many of us have time and time again suggested PVP scenarios that would likely draw others in such as epic fleet vs fleet matches etc...and would even allow them to bring in some PVP only relevant gear that could make them money....but alas it falls on deaf ears...because thats the game they dont want to make....
Its dead for a simple reason. Cryptic can't stop raining junk on the game.
With out fail they release something that is clearly not there to improve the game, its there to sell something. When X thing doesn't sell as well as they like it gets a BUFF... if they need money NOW NOW NOW, they are not above SUPER buffing something, and "Fixing" it 4-5 months down the line when they have something new to sell instead.
If that doesn't sound true to anyone just consider some of the most recent Sales related changes.
Today - Pilot and other Secondary specs becoming Primary specs and the idea of Sec/Pri going away... (translation: No one bought into Command like they where supposed to cause INTEL is BS... so this is an end way around to let people slot both Command And Intel if they like... or grind a few new points in pilot)
VM torp - It was stupid OP long enough, sell through is pretty much maxed. So it can be "fixed" now. Cause its not like they didn't hear the complaints the day it was released.
MK 14 weapons - Didn't sell all that well at first. A lot of people where happy with mk 13 if they bothered to upgrade at all. So Geko said... hey what if we break the item/DMG bonus ratio and make mk 14 Stupid powerful... Problem solved Upgrade to 14 or be <.
Ionic - Same story as VM torp
Anyway who cares anymore really (yes I get it where all here typing) Developers that have integrity and care about game design, shoot for something a little more artistic and better balance. Some even prescribe to the same Thinking as Geko... that fun games always have a small bit of inbalance in them. HOWEVER I think it should be clear that there is a point where that forced inbalance becomes obvious greed and turns off more people then it excites. (the type that get sucked in hunting for broken stuffs and bugs to exploit... start seeing through and realizing even the worst programmers couldn't possibly TRIBBLE up that often unless it was on purpose)
Sure some people are to slow to realize there "unique build" tricks... are not some super secret hidden mechanics/items/combos because the devs are "incompetent" or because they are just that good as players. Its because Cryptic konws exactly what they are doing... they break stuff on purpose, they release things "bugged" on purpose. Things tend to get fixed around the time the majority of people have found them. Things like the Bounty Hunter 3 piece bonus will get fixed when it catches on with the masses and makes Cryptic enough $.
Because this game is designed to sell power creep. PvP will always suffer from this model. You cannot have new shineys every 3-6 months that eclipse everything else in the game, then nerf the hell out of them when sales quota has been met/new powers are being released (with new ships that cost $$, obviously).
This game could have amazing pvp. Instead it has powercreep moving at the speed of light. Thankfully, the rumor mill + an older somethingaweful post seem to be coming true, and I'm sure this community will be the first in line to dance on cryptics grave.
Thankfully, the rumor mill + an older somethingaweful post seem to be coming true, and I'm sure this community will be the first in line to dance on cryptics grave.
First in line?.... we've started the queue already so we can watch cryptic dig their own grave....
If i were a dev at cryptic....I'd be handing in my notice...never mind waiting to be laid off...there are other oppurtunites out there...
which I know of because im starting a foundation/Honours degree in computer gaming programming...after seeing this mess ive decided i want to be able to make a difference...lol
IMHO, utter neglect by Cryptic had done more damage to PVP than any amount of broken mechanics, unbalanced elements, and introduction of power creep.
I can still remember the masses of Fed & KDF PVP even in the queues when STO launched. I can still remember being able to take my Lv5 Fed or KDF and PVP my way to the Lv40 cap without doing any PVE content outside of the tutorial; From Lt/Warrior to RAdm/BGen, PVP was roaring.
And Cryptic did nothing to fan the flames of PVP that was going back then. They pretty much left it to rot on the vine. Everything else afterwards was merely a kick to the dusty corpse on the side of the road as you walked by.
It's a terrible shame to let entire elements of your game collapse the way PVP did.
Edit: When you step back and look that Cryptic can't even do 2 factions right, much less 2.5, should it surprise anyone that PVP is dead and elements like Exploration Clusters removed, 2 phased Starbase 24 gone, Terrordome pulled?
Given that different folks PvP for different reasons, I wonder how many folks could get their fix if the NPCs were just to start complaining in zone...
That and the fact that to Cryptic, Beta is more of a platform to show off what's coming out, and less of a shake down before Live launch. So all those little teasers you can just tell will be either buged and not working, or bugged in the OP OMG everyone needs it way.
I'm in a happy place now. I'm enjoying my Dragonball XV, looking to try out Final Fantasy Realm Reborn in a couple months. And looking forward to some other space games coming out soon, and no not Star Citizen. Not in Elite Dangerous either.
So while I might come to the Bar to cry into my Beer, at least I know the sun will come out tomorrow.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I can tell you exactly why PvP is dead to me. Two main reasons, and they have very little to do with the Devs.
#1 Lack of Teamwork in PUGs
Seemed like everytime I played it was every man for himself while I was trying to help out the team. When the result of that is getting vaporized over and over, it gets un-fun really fast.
#2 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
If I wasn't getting vaporized through lack of teamwork, there was a lot of unsportsmanlike conduct to discourage me from having fun. Spawn-camping, etc.
Back then there weren't many people on the Fed side who'd have the attitude: "Hey, you're dying a lot. Let me help you figure out what you're doing wrong."
I appreciated the Community's efforts around the PvP Bootcamp... at least people were trying. But I never plugged into that, which I admit is my own fault. It didn't help I was already soured on PvP.
I don't mind getting slagged. Some of my best gaming times were playing Doom with my friends and getting slagged over and over. But it was a very different experience, and I was able to get a few kills in edgewise to keep me from getting too frustrated.
What would draw me into PvP besides Teamwork and Sportsmanship?
#1 Customizable Arenas/Matches
One of the things I liked about CoH PvP was the ability to fine-tune the matches to create variety. With STO, I would take that even further, like the ability to add hazards, collision damage, gravitational anomalies, level restrictions, etc.
#2 Monster Play
Why shouldn't I be able to play as a Tal Shiar agent or a Borg Cube in a PvP match to make things interesting? They wouldn't need to be full PvE factions. I might be interested in throwing down in a Jem'Hadar vs Breen fracas, if it were an option.
I think the Dev's have alot more to do to kill off PvP than players ever can...
The lack of Teamwork in pugs in STO do depends when players have no chemistry with each other, same is true with all other MMO games i've played... but there's another factors that for players not wanting teamwork or win a match... lack of incentive and motivation due to lack of any PvP rewards system, back in early 2011 when i played my first PvP matches i did care about teamwork and winning matches until Cryptic decided to make all PvP queue's into Cross Factions only mess, even though there was no real PvP reward system back then as it is now, i wanted to win for the pride of the KDF Community, but nowadayz with no KvF queue's i don't even care about winning or do any teamwork in my group especially teaming up with feds 90% of the time now, why? for me not only the matches are only Cross Factions, but like most other people there no bonus rewards for winning matches therefor many players don't care if they win or lose, the only thing that counts now for most players is just a good Kill/Death ratio of ships u've blown out of the skies, how much less deaths u have and/or even how much damage u deal... so again in the end there is no incentive or any motivation for winning especially if u get nothing from it.
While the Players do pull the trigger to kill the opponents it's the Dev' fault for creating the conditions for players to get Spawn Camped to begin with, in most other MMO's games their Dev's create Safe Zones to prevent players to get automatically killed, in STO there are no Safe Zones in any Maps, there's not even alternative Spawn Point where u can switch to... so without any Safe Zones, Spawn Points Relocations, or any real Spawn Point Defenses to protect players against Spawn Campers... and without these, this is why Spawn Camping is bad as it is in STO PvP.
Given that different folks PvP for different reasons, I wonder how many folks could get their fix if the NPCs were just to start complaining in zone...
I'd love that actually. Because I want to see the other players out in PVE land being utterly confused and clueless in what to do since NPCs are debuffing them with complaints. And many out there don't know what to do if even something simple like APB lands on them
edit: Okay, perhaps it would help to list what the abilities currently show at the Bridge Officer Trainer/Store (note it's on Ground, since you can't actually create the Pilot Specialization nor buy a Pilot BOFF - so keep that in mind for the obvious numbers that are out of place, damage/heal-type stuff)...
Attack Pattern Lambda I
Ensign
On Weapon Hit: -Acc, -Perception, Chance to Confuse
Self for 15 sec:
+15% Accuracy
+299 Perception
Foe on Weapon Hit:
-25% Accuracy for 5 sec
-299 Perception for 5 sec
20% chance: Confuse for 5 sec
Attack Pattern Lambda II
Lieutenant
On Weapon Hit: -Acc, -Perception, Chance to Confuse
Self for 15 sec:
+20% Accuracy
+373.8 Perception
Foe on Weapon Hit:
-32.4% Accuracy for 5 sec
-373.8 Perception for 5 sec
20% chance: Confuse for 5 sec
Deploy Countermeasures I
Ensign
PBAoE Destroy Targetable Torpedoes, Kinetic Immunity
To foes within 3.0 km:
Destroys Targetable Torpedoes and Mines
25% chance: Confuse for 4 sec (double chance vs. Fighters and Frigates)
to self: Immunity to Kinetic Damage for 4 sec
Deploy Countermeasures II
Lieutenant
PBAoE Destroy Targetable Torpedoes, Kinetic Immunity
To foes within 3.0 km:
Destroys Targetable Torpedoes and Mines
35% chance: Confuse for 6 sec (double chance vs. Fighters and Frigates)
to self: Immunity to Kinetic Damage for 6 sec
Lock Trajectory I
Ensign
Continue on Current Course, but Turn Freely
Inertia Rating set to Zero
+100% Flight Turn Rate
(Requires >50% Throttle to activate)
Lock Trajectory II
Lieutenant
Continue on Current Course, but Turn Freely
Inertia Rating set to Zero
+150% Flight Turn Rate
(Requires >50% Throttle to activate)
Pilot Team I
Ensign
Accuracy/Defense Buff, Immune to Movement Debuffs
+12% Accuracy for 10 sec
+12% Defense for 10 sec
+100 Resistance Rating to Movement Debuffs
Pilot Team II
Lieutenant
Accuracy/Defense Buff, Immune to Movement Debuffs
+16% Accuracy for 10 sec
+16% Defense for 10 sec
+300 Resistance Rating to Movement Debuffs
Clean Getaway I
Lieutenant
Rear-Facing Placate/Debuff, Speed Boost
All Foes in 90-degree Rear-Facing Cone, 5.0km Range:
Reset Aggro vs. Affected NPCs
Placate for 4 sec (Fragile)
-33.3% Flight Speed for 4 sec
To Self: +136.2% Flight Speed for 4 sec
Clean Getaway II
Lieutenant Commander
Rear-Facing Placate/Debuff, Speed Boost
All Foes in 90-degree Rear-Facing Cone, 5.0km Range:
Reset Aggro vs. Affected NPCs
Placate for 6 sec (Fragile)
-50% Flight Speed for 6 sec
To Self: +177.1% Flight Speed for 6 sec
Fly Her Apart I
Lieutenant
Speed Boost but Damage Self; Ambush on Expire
+25 - 100% Flight Speed (increases each sec)
-20.4 Hull Capacity per sec (3% of max)
On Expire: +2% All Damage Bonus per second Active
Fly Her Apart II
Lieutenant Commander
Speed Boost but Damage Self; Ambush on Expire
+50 - 200% Flight Speed (increases each sec)
-17 Hull Capacity per sec (2.5% of max)
On Expire: +2.5% All Damage Bonus per second Active
Hold Together I
Lieutenant
Self Hull Regen and Dmg Res Based on Throttle
+6.1 Hull Restored per sec (Based on Throttle)
+37 All Damage Resistance Rating (Based on Throttle)
At 100% Throttle: Remove one hazard debuff per sec
Hold Together II
Lieutenant Commander
Self Hull Regen and Dmg Res Based on Throttle
+7.9 Hull Restored per sec (Based on Throttle)
+48.1 All Damage Resistance Rating (Based on Throttle)
At 75% Throttle: Remove one hazard debuff per sec
Reinforcements Squadron I
Lieutenant
Summon Fighter Pets
Call in a squadron of four level 1 Reinforcement Fighters
Reinforcements Squadron II
Lieutenant Commander
Summon Fighter Pets
Call in a squadron of four level 1 Advanced Reinforcement Fighters
Coolant Ignition I
Lieutenant Commander
AOE Plasma Hazard Trail
Ejects Coolant Cloud that ignites after 10 sec
Before Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
-99% Flight Turn Rate
-75% Flight Speed
After Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
7.5 Plasma Damage (Ignores Shields) every sec
Coolant Ignition II
Commander
AOE Plasma Hazard Trail
Ejects Coolant Cloud that ignites after 10 sec
Before Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
-99% Flight Turn Rate
-85.7% Flight Speed
After Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
9.8 Plasma Damage (Ignores Shields) every sec
Form Up I
Lieutenant Commander
Teleport to Ally, Buff Both if Remain Close
Teleport to Target Ally
For up to 20sec, while within 5km of Target Ally:
Bonus +5 - 20% All Damage (based on pulse) to Self and Target Ally
Effect ends immediately if >5km from Target Ally
Form Up II
Commander
Teleport to Ally, Buff Both if Remain Close
Teleport to Target Ally
For up to 20sec, while within 5km of Target Ally:
Bonus +10 - 30% All Damage (based on pulse) to Self and Target Ally
Effect ends immediately if >5km from Target Ally
Reroute Reserves to Weapons I
Lieutenant Commander
Weapons Haste, but Drain from Engines
Set Weapon Power Drain to zero
20% Firing Cycle Haste for Energy Weapons
-10 Engine Power from Energy Weapon activation
Reroute Reserves to Weapons II
Commander
Weapons Haste, but Drain from Engines
Set Weapon Power Drain to zero
40% Firing Cycle Haste for Energy Weapons
-8 Engine Power from Energy Weapon activation
Subspace Boom I
Lieutenant Commander
PBAoE Damage + Movement Debuff
28.4 Kinetic Damage in 3km radius
Creates a Subspace Distortion for 15 sec which inflicts the following on foes in the area:
-33.3% Flight Speed and Turn Rate
-15% Defense
Subspace Boom II
Commander
PBAoE Damage + Movement Debuff
34.3 Kinetic Damage in 3km radius
Creates a Subspace Distortion for 15 sec which inflicts the following on foes in the area:
-50% Flight Speed and Turn Rate
-25% Defense
PvP Bootcamp...was extremely popular and well-done in it's very first go-around. Practically every major PvP fleet came into it and gave some kind of help. We had support from Branflakes and Borticus. There were...what...I think over 300 students in that first class.
After Sargon left, most of the support vanished. Stupid incidents, such as Pax causing hell on Pheo's TS he had provided (if memory serves, he threatened to have Hannibal or Hank banned from it, but it was so long ago now, I could be getting the details wrong). Among other things, practically everyone left.
For a majority of it's 'life', Kolln, Drk, Jedi, and myself 'were' Bootcamp. To anyone reading who was there in that dark period after the first series of classes, don't misunderstand, all the help from those who still wanted to do good for it during that time, it was and is still appreciated, but in the end, it was still mostly the four of us. I remember all too often, being one of only one or two coaches for most classes.
Bootcamp's first session in my opinion, was the biggest 'golden moment' for STO PvP. Had things not gone so south, I feel that might've really started something major. Honestly, I am not sure if myself or any of the other VAs could've held Bootcamp together after Sargon left (nothing against any of them of course), he had a kind of interesting charisma that was enough to bring all those fleets together.
Cryptic/PWE isn't innocent entirely though either. Branflakes, even until the day he left had at least an interest in Bootcamp, and for that I am thankful. Smirk though...I could barely ever get even a response out of him on anything, at least in terms of these forums, and as far as I can remember, none of the other VAs had much luck either. So any support we did have in that regard was gone. The constant additions, much like how so many other PvPers have felt, slowly eroded any desire to try and teach students about a PvP we knew wouldn't be an enjoyment to them...and DR...
DR pretty much killed Bootcamp dead in it's tracks, whatever momentum it had, was stopped cold by it.
Now, that all aside...
You say Ricossa is in the EP seat, which is true. But he needs to do three major things, not even related to PvP, to give anything a real chance:
1. Remove some of the TRIBBLE added in over time. Not sure what exactly, but some of the junk put in during D'angelo's time just needs to go. I doubt that it will happen though.
2. Reduce costs and grind. Namely for leveling/spec points, and for upgrading. I'd say, at LEAST 75% reduction for spec point cost, and 50% cost for upgrading, period. Those two things alone killed ALL desire to work on any alts anymore. Heck, even just focusing on one character, it's so time-consuming alone merely to get spec points I can't bring myself to even bother to want to outside of just slotting DOFF projects.
3. Pull on Geko's leash...a LOT. Seriously, in all of D'angelo's reign it felt like Geko was given almost complete and total freedom to do whatever the hell he wanted, and D'angelo was some kind of 'lame duck' EP. Heck, could even argue Geko was that way somewhat even while D'stahl was here. Either way, Ricossa needs to pull him down a few notches if he really wants to do what he says.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Because people aren't playing.
Why aren't people playing?
It isn't just PvP that is dead; the Space PvE queues are also quite dead. The biggest reason PvE queues are dead is because Cryptic decided to exponentially increase NPC hull/shield mods at level 60. I hate to say it, but Cryptic made space combat tedious by trying to pad HP bars to block Attack Pattern Beta stacking exploiters.
PvP is dead because of the specialization system and the upgrade system. Rarity upgrades are hidden behind a random number generator that few want to mess with because there is so much uncertainty. Specialization trees will take years of grinding to complete on multiple characters. The bar to entry for PvP is so high that everyone is just taking their time before even considering reentry into the queues.
Then when it comes to the actual queues you've the the extremely powerful Surgical Strikes ability destroying players in 2-5 seconds. There are few players that want to do anything when there's an ability available to a a select group of C-Store ships that obliterates all other ships with ease.
..............so this isn't just turning pilot into an expanded primary specialization with more stuff in it, this is the launch of ANOTHER group of specialization powers.
based on those stats, all of those are at least damn not bad to OMGWTF. the -100% inertia sounds hilarious, the one that drains engine power to speed up weapon cycles sounds like a hellishly powerful DPS multiplier, and several others make speed tanking even more the best form of tanking.
these look fun, like intel looked fun until they got used on you and meaningful pvp stopped being possible. its stuff like this that makes you want to start playing again, but then you remember
- probably need 10 levels of specialization to even use these, 30 or whatever to use version 3
- they are locked behind a buy a new ship pay wall, none of the dozens of escorts i bought over the last 5 years can use any of these, an actual tier 6 token that grants hybrid stations of at least LTC level for every ship is needed before i ever consider playing again, full stop
- still need to drop $100 into upgrades to make even 1 character playable
-if anything, the speed at which specialization can be earned is slower then it was last time i tried to grind any
-still no pvp worth playing, so no where to make most of these escort skills useful
- with this getting released already, we are more likely to see a tier 6 defiant with a measly LT hybrid seat, before we see a command galaxy, because **** galaxy fans amirite
- this is one of the best example of short term cryptic thinking, introducing the tier 6 bug BEFORE the freeking escort specialization was ready, and it instead getting a cruiser hybrid seat. lol this is why people think you've lost it cryptic
these look fun, like intel looked fun until they got used on you and meaningful pvp stopped being possible. its stuff like this that makes you want to start playing again, but then you remember
...
Your points are good ones. I think its the most desperate move I have seen from Cryptic in a long while myself.
I think they are starting to realize the PvPers leaving has been impacting there bottom line. They are bleeding PvE people as well from what I see. All that will be left soon will be the hard core Role Play folks... and the F2P trolls that will log in to make sure there having fun.
In there eyes this bit of creep should have us all running back... cause PvPers like to go fast... and the PvE guys aren't bothering wtih command cause they have intel. This fixes everything as they see it... the PVE guys can slot command and intel, and us PvPers are supposed to be super happy that we can push 3 buttons and have 200 defense. lmao Games got even more stupid.
edit: Okay, perhaps it would help to list what the abilities currently show at the Bridge Officer Trainer/Store (note it's on Ground, since you can't actually create the Pilot Specialization nor buy a Pilot BOFF - so keep that in mind for the obvious numbers that are out of place, damage/heal-type stuff)...
*snip to save space*
Well, if there's one thing you cannot accuse Cryptic of being, is subtle
no, there is no other correct reason for it being dead other then its utterly ruined beyond saving.
even if you shell out the exorbitant amounts of dil and cash on upgrades and the latest power creep and ships, and grind out all the specialization, you are still left with PVP that has no redeeming value, and is the true personification of race to the bottom. were whoever shoots first ether wins, or kills themselves with their own first fireing cycle. thats pvp now. there's no healers, no debuffers, nothing subtle like force multipliers or pressure. there's just particles madness, vapers and surgical strike, thats it.
Druk about sums it up pretty good!
Oh and, made worse by the fact it has no real rewards, outside of some pleasure in either blowing someone up, dying continuously, massive headaches, constant complaining, etc..
So, without any hard value rewards, it's no wonder so many people prefer not to bother being involved!
There is so much evulness in some of these abilities, I highly doubt that any of these skills got properly tested, they would prolly break PvP... If there was any PvP left.....
I could think of some thought experiments "what if these skill were available in S5,6,7 etc." ... meh I'm gonna watch some Baywatch before I get mad haha
**** it, you're all correct. PvP is dead, non-resuscitatable, non-restorable, dead, it's dead jim, dead dead dead jim it's dead, dead-jim-dead...and cryptic is still pulling the trigger.
or, at least, that's one relatively fair analysis. The other is that they made it a primary so you can't stack "Rock and Roll" with Intel abilities.
I don't think you understand... you can now slot primarys as secondarys... it just shuts off the top tiers.
"Additionally, we will from now on be allowing any Primary Specialization to be slotted as a Secondary, for the purposes of choosing which abilities are active. This includes the existing Intelligence Officer and Command Officer Specializations. When a Primary Specialization is slotted as Secondary, you will gain the full benefits of any abilities you have purchased from Tier 1 and Tier 2."
So now you can mix match command and intel... or intel and pilot or pilot and command ect. The one in the secondary slot will have the top tiers greyed out.
Reciprocity being just one side's perk has to do a lot with PVP being almost dead .
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Trying to circumvent Cryptic's blundering is hard and doomed to fail in the long run because it's their game and they do whatever they want with it. Cryptic is actively harming the game with poorly designed mechanics, multiplication of grinding and more cashgrabs.
It's hard to keep the moral up to do these when Cryptic is introducing more broken things. I salute those that have tried I understand why they got discouraged in the end.
Comments
With out fail they release something that is clearly not there to improve the game, its there to sell something. When X thing doesn't sell as well as they like it gets a BUFF... if they need money NOW NOW NOW, they are not above SUPER buffing something, and "Fixing" it 4-5 months down the line when they have something new to sell instead.
If that doesn't sound true to anyone just consider some of the most recent Sales related changes.
Today - Pilot and other Secondary specs becoming Primary specs and the idea of Sec/Pri going away... (translation: No one bought into Command like they where supposed to cause INTEL is BS... so this is an end way around to let people slot both Command And Intel if they like... or grind a few new points in pilot)
VM torp - It was stupid OP long enough, sell through is pretty much maxed. So it can be "fixed" now. Cause its not like they didn't hear the complaints the day it was released.
MK 14 weapons - Didn't sell all that well at first. A lot of people where happy with mk 13 if they bothered to upgrade at all. So Geko said... hey what if we break the item/DMG bonus ratio and make mk 14 Stupid powerful... Problem solved Upgrade to 14 or be <.
Ionic - Same story as VM torp
Anyway who cares anymore really (yes I get it where all here typing) Developers that have integrity and care about game design, shoot for something a little more artistic and better balance. Some even prescribe to the same Thinking as Geko... that fun games always have a small bit of inbalance in them. HOWEVER I think it should be clear that there is a point where that forced inbalance becomes obvious greed and turns off more people then it excites. (the type that get sucked in hunting for broken stuffs and bugs to exploit... start seeing through and realizing even the worst programmers couldn't possibly TRIBBLE up that often unless it was on purpose)
Sure some people are to slow to realize there "unique build" tricks... are not some super secret hidden mechanics/items/combos because the devs are "incompetent" or because they are just that good as players. Its because Cryptic konws exactly what they are doing... they break stuff on purpose, they release things "bugged" on purpose. Things tend to get fixed around the time the majority of people have found them. Things like the Bounty Hunter 3 piece bonus will get fixed when it catches on with the masses and makes Cryptic enough $.
This game could have amazing pvp. Instead it has powercreep moving at the speed of light. Thankfully, the rumor mill + an older somethingaweful post seem to be coming true, and I'm sure this community will be the first in line to dance on cryptics grave.
First in line?.... we've started the queue already so we can watch cryptic dig their own grave....
If i were a dev at cryptic....I'd be handing in my notice...never mind waiting to be laid off...there are other oppurtunites out there...
which I know of because im starting a foundation/Honours degree in computer gaming programming...after seeing this mess ive decided i want to be able to make a difference...lol
I can still remember the masses of Fed & KDF PVP even in the queues when STO launched. I can still remember being able to take my Lv5 Fed or KDF and PVP my way to the Lv40 cap without doing any PVE content outside of the tutorial; From Lt/Warrior to RAdm/BGen, PVP was roaring.
And Cryptic did nothing to fan the flames of PVP that was going back then. They pretty much left it to rot on the vine. Everything else afterwards was merely a kick to the dusty corpse on the side of the road as you walked by.
It's a terrible shame to let entire elements of your game collapse the way PVP did.
Edit: When you step back and look that Cryptic can't even do 2 factions right, much less 2.5, should it surprise anyone that PVP is dead and elements like Exploration Clusters removed, 2 phased Starbase 24 gone, Terrordome pulled?
Hmm..
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9080973-pilot-specialization
Information like this comes to mind.
That and the fact that to Cryptic, Beta is more of a platform to show off what's coming out, and less of a shake down before Live launch. So all those little teasers you can just tell will be either buged and not working, or bugged in the OP OMG everyone needs it way.
I'm in a happy place now. I'm enjoying my Dragonball XV, looking to try out Final Fantasy Realm Reborn in a couple months. And looking forward to some other space games coming out soon, and no not Star Citizen. Not in Elite Dangerous either.
So while I might come to the Bar to cry into my Beer, at least I know the sun will come out tomorrow.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I think the Dev's have alot more to do to kill off PvP than players ever can...
The lack of Teamwork in pugs in STO do depends when players have no chemistry with each other, same is true with all other MMO games i've played... but there's another factors that for players not wanting teamwork or win a match... lack of incentive and motivation due to lack of any PvP rewards system, back in early 2011 when i played my first PvP matches i did care about teamwork and winning matches until Cryptic decided to make all PvP queue's into Cross Factions only mess, even though there was no real PvP reward system back then as it is now, i wanted to win for the pride of the KDF Community, but nowadayz with no KvF queue's i don't even care about winning or do any teamwork in my group especially teaming up with feds 90% of the time now, why? for me not only the matches are only Cross Factions, but like most other people there no bonus rewards for winning matches therefor many players don't care if they win or lose, the only thing that counts now for most players is just a good Kill/Death ratio of ships u've blown out of the skies, how much less deaths u have and/or even how much damage u deal... so again in the end there is no incentive or any motivation for winning especially if u get nothing from it.
While the Players do pull the trigger to kill the opponents it's the Dev' fault for creating the conditions for players to get Spawn Camped to begin with, in most other MMO's games their Dev's create Safe Zones to prevent players to get automatically killed, in STO there are no Safe Zones in any Maps, there's not even alternative Spawn Point where u can switch to... so without any Safe Zones, Spawn Points Relocations, or any real Spawn Point Defenses to protect players against Spawn Campers... and without these, this is why Spawn Camping is bad as it is in STO PvP.
I'd love that actually. Because I want to see the other players out in PVE land being utterly confused and clueless in what to do since NPCs are debuffing them with complaints. And many out there don't know what to do if even something simple like APB lands on them
I would just want to see it all burn!
Attack Pattern Lambda I
Ensign
On Weapon Hit: -Acc, -Perception, Chance to Confuse
Self for 15 sec:
+15% Accuracy
+299 Perception
Foe on Weapon Hit:
-25% Accuracy for 5 sec
-299 Perception for 5 sec
20% chance: Confuse for 5 sec
Attack Pattern Lambda II
Lieutenant
On Weapon Hit: -Acc, -Perception, Chance to Confuse
Self for 15 sec:
+20% Accuracy
+373.8 Perception
Foe on Weapon Hit:
-32.4% Accuracy for 5 sec
-373.8 Perception for 5 sec
20% chance: Confuse for 5 sec
Deploy Countermeasures I
Ensign
PBAoE Destroy Targetable Torpedoes, Kinetic Immunity
To foes within 3.0 km:
Destroys Targetable Torpedoes and Mines
25% chance: Confuse for 4 sec (double chance vs. Fighters and Frigates)
to self: Immunity to Kinetic Damage for 4 sec
Deploy Countermeasures II
Lieutenant
PBAoE Destroy Targetable Torpedoes, Kinetic Immunity
To foes within 3.0 km:
Destroys Targetable Torpedoes and Mines
35% chance: Confuse for 6 sec (double chance vs. Fighters and Frigates)
to self: Immunity to Kinetic Damage for 6 sec
Lock Trajectory I
Ensign
Continue on Current Course, but Turn Freely
Inertia Rating set to Zero
+100% Flight Turn Rate
(Requires >50% Throttle to activate)
Lock Trajectory II
Lieutenant
Continue on Current Course, but Turn Freely
Inertia Rating set to Zero
+150% Flight Turn Rate
(Requires >50% Throttle to activate)
Pilot Team I
Ensign
Accuracy/Defense Buff, Immune to Movement Debuffs
+12% Accuracy for 10 sec
+12% Defense for 10 sec
+100 Resistance Rating to Movement Debuffs
Pilot Team II
Lieutenant
Accuracy/Defense Buff, Immune to Movement Debuffs
+16% Accuracy for 10 sec
+16% Defense for 10 sec
+300 Resistance Rating to Movement Debuffs
Clean Getaway I
Lieutenant
Rear-Facing Placate/Debuff, Speed Boost
All Foes in 90-degree Rear-Facing Cone, 5.0km Range:
Reset Aggro vs. Affected NPCs
Placate for 4 sec (Fragile)
-33.3% Flight Speed for 4 sec
To Self: +136.2% Flight Speed for 4 sec
Clean Getaway II
Lieutenant Commander
Rear-Facing Placate/Debuff, Speed Boost
All Foes in 90-degree Rear-Facing Cone, 5.0km Range:
Reset Aggro vs. Affected NPCs
Placate for 6 sec (Fragile)
-50% Flight Speed for 6 sec
To Self: +177.1% Flight Speed for 6 sec
Fly Her Apart I
Lieutenant
Speed Boost but Damage Self; Ambush on Expire
+25 - 100% Flight Speed (increases each sec)
-20.4 Hull Capacity per sec (3% of max)
On Expire: +2% All Damage Bonus per second Active
Fly Her Apart II
Lieutenant Commander
Speed Boost but Damage Self; Ambush on Expire
+50 - 200% Flight Speed (increases each sec)
-17 Hull Capacity per sec (2.5% of max)
On Expire: +2.5% All Damage Bonus per second Active
Hold Together I
Lieutenant
Self Hull Regen and Dmg Res Based on Throttle
+6.1 Hull Restored per sec (Based on Throttle)
+37 All Damage Resistance Rating (Based on Throttle)
At 100% Throttle: Remove one hazard debuff per sec
Hold Together II
Lieutenant Commander
Self Hull Regen and Dmg Res Based on Throttle
+7.9 Hull Restored per sec (Based on Throttle)
+48.1 All Damage Resistance Rating (Based on Throttle)
At 75% Throttle: Remove one hazard debuff per sec
Reinforcements Squadron I
Lieutenant
Summon Fighter Pets
Call in a squadron of four level 1 Reinforcement Fighters
Reinforcements Squadron II
Lieutenant Commander
Summon Fighter Pets
Call in a squadron of four level 1 Advanced Reinforcement Fighters
Coolant Ignition I
Lieutenant Commander
AOE Plasma Hazard Trail
Ejects Coolant Cloud that ignites after 10 sec
Before Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
-99% Flight Turn Rate
-75% Flight Speed
After Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
7.5 Plasma Damage (Ignores Shields) every sec
Coolant Ignition II
Commander
AOE Plasma Hazard Trail
Ejects Coolant Cloud that ignites after 10 sec
Before Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
-99% Flight Turn Rate
-85.7% Flight Speed
After Ignition foes in Cloud suffer:
9.8 Plasma Damage (Ignores Shields) every sec
Form Up I
Lieutenant Commander
Teleport to Ally, Buff Both if Remain Close
Teleport to Target Ally
For up to 20sec, while within 5km of Target Ally:
Bonus +5 - 20% All Damage (based on pulse) to Self and Target Ally
Effect ends immediately if >5km from Target Ally
Form Up II
Commander
Teleport to Ally, Buff Both if Remain Close
Teleport to Target Ally
For up to 20sec, while within 5km of Target Ally:
Bonus +10 - 30% All Damage (based on pulse) to Self and Target Ally
Effect ends immediately if >5km from Target Ally
Reroute Reserves to Weapons I
Lieutenant Commander
Weapons Haste, but Drain from Engines
Set Weapon Power Drain to zero
20% Firing Cycle Haste for Energy Weapons
-10 Engine Power from Energy Weapon activation
Reroute Reserves to Weapons II
Commander
Weapons Haste, but Drain from Engines
Set Weapon Power Drain to zero
40% Firing Cycle Haste for Energy Weapons
-8 Engine Power from Energy Weapon activation
Subspace Boom I
Lieutenant Commander
PBAoE Damage + Movement Debuff
28.4 Kinetic Damage in 3km radius
Creates a Subspace Distortion for 15 sec which inflicts the following on foes in the area:
-33.3% Flight Speed and Turn Rate
-15% Defense
Subspace Boom II
Commander
PBAoE Damage + Movement Debuff
34.3 Kinetic Damage in 3km radius
Creates a Subspace Distortion for 15 sec which inflicts the following on foes in the area:
-50% Flight Speed and Turn Rate
-25% Defense
After Sargon left, most of the support vanished. Stupid incidents, such as Pax causing hell on Pheo's TS he had provided (if memory serves, he threatened to have Hannibal or Hank banned from it, but it was so long ago now, I could be getting the details wrong). Among other things, practically everyone left.
For a majority of it's 'life', Kolln, Drk, Jedi, and myself 'were' Bootcamp. To anyone reading who was there in that dark period after the first series of classes, don't misunderstand, all the help from those who still wanted to do good for it during that time, it was and is still appreciated, but in the end, it was still mostly the four of us. I remember all too often, being one of only one or two coaches for most classes.
Bootcamp's first session in my opinion, was the biggest 'golden moment' for STO PvP. Had things not gone so south, I feel that might've really started something major. Honestly, I am not sure if myself or any of the other VAs could've held Bootcamp together after Sargon left (nothing against any of them of course), he had a kind of interesting charisma that was enough to bring all those fleets together.
Cryptic/PWE isn't innocent entirely though either. Branflakes, even until the day he left had at least an interest in Bootcamp, and for that I am thankful. Smirk though...I could barely ever get even a response out of him on anything, at least in terms of these forums, and as far as I can remember, none of the other VAs had much luck either. So any support we did have in that regard was gone. The constant additions, much like how so many other PvPers have felt, slowly eroded any desire to try and teach students about a PvP we knew wouldn't be an enjoyment to them...and DR...
DR pretty much killed Bootcamp dead in it's tracks, whatever momentum it had, was stopped cold by it.
Now, that all aside...
You say Ricossa is in the EP seat, which is true. But he needs to do three major things, not even related to PvP, to give anything a real chance:
1. Remove some of the TRIBBLE added in over time. Not sure what exactly, but some of the junk put in during D'angelo's time just needs to go. I doubt that it will happen though.
2. Reduce costs and grind. Namely for leveling/spec points, and for upgrading. I'd say, at LEAST 75% reduction for spec point cost, and 50% cost for upgrading, period. Those two things alone killed ALL desire to work on any alts anymore. Heck, even just focusing on one character, it's so time-consuming alone merely to get spec points I can't bring myself to even bother to want to outside of just slotting DOFF projects.
3. Pull on Geko's leash...a LOT. Seriously, in all of D'angelo's reign it felt like Geko was given almost complete and total freedom to do whatever the hell he wanted, and D'angelo was some kind of 'lame duck' EP. Heck, could even argue Geko was that way somewhat even while D'stahl was here. Either way, Ricossa needs to pull him down a few notches if he really wants to do what he says.
It isn't just PvP that is dead; the Space PvE queues are also quite dead. The biggest reason PvE queues are dead is because Cryptic decided to exponentially increase NPC hull/shield mods at level 60. I hate to say it, but Cryptic made space combat tedious by trying to pad HP bars to block Attack Pattern Beta stacking exploiters.
PvP is dead because of the specialization system and the upgrade system. Rarity upgrades are hidden behind a random number generator that few want to mess with because there is so much uncertainty. Specialization trees will take years of grinding to complete on multiple characters. The bar to entry for PvP is so high that everyone is just taking their time before even considering reentry into the queues.
Then when it comes to the actual queues you've the the extremely powerful Surgical Strikes ability destroying players in 2-5 seconds. There are few players that want to do anything when there's an ability available to a a select group of C-Store ships that obliterates all other ships with ease.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
..............so this isn't just turning pilot into an expanded primary specialization with more stuff in it, this is the launch of ANOTHER group of specialization powers.
based on those stats, all of those are at least damn not bad to OMGWTF. the -100% inertia sounds hilarious, the one that drains engine power to speed up weapon cycles sounds like a hellishly powerful DPS multiplier, and several others make speed tanking even more the best form of tanking.
these look fun, like intel looked fun until they got used on you and meaningful pvp stopped being possible. its stuff like this that makes you want to start playing again, but then you remember
- probably need 10 levels of specialization to even use these, 30 or whatever to use version 3
- they are locked behind a buy a new ship pay wall, none of the dozens of escorts i bought over the last 5 years can use any of these, an actual tier 6 token that grants hybrid stations of at least LTC level for every ship is needed before i ever consider playing again, full stop
- still need to drop $100 into upgrades to make even 1 character playable
-if anything, the speed at which specialization can be earned is slower then it was last time i tried to grind any
-still no pvp worth playing, so no where to make most of these escort skills useful
- with this getting released already, we are more likely to see a tier 6 defiant with a measly LT hybrid seat, before we see a command galaxy, because **** galaxy fans amirite
- this is one of the best example of short term cryptic thinking, introducing the tier 6 bug BEFORE the freeking escort specialization was ready, and it instead getting a cruiser hybrid seat. lol this is why people think you've lost it cryptic
never mind. desire to play again extinguished.
Your points are good ones. I think its the most desperate move I have seen from Cryptic in a long while myself.
I think they are starting to realize the PvPers leaving has been impacting there bottom line. They are bleeding PvE people as well from what I see. All that will be left soon will be the hard core Role Play folks... and the F2P trolls that will log in to make sure there having fun.
In there eyes this bit of creep should have us all running back... cause PvPers like to go fast... and the PvE guys aren't bothering wtih command cause they have intel. This fixes everything as they see it... the PVE guys can slot command and intel, and us PvPers are supposed to be super happy that we can push 3 buttons and have 200 defense.
Well, if there's one thing you cannot accuse Cryptic of being, is subtle
Druk about sums it up pretty good!
Oh and, made worse by the fact it has no real rewards, outside of some pleasure in either blowing someone up, dying continuously, massive headaches, constant complaining, etc..
So, without any hard value rewards, it's no wonder so many people prefer not to bother being involved!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
OMFG, please say you made dat all up lol!
There is so much evulness in some of these abilities, I highly doubt that any of these skills got properly tested, they would prolly break PvP... If there was any PvP left.....
I could think of some thought experiments "what if these skill were available in S5,6,7 etc."
I don't think you understand... you can now slot primarys as secondarys... it just shuts off the top tiers.
"Additionally, we will from now on be allowing any Primary Specialization to be slotted as a Secondary, for the purposes of choosing which abilities are active. This includes the existing Intelligence Officer and Command Officer Specializations. When a Primary Specialization is slotted as Secondary, you will gain the full benefits of any abilities you have purchased from Tier 1 and Tier 2."
So now you can mix match command and intel... or intel and pilot or pilot and command ect. The one in the secondary slot will have the top tiers greyed out.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
The PvP Bootcamp
Fourm guides
Training fleets / Chat channels
Tournaments
You name it, we have done it
Its sad looking at all the players we have lost, i found this from the old days: (Pre Panda, IC, Hobo, TRH ect)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tolcPjt3SxB9rMVza134R4acS5KGJ8kEA7HRNAfIJQ0/edit#gid=0
How many of those players are still playing from that link
Another list of players I found that no longer play:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kxOFmk-YcpThM57sgBaFUxRTjD2YMGGBNUSCp1dHQuU/edit#gid=0
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=358941
Wow, this makes for an even worse read, can we get this a sticky yet
Hey, I'm on there!
Anyways, I am no longer playing the game really. I login about once per month to do a foundry mission or two.
Its basically 'PvP' spec tree. I really think this will help us...less Intel for one!
What I most excited about though is that pretty much garuantess a Zen store t6 'pilot' bop!!!!
We got to face facts p2w is the only way now.
Trying to circumvent Cryptic's blundering is hard and doomed to fail in the long run because it's their game and they do whatever they want with it. Cryptic is actively harming the game with poorly designed mechanics, multiplication of grinding and more cashgrabs.
It's hard to keep the moral up to do these when Cryptic is introducing more broken things. I salute those that have tried I understand why they got discouraged in the end.