Buffing Engineering skills would make more players happy though; and is a valid possible path that takes far less time and effort than one ship.
Boarding Party may as well have the Doff turrets a permanent fixture, and the Doff instead adds micro-torpedo launchers and faster movement to them. and the rank levels increase the number of launched ships by 1 (before Doubling from Doff).
Aceton Beam might as well be an offensive Deflector-based "lance-like weapon" ability, doing actual damage in addition to its debuff and DoT.
there are a lot of useless trap skills in the game, eng just happens to have the most. wile having no system cooldown variety at low levels, and having near nothing but garbage higher up, it certainly needs the most help.
I didn't read every post but players should be able to pilot the enterprises from the shows at end game. Barring that there should be ship skins that let their ships look like that. Maybe that is already the case? I haven't checked.
Making Aceton Beam, boarding party and other joke engineering abilities into serious contenders for players in cutting edge content would probably be a compromise to Galaxy players that bemoan it's ungodly ton of engineering slots. Though I wish it had even a single extra tactical boff seat, even if it was only an ensign seat. That at least would allow you to have tac team, fire at will and attack pattern beta which would make the ship a good support ship for spreading around the Beta debuff and improving a groups bottom line. Your only other choice would be giving up tac team, which would be suicide.
In another thread, someone complained about the Galaxy class in game being a "gimped Titanic" and wanted a better one. That sentiment is one I've seen a lot, with people who grew up on TNG having an attachment to that ship and wanting it to be made as a viable endgame ship if not THE main flagship as it was lo those decades ago when TNG was still on the air. My reply to him was as follows:
Now I won't deny I hate the Galaxy and have from the first moment I laid eyes on it in 1987. I feel it's hideously ugly and the design principles both inside and out were misguided at best. I grew up on TOS, but I immediately recognized the Constitution refit as vastly superior to the original and the Excelsior as better still. I fell in love with the Sovereign at first sight as it corrected virtually every design mistake made with Galaxy and restored grace and beauty to the Enterprise line.
But even if the Galaxy was an amazing ship, she's still vastly outdated just like my beloved Refit Enterprise from TMP and TWOK. Time moves on and beloved ships get outdated and replaced by modern designs. That's how it works. It happens to cars too. Why can't some people accept that and move on from the Galaxy, especially when the Guardian exists to represent the Ambassador / Galaxy design lineage in the modern setting?
By the time of TNG and DS9 the Excelsior had been in service for well over 100 years. By the time this game takes place even longer than that. The Miranda and Constitution class designs are even older the the Excelsior and still are in service. So the logic that people should just "move on" is your logic alone. I personally love the galaxy class design and as such have picked up the cstore galaxy and galaxy x. Your entire post essentially boils down to this, "I don't like the galaxy class and because of that people shouldn't get a better version of the ship."
By your logic someone who likes a classic car such as the first Shelby Cobras should just move on should just move on and buy the modern version simply because you don't like the older version. Your entire argument is made from the arrogant position that because you don't like it everyone else shouldn't be given a better version of it. To expand on my Cobra example a bit more, you're essentially saying that a person shouldn't be able to restore an older Cobra because you don't like it and should be made to buy the new version.
What you don't understand is that to some people age doesn't matter. Some people like what they like, and in this instance some people like the Galaxy class. Furthermore you obviously never saw DS9 if you think the galaxy class is weak. The Galaxy class had the ability to have families onboard but could also be reconfigured to make them into even more of a battleship. In fact the galaxy class even had their own attack wings due to their power. If you want an example of the power of the Galaxy then watch the DS9 episode Sacrifice of Angels and watch how the 2 Galaxies put away that Galor and keep rolling. Furthermore watch the Battle of Chintoka. The USS Galaxy which gets shot up by the turrets wasn't destroyed in the battle but kept on fighting and was still around until later. The Enterprise-D was destroyed by the Brel because the Duras sisters used Geordi to spy on the ship and get their shield frequency. When you can bypass a ship's shields in a case like that, you're foolish to think that a ship as weak as an old Brel couldn't do major damage.
The Sovereign is indeed a beautiful ship. By your logic I could also say you should move on from the Sovereign design and just fly an Odyssey. All of the ships deserve some love, not just the Sovereign and ships like it. If you don't like the Galaxy that's on you, but you do not have the right to demand we not be given a better version of the ship simply because you have decided you don't like it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
there are a lot of useless trap skills in the game, eng just happens to have the most. wile having no system cooldown variety at low levels, and having near nothing but garbage higher up, it certainly needs the most help.
Pretty much sums up the problem for Engineering.
Personally I tend to always forget the cooldown variety problem... But it' also huge - But 3 engineering BOs are basically useless because of all the shared cooldowns. You will have way too much overlap. It's completely opposite to Science, where you could probably have 4 science BOs and still find neat stuff to slot. (Hazard Emitters, Science Team, Transfer Shield Strength, Polarize Hull and Tractor Beam are all usefull powers - and the overlap between HE and PH means little because HE has such a long Global.)
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Do we have a T6 Constitution? Excelsior? Ambassador? Hell even the virtually brand new Odyssey and Avenger don't have T6 versions.
We do have Pathfinder, which is a brand new ship based on the Intrepid design lineage, and guess what? We also have the Guardian which is a brand new ship based on the Galaxy and Ambassador lineage. Those are the new top line production ships and they should --nay, MUST-- be better than the ships they replaced or they are pointless.
Galaxy was 50 years ago in game. Yes, she is within her service lifetime but there is no way in hell she should be comparable to a ship fresh off the line this year or the year before. Yes, you can restore your old '65 Mustang but there's no way it will be comparable to a 2015. Time and tech has moved on and if you want to own and operate a 50 year old vehicle you are going to have to make sacrifices compared to the current top of the line.
I'm not saying retire the ship, but there's no way it should be as good as ships that came out 50 years later. Otherwise, those latter ships are rendered pointless. Trek has ALWAYS periodically upgraded or replaced the hero ships with newer, better models. Nostalgia blinded fans want to break that so they can cling to their favorite, and it's selfish and egocentric for them to do so.
And you know what really hacks me off? When TNG came out, the TOS movies were still being made and the Constitution Refit was still gracing the silver screen. All I heard from TNG fans then was that the Galaxy and TNG was the new and current state of the art and to "move on" from the "outdated and obsolete" TOS. But now that those fans have seen their favorite grown outdated, they refuse to do the same. It's self-centered, arrogant, entitled hypocrisy.
Fine, *******s, I moved on. I'm with the current state of the art. Why was "get with the times, your favorite that you grew up on is old news now" good enough when it was their turn in the spotlight but not now? They got their turn and now refuse to give it up.
Maybe if TNG fans back in the heyday of the TOS vs TNG debates had been more magnanimous and tolerant of the older material --or even remotely respectful, as there was a clear movement to make a clean break from TOS in order to establish TNG-- I might be more accepting of their position now. But they were more than happy to tell me to FOAD with my TOS ships and fandom then, in favor of the new hotness, but they refuse to do the same. Even now, they want treatment for the Galaxy that the Constitution Refit does not and will not ever have.
**** them. No Galaxy T6, unless we get a T6 Constitution Refit and Miranda and Excelsior. No special treatment for TNG that doesn't equally apply to TOS, especially the movie era TOS which ran concurrently with TNG. If I had to move on, so do they. If they won't, then I don't have to either.
My vote is to let old ships retire gracefully, but if you want to cling to old favorites and make them cutting edge then it has to apply to ALL of them. You don't get to have it both ways. And since a T6 Con-R and Miranda are off the table, you can shove the idea of a T6 Galaxy up your TRIBBLE.
Endgame Connie and Miranda have been vetoed by CBS. That's the end of it. The way this game is now, with us flying Undine ships of all things, I've frankly given up caring what people fly as long as they don't turn up in an Elite STF with a T1. If it was up to me, you could have your damn museum piece Connie Refit, but it's not up to me.
Also, you falsely assume that the 50-year-old Galaxies were the only ones built. Simple math dictates that's false: There were only six in the original production run, of which three were destroyed, and yet there were at least twelve shown in establishing shots in DS9. Starfleet kept building more of them. And as I mentioned earlier, the specs do not stay constant throughout the production lifetime: that's why it's called a "class" of ship.
So, you can shove your GCS hate up your TRIBBLE.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
So far as I am concerned, the Galaxy should be everything the Excelsior is in STO. As much as I like the class, the Excelsior should NOT be one of the best cruiser options in the game.
I have seen the Excelsior dance like an escort. The thought of the Galaxy doing the same makes me taste bile.
Well, here's my 2 cents. The galaxy, Connie, Miranda, ect are old and therfore it is unrealistic for them to perform as well as current ships.
HOWEVER, Cryptic's great wisdom has turned the area around earth space dock into a random assortment of Dominion, Breen, Cardassian, Species 8472, Voth, Vaudwar, Kobali, Ferengi, etc etc ships all commanded by Starfleet officers ... so so really cares if a ship is too old anymore?
I'd honostly rather see a Tier 6 NX-01 than another enemy alien vessel.
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Any canon/logic argument against a Tier 5 or Tier 6 Galaxy will however fall flat on its face simply because the Excelsior is a Tier 3 ship, but has a Tier 5 Retrofit. If the Excelsior can make a 2 tier jump, so can the Galaxy.
And the Intrepid and Akira did make similar jumps. (Akira from Tier 3 to Tier 5, Intrepid from Tier 4 to Tier 5 and Tier 6 now.)
I don't mean in terms of things like turn rate etc, I mean BOFF and console layout.
Meh. I think it should have a Lt.Cmdr Science slot. It's an Exploration Cruiser. That would fit the bill more than a Lt.Cmdr Tactical or Lt. Cmdr Engineering slot.
Of course, a Tier 6 version could have any combination here and would probably be great.
But unfortunately, when Cryptic made these ships initially, the principle for Tier 5 ships was this:
Escort was linked to Tactical slots, Cruisers with Engineering, Science Vessel with Science slots.
At Tier 5, a ship needed one Cmdr and one Lt.Cmdr slot that was linked with its class, and one Lt. slot for the classes it was not linked with, and then each ship would get an Ensign of one of the off-classes.
Then they added the first Retrofits, and the logical gap that existed for the Cruisers was a ship with an Ensign Engineer, since Tactical (=> Assault Cruiser) and Science (=> Star Cruiser) were already occupied.
And so we were stuck with that choice.
In the whole shuffle, back in those days, the real winner IMO was the Intrepid. Tactical Team was still a useless power back then, the Tactical Escort Retrofit had a terrible BO layout, too (one that the Klingon Raptor had to deal with, too). But there were and still are plenty of good ensign science powers.
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I don't want one. She's still beautiful to me, and I'd love to see her take some form of role as an updated pure science explorer like the modern equivalent to the Oberth class, but I don't expect her to be a cutting edge top of the line ship anymore. That ship has sailed.
And so has the Galaxy.
The Constitution Refit debuted in 1979, the Galaxy in 1987. The final appearance of the Con-R was 1991, the final appearances of the Enterprise-D came in 1994. That year, the Galaxy class was replaced as hero ship by the Sovereign, and then came Defiant and Voyager later down the line. If Con-R is a "museum piece", so is the damned Galaxy. They spent the vast majority of their screen time prime in overlapping years throughout the 1980s. In fact, the Con-R Enterprise lasted longer on screen than the Galaxy did! Con-R Enterprise lasted 12 years appearing in 6 movies, Galaxy Enterprise-D lasted 7 years in 7 television seasons and one movie.
So why is one a "museum piece" and the other argued to be made current and competitive with brand new ships just being released today? Oh, there's a 100 year in-universe gap to consider, but old designs can be repurposed and used in a different role, especially when they were once the cutting edge flagship. The B-52 and C-130 come to mind in the real world, as well as old Navy battleships refit and repurposed as support vessels to the modern cutting edge aircraft carriers. Some designs age better than others and some just never stop being useful because they're just damned good at their role. Others are obsoleted more quickly than anticipated by changing times or poor design decisions or a change in doctrine. Age and intended service lifespan are not the only factors to consider.
Of course, there's a 50 year gap between TNG era and modern STO time as well, making it ludicrous that a Galaxy should be comparable to an Avenger or Odyssey or Guardian or Eclipse. What makes people think that's even an idea worth considering? If Galaxy could do it all, why would Starfleet ever stop building them and why ever build something different? An in-universe time jump rendered Con-R obsolete even as she was still appearing in movies in the real world, Galaxy is rendered obsolete by a 50-year in-universe jump, 21 years gone in real time, and multiple generations of replacement vessels.
No endgame Galaxy unless ALL hero ships are retconned into current vessels somehow.
While the Con-R was being shown on screen longer, the Galaxy has more screen time than any Enterprise to date. Yet, the Constitution has been in service for nearly sixty years (2240s to 2290s), plus with a Constitution Refit at Wolf 359. Technically, it doesn't really matter in terms of STO game play since we have T'Varos, T'Liss, K'tingas, and D'kyrs flying around.
If the Hero Pathfinder/Intrepid didn't get a Lt.Cmdr Tac or Eng slot, what makes anyone think a T6 Galaxy will? It and the Defiant and the Intrepid practically share the same core seating arrangement; just modified to fit their class, and are generally considered all Hero ships of their respective series.
A T6 Galaxy can get by fine with an Lt. Uni and an Lt. Hybrid seat on either the Lt. Tac or Lt. Sci seat and would still serve in its role as a Jack-of-all-Trades Cruiser without any drama or edging out any of its T6 contemporaries, which is the crux of that issue. An old ship shouldn't be quite able to match newer ships in terms of capability (which are also Cryptic's current pet sellers; namely the Odyssey and the Guardian), but still be close enough to be a worthwhile alternative.
With that said, I personally wouldn't care whether or not a T6 Galaxy got an Lt.Cmdr Tac or Sci seat, since it'd still wouldn't match up against the Odyssey or the Guardian. But like I said earlier, it's highly doubtful when we have precedence set by the Pathfinder, and with the fact that an Lt.Cmdr Tac or Sci seat might be considered too close to the Guardian for Cryptic's liking.
Regardless, I think Cryptic should also buff a few of the Rank III Engineering Space abilities like I mentioned previously, and add a Commander Rank III only super ability like a variant of "Built to Last" (Tac could get a variation of Attack Pattern Tuvok, and Sci gets... I don't know; either something hilariously OP like a combo GW1+TR1 w/o either overriding each other like normal GW/TR sometimes do but sharing CD with GW and TR, or something hilariously UP like Feedback Pulse 1 + Energy Siphon 1). It would go a ways towards making flying any kind of cruiser ship more palatable, and at least give Engineering Space abilities at least one or two decent offensive abilities (besides EWP3, which is highly situational as-is on slow cruisers).
The Constitution Refit debuted in 1979, the Galaxy in 1987. The final appearance of the Con-R was 1991, the final appearances of the Enterprise-D came in 1994. That year, the Galaxy class was replaced as hero ship by the Sovereign, and then came Defiant and Voyager later down the line. If Con-R is a "museum piece", so is the damned Galaxy. They spent the vast majority of their screen time prime in overlapping years throughout the 1980s. In fact, the Con-R Enterprise lasted longer on screen than the Galaxy did! Con-R Enterprise lasted 12 years appearing in 6 movies, Galaxy Enterprise-D lasted 7 years in 7 television seasons and one movie.
lol, production dates are the last thing you want to use for justification. the galaxy was featured very prominently all throughout DS9, even voyager was able to feature it multiple times. and enterprise? a GCS is the last thing you see on screen in televised canon! LOL!
ships only get retired when their bones get to old, or some part of its design prevents modernization refits without structural rebuilding. all the internals and systems on even the oldest possible refit galaxy class in 2410, which would just be 47 years at the very most, are top of the line modern, and no new tech has come along that cant be fitted easily. they were probably building galaxies into the 2380s, if not 2390s. no one in universe in 2410 would think galaxy when someone says antiquated or outdated. they would be thought of like an ambassador was in the 2360, not the most top of the line but still in the top 3 of heaviest classes.
A T6 Galaxy can get by fine with an Lt. Uni and an Lt. Hybrid seat on either the Lt. Tac or Lt. Sci seat and would still serve in its role as a Jack-of-all-Trades Cruiser without any drama or edging out any of its T6 contemporaries, which is the crux of that issue. An old ship shouldn't be quite able to match newer ships in terms of capability (which are also Cryptic's current pet sellers; namely the Odyssey and the Guardian), but still be close enough to be a worthwhile alternative.
if the intrepid is a template, and it most surely is, a tier 6 galaxy would be like so
COM eng
LTC eng LT tac* LT sci LT uni
the tac LT would be the hybrid seat, because a tier 6 defiant wouldn't have a LT tac, it would have to have a hybrid sci, because the intrepid already has a hybrid eng.
which is sort of a bummer as it would really benefit from a LTC command powers
basically the samsar's boff seating
indeed. i think the optimal and most canon friendly layout would be more like this for the tier 6
COM eng LTC uni LT eng LT sci LT uni
the galaxy couldn't be less of a COM+LTC eng ship, let alone a +ENS on top of that. flexibility(universal stations) was the name of the game.
with this, it could be massively sci heavy, like the enterprise was, or serve as a battle ship with high tac load out. you could have a LTC+LT of ether tac or sci with this layout, or any other combo. i think i might prefer a LTC tac + 2 LT sci myself with this to work with.
In another thread, someone complained about the Galaxy class in game being a "gimped Titanic" and wanted a better one. That sentiment is one I've seen a lot, with people who grew up on TNG having an attachment to that ship and wanting it to be made as a viable endgame ship if not THE main flagship as it was lo those decades ago when TNG was still on the air. My reply to him was as follows:
Now I won't deny I hate the Galaxy and have from the first moment I laid eyes on it in 1987. I feel it's hideously ugly and the design principles both inside and out were misguided at best. I grew up on TOS, but I immediately recognized the Constitution refit as vastly superior to the original and the Excelsior as better still. I fell in love with the Sovereign at first sight as it corrected virtually every design mistake made with Galaxy and restored grace and beauty to the Enterprise line.
But even if the Galaxy was an amazing ship, she's still vastly outdated just like my beloved Refit Enterprise from TMP and TWOK. Time moves on and beloved ships get outdated and replaced by modern designs. That's how it works. It happens to cars too. Why can't some people accept that and move on from the Galaxy, especially when the Guardian exists to represent the Ambassador / Galaxy design lineage in the modern setting?
I grew up with TOS reruns and I've liked the Galaxy since Encounter at Farpoint. Sovereign, on the other hand, is just a "kewl" ship. It's nice to look at, but I don't find it endearing at all -
So why is one a "museum piece" and the other argued to be made current and competitive with brand new ships just being released today? Oh, there's a 100 year in-universe gap to consider, but old designs can be repurposed and used in a different role,
Of course, there's a 50 year gap between TNG era and modern STO time as well, making it ludicrous that a Galaxy should be comparable to an Avenger or Odyssey or Guardian or Eclipse. What makes people think that's even an idea worth considErin?
Kumari. Xindi escort. Excelsior. Ambassador D'kyr. All of these ships are older than the Galaxy and perform better. Some are even comparable to the Avenger, Odyssey, Guardian and Eclipse. I agree that by your logic, the Constitution should also have a repurposed T5 version like you said. But it's time to flush your idiotic non-argument of obsolescence down the toilet where it belongs.
I keep saying that, and no one seems to get it. I am NOT saying the Galaxy should have ridden off into the sunset to be decommissioned en masse and sent to a shipbreaking facility to be recycled. That is not at ALL what I am arguing.
What I AM arguing is that the Galaxy should by any logic have been phased back into lesser roles as newer, better ships came along to replace her. And thus, she should not be an endgame ship, competing side by side with her own replacements in the Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Guardian, and Eclipse. Because that makes no godsdamned sense and anyone not blinded by attachment and nostalgia knows it. She shouldn't be as good as newer ships built to replace her. Maybe, like the venerable old C-130 and B-52 and such maybe she might find a niche role that she excels in and be the go to ship for that purpose, but she should never go toe to toe with the best of the best anymore. That time is long past.
I still say a "Galaxia" skin for the Guardian class (and change her to a Command spec vessel while you're at it, that ship does NOT at all scream Intel) is the ideal solution for everyone.
PS: In my headcanon, Con-Rs in modern spec and build are still flying in large number as the modern replacement for the Oberth pure science class, named for NASA and other golden age of human space exploration craft and programs of the past. While our new awesome hero ships are blazing trails and blowing up badguys, the descendants of the original Enterprise are quietly and with great dignity orbiting anomalies and unexplored planets, collecting data and cataloging natural phenomena and mapping out nebulas and star systems and planets. Doing science. Turning the unknown into the known.
still a bunch of BS. this is the star trek amusement park known as sto were everything but the connie can be an end game ship. it has never really mattered how deserving or uneserving a ship is for end game position, regardless of any litany of reasons for or against.
there should not suddenly be some policy change when someone brings up a tier 6 galaxy.
I keep saying that, and no one seems to get it. I am NOT saying the Galaxy should have ridden off into the sunset to be decommissioned en masse and sent to a shipbreaking facility to be recycled. That is not at ALL what I am arguing.
What I AM arguing is that the Galaxy should by any logic have been phased back into lesser roles as newer, better ships came along to replace her. And thus, she should not be an endgame ship, competing side by side with her own replacements in the Sovereign, Odyssey, Avenger, Guardian, and Eclipse. Because that makes no godsdamned sense and anyone not blinded by attachment and nostalgia knows it. She shouldn't be as good as newer ships built to replace her. Maybe, like the venerable old C-130 and B-52 and such maybe she might find a niche role that she excels in and be the go to ship for that purpose, but she should never go toe to toe with the best of the best anymore. That time is long past.
And once again, you have entirely misunderstood the design philosophy of the GCS: flexibility.
A C-130 or a B-52 is good at one thing, and one thing only, that being respectively carrying cargo and dropping lots of very big bombs. A cargo plane is simplicity itself: the basic concept (hollow tube with good engines) hasn't changed since the Ford Trimotor if not earlier. The C-130 stays around because the job hasn't changed and it isn't cost-effective to use the C-5 for everything. Meanwhile the B-52 doesn't get much use anymore because current conflicts require precision instead of saturation, something an F-35, Reaper drone, or Tomahawk missile is much better at.
The GCS is a multipurpose vessel, equally capable of long-endurance exploration missions and ambassadorial duties as it is at being a line battleship or troop and materiel transport. This is a ship class where they didn't even bother to finish 70% of its internal volume to leave it free for specific missions. Need more power to take down a Vaad dreadnought? Stuff in an extra reactor and shield generator. Have to transport a ****ton of refugees through dangerous space? Convert the undeveloped space to passenger quarters.
PS: In my headcanon, Con-Rs in modern spec and build are still flying in large number as the modern replacement for the Oberth pure science class, named for NASA and other golden age of human space exploration craft and programs of the past. While our new awesome hero ships are blazing trails and blowing up badguys, the descendants of the original Enterprise are quietly and with great dignity orbiting anomalies and unexplored planets, collecting data and cataloging natural phenomena and mapping out nebulas and star systems and planets. Doing science. Turning the unknown into the known.
Sorry. Your headcanon was superseded by VOY: "Equinox". That's the Nova-class's job, a ship that is far cheaper to build and operate (for starters, it requires less than a quarter of the crew). The Connie has been entirely retired: there's only one that's ever even been seen in TNG or later, and that was when a peacetime Starfleet was scrambling everything in the vicinity to intercept Locutus at Wolf 359, meaning it was probably a ship sitting in Earth orbit as a trainer for Starfleet Academy.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
That's not true. There are no T6 versions of Excelsior, Defiant, Sovereign, or Odyssey. The T5 versions of many of them lag behind the later and Fleet T5s that were upgradeable to T5U. If it can't be upgraded to T5U, it is NOT an endgame ship anymore.
So, of the hero ships all you have for argument is Pathfinder, which is a brand new ship that just happens to be skinnable with a Voyager appearance package. It's still not an Intrepid, and it's not an older ship at all. So the most traction you'll get is for a Galaxy or Galaxy style skin for the Guardian --a concept I have agreed with.
Dude, WTF?!!?
Why did you even start this thread if you happen to agree with us?? Did you missunderstand us??
If you agree for a Galaxy skin on the Guardian then this discussion and this thread is over - none of us asked for anything more than that, we asked for less in fact. If they enable the Galaxy Class skin on the Guardian just like they did with the Intrepid skin on the Pathfinder - all of us, every single person in the big "Galaxy threads" will throw a party! I love the Guradian's layout, but the proportions look weird to me and the thrid impulse engine in the middle backside was a dealbreaker for me. If I could use the Galaxy skin, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and be done with it.
P.S. All the aforementioned old ships can be upgraded to T5-U, so end game level: Kumari, D'Kyr, T'Varo, Xindi Escort, Xindi Carrier, Ambassador, Excelsior, Constellation, Olympic, B'rel, K'tinga....all of them, probably missed a few.
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there are a lot of useless trap skills in the game, eng just happens to have the most. wile having no system cooldown variety at low levels, and having near nothing but garbage higher up, it certainly needs the most help.
By the time of TNG and DS9 the Excelsior had been in service for well over 100 years. By the time this game takes place even longer than that. The Miranda and Constitution class designs are even older the the Excelsior and still are in service. So the logic that people should just "move on" is your logic alone. I personally love the galaxy class design and as such have picked up the cstore galaxy and galaxy x. Your entire post essentially boils down to this, "I don't like the galaxy class and because of that people shouldn't get a better version of the ship."
By your logic someone who likes a classic car such as the first Shelby Cobras should just move on should just move on and buy the modern version simply because you don't like the older version. Your entire argument is made from the arrogant position that because you don't like it everyone else shouldn't be given a better version of it. To expand on my Cobra example a bit more, you're essentially saying that a person shouldn't be able to restore an older Cobra because you don't like it and should be made to buy the new version.
What you don't understand is that to some people age doesn't matter. Some people like what they like, and in this instance some people like the Galaxy class. Furthermore you obviously never saw DS9 if you think the galaxy class is weak. The Galaxy class had the ability to have families onboard but could also be reconfigured to make them into even more of a battleship. In fact the galaxy class even had their own attack wings due to their power. If you want an example of the power of the Galaxy then watch the DS9 episode Sacrifice of Angels and watch how the 2 Galaxies put away that Galor and keep rolling. Furthermore watch the Battle of Chintoka. The USS Galaxy which gets shot up by the turrets wasn't destroyed in the battle but kept on fighting and was still around until later. The Enterprise-D was destroyed by the Brel because the Duras sisters used Geordi to spy on the ship and get their shield frequency. When you can bypass a ship's shields in a case like that, you're foolish to think that a ship as weak as an old Brel couldn't do major damage.
The Sovereign is indeed a beautiful ship. By your logic I could also say you should move on from the Sovereign design and just fly an Odyssey. All of the ships deserve some love, not just the Sovereign and ships like it. If you don't like the Galaxy that's on you, but you do not have the right to demand we not be given a better version of the ship simply because you have decided you don't like it.
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Pretty much sums up the problem for Engineering.
Personally I tend to always forget the cooldown variety problem... But it' also huge - But 3 engineering BOs are basically useless because of all the shared cooldowns. You will have way too much overlap. It's completely opposite to Science, where you could probably have 4 science BOs and still find neat stuff to slot. (Hazard Emitters, Science Team, Transfer Shield Strength, Polarize Hull and Tractor Beam are all usefull powers - and the overlap between HE and PH means little because HE has such a long Global.)
DAAAAAAAAAM!!
I don't got much of a horse in this fight. Voyager is kind of "my" Trek and I'm pretty much meh toward TOS and TNG.
That is really all I had to say. Just like wow.
Endgame Connie and Miranda have been vetoed by CBS. That's the end of it. The way this game is now, with us flying Undine ships of all things, I've frankly given up caring what people fly as long as they don't turn up in an Elite STF with a T1. If it was up to me, you could have your damn museum piece Connie Refit, but it's not up to me.
Also, you falsely assume that the 50-year-old Galaxies were the only ones built. Simple math dictates that's false: There were only six in the original production run, of which three were destroyed, and yet there were at least twelve shown in establishing shots in DS9. Starfleet kept building more of them. And as I mentioned earlier, the specs do not stay constant throughout the production lifetime: that's why it's called a "class" of ship.
So, you can shove your GCS hate up your TRIBBLE.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
TL;DR - I'm soooo butthurt because of what some sensless people told me in 1988. :rolleyes:
Back under the bridge with you now.
My advice: See a shrink about your deep emotional issues you seem to have. Or a specialist to pull that broomstick out of your TRIBBLE.
I have seen the Excelsior dance like an escort. The thought of the Galaxy doing the same makes me taste bile.
HOWEVER, Cryptic's great wisdom has turned the area around earth space dock into a random assortment of Dominion, Breen, Cardassian, Species 8472, Voth, Vaudwar, Kobali, Ferengi, etc etc ships all commanded by Starfleet officers ... so so really cares if a ship is too old anymore?
I'd honostly rather see a Tier 6 NX-01 than another enemy alien vessel.
^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
And the Intrepid and Akira did make similar jumps. (Akira from Tier 3 to Tier 5, Intrepid from Tier 4 to Tier 5 and Tier 6 now.)
Meh. I think it should have a Lt.Cmdr Science slot. It's an Exploration Cruiser. That would fit the bill more than a Lt.Cmdr Tactical or Lt. Cmdr Engineering slot.
Of course, a Tier 6 version could have any combination here and would probably be great.
But unfortunately, when Cryptic made these ships initially, the principle for Tier 5 ships was this:
Escort was linked to Tactical slots, Cruisers with Engineering, Science Vessel with Science slots.
At Tier 5, a ship needed one Cmdr and one Lt.Cmdr slot that was linked with its class, and one Lt. slot for the classes it was not linked with, and then each ship would get an Ensign of one of the off-classes.
Then they added the first Retrofits, and the logical gap that existed for the Cruisers was a ship with an Ensign Engineer, since Tactical (=> Assault Cruiser) and Science (=> Star Cruiser) were already occupied.
And so we were stuck with that choice.
In the whole shuffle, back in those days, the real winner IMO was the Intrepid. Tactical Team was still a useless power back then, the Tactical Escort Retrofit had a terrible BO layout, too (one that the Klingon Raptor had to deal with, too). But there were and still are plenty of good ensign science powers.
While the Con-R was being shown on screen longer, the Galaxy has more screen time than any Enterprise to date. Yet, the Constitution has been in service for nearly sixty years (2240s to 2290s), plus with a Constitution Refit at Wolf 359. Technically, it doesn't really matter in terms of STO game play since we have T'Varos, T'Liss, K'tingas, and D'kyrs flying around.
A T6 Galaxy can get by fine with an Lt. Uni and an Lt. Hybrid seat on either the Lt. Tac or Lt. Sci seat and would still serve in its role as a Jack-of-all-Trades Cruiser without any drama or edging out any of its T6 contemporaries, which is the crux of that issue. An old ship shouldn't be quite able to match newer ships in terms of capability (which are also Cryptic's current pet sellers; namely the Odyssey and the Guardian), but still be close enough to be a worthwhile alternative.
With that said, I personally wouldn't care whether or not a T6 Galaxy got an Lt.Cmdr Tac or Sci seat, since it'd still wouldn't match up against the Odyssey or the Guardian. But like I said earlier, it's highly doubtful when we have precedence set by the Pathfinder, and with the fact that an Lt.Cmdr Tac or Sci seat might be considered too close to the Guardian for Cryptic's liking.
Regardless, I think Cryptic should also buff a few of the Rank III Engineering Space abilities like I mentioned previously, and add a Commander Rank III only super ability like a variant of "Built to Last" (Tac could get a variation of Attack Pattern Tuvok, and Sci gets... I don't know; either something hilariously OP like a combo GW1+TR1 w/o either overriding each other like normal GW/TR sometimes do but sharing CD with GW and TR, or something hilariously UP like Feedback Pulse 1 + Energy Siphon 1). It would go a ways towards making flying any kind of cruiser ship more palatable, and at least give Engineering Space abilities at least one or two decent offensive abilities (besides EWP3, which is highly situational as-is on slow cruisers).
lol, production dates are the last thing you want to use for justification. the galaxy was featured very prominently all throughout DS9, even voyager was able to feature it multiple times. and enterprise? a GCS is the last thing you see on screen in televised canon! LOL!
ships only get retired when their bones get to old, or some part of its design prevents modernization refits without structural rebuilding. all the internals and systems on even the oldest possible refit galaxy class in 2410, which would just be 47 years at the very most, are top of the line modern, and no new tech has come along that cant be fitted easily. they were probably building galaxies into the 2380s, if not 2390s. no one in universe in 2410 would think galaxy when someone says antiquated or outdated. they would be thought of like an ambassador was in the 2360, not the most top of the line but still in the top 3 of heaviest classes.
if the intrepid is a template, and it most surely is, a tier 6 galaxy would be like so
COM eng
LTC eng
LT tac*
LT sci
LT uni
the tac LT would be the hybrid seat, because a tier 6 defiant wouldn't have a LT tac, it would have to have a hybrid sci, because the intrepid already has a hybrid eng.
basically the samsar's boff seating
indeed. i think the optimal and most canon friendly layout would be more like this for the tier 6
COM eng
LTC uni
LT eng
LT sci
LT uni
the galaxy couldn't be less of a COM+LTC eng ship, let alone a +ENS on top of that. flexibility(universal stations) was the name of the game.
with this, it could be massively sci heavy, like the enterprise was, or serve as a battle ship with high tac load out. you could have a LTC+LT of ether tac or sci with this layout, or any other combo. i think i might prefer a LTC tac + 2 LT sci myself with this to work with.
- oh look, another NX class just flew by...
:rolleyes:
Kumari. Xindi escort. Excelsior. Ambassador D'kyr. All of these ships are older than the Galaxy and perform better. Some are even comparable to the Avenger, Odyssey, Guardian and Eclipse. I agree that by your logic, the Constitution should also have a repurposed T5 version like you said. But it's time to flush your idiotic non-argument of obsolescence down the toilet where it belongs.
still a bunch of BS. this is the star trek amusement park known as sto were everything but the connie can be an end game ship. it has never really mattered how deserving or uneserving a ship is for end game position, regardless of any litany of reasons for or against.
there should not suddenly be some policy change when someone brings up a tier 6 galaxy.
A C-130 or a B-52 is good at one thing, and one thing only, that being respectively carrying cargo and dropping lots of very big bombs. A cargo plane is simplicity itself: the basic concept (hollow tube with good engines) hasn't changed since the Ford Trimotor if not earlier. The C-130 stays around because the job hasn't changed and it isn't cost-effective to use the C-5 for everything. Meanwhile the B-52 doesn't get much use anymore because current conflicts require precision instead of saturation, something an F-35, Reaper drone, or Tomahawk missile is much better at.
The GCS is a multipurpose vessel, equally capable of long-endurance exploration missions and ambassadorial duties as it is at being a line battleship or troop and materiel transport. This is a ship class where they didn't even bother to finish 70% of its internal volume to leave it free for specific missions. Need more power to take down a Vaad dreadnought? Stuff in an extra reactor and shield generator. Have to transport a ****ton of refugees through dangerous space? Convert the undeveloped space to passenger quarters.
Sorry. Your headcanon was superseded by VOY: "Equinox". That's the Nova-class's job, a ship that is far cheaper to build and operate (for starters, it requires less than a quarter of the crew). The Connie has been entirely retired: there's only one that's ever even been seen in TNG or later, and that was when a peacetime Starfleet was scrambling everything in the vicinity to intercept Locutus at Wolf 359, meaning it was probably a ship sitting in Earth orbit as a trainer for Starfleet Academy.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
*facepalm*
Dude, WTF?!!?
Why did you even start this thread if you happen to agree with us?? Did you missunderstand us??
If you agree for a Galaxy skin on the Guardian then this discussion and this thread is over - none of us asked for anything more than that, we asked for less in fact. If they enable the Galaxy Class skin on the Guardian just like they did with the Intrepid skin on the Pathfinder - all of us, every single person in the big "Galaxy threads" will throw a party! I love the Guradian's layout, but the proportions look weird to me and the thrid impulse engine in the middle backside was a dealbreaker for me. If I could use the Galaxy skin, I'd buy it in a heartbeat and be done with it.
P.S. All the aforementioned old ships can be upgraded to T5-U, so end game level: Kumari, D'Kyr, T'Varo, Xindi Escort, Xindi Carrier, Ambassador, Excelsior, Constellation, Olympic, B'rel, K'tinga....all of them, probably missed a few.