Alright then how would you feel about torpedoes requiring you aim? I mean how unfair is it that someone can just turn their ship in the general direction of you and slam you with torpedoes that were self-guided?
What about beam arrays? Theres definitely no sort of required aiming there besides getting withing 10k of your enemy.
But its nice to see instead of actually responding to me youre accusing me of throwing a temper tantrum. When this entire time Ive been civil with you. And if you feel as if I hurt your feelings because I called PvPers in this thread out for their less then respectable behavior. If the shoe fits.
Right now its not me thats stomping my feet and getting upset for not getting my way. But when you lower yourself to attacking someone youre debating. Thats definitely a temper tantrum.
I think this is an excellent idea. It would certainly add some excitement to PvE.
Imagine having to manually aim at a target in order to hit it with torpedoes. No more auto hits for torpedoes, they can be dodged now. Even better would be to do the same for beams as well as remove the ability to autofire. Change Beam fire at will so it only hits targets that you click on during the weapon firing cycle. It would be like an in combat mini game, and everyone likes minigames, right?
NPC's should be able to stack and chain abilities like players, like using gravity well, ionic turbulance, and torp spread, while using an attack pattern (oh, and lets not forget that viral torpedo). They should also be able to benefit from doff like powers as well. It's just a script, right? I wonder why they (Cryptic) don't do that? :rolleyes:
Let's give NPCs all these fun abilities too. It would make PvE much more entertaining. (Well, on the forums at least)
Torps and beam arrays can miss, and there's a myriad of ways to soak their damage. Call for an unguided torpedo when there's one that completely renders the target useless for the duration of it's effect.
You're telling everyone that IT is completely useless in PvE when it's simply not true and is still quite effective despite its lack of locking-on, despite the fact that said locking-on has made it god-mode versus players.
Should there have been a better way to handle it? Sure, but the current solution has come nowhere close to crippling it's usefulness.
If Im making things up then so are you. Take a good hard look at your argument here.
Im stating that people are going to abandon this ability for something more reliable. That makes this ability useless. Im sure someone who doesnt understand the difference between one ability from the next will still use it. But anyone in PvE with half a brain is going to step away from one ability when something else performs better. The only time this ability is going to find any use is against very large solo enemies, very slow moving enemies or large clusters. All of which can be easily taken care of with things like GW.
And in regards to PvP. Its also useless. How many people are going to slot that when they have something else they can put in its place and actually count on?
Torpedoes might miss on occassion but in general they still follow their targets. And with beams Starship Targetting Systems Skill and [ACC] keeps you from missing too much. The lower the enemies Defense the more hits youre guaranteed to connect. If youre a PvPer you should know that. It was the first lesson I got stepping into PvP back when the game was still fresh out the box.
Funny enough youre still clinging on to that obviously skewed comment from mustrim earlier. Which means were going in circles. Youre free to youre opinion but dont kid yourself that one person firing this ability off into a crowd and gaining a hit makes this ability useful.
Ok sure, they could've come at with a different angle.
But I dont see the big deal, its just the tracking that's been changed.
And (I have to test this myself, since mustcrums test data is not good enough for some)
But my first impressions are it won't miss much at all on pve targets.
Thanks, it never hurts if a few more people validate it.
But in the end... It probably doesn't matter. The people that already made up their mind won't try it in the first place - imagine the horror of being wrong. And the rest will see for themselves.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
PvP community got this skill nerfed (for good reason). And by God I'm proud of them.
And tip my hat.
No more loser cloak/Torp builds (I'm looking at you Romulans) exploiting disables for easy kills, then cloaking off into the sunset unscathed.
Well, I suppose only the good pilots will be able to handle using it effectively now, that I can live with.
At least the cookie cutter builders will now be SOL.
*A standing ovation for the PvP community who stood together to get this OP skill nerfed*
Ill be buying them drinks for the next week.
Who wants a cold one ?
Thank you bro.
I'd take a cold drink, and drop in OPVP sometimes, we have drinks there as well. And, most importantly, cookies!
People were killing each other just fine before Ionic Turbulence was introduced into the game, bugged and untested, by developers working to a deadline.
Pvpers couldn't adapt, and since they are the only ones that matter. :mad:
1v1 my "unadapted" Aventine.
or the PvEr is too afraid to get rekt?
PvErs in these thread should just shut up. The Borg would not attack them as they'd drive them away from perfection, the Kazon would offer assistance, Klingons wouldn't see in them a honorable challenge, Hirogen would mark them unworthy preys, the Vaadwaur would have killed them when they still had 800 years old ships, Iconians would prove mercy.
Temporal ships would erase them from timeline ad they have no place in our time.
Oh yeah... combine it with an ability that must already be effectively crowd controlling the enemy so it can hit... and extra super crowd control them... Dunno why I didn't think of that. -.-
In pvp, that tactic would be useless because gravity well and the like are generally shrugged off. And sure.. cc and anything non-damage needs to be super situational and require heaps of coordination so most can just choose DPS for the win as usual.
In pve, if the enemy is already effectively crowd controlled, one generally doesn't need to double up on that. Can one potentially extend the controlling of a crowd say when grav well ends by catching them in ionic turbulence before they have a chance to leave? Perhaps they might, but there we go back to making non-DPS super situational and prone to failure where DPS is pretty much fool proof.
While I partly agree with this...having to use 2 CC abilities so 1 is affective...also gotta remember besides the CC it also have a damage resistance debuff...unless they got rid of that and I didn't see it?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I can't believe my eyes... one of the main things that killed PVP has been attended too and reading this thread even some PVPers are not happy. WTH? Out of all the threads I expected to see I never thought I would see people advocating for a return to the cheesey environment this ability spawned.
PvPed with fellow mates yesterday, hell yeah if it's playable now. Neutronic Spread now barely scratches me if shields are up, viral stun is sort of acceptable now (still no immunity for stacking disables.
Yesterday's matches were most enjoyable, especially when my team won a 3v6 C&H after half of my team had to warp out.
Torpedoes...
...risk the target being destroyed before the system registers the hit and applies the damage.
Mines...
...could end up sitting in the middle of nowhere doing nothing.
But like many other things, it requires a wee bit of thought now in how to apply it. Even a GW required some thought...target the first or the last, yeah? There are all sorts of thought processes and calculations going on for many folks, even if they're no longer aware of them - no longer consciously thinking of them. For some folks, they're unaware of what's going on so they neither think about it actively nor passively. That knowledge and experience at work...or that lack of knowledge and experience at work.
Our content isn't very dynamic - it's pretty static - you play it once, you've played it a thousand times. There aren't any surprises. It's one of the reasons that some give for PvE being boring compared to PvP. It's predictable.
It's like the arguments that take place before some of the PvE folks over that DPS from running something like ISA shouldn't matter, that it should be DPS from a target dummy. ISA is a target dummy...well, can be. If you run ISA with the same group or same type of group, then ISA is pretty much a target dummy. It allows folks to refine/tweak their builds...tada.
Which is also where some folks prefer to public pug things like ISA, because they're looking for some dynamic play - which the content cannot give them - but which other players can. Cause you're never quite sure who those four other guys are going to be, what they'll be bringing, nor what they're going to do...it can be exciting and challenging...though at the extreme, it can also be frustrating.
But in the end, you can pretty much look at any mob in the game and know how it's going to behave depending on the time into a run or based on the stimulus going on around them. Their AI is not state of the art.
With that, I guess could be why some folks are looking at this change and wondering what the Hell folks are talking about...they were already playing a certain way, they already had a certain amount of knowledge, etc, etc, etc.
Which in turn gets into that argument that can take place between folks...does it matter if one can get better or not in a game? Things like this present an opportunity for folks to improve - not through putting their nose to the grindstone, not through any sort of extreme effort or the like...Hell, basically just kind of through osmosis. But some folks are so adamant about not wanting to improve or even allowing passive opportunities to improve happen around them...that they'll put all sorts of massive work into fighting against it.
Few extra keystrokes? No it would have diminished effects on player(s) is all and, yes they could do it if they wanted.
They just preferred the easy way out and, simply make it harder to use against quick moving targets.
I don't pvp at all but, trying to range a sphere with this ability is actually difficult along with probes.
Up close it isn't a problem but, who wants to always have to get in tight when it isn't necessary?
I know
however it wasn't a good skill choice for PvE in the first place and a lot less now , If anything it needed a buff
It simply shows how much the Devs know their own game
It was Meh for us ( PvE ) and deadly to the PvP crowd so instead of fixing it its gets the universal nerf
some user of it will have to say if its still a decent skill in PvP , But its a flop skill in PvE and is replaced on my ships
business as usual
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
dude, you have no clue what your talking about at all LOL, i mean it- at all period!
your here just trolling right? thats it, its gotta be it
to say you cant land ionic in pve is to say you cant fly your ship at your target and at 4k fire it off and laugh as it lands on your target and you use an evasive to swing the ship for the broadside or just stay nose on for the cannons
I mean, how much more easiser can it get? OH WAIT thats right, it was easier, you just had to push the button without thinking and it would go do the work for you,
your one of those "everything tied to spacebar" guys arnt you?
Bla, bla, bla. You'd be the first to cry like a baby when they removed the chase from torps.
Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all ecstatic because you got your inside man Bort doing your bidding; but could you at least keep the trolling down a bit?
however it wasn't a good skill choice for PvE in the first place and a lot less now , If anything it needed a buff
It simply shows how much the Devs know their own game
It was Meh for us ( PvE ) and deadly to the PvP crowd so instead of fixing it its gets the universal nerf
some user of it will have to say if its still a decent skill in PvP , But its a flop skill in PvE and is replaced on my ships
business as usual
I thought it was a pretty decent debuffer for PvE (kinda like APB for Intel). As for PvP, all that was needed was to remove the disable from it. Instead, they went completely overboard, removing the chase as well. And believe me, if you ever saw a PvP-er scream red before, they'd be doing so at the top of their lungs if they gave torps the same treatment.
But in here it's the same as in the real-world: squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Everything starts with torps. (well...maybe some of the lockbox ships don't), it's a core skill, it's on your character sheet, and you CAN miss with a High Yeild or ordinary shot.
I.T. pre-patch didn't miss, didn't have a skill 'to hit' you activated it, and it hit, period.
It was limited to a specific type of ship-the Tier Six intel ships.
There's no "Ionic Skill" in your character page, it didn't rely on any of your existing skills to work.
It could not be debuffed, cleared, or escaped before. I've escaped "hits" with torps, at least long enough to regain shields and filter down the damage. there was none of that with I.T.
It hits automatically, your power tray goes gray and you bounce around while you're being shot.
that was the whole reason it was BROKEN.
No resist. no escape, no cleanse, and no cooldown/immunity.
NONE of that matters to an NPC. NPC's don't have a tray, they don't suffer debuffs the way players do, they don't rely on buffs and tray powers for survivability, their resistance doesn't factor because they ahve so many hitpoints at mid and high levels that such things are irrelevant.
so...the Devs took away the auto-hit feature, now you have to have your target selected and you nave to keep the shot within a range that will snare the target, because the pulse can be evaded-against NPC this doesn't matter-they don't evade, it still works pretty much as before against NPC's .
the change only impacts PvP, which WAS suffering from autohit-disable, aka "Win Button" mechanics with this power.
^^ You made a very reasonable post. Can't really argue with that: the disable should never have existed in the first place. A player should always be able to clear *everything*. Even subnuke can be cleared. (Out of sheer curiosity, was Enhanced Predictive Algorithms able to remove the disable? I know it debuffs randomly, but still)
Anyway, thanks for your good post! The die is cast now; and I would have preferred a diferent solution; but way it is is the way it is, I suppose.
But its a flop skill in PvE and is replaced on my ships
Ionic Turbulence did two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
Ionic Turbulence does two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
What has changed is the follow mechanic, right? Even with the follow angle, was it effective crowd control? It's chance based. Previously you could drop out an Ionic Turbulence that would go right to the target or group of targets...and...it wouldn't disable a one. They'd just keep on flying along.
It previously worked best against stationary targets or targets that were otherwise already crowd controlled. That hasn't changed.
It's still nifty for somebody that's cycling APB/APO to drop out during their APO phase...or for somebody that does not have any other form of debuffing damage resistance or wants some additional debuffing of damage resistance.
It seems, imho, that both certain members of the PvP and PvE communities are treating it as if Ionic Turbulence wasn't chance based and was some sort of awesome crowd control ability.
For me, it was a simple case of it doing one thing while the tooltip said something else. So there would have been two potential fixes to satisfy my personal complaint about it:
1) Change it to work like the tooltip.
2) Change the tooltip to how it works.
Cause in neither PvP nor PvE, imho, was the follow a big deal. Actually, in PvP I saw it as a disadvantage for the person using it - cause they'd end up telegraphing their attacks, dropping it out early and letting their intended target know there was an attack coming...thus giving them the opportunity to prepare for said attack. Not much different than folks that would telegraph their vapes by hitting their Tractor Beams too early.
Have to wonder how many folks died in an Ionic AoE without ever being held by it...but complained that it was Ionic that did it? Cause you know, there was the whole chained Viral Torp thing as well as working in the Plasma/Phaser Lance consoles with the ability to disable...so it was entirely possible to chainstun 100-0 somebody without the Ionic hold ever triggering. But what Ionic did add, was some hull damage resistance debuffing for when the OSS boosted SS started shredding hull of that disabled target.
To be blunt, imho most folks have no clue what actually killed them. "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!"...when the combat log shows they took damage for 10-12 seconds and a video would show there was all sorts of buff/debuff counterplay taking place. It's just /facepalm.
Thought it was trippy that Cryptic added the Toggle Damage History to try to help folks out with that...and folks still complained it was "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!" - lol/meh.
But yeah, anyway - personally, I just wanted the tooltip/ability to match up one way or the other...they did that. So I'm a happy camper, would have been a happy camper if they'd changed the tooltip instead. Either way would have worked...
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
Ionic Turbulence does two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
You know by chance what affects this chance to disable ?
(As I said many times I stoped using IT a log time ago after I noticed that it wasn't affecting 3-4 top PVP-ers I had to fight on arena.It was long before last nerf and I didn't understood why sci and eng were affected but those tac weren't.)
Hmm probably i will have to slot IT again to make some tests .
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
heres a thought, your fckd in the head,
yup
fckd in the head,
if you cant see how your behaving is directly connected to the responses your getting or the out landish "if ionic loses tracking..well...er...THEN EVERYTHING SHOULD LOSE IT TOO!!1!!" LOL
Yeah, gonna skip all the ranty ad hominems here for a moment, and just drill to the bedrock of what seems like you making an attempt at an argument here.
I've been witnessing some ridiculous grandstanding over people spacebarring, being horrible pilots, etc. -- well, you know, pretty much what you're doing in this reply too. All whilst I keep reminding you, that PvP-ers would be extremely upset if, say, torps lost their tracking too. And you know I'm right, of course. Naturally you can never admt that, as you wanted the tracking removed, so you just derise and resort to name-calling towards those who actually used the ability, as if losing tracking on a weapon is no big deal.
heres a thought, your fckd in the head,
yup
fckd in the head,
if you cant see how your behaving is directly connected to the responses your getting or the out landish "if ionic loses tracking..well...er...THEN EVERYTHING SHOULD LOSE IT TOO!!1!!" LOL
(As I said many times I stoped using IT a log time ago after I noticed that it wasn't affecting 3-4 top PVP-ers I had to fight on arena.It was long before last nerf and I didn't understood why sci and eng were affected but those tac weren't.)
See this, all you pathetic cry-babies?! Apparently real PvP-ers *were* able to defend themselves against Ionic Turbulence just fine! Hahaha! I'm laughing so hard now. Y'all went crying to mommy, begging for a nerf; whereas all you had to do was improve your game!
I have no idea how they did it; after all, I'm not a PvP-er; but, boy, did they make you whiners look like fools or what!?
See this, all you pathetic cry-babies?! Apparently real PvP-ers *were* able to defend themselves against Ionic Turbulence just fine! Hahaha! I'm laughing so hard now. Y'all went crying to mommy, begging for a nerf; whereas all you had to do was improve your game!
I have no idea how they did it; after all, I'm not a PvP-er; but, boy, did they make you whiners look like fools or what!?
Ahahahahahahahhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahah ahahhaahhahahaaahahahahahahhahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahaahhahahahahahaha ahhahaahhahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahaha haahahhahahhah more like these please
You know by chance what affects this chance to disable ?
(As I said many times I stoped using IT a log time ago after I noticed that it wasn't affecting 3-4 top PVP-ers I had to fight on arena.It was long before last nerf and I didn't understood why sci and eng were affected but those tac weren't.)
Hmm probably i will have to slot IT again to make some tests .
The chance itself to Hold + Repel...
IT1's 20% per sec.
IT2's 30% per sec.
IT3's 40% per sec.
Might be a personal bias, but I see Tacs as being zippier than Eng or Sci. Doesn't matter what they're flying, they just seem relatively zippier. Heh, a Tac in a D'deridex vs. an Eng in a D'deridex - I'm just going to expect one of them is going to be moving a bit zippier than the other.
One is simply not going to be in the field as long as the other and not subject to as many rolls. Even if they're hit by a Viral Torp, it's not stopping them - they'll keep moving on out of the field.
Back in October, they changed the chance from 20% to 20%, 35% to 30%, and 50% to 40%. They increased the immunity period from 6s to 10s. They reduced the amount of "repel" by 20%.
That last part would have helped some of the ziipier folks not lose their momentum.
There was a thread discussing counters to Ionic/Viral Torpedo/etc...where the key issue, imho, was the overall lack of an immunity period actually applying from any of it. Multiple folks dropping out Ionics and the Viral Torp spam issue just meant chained stuns. It got into HE/ET applications, both ET->HE and outside HE sort of things...but Gather Intel (including the full stack from the Phaser/Plasma Lances) and Sci could just make a mockery of it.
But at the same time, if somebody dropped out an Ionic from a day away - it left far too much time to think of the best potential counter for it. Lol, even the goofy Trajector Jump just as it hit could turn a death moment into a neeneer moment.
Tacs though...I just always saw them more as zipping around, so even if they got hit - they'd be on their way. With their higher defense, they'd also be subject less to the Viral Torps and landing those Lance consoles.
Would get into that combination of SNB, Intel Lance Console, VM, Particle Emission Torp, Ionic, EMP...and yeah, some other things...making them the sitting target for somebody else to have their way with them.
While Eng/Sci, tending to be in those slower vessels - even somebody in a Wells was moving slow compared to Tacs zipping around in whatever they received in the mail from the Escort-of-the-Month Club. Hell, the way some would move their Cruisers would put Eng/Sci to shame in Escorts.
Guess I'm rambling all over the place here, but yeah - it was something that I definitely noticed; but I guess I just always attributed it to speed...that bias...Tacs fly around faster sort of thing.
I can't recall the discussion on the role that APO/AtD played in it, because the whole thing was muddied by that combination of Ionic, Viral Torp, and even the Gather Intel stuff....
Did anybody actually ever run the EPtE Control Resistance DOFF? Reckless Abandon's Evasive Maneuvers immunity to movement stuff? Does Boost Morale provide that CoT for it. CoT? Lol, DoT (Damage), HoT (Heal), CoT (Cleanse)...CoT? That just...meh, I need more caffeine and a smoke...wtf have I been babbling about there. :P
Comments
You would think . . . You would be wrong. Yesterday I Ran a pug (I know, I know) and the Kobali cruiser was too good to worry himself with cc.
I think this is an excellent idea. It would certainly add some excitement to PvE.
Imagine having to manually aim at a target in order to hit it with torpedoes. No more auto hits for torpedoes, they can be dodged now. Even better would be to do the same for beams as well as remove the ability to autofire. Change Beam fire at will so it only hits targets that you click on during the weapon firing cycle. It would be like an in combat mini game, and everyone likes minigames, right?
NPC's should be able to stack and chain abilities like players, like using gravity well, ionic turbulance, and torp spread, while using an attack pattern (oh, and lets not forget that viral torpedo). They should also be able to benefit from doff like powers as well. It's just a script, right? I wonder why they (Cryptic) don't do that? :rolleyes:
Let's give NPCs all these fun abilities too. It would make PvE much more entertaining. (Well, on the forums at least)
If Im making things up then so are you. Take a good hard look at your argument here.
Im stating that people are going to abandon this ability for something more reliable. That makes this ability useless. Im sure someone who doesnt understand the difference between one ability from the next will still use it. But anyone in PvE with half a brain is going to step away from one ability when something else performs better. The only time this ability is going to find any use is against very large solo enemies, very slow moving enemies or large clusters. All of which can be easily taken care of with things like GW.
And in regards to PvP. Its also useless. How many people are going to slot that when they have something else they can put in its place and actually count on?
Torpedoes might miss on occassion but in general they still follow their targets. And with beams Starship Targetting Systems Skill and [ACC] keeps you from missing too much. The lower the enemies Defense the more hits youre guaranteed to connect. If youre a PvPer you should know that. It was the first lesson I got stepping into PvP back when the game was still fresh out the box.
Funny enough youre still clinging on to that obviously skewed comment from mustrim earlier. Which means were going in circles. Youre free to youre opinion but dont kid yourself that one person firing this ability off into a crowd and gaining a hit makes this ability useful.
But in the end... It probably doesn't matter. The people that already made up their mind won't try it in the first place - imagine the horror of being wrong. And the rest will see for themselves.
Thank you bro.
I'd take a cold drink, and drop in OPVP sometimes, we have drinks there as well. And, most importantly, cookies!
fixed. lal.
Stop crying about it, move on.
Free Tibet!
1v1 my "unadapted" Aventine.
or the PvEr is too afraid to get rekt?
PvErs in these thread should just shut up. The Borg would not attack them as they'd drive them away from perfection, the Kazon would offer assistance, Klingons wouldn't see in them a honorable challenge, Hirogen would mark them unworthy preys, the Vaadwaur would have killed them when they still had 800 years old ships, Iconians would prove mercy.
Temporal ships would erase them from timeline ad they have no place in our time.
While I partly agree with this...having to use 2 CC abilities so 1 is affective...also gotta remember besides the CC it also have a damage resistance debuff...unless they got rid of that and I didn't see it?
Few extra keystrokes? No it would have diminished effects on player(s) is all and, yes they could do it if they wanted.
They just preferred the easy way out and, simply make it harder to use against quick moving targets.
I don't pvp at all but, trying to range a sphere with this ability is actually difficult along with probes.
Up close it isn't a problem but, who wants to always have to get in tight when it isn't necessary?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yesterday's matches were most enjoyable, especially when my team won a 3v6 C&H after half of my team had to warp out.
http://i.imgur.com/JTLZJQT.jpg
Cannons...
@0km 100.0%
@1km 100.0%
@2km 95.0%
@3km 87.5%
@4km 80.0%
@5km 72.5%
@6km 65.0%
@7km 57.5%
@8km 50.0%
@9km 42.5%
@<10km 40.0%
Beams...
@0km 100.0%
@1km 100.0%
@2km 96.0%
@3km 92.0%
@4km 88.0%
@5km 84.0%
@6km 80.0%
@7km 76.0%
@8km 72.0%
@9km 68.0%
@<10km 64.0%
Torpedoes...
...risk the target being destroyed before the system registers the hit and applies the damage.
Mines...
...could end up sitting in the middle of nowhere doing nothing.
But like many other things, it requires a wee bit of thought now in how to apply it. Even a GW required some thought...target the first or the last, yeah? There are all sorts of thought processes and calculations going on for many folks, even if they're no longer aware of them - no longer consciously thinking of them. For some folks, they're unaware of what's going on so they neither think about it actively nor passively. That knowledge and experience at work...or that lack of knowledge and experience at work.
Our content isn't very dynamic - it's pretty static - you play it once, you've played it a thousand times. There aren't any surprises. It's one of the reasons that some give for PvE being boring compared to PvP. It's predictable.
It's like the arguments that take place before some of the PvE folks over that DPS from running something like ISA shouldn't matter, that it should be DPS from a target dummy. ISA is a target dummy...well, can be. If you run ISA with the same group or same type of group, then ISA is pretty much a target dummy. It allows folks to refine/tweak their builds...tada.
Which is also where some folks prefer to public pug things like ISA, because they're looking for some dynamic play - which the content cannot give them - but which other players can. Cause you're never quite sure who those four other guys are going to be, what they'll be bringing, nor what they're going to do...it can be exciting and challenging...though at the extreme, it can also be frustrating.
But in the end, you can pretty much look at any mob in the game and know how it's going to behave depending on the time into a run or based on the stimulus going on around them. Their AI is not state of the art.
With that, I guess could be why some folks are looking at this change and wondering what the Hell folks are talking about...they were already playing a certain way, they already had a certain amount of knowledge, etc, etc, etc.
Which in turn gets into that argument that can take place between folks...does it matter if one can get better or not in a game? Things like this present an opportunity for folks to improve - not through putting their nose to the grindstone, not through any sort of extreme effort or the like...Hell, basically just kind of through osmosis. But some folks are so adamant about not wanting to improve or even allowing passive opportunities to improve happen around them...that they'll put all sorts of massive work into fighting against it.
Oh well, eh? Different folks and all that, yeah?
edit: Lol at the 725.5% that was there...heh.
I know
however it wasn't a good skill choice for PvE in the first place and a lot less now , If anything it needed a buff
It simply shows how much the Devs know their own game
It was Meh for us ( PvE ) and deadly to the PvP crowd so instead of fixing it its gets the universal nerf
some user of it will have to say if its still a decent skill in PvP , But its a flop skill in PvE and is replaced on my ships
business as usual
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Bla, bla, bla. You'd be the first to cry like a baby when they removed the chase from torps.
Yeah, yeah, I know, you're all ecstatic because you got your inside man Bort doing your bidding; but could you at least keep the trolling down a bit?
I thought it was a pretty decent debuffer for PvE (kinda like APB for Intel). As for PvP, all that was needed was to remove the disable from it. Instead, they went completely overboard, removing the chase as well. And believe me, if you ever saw a PvP-er scream red before, they'd be doing so at the top of their lungs if they gave torps the same treatment.
But in here it's the same as in the real-world: squeaky wheel gets the grease.
^^ You made a very reasonable post.
Anyway, thanks for your good post! The die is cast now; and I would have preferred a diferent solution; but way it is is the way it is, I suppose.
Ionic Turbulence did two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
Ionic Turbulence does two things.
1) Applied Damage Resistance Debuff.
2) Chance To Disable.
What has changed is the follow mechanic, right? Even with the follow angle, was it effective crowd control? It's chance based. Previously you could drop out an Ionic Turbulence that would go right to the target or group of targets...and...it wouldn't disable a one. They'd just keep on flying along.
It previously worked best against stationary targets or targets that were otherwise already crowd controlled. That hasn't changed.
It's still nifty for somebody that's cycling APB/APO to drop out during their APO phase...or for somebody that does not have any other form of debuffing damage resistance or wants some additional debuffing of damage resistance.
It seems, imho, that both certain members of the PvP and PvE communities are treating it as if Ionic Turbulence wasn't chance based and was some sort of awesome crowd control ability.
For me, it was a simple case of it doing one thing while the tooltip said something else. So there would have been two potential fixes to satisfy my personal complaint about it:
1) Change it to work like the tooltip.
2) Change the tooltip to how it works.
Cause in neither PvP nor PvE, imho, was the follow a big deal. Actually, in PvP I saw it as a disadvantage for the person using it - cause they'd end up telegraphing their attacks, dropping it out early and letting their intended target know there was an attack coming...thus giving them the opportunity to prepare for said attack. Not much different than folks that would telegraph their vapes by hitting their Tractor Beams too early.
Have to wonder how many folks died in an Ionic AoE without ever being held by it...but complained that it was Ionic that did it? Cause you know, there was the whole chained Viral Torp thing as well as working in the Plasma/Phaser Lance consoles with the ability to disable...so it was entirely possible to chainstun 100-0 somebody without the Ionic hold ever triggering. But what Ionic did add, was some hull damage resistance debuffing for when the OSS boosted SS started shredding hull of that disabled target.
To be blunt, imho most folks have no clue what actually killed them. "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!"...when the combat log shows they took damage for 10-12 seconds and a video would show there was all sorts of buff/debuff counterplay taking place. It's just /facepalm.
Thought it was trippy that Cryptic added the Toggle Damage History to try to help folks out with that...and folks still complained it was "Omgherd, I got killed in one shot!" - lol/meh.
But yeah, anyway - personally, I just wanted the tooltip/ability to match up one way or the other...they did that. So I'm a happy camper, would have been a happy camper if they'd changed the tooltip instead. Either way would have worked...
You know by chance what affects this chance to disable ?
(As I said many times I stoped using IT a log time ago after I noticed that it wasn't affecting 3-4 top PVP-ers I had to fight on arena.It was long before last nerf and I didn't understood why sci and eng were affected but those tac weren't.)
Hmm probably i will have to slot IT again to make some tests .
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Yeah, gonna skip all the ranty ad hominems here for a moment, and just drill to the bedrock of what seems like you making an attempt at an argument here.
I've been witnessing some ridiculous grandstanding over people spacebarring, being horrible pilots, etc. -- well, you know, pretty much what you're doing in this reply too. All whilst I keep reminding you, that PvP-ers would be extremely upset if, say, torps lost their tracking too. And you know I'm right, of course. Naturally you can never admt that, as you wanted the tracking removed, so you just derise and resort to name-calling towards those who actually used the ability, as if losing tracking on a weapon is no big deal.
omg can't breathe can't breathe lol.
Win.
See this, all you pathetic cry-babies?! Apparently real PvP-ers *were* able to defend themselves against Ionic Turbulence just fine! Hahaha! I'm laughing so hard now. Y'all went crying to mommy, begging for a nerf; whereas all you had to do was improve your game!
I have no idea how they did it; after all, I'm not a PvP-er; but, boy, did they make you whiners look like fools or what!?
Ahahahahahahahhahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahah ahahhaahhahahaaahahahahahahhahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahaahhahahahahahaha ahhahaahhahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahahahaha haahahhahahhah more like these please
Apparently you like being a living fail
The chance itself to Hold + Repel...
IT1's 20% per sec.
IT2's 30% per sec.
IT3's 40% per sec.
Might be a personal bias, but I see Tacs as being zippier than Eng or Sci. Doesn't matter what they're flying, they just seem relatively zippier. Heh, a Tac in a D'deridex vs. an Eng in a D'deridex - I'm just going to expect one of them is going to be moving a bit zippier than the other.
One is simply not going to be in the field as long as the other and not subject to as many rolls. Even if they're hit by a Viral Torp, it's not stopping them - they'll keep moving on out of the field.
Back in October, they changed the chance from 20% to 20%, 35% to 30%, and 50% to 40%. They increased the immunity period from 6s to 10s. They reduced the amount of "repel" by 20%.
That last part would have helped some of the ziipier folks not lose their momentum.
There was a thread discussing counters to Ionic/Viral Torpedo/etc...where the key issue, imho, was the overall lack of an immunity period actually applying from any of it. Multiple folks dropping out Ionics and the Viral Torp spam issue just meant chained stuns. It got into HE/ET applications, both ET->HE and outside HE sort of things...but Gather Intel (including the full stack from the Phaser/Plasma Lances) and Sci could just make a mockery of it.
But at the same time, if somebody dropped out an Ionic from a day away - it left far too much time to think of the best potential counter for it. Lol, even the goofy Trajector Jump just as it hit could turn a death moment into a neeneer moment.
Tacs though...I just always saw them more as zipping around, so even if they got hit - they'd be on their way. With their higher defense, they'd also be subject less to the Viral Torps and landing those Lance consoles.
Would get into that combination of SNB, Intel Lance Console, VM, Particle Emission Torp, Ionic, EMP...and yeah, some other things...making them the sitting target for somebody else to have their way with them.
While Eng/Sci, tending to be in those slower vessels - even somebody in a Wells was moving slow compared to Tacs zipping around in whatever they received in the mail from the Escort-of-the-Month Club. Hell, the way some would move their Cruisers would put Eng/Sci to shame in Escorts.
Guess I'm rambling all over the place here, but yeah - it was something that I definitely noticed; but I guess I just always attributed it to speed...that bias...Tacs fly around faster sort of thing.
I can't recall the discussion on the role that APO/AtD played in it, because the whole thing was muddied by that combination of Ionic, Viral Torp, and even the Gather Intel stuff....
Did anybody actually ever run the EPtE Control Resistance DOFF? Reckless Abandon's Evasive Maneuvers immunity to movement stuff? Does Boost Morale provide that CoT for it. CoT? Lol, DoT (Damage), HoT (Heal), CoT (Cleanse)...CoT? That just...meh, I need more caffeine and a smoke...wtf have I been babbling about there. :P