how is comparing torps weapons slotted on a ship anything to do with ionic?
tracking?
that's the beef? tracking? your angry cause ionic lost tracking?
Annoyed, more like.
ionic lost its tracking so that pvp can avoid being dominated by a single power, a power so strong that it became a deciding factor in most all matches it was used in-
And what's next? Surgical Strikes? People are already gleefully lining up for yet the next nerf.
I am in the 99% of the playerbase: I am a PvE-er. I have never ever tried to take anything away from anyone. People want their OP Scims?! Let them have them! They want fancy Intel ships? Sure, go buy them! PvP-ers, on the other hand, are always looking for nerfs (that drag everyone else down too).
now is your blind rage for pvpers in this game so strong, so blind, that you wont take losing the tracking feature of ionic to give those that pvp a decent chance at avoiding doom in pvp matches?
If anything, I'm seeing blind rage, and ridicule, at PvE-ers, for daring to say they don't want that 1% of the playerbase to get them nerfed all the time.
And, as I keep saying, and which you keep ignoring, I've always been entirely against the disable component of IT. All they had to do was remove that, for PvP, and nobody would have been 'locked out' horribly any more, ever.
the power for Christ sakes is still awesome, it still works perfectly, it now just requires you to point your ship at your target and close a little distance before you drop it is all, and for you having to do that, for you to give that just wee bit of effort, COUNTLESS pug teams in pvp will be thanking god everyday that cryptic turned off the tracking off ionic
common, if you even have any feelings what so ever you gotta understand that
In my opinion IT was perfect weapon for a lonely tac against the sci from a premade team.
Like 2-3 sci ships in a premade halting everybody and anything with TBR3+FBPx2+EWP+Danubes.
You could hit them from far away and avoid EWP/TBR/danube spam or TDF snooping .
In my opinion hitting them with "broken" IT IIII was fair retribution for them playing premade and it gave a little chance to a PUG team to win against a premade.
With IT III nerf ,in my opinion, Sci won this time and all tacs running T6 loose but that is life after all.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
IT1's 20% per sec.
IT2's 30% per sec.
IT3's 40% per sec.
Might be a personal bias, but I see Tacs as being zippier than Eng or Sci. Doesn't matter what they're flying, they just seem relatively zippier. Heh, a Tac in a D'deridex vs. an Eng in a D'deridex - I'm just going to expect one of them is going to be moving a bit zippier than the other.
One is simply not going to be in the field as long as the other and not subject to as many rolls. Even if they're hit by a Viral Torp, it's not stopping them - they'll keep moving on out of the field.
Back in October, they changed the chance from 20% to 20%, 35% to 30%, and 50% to 40%. They increased the immunity period from 6s to 10s. They reduced the amount of "repel" by 20%.
That last part would have helped some of the ziipier folks not lose their momentum.
There was a thread discussing counters to Ionic/Viral Torpedo/etc...where the key issue, imho, was the overall lack of an immunity period actually applying from any of it. Multiple folks dropping out Ionics and the Viral Torp spam issue just meant chained stuns. It got into HE/ET applications, both ET->HE and outside HE sort of things...but Gather Intel (including the full stack from the Phaser/Plasma Lances) and Sci could just make a mockery of it.
But at the same time, if somebody dropped out an Ionic from a day away - it left far too much time to think of the best potential counter for it. Lol, even the goofy Trajector Jump just as it hit could turn a death moment into a neeneer moment.
Tacs though...I just always saw them more as zipping around, so even if they got hit - they'd be on their way. With their higher defense, they'd also be subject less to the Viral Torps and landing those Lance consoles.
Would get into that combination of SNB, Intel Lance Console, VM, Particle Emission Torp, Ionic, EMP...and yeah, some other things...making them the sitting target for somebody else to have their way with them.
While Eng/Sci, tending to be in those slower vessels - even somebody in a Wells was moving slow compared to Tacs zipping around in whatever they received in the mail from the Escort-of-the-Month Club. Hell, the way some would move their Cruisers would put Eng/Sci to shame in Escorts.
Guess I'm rambling all over the place here, but yeah - it was something that I definitely noticed; but I guess I just always attributed it to speed...that bias...Tacs fly around faster sort of thing.
I can't recall the discussion on the role that APO/AtD played in it, because the whole thing was muddied by that combination of Ionic, Viral Torp, and even the Gather Intel stuff....
Did anybody actually ever run the EPtE Control Resistance DOFF? Reckless Abandon's Evasive Maneuvers immunity to movement stuff? Does Boost Morale provide that CoT for it. CoT? Lol, DoT (Damage), HoT (Heal), CoT (Cleanse)...CoT? That just...meh, I need more caffeine and a smoke...wtf have I been babbling about there. :P
Thank you for answering.I didn't know the figures I just noticed the facts and how IT became less effective as it was at first.So actually now it is at least the second "adjustment" to IT in fact.
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
honey, going on as long as you have, for as many posts as you have done, I don't think annoyed is the right word
as to whats next? surgical? ya, it is- it is next, I use it, its sick, its awesome, its a bit... to awesome, I know many pvpers that would love to see that power nerfed into oblivion, I don't want that, I don't want that at all, I want all powers to have a use, all powers to be effective, but getting that much acc plus crit chance, is silly- its just silly, it needs to be turned down, but that's a discussion for another day (and that days a coming)
as for the rage and the ridicule, what we got here is two different tribes sharing the same island, now I think one tribe always gets what it wants, ALL THE TIME, and the other tribe gets a little bit from time to time, THE first tribe, cause its always use to having all the attention, gets angry whenever the second tribe gets any attention at all, the first tribe has no clue how to use have the things it has, but any time the second tribe gets a tweak to the use of just ONE of those things.. the first tribe sees it as a direct attack on its entire way of life (when in reality, the first tribe wasn't even really using those items in any meaningful way, and so the impact to the first tribe really isn't even something to be noticed), needless to say, both tribes are very frustrated with each other
anyways, bad simile, but the point im trying to make with this is: chill out, you were probably not even using it effectively in the first place and next week will be a brand new shiney to take you attention away that cryptic will provide, and a couple weeks from now you will be "ionic.. what..?"
finally, for your point on the disable feature, hey ya, that would be a great fix as well (and still needs to come, as in dialed back a hair, KEEP the disable, but just not so long locked out) anyways, great idea on your part- totally agree, keep the tracking, drop the lockout, all is happy and right as rain
I will throw another one out there for you, I have always been a fan of having effects in pve and DIFFERENT effects in pvp,
so say, make ionic in pve, track all targets out to range.... say 20k, shoots out in all directions, disables all targets in massive cloud for 30 seconds, awesome, cool, perfect- BUT in pvp, it doesn't track, its disable last TOPS 2-3 seconds, perfect, awesome-
this way, everyones happy, the pve players get the power they want (to help...them...I guess.. cause they need it to ...win *snicker I n f e c t e d) or WHATEVER they wish to fight, where ever they wish to fight, and then the pvpers get the god damn balance that is expected in a VIDEO GAME
again, wack up the powers, all of them, I don't care, give them effects in pve, and separate effects in pvp, AND I DONT CARE HOW OVERPOWERED THEY MAKE IT FOR PVE, don't care, not one bit, all pve is a joke and can be beaten with any ship, and level gear, and with a jacked boff layout WHILE NOT even paying attention to what your doing, SURE, give me a console that I can activate that just auto VAPES every sphere I bump my ship into, that
that,
at least.. THAT
would be mildly entertaining and challenging to do in pve content
I actually felt like standing up and applauding. What a brilliant post.
honey, going on as long as you have, for as many posts as you have done, I don't think annoyed is the right word
as to whats next? surgical? ya, it is- it is next, I use it, its sick, its awesome, its a bit... to awesome, I know many pvpers that would love to see that power nerfed into oblivion, I don't want that, I don't want that at all, I want all powers to have a use, all powers to be effective, but getting that much acc plus crit chance, is silly- its just silly, it needs to be turned down, but that's a discussion for another day (and that days a coming)
as for the rage and the ridicule, what we got here is two different tribes sharing the same island, now I think one tribe always gets what it wants, ALL THE TIME, and the other tribe gets a little bit from time to time, THE first tribe, cause its always use to having all the attention, gets angry whenever the second tribe gets any attention at all, the first tribe has no clue how to use have the things it has, but any time the second tribe gets a tweak to the use of just ONE of those things.. the first tribe sees it as a direct attack on its entire way of life (when in reality, the first tribe wasn't even really using those items in any meaningful way, and so the impact to the first tribe really isn't even something to be noticed), needless to say, both tribes are very frustrated with each other
anyways, bad simile, but the point im trying to make with this is: chill out, you were probably not even using it effectively in the first place and next week will be a brand new shiney to take you attention away that cryptic will provide, and a couple weeks from now you will be "ionic.. what..?"
finally, for your point on the disable feature, hey ya, that would be a great fix as well (and still needs to come, as in dialed back a hair, KEEP the disable, but just not so long locked out) anyways, great idea on your part- totally agree, keep the tracking, drop the lockout, all is happy and right as rain
I will throw another one out there for you, I have always been a fan of having effects in pve and DIFFERENT effects in pvp,
so say, make ionic in pve, track all targets out to range.... say 20k, shoots out in all directions, disables all targets in massive cloud for 30 seconds, awesome, cool, perfect- BUT in pvp, it doesn't track, its disable last TOPS 2-3 seconds, perfect, awesome-
this way, everyones happy, the pve players get the power they want (to help...them...I guess.. cause they need it to ...win *snicker I n f e c t e d) or WHATEVER they wish to fight, where ever they wish to fight, and then the pvpers get the god damn balance that is expected in a VIDEO GAME
again, wack up the powers, all of them, I don't care, give them effects in pve, and separate effects in pvp, AND I DONT CARE HOW OVERPOWERED THEY MAKE IT FOR PVE, don't care, not one bit, all pve is a joke and can be beaten with any ship, and level gear, and with a jacked boff layout WHILE NOT even paying attention to what your doing, SURE, give me a console that I can activate that just auto VAPES every sphere I bump my ship into, that
that,
at least.. THAT
would be mildly entertaining and challenging to do in pve content
^^ Your post made me smile. (Despite the fact that you want SS nerfed). Not even sure why I smiled, LOL, but you seem not totally unreasonable or mean, and I appreciate that.
And we appear to agree on something I've been a long-time proponent of as wel: different stats for PvP and PvE. In a staggering case of Ironic Turbulence, actually some of the Intel powers (like Evade Target Lock) were already showing signs of Cryptic accomplishing just that! I wish they had continued on that path, though.
As for tribes, come on over to the fun side of the island, where us PvE-ers live! It's mindless fun, for sure; but I suppose that's what makes it fun.
....this is nothing but pathetic! mk xii beams on a galor still melt away like everything there's out there and people complain about ionic not chasing anymore and fear a ss3 nerf....
really, whoever cries about ionic FIXED: l2p :P. thx.
....this is nothing but pathetic! mk xii beams on a galor still melt away like everything there's out there and people complain about ionic not chasing anymore and fear a ss3 nerf....
really, whoever cries about ionic FIXED: l2p :P. thx.
What's all this fuss about? I agree that the nasty part was the almost total disable and not the chase but c'mon NPCs don't have evasive maneuvers with the EptE doff and if you can't hit them with IT , throw a cheap GW1 right before
I don't deserve that compliment, I am being really, really rude and she doesn't deserve it really, but,
everyones a bit angry nowadays, more so then before,
many of us pvper have had to wait.... months for any fixes, ANY
its been months of jacked pvp matches, grind, and cryptic asking each and every one of us to basically flat out BUY a brand new ship, WHY? reasons
money
that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, took a bit of the magic out of the game,
myself?
I really do like t6, I like new boff powers being thrown into the mix, I cant wait to see what folks cook up in the cues, but on account of all the broken powers (im exaggerating, its a few tweaks really that's just needed) pvp just hasn't felt like it started yet for t6, we want it to start, get to a semi balanced, sorta workable level of, general ball park kind of fairness right?
I mean, we cant expect a lot from cryptic, their mandate is simple,
star trek mmo for fans of star trek,
anyone that's a fan of the show can, log on for free, play for free, after a couple months get the ship they saw in the show they liked, and the pve content is so dialed down that, with little effort, and virtually no teamwork they can go charging out to defeat the queen of the borg and enjoy the glory of their own captains adventures- mission accomplished by cryptic, honestly, mission accomplished- its a excellent game for those that love star trek first and foremost and don't want to stress out about min/max that is common in major mmos
however,
they do have this thing called pvp in the game, NOW that's a different animal altogether, since we are not all working as a team to smash the computer, but split into 2 teams pitted to fight one another, NOW the rules matter, NOW the powers really matter, cause no one cares how big the crit is on the tac cube, no one crys for the cardassian ship blown up in the mission, BUT someone does care if its their ship that gets blown up, especially if there is a scoreboard keeping track and a team relying on you,
stress a bit higher, stakes a bit higher- build kind of matters there, SKILL of play matter a bit more
anyways, its the hardcore gamers vs the casual gamers song and dance, we will never see eye to eye- the only real point I ever wanted to get across to the causal pvers is that at the end of the day, the tweaks made to the powers for pvp, the tweaks to the ships, the tweaks to the consoles, at the end of the day DO NOT interfere AT ALL with their gameplay, they will still win infected, stop the borg queen, slam dunk the elanchi, and be back to the star base with plenty of time to do dress up Barbie on their toon for the billionth time LOL,
where all these small tweaks, HAVE MASSIVE effects in pvp gameplay- so, one side getting angry over nothing vs the other side NEEDING things done so that the game can be enjoyed fairly..
semi fairly,
sort of fairly...
ok, it will never be fair, sue me
What ship do you use for PVP ?
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I don't deserve that compliment, I am being really, really rude and she doesn't deserve it really, but,
everyones a bit angry nowadays, more so then before,
many of us pvper have had to wait.... months for any fixes, ANY
Actually, I probably *did* deserve it a bit. :P I tend to become somewhat unglued, especially when feeling ganged-up upon.
Anyway, Iconic Turbulence is a done deal; nothing I can do about it any more. I'm glad, at least, you helped make it possible for all involved to end on a half-way decent note.
Faeht it is a good ambusher true but mine is always killed by TBR3+iso cannon+TS3 combo
I consider it pays in this way for intel powers.
(I wonder what is new line of ships that will be launched to replace intel ships after SS3 nerf.)
I am flying it again now because I will try to see how is IT after nerf and because I have no other T6 escort to choose as kdf-romulan
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
(I wonder what is new line of ships that will be launched to replace intel ships after SS3 nerf.)
More to the point, for me, Will I still buy said new ship? Or will I finally have learned that Cryptic will inevitably pull the next 'Bait & Switch' on me, and soon nerf what new shininess I just bought? SS3 will be that litmus test for me, as Surgical Strikes was the only real reason to invest in Intel to begin with.
In a bitter twist of irony, at least they already made Command abilitie so weak, I will never have to suffer seeing *those* nerfed.
When Intel cheese came out the community quickly split in two sides: those who refused to use it and those who used it.
Those who rejected Intel were the veterans, also known as those who can excel even in disparity. Ionic was a guaranteed disable at all ranks. When that happened, the ship couldn't do anything, be disabled continuously, defensive abilities nullified. Death sentence. SS3, which keeps to be an issue but really the only one left could outdamage any hull by 4, 5, 6 times. Even worse was neutronic.
This brought to creation of growing private PvP matches organized under a specific set of rules that prevented Intel. However, when something is bad, the whole PvP community recognises it. Be careful, with PvP community I don't mean the sunday guys who give it a shot, ran broken and uncounterable things because they couldn't win otherwise. I mean those who participated in 10vs10 in OPVP, those from PvP fleets, they are the community and those who united in protest.
I said no to Intel cheese when my Scimitar erased the whole enemy team with a single Neutronic Spread and my Faeht could take out multiple targets in a row without scratching itself. Since things weren't acceptable, we protested. We gave proof and finally the devs looked into it, addressed it. I did PvE at first, I was in a fleet, but it wasn't fun. Many were cold, I could see how their gameplay time was boring, and so was mine. I left, and went in a PvP fleet. That's where I met new, awesome guys, introduced me to even more equally awesome guys. I learnt from them. What PvErs will never have is this kind of friendship, or taste the thrill of fighting someone you know and respect.
honey, going on as long as you have, for as many posts as you have done, I don't think annoyed is the right word
as to whats next? surgical? ya, it is- it is next, I use it, its sick, its awesome, its a bit... to awesome, I know many pvpers that would love to see that power nerfed into oblivion, I don't want that, I don't want that at all, I want all powers to have a use, all powers to be effective, but getting that much acc plus crit chance, is silly- its just silly, it needs to be turned down, but that's a discussion for another day (and that days a coming)
as for the rage and the ridicule, what we got here is two different tribes sharing the same island, now I think one tribe always gets what it wants, ALL THE TIME, and the other tribe gets a little bit from time to time, THE first tribe, cause its always use to having all the attention, gets angry whenever the second tribe gets any attention at all, the first tribe has no clue how to use have the things it has, but any time the second tribe gets a tweak to the use of just ONE of those things.. the first tribe sees it as a direct attack on its entire way of life (when in reality, the first tribe wasn't even really using those items in any meaningful way, and so the impact to the first tribe really isn't even something to be noticed), needless to say, both tribes are very frustrated with each other
anyways, bad simile, but the point im trying to make with this is: chill out, you were probably not even using it effectively in the first place and next week will be a brand new shiney to take you attention away that cryptic will provide, and a couple weeks from now you will be "ionic.. what..?"
finally, for your point on the disable feature, hey ya, that would be a great fix as well (and still needs to come, as in dialed back a hair, KEEP the disable, but just not so long locked out) anyways, great idea on your part- totally agree, keep the tracking, drop the lockout, all is happy and right as rain
I will throw another one out there for you, I have always been a fan of having effects in pve and DIFFERENT effects in pvp,
so say, make ionic in pve, track all targets out to range.... say 20k, shoots out in all directions, disables all targets in massive cloud for 30 seconds, awesome, cool, perfect- BUT in pvp, it doesn't track, its disable last TOPS 2-3 seconds, perfect, awesome-
this way, everyones happy, the pve players get the power they want (to help...them...I guess.. cause they need it to ...win *snicker I n f e c t e d) or WHATEVER they wish to fight, where ever they wish to fight, and then the pvpers get the god damn balance that is expected in a VIDEO GAME
again, wack up the powers, all of them, I don't care, give them effects in pve, and separate effects in pvp, AND I DONT CARE HOW OVERPOWERED THEY MAKE IT FOR PVE, don't care, not one bit, all pve is a joke and can be beaten with any ship, and level gear, and with a jacked boff layout WHILE NOT even paying attention to what your doing, SURE, give me a console that I can activate that just auto VAPES every sphere I bump my ship into, that
that,
at least.. THAT
would be mildly entertaining and challenging to do in pve content
You know, you had a great thing going until the Infected comment. Was that really necessary?
Lets re-visit your "tribes" analogy to shine a little light on why she's miffed (or at least why I am):
One tribe hunts animals for food, the others are cannibals that hunt and eat people. Animals are a lot easier to hunt because they're predictable, they're either gonna run or defend themselves. People are unpredictable and can turn the tables on you.
An invisible god in the sky just changed how a certain spear work because the second tribe kills people too easily with them, and the first use these spears, too. When the first complains, the second tribe calls them stupid for hunting sub-humans.
You see where I'm going with this, I hope. Every time a PvP change effects PvE in some negative way, there is always AND often a PvP player going "Boo hoo! You can't shoot computers as easily now! Learn to play, scrub."
We as a community don't need this, and it just makes your side of the community look like a bunch of *******s.
What still blows my mind is why the devs thought it was a good idea to introduce an uncounterable disable to players ships in the first place. Its almost as if they dont playtest things in a PvP atmosphere. They nerfed phaser procs because it could constantly disable systems, this ability 100 percent disables players. There shouldnt be any ability that totally disables players, everything should have a counter to it.
You know, you had a great thing going until the Infected comment. Was that really necessary?
Lets re-visit your "tribes" analogy to shine a little light on why she's miffed (or at least why I am):
One tribe hunts animals for food, the others are cannibals that hunt and eat people. Animals are a lot easier to hunt because they're predictable, they're either gonna run or defend themselves. People are unpredictable and can turn the tables on you.
An invisible god in the sky just changed how a certain spear work because the second tribe kills people too easily with them, and the first use these spears, too. When the first complains, the second tribe calls them stupid for hunting sub-humans.
You see where I'm going with this, I hope. Every time a PvP change effects PvE in some negative way, there is always AND often a PvP player going "Boo hoo! You can't shoot computers as easily now! Learn to play, scrub."
We as a community don't need this, and it just makes your side of the community look like a bunch of *******s.
This is by far worst analogy i have ever read.
You seriously qualified PvE as hunting animals and PvP as cannibalism and Cryptic as God?
Seriously?
This is by far worst analogy i have ever read.
You seriously qualified PvE as hunting animals and PvP as cannibalism and Cryptic as God?
Seriously?
It's kind of funny, not in a haha sense - that would apply to the way that particular analogy was offered, but funny in the sense of how it kind of actually does apply in a pseudo sort of need to rewrite parts of it and ignore the rest...er...
Predator and Prey.
Even if we generally don't think of ourselves as Predators, we don't think of ourselves as Prey. The Predatory instincts are still there, cause of the way we're wired...Hell, we're not out hunting our meat, but we're hunting the best price for the best cut, yeah? Those folks clipping coupons...those are modern age hunting techniques.
But yeah, we generally don't think of ourselves as Prey. Now, part of that is what allows a good horror movie or scary sci-fi movie sort of thing to do its thing in many cases, cause for that brief moment we might connect with the "heroes" in the story that have been made Prey by some other Predator. Boo, we jump, but then we go back to our regular lives.
So for some folks, that PvE thing - well, it's just a reassurance of sorts, we're the Alpha Predators...woot, woot, woot! Top of the food chain, ma!
PvP, though, reminds us that we're the Alpha Predators, though...and basically the only thing we're really Prey to is other people. That makes some folks uneasy; but face it, we're not locking our doors to keep out the lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Nope, we're locking our doors to keep each other out.
So PvE can be psychologically reassuring...
While PvP can be psychologically unnerving...
Doesn't need the cannibalistic bit to hold true, heh...
I personally don't care about Ionic Turbulance , but this was a good skill for pvp , as some1 mentioned in a earlier post it was a good CC for premade teams.
I had greater expectation from the PVP comunity , guys since you understand so much and better than the rest of us , the game mechanics you should realize by now that not the skills and new specializations are the reason for pvp imbalance .
I don't mind that you try to nerf some skills , but in your arrogance you will try to touch skills that works perfectly . The main reason that you guys get vaped in pvp is that weapons get a huge bonus after upgrading to MK XIV and to ultrarare/epic , than shield and defence consoles. What do shiels get from upgrading ...? a bonus capacity , regen and a random resitance to a type of damage , but nothing more , the resilience is still 10% , the bleedtrough remains the same , the way that damage reduction works , remain the same . Hull defence gets to little boost from upgrading allsow . But weapons get a large boost - damage / crth / crtd/ and most important accuracy. The damage increases with a exponential rate , but defence increases with a fixed rate , that leads to huge damage in pvp.
I understand that you dislike CC's but those skills are a part of gameplay , i understand that stoping you in pvp it lowers your "speed-defence" , but thats another part of gameplay , don't try to nerf that.
Next skills , that in your mind are broken , are SSIII , GW , feedback pulse, beam overload , and other. But those are all related to defence-damage proportion - SS III adds acc+crit chance , not that op , but combined with your fire power and accuracy , it deals alot of damage and you dont have the defence for it , - GW is nothing op about it , it just stops you = less defence , feedback ... just returns your damage.
PLEASE first look at whats really the cause of the imbalance , and after that ,request for nerfs, allsow when you request a nerf think about ALL rezults , it may be worse after the nerf than before. please stop thinking you are a genious if you can speed-tank and use some emergency powers , STO pvp is easy compared with other games with a much more complicated mechanic. Stop being so arogant , its no war between pve and pvp , but if you want one .... you might have it.
What still blows my mind is why the devs thought it was a good idea to introduce an uncounterable disable to players ships in the first place. Its almost as if they dont playtest things in a PvP atmosphere. They nerfed phaser procs because it could constantly disable systems, this ability 100 percent disables players. There shouldnt be any ability that totally disables players, everything should have a counter to it.
This here, I realize, is actually the reason I felt so upset in this thread. Not to the disable per se, although I totally agree with that, but the way Cryprtic operates.
Let's take Surgical Strikes, for example. When I first saw its stats, I knew I'd be able to make a wicked CtrD build with it. So, indeed, didn't the Devs?! When the Devs gave it +40% CrtH (for 10 secs), they did so ON PURPOSE. They're not idiots, are they?! It's like BO going full CrtH: almost the very next day they go like 'OMG! Our metrics told us people were using it with very high CrtD! We need to nerf it now!' Duh?!
And that is why I'm upset; cuz I feel another 'Bait & Switch' coming! Where they deliberately pull you in with very powerful stuff, only to give you a nerfed-into-oblivion version of it back, a few months down the road, when it's time to peddle the next Zen shiny. PvP-ers are, from their end, not necessarily wrong wanting these things nerfed; but, from my angle, are totally enabling Cryptic in their 'Bait & Switch' ploy. And that greatly fuels my irritation with Cryptic over this.
The disable falls into the same 'too good to be true' category, where they introduce an ability that 100% disables. Yeah, what PvP-er would not dream of that?! And then, a bit later, I get to hear it was all unintentional, and all needs to be undone again.
THINK, Cryptic, before you create abilities. And play the selling game fair.
Where are you askray? Please, close this thread :P
I totally forgot how to do the askray summon...
I think it's: Left, Left, Right, Down, A, Up, Left, Right, B.
Or is it: Left, Right, Left, Up, hold B for 5 seconds?
I'm so confused.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
Heh, all this talk about PvP...and I had to go back to Ker'rat to get blown up some. Most of the time it was a slideshow though, meh...or a partial slideshow. Could have a couple of guys zipping around smooth as butter and then there would be two guys just kind of stuttering across the screen. Any time they got near anybody else, they'd start rubberbanding on my screen. I was just sitting there dead...didn't want to respawn that last time it did it. Before that all started up though, man it was a blast getting blown up over and over (no, it's not some sick 'n twisted thing...heh, just compared to the flying around in circles of PvE, I enjoy actually facing getting blown up like that.)...so mucho thankos to the folks that shredded me, but I just couldn't take the mess that started when those two guys showed up and turned everything into /Dramamine. Wouldn't have believed it unless I was sitting there watching it, hadn't seen anything like it in years...
and nothing more manly then sneaking up on ...some..person and ..killing.? . . them?
ok, maybe not THAT manly
maybe more.. gutless?
I don't know, I did my tours of duty in the game as a fed for years, escorts, cruisers, sci ships
since t6, I wanted to go cloaker, try out the klink side of things, have a change of pace
its been fun
faehts a great ship:), great boff layout, cool options:)
He's holding onto that last piece of cheese. C'mon Cryptic, nerf the Acc & Crit or at the very least severely cap it when used against a player! You'll be doing the right thing that even this guy won't mind. He won't like it but he won't mind. Those of us who can get to max resist only to SS slice through it definitely won't mind either.
Torpedoes...
...risk the target being destroyed before the system registers the hit and applies the damage.
Mines...
...could end up sitting in the middle of nowhere doing nothing.
But like many other things, it requires a wee bit of thought now in how to apply it. Even a GW required some thought...target the first or the last, yeah? There are all sorts of thought processes and calculations going on for many folks, even if they're no longer aware of them - no longer consciously thinking of them. For some folks, they're unaware of what's going on so they neither think about it actively nor passively. That knowledge and experience at work...or that lack of knowledge and experience at work.
Our content isn't very dynamic - it's pretty static - you play it once, you've played it a thousand times. There aren't any surprises. It's one of the reasons that some give for PvE being boring compared to PvP. It's predictable.
It's like the arguments that take place before some of the PvE folks over that DPS from running something like ISA shouldn't matter, that it should be DPS from a target dummy. ISA is a target dummy...well, can be. If you run ISA with the same group or same type of group, then ISA is pretty much a target dummy. It allows folks to refine/tweak their builds...tada.
Which is also where some folks prefer to public pug things like ISA, because they're looking for some dynamic play - which the content cannot give them - but which other players can. Cause you're never quite sure who those four other guys are going to be, what they'll be bringing, nor what they're going to do...it can be exciting and challenging...though at the extreme, it can also be frustrating.
But in the end, you can pretty much look at any mob in the game and know how it's going to behave depending on the time into a run or based on the stimulus going on around them. Their AI is not state of the art.
With that, I guess could be why some folks are looking at this change and wondering what the Hell folks are talking about...they were already playing a certain way, they already had a certain amount of knowledge, etc, etc, etc.
Which in turn gets into that argument that can take place between folks...does it matter if one can get better or not in a game? Things like this present an opportunity for folks to improve - not through putting their nose to the grindstone, not through any sort of extreme effort or the like...Hell, basically just kind of through osmosis. But some folks are so adamant about not wanting to improve or even allowing passive opportunities to improve happen around them...that they'll put all sorts of massive work into fighting against it.
Oh well, eh? Different folks and all that, yeah?
Shhhh, Virus don't go giving them more ideas in their heads and, please correct the yellow # lol.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
Ionic Turbulence does two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
What has changed is the follow mechanic, right? Even with the follow angle, was it effective crowd control? It's chance based. Previously you could drop out an Ionic Turbulence that would go right to the target or group of targets...and...it wouldn't disable a one. They'd just keep on flying along.
It previously worked best against stationary targets or targets that were otherwise already crowd controlled. That hasn't changed.
It's still nifty for somebody that's cycling APB/APO to drop out during their APO phase...or for somebody that does not have any other form of debuffing damage resistance or wants some additional debuffing of damage resistance.
It seems, imho, that both certain members of the PvP and PvE communities are treating it as if Ionic Turbulence wasn't chance based and was some sort of awesome crowd control ability.
For me, it was a simple case of it doing one thing while the tooltip said something else. So there would have been two potential fixes to satisfy my personal complaint about it:
1) Change it to work like the tooltip.
2) Change the tooltip to how it works.
Cause in neither PvP nor PvE, imho, was the follow a big deal. Actually, in PvP I saw it as a disadvantage for the person using it - cause they'd end up telegraphing their attacks, dropping it out early and letting their intended target know there was an attack coming...thus giving them the opportunity to prepare for said attack. Not much different than folks that would telegraph their vapes by hitting their Tractor Beams too early.
Have to wonder how many folks died in an Ionic AoE without ever being held by it...but complained that it was Ionic that did it? Cause you know, there was the whole chained Viral Torp thing as well as working in the Plasma/Phaser Lance consoles with the ability to disable...so it was entirely possible to chainstun 100-0 somebody without the Ionic hold ever triggering. But what Ionic did add, was some hull damage resistance debuffing for when the OSS boosted SS started shredding hull of that disabled target.
To be blunt, imho most folks have no clue what actually killed them. "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!"...when the combat log shows they took damage for 10-12 seconds and a video would show there was all sorts of buff/debuff counterplay taking place. It's just /facepalm.
Thought it was trippy that Cryptic added the Toggle Damage History to try to help folks out with that...and folks still complained it was "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!" - lol/meh.
But yeah, anyway - personally, I just wanted the tooltip/ability to match up one way or the other...they did that. So I'm a happy camper, would have been a happy camper if they'd changed the tooltip instead. Either way would have worked...
Well, as far as CC ability, it actually worked great without the need of a GW, I could pop one of these in the front (as in first probe in line) of some probes say in KASA and, watch the probes go haywire (all of them, because they fly in a single filed line, leading them right into the front runner).
Heck, even timed well in ISA, I could effect multiples of sphere as well, when a GW wasn't available atm because it is on CD for someone.
Now, yes it is still a viable skill but, made much harder in targeting strategies is all.
Comments
Annoyed, more like.
And what's next? Surgical Strikes? People are already gleefully lining up for yet the next nerf.
I am in the 99% of the playerbase: I am a PvE-er. I have never ever tried to take anything away from anyone. People want their OP Scims?! Let them have them! They want fancy Intel ships? Sure, go buy them! PvP-ers, on the other hand, are always looking for nerfs (that drag everyone else down too).
If anything, I'm seeing blind rage, and ridicule, at PvE-ers, for daring to say they don't want that 1% of the playerbase to get them nerfed all the time.
And, as I keep saying, and which you keep ignoring, I've always been entirely against the disable component of IT. All they had to do was remove that, for PvP, and nobody would have been 'locked out' horribly any more, ever.
In my opinion IT was perfect weapon for a lonely tac against the sci from a premade team.
Like 2-3 sci ships in a premade halting everybody and anything with TBR3+FBPx2+EWP+Danubes.
You could hit them from far away and avoid EWP/TBR/danube spam or TDF snooping .
In my opinion hitting them with "broken" IT IIII was fair retribution for them playing premade and it gave a little chance to a PUG team to win against a premade.
With IT III nerf ,in my opinion, Sci won this time and all tacs running T6 loose but that is life after all.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Thank you for answering.I didn't know the figures I just noticed the facts and how IT became less effective as it was at first.So actually now it is at least the second "adjustment" to IT in fact.
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I actually felt like standing up and applauding. What a brilliant post.
^^ Your post made me smile.
And we appear to agree on something I've been a long-time proponent of as wel: different stats for PvP and PvE. In a staggering case of Ironic Turbulence, actually some of the Intel powers (like Evade Target Lock) were already showing signs of Cryptic accomplishing just that! I wish they had continued on that path, though.
As for tribes, come on over to the fun side of the island, where us PvE-ers live!
really, whoever cries about ionic FIXED: l2p :P. thx.
Nerf Galors, Buff Scimitars!
...but don't u ever touch my b'rel, it's op by nature!!! those muscles didn't need any di-anabol!
What ship do you use for PVP ?
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Actually, I probably *did* deserve it a bit. :P I tend to become somewhat unglued, especially when feeling ganged-up upon.
Anyway, Iconic Turbulence is a done deal; nothing I can do about it any more. I'm glad, at least, you helped make it possible for all involved to end on a half-way decent note.
I consider it pays in this way for intel powers.
(I wonder what is new line of ships that will be launched to replace intel ships after SS3 nerf.)
I am flying it again now because I will try to see how is IT after nerf and because I have no other T6 escort to choose as kdf-romulan
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
More to the point, for me, Will I still buy said new ship? Or will I finally have learned that Cryptic will inevitably pull the next 'Bait & Switch' on me, and soon nerf what new shininess I just bought? SS3 will be that litmus test for me, as Surgical Strikes was the only real reason to invest in Intel to begin with.
In a bitter twist of irony, at least they already made Command abilitie so weak, I will never have to suffer seeing *those* nerfed.
When Intel cheese came out the community quickly split in two sides: those who refused to use it and those who used it.
Those who rejected Intel were the veterans, also known as those who can excel even in disparity. Ionic was a guaranteed disable at all ranks. When that happened, the ship couldn't do anything, be disabled continuously, defensive abilities nullified. Death sentence. SS3, which keeps to be an issue but really the only one left could outdamage any hull by 4, 5, 6 times. Even worse was neutronic.
This brought to creation of growing private PvP matches organized under a specific set of rules that prevented Intel. However, when something is bad, the whole PvP community recognises it. Be careful, with PvP community I don't mean the sunday guys who give it a shot, ran broken and uncounterable things because they couldn't win otherwise. I mean those who participated in 10vs10 in OPVP, those from PvP fleets, they are the community and those who united in protest.
I said no to Intel cheese when my Scimitar erased the whole enemy team with a single Neutronic Spread and my Faeht could take out multiple targets in a row without scratching itself. Since things weren't acceptable, we protested. We gave proof and finally the devs looked into it, addressed it. I did PvE at first, I was in a fleet, but it wasn't fun. Many were cold, I could see how their gameplay time was boring, and so was mine. I left, and went in a PvP fleet. That's where I met new, awesome guys, introduced me to even more equally awesome guys. I learnt from them. What PvErs will never have is this kind of friendship, or taste the thrill of fighting someone you know and respect.
You know, you had a great thing going until the Infected comment. Was that really necessary?
Lets re-visit your "tribes" analogy to shine a little light on why she's miffed (or at least why I am):
One tribe hunts animals for food, the others are cannibals that hunt and eat people. Animals are a lot easier to hunt because they're predictable, they're either gonna run or defend themselves. People are unpredictable and can turn the tables on you.
An invisible god in the sky just changed how a certain spear work because the second tribe kills people too easily with them, and the first use these spears, too. When the first complains, the second tribe calls them stupid for hunting sub-humans.
You see where I'm going with this, I hope. Every time a PvP change effects PvE in some negative way, there is always AND often a PvP player going "Boo hoo! You can't shoot computers as easily now! Learn to play, scrub."
We as a community don't need this, and it just makes your side of the community look like a bunch of *******s.
You seriously qualified PvE as hunting animals and PvP as cannibalism and Cryptic as God?
Seriously?
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
It's kind of funny, not in a haha sense - that would apply to the way that particular analogy was offered, but funny in the sense of how it kind of actually does apply in a pseudo sort of need to rewrite parts of it and ignore the rest...er...
Predator and Prey.
Even if we generally don't think of ourselves as Predators, we don't think of ourselves as Prey. The Predatory instincts are still there, cause of the way we're wired...Hell, we're not out hunting our meat, but we're hunting the best price for the best cut, yeah? Those folks clipping coupons...those are modern age hunting techniques.
But yeah, we generally don't think of ourselves as Prey. Now, part of that is what allows a good horror movie or scary sci-fi movie sort of thing to do its thing in many cases, cause for that brief moment we might connect with the "heroes" in the story that have been made Prey by some other Predator. Boo, we jump, but then we go back to our regular lives.
So for some folks, that PvE thing - well, it's just a reassurance of sorts, we're the Alpha Predators...woot, woot, woot! Top of the food chain, ma!
PvP, though, reminds us that we're the Alpha Predators, though...and basically the only thing we're really Prey to is other people. That makes some folks uneasy; but face it, we're not locking our doors to keep out the lions and tigers and bears, oh my! Nope, we're locking our doors to keep each other out.
So PvE can be psychologically reassuring...
While PvP can be psychologically unnerving...
Doesn't need the cannibalistic bit to hold true, heh...
But, but, but...the thread is so entertaining.
I had greater expectation from the PVP comunity , guys since you understand so much and better than the rest of us , the game mechanics you should realize by now that not the skills and new specializations are the reason for pvp imbalance .
I don't mind that you try to nerf some skills , but in your arrogance you will try to touch skills that works perfectly . The main reason that you guys get vaped in pvp is that weapons get a huge bonus after upgrading to MK XIV and to ultrarare/epic , than shield and defence consoles. What do shiels get from upgrading ...? a bonus capacity , regen and a random resitance to a type of damage , but nothing more , the resilience is still 10% , the bleedtrough remains the same , the way that damage reduction works , remain the same . Hull defence gets to little boost from upgrading allsow . But weapons get a large boost - damage / crth / crtd/ and most important accuracy. The damage increases with a exponential rate , but defence increases with a fixed rate , that leads to huge damage in pvp.
I understand that you dislike CC's but those skills are a part of gameplay , i understand that stoping you in pvp it lowers your "speed-defence" , but thats another part of gameplay , don't try to nerf that.
Next skills , that in your mind are broken , are SSIII , GW , feedback pulse, beam overload , and other. But those are all related to defence-damage proportion - SS III adds acc+crit chance , not that op , but combined with your fire power and accuracy , it deals alot of damage and you dont have the defence for it , - GW is nothing op about it , it just stops you = less defence , feedback ... just returns your damage.
PLEASE first look at whats really the cause of the imbalance , and after that ,request for nerfs, allsow when you request a nerf think about ALL rezults , it may be worse after the nerf than before. please stop thinking you are a genious if you can speed-tank and use some emergency powers , STO pvp is easy compared with other games with a much more complicated mechanic. Stop being so arogant , its no war between pve and pvp , but if you want one .... you might have it.
This here, I realize, is actually the reason I felt so upset in this thread. Not to the disable per se, although I totally agree with that, but the way Cryprtic operates.
Let's take Surgical Strikes, for example. When I first saw its stats, I knew I'd be able to make a wicked CtrD build with it. So, indeed, didn't the Devs?! When the Devs gave it +40% CrtH (for 10 secs), they did so ON PURPOSE. They're not idiots, are they?! It's like BO going full CrtH: almost the very next day they go like 'OMG! Our metrics told us people were using it with very high CrtD! We need to nerf it now!' Duh?!
And that is why I'm upset; cuz I feel another 'Bait & Switch' coming! Where they deliberately pull you in with very powerful stuff, only to give you a nerfed-into-oblivion version of it back, a few months down the road, when it's time to peddle the next Zen shiny. PvP-ers are, from their end, not necessarily wrong wanting these things nerfed; but, from my angle, are totally enabling Cryptic in their 'Bait & Switch' ploy. And that greatly fuels my irritation with Cryptic over this.
The disable falls into the same 'too good to be true' category, where they introduce an ability that 100% disables. Yeah, what PvP-er would not dream of that?! And then, a bit later, I get to hear it was all unintentional, and all needs to be undone again.
THINK, Cryptic, before you create abilities. And play the selling game fair.
I totally forgot how to do the askray summon...
I think it's: Left, Left, Right, Down, A, Up, Left, Right, B.
Or is it: Left, Right, Left, Up, hold B for 5 seconds?
I'm so confused.
He's holding onto that last piece of cheese. C'mon Cryptic, nerf the Acc & Crit or at the very least severely cap it when used against a player! You'll be doing the right thing that even this guy won't mind. He won't like it but he won't mind. Those of us who can get to max resist only to SS slice through it definitely won't mind either.
Shhhh, Virus don't go giving them more ideas in their heads and, please correct the yellow # lol.
Well, as far as CC ability, it actually worked great without the need of a GW, I could pop one of these in the front (as in first probe in line) of some probes say in KASA and, watch the probes go haywire (all of them, because they fly in a single filed line, leading them right into the front runner).
Heck, even timed well in ISA, I could effect multiples of sphere as well, when a GW wasn't available atm because it is on CD for someone.
Now, yes it is still a viable skill but, made much harder in targeting strategies is all.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!