Can't be, at least im 99% sure. Reason being (well the ones I can tell you) that the Odyssey has been described as a star cruiser on its original release and 3 other terms depending on which C-Store version we are talking about.
And even so, there would be zero sense in a single tier 6 Odyssey. You would have to make another 3 pack. This is a single ship coming up.
And finally, the Klingons supposedly get a new Negh'Var. What is the Negh'vars 'counterpart of in this game? The Galaxy.
Wait. Last time i checked the Neghvar was t5. The Galaxy was t4. The galaxy's equivalent was the vorcha.
Th Galaxy then got a t5 refit. And was put parallel to the neghvar.
At launch, the t5 crusiers for starfleet were Assault cruiser and Star cruiser.
Wait. Last time i checked the Neghvar was t5. The Galaxy was t4. The galaxy's equivalent was the vorcha.
Th Galaxy then got a t5 refit. And was put parallel to the neghvar.
At launch, the t5 crusiers for starfleet were Assault cruiser and Star cruiser.
Right? or is my memory foggy?
I wasn't referring to the low tier ships, should have been more clear about it, my bad!
I meant the fleet versions. Both the fleet exploration and Negh'var have virtually identical layouts, except the Negh'var has a slightly better BOFF layout and is obviously a battlecruiser. But the console assortment and stats are much more similar. Just like the Galaxy, the Negh'var was the most engineering heavy cruiser and both had ridicolously high hull HP at the time they were made, way above average for their factions.
The Fleet Tor'kaht (Vor'cha) doesn't resemble the fleet Galaxy at all, its a totally different boat.
For that reason, I see the Galaxy and Negh'var as counterparts at fleet level.
And what if this "explorer" was in fact... a tier6 odyssey?
Well, we have quite a bit of evidence that a galaxy is coming.
1) The Galaxy console set was accidentally a 3 piece for about a day.
2) The Galaxy consoles have been reset to 'Any Exploration Cruiser or Dreadnought Cruiser variant'
3) The hypothetical leaked image looks way more like a Galaxy then the Odyssey.
4) In a live stream it was stated 'The Galaxy would be an awesome ship to have command powers, wouldn't she?'
5) We're seeing an upgraded Negh'var model and hypothetical leaked image - and the Negh'var is a contemporary of the Galaxy. They've always been very similar.
I'm hoping when they do Fleet T6 they give the non intell ships some more hybrid stations, LT vs Cmd hybrid is kinda a large gap. Atleast give them 2 LT or a LTC. Just to make them a little more appealing vs full intell/cmd ships.
The case could be made a T6 galaxy should have both intell and cmd hybrids in some fashion. The galaxy was shown to have massive firepower from its arrays, like surgical strikes, and very adaptive power output like OSS. But in DS9 it was also shown to be the backbone of the large fleets providing support and manuvering in a fleet like the Cmd abilities.
Id say T6 galaxy should look kinda like.
Cmd eng
Ltc eng/intell
Ltc Tac
Lt sci
Ens sci
Consoles 4 eng/3 sci/3 tac
Trait - Burst photon torpedo tubes. Your energy weapons have a 1% chance to tigger Photon torpedo volley, fires 5 mk 12 photon torpedos at your target. Can't occur more then once every 30 seconds.
While this gives it a higher hybrid then the Guardian, it also is less flexable by not having a LTC sci. Leaving both ships unique AND useful.
Then give the Fleet T6 galaxy.
Cmd Eng
Ltc eng/intell
Ltc Tac
Lt sci/cmd
Ens sci
Consoles 5 eng/3 sci/ 3 tac
And the Fleet Guardian.
Cmd Eng
Ltc Tac
Ltc Sci/cmd
Lt eng/intell
Ens uni
Basicly makes them close mirrors of one another gives them both unique roles without stepping all over every other ship. Would also keep them pretty balanced against full spec ships like the Eclipse/Cmd ships that get access to CMD level hybrid abilites. The T6 D'D and Neg'var could follow similar/copy the T6 G-R but with different console layouts. Also Include the Gal-X costume and the DS-9 venture refit necells for the T6 Galaxy if you own the G-X, as well as the Venture T4 refit skin if owned. And FIX the offset on the Galaxy X parts FFS!
The Intrepid and defiant would be prime examples of Fleet 2x hybrids. The intrepid showed intell and pilot, and the defiant did as well. Give the defiant a trait for dual quantum torpedos like, your enegy weapons have a 1% chance to trigger quantum barrage, fire 2 sets of dual mk 13 quantum torpedos can not occur more then once every 30 seconds shares same lockout timer with Photon torpedo volley from T6 galaxy so that they couldnt stack.
PLEASE NOTE:
I based the idea of having 2 diff fleet hybrids off the Fleet level T6 Jem bug.
I'd give the T6 D'D and Neg'var both the trait from the Guardian since they dont have much in the way of healing traits.
I'm hoping when they do Fleet T6 they give the non intell ships some more hybrid stations, LT vs Cmd hybrid is kinda a large gap. Atleast give them 2 LT or a LTC. Just to make them a little more appealing vs full intell/cmd ships.
The case could be made a T6 galaxy should have both intell and cmd hybrids in some fashion. The galaxy was shown to have massive firepower from its arrays, like surgical strikes, and very adaptive power output like OSS. But in DS9 it was also shown to be the backbone of the large fleets providing support and manuvering in a fleet like the Cmd abilities.
...
Yeah, when i first saw those powers i instantly thought that they should belong to the GCS.
But be sure, they will never give the GCS access to it.
Instead they will give her the more team based command powers to the GCS, because DS9 (the devs fav. show) always wins in case of doubt, lol. :rolleyes: IF they give the GCS anything at all, of course.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Aceton Beam turned into a targeted AoE, space version of Hyperonic Radiation and Weapon Malfuntction, eh? Would make it great for area debuffing and projectile destruction. Shorter cooldown, to boot.
But seriously, push for Engi powers to get a rework guys. High level ones really aren't worth it ATM. This will help the Galaxy immensely. It's sucky in the current meta because it has a lot of high level Engi abilities. High level Engi abilities are sucky in the current meta because only two provide weapon-enhancing effects, both of which can be used at Lt or lower for just slightly less effect. The other two abilities that damage opponents either require you to fly into them (and whatever high yield torpedoes they're throwing around) and get in at knifefighting distance or require you to wait 2 minutes to use again for an effect that's hardly noticeable when enemies have millions of hitpoints in both shields and hull.
theg alaxy was, when it left, the most modern, most powerful, most advanced starship build. it was the flagship design. and it still held its place as extraordinary resilient ship (due to shields and power for structural integrity fields) and after its dominion war refits it still held its place as resilient fleet leading ship.
but the galaxy never was a tactical heavy ship. it was meant to withstand, not to "kill and shoot"
thats why the galaxy is heavily eng focussed.
this is perfectly canon.
the problem is, likem any mentioned: the game is designed around killing only, and eng is completely useless to whatsoever buff damage at all. basically it should be possible with engineering to modify engery weapons more, so we have and engineering techniques modifiing them. somehow that sneaked into intel and command (life supp and override safeties)
the problem everyone cries for tac slots is just the game environment "encouraging" or highly suggesting damge over strategy (eject plasma) and science and movement enhancements.
would tehre be a viable benefit of having "tanks" in the game, it would be a major seller.
but so far tanks are only "as good as tac, but it takes longer" cause theres no balance in dmg taking and damage giving.
(so having 5 tacs is still as good as having 1eng, 3tac and 1sci, because 5 tacs are so much faster, tactic and grouping (gravwells9 dont matter anymore and dmg income is simply reduced by killing things faster, BETTER than having someone "tanking" it)
personally, I don't have an issue with the galaxy being engineering heavy. lets be honest. Starfleet is heavy engineering and science period. even "combat focused" ships like the avenger are engineering heavy. the sci ships too are engineering heavy after science.
the problem I have is that the dreadnought should get a bit more than a 2 slot tac seat and a single slot universal seat. its a pay ship too, granted, that's gonna be the universal. the ship suffers tactically.
as it is, the gal x can be hard to take down because the engineering seats make it easy to have a LOT of hull heals. the scis can handle shield heals.
Ten bucks it gets the T6 Intrepid treatment, but with a Command seat, as in...
CMD Eng
LTC Eng
Lt Sci/Command (Intrepid has a Lt Eng/Intel)
Lt Tac
Lt Universal (Replaces old Ens Eng)
Probable 5 Eng/3 Sci/2 Tac console layout, gains 1 Tac Console when upgraded to Fleet (Intel ships, including Dauntless, Intrepid, and Guardian are still not at Fleet level)
No idea what the new console is going to be. Possible Deflector Beam from Best of Both Worlds?
I'm hoping there's a suitably awesome trait included.
doesn't the gal x currently gain a 2nd sci console slot in the fleet ver a 5th eng slot for t5u?
Aceton Beam turned into a targeted AoE, space version of Hyperonic Radiation and Weapon Malfuntction, eh? Would make it great for area debuffing and projectile destruction. Shorter cooldown, to boot.
But seriously, push for Engi powers to get a rework guys. High level ones really aren't worth it ATM. This will help the Galaxy immensely. It's sucky in the current meta because it has a lot of high level Engi abilities. High level Engi abilities are sucky in the current meta because only two provide weapon-enhancing effects, both of which can be used at Lt or lower for just slightly less effect. The other two abilities that damage opponents either require you to fly into them (and whatever high yield torpedoes they're throwing around) and get in at knifefighting distance or require you to wait 2 minutes to use again for an effect that's hardly noticeable when enemies have millions of hitpoints in both shields and hull.
we push for a simple solution back then, get the 3nd eng power of the galaxy to be universal.
it didn't work.... for that ship anyway.
so if a revamp of engi power happened it will not be the result of us pushing for it but just cryptic that decided to do so on it own.
in fact we are debating here and then but it is just for the sake of the argument, because nothing that have been propose on these threads about galaxy over the years have been use to enhanced the galaxy, some bo layout have been used to create other ship yes, but not the galaxy.
so no matter how fun it is to show that we are still here, there is almost 0 impact in cryptic office.
until they prove me otherwise.
Whichever way you choose to interpret, on-screen evidence shows that the phaser charge-up can have both start points not be at the end of the phaser strip. DS9: "Sacrifice of Angels" is the first one to come to mind, as well as TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise". The groups you refer to may change depending on the position and movement of the starship and its target.
that's what I believe. I believe that the "array" is the entire phaser array, which ever size it may be. and that primary feeds are on either end. each end can feed as much as 70% of the amount needed to fire. this slack allows for imbalances in the feeds or outright failure. if failed, you still get reduced power shots at the normal rate, or full power shots at a slower cyclic rate. the largest arrays might have auxiliary feeds, but the redundant feeds consist of the two primary feeds.
Energy converges. Or, in other words, the sum of energy.
More discharged segments results in a larger sum of energy at the firing point.
Therefore, since the Galaxy has a greater number of emitters in its main array(s), it has a larger potential sum of energy.
until you reach the throughput of the array.
I get a chuckle out of people saying that the large size of that array means something. its large size is to give the greatest possible firing arc of the primary array.
the major possible blind spots the main arrays could have would be at the extreme zero elevation angle of the saucer. both the dorsal and ventral arrays would be firing at maximum depression to fire along that axis. it would probably be standard practice to keep potential targets either just above or just below the same plane as the saucer to allow good firing angles form the main arrays. every other angle on the ship has good redundant coverage by the main arrays and the various secondary arrays all over the star drive.
if anything, the saucer has a somewhat better forward firing arc since the docking plate array is on a steeper angle. the flipside of that is the lower forward arc then has to be covered by the belly array and maybe the two ventral arrays at the extreme stern or either of the lower nacelle arrays.
I wasn't referring to the low tier ships, should have been more clear about it, my bad!
I meant the fleet versions. Both the fleet exploration and Negh'var have virtually identical layouts, except the Negh'var has a slightly better BOFF layout and is obviously a battlecruiser. But the console assortment and stats are much more similar. Just like the Galaxy, the Negh'var was the most engineering heavy cruiser and both had ridicolously high hull HP at the time they were made, way above average for their factions.
The Fleet Tor'kaht (Vor'cha) doesn't resemble the fleet Galaxy at all, its a totally different boat.
For that reason, I see the Galaxy and Negh'var as counterparts at fleet level.
can we really use kdf ships for comparison though? kdf ships are generally far more tactical in their boff layouts, if they don't outright use a bunch of universal seats.
if anything, the fed are more restrictive on their layouts since they are nearly always skewed towards engineering or scince and then engineering.
A typical large phaser array aboard the USS Enterprise, such as the upper dorsal array on the Saucer Module, consists of two hundred emitter segments in a dense linear arrangement for optimal control of firing order, thermal effects, field halos, and target impact.
arrays are made up of many emitters segments, and every one of them can act independently of the rest of the array, or since they are arranged in a dense linear arrangement, or array, can act in unison.
Groups of emitters are supplied by redundant sets of energy feeds from the primary trunks of the electro plasma system (EPS), and are similarly interconnected by fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines. The visible hull surface configuration of the phaser is along shallow raised strip, the bulk of the hardware submerged within the vehicle frame.
groups of emitters, not entire arrays. redundant sets of energy feeds, as in there are a ton of connections to power, so many that its redundant. multiple primary trunkS of the EPS system are connected to it. fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines are all networked as well.
In cross section, the phaser array takes on a thickened Y shape, capped with a trapezoidal mass of the actual emitter crystal and phaser-transparent hull antierosion coatings. The base of an array segment sits within a structural honeycomb channel of duranium 235 and supplied with supersonic regenerative LN2cooling. The complete channel is thermally isolated by eight hundred link struts to the tritanium vehicle frame.
The first stage of the array segment is the EPS submaster flow regulator, the principal mechanism controlling phaser power levels for firing. The flow regulator leads into the plasma distribution manifold (PDM), which branches into two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers. The final stage of the system is the phaser emitter crystal."
it mentioned two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers, when its talking specifically about the 200 emitter large array on a GCS. each emitter has a pipe leading off from primary trunks running to it, this is were the evidence gets really damning. this further confirming how complete each emitter segment is. each segment has its own supply conduit and prefire chamber, to contribute its own energy to a combined shot. the EPS submaster flow regulator controls power flowing through emitters to set the strength of a shot.
what does that look like in practice?
from here you actually watch the show. you see a moving glow effect on the array, from here there are several factors that could dictate output.
1. how much of the array participates in the moving glow effect indicates how many emitters were involved supplying power to the shot. sometimes you will see the whole array involved, sometimes just a small portion. given that each emitter contributes power with its supply conduit and prefire chamber, this is the most rock solid indicator of a shot's firepower.
2. other possible factors could be the speed at which a glow moves on the array, that could limit how much power any emitter is able to contribute to the shot.
3. a glow might look very small, or look very large like it stretcher across many emitters as it moves along the array, this may also gauge how much power each emitter is contributing.
TL;DR
-arrays are made up of sometimes hundreds of emitters, the longer an array, the more emitters it has
-each emitter segment for all intents and purposes is a complete phaser bank, with its own EPS lead to draw power from
-there is a moving glow effect in the show, indicating power is being gathered from emitters to the point a shot is fired from
-therefor, array length and number of emitters in an array have an additive effect on how strong an array's most powerful shot can be.
-this is how ALL phaser arrays work, regardless of emitter mk
can we really use kdf ships for comparison though? kdf ships are generally far more tactical in their boff layouts, if they don't outright use a bunch of universal seats.
if anything, the fed are more restrictive on their layouts since they are nearly always skewed towards engineering or scince and then engineering.
You want to talk about TAC layouts? I think you're quite wrong in your perceptions. Clearly you don't play multiple factions. KDF ships are not more tactical in their BOFF layouts. At T5 upwards:
How many KDF Cruisers have at least LtCdr TAC stations?
T5 Mogh*
T5 Fleet Vor'Cha*
T5 Bortasqu'*
T6 Qib*
T6 Command FDC*
What about the Feds?
T5 Excelsior
T5 Regent
T5 Odyssey
T5 Avenger*
T6 Eclipse*
T6 Guardian
T6 Command FDC*
*= DHC capable
That's 5 KDF vs 7 Fed TAC oriented Cruisers. As you can see, the Feds have way more TAC oriented Cruisers. The KDF's very few TAC oriented Cruisers are all DHC capable.
Let's go into Escorts. Because this is going to be HI-LA-RI-OUS. Escorts pretty much have the requisite TAC heavy BOFF layouts. So the difference really is now down to TAC Console Slots. Oh this is going to be funny... 5 TAC KDF Escorts
T5U Somraw Raptor (not the regular Fleet version; Only T5U)
T5U Fleet Qin Raptor (same as Somraw situation)
T6 Mat'ha Raptor
Zero Birds of Prey with 5 TAC Consoles even at T5U (because I want to throw that out there) 5 TAC Fed Escorts?
T5 Fleet Defiant (5 TAC by default, not necessary for T5U)
T5 Fleet Prometheus (same as Defiant)
T5U Fleet Saber
T5U Fleet Akira
T5 Tempest (packs a whallop still and can take it also)
The KDF didn't get a T5 Escort with 5 TAC Consoles until the Upgrade Tokens late 2014. The Feds on the other hand had 5 TAC Escorts for years with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus while the KDF had none. Then on top of that, they got the Tempest last year, making it 3 5 TAC Escorts before DR while the KDF still had ZERO.
Now, let's go into Science Vessels. How many Science Vessels with LtCdr TAC stations on them? KDF? Simple.
DSD... And that's it. Fed Sci Vessels capable of LtCdr TAC? LOLOLOL!
T5 DSD
T5 Vesta/Besta
T5 Nova
T6 Dauntless
So... You tell me with facts, which faction has more TAC oriented ships?
Non-Galaxy related i was informed theres a new skin on Tribble for the Negh'Var, Haven't seen it for myself yet as Tribble doesn't want to load past the start up screen without crashing to desktop.
Anyone able to confirm this and any changes on the Galaxy side to match the Negh'Var
Non-Galaxy related i was informed theres a new skin on Tribble for the Negh'Var, Haven't seen it for myself yet as Tribble doesn't want to load past the start up screen without crashing to desktop.
Anyone able to confirm this and any changes on the Galaxy side to match the Negh'Var
Actually the new Negh'Var skins are Holodeck already. I've been flying around in a Mirror Negh'Var with the fangs and the large under-wing cannons that were previously unavailable.
I think the reason we haven't seen a new Galaxy skin yet is because the new Negh'Var skin is unlikely to be the skin for the T6 version. It's most likely that they're just sweetening the pot for Klingon players by going back to the old Negh'Var model and fixing some of its most glaring mistakes so we'll (speaking as someone whose main is a Klingon) have more interesting pieces to kitbash when they finally release the actual T6 ship with its entirely new model.
As the Galaxy's model had fewer of these really big and glaring flaws (I think so, at least - I can't seem to find the thread that compared the ingame models to the canon models) they have less of a reason to fix their original design, meaning that you're likely to only see a new look for the Galaxy when more info on the T6 version is released.
But I think a Galaxy model overhaul is not too far off now
EDIT: The Mirror Negh'Var just sprung to my mind. Maybe, just maybe they pick that up and go for a LTC of different profession. Granted, this precedent is not as "hard" as the Pathfinder, but maybe, just maybe...
A Mirrow Negh'Var????? :eek: (if only there was an eye twitch emote)
ARE YE DAFT MAN?????
It would dwarf a Scimitar or a Sheshar!
The Regent's Ship made a Defiant look like a Fighter. Even moreso than the Prototype Jem'Hadar Battleship from Valiant (which is NOT the scale of that that we have available in game). To get the Regent's Negh'Var it would have to be the size of a Voth Citadeal Battleship.
there is a lot of really insightful knowledge of star trek in this thread alone, its been a fun read
but talking turkey just for a sec here,
bottom line, a T6 galaxy is on the way, but its going to be about as great "in the line up/choices" of T5 cruisers for T6
as in shes going to be kind of middle of the pack, low end of the pack, kind of a "meh" ship
we all know this, we all are expecting this, only fools pray for some massive (LOL) re-envisioning for this ship when her stats are made for T6
not going to happen
what complexes me, is why those that love the galaxy, those that know what here stats should basically look like for coming T6....
are not fighting right now for eng boff powers to get buffed
and I mean, really really, buffed like look at any dumb damaging eng power and come up with a reason that its underpowered, then sell the **** out of THAT on the forums daily then crossing your fingers for cryptic to magically ALTER what will be her stats, when we all know theres no way in hell they are going to do it, the ship sells it self on the fact that she is a hero ship, you got all that t5 history to take into account, and that cryptic needs folks to buy NEW ships, they wont make the galaxy a beast just to see a drop in sales for ships they wasted money and time to create from scratch..
anyways, that's my 2-cents on REALLY approaching making the galaxy a contender- you cant alter fate with what her boff and console layout is going to most likely look like, BUT you could lobby for a well, obvious BUFF to eng powers
sci's got sick dps boff powers, tacs got sick dps boff powers, intel, command, EVEN PILOT is going to have a great "sack you eng power to have no power loss to weapons while firing" ability.. LOL those of us that paid for marion can tell you that is a great boff power to have right there,
anyways, get traction moving on eng boff powers being buffed and you WILL have the kickass galaxy T6 you always wanted:)
Indeed, and some of the powers have been shifted around to other professions which really rustles my jimmies.
In the spirit of the Intel Power Override Subsystem Safeties, otherwise known as the Engineering power that was stolen, I think that ships should have bonuses for abilities. Specifically if you use an EPT? power then it should remove the power cap for that ability up to 170 like in OSS for that power only. This synergizes with the game canon that states that Cruisers have these huge warp cores that provide massive surpluses of power.
I get a chuckle out of people saying that the large size of that array means something. its large size is to give the greatest possible firing arc of the primary array.
the major possible blind spots the main arrays could have would be at the extreme zero elevation angle of the saucer. both the dorsal and ventral arrays would be firing at maximum depression to fire along that axis. it would probably be standard practice to keep potential targets either just above or just below the same plane as the saucer to allow good firing angles form the main arrays. every other angle on the ship has good redundant coverage by the main arrays and the various secondary arrays all over the star drive.
if anything, the saucer has a somewhat better forward firing arc since the docking plate array is on a steeper angle. the flipside of that is the lower forward arc then has to be covered by the belly array and maybe the two ventral arrays at the extreme stern or either of the lower nacelle arrays.
Indeed, the blindspots where the hull of the ship start interfering with the firing arcs is very tight in, really only a fighter would be able to access it, and also of important note, those blindspots are within the shield envelope. A target would have to fly inside of the shield bubble to escape the primary arrays. I think they would also have to fly right into the primary firing arc for the forward photon torpedo launcher.
You want to talk about TAC layouts? I think you're quite wrong in your perceptions. Clearly you don't play multiple factions. KDF ships are not more tactical in their BOFF layouts. At T5 upwards:
How many KDF Cruisers have at least LtCdr TAC stations?
T5 Mogh*
T5 Fleet Vor'Cha*
T5 Bortasqu'*
T6 Qib*
T6 Command FDC*
What about the Feds?
T5 Excelsior
T5 Regent
T5 Odyssey
T5 Avenger*
T6 Eclipse*
T6 Guardian
T6 Command FDC*
*= DHC capable
That's 5 KDF vs 7 Fed TAC oriented Cruisers. As you can see, the Feds have way more TAC oriented Cruisers. The KDF's very few TAC oriented Cruisers are all DHC capable.
Let's go into Escorts. Because this is going to be HI-LA-RI-OUS. Escorts pretty much have the requisite TAC heavy BOFF layouts. So the difference really is now down to TAC Console Slots. Oh this is going to be funny... 5 TAC KDF Escorts
T5U Somraw Raptor (not the regular Fleet version; Only T5U)
T5U Fleet Qin Raptor (same as Somraw situation)
T6 Mat'ha Raptor
Zero Birds of Prey with 5 TAC Consoles even at T5U (because I want to throw that out there) 5 TAC Fed Escorts?
T5 Fleet Defiant (5 TAC by default, not necessary for T5U)
T5 Fleet Prometheus (same as Defiant)
T5U Fleet Saber
T5U Fleet Akira
T5 Tempest (packs a whallop still and can take it also)
The KDF didn't get a T5 Escort with 5 TAC Consoles until the Upgrade Tokens late 2014. The Feds on the other hand had 5 TAC Escorts for years with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus while the KDF had none. Then on top of that, they got the Tempest last year, making it 3 5 TAC Escorts before DR while the KDF still had ZERO.
Now, let's go into Science Vessels. How many Science Vessels with LtCdr TAC stations on them? KDF? Simple.
DSD... And that's it. Fed Sci Vessels capable of LtCdr TAC? LOLOLOL!
T5 DSD
T5 Vesta/Besta
T5 Nova
T6 Dauntless
So... You tell me with facts, which faction has more TAC oriented ships?
It must be taken well into account for this argument that the Federation by default has FAR more ships than anyone else.
Wonder what all that works out to as a percentage of total ships.
Probably doesn't change much as the paradigm has been shifted towards servicing the DPS focus.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
A Mirrow Negh'Var????? :eek: (if only there was an eye twitch emote)
ARE YE DAFT MAN?????
It would dwarf a Scimitar or a Sheshar!
The Regent's Ship made a Defiant look like a Fighter. Even moreso than the Prototype Jem'Hadar Battleship from Valiant (which is NOT the scale of that that we have available in game). To get the Regent's Negh'Var it would have to be the size of a Voth Citadeal Battleship.
There's already a playable Mirror Negh'Var in game, but it's not the Regent's. Just a copy of our Prime one with a fancy paint job and the BOff layout rearranged to have some Eng spots converted to Lt. Comm Science spot and a Tac Ensign.
So... You tell me with facts, which faction has more TAC oriented ships?
a lot of good information, which was actually the point of my question. I don't devote enough money into the game to be able to answer this question first hand.
where I came from, the question was based on me seeing ships with a bunch of universal slots or plenty of tac slots. ships with a different focus then the fed ships I have. I have a relatively lower sample rate than you apparently do.
Originally Posted by darlexa View Post
until you reach the throughput of the array.
I get a chuckle out of people saying that the large size of that array means something. its large size is to give the greatest possible firing arc of the primary array.
the major possible blind spots the main arrays could have would be at the extreme zero elevation angle of the saucer. both the dorsal and ventral arrays would be firing at maximum depression to fire along that axis. it would probably be standard practice to keep potential targets either just above or just below the same plane as the saucer to allow good firing angles form the main arrays. every other angle on the ship has good redundant coverage by the main arrays and the various secondary arrays all over the star drive.
if anything, the saucer has a somewhat better forward firing arc since the docking plate array is on a steeper angle. the flipside of that is the lower forward arc then has to be covered by the belly array and maybe the two ventral arrays at the extreme stern or either of the lower nacelle arrays.
888
Indeed, the blindspots where the hull of the ship start interfering with the firing arcs is very tight in, really only a fighter would be able to access it, and also of important note, those blindspots are within the shield envelope. A target would have to fly inside of the shield bubble to escape the primary arrays. I think they would also have to fly right into the primary firing arc for the forward photon torpedo launcher.
the more I think about it, the more I think that the blind spot at the zero elevation angle of the saucer, that is to say, directly out from the lateral sensor array, has to a be a definite but very narrow plane were phaser fire coverage becomes an issue. the only thing that could possibly mitigate it is that the saucer arrays are mounted into the sloped sections of the saucer which could be the critical increase in the angle of the array to just above the minimum necessary to fire into the area directly out from the lateral sensor array.
and the possible dead spot for star drive makes me want to go back and check again for an array on the underside of the docking plate.
the forward torpedo tubes coverage is great into the forward arcs, but you never see how good its off-bore capability really is. the only example of off-bore firing is st6 which I think cant count too much since that was a very special situation.
especially on the galaxy, there's no arc that something larger then a fighter could hide in, from ether large massively powerful arrays, or 4 or 5 small ones. and they wouldn't be able to hide there for long, an angle tweek from the RCS thrusters would put anything in the line of fire.
the post nemisis soverign has all angles covered too, but significantly less with its most powerful arrays, and only something as large as a borg cube could be hit by both dorsal and ventral at the same time.
torpedoes are tracking, guided weapons, they shouldn't have firing arcs. if they really wanted to pelt something, they could probably discharge both aft and fore launchers at a target right in front of them.
the weapons on these ships are operated by computers that have subspace fields around their processors, so they can compute faster then what is physically possible. nothing in the sublight realm could dodge them, unless ships broadcast considerable sensor interference or run full on cloaks to counter it.
there most certainly wouldn't be a danger of a ship actually shooting its own torps or something massively stupid like that, i couldn't even, that that was being thrown around.
especially on the galaxy, there's no arc that something larger then a fighter could hide in, from ether large massively powerful arrays, or 4 or 5 small ones. and they wouldn't be able to hide there for long, an angle tweek from the RCS thrusters would put anything in the line of fire.
the post nemisis soverign has all angles covered too, but significantly less with its most powerful arrays, and only something as large as a borg cube could be hit by both dorsal and ventral at the same time.
torpedoes are tracking, guided weapons, they shouldn't have firing arcs. if they really wanted to pelt something, they could probably discharge both aft and fore launchers at a target right in front of them.
the weapons on these ships are operated by computers that have subspace fields around their processors, so they can compute faster then what is physically possible. nothing in the sublight realm could dodge them, unless ships broadcast considerable sensor interference or run full on cloaks to counter it.
there most certainly wouldn't be a danger of a ship actually shooting its own torps or something massively stupid like that, i couldn't even, that that was being thrown around.
I agree, the dead zones for the phaser arrays, if they exist, would be quite small. I think there is a high probably that there is enough slope top and bottom on the saucer where the arrays are installed that the arrays are angled enough that they can hit anything in the area along the edge of the saucer that isn't actually blocked by the hull.
originally i had stated that in the show, they tended to come to a halt relative to other ships with that other ship either well above or well below the ship's position. when looking at the main phaser arrays, I think i would support that. it would greatly improve firing solutions form the main arrays, and likely unmask additional arrays.
as for the torpedoes having a firing arc, you misunderstand. of course they are guided weapons, but their highest performance firing solutions would be the ones that are along an expanding cone centered on the bore axis of the launcher(s).
off bore firing is going to be a firing solution that has the torpedo turning outside of the cone to attack targets well off bore from the axis of the torpedo tube. the farther outside of the cone, the more performance you are going to have to make up using the torpedoes own drives instead of the energy imparted by the launcher.
an example would be using torpedoes to attack a target in the ship's broadside. the torpedo ends up having to expend a massive amount of energy in order to turn and still have the sort of speed to make it effective.
st6 was is a case in point. that torp acted more like a prob then a torpedo. not particularly fast, but the bird of prey seemed to only be able to use torps under cloak. a truly on the ball crew might have tried an intercept on that torp. even a proximity hit would have had a good chance at taking down that torp.
Comments
You know what? i have grown to like the odyssey, especially after seeing the shovel ships that are command cruisers and the guardian.
I certainly will not spend money on it, but i wont hate it.
The model grew on me the same way the Galaxy grew on m after i first saw it.
^^
In any case: i will be keeping money, cryptic won't get my money and everything is zen.
But hey, at least after player sto i have the knowledge about how it feels to have a dealer that just does not want your money, period.
And without a law infraction too.
Wait. Last time i checked the Neghvar was t5. The Galaxy was t4. The galaxy's equivalent was the vorcha.
Th Galaxy then got a t5 refit. And was put parallel to the neghvar.
At launch, the t5 crusiers for starfleet were Assault cruiser and Star cruiser.
Right? or is my memory foggy?
I wasn't referring to the low tier ships, should have been more clear about it, my bad!
I meant the fleet versions. Both the fleet exploration and Negh'var have virtually identical layouts, except the Negh'var has a slightly better BOFF layout and is obviously a battlecruiser. But the console assortment and stats are much more similar. Just like the Galaxy, the Negh'var was the most engineering heavy cruiser and both had ridicolously high hull HP at the time they were made, way above average for their factions.
The Fleet Tor'kaht (Vor'cha) doesn't resemble the fleet Galaxy at all, its a totally different boat.
For that reason, I see the Galaxy and Negh'var as counterparts at fleet level.
"Let them eat static!"
Well, we have quite a bit of evidence that a galaxy is coming.
1) The Galaxy console set was accidentally a 3 piece for about a day.
2) The Galaxy consoles have been reset to 'Any Exploration Cruiser or Dreadnought Cruiser variant'
3) The hypothetical leaked image looks way more like a Galaxy then the Odyssey.
4) In a live stream it was stated 'The Galaxy would be an awesome ship to have command powers, wouldn't she?'
5) We're seeing an upgraded Negh'var model and hypothetical leaked image - and the Negh'var is a contemporary of the Galaxy. They've always been very similar.
The case could be made a T6 galaxy should have both intell and cmd hybrids in some fashion. The galaxy was shown to have massive firepower from its arrays, like surgical strikes, and very adaptive power output like OSS. But in DS9 it was also shown to be the backbone of the large fleets providing support and manuvering in a fleet like the Cmd abilities.
Id say T6 galaxy should look kinda like.
Cmd eng
Ltc eng/intell
Ltc Tac
Lt sci
Ens sci
Consoles 4 eng/3 sci/3 tac
Trait - Burst photon torpedo tubes. Your energy weapons have a 1% chance to tigger Photon torpedo volley, fires 5 mk 12 photon torpedos at your target. Can't occur more then once every 30 seconds.
While this gives it a higher hybrid then the Guardian, it also is less flexable by not having a LTC sci. Leaving both ships unique AND useful.
Then give the Fleet T6 galaxy.
Cmd Eng
Ltc eng/intell
Ltc Tac
Lt sci/cmd
Ens sci
Consoles 5 eng/3 sci/ 3 tac
And the Fleet Guardian.
Cmd Eng
Ltc Tac
Ltc Sci/cmd
Lt eng/intell
Ens uni
Basicly makes them close mirrors of one another gives them both unique roles without stepping all over every other ship. Would also keep them pretty balanced against full spec ships like the Eclipse/Cmd ships that get access to CMD level hybrid abilites. The T6 D'D and Neg'var could follow similar/copy the T6 G-R but with different console layouts. Also Include the Gal-X costume and the DS-9 venture refit necells for the T6 Galaxy if you own the G-X, as well as the Venture T4 refit skin if owned. And FIX the offset on the Galaxy X parts FFS!
The Intrepid and defiant would be prime examples of Fleet 2x hybrids. The intrepid showed intell and pilot, and the defiant did as well. Give the defiant a trait for dual quantum torpedos like, your enegy weapons have a 1% chance to trigger quantum barrage, fire 2 sets of dual mk 13 quantum torpedos can not occur more then once every 30 seconds shares same lockout timer with Photon torpedo volley from T6 galaxy so that they couldnt stack.
PLEASE NOTE:
I based the idea of having 2 diff fleet hybrids off the Fleet level T6 Jem bug.
I'd give the T6 D'D and Neg'var both the trait from the Guardian since they dont have much in the way of healing traits.
But be sure, they will never give the GCS access to it.
Instead they will give her the more team based command powers to the GCS, because DS9 (the devs fav. show) always wins in case of doubt, lol. :rolleyes:
IF they give the GCS anything at all, of course.
Aceton Beam turned into a targeted AoE, space version of Hyperonic Radiation and Weapon Malfuntction, eh? Would make it great for area debuffing and projectile destruction. Shorter cooldown, to boot.
But seriously, push for Engi powers to get a rework guys. High level ones really aren't worth it ATM. This will help the Galaxy immensely. It's sucky in the current meta because it has a lot of high level Engi abilities. High level Engi abilities are sucky in the current meta because only two provide weapon-enhancing effects, both of which can be used at Lt or lower for just slightly less effect. The other two abilities that damage opponents either require you to fly into them (and whatever high yield torpedoes they're throwing around) and get in at knifefighting distance or require you to wait 2 minutes to use again for an effect that's hardly noticeable when enemies have millions of hitpoints in both shields and hull.
personally, I don't have an issue with the galaxy being engineering heavy. lets be honest. Starfleet is heavy engineering and science period. even "combat focused" ships like the avenger are engineering heavy. the sci ships too are engineering heavy after science.
the problem I have is that the dreadnought should get a bit more than a 2 slot tac seat and a single slot universal seat. its a pay ship too, granted, that's gonna be the universal. the ship suffers tactically.
as it is, the gal x can be hard to take down because the engineering seats make it easy to have a LOT of hull heals. the scis can handle shield heals.
doesn't the gal x currently gain a 2nd sci console slot in the fleet ver a 5th eng slot for t5u?
no, galaxy x has always had 2 sci console slot, no matter the version
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
we push for a simple solution back then, get the 3nd eng power of the galaxy to be universal.
it didn't work.... for that ship anyway.
so if a revamp of engi power happened it will not be the result of us pushing for it but just cryptic that decided to do so on it own.
in fact we are debating here and then but it is just for the sake of the argument, because nothing that have been propose on these threads about galaxy over the years have been use to enhanced the galaxy, some bo layout have been used to create other ship yes, but not the galaxy.
so no matter how fun it is to show that we are still here, there is almost 0 impact in cryptic office.
until they prove me otherwise.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
that's what I believe. I believe that the "array" is the entire phaser array, which ever size it may be. and that primary feeds are on either end. each end can feed as much as 70% of the amount needed to fire. this slack allows for imbalances in the feeds or outright failure. if failed, you still get reduced power shots at the normal rate, or full power shots at a slower cyclic rate. the largest arrays might have auxiliary feeds, but the redundant feeds consist of the two primary feeds.
until you reach the throughput of the array.
I get a chuckle out of people saying that the large size of that array means something. its large size is to give the greatest possible firing arc of the primary array.
the major possible blind spots the main arrays could have would be at the extreme zero elevation angle of the saucer. both the dorsal and ventral arrays would be firing at maximum depression to fire along that axis. it would probably be standard practice to keep potential targets either just above or just below the same plane as the saucer to allow good firing angles form the main arrays. every other angle on the ship has good redundant coverage by the main arrays and the various secondary arrays all over the star drive.
if anything, the saucer has a somewhat better forward firing arc since the docking plate array is on a steeper angle. the flipside of that is the lower forward arc then has to be covered by the belly array and maybe the two ventral arrays at the extreme stern or either of the lower nacelle arrays.
can we really use kdf ships for comparison though? kdf ships are generally far more tactical in their boff layouts, if they don't outright use a bunch of universal seats.
if anything, the fed are more restrictive on their layouts since they are nearly always skewed towards engineering or scince and then engineering.
arrays are made up of many emitters segments, and every one of them can act independently of the rest of the array, or since they are arranged in a dense linear arrangement, or array, can act in unison.
groups of emitters, not entire arrays. redundant sets of energy feeds, as in there are a ton of connections to power, so many that its redundant. multiple primary trunkS of the EPS system are connected to it. fire control, thermal management, and sensor lines are all networked as well.
blah blah blah
it mentioned two hundred supply conduits to an equal number of prefire chambers, when its talking specifically about the 200 emitter large array on a GCS. each emitter has a pipe leading off from primary trunks running to it, this is were the evidence gets really damning. this further confirming how complete each emitter segment is. each segment has its own supply conduit and prefire chamber, to contribute its own energy to a combined shot. the EPS submaster flow regulator controls power flowing through emitters to set the strength of a shot.
what does that look like in practice?
from here you actually watch the show. you see a moving glow effect on the array, from here there are several factors that could dictate output.
1. how much of the array participates in the moving glow effect indicates how many emitters were involved supplying power to the shot. sometimes you will see the whole array involved, sometimes just a small portion. given that each emitter contributes power with its supply conduit and prefire chamber, this is the most rock solid indicator of a shot's firepower.
2. other possible factors could be the speed at which a glow moves on the array, that could limit how much power any emitter is able to contribute to the shot.
3. a glow might look very small, or look very large like it stretcher across many emitters as it moves along the array, this may also gauge how much power each emitter is contributing.
TL;DR
-arrays are made up of sometimes hundreds of emitters, the longer an array, the more emitters it has
-each emitter segment for all intents and purposes is a complete phaser bank, with its own EPS lead to draw power from
-there is a moving glow effect in the show, indicating power is being gathered from emitters to the point a shot is fired from
-therefor, array length and number of emitters in an array have an additive effect on how strong an array's most powerful shot can be.
-this is how ALL phaser arrays work, regardless of emitter mk
QED
Just eat the pennies
You want to talk about TAC layouts? I think you're quite wrong in your perceptions. Clearly you don't play multiple factions. KDF ships are not more tactical in their BOFF layouts. At T5 upwards:
How many KDF Cruisers have at least LtCdr TAC stations?
T5 Mogh*
T5 Fleet Vor'Cha*
T5 Bortasqu'*
T6 Qib*
T6 Command FDC*
What about the Feds?
T5 Excelsior
T5 Regent
T5 Odyssey
T5 Avenger*
T6 Eclipse*
T6 Guardian
T6 Command FDC*
*= DHC capable
That's 5 KDF vs 7 Fed TAC oriented Cruisers. As you can see, the Feds have way more TAC oriented Cruisers. The KDF's very few TAC oriented Cruisers are all DHC capable.
Let's go into Escorts. Because this is going to be HI-LA-RI-OUS. Escorts pretty much have the requisite TAC heavy BOFF layouts. So the difference really is now down to TAC Console Slots. Oh this is going to be funny...
5 TAC KDF Escorts
T5U Somraw Raptor (not the regular Fleet version; Only T5U)
T5U Fleet Qin Raptor (same as Somraw situation)
T6 Mat'ha Raptor
Zero Birds of Prey with 5 TAC Consoles even at T5U (because I want to throw that out there)
5 TAC Fed Escorts?
T5 Fleet Defiant (5 TAC by default, not necessary for T5U)
T5 Fleet Prometheus (same as Defiant)
T5U Fleet Saber
T5U Fleet Akira
T5 Tempest (packs a whallop still and can take it also)
The KDF didn't get a T5 Escort with 5 TAC Consoles until the Upgrade Tokens late 2014. The Feds on the other hand had 5 TAC Escorts for years with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus while the KDF had none. Then on top of that, they got the Tempest last year, making it 3 5 TAC Escorts before DR while the KDF still had ZERO.
Now, let's go into Science Vessels. How many Science Vessels with LtCdr TAC stations on them?
KDF? Simple.
DSD... And that's it.
Fed Sci Vessels capable of LtCdr TAC? LOLOLOL!
T5 DSD
T5 Vesta/Besta
T5 Nova
T6 Dauntless
So... You tell me with facts, which faction has more TAC oriented ships?
Anyone able to confirm this and any changes on the Galaxy side to match the Negh'Var
Actually the new Negh'Var skins are Holodeck already. I've been flying around in a Mirror Negh'Var with the fangs and the large under-wing cannons that were previously unavailable.
As the Galaxy's model had fewer of these really big and glaring flaws (I think so, at least - I can't seem to find the thread that compared the ingame models to the canon models) they have less of a reason to fix their original design, meaning that you're likely to only see a new look for the Galaxy when more info on the T6 version is released.
Ohhh, she's a thing of beauty, look at that.
That right there definitely leans me HEAVILY towards making my Delta Recruit my Female Klingon Engineer
A Mirrow Negh'Var????? :eek: (if only there was an eye twitch emote)
ARE YE DAFT MAN?????
It would dwarf a Scimitar or a Sheshar!
The Regent's Ship made a Defiant look like a Fighter. Even moreso than the Prototype Jem'Hadar Battleship from Valiant (which is NOT the scale of that that we have available in game). To get the Regent's Negh'Var it would have to be the size of a Voth Citadeal Battleship.
Indeed, and some of the powers have been shifted around to other professions which really rustles my jimmies.
In the spirit of the Intel Power Override Subsystem Safeties, otherwise known as the Engineering power that was stolen, I think that ships should have bonuses for abilities. Specifically if you use an EPT? power then it should remove the power cap for that ability up to 170 like in OSS for that power only. This synergizes with the game canon that states that Cruisers have these huge warp cores that provide massive surpluses of power.
Indeed, the blindspots where the hull of the ship start interfering with the firing arcs is very tight in, really only a fighter would be able to access it, and also of important note, those blindspots are within the shield envelope. A target would have to fly inside of the shield bubble to escape the primary arrays. I think they would also have to fly right into the primary firing arc for the forward photon torpedo launcher.
It must be taken well into account for this argument that the Federation by default has FAR more ships than anyone else.
Wonder what all that works out to as a percentage of total ships.
Probably doesn't change much as the paradigm has been shifted towards servicing the DPS focus.
There's already a playable Mirror Negh'Var in game, but it's not the Regent's. Just a copy of our Prime one with a fancy paint job and the BOff layout rearranged to have some Eng spots converted to Lt. Comm Science spot and a Tac Ensign.
Percentage of ships gets absurd quickly, the DSD represents 50% of the KDF end-game dedicated Sci ships.
a lot of good information, which was actually the point of my question. I don't devote enough money into the game to be able to answer this question first hand.
where I came from, the question was based on me seeing ships with a bunch of universal slots or plenty of tac slots. ships with a different focus then the fed ships I have. I have a relatively lower sample rate than you apparently do.
the more I think about it, the more I think that the blind spot at the zero elevation angle of the saucer, that is to say, directly out from the lateral sensor array, has to a be a definite but very narrow plane were phaser fire coverage becomes an issue. the only thing that could possibly mitigate it is that the saucer arrays are mounted into the sloped sections of the saucer which could be the critical increase in the angle of the array to just above the minimum necessary to fire into the area directly out from the lateral sensor array.
and the possible dead spot for star drive makes me want to go back and check again for an array on the underside of the docking plate.
the forward torpedo tubes coverage is great into the forward arcs, but you never see how good its off-bore capability really is. the only example of off-bore firing is st6 which I think cant count too much since that was a very special situation.
the post nemisis soverign has all angles covered too, but significantly less with its most powerful arrays, and only something as large as a borg cube could be hit by both dorsal and ventral at the same time.
torpedoes are tracking, guided weapons, they shouldn't have firing arcs. if they really wanted to pelt something, they could probably discharge both aft and fore launchers at a target right in front of them.
the weapons on these ships are operated by computers that have subspace fields around their processors, so they can compute faster then what is physically possible. nothing in the sublight realm could dodge them, unless ships broadcast considerable sensor interference or run full on cloaks to counter it.
there most certainly wouldn't be a danger of a ship actually shooting its own torps or something massively stupid like that, i couldn't even, that that was being thrown around.
I agree, the dead zones for the phaser arrays, if they exist, would be quite small. I think there is a high probably that there is enough slope top and bottom on the saucer where the arrays are installed that the arrays are angled enough that they can hit anything in the area along the edge of the saucer that isn't actually blocked by the hull.
originally i had stated that in the show, they tended to come to a halt relative to other ships with that other ship either well above or well below the ship's position. when looking at the main phaser arrays, I think i would support that. it would greatly improve firing solutions form the main arrays, and likely unmask additional arrays.
as for the torpedoes having a firing arc, you misunderstand. of course they are guided weapons, but their highest performance firing solutions would be the ones that are along an expanding cone centered on the bore axis of the launcher(s).
off bore firing is going to be a firing solution that has the torpedo turning outside of the cone to attack targets well off bore from the axis of the torpedo tube. the farther outside of the cone, the more performance you are going to have to make up using the torpedoes own drives instead of the energy imparted by the launcher.
an example would be using torpedoes to attack a target in the ship's broadside. the torpedo ends up having to expend a massive amount of energy in order to turn and still have the sort of speed to make it effective.
st6 was is a case in point. that torp acted more like a prob then a torpedo. not particularly fast, but the bird of prey seemed to only be able to use torps under cloak. a truly on the ball crew might have tried an intercept on that torp. even a proximity hit would have had a good chance at taking down that torp.