting hostilities. Now it's you upping it up again, with profanities. I am merely defending.
My involvement in the forum or time spent in-game or elsewhere is none of your business. This is not your private home.
Actually quite a number of people that are participating in this thread are former players or have significantly reduced their playtime. Doesn't mean they aren't allowed to speak up.
And actually it is predominantly you that is - how did you say so eloquently? - **** talking; belittling and mocking past player driven initiatives.
If you feel entitled to mock and and badmouth people that don't even play the game any longer, then others have the right to object. If you can't deal with it, then don't dish out in the first place. This ain't no place for the timid.
I was merely saying pretty much the same as most people who replied on-topic to the thread starter.
And Havam very early in the thread summed it up pefectly:
An /end-thread worthy reply imo.
The thread starter suggested to get some legwork going. All the suggestions here in this thread how to improve the state of PvP, were suggested umpteen times in the past. The PvP community has been there, done that. All the people who took initiative feel spent now. They've tried their best. You can't blame them. You'd be heartless if you do.
One has to face reality: Cryptic totalled PvP. And it is only Cryptic that can fix it. It wasn't the players fault.
You can't force a player to play PvP when it's not fun for them.
What needs to happen is a serious commitment on behalf of Cryptic to completly revamp PvP. And not just lip service on paper. Asking Cryptic for concessions that could contradict their business model won't work.
Excuse me, but you are the only one whining in this thread.
Pug stomping is not a proper method to build an ego.
I mean, you can try, and some people certainly tried, but any good premade would rip that ego apart in no-time.
Our favourite pastime was premade pvp. If you don't take my word for it, then you might perhaps take other premades words for it.
Most people in my fleet (and some other pvp fleets) stopped playing because of lack of premades, and not because of lack of pugs. Think about it: Todays premade-free environment would be the perfect pug hunting ground for any organized group. Yet, there are no takers.
You're just mad bro, that is all. :cool:
Are you blaming me for your past bad builds?!
And the rest of post pretty much consists of mindless bashing, that we had no skill and sucked etc... If such fantasies give you comfort, then so be it. Just don't expect us to accept your wet-dreams as true. :P
In another thread I've just read an interesting proposal: the ability to spec grind through gateway. If I could build spec while riding the subway, now that would be something...
nope, havent logged into STO for weeks