Lolol established science. You still think phasers work like guns? Bigger equals better? Very scientific on a particle energy weapons!
you do know an array is a collection of daisy chained emitters right? and that the array size is determined by how many emitters are linked together, right?
also yes, on any non array particle energy weapons, bigger is more powerful! i know, i was shocking when i found out too.
Established science disagrees with you. And the canon example in "The Nth Degree" makes perfect sense. We never see the whole array light up. The stored energy travels along the array. And when they need larger blasts they increase power from the warp core to single emitter AND it's not the only example!
never see the array light up? i could probably link a dozen youtube videos proving that wrong, more often then not thee is a moving glow effect across all or a partial part of the array. here's several
lets see, arrays are made of linked emitters, each getting supplied its own power from the EPS grid, and there is a moving glow effect across them signifying gathering energy from multiple emitters to the fireing point, yet it makes perfect sense for them to only overcharge a single emitter, that 1 time, for a powerful shot? sorry, that doesn't track at all.
you do know an array is a collection of daisy chained emitters right? and that the array size is determined by how many emitters are linked together, right?
also yes, on any non array particle energy weapons, bigger is more powerful! i know, i was shocking when i found out too.
never see the array light up? i could probably link a dozen youtube videos proving that wrong, more often then not thee is a moving glow effect across all or a partial part of the array. here's several
lets see, arrays are made of linked emitters, each getting supplied its own power from the EPS grid, and there is a moving glow effect across them signifying gathering energy from multiple emitters to the fireing point, yet it makes perfect sense for them to only overcharge a single emitter, that 1 time, for a powerful shot? sorry, that doesn't track at all.
Lot of the scenes in those links have the glow travel accross the array only for the first shot, while subsequent shots fire without the traveling glow
If the power were used as you suggest i would think that the glow would be traveling on every firing cycle, not just the first of the volley
( though I'll concede that visual FX continuity is far from consistent, making it hard to actually analyse this sort of thing by visual examples alone )
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Lot of the scenes in those links have the glow travel accross the array only for the first shot, while subsequent shots fire without the traveling glow
If the power were used as you suggest i would think that the glow would be traveling on every firing cycle, not just the first of the volley
( though I'll concede that visual FX continuity is far from consistent, making it hard to actually analyse this sort of thing by visual examples alone )
its most likely lazy cgi, made for 90s era tvs. the tech manual corroborates that the glow has meaning, a gathering of power held by multiple emitters. there's no way to justify there ever being that glow effect if thats not what its for.
So since the T-6 Intel Guardian is a ship that actually exists in game and is purchasable right now, I have to assume this wishing for the Ye Olde Galaxy to be buffed is just wishful thinking from people too cheap to actually buy the T6 "Galaxy-Like" ship?
No, because if an actually competitive GCS was released, a lot of us would probably be willing to pay double what the Guardian costs, out of pocket no less.
Don't try to read anything more complicated into it than that people want a more playable redesign of the GCS specifically, not an elongated vague lookalike.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Then why is the single emitter overcharged with extra power to the EPS conduits (fluid by warp core plasma) behind it more powerful than the entire emitter array?
You put too much in 1 snippet from the tech manual and are ignoring power transfer intensities from the warp core and fusion reactors to the phaser emitters.
the plasma that powers everything on the ship, including the phasers, is powered by the warp core all the time, this is not some special circumstance. warp core plasma is also supplemented by the fusion reactors too, most of which are attached to the impulse coils directly. from what source is irreverent, plasma is plasma once its in the EPS system
Why does it All Good Things does the Ent-DX have a single larger emitter that rolfstomps a Neghvar in a single pass?
because Q. also because each and every emitter on the array does not have that giant spinal lance attached to it. its got more in common with a negvar's underslung mega cannons then an array.
Why in BOBW does the Ent-D fire a blast from its deflector dish that Geordi states is far more powerful than the phasers and photons could ever provide?
what does this have to do with anything? the deflector can emit the most power because lol plot device, wile also breaking itself. notice how deflector blast never became a conventional weapon or tactic, probably for equally plot device reasons.
Why are ALL future tactical starship's phase arrays broken into separate arrays instead of 1 giant spiral on the saucer?
because all future ships are a fraction of the galaxy class's size? their arrays are smaller, imagine that. perhaps their smaller EPS system wouldn't be able to support the power draw and target fire rate so there was no reason to try to make them longer then they did.
And it looks more like power is transferring from 1 emitter to another until the emitter that has the target within optimal firing arc and discharges. Not the whole array lights up at once and drains.
the tech manual states that each emitter is independently supplied with power, has its own capacitor, and is its own self contained phaser bank, fully capable of fireing on its own. the array configuration links each emitter's capacitor together, so the power of some or all the emitters on the array can be used in a single shot. thats how arrays work, thats the whole point of arrays. that, and the incredible fire arc they have, it can fire a shot powered by every emitter in any arc the array has line of sight with. biggest reason the galaxy X and its spinal lance is so dumb.
So since the T-6 Intel Guardian is a ship that actually exists in game and is purchasable right now, I have to assume this wishing for the Ye Olde Galaxy to be buffed is just wishful thinking from people too cheap to actually buy the T6 "Galaxy-Like" ship?
And you'd be wrong. Some of us want the Galaxy Class, not a "Galaxy-like" ship. Personally for me the Guardian has the perfect Boff and console layout. The only reason I haven't bought the ship is because it looks kinda' weird to me - personal preferences, taste and all. If it had a Galaxy skin availible like the Pathfinder has the Intrepid one, I'd own the ship today, heck it would have been the first T6 I bought.
This has nothing to do with being cheap, it has to do with people liking what they like - not something that is kinda', sorta', maybe like it.
I can picture you running around conventions thumping the "good book" (tech manual) and ignoring all scientific, canon and common sense.
Not like the writer didn't just put something, anything down on paper in order to rush copies of the manual into production to sell to trekkies or anything.
thats funny, im the one posting canon evidence, your just in some kind of denial.
and the tng tech manual is an adaptation of the tng writers bible, published from an in universe perspective. its not only canon, its the basis of canon.
Regarding the phaser arrays, whether you feel dontdrunkimshoot is right or wrong the fact remains that until the Sovereign/Prometheus with their mk 12 Arrays the Galaxy classes MK 10 were the most advanced and powerful equipped to any ship at the time. Only a Starbase had more powerful arrays.
Voyager may have had mk 10, some sources say mk 10 some mk 8
Really you're evidence is conjecture of lazy CGI or other ignorance.
Roddenberry said canon is what's on screen so I'll take his word overs yours anyday.
And for majority of TNG technobabble was written by NASA Scientists. I'll take their word over yours as well.
And that section of the tech manual was written before the Intrepid, Sovereign and many other ships were even dreamed up.
Roddenberry never said that. He was actually more strict in his own version of what he believe Star Trek was to the point he would declare bits and pieces of movies and episodes not canon.
Really you're evidence is conjecture of lazy CGI or other ignorance.
Roddenberry said canon is what's on screen so I'll take his word overs yours anyday.
And for majority of TNG technobabble was written by NASA Scientists. I'll take their word over yours as well.
And that section of the tech manual was written before the Intrepid, Sovereign and many other ships were even dreamed up.
literal on screen proof is not conjecture. and the absence of the effect happening does not supersede the effect happening. it would have to NEVER happen for you to have any argument.
the techno babel is all in the book. its not some 3rd part effort, its their own technobable reference released in book form. Roddenberry was already dead by the time it was released anyway. not that his opinion on the subject maters anyway, like i said, its the reference guide for the creation of canon. that makes it canon.
and it doesn't mater if its voyager, or the enterprise E, the basic tech still works in exactly the same way. arrays didn't one day work completely differently, wile operating and appearing to be exactly the same
No the tech manual is Not the guide for the creation of canon. Now I see where you are completely backwards. The tech manual is an attempt to explain what we see on screen and how it works. It's After the fact...not before.
"The published Technical Manual was partly based on an internal document, the Star Trek: The Next Generation Writers' Technical Manual. The information was authored by the technical staff of the television series, and as such most of it is directly derived from filmed references."
That was a good four years before the war started.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Venture Nacelles, and neck with a Gal;axy saucer and hull by the looks of things
In my opinion the Venture Neck fixes almost all the issue i had with the Cobra head the galaxy is. I'd fly one iof it weren't for the ship not suiting my play style
yup that's what it is missed that post when i was digging through the thread the first time
the venture is a really nice skin option only complaint i have is they get rid of huge main shuttle bay in the suacer
yup that's what it is missed that post when i was digging through the thread the first time
the venture is a really nice skin option only complaint i have is they get rid of huge main shuttle bay in the suacer
Ah
I get a similar issue with my Assult cruiser when i mix the parts from different skins, seems most of the neck options covers up the saucer hanger
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
"The published Technical Manual was partly based on an internal document, the Star Trek: The Next Generation Writers' Technical Manual. The information was authored by the technical staff of the television series, and as such most of it is directly derived from filmed references."
Excelsiors were dropping like flies during the dominion war
Marquis disabled an Excelsior class
Mirandas were total cannon fodder at anytime in the tng-ds9
So what's you're point again about those 2 ships. One died from a alien computer virus that would have had the same effect on any vessel, the other was rammed and from what we have seen in st cannon that is usual fatal for both ships.
You see people who are posting against the Galaxy seem to only remember 2 or 3 episodes and always come back to those. It's as if it those 3 incidents are the only thing that happened during 2 series where the galaxy featured extensively.
Ok. I have no idea why Galaxy threads become monsters but I don't care.
t6 Galaxy. Layout like the pathfinder, sci slots are eng, intel/eng is command/sci, 5/3/2 console lay out with a 3rd tac console for the fleet version, and it can use all past Galaxy skins.
Let me guess? Not good enough? Oh yes. If it does not aloadsoftacticalconsoles it is the worst ship ever.
If you was trying to make eng better and not just your baby I would be fighting side by side with you. But no, you are pretty much "give me mine's and everyone else can get bent." and that makes Picard cry.
"The 1991 reference book Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual (pp. 123-125) explain the inner mechanisms of a phaser in more elaborate detail. "Phaser" is, according to the book, an acronym for "phased energy rectification" named for the process of turning stored energy into an energy beam without an intermediate transformation. Energetic plasma is pumped to a prefire chamber made out of a superconducting lithium-copper. There, it undergoes a rapid nadion effect in which strong nuclear forces are liberated. A protonic charge forms and is released in pulses to the emitter made out of the same superconductive crystal. A beam of elecromagnetic energy is released from it, at the speed of light. On starships, energy for phasers originates from the EPS, while on hand units, the charge of energetic plasma is stored into sarium-krellide. This material is used because it can't accidentally release the charge of plasma."
During the firing sequence of some shipmounted arrays, phaser energies would travel along the emitter strip and converge at the best position for targeting. (Star Trek: The Next Generation)
There's nothing about longer array == more power. Its something you made up. Longer Array is for a wider firing arc. THATS IT!
its funny, now you care what the manual says? lol! why don't you try googling a pdf rather then taking an excerpt from memory alpha as proof of anything. you honestly think i would cite my sources if i was making any of this up? someone could just check.
the important bits are it mentioning there being 200 emitters in the largest array on a GCS, and groups of emitters being powered by primary trunks the EPS system. signifying each emitter being its own self contained unit. further reinforced here
"the first stage of the array segment is the EPS submaster flow regulator, the principle mechanism controlling phaser power levels for fireing. the flow regulator leads into 200 supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers."
200 supply conduits, 200 prefire chambers, thats quite a coincidence when they are talking about a 200 emiiter array.
"energy from all segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to forced coupling converging on the release point."
this is the power from each emitter passing down the array to the fireing point, that moving glow effect you see on the show.
conclusions:
-each emitter is a fully independent phaser bank, with its own EPS pipeing, own stored energy, and ability to fire.
-power of a beam is determined by how many emitters discharge their energy over their neighbors, to the release point.
-the more emitters involved in this, the more powerful a beam can be. because of simple addition.
-this is seen visually happening every time you see the moving glow effect in the show.
whats hilarious is that you don't even need the tech manual backing this up, you see energy concentrating to the fire point, you have to assume energy is being gathered from the entire array to do it, there is no other conclusion you can draw.
pretty much the array can fire the emitters independently (when you see 2 or more beams form the same array) or have all the emitters fire at once in one combined beam. the huge charge up and long fire
the quick succession fires with out the charge up is just single emitter shots most of the time on the show you see these when they are going in to disable a ship
Comments
you do know an array is a collection of daisy chained emitters right? and that the array size is determined by how many emitters are linked together, right?
also yes, on any non array particle energy weapons, bigger is more powerful! i know, i was shocking when i found out too.
never see the array light up? i could probably link a dozen youtube videos proving that wrong, more often then not thee is a moving glow effect across all or a partial part of the array. here's several
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d734afLFPds&playnext=1&list=PLF37F38EA72A03613
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWi-pJLO2m4&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtWOFMPzYuY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHszpVnGwyw
lets see, arrays are made of linked emitters, each getting supplied its own power from the EPS grid, and there is a moving glow effect across them signifying gathering energy from multiple emitters to the fireing point, yet it makes perfect sense for them to only overcharge a single emitter, that 1 time, for a powerful shot? sorry, that doesn't track at all.
Lot of the scenes in those links have the glow travel accross the array only for the first shot, while subsequent shots fire without the traveling glow
If the power were used as you suggest i would think that the glow would be traveling on every firing cycle, not just the first of the volley
( though I'll concede that visual FX continuity is far from consistent, making it hard to actually analyse this sort of thing by visual examples alone )
its most likely lazy cgi, made for 90s era tvs. the tech manual corroborates that the glow has meaning, a gathering of power held by multiple emitters. there's no way to justify there ever being that glow effect if thats not what its for.
No, because if an actually competitive GCS was released, a lot of us would probably be willing to pay double what the Guardian costs, out of pocket no less.
Don't try to read anything more complicated into it than that people want a more playable redesign of the GCS specifically, not an elongated vague lookalike.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
the plasma that powers everything on the ship, including the phasers, is powered by the warp core all the time, this is not some special circumstance. warp core plasma is also supplemented by the fusion reactors too, most of which are attached to the impulse coils directly. from what source is irreverent, plasma is plasma once its in the EPS system
because Q. also because each and every emitter on the array does not have that giant spinal lance attached to it. its got more in common with a negvar's underslung mega cannons then an array.
what does this have to do with anything? the deflector can emit the most power because lol plot device, wile also breaking itself. notice how deflector blast never became a conventional weapon or tactic, probably for equally plot device reasons.
because all future ships are a fraction of the galaxy class's size? their arrays are smaller, imagine that. perhaps their smaller EPS system wouldn't be able to support the power draw and target fire rate so there was no reason to try to make them longer then they did.
the tech manual states that each emitter is independently supplied with power, has its own capacitor, and is its own self contained phaser bank, fully capable of fireing on its own. the array configuration links each emitter's capacitor together, so the power of some or all the emitters on the array can be used in a single shot. thats how arrays work, thats the whole point of arrays. that, and the incredible fire arc they have, it can fire a shot powered by every emitter in any arc the array has line of sight with. biggest reason the galaxy X and its spinal lance is so dumb.
And you'd be wrong. Some of us want the Galaxy Class, not a "Galaxy-like" ship. Personally for me the Guardian has the perfect Boff and console layout. The only reason I haven't bought the ship is because it looks kinda' weird to me - personal preferences, taste and all. If it had a Galaxy skin availible like the Pathfinder has the Intrepid one, I'd own the ship today, heck it would have been the first T6 I bought.
This has nothing to do with being cheap, it has to do with people liking what they like - not something that is kinda', sorta', maybe like it.
thats funny, im the one posting canon evidence, your just in some kind of denial.
and the tng tech manual is an adaptation of the tng writers bible, published from an in universe perspective. its not only canon, its the basis of canon.
Voyager may have had mk 10, some sources say mk 10 some mk 8
Roddenberry never said that. He was actually more strict in his own version of what he believe Star Trek was to the point he would declare bits and pieces of movies and episodes not canon.
literal on screen proof is not conjecture. and the absence of the effect happening does not supersede the effect happening. it would have to NEVER happen for you to have any argument.
the techno babel is all in the book. its not some 3rd part effort, its their own technobable reference released in book form. Roddenberry was already dead by the time it was released anyway. not that his opinion on the subject maters anyway, like i said, its the reference guide for the creation of canon. that makes it canon.
and it doesn't mater if its voyager, or the enterprise E, the basic tech still works in exactly the same way. arrays didn't one day work completely differently, wile operating and appearing to be exactly the same
"The published Technical Manual was partly based on an internal document, the Star Trek: The Next Generation Writers' Technical Manual. The information was authored by the technical staff of the television series, and as such most of it is directly derived from filmed references."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_Technical_Manual
I never beleive a thing you guys say around here as yuo don't know your Trek like you think to.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
did someone forget what started the war.
The Odyssey gets destroyed.
This coming from the guy who said Star Trek: First Contact lost money. :rolleyes:
That was a good four years before the war started.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
yup that's what it is missed that post when i was digging through the thread the first time
the venture is a really nice skin option only complaint i have is they get rid of huge main shuttle bay in the suacer
no more torpedo phaser
Ah
I get a similar issue with my Assult cruiser when i mix the parts from different skins, seems most of the neck options covers up the saucer hanger
it makes no sense to me to get rid of a feature like that
interesting bit of information the manual depicts a saucer landing 4 years before generations even was a thought
makes me happy to see that incompetence stricken from the 'historical records'
Really? Name them.
t6 Galaxy. Layout like the pathfinder, sci slots are eng, intel/eng is command/sci, 5/3/2 console lay out with a 3rd tac console for the fleet version, and it can use all past Galaxy skins.
Let me guess? Not good enough? Oh yes. If it does not aloadsoftacticalconsoles it is the worst ship ever.
If you was trying to make eng better and not just your baby I would be fighting side by side with you. But no, you are pretty much "give me mine's and everyone else can get bent." and that makes Picard cry.
its funny, now you care what the manual says? lol! why don't you try googling a pdf rather then taking an excerpt from memory alpha as proof of anything. you honestly think i would cite my sources if i was making any of this up? someone could just check.
starting on page 126
https://cudebi.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/franchise-star-trek-tng-technical-manual1.pdf
the important bits are it mentioning there being 200 emitters in the largest array on a GCS, and groups of emitters being powered by primary trunks the EPS system. signifying each emitter being its own self contained unit. further reinforced here
"the first stage of the array segment is the EPS submaster flow regulator, the principle mechanism controlling phaser power levels for fireing. the flow regulator leads into 200 supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers."
200 supply conduits, 200 prefire chambers, thats quite a coincidence when they are talking about a 200 emiiter array.
"energy from all segments passes directionally over neighboring segments due to forced coupling converging on the release point."
this is the power from each emitter passing down the array to the fireing point, that moving glow effect you see on the show.
conclusions:
-each emitter is a fully independent phaser bank, with its own EPS pipeing, own stored energy, and ability to fire.
-power of a beam is determined by how many emitters discharge their energy over their neighbors, to the release point.
-the more emitters involved in this, the more powerful a beam can be. because of simple addition.
-this is seen visually happening every time you see the moving glow effect in the show.
whats hilarious is that you don't even need the tech manual backing this up, you see energy concentrating to the fire point, you have to assume energy is being gathered from the entire array to do it, there is no other conclusion you can draw.
the quick succession fires with out the charge up is just single emitter shots most of the time on the show you see these when they are going in to disable a ship